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Comments for the week ending June 9, 2024

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Another new episode of My Adventures with Superman,[SPOILER] another example of not being able to get Eiling's name right. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Todd Jensen and Matthew> [SPOILER] I'm most familiar with the version of John Henry Irons from Superman & Lois. [/SPOILER]
B

>B: Yes! And it's very much in the spirit of Kirby's original works - Ukazu did a deep-dive read of Kirby's interviews and writings and drew almost exclusively from his comics. And she's talked about wanting to write an Orion-centric comic as well, and I really hope DC takes her up on that.
Karrin Blue

MATTHEW - [SPOILER] Thanks for sharing that with us - and I'd thought of John Henry as well when watching that. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen

Todd> [SPOILER] Well if a character named John Henry Irons didn't have a hammer it would seem fairly strange. Also fun fact: John Henry Irons aka Steel first appeared in 1994, same year as Gargoyles. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

To everybody here who watched the latest "My Adventures With Superman":

[SPOILER] It makes a pleasant change (for those of us who are familiar with "Gargoyles", at least) to see the person wielding a high-tech hammer be one of the heroes. [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Karrin Blue> Sounds interesting!
B

Today I received my copy of Ngozi Ukazu's new BARDA graphic novel, and I highly recommend it! It's a great comic about how Barda and Scott Free met and fell in love, with a cameo by our favorite Forager. And hopefully this is just the first from the author!
Karrin Blue

Todd Jensen> And the miniseries tended to have all-star casts. In addition to what I mentioned before, Whoopi Goldberg was in both Alice in Wonderland and The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns (playing a deity in the latter like she did in Captain Planet and the Planeteers and It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie), Alice in Wonderland had Robbie Coltrane, Ben Kingsley, Peter Ustinov, Christopher Lloyd and Gene Wilder, The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns had Colm Meaney, Zoë Wanamaker, Roger Daltrey, Harriet Slater, Randy Quaid and Tony Curran, The 10th Kingdom had Dianne Wiest, John Laroquette, Ann-Margret, Warwick Davis, Ed O'Neill and Camryn Manheim, and Arabian Nights had Rufus Sewell (who was also in Dark City), Vanessa-Mae, Jason Scott Lee, James Frain, Pik-Sen Lim, Andy Serkis, James Callis, Oded Fehr, Benedict Wong and Hugh Quarshie.

When Orla Brady appeared as Tasha Lem, the Papal Mainframe, in the Doctor Who 2013 Christmas Special "The Time of the Doctor", The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns was the only thing I'd seen her in before.

B

On the topic of Brooklyn and TimeDancer: The idea of Brook becoming a semi-mythic figure on account of his travels came into my mind as well (probably inspired by Doctor Who); it's a cool idea, although a bit limited by the fact that TimeDancer didn't exist as a concept while the tv show was being written, so there was no way to properly foreshadow it.

For example: knowing that, after the Massacre, Demona and Brooklyn met in 997 - plus an undetermined number of other times as well - doesn't impact in any way my viewing of Temptation, because I know that no part of the episode was written with that idea in mind; for the same reason, I'm not particularly interested in Puck commenting on Brooklyn's travels, because he's already met him lots of times (as Puck and Owen both) and has never said anything about it before, not even as a vague comment, so why would he start now?

Now, let me repeat that this is a cool idea, but IMO it'd be better to apply it to those immortal characters that haven't been introduced yet (or at least have had no on-screen interactions with Brooklyn yet); on that note, let's take a look at this old Ask Greg about possible recurring villains in TimeDancer (https://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1992):

"TimeDancer's trickier. I haven't fully decided if there's one over-riding villain. Caliban's a possibility. So's the Archmage-Plus, believe it or not. I have one story for him for sure. Then there's Constantine. And the Space-Spawn. Duval. Mab. Like I said, I haven't decided."

Rather than trying to retcon in some complex Brooklyn/Puck relationship that has absolutely no basis in the tv show, it'd be more interesting to see him through the eyes of characters like Caliban and Duval, because there you're actually allowed to build the relationship from scratch in a natural manner.

