A Happy Saint Patrick's Day to all!

[SPOILER] On the nature of the theft, I assumed that because the Wyvern was in the thick of battle at the time he wasn't picking up on the stolen items at first, it wasn't until both Excalibur was stolen and Carbonek manifesting that his "treasure sense" became impossible to ignore. As for singling out humans, because Gargoyles aren't usually depicted as being interested in worldly possessions I figured he naturally jumped to the conclusion that humans and only humans were stealing from him. Possibly that they used the Clan to distract him while they snuck in and stole from him. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sun, Mar 17, 2024 4:02:27 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Happy St. Patrick's, everyone! And a very belated St. David's Day, while I'm at it. I would have mentioned that on the day, but the post sort of got stuck in draft.

Blaise: [SPOILER] Interesting analysis of The Wyvern's sense of theft (I'm on the fence about whether the definite article is part of his name or not). If I may point out, back in #5, just as they're finding the dragon, Alesand reaches for one of the bits of gold on the floor, and is sharply warned by Antiope against even touching it. That, to me, argues for your option #3 (that it's the quality of the thief), perhaps even that it's not so much theft as any contact with the dragon's hoard that sets him off. Of course, it's as likely, in my mind, that he can tell when anyone touches his stuff, but he's just not as worried about his "cousins" so he brushes it off, perhaps even thinking of it as belonging to all of them in common.

This does raise the question of how *Antiope* knew this was the case, I suppose. Antiope seems to know quite a lot surrounding the dragon, really, even if she doesn't seem to quite know what she knows, and I'm sure there is a good story behind that should we ever get to hear it.

Lest I should get too cocky about remembering this detail, of course, I confess I do not catch the connection between Carbonek and the SLG comics, and have some supplemental (re-)reading to do. What a huge, massive universe this is!
[/SPOILER]

I anticipate getting "Here in Manhattan" #12 sometime in the next month or two or so, depending on...well, I've whined enough about that. Looking forward to it whenever it finally gets here.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Mar 17, 2024 3:48:51 pm EDT from 99.74.15.252

[SPOILER] While I agree with Blaise that it's a pity we didn't get a "bookend", the closing picture had its own charms - with not only the humans and gargoyles all gathered together to hear Shari's story, including Alesand sitting with the gargoyle hatchlings, but even the Players' dog nestled by the gargoyle beasts. (I'm trying to think if we ever saw dogs and gargoyle beasts interacting before. The only occasion I can think of was Bronx and Gilly dozing at Jeffrey Robbins' house in "Clan-Building".) [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Mar 17, 2024 9:58:08 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Great thoughts as always, Blaise! [SPOILER] I had the same idea in mind about a bookend with Hudson at the end. Seeing his thoughts still dwelling on her in 1997 Manhattan would've been a poignant touch. Still, great stuff. And I like your thoughts about Mentor's path vis a vis the Archmage following Wyvern's Very interesting. [/SPOILER]

Happy St. Patrick's Day, all!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Sun, Mar 17, 2024 9:41:21 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

Oh, and happy St. Patrick's Day, everyone!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Mar 17, 2024 9:19:35 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

BLAISE - Thanks for the review.

PHOENICIAN - [SPOILER] Well, "Henry VI Part One" isn't one of Shakespeare's major plays (though I remember discovering it very early on; when I was around seven or eight, I discovered a collection of Shakespeare's plays on my parents' bookshelf, was curious about it, and started reading it; the opening play was "Henry VI Part One"; they were doing the plays in roughly the order they were written). It's best-known nowadays for a very negative view of Joan of Arc, who, though she poses as sent by Heaven as per her traditional image, is really in league with the Devil - and not even that competent a leader; every time she frees a French town from the English, the English quickly recapture it, leaving the Dauphin to wonder whether he did the right thing in taking her on. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 7:58:28 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

****A smartphone floats in with Blaise's face on the screen.****
First time posting by phone. What a concept!

CRAIG> Hokey Smokes, you're right! I completely forgot about the dialogue in #5 (knew I should have referenced that), and was in such a "scan" mood I totally missed the dialogue here. Thanks!

****The smartphone floats out.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 6:41:37 pm EDT from 174.243.147.202

Blaise > Wyvern is referred to as “he” and “him” a few times in issue 5 by Antiope and Lex, and again in issue 6 by Lex.

Very interesting thoughts on “Long Way to Morning,” the “curse,” and Hudson.
Craig
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 6:03:41 pm EDT from 107.122.189.83

****Blaise flies back in.****

SHOOT! I was in such a hurry I forgot the SPOILER tags! I apologize to the Room!

Everyone who hasn't read DARK AGES #6 yet, please skip over the bright red wall of text!

*sigh* I like the old comment room, but I would love to be able to go back and fix mistakes like this.

