A Station Eight Fan Web Site


The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending January 22, 2023

Index : Hide Images

Young Justice has had four seasons with comics covering season 1, between 1 & 2, 2 & 3, and post-4. We're in the midst of new canon Gargoyles comics and merchandise, and both with the support and enthusiasm most of us have dared not dream. Even The Spectacular Spider-Man has a steady streaming home on Disney+. Only one of the big shows GW has worked on that doesn't having a streaming home is W.I.T.C.H., right?

I know no one in here is being intentionally negative, but come on, this 'curse' stuff isn't even remotely accurate anymore.

Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

Todd Jensen> I reversed course on the second or third line. Look forward to reading it when I'm finished the episode, which I'm about halfway through. Just had dinner and the penultimate episode of River (the PBS miniseries) with my folks.

B - Sorry about that. I hope I didn't spoil too much.

"Amphibia" got a full three seasons, of course, so it doesn't match the "Weisman curse" as well as "The Owl House" does.

Todd Jensen

Thanks a lot for the great review!
HVAC Technician

Antiyonder> Haven't watched the vid yet but I just gave it a like right now so I won't forget to give it one later. It would be great if Dynamite could continue the series.

B> You're welcome and...

Todd Jensen> Well and I'll post a reminder once you are caught up, but to express hope as:

- Dana still showed interest in doing more if permitted.

- Gargoyles and Darkwing Duck have and getting a second chance current.

Just when every you come across Owl House videos officially from Disney Channel and Disney Television Animation, one thing I suggest in case if either of you think to is to give such vids and you know the full episodes given a Like.

On top of any legit binges when possible. I like to think the Owl Family could have a Dynamite future. And yep, cringey pun is intentional.


Antiyonder> Thank you very much for the Youtube link and letting us know it's up!

Craig> I agree. That's basically my job as a proofreader, except for prose.

Todd Jensen> Could you please put the introductory statement of what the spoiler is a spoiler for outside the spoiler text at the beginning? I nearly got spoiled for "For the Future", which I haven't seen yet (as opposed to Gargoyles #2, which I've read), because I highlighted the comment and started reading.


Todd Jensen>

[SPOILER] Just a joke that I will ruin by explaining. You know, some people honestly believed Greg was cursed cause each show ended without him helming a third season or more.

So since I had Owl House on the brain, I made a joke about how that would probably hold true in that fictional world. [/SPOILER]


ANTIYONDER -[SPOILER] I don't get your remark about Greg Weisman in connection to "Amphibia" and "The Owl House". Could you explain it, please? [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen

Todd Jensen> [SPOILER]

Covering for numerous reasons.

1. Just for fun though as Owl House is indeed canon with Amphibia and Gravity Falls, I bet the Greg Weisman of that universe did fall under some entity's curse.

2. Even knowing that Belos did say shut up, sound partially to me like he said shit.XD. I mean people thought Elisa said damn within Awakening. Phelous joked/thought that Koopa often called Mario and company jerk offs.

3. So going to the time paradox I S2.

Hard to say how much of it was planned, but what's your take?

Possibly something Dana planned a good chunk in advance at least during Follies at the Coven Day Parade.

I ask as on the Tropes forum some have asked even following Hollow Mind why the Owl Family haven't been targeted more often by Belos. Incompetence and or arrogance being the likely thing.

And Dana might have implemented the paradox and Belos putting the pieces together to justify why he mostly left Luz alone until after he was sure "they met".

Or planned it always to aid in Luz's guilt trip. Or both. [/SPOILER]


I'm sorry to hear about the continued difficulties with the digital version; conspiracy theorists are bound to have a field day with these.

[SPOILER] A few thoughts on "For the Future".

1. Despite just how grimly serious Belos/Philip is, there's something comical about his shouting to the ghost of his brother (and apparently of all the earlier Grimwalkers) "Oh, shut up."

2. Kikimora being the true identity of Boscha's "evil counsellor" was a big surprise, though it made sense.

3. Belos himself is assuming the "evil counsellor" role effectively - leading to the classic "eavesdropper stopped listening too early" (evocative of Demona doing the same in "City of Stone Part Four".

4. Leading to - I liked how the show's handling the Collector. Terrifying and devastating, yes, but with the recognition that underneath, he's a lonely little boy, the last of his kind - and that King's recognizing it and wants to solve the problem by helping him. I look forward to seeing how it plays out in the final episode. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Ed> What annoys me most is that Greg was apparently told that the update is "already available," but it clearly isn't. Whoever told him that shouldn't have said it if it wasn't true because now he's put in an unfair position of unwittingly telling his fan community something that isn't true. Not that any of us blames him, but it's a crummy thing to misinform your lead writer/creator.

And also, while I understand that mistakes happen and that there are a lot of moving pieces to publishing comics these days, it doesn't seem like an unfair expectation that there just be one designated person who reads the thing once just before it goes out, who has knowledge of exactly how it should look. In fact, that just seems like basic common sense. I was a little more forgiving of these errors in the SLG days because it was earlier times in digital comic production, and they were a smaller operation. But in 2023, it's crazy that the wrinkles haven't been worked out.

All of that being said, I'm sorry for the problems you're having with availability in the UK, which is a whole different type of frustrating and baffling.


1. Todd Jensen, B> TOH- For the Future is official on YT by Disney Channel:


2. Besides shared character aspects and serious tones, another thing fitting with ATLA and TOH being compared?

They both question the Chosen One trope.

Such a thing doesn't necessarily have to be excised or deconstructed all the time. But in a serious narrative that does try to have consequences and drama, it is sloppy to not question if such pressure on a kid is irresponsible.

Such as Nimh 2 where the villain is arguably such cause his brother being catered to gave such insecurities.

Yeah, I think Doug Walker was even the first to praise Avatar the Last Airbender for that reason oddly.

Mainly through Gyatso's objection to Aang being told prematurely even with the circumstances being rare. And yeah another nice wrinkle is how the common approach is letting the Chosen actually mature and enjoy their childhood.

It does make me wonder as I never saw the rest of the movies or read the rest of the books. Did Harry Potter play the CO straight to the end? Or did Rowling at least recognize and show such kind of worship being harmful?


