Another thought on #6. Greg Weisman once said that he would have liked to have given Wolf a few more "clever" moments (citing the scene in "The Thrill of the Hunt" when he explains the gargoyles to Billy and Susan as working for the Evil Ninjas), though admitting that his becoming a Mutate in "Upgrade" made his "not-too-bright" tone understandable. It struck me that this issue did allow Wolf to display a bit more smarts; he has the sense to, before carrying out a raid on Riker's that might get Tony Dracon killed, meet with his uncle first and make certain it's okay with Dino. (Which it is.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Nov 25, 2023 7:02:29 pm EST from 174.72.60.154

Algae > I don’t think even Greg Weisman could come up with a supervillain as evil as David Zaslav. ;)
Craig
posted @ Fri, Nov 24, 2023 2:21:52 pm EST from 24.46.160.43

CRAIG> Nobody knows, Slaughter immediately cans them all for tax-breaks.

Too soon?
Algae
'Nuff said.
posted @ Fri, Nov 24, 2023 8:44:38 am EST from 88.87.179.191

Blaise > Interesting question, re: what types of movies Slaughter Films makes. I’ve just sort of been assuming he makes exploitation/grindhouse-style B-movies, mostly because his name reminds me of the 1972 blaxploitation movie ‘Slaughter’ (starring the recently deceased Jim Brown as the title character) and singer Isaac Hayes, who of course famously did the theme song for another blaxploitation movie (perhaps the best-known one). The title ‘Blood Ratio’ and the accompanying picture could certainly fit this profile. The poster on the furthest left (‘Disruptor’? The title is partially cut off) appears to imitate that classic crop duster scene from ‘North by Northwest,’ but with a woman in place of Cary Grant.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Nov 23, 2023 10:13:35 pm EST from 166.198.251.108

Thanks for the latest review, Blaise. A great Thanksgiving gift to the comment room.

ALGAE - I remember, when I first imagined Brooklyn encountering the Three Musketeers during his Timedancing (inspired by Elisa's line about how the trio had used to be like them back in #1), speculating that they'd feel like a human counterpart to the trio. I've never read the book and have only a very "general knowledge" level of it, so I can't say which Musketeer would parallel most which member of the trio in this scenario. (I also thought that if it had taken that route, Cardinal Richelieu would have similarly echoed Xanatos.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 23, 2023 7:09:27 pm EST from 174.72.60.154

Just popping by real quick to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.
I'll have more to say on the literary bits but I'm saving that for later.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Nov 23, 2023 3:38:18 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

****Blaise stumbles into the Room carrying a massive table of food (turkey, mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, etc.--the stereotypical fare eaten in the U.S.A. this day). He sets it down, takes out a bib and utensils, and begins to eat.****
Happy Thanksgiving (U.S.A.) to those who celebrate it. And to those who don't, I hope today is a great day, anyway!


Getting back to these and with the long weekend, I may have some time to catch up...
UNDERWATER> And now Brooklyn, my favorite character, is narrator.
[fist pump]
And I’ve been in positions where I can relate to what Brooklyn is feeling here: something happens that just pulls the world out from under you and it feels like you can’t breathe and everything’s slow and muted. On the plus side: great artwork on this first page!

We continue the conversation from last time with Goliath electing to remain in custody. I love his admission that he is *not* sure of this course, but he has said numerous times in the past that humans and gargoyles must learn to live together, and this is the time to test that (and doing otherwise could just make things harder for them in the city, if not the world). No one is happy with the decision (especially Coldstone), but Brooklyn accepts it and leads the Cold-Duo away.

The action now moves over to the gangland arc where Dino and Glasses are listening to the news, which of course calls the previous events an “attempted escape” (where does the misinformation come from: the news or the prison?). Dino hears this and concludes that the gargoyles are “chumps,” basically deriding the rest of the mob for being afraid of them. This is interesting to me, because it indicates a certain arrogance on Dino’s part--he seems to be conveniently forgetting that the biggest reason he got away from Goliath was because of the G.T.F. intervening. This, and more things in the future, are leading me to believe that Dino is not as clever as he thinks he is. Admittedly, he *is* trying to work smarter (at least smarter than he has in the past, by his own admission), since the first of his plans came about because he read the same article Broadway and Hudson were reading back in “High Noon” while he was in prison (CONFIRMATION!). Figuring from this that Rosaria and Peter were seeing each other, he cooked up this scheme to set their respective families fighting amongst themselves. And that part of his plan is working so far, so it is still a shrewd move on his part. In any event, Dino is DEFINITELY dangerous, as he has moved on to attempting to kill Grisha Volkov by car bomb.