Sorry, everyone. I'll try to be more careful next time.

****Blaise dashes out of the Room.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 3:55:31 pm EDT from 45.48.54.221

****A whirlwind bursts into the Room. When it stops spinning, Blaise is left standing in its place (and looking very dizzy).****
So much to get done today, but there's so much to talk about and I'm already a week behind on talking about the comic, so here we go:

VOICES FROM THE EYRIE: SHADOWS OF THE PAST> Always love listening to this, and was glad to hear Mallory Reaves on the show. They even brought up the 2006 Gathering of the Gargoyles where she played Puck in the radio play presentation of "The Mirror." However, they mentioned Crispin Freeman playing Broadway, but that was the one radio play he participated in where he *didn't* play Broadway and instead played Hudson. I remember this because *I* got to play Broadway that year! :-D
So "Shadows of the Past" first aired on Thanksgiving! Right, I had forgotten that, but it explains why I remember my first glimpse of it being sneaking up to the room in my Grandmother's house to briefly turn on the TV and seeing just a glimpse of it before having to return to the dining room (I was taping it at home, a practice I had to get into since it was usually airing during my last class of the day at high school).


THE PLEDGE> Time for the final part of the “Gargoyles: Dark Ages: Alliance” mini-series!

So...there’s a dragon coming, and he is NOT happy.
(Actually, something that just occurred to me: did we ever get confirmation of Wyvern’s sex/gender? I’ve been assuming male (mostly because I cast a male voice in my head) but it occurs to me that I cannot recall anything definitive on that. However, I know the GargWiki uses “he/him” pronouns, so I will use them here.)
Before we even see the dragon, though, we get a few quick scenes just before. A couple items of note:
* Shahrizad shepherding kids (Nicolas and Mary, I think) and telling them to get ready to run. Sure, she’s someone high up in an ominous secret society, but she still thinks of the children!
* As the gargoyles take to the sky, Mentor shouts out a variation of an old line: “Sure as we breathe the air, we must protect the castle--and everyone upon this hill!” I do believe this is the origin of that phrase (and why it’s so old hat to the Trio in “Reawakening”: they’ve been hearing it since they were kids).

We get a great 2-page spread of the clan confronting the dragon in the air, and at least trying (and failing) to talk him out of fighting. I notice that it seems Wyvern’s pupils are visible even while his eyes are glowing (and that he refers to himself in the third person, complete with a “the” definite article). While the gargoyles try to talk down their..."patron," I guess (they clearly hold the dragon in reverence), the humans below prepare arrows. And Captain Robbie asks his friend, Prince Malcolm, if he’s seen Robbie’s daughter, Alesand.

Speaking of that wayward daughter, she is with Antiope in the caves. They hear a noise and little Antiope is determined to protect “friend Alesand.” Now, I find this interesting because Antiope doesn’t just refer to her by name but adds “friend” first. This reminds me of the dialogue in “Awakening” part one where Tom asks, “But what do you call each other” and Caesar/Brooklyn responds, “Friend.” I don’t know if that’s what Greg had in mind, but I find it a fun and fascinating little touch (wonky comma placement aside). Thankfully, the only danger coming toward them is the Trio. The bad news, though, is that the dragon is on the way to attack the castle. Alesand is concerned about her father and says they have to warn the castle. While dubious about getting to the castle before the large, flying, fire-breathing dragon, Antiope says they can at least try. As they make their way back out of the caves, however, the figure of Angel appears to mark their exit.

Back in the sky, Mentor is still trying to talk down Wyvern, pointing out that the alliance is working and that gargoyles can’t stay apart from humans forever, even quoting the late Verity’s line (and future Goliath’s statement) about human problems becoming gargoyles problems. Wyvern, with an almost surprised look on his face, responds that “human problems do *not* become stone-flesh problems...for humans *ARE* the problem!” I don’t know what happened in the past to make Wyvern think this way, but he certainly seems to think the best way to solve this particular “problem” is to set it on fire now. Off to the side, Shahrizad is chastising Malvolio and Benvolio for just standing there striking a pose by Chomp and Chaw instead of helping her alongside Mack Kemp to get the children (now joined by Schnozz and the young Magus) to safety. Shahrizad is even carrying General Bones to make sure the dog is safe. I already liked Shari well enough and was intrigued by her as a character, but her actions here as Shahrizad make me like and respect her as a person, too. I wonder how much of this survived the next millennium.
At any rate, Robbie and his men regroup while Prince Malcolm calls on the Archmage (is this the first time anybody calls him that in this series?) to do something. The Archmage says he needs to wait for the right moment since he’ll only get one chance, and when Malcolm calls him out on whether that’s just “strategy or self-preservation” the mage is refreshingly honest when he admits “Both.”