Craig: Perhaps it has been taken down to patch then. To be honest, as frustrating as it is logging on every day and seeing it's still not there, and as irritating as it is that ComiXology is (or was) the only game in town to buy the book digitally, there are clearly some kinks in the system with the unexpected date slippages and the lettering flub and I don't have a problem with occasional problems cropping up. It's unfortunate but, hey, it happens. I'm sure everyone's doing the best they can.

What really throws me and worries me though is the deletion of #1 (and indeed the pre-order of #3) from the UK store. I can't imagine any reason for anybody involved to want not to sell a comic that's been out for over a month and that plenty of people ALREADY own. It's... bizarre.


Ed> Digital/Kindle/Comixology copy of Gargoyles #2 is still unavailable on Amazon US, and my previously purchased version is still missing the dialogue on that page without any correction offered. Very frustrating. Obviously Greg offered the correction on twitter, thankfully, but it's annoying that the corporations involved (Disney, Dynamite, Comixology, Amazon) haven't made the effort seemingly.

Oh yes, I forgot that Batman teaming up with Katana and Metamorpho is a nod to Batman and the Outsiders. Both members were part of the team.

Another thing is that Fred Tatasciore has been type cast as big hulking monsters like the Hulk or Solomon Grundy that you forget his versatility. Playing Deathstroke and Metamorpho is a good example of this.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Jurgan> In the comics, Metamorpho (Rex Mason) got the power to turn into any element from the Orb of Ra after being hired to steal it by the deceptive Simon Stagg. He featured in the computer-animated cartoon Beware the Batman, in which Katana was a major character as well. He also made appearances in the Justice League cartoon, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, DC Super Hero Girls and the movie Justice League: The New Frontier. He briefly had a distaff counterpart called Element Girl (Urania Blackwell), who met Death in the Sandman issue "Façades".

So no sign of any digital Dynamite Gargoyles books back on sale on Amazon UK (and strangely, none of the books are available on Dynamite's digital comics site so Amazon is the only game in town). However, now #2 has been taken off the US store as well. I'd guess this is to do with correcting the misprint but then again it sounded below (though I've only very lightly skimmed the room this week) that it had already been corrected?

Of course, the UK 'Gargoyles' disappearance started with just one of them being taken down as well and tenth rest followed soon after...

So now I have to wonder. Perhaps this is a "Neverending Story" deal where The Nothing grows and grows... Perhaps in a few months, all that remains of the internet will be a history of paraffin wax and an eBay page selling bongos... Perhaps people will even vanish right in the middle of


Thanks, B. A lot of us are mythology fans and it's safe to say that Gargoyles had a hand in stoking that interest.

Jurgan> Discounting those brief bits of action like Batman saving the Team from Clayface or when the League was controlled by Starro. The first time Batman took direct action in the show was when he was part of the joint strike team against Black Manta (Kaldur) on Malina Island.

Not to give anything away, but your frustrations with how slow the Tara arc is going will be addressed soon enough.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

This is one time I kind of wish we had a threaded message board instead of our old-fashioned comment room. Multiple different conversations are going on at once. So far, we seem to be handling it all right.

Young Justice 3x10: Exceptional Human Beings

I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time we've seen Batman take direct action in the series. While we can assume he's been fighting in the background, he's mostly been portrayed as a coach. So we got to see him duel with Bane, DC's most overrated villain. Meanwhile you had Katana ("she's got my back!") fighting Shiva and Metamorpho (who?) fighting Deathstroke. Slade has moved up in the world, and Fred Tatsciore does a good job, but he's no Ron Perlman. Who is, right?

The Team's plot was not as interesting, sadly. This seems like the fifth time we've seen a plot that was basically:

Brion: We should go find my sister!
Dick: You're not ready, we need to train more.

This arc needs to advance soon, it's getting really dull. Next episode we see the kids enter high school, hopefully that'll be fun.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

B> True and while Amphibia's finale was still good for me agreed.

Even outside the dark stuff, realism only works if there is more conviction to it.

Heck that's another gripe I have when some pairings are objected to by writer or audience. Aang survives against a man who's powers are enhanced and has more experience, plus conviction to killing, but hooking up and staying with his first crush is what violates the credibility.


Gargoyles: Here in Manhattan #2: [SPOILER] The voiceover was much better in this issue than the first because it didn't pause the action (although Angela didn't seem particularly connected to the events of this specific issue). Nice to see Angela's dreams.

So Gnash is one of *those* older siblings. The kind that get huffy about everyone making a fuss over the baby (at least at first).

Nice to see that Katana isn't portrayed as naive and is well aware of her hubby's penchant for questionable humor. Greg described her and Brooklyn's relationship as a "Sam and Diane", so it would be nice to see as much of that as possible in these comics.

Surprised Brooklyn and Katana didn't also want to see the birth.

It was a very pleasant surprise to see Mary. Brooklyn would have told the others about Mary and Finella after he got back unless there were a "preservation of the timeline" reason not to. Given that the missing dialogue has Mary refer to herself as having been a midwife for a thousand years casually in front of Elisa, it would appear the Clan are aware who she is (assuming Mary doesn't intend Elisa to think it's a joke). So I guess that was her job in medieval Scotland, too. And she's seen enough modern pop culture to know what a mad scientist is supposed to look like. She *has* been there since somewhere between 1975 and 1980. Despite appearances, she was only 28 in "Awakening" and 31 in "Phoenix", so if it was 1975 exactly, she'd be 53 now in 1997. Nice seeing her swat away Brentwood. Mary wasn't someone significant to the gargoyles before they were turned to stone, but as Tom's mother she's basically Angela's adoptive grandmother. I assume she and Angela have met now and that she knows all about Tom.

As for Tony Dracon acting more "fully fleshed", as was already pointed out, *all* the previous times we've seen him he was in a situation that called for bravado; we've never had reason to see deeper than that. Not to mention whatever sobering effect jail may have. Interesting to see that he has a sister who hasn't been hinted at before. I'll also assume they're twins, because it makes the theme naming more likely. From what little we've seen of her she gives the impression of being the most intelligent of the bunch. This uncle Dino sounds like a real terror, and as I said before, I hope he becomes a dinosaur mutate.

