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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 7, 2024

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Day 4 1/2.

Errors and omissions.

It should be no secret that my stenography skills, skills which I really do not have, were put to an especially severe test this weekend. Just about everything was taken down longhand, and while I'm proud of my ability to write longhand quickly, there have been so many cases in the notes where I've had to summarize things severely, or try to reconstruct them from partial or borderline-illegible notations, or where I had to break a sentence early so I could catch the next one. Anything I've shown as a direct quote probably is, or is extremely close to, what was actually said. Anything else is, at best, an indirect quote, and more likely a summary or interpretation of what was said. I've done my best, and generally I think I have done well, but please don't hold my mistakes against anyone else. I hope it's a serviceable report in any case.

I am not aware of any particular errors or omissions in what I wrote, except for one. That's simply that I had no courage to walk up to anyone and try to get engaged with the community. The notes suffer a little lack of atmosphere for that. It is a continuing problem. It is probably a big part of the reason that I didn't show up here in the Comment Room, or anywhere else, until sometime last year, and watching the Gathering featurette today, and the audience reaction to it, really drives home what I have missed over about 29 years of fanning it on my own. Seriously, though, what the hell was I thinking? I don't expect to find an answer to that question, but I'm hoping to get more chances to meet again.

To Matthew, Phoenician, and Matt, deepest thanks for reaching out and keeping me from hiding in the corner the whole time. To anyone else on the Room who I didn't meet, sorry if I seemed at times to be cosplaying Creepy Internet Guy (that apology's directed at Greg Weisman too, sort of, if he happens to read it or telepathically pick it up or whatever). I really don't like to barge in on people, especially not people I don't know. Especially not with a notebook and pencil in hand.

I mentioned at the top of these reports that I went into Loring Park that first morning and they had these plaques with T.S. Eliot quoted on them. The one I quoted finished up:

"Through the unknown, remembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;
At the source of the longest river
The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple-tree
Not known, because not looked for
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea."

In a way, I suppose I'm finally looking, and I like what I'm finding.

In Minneapolis, for the Comment Room, this is morrand, signing off.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

Day 4.

This morning called for a long walk up across the Mississippi for breakfast, followed by a long walk back. The city lay quiet and still, other than the few joggers and their dogs out on taking advantage of the sunny morning. I spend about an hour in the room, reading. I fix a cup of coffee on the in-room coffee pot. It is Puck brand coffee, and I get a good chuckle at that. Wolfgang Puck, so that makes a bit more sense, but still.

10:30 AM. I take a perch on the balcony overlooking the lobby, what has become a favorite haunt of mine over the past couple of days, and the various con-goers who are preparing for departure, coffee in one hand, phone in another, bag of costume horns by their side in one case. A bunch of people are still in it, of course, their chains of badge ribbons hanging down to their knees.

I have made a stop in the merchandise room before it begins to close so that I can pick up something for home: a pint glass. The volunteer running the register greets me kindly and instantly when I step inside, and, seeing me near the shirts, starts to point out that those are the youth sizes as I pick up the glass. "Minnesota youths are more robust than I thought," I respond. I get away with this.

Now, down below me, among those hanging on to the end, I can see Phoenician and Greg Bishansky, and a few others I don't recognize. I don't go down to barge in on them, of course. This Minnesota youth was brought up not to barge in on other people's conversations.

The target for many of the holdovers is no doubt the uneuphoniously-named Greenway BCDE, where the doors are still closed. This will be Gargoyles Central today, more or less: three panels, back-to-back. A sort of a line begins to form, waiting to go inside. One or two of us finally peek in, and realize there is no need for the reticence: we are the first panel of the day. Someone finally pins the door open for the rest of us and the room starts to fill. Holding court up front, in a white coat, is Lucas McClain, insisting vigorously (and persuasively) that Anton Sevarius was a terrible scientist. This is reasonable, as the first session is on Gargoyles Biology and Culture.

Someone approaches the table with things for Greg to sign, as we are waiting for things to get underway. He quite graciously agrees to do so: "Does anyone have a Sharpie?" Someone does, and the autograph-seeker beams. We kick off right on time. (An editorial comment: Greg has been hitting the start times on the dot for his panels, or at least as many as I've been in. It's quite refreshing.)