Far away, Alesand and the quartet see that they’re too late but resolve to help anyway (though, as Caesar points out, there’s still the question of “HOW?”). Mentor, however, can’t ignore the dragon’s offensive any longer and gives the order to attack. And can I just say...this 2-page panel *really* shows just how huge Wyvern really is! The gargoyles are like bugs to him! For the dragon’s part, he is starting to become less reluctant to hurt the gargoyles...

Robbie’s archers fire arrows at the dragon! But they just shatter on his strong chest/abdominal scales, so Malcolm tells the men to focus on putting out the fires. Wyvern then acts, if I’m being honest, a little petty and reductive here, belittling the humans as not “fierce warriors” and, by implication, therefore not worthy of loyalty or alliance. Hey, Wyvern? I thought your argument was that humans were “the problem” not that they were weak. Which is it? Of course, humans are whatever he needs them to be to make his point.

But his crowing was a bit premature as the Archmage now casts his Lightning spell (we all have our favorites) and scores a direct hit at Wyvern’s left eye!
(Yeah, count me as another person wondering what this universe, or at least Greg Weisman, has against left eyes.)
What results is a scar similar to what Mentor/Hudson will pick-up in 13 or so years, also from the Archmage. I suppose this could be “fan service” (and I don’t mind it if it is), but I think this is more than that. For one thing, it confirms in the canon material that magic (or at least magic lightning) can scar “stone-flesh” in this way. And for another, I think it adds an extra element to Mentor’s later scaring and decision to step down, but I’ll get to why I think that a little later.

Of course, a scar is not the only thing that results from the lightning--Wyvern gets even madder and hawks up fire at the Archmage. And the Archmage does the worst thing he can do in that situation: he freezes. And his life doesn’t flash before his eyes because he’s too terrified to think. All he can do is freeze and pull a stupid face (actually, his “Oh Crap” face is great, kudos Drew Moss--this is just an extended movie reference; anyone who recognizes it gets a “No Prize”!). Thankfully (or not), Malcolm tackles him out of the way. The Archmage is, seemingly, appropriately grateful, but the Prince says he was just performing his duty to save a loyal subject and to “never think on it.” No, Malcolm! Save that for future use with this guy!

Back to the cave and the dragon’s treasure hoard. Angel has arrived with a torch and looks at the treasure through a special lens (did the Archmage give that to her?). Through it, she seems to see something glowing in the treasure just to the right of a cup or grail (but not the Holy Grail!) She digs there and finds...a flute (I love her expression as she looks at it, “Really?”). Yeah, we remember Oberon conjuring something similar in “The Gathering” part one and stating that it had been crafted by Puck, so we know flutes can be significant. I don’t know for sure if this is the same flute, but it is important if the Archmage wants it. It could even be one of the three New Keys to Power coming up in "Gargoyles: Quest". At any rate she takes it and leaves, after which two new treasure hunters arrive: the Player King (PK) and Player Queen (PQ). And the PQ seems to be emitting light herself instead of using a torch like Angel (did she cast a Light cantrip on herself?--okay, okay, that's my last (knowing) D&D reference for this ramble!).

Back to the dragon fight. Hyppolyta and Goliath ram Wyvern’s face from both sides, and the future Cold-Trio land on the dragon (the belly scales, it looks like?) to dig in their claws and rip out the “armor,” which does look very stone-like here, but I don’t think it is actual stone. And I just want to say, I am always immediately intrigued when I see enemies or rivals working together for a common purpose. Hyppolyta may hate Goliath’s guts and Iago is no friend to Othello or Desdemona, but if the only interactions you saw among them were here, you wouldn’t know that. For once Hyppolyta and Goliath are on the same page and even Iago and Othello are in sync. And all of this manages to hurt Wyvern, though the final blow from Mentor and Lefty is what causes him to break one of his canine teeth, something that will take decades to repair, according to him. And from Wyvern’s final line of “You should live so long” it looks like the dragon is about to stop holding back...

Returning to the treasure hoard, the PQ and PK are looking for something that they know the dragon stole, but the PK seems to notice something else. Before he says anything else, though, the PQ finds what they are looking for: Excalibur! The PK is pleased, the PQ appears somewhat smug or satisfied, and the PK calls for Carbonek to open its gates, pretty much confirming beyond all doubt who these two are (at least to those of us that read the SLG comics). PQ mentions waiting for Shahrizad, but PK says “she’ll find her way back” and they can’t stay to risk the dragon recovering the sword. This is fascinating to me as we know that in the "modern" nights of the 1990's Shari is a 9 in the Illuminati--high ranking, yes, but outranked by as many as 36 other people--but here she is known and trusted enough to the leaders to have access to Cabonek. Even with revelations, more things about her remain a mystery. Anyway, as said leaders flee into the mists revealing Carbonek (is there an Avalon connection there, I wonder?) they are followed by Brother Valdez. I think the PK sensed Valdez’s presence in the first panel but got distracted by Exaclibur being found. Now, what could this monk have to do with Carbonek, the Illuminati, and all the various “-val-“s running around?

