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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 23, 2023

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MATT> "Gargoyles #11: [SPOILER] I'm going to assume this is about Broadway/Angela's ceremony and not Brook/Katana's. This will be exciting! Is the clan all back together? Does that include Goliath? I also hope that Angela muses about wishing Demona could attend and/or that Demona watches from afar (or through the Tracking Spell). I think its unlikely she'd be there. Awkward! [/SPOILER]"

[SPOILER] I think Demona watching from afar is more likely than Angela wishing Demona could attend. We don't know where exactly Angela's head's at at this point as far as the Demona topic is concerned. We knew where it was at the end of "The Reckoning", of course. But that was before the "murder six billion people in cold blood" scheme she tried to pull off the very next time they saw each other. And then that word, that one nihilistic word: "Catch" [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] Personally, I thought Demona's complete non-reaction to Angela in "Everywhere" was interesting. As far as Demona is concerned, Angela most likely despises her. Now I think Demona, in her own messed up way cares, but I also think she's compartmentalizing. Her daughter, from her POV, hating her isn't something she wants to deal with. The next encounter should be fascinating. [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER] And while I'm musing, does anyone think it's possible that Demona already knows Katana? I mean the current present day of 1997 Demona? With time travel involved it's certainly possible. So maybe Demona's reaction won't be a "who are you?" But a rage-filled "You!" [/SPOILER]

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Voices from the Eyrie - Gargoyles Podcast]

Glad to hear the Hitchhiker's movie did inspire some people to read the books. I agree that Rickman's casting is inspired. No one can replace the original Marvin voice from radio and TV, Stephen Moore, but Rickman was a great fit. Overall the casting wasn't the issue with the movie. I appreciate them using Douglas Adams's good friend Stephen Fry as the voice of the Book, and I think Sam Rockwell could have been a great Zaphod if the directors had reigned him in and directed him to a less broad performance (the George Bush impression is a really weird choice). Most of all, it just felt far too slap-sticky and lacking in the dry British wit and intelligent ideas that make the books so great. It felt like a very American movie.

Kevin: You just reminded me, I also only read the book because of the 2005 movie. 2005 was the summer that I traveled to Madagascar, which involves a 12 hour flight from Paris to Antananarivo. I needed a book to read for that flight, and a trailer for the movie made me pick up and read Hitchhikers for the first time.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Become a writer, you can be petty.~~Roshni Choksky

I guess it depends on your starting point and your desired ending point.

I don't care for a non-Greg version of the film in itself. Even if it were great, my tolerance level for adaptations seems to be way lower than most. I know many people adore the 'Harry Potter' films, the 'Lord of the Rings' films, 'The Walking Dead' show... I don't. About the only adaptations I've cared for are 'Invincible' and 'Spectacular Spider-Man' and in both cases I was far less enamoured of the source material than 'Gargoyles'.

So for me (as I guess with most here), the final end point - the absolute, starry-eyed dream goal - would be Greg working on a lot of canon 'Gargoyles', as much as he wishes to. I don't need or want more than that because I really am only interested in Greg's work - as undiluted as possible. That could be a new animated series, novels or just more comics.

Animation would obviously allow Greg to dedicate himself almost full-time to it but, especially during the implosion of streaming, it would be high-risk - how many animated series have consistent pick-ups these days? If Dynamite were able to build the franchise to the point where there was a stable of multiple ongoing series in the same universe with a steady audience, I'd have more faith that this could be sustainable for many years/decades - at least as long as Greg wishes to continue writing.

Now 12 months and 1 day ago, I'd have been at least cautiously happy with a Gargoyles movie for the hope that it could stir anything at all. If you're 0% of the way towards your goal, anything is good. Even if it led to a more negative perception of the franchise, it would be worth a shot.

Now though... this October we'll be at 3 comics a month, one oversized. How much better does it need to get?!