Our panel today:
- Karine Charlebois, an early fan and artist on "Bad Guys" who had to figure out a few points of gargoyle anatomy for the sake of getting them right.

- Lucas "Brainiac" McClain, an early fan, lab manager at the University of Cincinatti for their neurology lab and expert worker with lab mice, who also runs the Gargoyle Nation Discord and will be speaking to genetics.

- Greg Weisman, who claims to know a thing or two.

- Chip Coffin, who has a background in cultural anthropology and archaeology, and has a strong interest in animals besides.

- Jim Kakalios, physics professor at the University of Minnesota, author of "Physics of Superheroes."

- Matt, whom I will let introduce himself or not.

Greg, as usual, has prepared absolutely nothing for the panel, but he suspects that the panelists have. Chip leads off with a theory involving a Permian-Triassic era creature that could well be the first gargate ancestor: it is a hexapod [not the word he used, but my pencil got dull fast and I cannot make it out -m] with its middle limbs being very wing-like. Lucas supports this notion, as emerging research shows six-limbed creatures may have been one of the earliest forms. There are cases where physical structures have disappeared and then reappeared in the course of evolution.

Matt had talked about the Permian as being a prime time to evolve stone sleep as well, based on how hot the environment was. This particular creature lived in the Permian and survived through it; it was also around in the Pangaea era, which would fit with the wide distribution of gargate forms.

Lucas then mentions the introduction of the dragon Wyvern to the scene, and a concern whether he is viable under the square-cube law. James jumps in to explain the concept, saying that a creature growing in size has to grow in all directions rather than as a flat sheet. (Greg mentions he is working on that himself, with a pat of his stomach, getting a good laugh.) James goes on to explain that this means growth is a balance between the growth in the creature's volume (roughly the cube of its dimensions), and thus its weight, against the area of the creature's bones and muscles and their ability to move and carry that weight. Matt then raises a question: whether Wyvern, with his great size, would be able to fly or glide? Greg ponders this, and discusses the history of the gargoyles being said to glide rather than fly (related, of course, to Kenner's helicopter) and the salutary consequences of that decision for story-telling. For Wyvern, it makes more sense for him to glide as well, although he probably has more leg (and tail) strength and therefore more launch capacity. James points out that, anatomically, back wings would be weaker: bird wings replace their arms, but gargoyle wings do not and don't get the full benefit of the [pectoral] muscles. Karine agrees. From a design standpoint, anatomically the wing is socketed into the shoulder, and this would prevent a full flapping motion of the wing. Matt points out the musculature also would prevent this. Lucas adds that, of course, the half-flapping motion also just looks cool, and that counts for a lot. Greg: I think we have the rules for Wyvern now. More strength, so he can launch into a glide from the ground, whereas gargoyles have to climb to get enough height to launch off.

Questions from the audience:

1: Goliath is about 6'-10" and above 400 pounds. Andre the Giant was a bit heavier than that, and eventually he got too big for the toilet. (The audience knows where this is going and begins to groan a bit.) Presumably, suitable toilets were built in the castle. What about the Clock Tower?
Lucas: One thing we expect is that stone sleep also serves a certain excretory function as sweating does in humans. As for anything else, we will not intrude on their privacy. It is also worth noting that Andre the Giant had a hormonal imbalance and was not built for the size he reached, whereas Goliath is. (Greg also expresses doubt that Goliath is as short as 6'-10".)

2: We know gargoyles mate for life, but it also seems they date like humans do. Is this a biological or cultural drive?
Chip: Courting and mating are not the same thing. Dating and courting are probably both similar to the human equivalent, and if the chemistry is not there for both the participants, they do not mate. Once they are both convinced, they mate, and that is for life.

3: Regarding the clan structure and the leader/second dynamic, in a small clan such as Manhattan, a family dynamic is at work as well. In a larger clan such as Knight's Spur, would you have a leader more like a tyrant? Is there a mechanism for regime change?
Greg: Yes, but the mechanism is revolution. The gargoyles can walk out if the clan does not respect them. [So in my notes; I think I got this wrong. -m] So for example in "Long Way to Morning," we have Mentor feeling his age and deciding to say, "it's time." It does not have to be a violent revolution, but a truly horrible leader may end up banished from the clan. Matt then asks: so is Coldstone rebelling? Greg answers that Coldstone is not in the same category as this, as he probably cannot step up and get others to convince Goliath to step down.