But at the battle, the dragon now senses that something has been taken from his hoard (even dropping the quote from the first page). More specifically he says, “Humans have stolen from my hoard!!” This stands out to me because Angel took something from the hoard first, but Wyvern apparently didn’t notice that. It was only when the PK and PQ took something that his “draggy-sense” tingled. This circumstance indicates one of several possibilities for the criteria of Wyvern noticing theft:
1) The *quality* of the *item*: The sword was more important than the flute, so he only noticed when the latter was taken. I don’t think this is the case as he seems very possessive of *every single one* of his treasures.
2) The *quantity* of items stolen: One thing stolen? Meh. Two things stolen? Warpath! I think this even less likely, as he seems very possessive of *all* of his treasures.
3) The *quality* of the *thief*: He can only sense when *humans* take something from his hoard. Angel, being “stone-flesh,” escapes his detection completely. This I think is the most likely scenario, especially with his line mentioned earlier. A metaphorical “blind spot” (to go with the now physical one).

At this point, Wyvern decides “F this” and leaves (probably to prevent the loss of anymore treasure). And, honestly, this is more or less how I saw the battle ending: not with the dragon defeated/slain (and certainly not with the humans and Castle Wyvern wiped out--that would create a paradox!), but with the dragon leaving for one reason or another. This dragon is a bit like Oberon in “The Gathering”: our heroes ultimately can’t beat him, only delay him and somehow get him to stop fighting and leave.

And leave he does, but not before cursing Mentor and the clan for distracting him. He leaves them to “keep their pledge with the humans” (title drop!) saying that “time will reveal the great benefit it brings you” (so much sarcasm). Sadly, we know how the alliance ends (though it was a gargoyle that helped turn it into a full-on massacre...). And I find myself thinking back to 984 and Mentor getting his left eye damaged by the Archmage. Wyvern’s curse adds an additional dimension to that scene for me in the same way that Demona’s time travel in “Vows” adds another dimension to her betrayal of the Castle and her clan. When Mentor found himself with the same scar as Wyvern at that time, did his mind recall Wyvern’s curse of 13 years earlier? Did that contribute to his decision to step down as leader (or “Rhydderch”) in hopes of ducking any more of the curse?

For now, though, all is well! The dragon has left, no one died (always great) and the clan gets reunited with those members who were curiously missing, i.e. Angel and the quartet (and Alesand). I love Goliath’s “My Angel--“ being cut off by Hyppolyta’s indignant “Where *were* you?!” as Angel arrives. Thankfully for Angel, she is spared from answering as the children arrive. Goliath’s smile as he asks “But where have you been” makes me wonder if he knows they were up to mischief (though not necessarily “dragon-waking” mischief), or if he’s just happy everyone’s OK. The kids for their part try to duck responsibility with Antiope and Caesar saying they were just “exploring,” though Alesand appears to look guilty about it (or just worried about being in trouble). Lex actually appears to be smiling, though. I wonder why. Is it because he finally learned to keep his mouth shut? Robbie appears and lifts his daughter into his arms, and while he’s happy to see her he wasn’t as happy to be so worried about her. But he tamps that down to instead say that he’s glad she found new friends among the gargoyle children. And Alesand and Antiope share a look.

Mentor and Malcolm discuss events and decide that this proves their alliance sound, and the line “That’s a verity” is spoken again.
We get a montage of various scenes for the rest of the night and through next day:
* Lefty helping a human mason lay stones (yeah, I find myself wondering if I should recognize this guy as he has a very distinctive design);
* Angel turning the flute over to the Archmage;
* Othello, Goliath and Hyppolyta gliding over the construction site;
* Sacrifice and Desdemona (at least I think it’s them) meditating on a hilltop;
* Mentor on a cliff with the image of Verity looking on;
* Robbie and some guards walking the newly constructed battlements as the gargoyles sleep;
* And come the next night, Alesand dragging her new BFF Antiope to something...

It is Shahrizad telling one final story (the story beginning on the very next page) with all the gargoyles and humans (or at least all the named ones and a few extras) present. Feels like a sort of “curtain call” to me here. Some nice touches like Goliath and Othello having their arms around their future mates, and who I believe to be little Mary looking at Nicolas. And a little bit of text in the corner: “Never the end...”