I hope there's a flashback sometime to whatever ceremony Maggie and Talon held, because I'd like to see it.

Jurgan> Yes, I also like how the Young Justice characters age and time passes without the dilation effect you see in the comics. Clark and Lois's son Jonathan, aka Jon-El, is from the comics, where he's gotten as far as early teenagerhood and used the name Superboy (after Conner/Kon-El or instead of, depending on which continuity reboot we're talking about). He was split into twins Jonathan and Jordan (named for Jor-El) on the live-action show "Superman & Lois" on The CW. Granny Goodness is one of DC's more disturbing yet somewhat entertaining villains. I still remember Ed Asner setting the Furies on Supergirl while calling her a "ninny noodle".

Antiyonder: I agree, The Owl House has discussed the usual "protagonist goes home forever and keeps nothing of the other world but the lessons she learned there" scenario often enough that I'd be unpleasantly surprised and disappointed if they went that route. The ending of Amphibia didn't come off very believably. They were trying to impart a moral, but they should've abandoned that plan because after the way the story had developed up to that point, the moral didn't feel like what would actually happen. People who've been through that kind of thing together do not just grow apart like normal school kids; I even doubt Marcy's parents would still blithely go ahead with the move.

Matthew> Points for mentioning the Hecatoncheires! Mythology has been an interest of mine from an early age. That and genetics. I once made a family tree of the Greek gods for homeroom. You know, all those heroes were distantly related to the monsters they slew.

Greg Weisman> The "incredibly frustrating" reminds me of something Shagon said.


Todd Jensen> Not the safest way to describe it in her presence, but fits in the sense that as others point out, she tends to be more human than caring to admit.

If she ever was to finally recognize her faults well past 2198, I wonder if she would also develop the self-awareness of how human she became even before Puck's blessing.XD


For lack of a better term, of course. It's kinda hard to come up with a species-free term for humanity that says the same thing.

And yeah it works in "Out of the Past" for dramatic reasons.

Weirdly in looking up Olivia Hussey (the actress who played Talia in Batman Beyond), she was the actress suing paramount over the nude scene in Romeo and Juliet.

Alex (FKA Aldrius)

Oh, and I'm not sure "humanity" is the right word to use for Demona (and it'd certainly be hazardous to your health to use that word in connection with her in her presence!).
Todd Jensen

ALDRIUS - Yes, that was one of my favorite features of "Possession" as well. (There was one occasion in television animation where I did pardon the "mind-switched person speaking in another voice", the episode in "Batman Beyond" featuring Talia who turned out to be a host for Ra's al-Ghul. No Ra's al-Ghul episode in that continuity could be complete without a performance from the late David Warner.)

"Legion" gave us a great taste of that feature, though I didn't fully realize it until I listened to the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on it; just listen to the way Michael Dorn varied his delivery according to whichever member of the ColdTrio was dominant. (The podcast ended with a great sound-clip demonstrating that.)

Todd Jensen

[SPOILER] OH that missing dialogue makes that bit a lot more sensible. Also kinda answers my question about Mary. [/SPOILER]

Rewatched "The Reckoning" and "Possession" the other night. Such solid episodes. The Reckoning does so much heavy lifting to showcase what little humanity Demona has left.

Love David's performance as Puck in particular. It's so fun. And so glad they went the route where no one's voice changes.


Thank you, Landon, we didn't have a link to the corrected page here yet.

Thanks for sharing that story, B. It was very sweet.
Todd Jensen

Well providing the physical copy is due the end of the month, I'll be getting it then as I'm down to 18 dollars. Getting it with new issue of Sonic the Hedgehog.

And the first new comic with Darkwing Duck!.

Greg Weisman> I would think a man under Norman Osborn's employee would take to heart "Don't you dare apologize. I never do.".

Besides, you survived the accusation of being the Green Goblin.


So sorry if I spoiled anyone with my last post. I was swept up in Greg's correction and responding to FTMB. Ack.

The missing dialogue, as well as the various errors that occurred in the SLG comic (especially #6), make me think that in some ways things were simpler in the pre-digital age when word balloons were simply drawn onto the original artwork. Less margin for error with that system.


Sorry, I just did a quick scan for links and missed Greg's post. We love you Greg!
Landon - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Gargoyles #2 has a misprint that led to missing dialog. Greg has posted the full page: [SPOILER] https://twitter.com/Greg_Weisman/status/1616615280838598657 [/SPOILER]
Landon - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I'd like to share this touching personal story about Gargoyles that someone else (username Martonimos) posted on the r/gargoyles reddit:

"Almost 15 years ago, when I was in undergraduate school, I was helping some friends with their math homework. I was walking with one of them to the student lounge, and she said she needed to stop by her room to get something. She brought me in, and as she retrieved her stuff, I took a look around—and spotted the first few issues of SLG’s Gargoyles comic sitting next to the bed.

I hadn’t thought about Gargoyles in years, yet memories of watching the Awakening VHS movie with my brother came flooding back. I picked up the top issue of the stack, and asked if it was from the same show. She replied that it was, and added—somewhat sheepishly—that it had been her favorite show as a child.

In the months that followed, we’d go out to our local comic shop to pick up the latest issues of both Gargoyles and Bad Guys, and read them together in her room before working on homework. Half a year after I spotted those comics, I gave her a Valentine’s day gift for the first time: the 10th anniversary box set of season 1.

Five years after that, we were married.

And last week, our copy of Dynamite’s Gargoyles #1 arrived in the mail. We opened it, lay on the bed to read it, and for a few minutes, we were 18 again.

Gargoyles isn’t the only thing that brought us together, to be clear; but it was one of the first things we had in common. Goliath and his clan were there at the beginning of our relationship, and to know they’re still around and having new adventures today… that’s something special."


Yes, this is a good reminder that we try to use spoiler tags until a week after the physical release. Give some buffer time so people don't end up spoiled.

Jurgan> Lady Shiva makes a great first impression this episode and the nuclear option shows why the Light might be the smartest written incarnation of the Legion of Doom/Injustice League/Secret Society of Supervillains.

