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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending March 12, 2023

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MATT - Interesting theory, and thanks for sharing it.

Admittedly, the classic gargoyles on European cathedrals look more like the Scottish gargoyles than like the London ones. Maybe the people who built the cathedrals thought that they had a scarier look than the more "heraldic animal"-like look of the London gargoyles, which seemed more suited for, say, royal decorations at places like Westminster Abbey.

Todd Jensen

B> I think one's invite-restricted, one moment...

Yeah, the Gathering of the Gargoyles is here: https://discord.gg/Qd4NTk76 (7-day link)

And Disney's Gargoyles MAY be invite-blocked, but try this: https://discord.gg/GRpBSskp (also 7-day link)

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

"I've picked up that the Newsgirl Legion in that episode was based not just on the "Scooby Doo" cast, but specifically the "Mystery Incorporated" version (the part you noted about Troy Baker as the sheriff sounding like Patrick Warburton ties in with that)."

I didn't know that. I've never been much a Scooby Doo fan. I watched a handful of episodes of the original show on Cartoon Network, but I got bored of how every episode was basically the same. But I gather MI made an effort to breathe new life into the tired old formula.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Todd> That's interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Kind of plays into the theory I have that most gargoyles in Europe (and perhaps most of the western old world in general) were more furry and animal-like (like the London Clan). And that the gargoyles we are most familiar with come from the new world and the eastern old world. Scottish gargoyles, I think, are mostly descended from refugees from the sinking of Atlantis. Atlantis gargoyles were similar to the new world gargoyles (see the Praying Gargoyle). Therefore, the Manhattan Clan's closest living relatives is possibly the Mayan Clan. This explains why the Wyvern gargoyles look so much more like the Mayan Clan and the Praying Gargoyle than they do the London Clan gargoyles. Just my rambling thoughts....

"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings

John Paul Gontor - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]

I was watching a PBS documentary on Easter as celebrated in Europe this afternoon, and it showed a custom in Slovenia where people dress up as hairy monsters and parade about the village; it mentioned that the legend behind this tradition is that the monsters would scare away evil spirits. It struck me that this evokes the gargoyles - if less "stone-related" and much more mobile - the notion of protector-monsters driving off evil.
Todd Jensen

*Italic, not Itatlic

Thanks. Both capital and lower-case worked.


Italic Bold Underlined

Itatlic Bold Underlined


B> Yes on Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur being very good.

Italics and Bold use the same formatting as the SPOILER tags -- use brackets for both and the slash for the end-tag. The difference is that instead of the word 'spoiler' you use a capital I or B.

As for Gargoyles, I was out of town for a school trip this week, but still checked in nightly to see if there were any NECA updates. I remember a similar situation last year when Broadway debuted, so I was thrilled to see Xanatos and especially Elisa up for pre-order finally. The Eye of Odin is getting included with Xanatos! I do wonder who'll be packed with the final Key to Power . . . human-Demona perhaps?

So that makes my pre-order queue at five with Brooklyn (almost a year since I pre-ordered our resident TimeDancer!), Broadway, the Steel Clan robot, and now David and Elisa (and Cagney!).

Still, its all just delightful. Only thing scary is the lack of shelf space, lol.

Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

Thanks, that makes me feel better about it. Apologies again about the length but I had a lot to catch up on. I look forward to your September poem, too. Can anyone please tell me how to do Italics? I saw one or more people use them here recently, so I tried the usual formatting since they weren't mentioned in the FAQ as far as I could find. Not that I'm really disappointed, since the tags made the intent clear. Oddly I forgot to use them in the places where I mentioned the show Dark Angel.

Thanks for your post, B, including the little story about your cats. And, on the "poems about the months" subject, there's a "Gargoles"-relevant detail in the September poem that I look forward to sharing with the room when we reach that month.
Todd Jensen

"First Impression" were we have a title.
One thing to keep in mind is that this isn't exactly a sub-division of the Team, these teens are are basically giving up on anonymity to act as public inspiration. They really can't go back to the shadow war that the Team engaged in, but more on that later.
One thing to keep in mind is that Beast Boy is already famous for his role in Space Trek and he's already kept pretty humble and down to earth so leading a team of superheroes isn't exactly going to give him a swelled head.

