There's really no episode of Gargoyles or Young Justice that I don't like, I think, though in the latter case there may be parts of episodes.
B
B
posted @ Sun, Sep 11, 2022 12:08:04 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

I agree with Alex. I think Spectacular Spider-Man is Greg's best series for many reasons. However, Gargoyles is much more near and dear to me and is my favorite of his series. And "Reawakening" is my favorite episode. Always has been.

I enjoyed the first season or two of "Young Justice", but lost interest after that. Tried to watch and get into it, but just wasn't my thing.
Matt
"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings
posted @ Sun, Sep 11, 2022 11:27:17 am EDT from 24.107.111.141

I didn't say anything about drama. Too much time was devoted to characters outmaneuvering each other and explaining how they'd outmaneuvered each other, and that's not Spider-Man-y. I needed a sense of liveliness and spontaneity that just wasn't coming through.
B
posted @ Sun, Sep 11, 2022 8:46:32 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

Spectacular Spider-Man didn't have a lot of humor, though, and what jokes there were didn't penetrate the screen and make me feel them. To be honest, the much-reviled Ultimate Spider-Man felt more Spider-Man-y with its tone and the imagination sequences. But it got on my nerves how the characters would keep acting foolishly and not learn not to do the same thing again.
B
posted @ Sun, Sep 11, 2022 8:39:57 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

I don't know if anyone here watched last night's "Chibi-verse", but they mentioned in it the acting superstition about "Macbeth", which reminded me of my speculations over whether the "Curse of the Scottish Play" would have ever featured in "Gargoyles" - especially given Macbeth and the Weird Sisters' role in it. (The "Weird Macbeth" story would have been well-suited to giving it a mention, I believe.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Sep 11, 2022 8:19:38 am EDT from 70.176.217.135

Honestly I think Spectacular Spider-man is Greg's best series. Super tight plotting, super tight scripts. Funny as hell. The only weak point for me is the beginning of season 2, it just kind of meanders for a bit and I kinda think most of Greg's shows have weird issues with their season 2 beginnings for whatever reason, Leader of the Pack is such a huge letdown after Reawakening. Granted I think Reawakening might be the best episode of Gargoyles, so maybe that isn't fair. I think Greg sort of likes to go back on a status quo-y story instead of jumping back into a big plot for the sake of not overwhelming new viewers but it always feels like kind of a let down after an intense finale. But the back end of season 2 of Spectacular Spider-man is *so* *so* *so* amazing I don't mind really.

@Algae - Oooh, thanks for sharing that. That was really interesting/cool.

@Matthew - Yeah, I guess at the end of the day Ocean Master doesn't really accomplish much of anything. He's kind of a flat villain, though, so I'm not sure what more you could do with him unless you *really* wanna go into his history with Orin. Which, as much as I love the scenes between them, the exposition-heavy nature of their interactions makes that aspect of what's going on kind of underwhelming. I like them because I think the plan is super cool, and I like how they captured Orm & Orin's personalities but I'm not super captivated by their history with one another.

Did you all see that they're remastering the Gargoyles Genesis game?

I'm... extremely confused. I didn't think that was a very good game. But I guess this is a chance to clean it up. Granted, if all they do is add voice over I'll probably buy it. I think if you fix the controls up a bit, these days it's also actually pretty easy to add alternate characters too really. So maybe there'll be optional playable characters and things.
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Sun, Sep 11, 2022 2:22:32 am EDT from 70.48.44.13

There's plenty of humor in Spider-Man. But there's a lot of drama too.
There's a reason why Peter has the whole "Parker luck" bit.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sat, Sep 10, 2022 11:37:31 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

The plotting made the whole thing feel like it didn't have enough of the joy and humor of Spider-Man.
B
B
posted @ Sat, Sep 10, 2022 10:22:22 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

B - The plotting, you mean?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Sep 10, 2022 9:47:36 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

Because it was too serious.
B
B
posted @ Sat, Sep 10, 2022 9:43:57 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

B - [To be honest, while Greg's cerebral, plans-within-plans style of plotting works well in Gargoyles, Young Justice and W.I.T.C.H., I found it a bad fit for Spider-Man.]