(Also: it'd be awesome if, when Mab finally frees herself, she started to destroy everything and bring chaos and do whatever floats her boat... and then she saw Brooklyn and started s**tting her pants; probably not gonna happen, but it'd be awesome.)

About the idea that Puck may have given Future Tense Brook his actual future clothes because he had seen them before... eh; I feel this explains one (1) thing while making everything else needlessly more complicated - because if you explain one of the Future Tense predictions, then you need to explain them all.

As Todd said: what about the Eyrie Pyramid? Did Brooklyn let that slip? Maybe... But what about the Clock Tower blowing up? Brentwood becoming evil? Delilah and Malibu getting together? Demona joining a resistance movement? Did Brooklyn let ALL OF THAT slip? Did he also give Puck a thorough description of Lexington's costume from the 1996 Halloween party, and it was so good that Puck just HAD to put the idea into his vision? Come on now.

IMO, trying to figure out how Puck "knew" all that stuff is a fundamentally bad idea: the reason Future Tense is getting all these echoes in the actual GargVerse is because it's a super-beloved story by the fans, and they love it when it gets echoes and references in the real world; it's too much of a meta idea to try and give it an actual in-universe explanation - might as well try to explain where the music is coming from.

CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!

BISHANSKY - Great observation - and a good explanation for how Puck got that detail right. (He left out the eyepatch, of course; either Brooklyn hadn't gotten it yet when he got the rest of the outfit, or Puck thought it might be too extreme - or too similar to Broadway getting blinded.)

I wonder whether Brooklyn let slip about the Eyrie Pyramid during that meeting with Puck, as well.

Todd Jensen

TODD> More proof that Brooklyn has met Puck during his TimeDancing. The outfit that Puck had Brooklyn wearing in "Future Tense". This wasn't Puck 'predicting' what Brooklyn would eventually wear; the trickster had already seen it. He was remembering the outfit.
Greg Bishansky

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DAVE - [niel at gmail dot com]
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MATT - Good thought. Brooklyn seems to have met Puck at least once during his Timedancing (in the story about how Xanatos and Demona met); they might have crossed paths more times than that. It'd be great to see Puck's comments on that.
Todd Jensen

Just a thought: Immortals must have an interesting view of Brooklyn as the Timedancer, particularly ones who encountered him multiple times over their lives. We know some of Demona's thoughts on this (though I'd love to know more!), but it must be interesting for them to live such long lives and randomly encounter this gargoyle (who may be younger than before and not even remember the previous encounter!). He probably has gained something of a mythic figure throughout time.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Thank you for these posts. They certainly provided some insightful observations. Your detailed analysis and thoughtful commentary have added significant value to the discussion. I appreciate the effort and depth you've brought to this topic.
About Us - [landbwaterservices at gmail dot com]

And the Unanswered Questions are back to normal to.
Antiyonder

I remember those mini-series as well (except for the "Arabian Nights" one). I recall adaptations of "Gulliver's Travels" and "The Odyssey", as well. (The latter got a comment here from one viewer, I recall, wishing that Goliath could have seriously reunited with Demona the way Odysseus did with Penelope. Which brought other comments pointing out, accurately, that Demona's readiness to blow Goliath away with the latest high-tech weaponry and wipe out humanity was a major obstacle to that.)
Todd Jensen

That's a relief. Since late last night, it was saying "wrong security code" for everything. I tried "Testing, Testing 123" earlier.

Todd Jensen> Yes, I thought the Mallory name was fitting too, and wondered if there was a relationship, but I guess not with them being spelled differently. I didn't think of what happened to Frik and Puck in connection to each other, since they happened for such different reasons, though the characters are not exactly dissimilar. I did think it was ironic that Mab stripping Frik of his powers meant he ultimately outlived her and the other faeries.