At this point, hand on heart, I don't really want a movie upsetting things. I don't want the risk, however small, of some Disney executive deciding that the comics should reflect the film continuity, that we need brand consistency with the designs, that the original series should be shoved out of sight to make room. I don't need to click past news that Chris Pratt is voicing Goliath, that Disney+ are doing a live-action film spin-off instead of 2198 or whatever other unpredictable consequences that could happen when disinterested parties get involved. To me, there's just not enough upside at present to mitigate the risks.

Clearly, Greg will have a different perspective, different insight, different ideas of what could be possible with a roll of the dice. And everyone will have their own individual judgment. But at this stage, I'd guess people's views are mostly just reflections of their appetite for risk.

Personally? I don't want to be the dog reaching into the water for his reflection's piece of meat and losing both.

I feel we already have the dream. Two ongoings hitting practically every month. Greg as writer with, it seems, a huge degree of freedom to tell his stories. Two incredible artists who are consistent with the book and putting out absolutely breathtaking work. Amazing full-colour interiors. An editor who is engaged with the fandom but also clearly able to stir up buzz in the wider public. Text stories, specials, hype, sales, amazing covers from a huge range of different artists.

Yeah, I may grouse about a font choice or wish we'd get eVeN mOrE and I'll never stop hoping for Karine, Robby and Christopher Jones to come home, but fundamentally... THESE are the good old days of the franchise! Apart from the first 20 months from "Awakening", we've never had it so good. And if we make it to the 30th anniversary, we'll certainly never have had it so good for so long.


Craig: For what it's worth, the 2005 film (which, if nothing else, at least gave us the indisputably perfect casting of Alan Rickman as Marvin) is the only reason I read the original books at age eleven. I'm probably not alone in that.

As for counter-examples...The Legend of Korra was only greenlit by Nickelodeon as "promotional material" for the disastrous The Last Airbender.

Akira Toriyama only returned to the Dragon Ball franchise after Dragon Ball Evolution tanked, and he didn't want that to be the dying breaths of his biggest brainchild.

Green Lantern: The Animated Series wouldn't have existed without the Reynolds film, Transformers: Animated without the Bay films, and likely The Spectacular Spider-Man without the third Raimi film. And while some of those show the pitfalls of this approach (GLTAS only lasted one season in part because the parent film bombed and its toys languished on shelves), I think most would agree it's better to have them exist and cut short than not at all.

In general, big-budget Hollywood films get money thrown at the property, regardless of quality. It's simply how executives think.

Obviously if Gargoyles gets adapted, I'd RATHER it be by an artist who understands, appreciates, and does something interesting with the material. But even if it's absolute crap, it's far and away the best thing that could happen in terms increasing the likelihood of a spinoff getting greenlit on Disney+.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"It can be a hobby, or really, anything else, but I love when people have fun doing what they love. It’s like they’re sparkling." - Marin Kitagawa

Todd> Thanks for noting the anniversary of the announcement. It has been QUITE a year for Gargoyles!

Movie> I see what Weisman is saying and tend to agree that any interest will only help things along. Though I do share the worry about it being poorly made and the impact that could have on things. And I worry about movie stuff overriding canon stuff. All of this is why I personally just want Disney to make one of the spin offs on Disney+. 2198 seems best for various reasons. We'll see!


Craig—Cullen stepped down from the role because he himself thought that Jim was funnier. He’s said as much in interviews and commentaries on the subject. It’s notable because Cullen is still in every episode even after Jim takes over, playing minor characters or villains.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Become a writer, you can be petty.~~Roshni Choksky

CRAIG> I have mixed feelings on the idea, myself. But Greg Weisman has been in the business for over three decades and likely knows what he's talking about. He's probably seen things like data and other documents and research to back up his position. You seem to be relying on anecdotal evidence to back your point.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Voices from the Eyrie - Gargoyles Podcast]

So, Greg has always been of the opinion that a Gargoyles movie could only be beneficial to the franchise because it would raise awareness. I don't really agree with that. Just as one example, I love Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I think the lousy 2005 movie has tainted the franchise, still, almost twenty years later. It's still the primary association for many people, and it makes them less inclined to engage with the books. I'm thrilled that we have the Gargoyles comics, and I think a bad movie could hurt sales, so I'm not really eager for a live action adaptation unless it's really well done.