Why is that? (One possible answer I thought of was that the other shows were "group-focused", while "The Spectacular Spider-Man" was focused around a single person, if with a good supporting cast, but I don't know if that's the reason for your statement or if it's just a coincidence.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Sep 10, 2022 2:37:31 pm EDT from 163.116.139.117

Ah, Kaldur's arc. I think I'm safe in saying that it was the favorite season 4 arc for most of us. I remember saying that I would be fine with an episode or two just dealing with Atlantis' internal politics; I almost expected an Atlantean civil war at one point.

But as Alex pointed out, this is very much Atlantis' arc with Kaldur as POV character. But one thing I like, and one thing that places this above Zatanna's story, is that he makes the effort to be a more active participant. Zatanna was more along for the ride (though that really wasn't her fault), Kaldur is right up front in the battle against Orm and investigating Arion. Another detail I liked was that this arc took some time to space out its story. Artemis and Zatanna's arcs took place over the course of a couple days; the breathing room here helps step away from the near break-neck speed of things.

I do think that there's a bit of course correction here with Orm, but I still think it could've been done better, which I'll explain (and for clarity's sake, I'll refer to the clone as Orm and the original as Ocean Master). Outside of the comics, Ocean Master wasn't properly faced by the Team, he's supplanted by Black Manta in season 2, and decapitated in season 3. Which is a shame because he'd make for an interesting adversary. He has no magic outside of Neptune's Trident and his followers were few and far between. But he made an interesting addition to the Light because he sat at the king's left hand and had a secret identity, something none of the other Light chairs had. It's a shame the possible intrigue was never capitalized on.

This is what made the scheme so fascinating, using his old identity as a patsy while swooping in as the Atlantean equivalent of Jesus. Not only would he have access to magic older than civilization but the devotion and adoration of nearly all of the seven seas. But in the end, his end is as anticlimactic as his last beheading. Everything undone before the new stakes could really be set in. If he managed to be named ruler or at the very least take control of Poseidonis, it would make a more suspenseful shake up to the status quo than the whole prophecy fulfillment.

Which brings up another thing, I'm not the biggest fan of prophecies in literature. It feels like it restricts the narrative speculation and if you're going for a twist, you're placing yourself against all theories and guesses of the audience, statistics mean someone will eventually guess it.

Honestly, my favorite part of this arc is the character dynamics, the geopolitics of Atlantis, and the delving into Kaldur's past. I often thought that he carried himself so stoically was because his mandatory military service at a young age, but it was because household circumstances forced him at a young age to carry a lot the burdens. His step-father unable to get work and his mother dealing with depression (there's still a lot we don't know about her relationship with Manta). We were introduced to Kaldur as the favored apprentice to Orin, but it's important to remember that he didn't start that way. He's held onto the belief that he's had to shoulder more responsibilities than anyone else (brings his therapy session with Black Canary in a new light) for so long that when he can't be strong anymore, he breaks.

But those are the moments when friends and loved ones are needed most. To help us up when we can't be strong.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sat, Sep 10, 2022 1:53:05 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

To be honest, while Greg's cerebral, plans-within-plans style of plotting works well in Gargoyles, Young Justice and W.I.T.C.H., I found it a bad fit for Spider-Man.
B
B
posted @ Fri, Sep 9, 2022 11:05:31 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Well now that we're revisiting the Kaldur arc, I'd really like to plug this great analysis vid I found on YT a while back...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMtwRO_YUL0
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Fri, Sep 9, 2022 3:29:41 pm EDT from 84.247.48.98

The scenes with the children and Orm are clearly laying ground work and/or show casing the league and team's civilian families.

On that note...

Arc 4 review!

So I LOVE this arc. I love the Atlantean lore, I love the storytelling, I love the characterization and I love the way time is used.

