More important thing first: as a relative newcomer to the organized fandom--and I'm going to keep using that excuse as long as I can get away with it--I agree with Phoenician and Greg B. that the wiki is quite good. It has to be, after all: this story's universe is so wide, and its roots so deep, that it just about demands that depth of background to do it justice, and it does.

The same can be said of the Comment Room, which reminds me pleasantly of some of the old Usenet groups I was on years ago. The depth of knowledge here is just delightful, and my thanks to everyone (maybe even the bots, slightly) for making it what it is.

CarumboZabumbo: The read I've gotten more recently on that tenet is not so much that names are "silly human things," but more that the practice of using abstract names is the silly thing. I can kind of imagine, in the abstract, a novel that uses no names by referring to the characters more descriptively. On one hand, I wouldn't see this making a whole lot of sense to a human reader who's been brought up with the idea of people (and animals and lots of other things) having proper names. On the other hand, as one of many people who has intense difficulty remembering names, it makes total sense to tell a story with characters like "The Balding Swordsman with the Scarred Fingers" and "The Taxi Driver with the Ragged Voice." Culturally, it could be just as confounding for the gargoyles to have a story with a Harry and a Lois when those names mean nothing on their own: how am I supposed to know what a Harry looks like, or acts like, or is?

On the other hand, in how many stories does the Wicked Stepmother get a proper name?
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Jun 23, 2024 7:50:54 pm EDT from 99.74.15.252

You know, I've suddenly realized that this idea that names are just silly human things goes completely against another important tenet of the franchise - that being that books and reading are super-important; after all, how can you write a novel without using names? Or a history book without giving "names" to the years? Heck, the Gargoyles writers themselves tried to write a script without (a few) names, and Greg Weisman himself had to admit that it just wasn't doable (https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=99).

Just throwing that out there.
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Sun, Jun 23, 2024 3:16:34 pm EDT from 79.24.97.90

JURGAN - Yes, "36" is not just three dozens, but also six squared. So you could arrive at the number that way.

And I agree that the gargoyles would certainly find that kind of compartment of time puzzling (I've mentioned before the prospect of Goliath and Hudson musing over the humans marking specific points when one year ands and a new year begins - and to top it off, they're giving all the years numbers).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Jun 23, 2024 2:11:00 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Could be a shoutout, but it could also just be the resonance of dozens in the popular mind. After all, you just mentioned the twelve tribes of Israel. There's also the Babylonian timekeeping system that we still used today.
Robespierre tried to change that during the French Revolution, declaring 10 hours in a day, 10 days in a week, and 10 months in a year. After he lost his head most of those changes got reversed. I can't help think gargoyles would be bemused at our arguments over the names we give to something as natural as the passage of time.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sun, Jun 23, 2024 12:33:06 pm EDT from 97.182.109.253

Given all the "Star Trek" actors in "Gargoyles", it would certainly be appropriate. (The "36 eggs" part would certainly be a big coincidence, if it wasn't intended as a "Gargoyles" nod.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Jun 22, 2024 12:27:41 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Just watched an episode of "Star Trek Lower Decks" (Season 3, Episode 7) and got some Gargoyles vibes from it. Namely, the episode centered around some gargoyle-looking bird aliens. And at one point we are shown their rookery that contains exactly 36 eggs. I kinda doubt it was an intentional reference to Gargoyles, but the coincidence felt notable at least.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Sat, Jun 22, 2024 10:38:09 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

Sorry for the double post, but I remember Greg Weisman assisting with GargWiki at times. (Particularly the occasion where I'd written up an account of Jacob's story in the Book of Genesis for the entry on him, after he was introduced in the Stone of Destiny story. I mentioned his having twelve sons who became the ancestors of the twelve tribes of Israel; Greg added in their sister, Jacob's daughter, Dinah, commenting that she is too often forgotten - and he was right; she does get overlooked.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Jun 21, 2024 10:31:50 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Thanks for the link, Bishansky. Taking another look at it, I noticed the list I'd included in the introduction of various books on legends and early history connected to "Gargoyles" that I'd included for further reading. It ties in with one of the elements that most drew me to "Gargoyles", and why it still appeals to me.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Jun 21, 2024 9:02:34 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

TODD> "I'm glad that my initial "Guide to the Gargoyles Universe" played a part in founding GargWiki (of course, GargWiki has long-since outgrown it"

Hey, you gave us a LARGE jumping off point. There are so many other wikis out there which are so barebones; I sometimes wonder what GargWiki would look like had we not had you Guide to start with.