Speaking of the story, we finish out “Once Upon a Time There were Three Brothers” (finally all in canon print after so many years!). We old guards know how it goes, but it is nice to see some of the reactions of Malcolm and Robbie (and Othello to Shahrizad’s description of him), and some of Alesand’s text about the DRAGON (she must have a very good memory, actually, to write all this down as accurately as she does some time after the fact). And of course, the final line from Shahrizad, “no good story ever truly ends” feels like a nice little capper to this series. And also a bit like Greg talking to the folks who complain about his shows ending on “cliffhangers.” ;-)

For my part, I enjoyed “Dark Ages: Alliance”. It’s great seeing some of the backstory of the clan, the characters we’ve heard about (and many we haven’t) finally appearing, and some more lore. Structure wise, it does feel like two halves with 1-3 being one full story with a teaser at the end and 4-6 being the next “episode,” if you will. I don’t particularly mind that. I might have liked a “flash-forward” at the end to Hudson in 1997 Manhattan just for a bookend, but I’m fine with Shahrizad telling the final part of the story.

But this is only the first story of “Gargoyles: Dark Ages" (the premiere, if you will) and I hope there are more in the future.


OK, that's it from me for now. Looking forward to "Gargoyles: Here in Manhattan" issue #12 next week!
****Blaise takes a deep breath and starts to spin again, becoming a whirlwind and blowing out of the Room.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 3:52:22 pm EDT from 45.48.54.221

Todd: [SPOILER] Guess I wasn't that clear -- I meant that as a fan you naturally connected those dots before any of us. It's a credit to how well-versed you are with so many of Gargoyles' source materials.

I have not seen/read Henry VI, Part One yet, so I also appreciate the Shakespearean connection to Duff's death. :--) [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 12:59:35 pm EDT from 68.2.64.232

PHOENICIAN - That's an intriguing theory about the mace - and I can certainly imagine Demona being eager to use it to smash petrified humans in order to make the revenge all the more effective.

[SPOILER] I also enjoyed your comments on the death of King Duff - though I can't take any credit with helping Greg Weisman for researching it. I did know about King Duff through the source material for Shakespeare's "Macbeth", of course, long before "Gargoyles" came out. (Uther wasn't the only figure in history or legend who went into battle in a litter because of ill-health. Shakespeare even included such a moment in one of his early plays, "Henry VI Part One", where the Duke of Bedford goes into his final battle with the French in a litter as well, though alluding to the original story: "for once I read,/ That stout Pendragon, in his litter, sick,/ Came to the field, and vanquished his foes".) [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 9:12:28 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Ed > For some reason, it seems like kids' cartoons in that era liked to just air all the episodes back-to-back at the beginning of the season, and then rerun them endlessly. I have no idea why that was. This is more obvious with Saturday morning cartoons...for instance, look at the airdates for Gummi Bears. Every season, the episodes all air one week after the other, and the season is over by November or December. Same is mostly true of Goliath Chronicles, except for the final two episodes airing in February. The weekday shows tended to be SOMEWHAT more spaced out, with some straggler episodes typically airing up to February, sometimes as late as May...but I assume that was less by choice and more because of the scheduling realities of working on a 65-episode season (the same sort of issues Gargoyles ran into). Maybe Sweeps periods were less important for kids' shows? You make a good point, that the toy companies might have been more concerned with maximum viewership in the buildup to Christmas...hmm.
Craig
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 2:33:04 am EDT from 24.46.161.62

Phoenician: That's GENIUS. Oh man, such a good link.

Craig: The only possible rationale I can imagine is that if you air a strong new episode at Thanksgiving when different people are watching (family and friends in the house at the same time) you stand to hook in different viewers and then if there aren't many episodes, they can still be shown as-new to most audiences during the repeats. But I doubt this was the rationale - sounds more like it just wasn't thought through.

I've never really paid much attention to the original airdates but it seems strange they wanted to cluster them so close to the beginning. I don't know if sweeps were a thing in the animation market but I remember US television always used to centre around sweeps months and from the look of the date distribution, this would really have helped season 2. They could have had the first 20 episodes before Christmas ending with "The Price", "Avalon" through to "The Gathering" in Feb/Mar/Apr and the final 7 in May. I assume it's because the Sep-Dec window was where they made the most advertising revenue and stood to best promote their toys so perhaps they put all their effort into the autumn window and didn't worry so much about the rest of the year.
Ed
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 1:42:02 am EDT from 86.157.146.217

Voices: I'm sure I must have caught "Shadows of the Past" on repeat, because my oldest memory of it has no associations with Thanksgiving. I must have fallen off track by the time of the World Tour, but I do remember catching most of the episodes to at least fully appreciate "The Gathering" two-parter.

Ed: I mentioned this on the Voices' Patreon page, but I'll share it here -- I've never been too bothered by the whole axe scene, since even as a kid, I figured THE mace was what Demona was wielding in "City of Stone". Much like the lower part of the castle, the mace couldn't logically still be near Wyvern Hill, because -- in my head -- Demona ran off with it at some point. Why she would take it would be worth its own story, but her twisted rationalization to exact the level of retribution seen in "City of Stone" seems consistent with her character.