I've always loved this version of Kaldur and Atlantis. I like it so much that when I rewatched Justice League (and Unlimited) this year, I liked their version of Atlantis & Aquaman so much solely because of how well presented they were in *this* show. Maybe that sounds weird, but it's true.

So this story to me, more than anything despite being "Kaldur's arc" is really a story about Atlantis. Kaldur is the pivitol character, the POV character, the hero who (kind of) saves the day, but it's really a story about the fate of Atlantis, and who should rule it. It's also, forgive me for putting it this way, but it "makes up for" the sort off-handed way Ocean Master got dealt with in season 3. In a really cool way. It wasn't really necessary, but I like it.

I love the way time is used in this arc. The fact that we start before the start point of arc 3, but then we cut to a few weeks later halfway through this arc is really cool. I also really love the mystery of the Return of Ocean Master. I cannot remember what I thought at the time, I don't know if I put much thought into it, and really only a clone is what makes sense. Well, I guess there're other things that make sense, especially since the Light transplanted the real Orm's brain into a new cloned body. So I suppose the sky's the limit on what the light is capable of.

I suppose one could think it a cheat, a way to bring back a character. But firstly, Orm's death wasn't like a super impactful thing that I feel like it undermines some important emotional moment. I think it only makes the Light seem more devious, that not only would they have their enforcer behead Orm, but they'd keep his brain around to use later for their own ends. So I don't think it's a cheat.

I really do like the way the show will find new ways to use old concepts. So the Light making new clones to develop even more insidious plans than it did before.

The Orm clone was a lot of fun too, and I really liked all the scenes between him and Orin. In fact, I LOVED all the Orin scenes in this arc in general. Orin sort of working out all of his issues with his brother, through his clone and giving clone-Orm a chance to have a different fate. I also like the way the Arion stuff from arc 3 (which seemed interesting but a bit superfluous at the time) and really uses it well here. The scene with the Tiara could be seen as a bit of a cliche, ala the Nazis opening the arc of the covenant, or really any story where an arrogant mortal man abuses the power of god, but it's such a triumphant moment I really don't care.

David Kaye does a really good job making Arion and Vandall sound like different people. I really get a strong sense of who Arion was in general.

The only REAL complaint I have about the arc is the lack of Mera. And that's not because I love Mera and think she needs to be more important, but just because the storytelling and the plot are really built around Mera. And in the end while making her Queen is both logical (i.e. it makes both her father and her husband happy) and is narratively satisfying with the prophecy angle, to a degree I wish we got more of a sense of what *she* thinks is going on, but she's really just a mouth piece for a prophecy, which I find less satisfying than I would like. It didn't hurt the story or the storytelling, and certainly Mera comes across as competent and heroic through out the story; but that's my minor quibble for the episode. I would have liked to have seen more of her perspective.

Kaldur's arc, which is something I think a lot of people kind of took umbrage with; I'm honestly totally fine with. Not wowed by it, but it's fine. It's honestly not really that important to the story because ultimately as I said, it's a story about *Atlantis*. And I've never really understood what it would add for Kaldur to have some lesson, or some theme, or have some transformation. Kaldur's whole thing is that he's *steady*. He's reliable, he's a good leader, he's a good mentor, he approaches problems and situations logically. By the end of this story, he's just worn out, he's just been working too hard and everyone is telling him to take it easy.

It's fine. I think "he's just *too stoic and capable*" is kind of a weird conflict to give a character because I think it's a tough thing to make relatable or to provide some dramatic tension. Kaldur really isn't showing any signs of fraying until the story's over, when he has his break down. And that's tragic and heartbreaking, but it comes a bit late in the arc to be emotionally effective I think. Again, I don't think this detracts from the story, but it feels like the sort of thing that maybe would have been more dramatically effective at the midpoint of the story. I'm not sure. I think it might have worked better, but I also don't think it's something Kaldur needs.