Back at the Eyrie, the clan confers with Elisa and Xanatos. Security’s been tripled at Rikers (damn, that’s fast considering this is the same night) and Elisa reveals that Goliath has a court case (which these events might hurt). Well, she reveals it to the clan--Xanatos already knows, even the bit about Goliath already having a lawyer, somehow. And he says he’s refused all access to the Eyrie building to keep the rest of the clan safe...which does nothing for Brooklyn’s suspicions of Xanatos, so Brook orders Coldstone and Coldfire to stay alert at the castle that day (and apparently Coldstone feels that this order makes sense as opposed to his earlier ones...). The last panel of page 6 is interesting to me as it focuses on Broadway and Lexington more than any other clan members. I find myself wondering what’s going through their heads here. Is it just concern at Goliath’s situation or is there some concern with how Brooklyn’s handling it. Either way, Brooklyn himself is also not having a good time right now.

Back to the “gangland” story, and it turns out Volkov survived the car bomb (I was wondering if the new Disney overlords would let a car bomb death squeak by). We get another set of parallel panels as we get both sides of the of what happened:
* Dino is disappointed that Volkov survived, but the “misplaced blame” aspect of the plan is still in place, as Dino used the exact same kind of bomb that Jack Dane uses (because Dane taught Dino this back when he was working for Dominic...boy, that’s a lot of Ds). This actually makes Dino glad he didn’t take out Jack back when the latter turned rat so he can be a scapegoat now.
* Volkov is in the hospital, looking much the worse for wear, but he’s alive! And conscious and able to talk within hours of nearly being blown-up (tough SOB). He’s talking with his currently unseen son, and (true to Dino’s prediction) fingers Dane as the one who set the car bomb (which he recognized by the clicking). And since Dane works for Brod now, that means Brod is the “head of the snake” that needs to be cut off, and he’s sending his son to do this.
Something that’s occurred to me: Volkov is the head of the Russian mafia in this universe (at least in New York City), and Brod comes from eastern Europe. Is it possible they are already familiar with each other and have some bad blood to begin with? I can’t help but notice they *both* used the “cut off the head of the snake” analogy, so I’m wondering if there’s some connection. If that’s the case, it seems to indicate that Dino’s success so far with turning mobster against mobster is helped by them already being predisposed to disliking each other. I know Dino mentioned earlier that it “ain’t too hard convincin’ the paranoid they’re under attack,” but I’m wondering if his targets so far *already* had more personal beefs to begin with.

At any rate, Dominic now asks if Dino’s going after Volkov next, leading a frustrated Dino to yell they’ve just been *talking* about Volkov and that Slaughter is the next target, and they’ll hit him tonight...all at a volume Antoinette can hear in the next room. Again, I feel like Dominic is putting on the “dotty old man” act for Dino as well, and getting him to say things out loud he wouldn’t otherwise for Antoinette to hear and act on.

We have a couple of brief interludes:
*At court, Castaway is trying to do some rabble rousing in the gallery before Judge Roebling calls everyone to order and says he has a ruling on the motion for Goliath’s “potential human rights”...
* But we don’t hear that, as we join Goliath waking up in chains once more, with Elisa there to watch him. Again, no words that we are privy to, but the moral support of a comforting presence at least.

At the castle (in a panel that is almost exactly like the group panel from page 6...well, you save time and money where you can), Brooklyn orders the clan to stay put in the castle for the night. However, Broadway is approached by Owen, who tells him he has a visitor. Some folks have commented on the oddity of Owen referring to him as “Mister Broadway, sir” and I admit it threw me at first. No, Owen hasn’t been as...“formal,” shall we say, with the gargoyles before, but this is a different dynamic than they have had before, so new forms of address aren’t impossible. Also, maybe the visitor actually asked for “a Mister Broadway” and Owen was just following that line of address. Actually, given who Owen is at heart...he might have just been Pucking with Broadway.
[Dodges tomatoes]

What really threw me, though, was the visitor: Antoinette Dracon. I did not expect this happening at all, let alone like this, with her being let into the Eyrie Building (didn’t Xanatos say he had “refused all access”?), asking for Broadway by name, pleading with him for help and even trotting out the “Gargoyles protect” line (where the heck did she learn that?). There is so much going on here that it left me off balance. Honestly? I was reminded of some fanfics I’ve read where the gargoyles are WAY too easily introduced to and accepted by complete strangers. But if I know Greg Weisman (or at least his writing), then there is a lot going on here under the surface, and all (or at least some) will be revealed by the end of issue 12.
Also, I love Broadway’s quiet “I knew he was evil” in response to Owen letting Antoinette in. It just amuses me.