I've been late on my thoughts for the last two issues of Dark Ages. So some random observations . . .

Dark Ages #5: [SPOILER]

I'm guessing the giant hamster wheel is supposed to lift something, given the pulley that crashes on the Trio afterwards, but its hard to tell on the splash page.

Peredur might have his suspicions about Brother Valdez, but his outburst in Spanish is either natural, or quite the commitment to character.

I admit that I wasn't expecting Alesand to be gliding with the rooklings so quickly, but I love every bit of it.

Also happy to see that Alexander is already reading. I would love to see how he managed that pre-Alliance. Definitely some peak curiosity and initiative.

I, too, wonder how Antiope knows/can sense that the Megalith Dance is a ghost-cage. Stories for another day.

It's not like Wyvern the dragon needed those regular-size steps to his hoard. So I am wondering who else has visited this chamber in the past. Ancestors of the Wyvern Clan?

Being a gargate is truly the surprise that compounds the dragon revelation even further. Things like the evidently always-glowing eyes and the different dynamics for his stone sleep (not to mention all the unique dragon aspects like fire-breathing) should make for some fun discussion at the Biology Panel this summer at CONvergence!

I am wondering if the pre-Shakespeare version of Othello was to give us an in-universe reason why Alesand may ultimately name the Coldtrio Othello, Desdemona, and Iago.

And then comes the part of the Three Brother's story that is perhaps my most favorite Easter egg I've ever read on the GargWiki. No doubt this was a bit of Todd's own research. So long story short, Duff's actual death in history is used by Shakespeare for Duncan's non-historical death in Macbeth, while Duff's death in "The Tale of Three Brothers" is simultaneously a flip to how Uther Pendragon supposedly faced a battle against Saxon invaders while ill on a litter. Except that Uther lived!

Shakespeare and Monmouth/Malory all tied up in one devastating assassination. [/SPOILER]

Dark Ages #6: [SPOILER]

After the Pitch cover art featuring Mentor and Prince Malcolm, I'm bummed we didn't get to see more -- notably the one pitch card with the dragon!

While the prose text has been a strong indication that Alesand lives for some time after this current arc, the cover quote featuring "A treasure has been taken . . ." and the Captain asking where his daughter was DID have me worried about Alesand again.

" . . for Humans ARE the problem!!" Again, dragon-tropes aside, I do wonder about Wyvern's past dynamics with both humans and gargoyles the last time he was awake. Can all his hoard be considered stolen, or could there have been offerings to the dragon, or bartering, or legit scavenging? These aren't nitpicks, just my own curiosities piqued for more stories from the Dark Ages or earlier!

Prince Malcolm calling out the Archmage's self-preservation and later saving his life are great moments. Quite the contrast to their next appearance thirteen years later in "Long Way to Morning".

Wyvern insisting on calling the gargoyles 'cousins' reminds me of Duncan's retort to Macbeth on Lunfanan Hill in 1040: "Yes, well, *some* cousins are not that close . . ."

Puck's flute is certainly intriguing, if only because I am curious if Oberon's non-interference law is in effect in 971. The Third Race doesn't get banished until 995, but searching through the archives and it is not so clear-cut.

Fleur glows! I have no idea if this is just something she can do, or if its related to her finding the stolen Excalibur, I don't know. She does look to be glowing even after handing over the sword to Peredur, so maybe its just her thing.

For what its worth, after Valmont and Valois, Valdez is the first to be tied to Castle Carbonek.

I like how, perhaps because the castle isn't complete yet or because the symbiotic relationship is still in its early days, that the gargoyles aren't sleeping on the castle parapet walls yet. The Captain and his men have to walk around them for the time being.

And then our Never the End gets an assist from Shahrizad herself. And after getting a chance to see other corners of the Gargoyles Universe with this miniseries and Bad Guys, I do hope we get to explore much more in the year(s) to come :--) [/SPOILER]

Looking forward to next week's Equinox as we celebrate the last issue of Here in Manhattan!!
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Sat, Mar 16, 2024 12:41:25 am EDT from 44.195.89.143

I wonder why they even aired the episode on Thanksgiving. Inevitably, viewership would be much lower than on an average day. Why not air a rerun and show "Shadows" the following week? Especially since they were running dry on new episodes at that point due to the production backlog. It makes zero sense to burn a precious new episode on a day when fewer people would be watching.
Craig
posted @ Fri, Mar 15, 2024 8:51:26 pm EDT from 24.46.160.182

I know I got to see "Shadows of the Past" without any difficulty, the first time it aired, so Thanksgiving dinner preparations clearly didn't interfere with it. (I'd forgotten that it first aired on Thanksgiving, in fact, until I heard the podcast.)