As for Gretchen Goode and G. Gordon, I'd it's safe to say that the court of Darkseid is quite literally cutthroat. So even if they're on the same side, getting insults in and trying to undercut the other is just another day for those two.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Can we please use spoiler tags about the new issue? I'm waiting for a physical copy to read it.

Young Justice 3x09: Home Fires

This one had a good balance of action and character. Lobo ("The Main Man") made a good threat, though his fight was a bit of a drag. Just a lot of guys hitting him until Forager faked his death to get him to leave. Clever trick on Forager's part, and nice to see the new team in action together with all their different powers. The Light had a classic "Xanatos Tag," revealing that the attack on Forager was just a test to see exactly who was on the new team.

The super-nursery is cute. Lois and Clark apparently have a son named Jonathan? That's pretty surprising, but I like it. I'm not fond of the way mainstream comics tend to preserve the status quo at all cost, so I like that the characters age and grow. And I like that Lady Shiva and The Light do not allow the "nuclear option" to be used on the heroes- they're smart enough not to bring down the full wrath of their foes on them.

Granny Goodness is here. I love that twisted old creep, and she is a full-fledged member of The Light. Her scene with Godfrey is puzzling; he's still demagoguing as a mix of Alex Jones and J. Jonah Jameson, while she is presenting as a friendly businessman and associate of Bruce Wayne. Yet they're both allies of Darkseid, so this whole thing must be kayfabe. We'll have to see where it goes.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

thanks Craig. that's the panel i figured it was for what its worth...think i got the general idea regardless, fwiw.

FTBM> Pretty sure it’s the page where Elisa regains consciousness and then transitions into the flashback. It’s a little jarring as presented with no dialogue balloons. And yeah, I haven’t seen any corrections offered on my Amazon edition yet.

so question...what panel was this lack of dialogue in? b/c i got the kindle edition at midnight and just rechecked it and see no differences.

MATTHEW - I hope it gets corrected for the trade paperback version as well (like issue #6 from the Slave Labor Graphics comics).

Listened to the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on "City of Stone Part One" this evening. Enjoyable as ever, with some great discussion on such matters as the Weird Sisters and their mythical background, the use of the historical Macbeth, Demona's big "What have I done - what have they done to you?" moment, etc. While almost everything in it has already appeared in "Ask Greg", it's still really worth listening to. I'm looking forward to the other three parts.

Todd Jensen

Man, that's a shame. Here's hoping this is corrected for the trade.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Greg> Thanks for the update. The page definitely felt a little weird, but as you say, the visuals told the story. The digital issue #2 seems to have disappeared entirely from Amazon (I can still access my purchased copy through a little creative finagling, but it’s not updated with the dialogue).

So... there is indeed an entire page's worth of dialogue/lettering/word balloons missing (accidentally dropped) from issue #2 of GARGOYLES.

I'm told that if you purchased the book electronically, you can already get a free update that corrects the problem.

Printed books will not be corrected, unfortunately. It's just too late.

Dynamite is also reviewing their systems to make certain we avoid this EVER happening again in the future.

Obviously, this is incredibly frustrating to me. INCREDIBLY. FRUSTRATING. But spilled milk under the bridge. I don't think any of the missing dialogue is essential or deathless. It was mostly functional, and the art largely carries things forward on its own. I don't mean to make excuses. It's a mistake, and the book does NOT read right. But as mistakes go, it's not catastrophic or even all that harmful to one's overall understanding of the story in the issue.

Still, this kinda thing drives me and editor Nate Cosby nuts. Neither of us were responsible, but on behalf of Dynamite, we apologize for the error.

Greg Weisman

First few episodes of The Legend of Vox Machina dropped today, and there are some familiar actors already showing up. Cree Summer plays one of the lead villains, Alanna Ubach showed up for one episode and Troy Baker had a brief but memorable cameo in one episode.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Yeah, Hunting Palisman is strongly a factor in why I don't think Luz's story will end on a bittersweet/sad note like many narratives with a character or characters ending up in another world.

Digimon Adventure for example, the kids just focus on stopping the big bad(s) and getting home. The issue of permanently leaving their Digimon partners behind doesn't become a concern till the last episode when it is clear they can't go back and forth freely.

Heck, going with the more recently Amphibia, we don't learn the dangers of regularly using the Calamity Box until the last few episodes of the final season.

In True Colors, Anne is even certain that her frog family could visit her on Earth regularly.

In The Owl House, even prior to losing a reliable means of traveling between worlds, there was still fear of having to say goodbye presented like in Really Small Problems (King figuring Luz wouldn't come back after summer is over) or Luz fearing that her mom won't accept the life she made in the Isles.

Hunting Palisman goes heavy into that by acknowledging said cliche that it doesn't seem like it would really work to end Luz having to leave the Boiling Isles.


The "Vows" podcast is definitely a good one, and Nate Crosby is really a fun presence. "Vows" was the only episode of Gargoyles I missed on its initial airing, because my neighborhood had a brownout (no electricity) (kids today with their streaming any time day or night don't know how good they have it!). I had a friend at school with whom I'd discuss the newest Gargoyles every day on the playground (I was eleven), and when he told me what I'd missed, I thought he was messing with me because it sounded like the craziest episode and there's no way all of that happened in one half hour! I actually got really mad at him for lying to me. Imagine my chagrin when I began to realize that he'd been telling the truth. What a wild episode.

It's because of this that I can also say with confidence that the ending still wasn't fixed for the second airing, at least not in the NYC (WPIX) market. Somewhere in my parents' attic is my VHS copy of the second airing with the wrong (albeit nicer looking) ending. I remember thinking that it was either a fantasy of Goliath's, or some weird fanciful/wistful alternate reality/"what if" cutaway to what might have been. And I do think it works fine on that level, especially with Carl Johnson's really cool/eerie musical cue. As a kid, I didn't think it was literally happening, but thought it was a reminder of what Goliath was missing out on and the loss that he felt. But I do also get why Greg hates it.