Re: Jim Cummings/Monterey Jack, it's worth noting that Peter Cullen was the original voice of Monty for about half of the original run of Rescue Rangers. Cummings took over and is doing an impression of the voice Cullen originated. I've never really read an explanation for why Cullen left the role.


Last year's announcement was also on my mind this weekend, Todd. And to think, we still have whatever could be mentioned/announced at tomorrow's Dynamite panel at San Diego Comic Con to look forward to!

Truly exciting times for this fandom :)

Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

I realized that just one year ago today, we got the news that Dynamite was coming out with the "Gargoyles" comic. Exactly one year later, we've got eight issues (seven in the main comic, one in "Dark Ages"), and the promise of a Halloween special.
Todd Jensen

Finally able to pick up my physical copies of #7 and DA #1 yesterday. Not completely sure why they chose quite such a thick card stock for DA, even given the extra inside pages, but the comic itself looks beautiful. Sadly, the text story is still uncomfortable to read with that font and background. Think I’ll type these stories up so I can access them in a more readable font. Definitely hope they rethink the typeface for future issues.

The Hallowe’en special sounds great. Didn’t expect a Gnash spin-off before ‘Timedancer’! I’ll be interested to see how Greg handles the shorter form. I found “Reunion” a little bit of an unsubstantial meal especially once the coda and intro ate into the page count. However, short comics can be amazing (and the UK tradition is for much shorter serialised instalments so I grew up where 7 pages a fortnight was an absolutely massive epic). If this is a chance to dig more into the Quarrymen - especially Sarah - I’ll be intrigued. And another new artist. (I do wonder if this is a story that has a precedent pre-Dynamite or if it’s completely invented in response to the request for a Hallowe’en special. It would be interesting if this was the pitch for the plot that became “A Bronx Tail” but equally it would be a bit of a step if this is the first new piece of ‘Gargoyles’ canon - as far as we’re aware - not to have at least some antecedent in Greg’s mid-90s plans.

Let’s hope 3 per month do well and we get another regular title. It does seem like Dynamite are very firmly staying in the orbit of the clan which makes sense but does make me wonder if ‘Pendragon’, ‘Bad Guys’, ‘New Olympians’ and ‘Heroes of Ulster’ are likely to be quite a way down the totem pole. At this point, I think my ideal scenario if it was ever to be worth Greg and Dynamite’s while would be four ongoing books: ‘Gargoyles’, ‘Dark Ages’, ‘Timedancer’ and a single ‘Gargoyles Universe’ book alternating between stories from the other spin-offs.

Phil: The question function is open so Greg will get to it eventually if/when he resumes answering. Although by then, the question may have been answered in the comics.

Matt: I don’t know that I see Greg ever catching up to real-time. In Dec 22, we were in May 97 so if in Oct 23 we’re in (let’s be generous and assume it ends post-midnight) Nov 97, we’ve only moved six months forward narrative time in ten months. At this rate, we wouldn’t hit 2023 for forty or more years. However, I don’t think the period setting hurts it at all and if anything it allows time for Greg to figure out how to reconcile real life events with the Gargoyles universe and thereby keep a degree of coherence which is harder if you’re tracking real-world events closely.

Craig: I find the teasers really annoying but it’s so impractical to be following Gargoyles stuff and still avoid them that I end up getting spoiled anyway one way or another so I’ve largely given up trying to dodge them. I just wish they’d find ways to tease that were more sizzle than steak. Greg goes to almost fanatical length to preserve secrecy and then it feels like huge pillars of plot are given away months in advance. I can’t help thinking “Demona’s back… and this time she’s EVERYWHERE!” would have been simultaneously a more accurate, more intriguing/buzz-worthy and less spoilery tease for #7. Or Robert Kirkman used to be really good at describing why to buy the issue instead of necessarily what’s in it - “…will never be the same”, “changed everything” etc. Obviously these can feel hyperbolic but not if they’re true and the fact is, ‘Gargoyles’ has always been about consequences. Genuinely, in #5, Goliath made a decision that will change the future of the gargoyle race forever…

New Voices… not sure if it’s worth spoiler-texting?