I was curious so I went and found the old guide. It's a terrific piece of work and I thank you for it: http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/grimorum/appendixb.htm

MATT> "Indeed, thanks all around. GargWiki was just the kind of thing I was wishing for when it arrived on the scene and I've been thrilled to contribute ever since."

It was at Gathering 2006, the "Hosting a Gathering" panel where somebody in the audience, we were discussing spreading the word about the convention; somebody suggested a wikipedia entry and then somebody else, I think it was Guardian, suggested a Gargoyles wiki. And then, lo and behold... we ran with the idea from there.

I am also glad it's an independent wiki and we didn't post it on wikia or fandom or another site like that. Not knocking them, but I like that GargWiki isn't covered with ads.

PHOENICIAN> "is that its trivia leans toward not just anecdotes from the production, but also the historical and the literary as well. There is so much I've come to learn from the show and the comics over the years, and I hope that any Real World Background section is adequately illuminating to anyone who peruses the wiki!"

Agreed on all counts, that's always been one of the main appeals of the place for me.

So the countdown to two-thousand entries begins!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Fri, Jun 21, 2024 8:01:49 am EDT from 67.189.200.184

PHOENICIAN - Thanks. I've heard about that feature of the main library in Phoenix, but I haven't ever been there (I've lived here for almost nine and a half years, but I've just been to the Cholla branch - the one that's within walking distance of my home). Congratulations on getting to visit it for the occasion.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jun 20, 2024 9:48:34 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

GargWiki: Big thanks to Matt, GregX, Todd, DTaina, and all those that frequent it :--)

Todd: I've shared this with others, but I do agree that one of the things that does make the GargWiki shine (apart from its lack of adverts, thank goodness) is that its trivia leans toward not just anecdotes from the production, but also the historical and the literary as well. There is so much I've come to learn from the show and the comics over the years, and I hope that any Real World Background section is adequately illuminating to anyone who peruses the wiki!

A happy Solstice by the way! Took the time to visit the main branch of my local library where the top floor 's architecture operates as a solar calendar marking Solar Noon on the day of the summer solstice. One of the individuals behind the construction of the building noted in his speech how our city's public library first opened, coincidentally, on the summer solstice in 1897. So to celebrate the summer solstice and the public library system in Phoenix was pretty fitting for a Gargoyles fan.
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Jun 20, 2024 9:40:18 pm EDT from 54.153.72.40

A side-note on "Golem" from last week. I mentioned a retelling of the Golem legend then that I thought of checking out from the library (if it had a copy), only to find out that it was strictly reference. In the course of looking through the local library's catalogue on the Golem, I discovered another book, a fiction book about a couple of kids who build a Golem in the present-day. It was only available in e-book format, so I haven't checked it out yet (I'm more at home with physical books), but I got a look at the opening pages in preview format, and noticed a mention in them of a painting called "Una and the Lion". The title amused me, given whom we meet just a couple of episodes after "Golem". (I looked it up and found out that it's a real painting, based on Edmund Spenser's "The Faerie Queene", where the heroine of the first part, Una, befriends a lion who serves as her protector for a while. Lions often appear in this role in Arthurian romance, by the way - and, as I've mentioned before, I have a theory about what that was based on in the Gargoyles Universe.) I wonder if anyone from the "Gargoyles" production team, when they were making "M.I.A.", had heard of that painting.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jun 20, 2024 9:32:30 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Indeed, thanks all around. GargWiki was just the kind of thing I was wishing for when it arrived on the scene and I've been thrilled to contribute ever since. I recall that the first new page I built was for "Demona's Second". Since then the page has been renamed to just "Second". And wow has that page grown and changed beyond my expectations. The GargWiki is such a great playground and resource for me and others. Love it and proud of our 1,500 enties! Never The End!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Thu, Jun 20, 2024 3:04:43 pm EDT from 47.233.90.133

Thanks for the thank you, Bishansky. I'm glad that my initial "Guide to the Gargoyles Universe" played a part in founding GargWiki (of course, GargWiki has long-since outgrown it - including incorporating the "making of" the series, as well as the Gargoyles Universe itself). I'm particularly delighted that GargWiki has continued to make use of the real-world history and legend incorporated into "Gargoyles" (something that played a major role in the "Guide" I wrote) - one of the recent entries was on Victor Hugo (including his comments on Shakespeare).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jun 20, 2024 1:45:54 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

A couple of days ago, the GargWiki finally hit 1,500 entries!