The podcast also revealed that they considered (but wound up not doing) World Tour episodes set in Korea and Xanadu (I think we can all guess what the subject of those episodes would have been), and another set in Shambhala (which got hinted at at the end of the story about Coldstone in the Himalayas).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Mar 15, 2024 8:29:39 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

FTMB> I just doublechecked Dark Ages #3, and Goliath's exact words were "Not a man within perished by the flame".

Interprete that as you will.
Algae
'Nuff said.
posted @ Fri, Mar 15, 2024 4:21:51 pm EDT from 86.45.213.89

Great to have 'Voices' back - and with another terrific guest as well. Particularly interesting to hear about the use of light on the character models - I'd never considered that before but it makes the animation so much more impactful.

I also love that Greg, after 27 years, can be direct about instantly knowing there was a dragon in Wyvern Hill.

Also Greg's regret about the axe does make me wonder... knowing his "waste nothing" approach... whatever did happen to Hakon's mace?

Excellent work as ever, everyone.
Ed
posted @ Fri, Mar 15, 2024 4:07:11 pm EDT from 86.157.146.217

Beware the Ides of March.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Mar 15, 2024 8:42:18 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Another very good podcast. It never ceases to amaze me how every guest is so articulate and entertaining. Mallory Reaves is a joy and provides a truly unique perspective.

Like Bishansky, I have very specific memories of watching "Shadows of the Past" for the first time on Thanksgiving Day. My family was celebrating the holiday at my aunt's, and for me, there was no chance of sneaking off to watch live. I had my home VCR set up to tape the show every day (those tapes are probably still somewhere buried in my parents' attic), so I knew the episode was waiting for me when we got home...hopefully. Given the very real possibilities of electrical failures, equipment malfunctions, etc., in that analog era, I was always super paranoid when I couldn't watch the show live. I think we probably got home around 11pm, and I managed to convince my parents to let me stay up and watch the show. Viewing it at that late hour, in the dark with the volume very low and my face pressed against the screen (because my sisters had been put to bed), added to the weirdness/creepiness of the episode, and it was immediately a favorite of mine. I also remember going to see Toy Story in the movie theater the following day, and coming home and watching "Shadows" again on tape immediately after because I'd loved it so much. Great times.
Craig
posted @ Fri, Mar 15, 2024 6:12:33 am EDT from 24.46.161.118

Random question, but what do folks think happened to Constantine III wetnurse? In Dark Ages 2, Goliath confirmed everyone died before they burned the whole place down, but what happened to C's wetnurse? Would the Gargs have killed her too? I ask bc Mary as Midwife gets SO ignored in present day, it was really highlighted in the comic.
Ftmb
posted @ Thu, Mar 14, 2024 11:07:12 pm EDT from 100.36.132.121

Oh, and "Voices from the Eyrie" has just come out with a podcast on "Shadows of the Past" (featuring as guests not only Greg Weisman, but Mallory Reeves, Michael and Brynne's daughter, who has a few great stories about being a kid when her parents were writing for "Gargoyles"). The timing feels all the more appropriate in light of one of the subjects of the last two issues of "Dark Ages".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Mar 14, 2024 9:53:16 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

MATTHEW - [SPOILER] Interesting theory about Wyvern's fate. The one thing that makes me doubtful about it is that the teasers for "Gargoyle Quest" suggest that he'll still be alive, to play some role in the story (which is present-day). Of course, the teasers have occasionally been inaccurate, so we don't know for certain. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Mar 14, 2024 7:53:09 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Interesting video, Jurgan. I wouldn't have thought about doing a tier list on Gargoyles' episodes. Mostly because the lack of filler and huge amount of interconnectivity means none of them can be skipped.

Also, a thought I've been mulling over. [SPOILER] This was probably brought up earlier, but I have this notion that the Illuminati is going to be responsible for killing the Wyvern, most likely with the newly acquired Excalibur. I'm actually expecting some reluctance on their part on killing him as he's probably one of the last dragons in existence but the dragon's wrath and inability to let the theft go leaves them no other option. This would play a part in the decision to hide Excalibur in the stone dragon statue later on, to honor their late adversary. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Mar 14, 2024 4:39:06 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Jurgan> Good video! Me binging the show sadly made a lot of things blend together. I'm definitely gonna take notes like you did on my next rewatch, to differentiate the episodes better.
For the disagreements I might have, I will say that I'd probably put more of the World Tour episodes at more extreme ends of the tier list. Some episodes I absolutely love, but a lot of them I really didn't like at all. Some of my dislike for the later episodes in the arc may be from fatigue though.
Perhaps we could see a video from you about the comics in the future?
Anonymous
posted @ Thu, Mar 14, 2024 5:18:23 am EDT from 208.102.156.56