Superb ep. Even with Jen’s absence (fingers crossed she’s able to return soon - excited especially for her reaction to #7!), Greg, Greg and Jamie absolutely smashed this one.

#7 - Interesting to hear how the Grimorum came to be and the possibility for spells from other periods. I assume that, given enough issues, we will see multiple spells that end up in the Grimorum through flashbacks, ‘Timedancer’ etc. but the way Greg talks about it suggests that this isn’t nailed down… or he’s playing down its future appearances to misdirect.

DA #1 - Good to have confirmation of Verity’s script name. Although now I realise all these years we could have been calling her, as a placeholder, Mrs Hudson!

Greg confirms we’re on track to beat the record of 18 issues (I mean, with the Hallowe’en announcement, that’s basically confirmed but it’s still awesome).

Fauxfilm: Great discussion shutting this one down, something I notice has been like whack-a-mole the last week or so. I have to take my lumps as well with this one for sharing it! Although, on 3G in snatched moments with several nights of very little sleep, it was more consciously outsourcing my critical thinking to this room than necessarily aiming to spread it. (I remember sharing the SLG news here before anyone else because a friend in comics flagged it up to me so sometimes obscure sources can crack something big though clearly not here).

(And I agree with the commentary that the main interest of a film is the benefit to the broader franchise although personally I couldn’t care less and would slightly worry that it could cause Disney to make some bad decisions in terms of promoting the film continuity over canon.)

Jim Cummings: Lots of great bits here - had never clocked that Jim Cummings was both Tigger and Pooh and I didn’t know (or forgot) that Dingo got his voice thanks to Monterrey Jack.

Flashback: I agree with Greg that the "Double Jeopardy" flashback comes across as slightly inelegant but mainly because the scene itself feels like it’s really only serving the purpose of explaining something in the present. As a flashback, it’s really well written but ultimately feels inessential - it’s a conflict that is already resolved and doesn’t feel like it resonates more deeply with the episode. If it illuminated something new about Goliath - perhaps something thematically resonance like his feelings of loss as a parent having abandoned his rookery, which admittedly may have been too on-the-nose - I think it would feel more integral even while being a retcon. Still a fun scene all the same.

Interesting talk about Thailog being part of the villain triumvirate and I like the way Greg says, “I wanted him to be a big villain not an imposter”. Of course, with Xanatos moved into the greyer category, it means our two lead villains are both gargoyles, leaving the space for another top-tier human foe. I quite like the symmetry of Thailog and Castaway being the kind of species-flipped echoes of Xanatos and Demona but we’ve yet to see if Castaway can (or is even intended to) push to the front of the pack like that (obviously disregarding TGC). And of course, there are other great foes like Dino but I don’t know I see the gangland villains getting that high up the pantheon.


"Oh bother..." - Goliath
"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"

Todd > Now I’m wanting fan art of Goliath with his head stuck in a jalapeño jar.

Listened to the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on "Double Jeopardy".

[SPOILER] I was amused by Greg Weisman's comparison of Goliath to Winnie-the-Pooh - I wouldn't call Goliath a Gargoyle of Little Brain, of course, but I can see the parallels now. (I can't imagine him going after honey, though - not with the eagerness of Pooh, at least.) [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Oh, and rereading through "Dark Ages" #1, I can see where "Verity" came from.
Todd Jensen

B - Thanks. I'll have to reread that review.

My copy of "Dark Ages" #1 arrived in the mail today, appropriately - and, whoa, a "Gargoyles" Halloween Special! (Their third Halloween adventure, in fact. Certainly the most appropriate human holiday for the gargoyles to get involved with.)

Todd Jensen

Craig> You can find all the solicitations on the GargWiki and they're all over Twitter as well.