Here is the entry: https://gargwiki.net/Commemoration_of_Heroes

Thank you to Matt and Phoenician for the recent push to get us there. And thank you to everybody who has contributed to it over the last eighteen years (wow, it's been around that long?)! Thank you to Todd Jensen for getting the ball rolling with his old "Guide to the Gargoyles Universe" which we've built off of, and he's also contributed a lot more since then.

Thank you to D. Taina for the graphics!

Thank you to Gorebash and Scott Sakai for hosting it!

Thank you to the fandom for supporting it! We plan to keep adding to and updating it, of course. Speaking of, you should be seeing some new "Featured Pages" on the front page over the next few weeks.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Jun 20, 2024 12:20:43 pm EDT from 67.189.200.184

Happy Summer Solstice, everybody - when the gargoyles get their longest sleep of the year.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Jun 20, 2024 9:59:07 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

This is fantastic! It's great to have the opportunity to share various viewpoints and truly learn from them, potentially working together with other users. I'm excited to see more of this in the future. also check out
school fencing blacktown - [fgz22969 at ilebi dot com]
Fencing Blacktown
posted @ Wed, Jun 19, 2024 7:14:31 am EDT from 114.108.250.148

I mentioned a bit ago that the face on the barge looks a lot like Brother Valdez. The skiff face, less so. But I agree that they are probably meant to be the same person, and probably a male.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 8:39:27 pm EDT from 107.122.189.139

The face on the skiffs looked male, I recall, which makes it unlikely that it was Queen Mab.

And, yes, I do think that an artist's error is the best explanation for the face on the skiff in "Gargoyle Quest" being blank.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 7:48:13 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

MATT> "It appears that they were in fact summoned magically by the Magus. They are connected to Avalon in some way. Or maybe taking them to Avalon made them magically connected? Unclear. Other questions: Whose face is on the front of the skiff?"

It's a little difficult to tell, but I think the faces carved into the front of the skiffs are the same face on the front of the barge that the Weird Sisters "greeted" the Magus and co on in "Avalon Part One". If that's the case, then they must be from Avalon and the Magus likely summoned the skiffs.

As for who that face belongs to? My immediate thought was Queen Mab. But if Oberon overthrew her, I can't see him keeping her face up as a symbol (or maybe... he could have reasons that aren't occurring to me). Maybe it's the face of whomever Oberon's unrevealed father is or was. Maybe it's a face Oberon himself wore at some point, being a shapeshifter.

I hope we get to find out some day.

"And why does Jade and Turquesa's skiff look different? Could it be because the Gathering changed things somehow?"

I tend to chalk that up to the artist drawing it incorrectly; as Shari was drawn incorrectly. Don't get me wrong, I like the art. But hiccups happen. Look at Demona's wings on the last page of GQ2.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 10:49:35 am EDT from 67.189.200.184

Demona and Elisa> It should be noted that neither of those characters has any real desire to talk to the other. Demona hates Elisa because she is a human, she represents a flaw in her thinking, and her relationship with Goliath. Elisa sees Demona as a genocidal loose cannon who is particularly interested in killing her above all other humans. This is not fertile ground for a chat. Even given the opportunity that you suggest, I doubt there would be more conversation than what we've already seen. Demona will refuse to talk to Elisa altogether or just bad mouth her and humanity. Elisa will see absolutely no value in discussing anything with Demona. Elisa is smart enough to know that if anyone can get a sensible conversation with Demona it will be Goliath, Angela, or Hudson, not herself. Will they interact in the future? Certainly. Perhaps even very soon. But I can't see the two of them EVER having any sort of conversation that isn't full of distrust or threats.