Speaking of the Merlin soundtrack, I went back to it on Youtube after mentioning it today, and was reminded of something I'd almost forgotten, that it's by Trevor Jones, composer of The Dark Crystal, Labyrinth (both the 1986 Jim Henson film with Jennifer Connelly and David Bowie *and* the unrelated 2012 miniseries of the same name based on the 2005 novel by Kate Mosse), and Dark City (which also had Jennifer Connelly), not to mention the 1989 Arthurian film Excalibur. Several parts of the score strongly remind me of Anne Dudley's soundtrack for the excellent and much-recommended 2000 miniseries The 10th Kingdom, which was on the same channel (and also had Rutger Hauer), so I have to wonder if she was inspired by Jones's work.

There were a number of fantasy miniseries on Hallmark around that time that I enjoyed, like the Arabian Nights one with our well-known Scheherazade (that's how they spelled it) as the main character, The Magical Legend of the Leprechauns, and the Alice in Wonderland one (that last also had Miranda Richardson and Martin Short).

B

Working yet?
B

Oh, and I found it amusing that the surname of the author of the mini-series novelization trilogy was "Mallory" - just one l more than Sir Thaoms's name.
Todd Jensen

B - Incidentally, did Frik's sentencing to be stripped of his powers remind you of Puck's fate in "The Gathering Part Two"? I know it reminded me of that.

[SPOILER] And you're correct about Merlin not being the only Arthurian element in "Unicorn: Warriors Eternal". [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Sorry for the triple post, but I keep going back over things in my thoughts after I've commented. Anyone who like Todd Jensen is into Arthuriana, that would be another reason to watch Unicorn: Warriors Eternal. It's part of the premise going into the show that the heroes were brought together by Merlin; it would be a spoiler to say more than that, but there is more than that.
B

The SFX stood out for the time. Or even after the time.
B

Todd Jensen> I'm glad; I already greatly enjoyed the miniseries (I was pleased to find the soundtrack on Youtube recently), but the novelization was so much more.
B

B - I've read the James Mallory Merlin trilogy as well; in fact, I still have it in my Arthurian collection, though it's been a while since I've last read it. Your post about it has encouraged me to look at it again, though. (One tidbit about it I remember was a partial timeline of the history of the Arthurian legend at the end.) And I've read "The Chronicles of Prydain" (and seen the Disney adaptation) as well; they were my introduction to Arawn (Lloyd Alexander himself admitted that he made Arawn much more malevolent than the original Welsh tales about him).

JURGAN - Thanks for sharing with us the story about your nephew (I recall you mentioning him and his interest in "Gargoyles" earlier; I'll have to look that post up).

Todd Jensen

Man, I wish I still had the energy to roar when I woke up.

But I'm glad your nephew enjoys the series and that Gargoyles is still resonating with a new generation.

Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Wish I could attend, but there's really no way we can afford it. Sigh...

Also, my almost five year old nephew wanted to "play Gargoyles" yesterday. They posted pictures of him posing like a statue and then roaring as he "woke up." His mother doesn't like sharing his pictures with strangers, but trust me, it was very cute. And it's nice to know that this thirty year old show connects with Gen Alpha.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Todd Jensen> Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising is wonderful. I also recommend the three-part novelization by James Mallory of the 1998 Merlin miniseries (starring Sam Neill as Merlin, Miranda Richardson as Mab and the Lady of the Lake, Isabella Rossellini as Nimue, Martin Short as Frik, Helena Bonham Carter as Morgan le Fay, Lena Headey as Guinevere, Rutger Hauer as Vortigern, James Earl Jones as the Rock of Ages, Billie Whitelaw as Ambrosia) which greatly expands on the televised version. It includes Herne the Hunter as an aspect of Mab's former consort Idath, who resembles Arawn from Celtic mythology - a name familiar to you if you've watched Disney's The Black Cauldron or read the Chronicles of Prydain books it was based on, though that version was villainized. Of course, Prydain/The Black Cauldron also has the three sisters. The Merlin novelization expounds that Mab is the only remaining aspect of a trinity: Titania (maiden), Mab-Morrigan (warrior) and Melusine (crone).
B

I will definitely be going to Convergence, though I have no idea what to expect, this being the first time that I've gone among Gargoyles fandom.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

I'd love to go to Convergence, but alas it's just out of reasonable driving distance... and I'm broke...
Kate

I doubt I'll be attending, but I wish everyone who's going well.