Just listened to the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on "Vows". It's a long one - almost two hours - but worth it with the behind-the-scenes information on the episode, including the wrong ending mix-up (at least the right ending's up on YouTube). While a lot of the material I'd already heard before, there was a neat new bit about just how the Illuminati came to appear in this episode. Nate Crosby (if I got the name right) from Dynamite Comics was there as well, with some discussion of the comic - and he's a really big Bronx fan (who must have been disappointed that Bronx only made the cover of the first issue but not the pages inside!).
Todd Jensen

Resisted reading any of your thoughts on #2 until I had a chance to read it and compose my own:

Thoughts on Issue 2:

[SPOILER] - The cover, as we've discussed before, is gorgeous. It doesn't have much to do with the contents of the book, but it's pretty awesome.
- Alright, Angela's turn as narrator! We've long known that gargoyles dream, but I love that Angela can sense sunset approaching. Her dreams are cool. Past, present, future is all there. Wish we could've had her and Broadway stroking hair/brow ridges instead of always kissing. Still excited to hear the narration of some other clan members, particularly those that joined the clan in Clan-Building. And I still think a Bronx narration would be epic. An interesting perspective where he only understands certain words or names or phrases. We'll see.
- Gnash is almost talking to me, I swear. I'm so excited about the clan having an egg again. And Hudson agreeing that the egg hype is overblown. "we left the eggs to themselves" is great stuff. I like that Gnash and Hudson have a good realtionship already as the eldest and youngest members of the clan (note that Bronx is the same age as Gnash too). Hudson's youngest children would be around Gnash's age (see True), so it's cool to see him be such an influence on the young gargoyle.
- Any lingering doubts that something is up with Lex are gone now. He gives one bemused look, has one line about "better things to do" and he's done for the episode. Poor guy has to feel like the most isolated member of the clan. He probably felt more at home with the London Clan than he does now. I'm really looking forward to seeing how his arc develops Here in Manhattan.
- The rookery scene and content is absolutely my favorite part of this issue and probably Here in Manhattan so far. I've long had a deep interest in rookeries and rookery generations, so I'm thrilled to see all of this stuff. I'm as amazed as Angela that the rookery survived the trip to Manhattan. I thought that we had seen the remains of it back in "Shadows of the Past", but no, we discover, to my delight, that Xanatos took the time to preserve it. I wonder where Angela got the information about this being Demona's doing and Demona's long term plan for the castle and rookery. Perhaps Demona told her all of this during their talks while imprisoned in the Labyrinth. It's interesting to think that Demona thought that eggs were likely to be produced in the future from the beginning. Who did she think was going to be laying these eggs? Herself with Goliath, I suppose. Anyway, really fun to see the rookery and the single egg it holds. Quite a contrast to the last time we saw the rookery back in Awakening all full of eggs. And it is established that we've got a year to go for Egwardo's hatching. That puts us in late winter/ early spring 1997.
- Glad that Bronx and Fu make their first appearance in Season 4. Guarding the rookery as good watchdogs should. Bronx has always had a good nose for friend vs. foe, but Fu-Dog seems more like the "trust no one" type.
- When we arrive in the Labyrinth I like how Broadway and Hollywood have the same expression. Made me laugh. I also find it very interesting that Coldfire wanted to witness this birth. She's always had a certain mystic/shamanistic vibe to me. Maybe that's part of it?
- The Toni, Dominic, and Tony Dracon stuff in this episode is probably important for setting things up down the line, but didn't really grab me like the rest of the story did. It was interesting to discover Tony has a sister though!
- Jumping back to the Labyrinth, I feel like there is some missing dialogue when Elisa and the others regain consciousness and rehash their memories of what happened. It is a bit confusing to jump into the flashback. I'm thinking that page is missing its dialogue. If so, I hope this is corrected in my print copy.
- Mary is the midwife! Crazy where her path has led her. I'd love to get a conversation between Mary and Angela regarding Tom. In some ways, Mary could be seen as Angela's grandmother!
- Talon, on brand, instantly blames Xanatos for the abduction of Maggie and Mary. This feels like Kingdom all over again. When they are trying to figure out suspects, did no one consider Brentwood? Or was he already with Thailog when Maggie's condition was discovered?
- Mary vs. Sevarius is the most random and awesome fight I never expected to see. This whole scene is gold. I love how Mary dismisses Brentwood as a "wee gargoyle". Hilarious.
- Alex is growing up so fast. He's probably only 8 months old or so at this point, but looks like a toddler. Fascinating. It'd be crazy to see him use his powers to protect his father from Talon. Interesting to hear Talon refer to Maggie as his wife.
-All in all, a great episode. Really curious what happens next. My personal theory is that Maggie's child will be born human and Thailog will lose interest only to learn that a gargoyle egg is around instead and make a play on acquiring it. Beyond that storyline, the Lexington plot is most interesting to me. I'd love to see Amp show up, even if only by phone. Time will tell! [/SPOILER]

"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings

Okay, it's not a big deal but just because it's happened twice now I really do prefer to be called Alex. I just put Aldrius in my name for the sake of continuity.

[SPOILER] Okay, yeah that's totally fair. In Awakening the Rookery is some sort of big underground cave. So when Angela says "what was over there?" and we cut to a cave at the back of a pit of some kind I always thought she was asking "what was in that cave over there?". but I guess there was some sort of miscommunication along the lines at some point.

I really don't wanna harp about this too much because it's really such a minor quibble, but I'm not saying the change in characterization or the difference doesn't make sense, or that it's bad writing or anything, just that the *feel* of the character is so different overall. He's drawn much more softly, his persona is much more sensitive. It absolutely is a more fully fleshed out characterization. I guess it's more fair to say it's different than that it's off. But I really don't know if I necessarily like it as much. But then it's not like Dracon was my favourite character.

I guess I'm pretty sleep deprived because I could have sworn Goliath was there during the labour scene, but that makes absolutely no sense. I might have been mixing him up with Talon I guess. That's disconcerting and embarassing. Anyway I was literally just curious. I'm sure this is building up to sdome adorable Mary/Tom reunion down the road.

Though it does raise a point I was thinking about this morning, why did the Magus go with Katharine and not stay with Finella, and Mary not go with Tom & Katharine. The Magus actually knows how to use the Grimmorum. Mary should probably stay with her young son. Forgive me if this has been discussed before.