4: Regarding the glowing eyes: does this point to bioluminescence?
Chip: it is bioluminescence, and it is an intimidation tactic (and also temporarily blinds them when it happens). Lucas adds that, in most species, the "glowing eyes" phenomenon is a side effect of how the eye traps light, and many species come to instinctively regard glowing eyes as a sign that a predator is watching them; it is in this context that it evolved. Chip continues to mention that, given the beasts and Wyvern's steadily-glowing eyes, they probably get around more by scent. Lucas bets that Macbeth probably knows that the flare of the eyes is a moment of weakness, although he would never use it. A follow-up point: Demona may.

5: How much of the gargoyles' protective nature traces back to the eggs and their long gestation period?
Lucas: Nature vs. nurture is still a very active point of debate. Knowing the biology is important but behavior is, at best, a second-tier reaction. There always will be fluidity in a working neurology, and there has to be, so there is always a debate between the two. Gargates may have much more hard-wired into them, given their somewhat higher maturity at hatching compared to humans at birth (who are born with many more behaviors to learn than most animals). On the other hand, there is no reason it could not become corrupted, such as with Demona, or with Goliath under the influence of the Eye of Odin. Matt adds that creatures with few offspring tend to have a strong protective instinct, so this probably sprung from that. James adds that the same sort of instincts explain their mating for life, as a way to encourage protection of the eggs and young. Lucas adds that communal rearing may have come from very early times when things were more dangerous.

6: Why does Bronx have no wings?
Chip: Beasts don't. They may have had them once, and Greg has said that the beasts may have vestiges of wings in their skeletons. Lucas: if the beasts ended up having no need to fly, then they probably had their wings evolve out. [There was also a discussion of whether the wings may have evolved away as the beasts were domesticated, but I can't remember where to attribute that. -m]

7: Hudson speaks of three races, so where do dragons fit in?
Greg: From Hudson's view, there were three sentient races, plus one lost race, which is the dragons. For their part, dragons woud probably not accept being lumped in with gargates. The dragons are not completely lost, but they are almost gone.

8: Gargoyles mate for life, but then you have the Big Divorce. Was that a unique case?
Greg: It is a very unique case. There may have been rare exceptions, and Goliath/Demona is a rare situation (including her long life without him). It is not the only time that mates have separated, but it is exceptional. Rarer still is a gargoyle/human pairing. Not counting human Demona, Greg has only one more instance in mind (but the details are a spoiler). It would be more common for gargoyles to get involved with Oberon's Children, given their shape-shifting abilities. As was mentioned in the (silly) radio play, humans are actually somewhat unattractive to gargoyles. Chris has long suspected that wing shape could be a point of attractiveness for gargoyles. Greg says that humans and gargoyles have a lot of similarities, but he wants them to remain very distinct species.

9: We have never seen the Loch Ness clan yet. We know that Demona and Goliath can both hold their breaths for a very long time. Given the number of bays, lakes, etc. in the geography, did Scottish gargoyles develop to be a bit more aquatic?
Matt: We do see one very fish-like gargoyle on Avalon, and you can even see a lot of that in Broadway. Chip mentions yet another in Dark Ages. Matt suggests there has to be a connection. Lucas would hesitate to say that they are actually amphibians, since that is a whole other thing. Greg thinks the Loch Ness clan has evolved to be more aquatic, like puffins, and use their wings under water, but they are not fish and they are not water-breathing. He also mentions that he tries to make the characters make scientific sense, but then he depends on this panel to really nail it down. Karine adds that, often, they work to make the art look really good, and then the fans come up with explanations for it. Lucas mentions that humans are actually pretty well streamlined to work in water, and that's very weird.

10: Several gargoyles have distinct physical traits, but they are basically family. How frequent are cross-clan matings?
Matt: We know from Goliath that there were clans all over Scotland at one time, [and that would have facilitated more cross-clan contact. (my read -m)] Chip finds it interesting that Turquesa refers to Demona as her cousin in Quest. Matt continues to say that this could mean the aquatic gargoyle in Avalon does trace back to Loch Ness. Lucas explains that, biologically, we cannot say how much of a problem inbreeding is. Matt has done a study indicating that having about 30-40 eggs per generation would be enough to prevent inbreeding from being a problem. Lucas reiterates that, in biology, the argument about how much biodiversity is needed is a big debate.