I too went for a time avoiding them between Issues 1-4ish. However, I've found that they are not very spoilerish really. So, in order to help my impatience between issues, I enjoy them for the teasers they are. Something more like reading through Ask Greg or something. Canon In Training. You do you though!

"I have one absolute rule: No gargoyle left behind. Period." - Brooklyn, "Render Unto Caesar"

Matt > I've admittedly started avoiding the solicitations...I miss the days when you'd just get a tease about the next month's issue. Knowing the premise of a story that's four issues away is kind of exhausting, and ruins the surprise of experiencing the story in real time (and based on the latest Voices from the Eyrie podcast, Greg hasn't even WRITTEN these issues that are being promoted yet! He said he just finished #9). I get that it's the nature of the beast in terms of getting presales, but I've found that it's hurt the experience of enjoying the story for me.

All that being said, though, I'm intrigued by this Gargoyles Halloween Special. Is this the secret project Greg had alluded to? I'd love a link to the solicitation/cover art if you have it, just so I can get a sense of what to anticipate!


Phil> I've been wondering the same thing. I think it's a very safe assumption that Verity is the same (878) generation as Mentor. Lefty is less clear. He seems younger than Mentor. Maybe. But if he's Angel's biological father he'd have to be Mentor's age or older. Lefty could be Angel's biological brother which means he could've hatched in 898 (with Chomp/Chaw) or 918 (with Second/Sacrifice).

A few thoughts on the various solicitations and teasers revealed today:

Gargoyles #11: [SPOILER] I'm going to assume this is about Broadway/Angela's ceremony and not Brook/Katana's. This will be exciting! Is the clan all back together? Does that include Goliath? I also hope that Angela muses about wishing Demona could attend and/or that Demona watches from afar (or through the Tracking Spell). I think its unlikely she'd be there. Awkward! [/SPOILER]

Dark Ages #4: [SPOILER] I love that we are getting Desdemona becoming priestess as canon. I love this culture stuff. I also love how this is going hand in hand with her presiding over the ceremony in 1997. Very cool. Based on what we've seen of Verity so far, I'd be willing to bet that Verity is a priestess of the clan in 971 and Desdemona trains with her. [/SPOILER]

Gargoyles Halloween Special: [SPOILER] How lucky are we?! Three comics in October! And so many this year! All told, we'll have about as many stories this year as we did through the entire SLG run! This will also make Gargoyles #12 the 101st canon "episode", I believe. We are zooming right along in the timeline if this brings us to Halloween 1997. That'll put us only a few months out from Egwardo hatching. I wonder if Greg is moving the timeline along as best he can to eventually catch up with real time. Going to take a while, but maybe one day! [/SPOILER]

Big day for Gargoyles! Never The End!


I wish Ask Greg was open, and providing more than just the Young Justice character countdown (which is apparently going to continue for most of the next two years).

I have lots of questions, but a couple of non-spoilery ones I would like to ask. For example, are Lefty and Verity of the same rookery generation as Mentor? (Seems like a safe assumption, but it's an assumption nonetheless.)

Phil - [p1anderson at yahoo dot com]

"Verity" also fits thematically with "True".

That reminds me, I was annoyed that what Mentor heard at the beginning wasn't dragons.

Todd Jensen> By Ed last week in his spoilered-out review.

When and how did "Verity" start getting proposed as the name for Hudson's mate? I somehow missed that part.

I'm looking forward to the new podcast, though the "slightly over two hours" length means that it might be a while before I have the opportunity to listen to it.

Todd Jensen

One oddity on the podcast is that Greg had not yet received his copies of Dark Ages #1, and seemed to be unaware that the first page of the issue was the text, "Our kind has no names." When Bishansky mentions this, Greg seems confused. Is it possible that this was an editorial decision, and not something scripted?