And now we get the big, two-page “Timedancer” spread! I love this. It’s just little snapshots with Brooklyn’s narration, but we see enough to confirm a few things: picking up Fu-Dog first and fighting terracotta warriors, being in 2198 with Katana at some point during his dance(s) there (I know she wasn’t in the original 2198 outline) and seeing a flying saucer and the Eyrie Pryamid, and holding Gnash’s egg on the U.S.S. Nashville (take that all you people who thought he was named after the city!). My only complaint is that I know the fold in the middle is eating up some of the art so we don't get the *full* image.
The narration is great, too, if sad to see Brooklyn so down on himself and his leadership abilities. Yeah, he’s used to just keeping his family together during the Timedance and that doesn’t necessarily translate to being a good clan leader, but no decision he has made in the past 24+ hours has really been bad. Also, for the record: I love the spin-off crack. That’s the sort of thing I would say to myself, too.
But at the end of it all, Gnash lets Brooklyn know that Broadway has left the castle (in the most kid way possible!).

We catch up with Broadway now, but we aren’t the only ones: Lex has joined the stakeout! Broadway mentions that Brooklyn’s not going to like this, to which Lex replies, “Bonus.” Jeez, Lex...are things really THAT bad? Well, Broadway mentions that he and Angela are planning their Commitment Ceremony, something which Lex seems lukewarm about until Broadway asks him to act as a Second for it. After that Lex, after a bit of happy disbelief, is all for it and honored. However, neither of them think Brooklyn would be “into it” for some reason, and I cannot wait for the Trio to just freaking talk this out (or fight it out, or just do *something*). But Broadway changes the subject to ask Lexington about the “long-distance thing” with Staghart, to which Lex just smiles--along with MANY other people, I am sure, because this is now OFFICIALLY OFFICIAL. If I could post a gif here it would be Sheriff Blubs and Deputy Durland of “Gravity Falls” firing off a cannon.

But Lex comes back down to earth to ask just what exactly they're doing here, only to be answered by the action beginning. Antoinette had warned Broadway about the attack on Slaughter, so we are at Slaughter Films (I wonder what movies they make; the posters only say so much) as it is about to be attacked by Cybots, of all things. And they appear to be controlled by Glasses (in a car driven by Pal Joey), using a RECAP visor. Interesting mix of technologies, there; Cyberbiotics and Scarab Corp. They’re after Slaughter, who is understandably surprised by the drones...then the gargoyles...then the drones AND gargoyles. While the appearance of the gargoyles really rattles Joey, Glasses quickly recovers and brings on what he calls “a little of that Dino Dracon signature overkill" (tells you a bit about Dino there). And I love the reactions to the massive numbers of Cybots, with Lex even calling it what it is:
LEXINGTON: Is it just me, or does this seem like overkill?
BROADWAY and SLAUGHTER: Not just you.

We briefly check in on Brooklyn as Elisa explains the results of the earlier court scene: Goliath will be given a hearing to determine Goliath’s status. Elisa’s dialogue here is really telling: how she starts saying “the city” and then amends it to “the humans”, how she calls it “a trial” herself, and what she says will be determined--no, decided--no JUDGED at that time. Brooklyn’s the one saying “Drowning” but it seems like Elisa feels something similar at this point.

But now we return to Antoinette, who is listening in on a discussion between Dino and Volkov’s son, who apparently goes “way back” with Dino (and yet his father was still willing to “contain” Dino earlier, which again says a bit about this particular Dracon). Seems the younger Volkov is just letting Dino know that he’s going after Brod, both to protect his “rep” and because his Ma’s ticked, and that something may happen to Tony during this. Dino, doesn’t seem bothered by Tony dying, though (what an uncle!), and says he won’t hold any hard feelings toward the younger Volkov...who is revealed to be Wolf! (Yeah, apparently, as others have found out, Volkov is based on the Russian word for "wolf" or "wolves")
Now *this* was a surprise! No preview prepared for this, and I love that. Of course, Wolf isn’t going to miss an opportunity to go after Goliath either, so there is *another* threat to our heroes.