There are obvious non-diegetic narrative reasons for this. Then the Magus gets to have his little redemption arc in Avalon, And diegetic reasons too. Katharine insisted the Magus come along and he was obviously in love with her, and decisions aren't always made logically; but it was just interesting to me how much more sense things made the other way.

Everything I'm posting sounds so nitpick-y to me, I'm sorry. I'm not meaning to be critical, I just think it's interesting. [/SPOILER]

Alex (or Aldrius)

[SPOILER] Sorry for the double post, but one more thought on Mary: it's important not to overestimate the gargoyles' preexisting relationship with her in the 10th century. She was part of a large peasant camp seeking sanctuary from the vikings that arrived at Wyvern maybe a night or two before the events of "Awakening"? Goliath probably never interacted with her beyond the brief scene we see in "Awakening." Obviously she'll be a significant figure to the clan solely by nature of the fact that she was alive in the tenth century, but it's not like she was a known or significant person to them during that period.


Aldrius> [SPOILER] Re: the rookery. In "Shadows of the Past," Goliath notes the location of the rookery, but seems to be referring to a gaping hole that marks the former location (Angela asks, "What was here?" indicating that it no longer is). It's a little confusing because there is a cave opening visible at the back of the shot, and I had always kind of assumed that was the entrance to the rookery. But in retrospect, it seems clear that they're actually talking about the crater that they're standing in. Likewise, later in the episode, the lighting in the cave structure they enter is very similar to the rookery in "Awakening," but the dialogue makes clear that this is yet another different cave (the one the vikings camped inside in "Awakening"). I think this is a case of the writing being clear but the animation (gorgeous as it is) confusing things.

If I found anything "off" about Dracon, it's that he seems to have some concern for the City overall? I can't recall him ever expressing anything beyond his own self interest before.

I don't think it was really relevant to the story for Goliath & co. to acknowledge Mary. I mean, first of all, presumably Brooklyn would have debriefed the clan on his travels, so they probably know more about Mary's past than we do at this point. Second, neither Goliath nor Broadway is actually in the same scene with Mary at any point throughout this issue, so they wouldn't have any opportunity to acknowledge her anyway (she is kidnapped before they arrive). And obviously there are way more pressing concerns for them than to stop and have a conversation about Mary right now.


[SPOILER] I literally just watched Shadows of the Past too and I honestly can)'t remember, ugg. I think we see the entrance to the rookery but they don't go in.

It honestly really doesn't matter. The most important thing is Demona had long-term plans for the Clan. Which she immediately threw away as soon as things got slightly difficult. Consistent character behaviour.

I also like to imagine Demona probably told her about all that in The Reckoning. I think that makes sense.

Dracon, I dunno, it's not like it doesn't make sense he'd be behaving differently around his sister, just something a little bit off about his "voice". Maybe just a jarring transition.

The main thing I always liked about Dracon was the byplay between him and Elisa. Always felt like a dark twist on Bogey-Baccall. I'm not sure I'm feeling the dracon family on the whole yet or not. But I'm always down for a gang war story.

And yeah I know it's Mary. I'm just wondering if Goliath, etc. know it's Mary. But she's been hanging around since the 80s (which I also totally forgot but also we're not supposed to know that yet) and she's really a friend of the Clan but hasn't made herself known in that time. I don't really know why they wouldn't k ow, but it also seems like they don't.

That seems to kind of be where they're going with this, tho. [/SPOILER]


One other stray observation, and this isn’t a spoiler, I note that the story in Gargoyles #2 was 22 pages: two pages shorter than the story in #1 as well as all the 24-page SLG comics. Wonder if this will be the norm going forward.

Very nice surprise that the digital comic dropped today.

[SPOILER] "A Little Crazy" didn't feel like a Gargoyles title to me, so I'm glad that "A Lot Crazy" (which is not even a grammatical phrase) turned out to be a teaser/logline in the classic comic book mode, and not an actual title. "Idyll or Nightmare" feels much more classically Gargoyles.

I don't think I like the device of using narration in these comics, as it is often clunky in this issue. I don't feel like I got any more insight into Angela than I already had (which is ideally what one would hope would be accomplished by presenting her internal monologue). Rather, the narration is very clearly just there to provide exposition. I understand the purpose it's intended to serve for readers who know less about this world than I do, and I truly hope it serves that purpose and leads to continued high sales so that we get lots of new stories, but it's not enjoyable as a device for someone who already knows all this information.

Nice to get some forward plot momentum, and can't wait to see what comes next as things continue to snowball.

Wonder if we'll find out what Lex was up to this night.

The Gnash/Hudson dynamic is a highlight, and I look forward to more of that. Cool to see the rookery again, Kambadais does a great job here capturing that weird lighting that Walt Disney Japan did back in "Awakening." Also good to see Bronx and Fu-Dog after they were missing in the first issue! It's a little odd that Katana seems very fluent in English and presumably knows the word "egg," but hasn't figured out that "Egwardo" is a very obvious pun.

As others have said, although I like Kambadais's art overall, Travis Marshall and Sevarius are almost unrecognizable. Travis was always much more square-jawed on the show.

Interesting that Dominic is feigning dementia to avoid accountability for criminal acts. I would assume this refers to NY CPL 730, which determines a defendant's capacity (or incapacity) to understand the proceedings against him, and therefore his fitness to stand trial. I would have thought that all Dominic's crimes were outside the statute of limitations at this point, since he seemed to have been living off the grid for awhile. But apparently he was more involved than we thought in more recent Dracon Family business. In my experience, when a defendant is found unfit to stand trial for a misdemeanor the case is simply dismissed, but when he is found unfit on a felony, he is committed to care and periodically reviewed to determine whether he has become able to understand the charges against him with continued treatment, and the case remains open. I never specifically encountered this in the context of dementia, which often is progressive and untreatable, so I'm not sure what the protocol would be in terms of review.

I like Antoinette. Dino is really being hyped up. Hope he lives up to it.

The whole Mary thing is interesting. Presumably, Brooklyn contacted her as a favor for Maggie? How does Shari fit into all this? When she thanks Mary, does that imply that she had some part to play in getting Mary there? Does Mary have some link to the Illuminati? Or is Shari just playing her role as "labyrinth extra," and thanking Mary simply as a bystander?