Thanks! I did not expect to give Reawakening an S, but I was impressed on rewatching how it managed to balance the large cast. Pretty much everyone got at least one memorable moment.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 13, 2024 2:48:49 pm EDT from 73.98.83.249

Jurgan> Thanks for that. Always a bit weird to hear someone's actual voice after talking to them on forums for years. Ha. Anyway, great job. I largely agree with your rankings. Nothing I'd move more than one tier up or down. Glad you gave my favorite episode, "Reawakening", an S ranking!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Wed, Mar 13, 2024 1:14:13 pm EDT from 204.184.178.1

Had to reupload my tier list vid because of a technical error, new link is here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgUdRFuJbDk
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 13, 2024 8:28:25 am EDT from 73.98.83.249

Todd > [SPOILER]
Great point. Although the gargoyles do have a fierce sense of possessiveness embedded in their DNA in one sense: the territorial protection of home. Of course, that's a much more practical type of possession, one related to basic comfort and safety, as opposed to hoarding gold and chalices and the like. And, of course, we see in Dark Ages their generous willingness to share even that home with the humans, albeit some of the clan members more comfortable with it than others.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 9:27:04 pm EDT from 24.46.162.129

A thought of my own about the last two issues of "Dark Ages".

[SPOILER] Wyvern the Dragon regards humans with hatred and suspicion, while seeing the gargoyles as kinsfolk (if kinsfolk that he perceives as behaving foolishly in making and keeping an alliance with humans). But in one major way, he has more in common with humans than with gargoyles: his hoard. Gargoyles have little or no interest in material wealth and riches - Thailog being the main example, thanks to being trained by Xanatos - a desire for them being far more a human trait. And Wyvern, in his great hoard (and we know that at least one object in it - Excalibur - he stole) and determination to keep it, is acting more like a human than like a gargoyle in that regard - though it probably wouldn't be a good idea to mention that to his face. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 7:55:33 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Fifth.

Thoughts on Dark Ages: [SPOILER]
Overall, I liked the first half a lot better than the second. There was a lot of lore dumping in the last three issues while the actual story felt a bit rushed. A dragon shows up, they fight it, then it runs away when its treasure is stolen. The Archmage blinding the dragon in one eye feels like obvious fanservice, I guess you can argue it was just a move he really liked but it felt like Greg saying "hey, get it, just like with Hudson, get it?" Also the Malcolm saves the Archmage who will later try to kill him. Someone pointed out recently that there are frequent moments in Gargoyles where heroes will show mercy only to have it backfire on them later. Of course, Archmage is still Malcolm's ally at this point, but this is the second time in this miniseries alone where a hero saves a future villain. I don't think we're meant to interpret Gargoyles as saying that mercy is a bad thing, but it happens so often that it's hard to read it any other way.

Excalibur was in the dragon's hoard. That's cool. It's the seed for future stories, but in this one it felt like it was a quick wrap-up that didn't connect to the rest. The dragon wasn't beaten and it wasn't convinced, it just ran away. Also, I'm going to admit this is incredibly churlish, but I was a bit disappointed that "The Lost Race" was just dragons. This is a good argument for Greg's current "no spoilers" rule. I liked the dragon in and of itself, but I had mentally built up The Lost Race as something radically different from anything we'd seen before, not just another type of "stoneflesh." It's completely unfair on my part, Greg never made any such promises, and yet 20 years of silence has built it up in my head. Probably the same thing will happen if Greg ever reveals what Titania whispered to Fox.

Anyway, Dark Ages is maybe a C tier story for the first half and a D in the second half. There's a lot of good stuff, I like the bits with the kids playing together, I just didn't think it held together as a story.
[/SPOILER]

Speaking of ratings, I decided recently to make a video giving tier rankings to every Gargoyles episode. I've seen this done for other shows on YouTube, and I thought this was a void that should be filled. It was fun and kind of informative to try to pick apart what works and what doesn't. I left a link in the comments if you want to make your own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkSjqTsXzDE
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 2:29:39 pm EDT from 73.98.83.249

Fourth. Happy daylight saving to those who mark it, and sympathy to those who curse it.

Hoping that everyone who needs to see it, saw it already, but the hotel blocks for Convergence opened last week. Details and links are on their site.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 10:32:44 am EDT from 99.74.15.252

Err... third.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 9:20:49 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

Second!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 9:20:26 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

We really ought to do something about these advertising bots.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 8:49:54 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Great post! We completely agree with everything you've mentioned.
Oliviya Jasper - [support at plumbingyeg dot com]
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 7:43:15 am EDT from 122.182.211.83

First! Excited for the issues this month!
Kate
posted @ Mon, Mar 11, 2024 3:40:23 am EDT from 208.102.156.56