Fun times (for us, if not the characters)!


OK, I'm off to spend time with family. Hope you all enjoy the day (with feasting or not)!
****Blaise finishes eating and collects the now empty table and carries it out of the Room.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Thu, Nov 23, 2023 3:01:43 pm EST from 45.48.54.221

TODD> Personally, I'd be more surprised if some version of the Three Muskateers DIDN'T exist in the GU, given Dumas (very loosely) based d'Artagnan and co. on actual historical figures.
Algae
'Nuff said.
posted @ Thu, Nov 23, 2023 9:04:24 am EST from 88.87.179.191

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 23, 2023 8:11:57 am EST from 174.72.60.154

ED - I hadn't seriously thought of the Cheshire Cat being real in the Gargoyles Universe - but then, if the Three Musketeers can get in.... (And, according to the Annotated "Alice in Wonderland" that Craig mentioned - I've a copy of it as well - the concept of a grinning Cheshire Cat predated Lewis Carroll; Charles Lamb mentioned it in a letter as early as 1808, though Carroll seems to have been the one to come up with its gift of appearing and disappearing.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 22, 2023 8:08:59 pm EST from 174.72.60.154

Craig: Very interesting about Alice statue. I guess in the 'Gargoyles' universe, the Chesire Cat comes under "eventually, everything...". Since characters like Sarah and Margot came out of background characters perhaps there's more to the Cheshire Cat as well. Seems like the sort of thing Greg would utilise.

Shame about ‘Dark Ages’ being pushed back. I remember thinking when it was announced that the turnaround between the start of working on it and the release of #1 seemed incredibly tight. I kind of wish they’d hold the issues back a bit to start to smooth out the release schedule once they begin releasing but I guess the economics of even successful books are sufficiently tight that it makes more sense to ship as soon as possible. Still, if 'Quest' is pushed back as a result of this perhaps it will help ease the schedule later on. (Also, I'm assuming that the delay is at a publisher/creative level but I guess it's possible unexpected delays could arise from Disney's approval process). In any event, after the experience of the SLG years (let alone the wilderness years that followed), the occasional extra wait seems a tiny price to pay.


Belated response to VOICES #42

Superb podcast as ever. Fantastic to have Brigitte Bako as a guest. What a legend. Funnily enough, as much as Angela has a good bit of Demona in her, I thought Brigitte reminded me of Marina Sirtis in a few moments!

Quest being 5 issues… huh. I admit a significant reason I wanted it to be more is that I love the idea of evenly-sized volumes on the shelf at the end of the day. I’m aware this is a preposterous reason and I’m glad that Greg is being led by story. Sounds like the series will end up relaunching around the anniversary which will be interesting.

And it sounds more Demona-focused than the initial covers might have suggested. (I’m kind of surprised Dynamite didn’t aim to brand it as a Demona spin-off given their love of villain books but I dare say this will all make sense).

While I agree the Tom/Katharine thing stands out a bit, I think it works when one considers that Katharine is in the mediaeval monarchy where views on ages of marriage were a fair bit different, it doesn’t feel all that unnatural. Plus, let’s face it, who knows how long it took Tom and Katharine to view each other as husband and wife - and even then, that’s not official in any meaningful sense. And of course, there’s the forced choice that Katharine has literally no other options besides the Magus and Tom (which I assume isn’t the case for Padme although I can’t remember the specific details of those films due to not caring very much). I think it perhaps surprised me at the time but ultimately works for me.

I was going to say more about the Magus’ redemption story - the discussion was fascinating and there are lots of thoughts that arise from it. But I'm realising it's a far, far bigger topic and I have much more to say than I have time to approach right now so in the interests of putting this post out I'll save all that for another time.
Ed
posted @ Wed, Nov 22, 2023 2:16:41 pm EST from 86.157.169.177

By the way, here's a link to a picture of the Demona Zoo Lights display in Phoenix, if anyone's keen on seeing it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gargoyles/comments/17xx9br/happy_holidays_from_demona/
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 8:53:43 pm EST from 174.72.60.154

I also note that the release dates for the upcoming Dynamite issues have been updated (per the Gargoyles News Twitter/X feed). One thing I find curious is that when Dynamite pushes back the release date of an issue, they don't immediately adjust the date for the following issue. This leads to weird results like Dark Ages #5 and Dark Ages #6 having the same prospective release date, which looks silly and obviously won't end up being the case. Not a big deal, but I wonder why this is (presumably some boring administrative reason).