The nature of shadow politics is an important theme this season, and we'll see where that goes...

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Playing catchup because I've been too busy to keep up these past couple weeks. Apologies for length. I'm sorting this by the person whose comments I'm responding to rather than pure chronology. Fortunately, I don't have to complicate things further by using spoiler tags, since issue 3 has been out more than a week.

Ed> I don't have any reasonable doubt that Xanatos and Thailog are not collaborating and "great minds" wasn't meant to be ambiguous or suggestive. Xanatos wouldn't kidnap a baby, and them collaborating wouldn't make sense because Thailog wanted to keep the baby (until he learned it was human) and wasn't faking that so that David could play hero. Although it's ironic that the idea he copied was actually Owen's. But it shouldn't be too hard to copy it. Not only is corporate espionage par for the course, as I wanted to say when Xanatos and Coldfire were each talking about his technology, Xanatos's technology is everywhere; practically all the bad guys in the setting are using it, from Nightstone to the mafia.

Despite highlighting the round of names, I am also interested in seeing more of each of these mob bosses and how they may be differentiated from each other.

I'm surprised to hear there are gargoyle-themed romance titles. No, I've not heard of a specific association between Scotland and gargoyles either.

I wonder why Alex said "Doggie!". Bronx wasn't even in that scene, and surely he knows Talon is a kitty.

Interesting that Coldfire's scanner gave Thailog's name as "Thailog, Alexander".

Yes, "The little monster's completely human!" was a good line.

I knew the name Huracan from the Scion: God supplement for the first edition of the White Wolf/Onyx Path roleplaying game Scion, where he was the Titan attacking the Aztec pantheon. Grisha is of course also the name of the magic workers in the <i>Shadow and Bone </i>series, whose setting is Eastern-European-inspired.

It occurred to me that "Dino Dracon" puts together dinosaurs and dragons. It *has* been a while since we've had an original villain introduced and not a revisiting. I think Shari is genuinely surprised, since letting the baby go wasn't part of the plan.

"'Aren't they all?' is such a 'Gargoyles' line." Hmm, interesting insight.

Fox's powers flaring up and Broadway explicitly talking about her lack of control over them has to be setting up something.

Craig> Although I've mostly enjoyed #2 and 3 (reintroducing Mary automatically made things more interesting), I'm glad to hear that Greg said the comic comes into its stride in #4.

When <i>The Gilded Age</i> came out, I was pleasantly surprised that Salli Richardson was involved in making it.

I don't like the sound of Tony Anselmo being replaced as Donald Duck.

Ian> I do think that Greg might need more editing. There are some overplayed or repetitive tendencies I've noticed in his more recent writing here and in <i>Young Justice </i>(for instance, he let the "Fred Bugg with Two Gs" gag go on past the point where it was funny and where someone wouldn't realistically have explained to Forager it wasn't necessary, if only for the sake of their own nerves). I don't find it out of character for Thailog to just give up if he feels it's not worth continuing this big battle. Incidentally, back when I was watching the first <i>Ninja Turtles</i> cartoon as a kid, I had no idea it was based on a comic because they didn't advertise that (they also didn't advertise that various animes came from Japan).

That's a good idea, omniscient panels would make sense in the segments where the issue narrator isn't present. I think giving the bosses names does raise interest for them to have a larger role in the story (conversely, it would be disappointing if they didn't go on to).

Alex> Thank you for feeling that you could share and my condolences about Sadie. Aw, it's awful that it happened so unexpectedly. Australian Shepherds are beautiful dogs with those bright eyes. I'm glad that you had Sadie for those 15 years, though. The cat we lost most recently was one of our senior two, Smokey, in 2019, at the same time as we were moving house. Her sister Misty, the same age, went into decline around that time as well, but then she recovered. She had a scare about a year later, but came back from that, too, and is still kicking at 19. We already recorded a final remembrance video with my Mom stroking and talking about her during her first decline.