I think it's totally fine that Kaldur is just consistent and reliable. Seeing a bit of humanity and weakness at the end was fine too. I really don't see the problem with any of this. Like yeah, if I was breaking the story down using Saving the Cat or something I might say it's a weak arc for your main character, but I've really never bought into the idea that the character who transforms or changes or goes through the mud has to be your *main* character necessarily. It's okay for your lead to be steady, and for *another* character to go through that dramatic transition.

In this case I think it's Atlantis at large, and to an extent Orin/Arthur who really go through that transition. And it's super effective, as I mentioned above I *love* all the Orin scenes in this arc. I love the bit where the Sharks are circling like his muscle. I loved seeing Orin as a detective. It's all just really, really cool.

I really liked the epilogue with Vandal and Dr. Fate too. This is a sort of story archetype I'm seeing more and more (at least it was a big part of Toy Story 4 of all things --...and Mad Men). Where a male character who is used to being the decider discovers that things are kind of moving on from him, that the world maybe doesn't need him to take risks and make big decisions for it. I like it a lot, and I think it's very well placed here. And very thematic too, with Orin's arc in the story. Even Kaldur's arc really.

I think that's everything, I usually forget something I wanted to mention but I think that's everything.
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Fri, Sep 9, 2022 6:06:31 am EDT from 70.48.44.13

Ironically despite being born in 82, OoT's Gorons came before I saw The A-B-Cs of D-O-O-M. Before I seen more of either 80s shows, I thought he might have been the Kingpin given some superpowers.

Only caught both in the first place cause of old fashion VHS. Starting with The X-Men Adventure from Amazing Friends from a tape I bought from K Mart.

Before Netflix and later plus Disney Plus, rental or purchased tapes and other sources were how I viewed the Solo Series. Early few I caught were in the following order:

- Return of the Green Goblin (with a set of episodes from the 60s)

- Dr. Doom Master of the World (along with the Spider-Woman episode "Games of Doom"*)

- When Magneto Speaks, People Listen (The Fantastic Four 70s episode "The Menace of Magneto".)

- The Incredible Shrinking Spider-Man (With the 60s series episode "The Origin of Spider-Man".)

- The Vulture Has Landed (With some 60s episodes)

- Bubble, Bubble, Oil and Trouble (Marvel Matinee tape with Pryde of the X-Men and the 70s F4 episode "The Frightful Four".*)

- Curiosity Killed the Spider-Man (First non-comic appearance of the Black Cat)

- Arsenic and Aunt May

After that, just stumbled on the rest of the episodes later on.


Additionally, I never even heard of Jem and the Holograms or She-Ra until the internet in the late 2000s.

*Which oddly enough had an original villain rather than the Lord of Latveria)

**The famous one where Magneto was beaten with a wooden gun. Succeeded only by the arcade dialogue "Welcome to die" and "I am Magneto, Master of Magnet, Ha, Ha, Ha.".

Oh and through dialogue from Professor X basically stating "Sorry X-Men, but our Magneto is in another castle".

***Which despite this and the episode "Medusa and The Inhumans" making the character an enemy, the team watch Lockjaw for her and the royal family despite the lack of a transitional episode.
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Sep 9, 2022 12:11:30 am EDT from 71.84.183.196

Of course, any mention of Goron and the thing that's going to come to mind is that race from Legend of Zelda.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Sep 8, 2022 11:50:25 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

I was wondering if TSSM would have held up without any sign of Goron. The character never given a real introduction and made exclusively for the 80s Solo Series, yet is still the best.

But in all seriousness, some tidbits Phelous didn't bring up (For those who prior to now didn't see any aspect of the show).

- He is part of the shows opening theme. An honor given to Gadgeteer from The Incredible Shrinking Spider-Man. Kind of expecting Phelous might go for that episode next if he does another vid on the series.
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Sep 8, 2022 11:21:53 pm EDT from 71.84.183.196

ANTIYONDER - You might want to revise that last post; for example, the first sentence ends abruptly.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Sep 8, 2022 8:07:37 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

I've still been enjoying Young Justice regardless, but I'm wondering if the remainder of TSSM.