More interestingly, though, Gargoyles #12 and Gargoyles: Quest #1 currently share the same release date. I have to imagine that Dynamite will be less keen than usual to push back the release date on Quest given that it's a first issue. I wonder if they will actually release both issues on the same date.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 8:21:59 pm EST from 24.46.161.191

The Alice statues, by the way, made a cameo in a novel called "The Gargoyle Hunters" which was published a few years ago. It was about a father-and-son team who go around 1970's New York rescuing gargoyles (the term was used loosely here, including regular statues) from buildings scheduled for demolition - thus having gargoyle hunters out to save gargoyles. (Though their quest turns out to have a dark side - more like hoarding than genuine rescuing - and ends tragically, giving them something more in common with the Hunters we know.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 7:24:05 pm EST from 174.72.60.154

Inspired by Elisa's Halloween costume, I have been rereading Lewis Carroll's Alice books, specifically the 2015 annotated edition. One thing I learned from the notes is that the Central Park statue has a misspelling. One of the surrounding plaques containing quotes from the books displays the first few lines of the poem "Jabberwocky," and Carroll's nonsense word "borogoves" is misspelled as "borogroves," with an extra 'r.' (This is a common misspelling that even found its way into some printings of the book over the years, presumably because the misspelled word rolls off the tongue more naturally and puts one in mind of the word "groves.") I found an amusing New York Times article about this from 1998, wherein the Parks Commissioner says that the misspelling was brought to his attention just as he had finished finally correcting signs in the park that misspelled then-mayor Giuliani's name. He says that correcting the misspelling would be too costly as it is inscribed in metal.

I also note that, in the statue's Gargoyles appearance, while most of the characters on the sculpture can be seen clearly, the Cheshire Cat (perched in a tree behind Alice) is just an indiscriminate blob of paint. The Cat's absence is rather amusingly true to the character's ability to appear or disappear at will.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 6:38:02 pm EST from 24.46.162.137

I saw it the other day. Good stuff!
I wonder if the person who did it knew if it was Demona, or just chose her because she looked cool. Either way it's always nice to see!
Kate
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 1:45:51 pm EST from 172.59.32.34

Fourth!
Wow, that's not something I expected to hear. Not the early Christmas lights (those are getting put up even sooner each year), but that a zoo would have them shaped in a cartoon villain from the 90's.
Kind of one of those stories you doubt the truth behind it because it's so odd to hear.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 11:54:36 am EST from 64.85.245.77

Third!

Yes, Todd, I heard about that too. I'd love to hear how that happened. If I was closer, I'd certainly go check it out.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 8:48:02 am EST from 204.184.178.1

Second.

I learned yesterday that the Phoenix Zoo's ZooLights (an annual holiday event with lots of multi-colored Christmas lights) included a display of lights shaped like Demona. I'd like to find out more about that (presumably someone handling the ZooLights was a "Gargoyles" fan). Even though I now live in Phoenix, I don't know if I'll actually go and see it - I'm too much of a "prefer to spend my evenings at home" person - but I thought it was worth sharing here.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 7:45:11 am EST from 174.72.60.154

Ichi!

I've been watching Pluto on Netflix, an anime based on a manga by Naoki Urusawa, sort of a reimagining/spin off of the Astro Boy anime. And... wouldn't you know? Keith David plays an incredibly important character. He's awesome in it, and it's a great show. Sort of a long form story about robots and humanity and it's got this long running murder mystery plot.

I've been watching it both in Japanese and English (mainly in Japanese, but I'll switch to English when Keith David shows up) and both voice overs are good.

Incidentally also on Netflix is Monster. As in Naoki Urusawa's Monster. Which is also a great series (MUCH, much longer at 64 20 minute episodes, though, Pluto is 8 episodes that are an hour long each).

But both are WELL worth the time spent and I think would really appeal to this crowd. Long-form plots, deep characterizations, Urusawa loves doing that sort of Chekovian thing Greg does where he'll bring back a minor character 25 episodes later and give them a big story. There's also a lot of attention to detail, especially in Monster where the show is set almost entirely in Germany, and a lot of the architecture and such is accurate.

I'd also compare them to Breaking Bad. Real people in desperate situations.

So yeah, consider it.
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Mon, Nov 20, 2023 4:00:01 am EST from 70.27.161.202