I liked that it was explicitly pointed out Xanatos wouldn't be involved in a child kidnapping, as we all guessed and I think it was a necessary moment for <i>Gargoyles</i> to have. I agree that the theme this story has been family. It would have been nice to have more Elisa. I wonder why eel DNA had more of an impact than bat or big cat DNA.

Slade was a really wicked villain in <i>Teen Titans</i>. I loved how it was the kind of show where unexplained sewer-dwelling robots and thunder spirit brothers could just show up and fit in.

I didn't think someone would be able to replace Ed Asner as the voice of Granny Goodness, but Deborah Strang did a good job. Though this version could have kept up the 'fake caring' act more. I agree about <i>Young Justice</i> and general knowledge of DC.

Matthew> Any specific reactions that stand out from new fans reading the <i>Gargoyles</i> comics? It's hard to imagine what it's like seeing all these characters for the first time here.

Speaking of Ron Perlman, I'm going to rewatch the 1987 <i>Beauty and the Beast</i> series (where George R.R. Martin was one of the head writers) soon where he starred as Vincent, as it's airing every day on the Start channel at 5:00 AM. I remember liking it when I was a kid, and he looks a lot like Joshua in Dark Angel so I wouldn't be surprised if he was an influence on the latter.

I also feel that <i>Young Justice</i> is the best and most lived-in-feeling version of the DC Universe. I've never minded the time skips, personally.
That's an interesting idea about Talon and Maggie having a range of different semi-mutate children.

I've thought before that given that all the real-world countries and cities seem to exist in <i>Young Justice</i> in addition to the fictional ones, the map must be very crowded, and possibly un-drawable.

Re: <i>The Owl House</i>: Have to feel for Bump. Raine Whispers is a they rather than a he.

Todd Jensen> Thanks for giving the origin of "duke"!

Eh, so it was to avoid the 'ban Harry Potter for encouraging children to cast spells' crowd. Although given that there was still magic in the show, I'm not sure why that specific thing would help. I'm glad anyway, because the purely scientific take on gargoyles is refreshing.

Hmm, the vampire hunter Holtz was mentioned on <i>Angel</i> a season before he appeared, too.

Thank you for keeping up the monthly poems! I had no idea Martius was so upset about the Roman addition of two months to the calendar. BTW, your poem reminded me that the original Roman names for the months are used in <i>Battlestar Galactica</i> and its prequel <i>Caprica</i>.

That's a wonderful feature for the Elisa figure! As a cat owner, I'd have liked to see more of Cagney.

Jurgan> BTW, to be specific, Scott Menville (Robin in <i>Teen Titans</i>) voiced both The Chief/Dr Niles Caulder and Mento/Steve Dayton (who has also appeared out of costume this season arguing with Garfield on the <i>Space Trek 3016</i> set, since he survived as seen by him sneaking away in Garfield's vision sequence), Hynden Walch (Starfire) voiced Elasti-Girl/Rita Farr, Tara Strong (Raven) voiced Negative Woman/Valentina Vostok and Khary Payton (<i>Teen Titans</i> Cyborg and <i>Young Justice</i> Aqualad and Black Manta but not <i>Young Justice</i> Cyborg) voiced Robotman/Cliff Steele.

Negative Man/Larry Trainor is usually a member of the classic Doom Patrol lineup but they used his less-featured distaff counterpart Valentina Vostok instead to match Raven's gender. Rita Farr was a co-star of Marie Logan in <i>Hello, Megan!</i>, playing Megan Wheeler's best friend Rita Lee, as well as Garfield's godmother. Paul Sloane (voiced by Kevin Michael Richardson), who is currently playing Captain Tom Bender in <i>Space Trek 3016</i>, is his godfather and played Megan's boyfriend Conner Manley on <i>Hello, Megan!</i>.