11: Regarding religion, how much variation is allowed within gargoyle "religion" (i.e., spiritual beliefs)?
Greg: There is no Gargoyle Inquisition. (Laughter.) Faith is much lower in gargoyles than in humans. [So in notes, but I think I got this wrong too and he said rigor in faith is much lower. -m] For example, Second or Desdemona have a certain bent toward the spiritual, and what comes with this is some spiritual, historical, and ceremonial knowledge. But for others on the other end of the spectrum, there is no penalty: they may appreciate a Wind Ceremony more for the emotional than spiritual significance. This is largely down to Greg's own spiritual beliefs at the time the show was created, which were more pagan, e.g., the whole makes up the one. (His beliefs are now more animist, though the gargoyles' are not.) There is, in any case, no argument about religion since there is not a big debate and no enforcement; if they are pushing back, it's against the more structured elements.

12: What is one trait that the panel doesn't expect or want attached to the gargoyles?
Greg: Sorry, I got distracted by cheese. (Someone had been passing string cheese down the panel table.)
Lucas: I want them to be different from humans. I can think more about how they work that way.
Chip: I don't want human family units.
Greg: I had to course-correct Brooklyn, Katana, and Gnash over that. They had turned into a normal human family unit, so he made a point of Gnash being an exception (which he hates) and that Egwardo is going to be raised by the whole clan, including Elisa, so that readers do not misinterpret them as melting into human.
Matt asks: in being raised by the clan, what age are the clan parents? Greg answers that it is the generation of the parents even if the individuals have not, themselves, borne young. Thus Hudson would count as more of a grandfather at this point. Brooklyn considers Lexington, Broadway, and Angela as his generation, and therefore the parents of Egwardo. (This presents special problems in the case of Angela, but that is a whole weird thing.)

13: Looking at deviance, how would gargoyles classify crimes within the clan and handle them?
Greg: For certain crimes, banishment is the punishment, and for the gargoyles this is very harsh. You see this with Yama, and you also see Iago banished temporarily, and it hurts. If it were really bad, they could be killed; it is a harsh world. Demona poses a special problem, not just by her immortality, but what does banishment even mean in their current situation in Manhattan? Thus they try the human solution, which worked out well (sarcasm). Lucas adds that Iago may also be a deviant in another way in possibly divorcing.

14: In designing gargoyles, they have fingertips on their wings (like Brooklyn). Any others?
Karine: What I have seen is four fingers, four toes, so therefore four wing fingers, typically a thumb claw plus three wing fingers. (Lexington is a notable exception). Her own character is 2 and 2. The Japanese clans tend to have four fingers, some have three, but they are still distributed uniformly. Matt points out that the Japanese gargoyles tend to have more fingers in their wings. Lucas has a problem with Una, though, since she has hooves instead of feet. Greg mentions that multiples of four was the plan, with variations on how that was expressed. When Lexington was first designed, they gave him fingers on his center wing limb, but they dropped off once he went to the animators. Karine adds that Lexington's limbs are awkward to draw, since he cannot form a basic humanoid shape, whereas the others do.

15: Why do gargoyles turn to stone?
Greg: it's more of a biological stone-like substance (keratin-like, maybe). It evolved as a defense mechanism, which served well before the Iron Age.

16: In species that pair-bond, when humans raise them, they tend to fixate on humans and want to take them as mates. How about gargoyles?
Greg: Well, Avalon is a good test case for that, but from a story-telling standpoint he will stand on it being vanishingly rare for humans and gargoyles to mate. Lucas adds that humans have long since lost their seasonal mating habits, so they would not get the mating drive the same way. He would not be surprised to find that there are gargoyles who are asexual outside of heat, or indeed if that were commonplace.

17: Why make the females red-eyed?
Greg: Because Demona looked so cool that way, and therefore it was decided that females' eyes glow red. This actually made trouble during animation, as Greg has a red-green color deficiency, and kept calling out the animators for a coloring error that may not have actually been there. Lucas also suggests a difference in the biology of the bioluminescence, perhaps even related to brow ridge or horn sizes.