In late April, "Voices from the Eyrie" posted a question on their X/Twitter account for Shakespeare's birthday: what elements from Shakespeare's plays that haven't appeared yet in "Gargoyles" would you most like to see? At the time it appeared, [SPOILER] characters from "The Tempest" would have been at the top of my list, but "Gargoyle Quest" #2 has now done that with Prospero on stage, as well as Ariel and Caliban getting a mention. [/SPOILER]

We know that Greg Weisman's had plans for a long time to bring a well-known off-stage Shakespearean character, Queen Mab, into "Gargoyles". There's another well-known off-stage Shakespearean character who's struck me for a while as well-suited for "Gargoyles": Herne the Hunter from "The Merry Wives of Windsor".

The reason why Herne's now on the top of my list is his being a hunter, and the hunting theme that was prominent in "Gargoyles" (something that I noticed when I rewatched the series for its 25th anniversary, four and a half years ago). A notable hunting figure from legend (and who got into Shakespeare, particularly) feels very appropriate for "Gargoyles" at some point. Of course, there's one big question for including him: how to make him stand out from the other hunting figures in "Gargoyles"? (The Hunters from "City of Stone" and "Hunter's Moon" especially, but the Pack aren't far behind them.) I won't speculate on that at the moment, though I'll be making a post later this week (if people here are interested) about the hunting thread in "Gargoyles" and particularly the motives given gargoyle-hunters.

Here's the description of Herne from "The Merry Wives of Windsor":

There is an old tale goes that Herne the hunter,
Sometime a keeper here in Windsor Forest,
Doth all the winter-time, at still-midnight,
Walk round about an oak, with great ragg'd horns;
And there he blasts the tree, and takes the cattle,
And makes milch-kine yield blood, and shakes a chain
In a most hideous and dreadful manner.

This passage indicates that Herne was thought of by Shakespeare as a human ghost (like those of the Captain and Hakon), as opposed to a naturally otherworldly being (as some other takes of him have done; I particularly recommend Susan Cooper's "The Dark is Rising" as an example of these) - though that doesn't necessarily mean that he'd be a human ghost in the Gargoyles Universe. (Shakespeare also suggested that the Witches in "Macbeth" were human witches rather than the "goddesses of destiny" as his sources did - of course, "Gargoyles" took the "goddesses of destiny" approach.) His circling the tree in Windsor Forest (a real oak, by the way - though it was cut down during George III's reign; a replacement was planted in 1906) suggests that, if Herne was indeed a human ghost, he might be tethered to the oak, linked to it in a manner similar to the Captain and Hakon to the Archmage's cave in "Shadows of the Past" or Hakon to the battle-axe in "Vendettas". (If this is the case, then Herne would presumably have been banished once the oak tree was cut down, meaning that the most likely way for him to appear would be one of Brooklyn's Timedancing adventures.)

Todd Jensen

I also shall be attending, this is a big thing because my con experience has been reserved for my state before now. Plus I've never been to Minnesota so that's new.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

I will be attending for sure! This time alongside 3 other friends (including my roommate) from here in Hawai'i.

While I was too young to join the Gatherings in their heyday, CONvergence 2014 still remains one of the best experiences of my life, and I wouldn't miss a repeat for the world. Been planning and saving for this for well over a year.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If you run you gain one, but if you move forward you gain two." - Suletta Mercury

Not sure what happened to my name and avatar. Fixing it now before I forget again!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Second!

Finalizing some plans for Convergence. Who else is going this year? I know Bishansky and Pheon will be there. Anyone else?

Anonymous
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

First.

June brings tulips, lilies, roses,
Fills the children's hands with posies.

Sara Coleridge, "The Garden Year"

Todd Jensen