The live-action <i>Doom Patrol</i> series on HBO Max features Cliff Steele (Brendan Fraser), Rita Farr (April Bowby), Larry Trainor (Matt Bomer) and The Chief/Dr Niles Caulder (Timothy Dalton), as well as Crazy Jane (Diane Guerrero), who wasn't in this sequence, and Cyborg/Victor Stone (Joivan Wade), who is the only one with an official superhero persona when the series starts. The episode of HBO Max's live-action <i>Titans</i> that showed Garfield Logan (Ryan Potter) lived with the Doom Patrol and set up their own series had the same lineup, sans Jane and Cyborg, with the same actors except in Dr Caulder's case. Mento/Steve Dayton appeared in an episode of the <i>Doom Patrol</i> series, and Valentina Vostok in another episode. The episode of the <i>Teen Titans</i> cartoon where the Doom Patrol appeared as Beast Boy's former teammates had Mento, Elasti-Girl, Robotman and Negative Man.

I'm happy my comment that I'm enjoying your reviews was appreciated. To be fair, I think people who are enjoying a series like that tend to just read or like as it goes along, and it doesn't mean they're not engaged but don't have something to say except when there's something to correct or point out, other than that they like it. Even writing the comment in question I feared it might be too small and redundant.

I really hope Barda turns good like in the comics (and <i>Justice League Unlimited</i> and <i>Justice League Action</i>). If she didn't, that would be one deviation from the source material I wouldn't like. I wonder what antics between Guy and Hal and John led them to veto his joining the League back in "Agendas" and why he was eventually let in.

I agree that Spider-Man has one of the most iconic origin stories, and I don't tire of seeing it play out for each incarnation in films and cartoons.
Your novel is something you're still working on, right? It sounds interesting.

What Violet learned was that Gabrielle let the meta assassins who killed Brion's parents inside the palace. I was going to say that the Red Rocket Brigade are Russian, so their status as allies of America is ambiguous, but you changed that. I enjoy seeing Waller and the Suicide Squad show up, especially Monsieur Mallah (it's just such a fun name to say!). I wonder how the Markovian royal family stayed, well, alive during the Soviet rule.
In the comics, Devastation was created by the Titans (the progenitors the Olympians overthrew in Greek mythology, not the super team) to be an anti-Wonder Woman. She must have a similar backstory in <i>Young Justice</i>, because Greg said she was a year old in Season 1.

Todd Jensen beat me to it to say that the Newsgirl Legion specifically riffed on the version of the gang in <i>Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated</i>. The Fred equivalent being the child of the obstructive mayor is same in that show, and the mayor and sheriff also look like their counterparts in it. The sheriff in <i>Mystery Incorporated</i> was voiced by Patrick Warburton as an adult and Troy Baker as a teen in flashbacks.

Antiyonder> Those are both nice collections!

Interesting; I still have a soft spot for those Amalgam Comics.

Re: <i>The Owl House</i>: I like how Terra Snapdragon and Willow contrast; it would be too easy character-wise for the heads of the same Covens that Luz's best friends are studying for to be the good ones.

Your Disney Afternoon link reminds me that I'm really looking forward to the '90s <i>X-Men</i> animated series continuation that's in development. Hope they keep the iconic theme tune; surely they will after quoting it in both <i>Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness</i> and the <i>Ms. Marvel</i> finale. I haven't had time to watch <i>Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur</i> yet although I've been recording it; I take it that it's good?

Brainiac> Thank you for posting that! Rest assured, no part of it was anything less than interesting (of course, genetics have been an area of interest of mine from a young age when I aspired to create mythological creatures for real, and my Dad is a biochemist). I have similar questions about Sevarius, but we may find out. Your mention of transgenics also reminds me of Dark Angel (where it was achieved with the technology of the noughties and nineties if not the eighties - the X5 series were born c. 2000 and the earlier series transgenics some time before that). Did you watch Dark Angel? It's still one of my favorite shows.

Also, with their germ lines mostly unaffected, Talon and Maggie presumably don't have to worry about their offspring being sterile like most hybrid offspring of real-life panthers and lions are. Choosing a different species of big cat to mutate each mutate with would present problems for creating a new self-sustaining species. I wonder if the <i>Gargoyles</i> show creators knew that pumas (Fang) aren't even big cats, actually - they and cheetahs are the largest members of the little cat subfamily. I do think, however, that the <i>Gargoyles 2198</i> Labyrinth Clan will be more interesting if it still includes mutates as well as clones.