Demona and Broadway> I have also noted that these characters have had no interaction really especially when it became clear that Broadway and Angela were becoming a couple. I was curious about Demona's thoughts on that and asked Greg about it years ago. I believe he said that Demona isn't a Broadway fan mostly just because he is allied against her, but she is not exactly rooting for Angela to be alone either. I suspect they will interact at some point, but again, Demona is not Broadway's problem to deal with. He would leave that to Angela or someone else.

Skiffs and World Tours> I think that unless we see otherwise, the skiffs sank at their final destination. Avalon has "decided" that that location is the final place that the riders need to be. So, Arthur might/ve gone a few places, but once he hit London, Avalon recognized it as his last stop and the skiff sank. I think when Macbeth left the skiff in Paris, it sank, and I think when Goliath and Co. arrived in Manhattan it sank. This is why Goliath felt that Avalon had released them from the journey. He was half right. They are done after this last stop.

Skiffs> I would like more clarification on the skiffs themselves. In "Avalon" we can assume they are just boats that Magus and Katharine found and took from Scotland and that the skiff were later used by Goliath, Arthur, and Demona/Macbeth. However, like Bishansky noted, it appears that they were in fact summoned magically by the Magus. They are connected to Avalon in some way. Or maybe taking them to Avalon made them magically connected? Unclear. Other questions: Whose face is on the front of the skiff? And why does Jade and Turquesa's skiff look different? Could it be because the Gathering changed things somehow? Very interesting.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 10:24:02 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

Demona and Elisa> It should be noted that neither of those characters has any real desire to talk to the other. Demona hates Elisa because she is a human, she represents a flaw in her thinking, and her relationship with Goliath. Elisa sees Demona as a genocidal loose cannon who is particularly interested in killing her above all other humans. This is not fertile ground for a chat. Even given the opportunity that you suggest, I doubt there would be more conversation than what we've already seen. Demona will refuse to talk to Elisa altogether or just bad mouth her and humanity. Elisa will see absolutely no value in discussing anything with Demona. Elisa is smart enough to know that if anyone can get a sensible conversation with Demona it will be Goliath, Angela, or Hudson, not herself. Will they interact in the future? Certainly. Perhaps even very soon. But I can't see the two of them EVER having any sort of conversation that isn't full of distrust or threats.

Demona and Broadway> I have also noted that these characters have had no interaction really especially when it became clear that Broadway and Angela were becoming a couple. I was curious about Demona's thoughts on that and asked Greg about it years ago. I believe he said that Demona isn't a Broadway fan mostly just because he is allied against her, but she is not exactly rooting for Angela to be alone either. I suspect they will interact at some point, but again, Demona is not Broadway's problem to deal with. He would leave that to Angela or someone else.

Skiffs and World Tours> I think that unless we see otherwise, the skiffs sank at their final destination. Avalon has "decided" that that location is the final place that the riders need to be. So, Arthur might/ve gone a few places, but once he hit London, Avalon recognized it as his last stop and the skiff sank. I think when Macbeth left the skiff in Paris, it sank, and I think when Goliath and Co. arrived in Manhattan it sank. This is why Goliath felt that Avalon had released them from the journey. He was half right. They are done after this last stop.

Skiffs> I would like more clarification on the skiffs themselves. In "Avalon" we can assume they are just boats that Magus and Katharine found and took from Scotland and that the skiff were later used by Goliath, Arthur, and Demona/Macbeth. However, like Bishansky noted, it appears that they were in fact summoned magically by the Magus. They are connected to Avalon in some way. Or maybe taking them to Avalon made them magically connected? Unclear. Other questions: Whose face is on the front of the skiff? And why does Jade and Turquesa's skiff look different? Could it be because the Gathering changed things somehow? Very interesting.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 10:24:02 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

"Thanks for pointing it out to me."
You're welcome.

"Not sure what you could really do to make up for the fact that they've just not had much time to really speak to each other."
I think it would be interesting to lock them in a room together, in a situation where Demona can't just immediately attack Elisa (because she's chained, she's wounded, she's in her human form, whatever) and just... have them talk for an entire issue. Have Elisa finally ask Demona "Why do you hate me so much?!" and, after some prodding, have Demona answer with something a bit more articulate than her standard "humans humans revenge revenge raargh raargh".