Speaking of weird art choices, Owen's glasses are comically owlish, and for some reason he looks strangely glum and beaten-down in both of his appearances here. He hasn't had a line in the first two issues, but all of his appearances have been kind of perplexing art-wise.

David is perfectly smug as ever, and I can't wait to see where his interaction with Talon goes.

I love the Kambadais "incentive" cover with Bronx and Fu-Dog. I wish these Kambadais covers were part of the main batch of variants and more easily available. [/SPOILER]


The Connecticut part amused me all the more in light of it being the home state of another traveler to a fantastic setting who made some big changes to it (though time travel rather than travel between worlds, in this case) - though that's probably coincidence.
Todd Jensen

Thanks Todd. We also learn that Luz is from Connecticut. According to the other wiki, that's Dana Terrace's home state. I guess a little bit of personal influence on the show.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

MATTHEW - Thanks for another "Owl House" review.

The revelation of the Golden Guard's nae must particularly stand out to "Gargoyles" fans, given the connotations of the word "hunter" in the series. (That stood out to me all the more when I rewatched the whole series on DVD back in 2019.)

One particularly charming touch: the Bat Queen doesn't view her bringing the palismen to school repaying Eda's favor; instead, she's doing it for free, because she wants them to all have good homes.

And I also liked the part about Luz's goals being incompatible, given that her glyph magic won't work back on Earth.

Trivia note: the scene where Luz wakes up Hunter goes all the way back to a "first draft" pilot for "The Owl House", where Luz discovers a sleeping prince, bends over him as if to kiss him, then slaps him awake - just as she does to Hunter in this episode.

Todd Jensen

As I am waiting for the physical release next week, I'll instead direct my attention to Owl House.

Watched "Hunting Palismen" today which brings to light what the Day of Unity is all about, the relationship between the Golden Guard and Emperor Belos and just what his deal is with wild magic.

But the big point of the episode is that the students are getting palismen, and I really love this bit of world and character building. On the world building side, the fact that palistrom trees are being overharvested (and almost certainly exploited to keep preserving Belos' lifespan) brings to mind the potential dangers of overexploited magical sources that could very well endanger magic as a whole. Not to mention the real world problems of overharvesting trees like the Wotango, Brazilian Nut or the Monkey Puzzle Tree.

On the character building side of things, I like that Bat Queen has taken a more friendly stance and is offering the lost and abandoned palismen a chance at bonding once more (remember, shelter pets need lots of love too!). Plus, there's something really fun in exploring what kind of animal familiar best speaks to the character's heart and mind. Kind of like Harry Potter and their Patronus. Plus you get some really fun animal choices: Willow and her bee fly, Gus with his chameleon, Bocsha and her rather appropriate crab. But it also brings up a big issue with Luz; in the human world being a witch is a pretty big thing but on the Boiling Isles that's just an everyday goal. She's stated that she wants to continue being a witch even when she finds a way back home, but she hasn't really thought too deeply on what she plans to do with those magical powers. Going on adventures and making friends is the sort of thing she'd go for with or without magic, in the human realm or on the Boiling Isles. While it seems obvious that she'd want to become a good witch to protect the world and the innocent etc., that doesn't mean she knows exactly how to get there or even if emotionally speaking, she knows how to articulate that. But, Eda was nice enough to get her some palistrom wood and as Luz discovers what she wants from being a witch, she'll discover what her palismen companion will be. I'm guessing an otter, with a dark side. :3

But there's also the Golden Guard. And now we have a name to go with the face. And a reveal of his face too. Something I hadn't thought of before this episode was his and Belos having similar looking staves, ones without palismen atop of them. Well as it turns out they work on creating artificial magic because Hunter and his uncle and most of his family don't have magical powers. Which might explain why the Emperor has his issues with wild magic, and possibly why he has what looks like a curse worse than Eda's. What lies in the future for him, Little Rascal and whatever connection they might have to the first human is still to be explored. But at least a lost palismen has someone to bond with.

To wrap things up. So Latissa looks to be named after the muscles behind the arm, someone had fun coming up with anatomy-related place names. That....thing Kikimora has is beyond weird, like the hypothetical offspring between a dragon and a Hecatoncheire (and it wasn't consensual for either party). Looks like the show is setting up an open, secret conflict between Hunter and Kikimora; these kind of "I know you know and I know you know that I know" dynamics are always fun. Always comes down to who makes the first move and who slips up first. So this is the second time Amity's been absent for a big event at school, I can't help but think her parents are taking a much more active role in controlling her life after everything that's happened so far.

Favorite Lines:

Luz: I stayed here because I wanted to learn magic, right? I want to be a witch like Eda and Azura! But what does that even mean? And I've read stories like this. The main character always has to return home. And, what? Did I expect to be a witch back in Connecticut?

Luz: Why are you stealing Palismen, Golden Guard?
Golden Guard: Frankly...you should be more concerned about yourself. For the crime of...rocketing me off my own ship, you'll be locked in the the dingiest cell of the Conformatorium for the rest of your sad little life.
Luz: Pfft. Whatever. I already broke out there, like, twice.
Golden Guard: Then we'll just zap you to dust and throw you into the sea. That better?
Luz: Mrrrmm.
Golden Guard: Good.

Luz: So you're really going to do this? You're just gonna hand all these innocent little guys over to Belos? I know what he does with them. I thought you might've been a good guy. But I guess that was just wishful thinking. You're not my friend, you're just the Golden Guard.
Golden Guard: My name is Hunter.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

I'll admit that the logline I'd once imagined for it (which would have been almost as spoilery) was "Puck reveals himself to be a really sick and twisted 'Gargoyles' fanfic writer".
Todd Jensen

"Apparently the logline for "Future Tense" is even more of a spoiler."

D+ description: "Puck creates the illusion of a dystopian, Xanatos-controlled Manhattan." Hopefully people are just hitting "watch next" without reading the synopsis.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]


[SPOILER] Pretty sure we only saw a chunk of ground where the rookery used to be. Nothing in that bite that Goliath pointed to was remotely similar in appearance to the rookery we saw in Awakenings.