Given that Greg said Elisa and Goliath would end up raising a child through providence and tragedy, I'm afraid they may adopt Michael after something bad happens to Maggie and Talon.

Greg said that part-human and part-animal New Olympians have interbred.

It seems to me that the Third Race and the <i>Young Justice</i> version of the Lords of Chaos and Order have similarities in terms of their "makeup".
Thanks for the Discord link. Do you have links to the other two you mentioned?

Anthony> Greg does sometimes read the forums, but if you want to be sure he reads your message, it would be better to use the "Ask a Question" feature under the "Ask Greg" heading at the top of the page.

Roulette> Enjoy the comics!


Roulette> I made The Gargoyle Nation if you like.


There's also a Gathering of the Gargoyles Discord and a Disney's Gargoyles Discord.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Sorry for the double post, but I just learned that the upcoming NECA action figure of Elisa will include Cagney as an "accessory". (As a cat-lover, I found that bit of news delightful.)
Todd Jensen

I've picked up that the Newsgirl Legion in that episode was based not just on the "Scooby Doo" cast, but specifically the "Mystery Incorporated" version (the part you noted about Troy Baker as the sheriff sounding like Patrick Warburton ties in with that).
Todd Jensen

'Incidentally, the buff woman is Devastation (she showed some attraction to Psimon back in season 2), the black member is Holocaust (yes, that is his name). He was the one fighting Terra at the meta human depot in "True Heroes."'

I definitely recognized them from "True Heroes," but there are only so many names I can hold in my brain, and these seemed like minor enough characters that it wasn't worth the effort.

Young Justice 3x17: First Impression

This one is a ton of fun. Beastboy decides to launch a sub-group of the Team which picks up the name "Outsiders." So it took 17 episodes to get to the name of the season. I like his passion to do the right thing and shake off control, it speaks to the teenage rebellion at the heart of a lot of young superhero stories. The fact that the League are manipulating him to help further his plans is questionable. On the one hand, I don't know if they should keep him in the dark, but he probably prefers to think that he's independent of the grown-ups. Beastboy is very smart with his public relations strategy, offering to be arrested for saving the town of Brooklyn (I'm only just realizing it's a town in Maine and not, y'know, Brooklyn). It's a good example of using civil disobedience to get the public on your side, though the sheriff ultimately refuses to arrest them. (The sheriff was Troy Baker, but I thought he sounded a lot like Patrick Warburton.) I'm still expecting fame to go to his head, though.

But let's talk about the allusions. "Your Newsgirl Legion" was a great title drop to one of Kirby's sillier concepts. The Newsboy Legion was goofy (are they going to get the Whiz Wagon?) and incredibly dated. Making them girls who livestream their reports is an obvious update, but one that really works. Of course, this was really an excuse for an extended Scooby Doo riff. "Velma" loses her glasses, the other two are modeled on Daphne and Fred. And the alien invaders are unmasked as petty thugs who rant that they almost got away with it. I could feel Brandon restraining himself from typing "you meddling kids."

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Thanks, it was pretty fun seeing the kid versions of several of the adults. Like Mom and Dad Blight and what is certainly Boscha's mother.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!


Thanks for the latest episode review, Matthew. Great to see those back.

One of my favorite "little moments" in this one was Eda describing her being at the coven-training event as "a deal with the devil", when the then-principal's name was Faust.

And note the irony that, in the game that Terra set up, Eda was given the role of a "coven witch" and Raine a "wild witch".

Todd Jensen

Matthew> Really looking forward to the next episode you cover and on that note, the finale for the series (For now I hope*)

1. Raine being the one to get Eda some Apple Blood likely is a major reason for drinking any of it. I think I mentioned it, but again Dana specified that there is both a kid variant and the adult stuff.

2. Several of the kids caught up in the danger were Willow's dads. Besides the usual well meaning overbearing parent stuff, some speculate that they kept her off the Plant Track for fear that she would be under Terra's radar.