I don't expect this to ever actually happen, but I think it'd make for an interesting offbeat issue.
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 7:59:57 am EDT from 79.24.97.90

Carumbo> Good lord, I didn't know their interactions were that minimal. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Not sure what you could really do to make up for the fact that they've just not had much time to really speak to each other.
Kate
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 6:00:38 am EDT from 208.102.156.56

Kate: "Interesting thought about Broadway and Demona never directly interacting"
Thank you.

"I always noticed more that Demona and Elisa had very little interaction"
Yeah, me too, I'm pretty sure I noticed that one even as a kid.

"so much so that I can't immediately recall any of their scenes together."
I wrote an entire post on Reddit where I wondered if they should get more interactions (https://www.reddit.com/r/gargoyles/comments/1b1nfu8/should_elisa_and_demona_get_more_interactions/); I won't quote it in its entirety here, but it did feature a full list of Elisa and Demona's interactions (or, to be more exact, a full list of the times they've been in the same room):

1)Awakening Part Five: Elisa tackles Demona; they don't say a word to each other.
2)Long Way To Morning: Demona shoots Elisa, tells her a few words, and leaves.
3)Reawakening: Elisa arrives; before they can talk to each other, Xanatos takes Demona away.
4)The Mirror: they meet and even fight while Elisa is in Gargoyle form, but don't have an actual conversation.
5)City of Stone Parts Three & Four: Elisa is a statue while Demona is in the room.
6)High Noon: they have an actual conversation, but Demona is under partial mind control (and later forgets everything that happened here anyway).
7)Avalon Part Three: Demona is under mind control and later forgets everything.
8)Sanctuary: Elisa shoots Demona, but they don't talk to each other.
9)The Reckoning: they are in the same room, but Demona is unconscious.

As you can see, they've currently had either one actual conversation or no conversations at all, depending on how you count High Noon.
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Tue, Jun 18, 2024 5:04:01 am EDT from 79.24.97.90

Carumbo> Interesting thought about Broadway and Demona never directly interacting, makes me think back to when I saw people bring up that Jesse and Walt. Jr never once met in Breaking Bad.
I always noticed more that Demona and Elisa had very little interaction, so much so that I can't immediately recall any of their scenes together. You'd think we'd see more of them sparring in some way, considering Demona probably thinks that she stole Goliath from him.
Kate
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 10:54:45 pm EDT from 208.102.156.56

Alex: "I feel like aesthetically, purportedly, the power of Avalon's Will or some such is so nebulous that the whole thing could just be Tom and Goliath being incredibly superstitious."
Yeah... If you get down to it, "Avalon's will" is just there to explain (in-universe) why the World Tourists always end up in places where they can have adventures that last about twenty minutes; "Avalon's will" basically translates as "because the writers said so".

"it doesn't matter either way if Goliath and co. were rewarded with Manhattan and their journey was finished or if he just got home and decided to stop touring." Considering how big of a deal is made about their quest being fated ("I have my own destiny to face. I realize now that the hand of fate has guided us to every place we've gone on our journey. I must see it through to the end.") I'd argue that it is of the utmost importance if they fulfilled their quest or abandoned it halfway through.

Now, I think that by this point Greg's intention is that the quest was achieved, but the alternative, as you said yourself, is interesting to consider.

Todd: I don't think that Avalon decided to either go against or help out Oberon - because I don't think that Avalon has a "will", per se; it's fate that decides where you "need to be", and Avalon is just the means it uses to send you there (in the same way your car is technically taking you somewhere but you're the one actually driving it).

Now, how does fate actually decide this stuff (in-universe; out-of-universe, the answer is "the writers thought it'd be cool")? Dunno. It's basically the same kind of problem as "Where did the Archmage's plan actually originate?"
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 3:45:18 pm EDT from 79.24.97.90

MATTHEW - I remember in Season Two of "The Spectacular Spider-Man" Harry Osborne reading Prince Hal's "rejection of Falstaff" speech from "Henry IV Part Two" for the auditions scene, and thought from the start that it matched the drug addiction troubles he'd been having in Season One. There's the additional element of both Harrys having troubled relations with disapproving fathers, though the tone is different; Norman Osborne struck me as far less conscience-stricken than Henry IV (who wonders whether Prince Hal's madcap ways might be punishment for his seizing the crown).