You can point out solid continuity, writing and characterization, but unless Weisman had planned to use Goron (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuHSYy6zuEo), not sure if the series would have retained appealXD.
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Sep 8, 2022 3:36:49 pm EDT from 71.84.183.196

One thing I admire about Young Justice is that it embraces the whole of the DC universe. Past, present, and future. In fact it takes advantage of its notion of legacy more than any other adaptation I've seen.
Possibly the best it ever will be.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Sep 8, 2022 2:10:47 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

Where Greg and Brandon are concerned, what ISN'T foreshadowing?
Algae
'Nuff said
posted @ Wed, Sep 7, 2022 4:44:21 pm EDT from 185.252.222.35

That's not really foreshadowing - foreshadowing is like an early clue, something you might not notice on a first watch. But for ten years YJ has been very clear it wants time to pass and generations to cycle through, and to adapt as much of the DC canon as possible. Having the kids show up is in keeping with that. Given enough time we will probably see those kids grow up, and join or start their own hero teams. But there's probably nothing specific being hinted at there beyond 'a lot of the couples have had kids and most of those kids have powers.'
Karrin Blue
posted @ Wed, Sep 7, 2022 10:09:57 am EDT from 72.10.127.194

Matthew> Happy Birthday! Don't feel bad, you're a year and eight months younger than I am. And I don't feel old at all. The truth is, they tell you that you're supposed to figure everything out in your twenties and turning thirty is having one foot in the grave, but it's just the beginning of adulthood. Twenties are an extension of your teens.
B
B
posted @ Wed, Sep 7, 2022 9:51:33 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

https://youtu.be/dzK2LanW_4g
Is that the foreshadowing for the next generation of superheroes or something in the future?
[SPOILER]
John Diggle Jr
Spartan
posted @ Wed, Sep 7, 2022 8:13:58 am EDT from 192.190.140.23

Happy Birthday!
Agatha - [ampva300 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Sep 6, 2022 11:56:22 pm EDT from 185.156.46.185

Matthew> Happy Birthday. And no complainy.

I'm 40 therefore you should be grateful you have some 30s leftXD.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Sep 6, 2022 8:58:36 pm EDT from 107.77.205.185

Thanks for the birthday wishes! Can't say I'm a fan of the inevitable passage of time though.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Sep 6, 2022 8:37:57 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Generation Justice (Young Justice tv spinoff)
It set in 8 years in the future after the defeat of Darkseid. It about Dick Grayson,Artemis Beast Boy,Blue Beetle, and Static who are now adults and fully experienced superheroes training a group of Young heroes to stop a international terrorist organization of supervillains from dismantling governments,law enforcement agencies, and the league in the name of freedom.
The main team roster are Children of the Justice League such as sons of Superman and Batman, daughters of black lightning,son of Aquaman, Red Arrow's daughter, and the tornado twins.
This pitch idea has the combined elements of Batman Beyond,Degrassi:the Next Generation ,Boruto,Teen Titans Academy, Kingdom Come, and Cobra Kai.
H.R. Wells
H.R. Randolf
posted @ Mon, Sep 5, 2022 11:49:01 pm EDT from 192.190.140.23

Happy birthday, Matthew!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Sep 5, 2022 8:15:22 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

Fifth, happy birthday, and happy Labor Day!
Karrin Blue
posted @ Mon, Sep 5, 2022 7:05:10 pm EDT from 68.9.88.39

Turning thirty FOUR this week.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Sep 5, 2022 4:40:37 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Third.
Matt
"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings
posted @ Mon, Sep 5, 2022 10:51:21 am EDT from 24.107.111.141

Second! And I second that sentiment!
B
B
posted @ Mon, Sep 5, 2022 9:47:39 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

First. And happy Labor Day to the room!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Sep 5, 2022 9:08:33 am EDT from 70.176.217.135