2. Yeah the episode further helps to show how cool of a Principal Bump could be. Besides the referential callback to Something Ventured, Someone Framed where Eda thought there were more offenses on her permanent record?

When she said in the TTBK, she is joking around where as in SVSF she sounds serious.

Basically suggesting that yeah Bump wasn't going to hold bogus charges against her. And heck, you have her involved with several events like in Enchanting Grom Fright and Hunting Palisman.

Oh and by the end of April, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur Season 1 will fully be on Disney Plus.

*Hoping again that the binges will help the show to get more material, even a comic.

In fact I'll repost at the start of next week, but there is a new volume of the Disney Afternoon Adventures out and another coming along with the One Saturday Morning (Recess, Pepper Ann as well as Disney's Doug) stuff:



Been some time, but back to it!

It's story time with Eda! Watched "Them's the Breaks, Kid" and I like that we got an episode on Eda's backstory as a way of cheering up Luz, girl does love her backstories.

I mentioned once before that you know you've got a quality show when the main characters barely show up and you can still make for an engaging episode. Well that can also apply to your main actors as well. The cast for the younger characters is pretty good, I have no problem believing that Natalie Palamides' Eda would grow up to Wendie Malick's Eda.

One big point I noticed about this episode is the manner of control and how it can be abused. We see in the past version of Hexside that Principle Faust was far worse and draconian than the current version of the school. And the current version has a living beast, pit...thing for it's detention room. He suspends and expels students for the most pedantic reason and while he doesn't emote much, certainly shows a cruel level of satisfaction at making his students and vice-principle squirm. And Terra turns a simple competition into a battle royale for no other reason than her own amusement. That combination of twisted obsession for order and sadistic tendencies towards the outspoken or downtrodden that make places like the Conformatorium make all the more sense. Of course places like that would exist, the folks in power enjoy that sort of thing.

But the main point of the episode is the beginning of Raine and Eda's relationship, I like that it goes for the complimentary form of connection. Eda's the talented troublemaker and Raine the talented oddball using a brand of magic few people respect. They're both outcasts of a sort but instead of doing a "lonely together" kind of meet they instead connect through their outsider perspective that not only charms the judges and impresses Snapdragon, but also expands their own mindset. It's easy to see why they were so close until Eda pushed Raine away and why Raine is so protective of Eda even to this day.

Which brings up the last bit at then end, Raine's either been faking his brainwashing for some time to get closer to the truth about the Day of Unity or he's been set free due to some dissension within the Covens. And it's not hard to see why, a draining spell using nine powerful witches? Doesn't sound good.

Some Final Thoughts: That ghoul aid at the end reminds of the Ecto Cooler Hi-C from back in the day. I don't remember the taste, but remember that it wasn't very good. Also, did Raine accidentally kickstart Eda's dependence on apple blood? Whoops. And Bump with his increasing number of stress toys was just hilarious, I've felt those days before.

Favorite Lines:

Vice Principal Bump: Principal Faust, don't you think you're judging these students a touch... harshly?
Principal Faust: Not at all. These students are already late to being early, and that's a slippery slope.
Vice Principal Bump: But if you keep expelling students, we won't have a graduating class.
Principal Faust: I'm just enforcing school policy.
Vice Principal Bump: That you added to. Y-You expelled the captain of our grudgby team because his shoes didn't meet your "appropriately squeaky" regulation.
Principal Faust: Too squeaky? A distraction. Too quiet? Can't hear them. Can't trust them. Some students are... irredeemable.

Young Eda: I can't believe I agreed to this.
Vice Principal Bump: This will be fine, perfectly fine. You can go five minutes without setting anything on fire, right?
(Eda's already playing with fire)
Vice Principal Bump: I know you have a reputation around school, but I just see a talented young witch. And I'll wager those stories about you turning the school inside out are just urban legends.
Young Eda: That was a fun day.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

There needs to be a discord for all of us Gargoyle fans to drop vids. Fan art. And thoughts in. Does anyone know of one? I've been thinking of making one.