18: Robbie described stone sleep as a sanctity. Would the gargoyles themselves see it that way, spiritually?
Greg: They would not have taken Robbie's comment literally, but more as a statement of respect for them. Besides, they all sleep at the same time, so there is no need to consider sleep as a sanctity among themselves. [My thanks to Phoenician for giving this one to me again afterward: I completely failed to catch it the first time around. -m]

19: We have been talking about biology and evolution. Magic also exists. Do magic spells or charms affect the evolutionary/biological history?
Greg: As a species, no (barring the Humility Spell, but that more affects what they consider theirs rather than their biology). As individuals, yes (e.g. Demona). He does not want to make them a magical species.

At this point the panel had long run over its time, and it was necessary to break for a sound check for the second-next panel. This did not quite work out initially. Greg called a short break for that, which is symbolized below.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

The next panel was on "Bringing Gargoyles to the Screen," which is Greg telling the story of how the show initially developed and how he got it sold to Disney.

This is the same story he has told many times before, evidently. I happen to know that a lot of it, if not the whole story, has been told already on "Voices from the Eyrie," and though it took me a while to stop taking notes and just enjoy the presentation--which was very enjoyable--there wasn't anything significant that I know has not been covered elsewhere. He did cover in more detail the unwinding of production after season 2, the cancellation of the various spinoffs, and, ultimately, his leaving Disney. Besides that, there is no point to me mangling the story when you can just grab the first few episodes of "Voices" and hear for yourself or, better still, start saving up to come to the next Gargoyles-adjacent con and see it presented live.

My pencils had gotten quite blunt by this point, anyway.

The third panel was, "Bringing Gargoyles to the Screen Visually." Now was the time to get a washroom break and get the video set up. The first season DVD goes into the player, and the opening menu music ABSOLUTELY BLASTS THE ROOM. Somehow it had gotten out of adjustment since the sound check. I treasure the thought that we drew in a few people who were just curious (or outraged) about the quantity of dramatic music that surely flooded that end of the floor, perhaps the adjacent floors as well. People in this room were thrilled, though.

This was, by and large, a showing of various video ephemera, as follows:

1. The original pitch as delivered to the NATCE conference. This is the pitch reel that appears on the Season One DVD.

2. The featurette about the Gathering of the Gargoyles (Montreal, 2004), also from the Season One DVD. This draws a huge number of (to me) random cheers and callouts. I recognize a few faces and voices, but not many.

The next few had been transferred to a DVD from six videocassettes. Unfortunately, Greg could not find the DVD two days ago, so the next few are actually played off the tapes.

3. The promo reel shown at the famous "It's better than Barney" press showing, the one that left the audience stunned into silence. (It's understandable.)

4. The Animatic "Bad Guys" pitch, which Greg had paid $200 to finish. The scenes in the pitch went into the "Bad Guys" comic, and by the way, he saw the proofs for the Kickstarter reprint of that two weeks ago.

5. Pitches for "Dark Ages" and "New Olympians". These were taped, badly, at a Gathering, but we get to seem some really nice artwork for each. Of note: the "Dark Ages" pitch is a little different than what we just recently got, in that it has Iago turned against the clan and toward the Archmage as one of the story elements. The "New Olympians" pitch predates Gargoyles a bit.

Next there is a brief discussion of the episode "The Last," which was partially completed at the time the project was cancelled. Some fans finished storyboarding it and adding voices, but it is 25 minutes long and there just is not time for it.

6. The cast and crew extra for the Season 2 DVD (we are back to DVDs). This is just the intro, not the whole thing.

7. Greetings from the cast and crew members that were recorded for the attendees at the 2005 Gathering: Frank Paur, Michael Reaves, Jeff Bennett, Bill Fagerbaake, Thom Adcox-Hernandez, Brigitte Bako, and Ed Asner.

And that is it. Greg is breaking into tears over Ed Asner's appearance in the last segment. He has been given a model gargoyle egg, which he gamely attempts to open so he can put his videos inside of it, but it won't come. ("You gotta wait ten years," from the audience.) He finally manages it with a little help and holds it up triumphantly, and the panel is over.