On the ending of the Avalon World Tour: I've said this before, but - the part that strikes me most about Avalon sending Goliath to Manhattan in "The Gathering" was that it was thereby, in a sense, going up against Oberon, its ruler, by having Goliath oppose Oberon's attempt to kidnap Alex. (THough, given the likely trouble that would have ensued if Oberon had successfully taken Alex off to Avalon - there's no way Xanatos and Fox would have accepted that - Avalon was most likely acting in Oberon's best interests. Goliath himself admitted that it would save Oberon a lot of trouble if he let Alex be trained in Third Race magic in the human world.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 2:49:27 pm EDT from 163.116.139.115

Sorry, I should clarify: it doesn't matter either way if Goliath and co. were rewarded with Manhattan and their journey was finished or if he just got home and decided to stop touring.

Though the idea that Goliath wasn't there and something bad happened somewhere is kind of an interesting story.
Alex
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 12:13:02 pm EDT from 65.95.87.254

Eighth.

Jurgan (from last week)> I'm fine with some sort of survivalist quest, but the threat to their survival needs to be palatable and the desire to get home has to be strong. Both of those kind of go out the window when Halcyon is offering to put Goliath on a plane.

In terms of the Gathering -- I don't really think it makes much difference either way. I feel like aesthetically, purportedly, the power of Avalon's Will or some such is so nebulous that the whole thing could just be Tom and Goliath being incredibly superstitious. It'd be a hell of a coincidence, but this is where personifying Avalon in some way (even through visions of some kind) would have made it stronger. I don't think that's *necessary* mind you, but I think it would have added some momentum to an arc that feels a bit meandering.
Alex
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 12:11:45 pm EDT from 65.95.87.254

Seventh!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 10:38:41 am EDT from 67.189.200.184

Sixth!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 9:59:25 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

Fifth.

About the various skiffs: Oh sure, you're all here wondering about the (last) one the World Tourists used, but no one is asking the real question: what happened to Demona and Macbeth's skiff? Did Avalon consider Paris their final destination and so the skiff went back to the island? Did Macbeth keep it (the Timeline says that Demona awoke first and left him on the skiff)? Did he abandon it and now someone else has it?

Screw Titania's whisper to Fox, this is what all true Gargoyles fans want to know./s


On a completely different topic: I've realized to my surprise/mild shock, only a few days ago, that Broadway and Demona have never had any interactions in Canon (defined as "Broadway says something and Demona answers him, or vice versa") although, of course, they've been in the same room more than once. The closest thing to an interaction they've ever had happened, I think, in Awakening Part Four, when she reappears and Broadway, like all the others, wants to know how it happened - but she only gives a general answer rather than talk to him specifically ("I'll answer your questions later. It's just so good to see all of you again!").

Am I right about this? Or am I forgetting something? Help me out, please.
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 8:02:28 am EDT from 79.24.97.90

Regardless of their skiff's status, I imagine Avalon did release Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx from their quest. Just with a caveat.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 2:39:23 am EDT from 71.84.183.196

Over the past couple weeks there had been discussion over things like the Hunter archetype and how it showed up in Greg's works. This brought along the mention of Herne the Hunter from The Merry Wives of Windsor. But this got me thinking on something else.

In the second season of The Spectacular Spider-Man, Midtown High puts on a production of A Midsummer Night's Dream, and like so many high school productions, inspiration was found in there universe's real life. In this case the fairy Cobweb is modeled after Spider-Man and Puck takes cues from the Green Goblin (which might be an in-universe example of poor taste).

So where am I going with this? Well it got me thinking about Shakespeare's characters and how they might be indicative of Spider-Man's large cast of characters or vice-versa. Herne the Hunter would naturally be a stand-in for Kraven the Hunter. Falstaff, with his large size, cavorting with criminals and living off of stolen money could reference the Kingpin.

If anyone else has other connections in mind I'd love to read about them.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 2:21:15 am EDT from 135.180.3.149

Second!
Craig
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 1:26:32 am EDT from 166.198.21.137

First.
Kate
posted @ Mon, Jun 17, 2024 1:25:25 am EDT from 208.102.156.56