B> Incidentally, the Marvel/DC crossovers are to me a rare case of where I made an impulse buy where the end result worked out well.

They still are good reads today and given the legal hurdles (Disney and Marvel, plus WB and DC) getting them today would be near impossible.


"Illusion of Control" one of my favorites for the season.

When I did my review of the episode, I stressed how important it is for the kids who were victimized and sold through meta human trafficking organizations to have a moment of downtime and for them to be kids. While it's not a big mover and shaker of an episode it does set up a change, that this will be more character driven in the future as Beast Boy starts to take the initiative.

The Harper family drama and Artemis and Will's relationship have it's conclusion later in the season, and Artemis and her mother's drama is still pretty heartbreaking. It's important to remember that she lost half a year of her life while she was pretending to be dead and I can't imagine Paula was happy about that.

Incidentally, the buff woman is Devastation (she showed some attraction to Psimon back in season 2), the black member is Holocaust (yes, that is his name). He was the one fighting Terra at the meta human depot in "True Heroes."

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Young Justice 3x16: Illusion of Control

This episode was a real character pile-up, and I only barely recognized many. I thought of this as mainly a bunch of slice-of-life vignettes rather than a single story. Artemis had a huge fight with her mother over still being involved with the Team; she's mostly been in an advisory role but I guess that still counts to an overprotective parent. She also talked about Artemis being attracted to Will despite him being married to her missing sister, and I'm gonna be honest, I don't care much about the Harper family domestic soap opera. (I have the YJ wiki bookmarked- I just looked up Will Harper, and apparently I completely forgot that he was a clone.) I was more interested in Forager and Vic's difficult relationship. Forager is the most adorable character, I just want to give him a hug, and it's even cuter when he's trying to be friends with a grump like Vic.

Garfield and Perdita are also cute together. Garfield ends the ep by holding a news conference. I get his belief that people need role models, and yet when he insists it's not about fame and popularity... well, methinks he protests too much, especially with the smirk he has at the end.

As for the action, it was a clever plan to kidnap Perdita as a diversion to capture a bunch of metateens. There was a bit of misdirection involved with Vertigo actually being Psimon (these names), and then find out he's dating the buff woman from Onslaught. Beastboy uses the old trick of blocking out your misleading senses, very similar to Spider-Man vs. Mysterio. I also liked the beat where a black member of Onslaught indignantly shouts that he's not a slave but a well-paid mercenary. Also had fun with Jaime and his psychotically violent other Scarab.

Anyway, this was a lower stakes episode that didn't further the plot much, but it had quite a few small character developing moments.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Brainiac> That's why I'm curious about the genetic structure of the New Olympians, normal DNA doesn't allow species to hurl lightning bolts or fireballs which obviously means they inherited and passed on some form of magic from their Third Race heritage.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Ed> I'm not convinced there is "true" Third Race DNA since they're magical beings evolved from the same principles as the will-o'-the-wisps. Their DNA is likely just a construct of the forms they take, if said forms even HAVE DNA.

I mean, Owen obviously has DNA. Nigh-perfectly human DNA, I'm sure. But Puck? Who knows.

Todd> Exactly. I'm guessing SOMETHING is different with the NOs, Fox, Alex, etc. But whether it's something that genetic science can actually track is another matter entirely (and likely down to what works best dramatically).

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Yeah, his comparison was Metropolis is San Francisco and Gotham is Oakland.

Personally I prefer them being in different states, I had Metropolis in the New York/Connecticut region and Gotham in New Jersey.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

I preferred to think of Metropolis as a stand-in for Chicago, since that would put it not overly far from prime Midwest farmland. Apparently Snyder put it right across the river from Gotham.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Craig> That is true, of course when they first showed Markovia on a map they put it close to Belgium, which is definitely not Eastern Europe.

DC's hardly been consistent with their fictional geography. At one point they said Metropolis was in Kansas.

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Matthew: Markovia has been an established Eastern European country in DC Comics since the early 1980s. It's not specific to Young Justice.

Todd: Interesting thought that Sevarius might not be aware of the Third Race. I don't think we can say definitively one way or the other, but it's not something I'd though about before.