New Voices from the Eyrie podcast is out (over two hours in length!). It covers Gargoyles #7 and Dark Ages #1, as well as "Double Jeopardy." Unfortunately, Jennifer wasn't able to participate, and she is missed. Hope she is well. The two Gregs are joined by Jaime Thomason, who is as delightful and insightful as ever. The next edition, covering "Upgrade," is slated to include Thom Adcox.

Insights include learning that Greg tends to equate Goliath with Winnie the Pooh when writing his character (in terms of his naiveté and reasoning faculties), and the script names of the four "new" gargoyles we met in Dark Ages #1 (Lefty and Hippolyta were pretty obvious, Verity and Antiope were theorized and now officially confirmed). The podcast was recorded just two days ago, so kudos to Bishansky on the quick turnaround time. As a snapshot of where things stand, Greg has written Gargoyles #9 and Dark Ages #3. Greg is going to be on a Dynamite panel at San Diego Comic Con on Sunday, so I'm cautiously optimistic that we may learn about the Gargoyles mystery project sooner rather than later.


I looked up Dave Schwartz's page at GargWiki, and saw a picture by him of some of the Wyvern gargoyles fighting a dragon from the "Dark Ages" pitch.

[SPOILER] Now I'm wondering, especially in light of the logline for #3, if we're going to see that scene in the "Dark Ages" comic. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Greg > Thanks for confirming. I had a sneaking suspicion it was him. I've just been enjoying his artwork on the Darkwing Duck stories from Disney Adventures that Fantagraphics republished in their latest volume. What a tremendous talent.

All the original pitch art for Dark Ages was done by the late great Dave Schwartz.
Greg Weisman

Sorry for the double post...in addition to receiving my physical copies of Dark Ages today, I also received the third volume of the Fantagraphics Disney Afternoon Adventures collection, which came out a couple of weeks ago, and figured I'd offer some thoughts on it for the interested.

This one has the Rescue Rangers on the cover (the two prior volumes had Darkwing Duck and TaleSpin respectively). The next volume (due out February 2024) has Gummi Bears on the cover, and the featured story will be an adaptation of the pilot episode, "A New Beginning." Curious that they haven't featured DuckTales on the cover yet, which seems like the most obvious choice to garner sales.

This volume was a pleasant surprise for me. The first two volumes were primarily made up of material I remember from my childhood (stories from Disney Adventures and other Disney Comics titles, like the monthly TaleSpin and Rescue Rangers titles). Whereas the majority of material in this volume comes from international markets (especially France), and therefore was entirely new to me. The two longest stories are both from a French publication called Disney Club: the Rescue Rangers title story "The Count Roquefort Case" (ah yes, the omnipresent cheese puns) and the DuckTales story "The Curse of Flabbergé." Both stories are 44 pages, and both try to build up an epic flavor by spending a great deal of the page count recounting centuries-old backstory that informs the modern day quest (incidentally, both also focus heavily on French culture and history, clearly to draw in the French readers! Who knew that Monterey Jack had French ancestry?). These stories have some deep cut references to the TV shows (possibly added by the modern-day translators), including references to Monty's mom Camembert Kate and Fat Cat's human owner Aldrin Klordane from the Rescue Rangers opening five-parter, as well as a gag about the infamous "a sea monster ate my ice cream" scene from DuckTales. Curiously, Zipper is absent from the Rescue Rangers story, although he is mentioned briefly (no explanation is given for why he's not there...and he's even featured on the spine of this volume!). The artwork in these longer stories isn't exceptional, but it's on model and has some fun moments, especially on the DuckTales one. The characters' "voices" are all correct and it's easy to hear the dialogue in your head as you read. The Rescue Rangers story has a cute final twist that is unfortunately dragged out for several pages after it has become painfully obvious. The DuckTales story features some unusual tie-ins to the broader Duck universe: we meet an ancestor of Fethry Duck (a character who never appeared in the 1987 DuckTales series but was prominent in international Donald Duck/Uncle Scrooge comics), and the translator/editor also chooses to tie the story to Brutopia (Carl Barks's surrogate for Cold War USSR, a country that frequently figured into Uncle Scrooge stories, but never was a part of DuckTales lore).