—Antony and Antoinette: or they’re twins. Lots of folks name their twins with similar name schemes,

—Tony’s characterizations: I don’t see how he’s off, other than the year in prison, and the fact that before this, we’ve only seen him around his minions and enemies where he’s going to bring the big jerk energy. This is around his sister, presumably twin, whom he respects and loves. The fact that the Dracon clan are all scared shitless of Dino has my full attention. The Dracons have never been so interesting before.

—Yes it’s Mary, she even says “Any friend of Brooklyn’s”. Since her appearance doesn’t have her interacting with anyone in the Clan, no way of knowing if they realize it’s her/whether Brooklyn has reintroduced them/etc. but the fact that she appears to be a licensed midwife, based on her outfit, sort of recontextualizes her conversation with Sato in the Halloween arc. She’s not just an acquaintance, but very likely a coworker.

—We found out that Maggie was pregnant in #7 of the SLG run, early November of 1996. Per Greg’s interviews it is May of 97. This implies a human gestation period, and that Maggie probably first conceived around the time of “The Reckoning” [/SPOILER]

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Become a writer; you can be petty." ~~Roshni Chokski

MASTERDRAMON - So they changed the title? I was under the impression until this morning that its title was to be "A Lot Crazy". Though "Idyll or Nightmare" certainly looks like a good title.
Todd Jensen

[SPOILER] Stream of conciousness thoughts:

*The Rookery is part of the Eyrie Building. Didn't we see the Rookery in "Shadows of the Past"? Still in Scotland?
*Hudson as a grandpa with Gnash is really cute.
*Fun little detail that Demona had a hand in the construction of the castle atop the Eyrie Building. I'm not sure how Angela knows this, though. Did Xanatos tell her? Still a neat detail.
*Anthony Dracon and Antoinette Dracon. Their parents were not very creative I suppose.
*Love the art direction and the style of everything, but some of the characters don't translate as well as others. Barely recognize Travis Marshall.
*Is that... Mary? Do they know it's her or does Goliath not recognise her and think it's someone else named Mary? Shari called her Mary, do they know it's the same Mary? So many questions. Still, a really cute touch.
*Tony looks kinda weird too, characterization doesn't seem quite right to me.
*Sevarius looks a little soft too, but the character's always a good time.
*Time for a Talon-Xanatos confrontation.

So overall cool issue, but I'm reminded why I'm not really a huge comic reader, I find the slow storytelling drip a little bit frustrating. But despite that; a lot happened here. The pacing's great, so that helps a lot with the fact that this comic is *full* to the brim. We introduce two new Dracons, bring back D.D., Thailog and Xanatos are involved, and then all their henchmen and whatnot. Pretty impressive that despite all that it doesn't feel overwhelming.

Despite a few quibbles I love the art. Feels classic, but also like something new. Kambadais clearly *loves* drawing Goliath and Thailog because they look *amazing* in every frame they're in.

I can't remember when we found out Maggie was pregnant. The Halloween SLG story, right? So in theory it's been about 9 months since then? Or is it a shorter gestation because... cat? I dunno.

I doubt it's the case, but it'd be pretty funny if Talon + Maggie just produced... a regular human baby. It's not entirely out of the question. [/SPOILER]

Alex (or Aldrius)

Gargoyles: Here in Manhattan Chapter Two, "Idyll or Nightmare" has hit the Kindle storefront at last!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"It can be a hobby, or really, anything else, but I love when people have fun doing what they love. It’s like they’re sparkling." - Marin Kitagawa

Well, it was more a reveal to the audience.
Todd Jensen

Now that I think about it, I don't know if Elisa had any meaningful interaction with Fox except for that one time in "Her Brother's Keeper."
If it wasn't for the fact that Elisa certainly keeps tabs on Xanatos' closest associates, it would've made a bigger reveal on her part.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

ED - Yow! I really hope you can find a solution for that problem soon.

Just listened to the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast for "Eye of the Beholder". Great, as usual. One element new to me was mention of how Fox's eye tattoo was clearly visible in Elisa's first encounter with the "Werefox" in the grocery store, which gave away its identity. (And Greg Weisman added that the logline for "Eye of the Beholder" on Disney Plus gave that away, as well. Apparently the logline for "Future Tense" is even more of a spoiler.)

And there's a particularly fun description of the moment when Xanatos gives Fox the Eye of Odin as an engagement gift - but you'll have to listen to the podcast to find out what it is.

Todd Jensen

Irritatingly, they've cancelled the Gargoyles #2 digital pre-order too now. No explanation, no indication of when or if they'll be available. Maddening.

Yeah, it makes sense they would cannibalize their best ideas from the plays into canon where possible.

I've got a comic trip planned next week with my sister, going to pick up issue #2 then.

Todd> One thing that stood out to me is how close the radio plays are to canon, at least in terms of tone and feel. The YJ two-parter "Torch Songs" is really close to Musicology 101.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

ED - Sorry to hear about your troubles with the comic, and I hope you find a way to straighten them out soon.

Listened to the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast about "The Silver Falcon". A good one, which includes a great story about Greg Weisman's grandfather who was Al Capone's accountant (which ties in with the Dracon element). I'm looking forward, incidentally, to finding out how Dominic Dracon will be depicted in the comic. I very much like the way the radio play handled him - devastated about the diamonds not being there after all and searching for them everywhere. (As I mentioned once, it makes a great parallel to his ex-partner Mace Malone's end - opening one door in the Hotel Cabal after another, hoping that this door will be the one that leads him to freedom.) In a little over a week, we'll find out how much or how little the comics version matches the radio play version.

Todd Jensen


Frustratingly, it looks like my Gargoyles #3 digital pre-order on Amazon has been cancelled. Moreover, Gargoyles #1-3 aren't up for sale on Amazon UK at all -- all issues, including #1, have been removed. Thankfully, my pre-order for Gargoyles #2 still shows even though it's not on public sale and I hope that is honoured and delivered without incident but it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

It was pulled on Friday morning so hopefully the delay getting it back was due to the weekend. I have to imagine it will get solved in due course. Amazon US still seems to have the issues and I can't imagine any reason to take it down in the UK. I just hope things go a bit smoother from here on out.


"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings


Todd Jensen