Before it was officially confirmed that Markovia as an Eastern European country some of us had fun hypothesizing exactly where it might be. I even suggested that it might be in the Balkans which would explain both it's history as a former Soviet Bloc and why it would have a large amount of refugees from Qurac would flock there.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

"a mysterious American operative secretly sabotaging the superhero development of one of America's allies."

That was supposed to say "one of America's rivals," not allies. I loved that they explicitly referenced Markovia as having been a former Soviet puppet state and Brion therefore being hostile to Russia. It's a shame that that sort of Cold War paranoia has become relevant to the real world again. On a similar note, I remember an earlier episode where someone referred to Garfield being from "Greater Bialya," and he insistently referred to it as Qurac. Great way to blend politics with character.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

"Leverage" is a great episode, I love the three-way battle between the Team, Task Force X and the Rocket Red Brigade. One little detail that's pretty important is Beast Boy's dissatisfaction with the cloak and dagger methods that the Team has to engage in when dealing with Waller.

Incidentally, the Spike Spiegel teleporter is Eduardo Dorado who was a member of the Runaways from season 2. He's basically a better version of El Dorado from the old Superfriends cartoon.

More will be revealed on Gabrielle though...

Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Young Justice 3x15: Leverage

Secrecy is a big theme of this episode. Violet learns something at the end about their past, I think that Gabrielle was a traitor who helped trap kids for meta-human experiments. I think the team would understand that Violet is not Gabrielle, but it's a realistic decision for a teenager to hide it. The main plot is a dash of realpolitik, with a mysterious American operative secretly sabotaging the superhero development of one of America's allies. Said operative turns out to be... Amanda Waller! *dun-dun-dun* Okay, it was pretty obvious, but I was still proud of myself for calling it. There was also a subplot about a new group of kids developing their powers. Some teleporter with Spike Spiegel hair was leading the group, but the real core was the tragic case of Wendy/Windfall. Poor girl just wanted to be herself and nearly killed everyone in the room. I feel like there were some other hits on the secrecy theme, but I can't remember them now (I watched this yesterday and only just got to writing up my thoughts).

P.S. Loved the little marketing joke in the previous episode where one of the off-world heroes with the Justice League said "don't call us sidekicks."

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]


Back in the 90s growing up I was a huge fan of Gargoyles. I remember as a child I used to draw all the time Goliath and the other Gargoyles, and well space ships from Star Trek. Anyways I just want to share with you my love for your creation and I am sure you get this every day, but I would love to work with you bouncing ideas around since I have developed a love for writing. Anyways if you have any plans in visiting Japan keep me in mind.

Sincerely Anthony

Anthony - [MBfarmer85 at gmail dot com]
Anthony Georgison

One other reason for Sevarius to focus his attention on getting Fox or Alex (once he knew about the Third Race and Fox and Alex's heritage, which probably won't be for a while); the Third Race might not have DNA as we know it - at least, not in their natural state. Fox and Alex, on the other hand, are human enough to have it.
Todd Jensen

Oh, had this creativity demon for some time and just published the second chapter to a Spider-Man fic.
You can find it here if anyone's interested (I'm always on the lookout for feed back)


Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Still no sign of any of the digital Gargoyles books on Amazon UK!

Thanks for bringing us into March, Todd - fantastic!

Brainiac: Thanks for this fascinating ramble. Really excellent to hear the logistics behind it all. (Your comments on the NO and Third Race do make me wonder what happens if/when Anton gets his hand on Third Race DNA. A full-blooded Child of Oberon would be pretty difficult to handle but it occurs to me that Fox and Alexander would be targets for him - targets for Thailog too, for different reasons.)



I Martius am! Once first and now the third!
To lead the Year was my appointed place;
A mortal dispossessed me with a word,
And set there Janus with the double face.
Hence I make war on all the human race;
I shake the cities with my hurricanes;
I flood the rivers and their banks efface,
And drown the farms and hamlets with my rains.

"The Poet's Calendar", Henry Wadsworth Longfellow.

Todd Jensen