France also offers a Goof Troop story set in the post-'Goofy Movie' era, where Max is dating Roxanne. It's not much of a story (the "twist" is really really obvious from the beginning, which makes Max look like an idiot, and the ending REALLY fizzles out in embarrassing fashion), but the art is nicely expressive and very fun to look at, at least. Also from France, a Bonkers tale which is....well, about the same level of quality as most Bonkers TV episodes. It does feature both Lucky Piquel and Miranda Wright working side by side, which is a bit of a novelty, I suppose. Finally, completing the sampling of French product is a one-page Launchpad gag.

These French stories also feature some anachronisms added by the translators, which annoy me a bit. The Bonkers story is given the English title "Mouths Wide Shut," referencing the Kubrick film Eyes Wide Shut, which didn't come out until several years after Bonkers was off the air. The DuckTales story has a taxi driver requesting euros as opposed to francs, obviously not period-appropriate for a story released in 1992. PJ calls Max "bruh" at one point, and Max orders Thai tea, which I don't recall being at all a mainstream thing that teenagers would casually order in a cafe in 1997. I don't know why they felt the need to "update" these stories when the whole idea of this series seems to be reproducing stories that were published contemporaneously with the TV series in the early 1990s era. (For the record, I love Thai tea. I just don't see 'Goofy Movie'-era Max ordering it.)

There's also a Gummi Bears story originally published in Germany (written by Lee Nordling, of Gargoyles "The Price" fame). Like the Gummi Bears stories in prior volumes, this was produced by the Disney Studio program (a collective of writers and artists from the 1960s through 1990s who were working in the U.S. but produced stories solely intended for the international market, where Disney comics were much more popular than in the U.S.A.). And like those other Gummi stories, this is a breezy read that doesn't have a ton to do with the TV show (Gummi berries are conspicuously absent from these stories, and the Gummis live in a thatched cottage as opposed to Gummi Glen). Taken on its own merits, the story is a cute little three-hander between Gruffi, Cubbi and Sunni about trying to break a string of bad luck Gruffi is having. Lots of physical comedy.

Getting to the stuff I've seen before, the highlight of this volume has to be the two Darkwing Duck stories, both from Disney Adventures. These are the first two stories in the so-called "Fluffy trilogy." These stories were written by Doug Gray and drawn by David Schwartz. Yes, I'm fairly certain this is "our" Dave Schwartz, the late character designer who did the original designs for the Trio on Gargoyles (probably right around the same time he was drawing these comics), and to whom Dark Ages #1 is dedicated. Schwartz was also a storyboard artist on Darkwing Duck, and presumably picked up a little side money with these comic stories. As a kid, I always liked Schwartz's art on these Fluffy stories: there's a little more shading and texture than in the typical Darkwing art, making it feel a little grittier, and he gives all the characters irises and tiny pupils, which makes their eyes look sort of crazy and off-kilter, adding to the weirdness of the stories. Doug Gray captures the voices of Darkwing and Launchpad and the overall tone perfectly, and these stories could have easily been episodes of the show. Really fun stuff. There's also a one-page text piece by Gray that gives some fascinating insight into how these Disney Adventures comics were created. When he wrote these stories, Darkwing Duck had not yet premiered, so Gray was purely going off of the series bible and model sheets, and maybe one or two VHS tapes of episodes. It's remarkable that he was able to capture the tone of the show so well (and also, this process is absolutely baffling...these stories weren't published until July '92 and October '93--the latter after Darkwing Duck had finished airing new episodes!--so why was it necessary to rush the production of stories that wouldn't see print for YEARS?). Gray says the reason he created his own villains was because he hadn't seen episodes with Megavolt, Bushroot, etc., so he wasn't confident that he could capture their voices based solely on the series bible. It made more sense to just come up with his own characters. Fluffy remained popular enough among fans that he was resurrected for the Joe Comics run of Darkwing comics in the 2010s, the only such comics-exclusive character to have such a long shelf life.