3:15 PM. Everyone has been kicked out of the room so they can have a discussion on the 50th anniversary of something called Dungeons and Dragons. We all roll out to the hallway, constricting its passage greatly. There is a short photo session with our esteemed "Voices" hosts and a couple of fans, and a general mixer among the fans. This finally trails off, as it must, and the remaining group finally dwindles to a small-enough remnant to slot into a side hallway and clear the main one. I finally peel off too. I have a lot of typing ahead of me to try to get all this into a postable state.

The CONvergence closing ceremony runs according to plan, and there probably is not much there for me to report. Greg does mention that he likes coming to this con, that it is the only one he really likes coming to. He does not seem to be the only one among the guests of honor, probably the audience too, that feels that way.

And then it really is over, and time to begin drifting homeward.

I will have one more post to make, before midnight I hope, and not really reporting so much as commenting.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

MASTERDRAMON - Thanks for the information - including the story about the "cell phone prop" (that will probably have to be brought up whenever we're discussing the way cell phones were depicted in "Gargoyles" from now on).
Todd Jensen

TODD: It was recorded by CONvergence themselves, so I expect it will be posted to their YouTube page in due time.

"I will say that the appearance of a 12-pack of Diet Coke in the role of Antoinette Dracon's cell phone was an audience favorite, and that there was clearly no fourth wall in place at all."

Gotta say, getting to (technically!) be the first person to play Antoinette, while I was cosplaying her, was ****ing wonderful. I just about lost it when Greg told me what my role would be in the rehearsal.

The script originally called for the audience to imagine the giant, brick-like 90s cell phone, but I thought it'd be a lot funnier if we could add a bit of prop comedy. If anyone saw me racing around the convention center immediately before the play to see if someone could give me an empty box, that was the reason. XD

Said Diet Coke box is now signed by all the Gargoyles-related guests who were present (notably, I did not have to ask Greg...when I got to his signing table later that day, he said "Give that here" and wrote "BEST. CELL PHONE. EVER."). Which is just god**** hilarious on SOOOOO many levels.

Will take a pic of it once I get it home. Uhhh...somehow. But that's a problem for Future Masterdramon.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If you run you gain one, but if you move forward you gain two." - Suletta Mercury

Incidentally, I really hope that the "Gargoyles: the Movie" radio play goes up on YouTube; I'd like to see/hear it. (I know that they've got the "Gargoyles/Spectacular Spider-Man" crossover up there.)
Todd Jensen

JURGAN> Nope, Keith David did not say "where the hell is that."

He said: "where the f--- is that?"

Big difference. ;)

Greg Bishansky

At the Blue Mug 2006, Greg mentioned the next year's con was at Pigeon Forge and Keith replied "where the hell is that?"
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

JURGAN - Thanks. I hadn't kept track of all the places the Gathering visited (though I know that New York and Los Angeles were among them - and a place called Pigeon Forge. I still get a smile about that last one, in light of gargoyles reportedly having problems with pigeons, and wonder whether the people in charge of that year's Gathering deliberately chose it because of its name).
Todd Jensen

Todd: There was also the time The Gathering was in Chicago (2008, I believe).

Matt: Yes, I was using the term "class" in its literal taxonomic sense. Gargoyles clearly are vertebrates but don't seem to fall into any of the other five classes of the phylum chordata, so I have been assuming they are their own class that would included beasts and now dragons. Having mammary glands and hair but also laying eggs, I could make a case for them being monotremes, but that seems unlikely. Though I suppose putting a random duck-bill on a mammal is about as strange as English gargoyles looking like lions and unicorns for no clear reason.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

MORRAND - Thanks for the latest report, including the indication of what the radio play was about (and it certainly sounds amusing to me - put me inmind of Goliath's horror in "Bushido" when Elisa told him that Taro wanted to make the gargoyles into television stars). The mention of Chicago alongside Goliath and Thailog reminded me (I hope this doesn't upset anyone here) of the infamous rejected ending for "The Goliath Chronicles" in which the gargoyles abandoned New York and Goliath and Elisa moved to Chicago. (So far, that's the one link between "Gargoyles" and Chicago I've come across.)
Todd Jensen

Day 3:

The morning is bright and clear. I am not. I need coffee, badly. Staying up until 2:00 AM to talk to the Internet is a younger man's folly. You would think I would know that by now.