TaleSpin #4 is reprinted in its entirety. So far, these volumes have reprinted four of the seven issues of TaleSpin, so more than half the series has been reprinted! The TaleSpin comics were always among the more consistent (perhaps because the characters on the show and their relationships are so well-defined), and this one is typically enjoyable, if not particularly a standout.

There are also short Disney Adventures stories from DuckTales and Rescue Rangers. The DuckTales one I remember well, and it has a fun loose art style by Giorgio Cavazzano, and a rare featured role for Duckworth. One thing I noticed in this story is that, while Scrooge and the nephews and the Beagle Boys are typically colored their traditional 'Uncle Scrooge' colors in the DuckTales comics (red shirt for Scrooge, orange shirts for the Beagles, black shirts for the nephews), Gyro inexplicably is updated to his 1980s DuckTales colors (red hair and pink shirt). Weird inconsistency. The Rescue Rangers story features Fat Cat working with Sewer Al, an alligator character Tad Stones created for the show but ultimately decided not to use...he occasionally popped up in Rescue Rangers comics and storybooks.

Overall, another fun read that I would recommend to fans of these shows. Really looking forward to the Gummi Bears-centric next volume.


I received my Dark Ages "Pitch Art" variant cover as well, and it is indeed beautiful. I had previously thought (based on the thumbnail image in the cover gallery) that the gargoyle on the bottom left was Hudson's mate, but I now see that I was mistaken. It appears to be a random design.

Question: Does anyone know who the artist is for the pitch art? It's a shame that he/she/they aren't credited anywhere. Perhaps Greg (if he remembers) can share that information, either here (if he happens to be lurking) or on a future Voices from the Eyrie podcast.


Great discussion! :p
Concrete Flatwork

On a more positive tangent, my Pitch Art cover for Gargoyles: Dark Ages arrived today, and it is gorgeous :D

This, and the variants by Drew Moss and Ken Haeser are the 'rarer' covers I was keen to get for this series that weren't readily available at my comic shop. As mentioned by Craig last week, I am curious if there will be more covers that feature the original pitch. :)

Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

And it's still spreading despite Greg's official statement.


Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Yeah, this fake movie news is now spreading like wildfire on Twitter, it's giving me a headache.
Vicky82UK - [vickysunseeker at aol dot com]

Wingless > Greg hasn’t heard anything about it, and that “news” is fake. The only website that reported it is notorious for making fake posts for clickbait.

I can’t believe it’s actually happening! Disney has chosen Kenneth Branagh as Director of a live action gargoyles movie! Exciting news, my only hope is that Greg Wiseman is involved. It might actually happen this time.

I find it interesting that Greg decided to make the three women who bore Arthur to Avalon be Morgana, Nimue and the Lady of the Lake. Traditionally, they're Morgana and two otherwise unidentified women called the Queen of the Wasteland and Queen of the Northgales.

Yes, I recall that trio, and they always struck me as having that "Hecate Trio" tone.

Jurgan brought up that there was no direct counterpart to the Love Triangle in "City of Stone" (the closest being Macbeth excluding Demona from that disastrous meeting with Bodhe), but I did notice a sort-of-parallel in his more modern-day life. While the version of Guinevere's disastrous infidelity we're most familiar with is her affair with Lancelot, earlier versions of the story of King Arthur have her betray Arthur with Mordred, and some of these have her willingly helping Mordred in his takeover of the kingdom in Arthur's absence (though that element dropped once Lancelot entered the story). This echoes Demona and Thailog's plotting against Macbeth in "Sanctuary" (and it feels particularly appropriate to compare Thailog to Mordred here, even if Macbeth isn't one of his "fathers").

Todd Jensen

I saw Todd brought up the question of comparison between Macbeth and Arthur and some of the counterparts, one brought up would be who would fill in for the Weird Sisters in Arthur's story. Well, the Hecate Trio is a recurring motif across European myth and Arthurian lore is no different. There was a trio of "damosels" that were encountered by Gawain, Ywain and Marhaus.
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!