I head up the street, looking for a doughnut shop that is open, which is surprisingly difficult. This being Minneapolis, most of them hide inside office buildings against the snow and ice of February, and stay there the rest of the year. It being Saturday, none of the offices are open, so neither are the doughnut shops they shelter. There is a shopping mall a few blocks away from the hotel, further from the con, and quite a dead-looking one at that. I am about to pass along the street when a couple comes out, carrying a waxed white bag and a couple of paper cups in a tray. At last. I go in.

The mall is, indeed, quite dead. The signs point optimistically toward Cardigan Donuts upstairs, and I follow. The signs are right. The doughnuts are fine and light, and the coffee is quite good, and I sit there and brood over bad decisions more generally. From the back tables, where a couple of people are sitting in front of a computer, I catch the occasional word of conversation: "Gargoyles...Thailog...Chicago..." Chicago? Must be non-canon stuff, yet here it is, blocks away from the con. I guess I should not be surprised as, after all, I myself drifted this far up to find breakfast, but there is something cheering in how pervasive the show is that I can come across a (sort of) random conversation involving it.

Anyway, back to the con. 10 AM. Time for something different. Up to the gymnasium where the FIRST Tech Challenge and Lego League are showing off their robotics skills. Each is a league in which teams of schoolkids compete to show off their robotics skills, with the machines operating autonomously or under remote control. The kids are good. It's also quite soothing to watch the machines roll around, vacuuming up little pucks and depositing them on a "Plinko" type of board, only to have their handlers pull the pucks down and scatter them again. It is like a mechanical Zen garden. One child, a third-grader in a dragon costume, comes in and tries his hand at driving the big robots around, and then goes to the Lego League table and gets into deep conversation with a fourth-grader who's busy demonstrating how the course works. He's hooked, although a little young for Lego League, in answer to which he begins to issue challenges to prove his mettle: "What is it that's inside a neutron star?" Kids crack me up.

I don't suppose any of this has anything much to do with Gargoyles, though I suppose it need not have anything to do with it either. One of the robots is called "The Tempest," which you may take or leave as a Shakespeare reference as you please.

Moving onward to the balcony to people-watch. Hanging over the railing, I can spot a few of the Comment Roomers below, chatting on the couch. A little way off is Miss Shannan Paul, MC of the opening ceremony, taking compliments from someone. The lobby below seems star-studded, at least for a bit, until I realize I am getting loopy again and head off for another cup of coffee. (2 AM!)

The coffee shop is doing pretty good business for midday on a Saturday. The barista hands me my order with great care, not spilling a drop. I carry it over to the table with great care, not spilling a drop. I sit, and proceed to ram my knees directly into the table legs, dumping coffee all over the table. Very big sigh. I go to ask for a rag, and the barista is kind enough to clean up my mess. I sit there with the rest of my coffee, trying to wake up. Off at another table I can overhear talk about "Vinnie." Well, common enough name, I guess, but-- "Vinnie Grigorio." Ah. Well. Pervasive, again, or else I have drifted all the way into auditory hallucinations, which are really going to screw up my note-taking later today. I reorder.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

1:30 PM. The line to get into Northwoods B, the stage on which the radio play will play, is about 20 people deep already, half an hour before the scheduled time. I take my position at the back, and the line grows rapidly from there. Two costumed ladies are in the line in front of me, and one has torn her fan. Somehow I have duct tape on me, and I'm able to offer fan aid.

1:45 PM, and the line has doubled back on itself. Zehra runs up the line, looking for her husband, much to the delight of the assembly.

1:50 PM, and a group of about 20 people arrive on the back of the line just as the announcement is made that seating is beginning. We go in. The stage is packed: the players are seated shoulder to shoulder in two rows on the main stage, and several more seated in front of it. Some faces are familiar; many, of course, are not.

We get underway about 3 minutes early. "We have what I hope is a really, really silly show for you today," says Greg. Over 70 people had auditioned for 28 parts (plus two last-minute additions just to get more people a chance to get in) in a play that was written in about 3 days. There has been one rehearsal. "Don't f--- it up," Greg advises.

The story ostensibly kicks off from Quest #2, and Vinnie's meeting with Goliath. It is revealed that the deal he was offering Goliath was a movie deal. (We are also, as you ought to expect, reminded vigorously that few stories are accurate.) Summarizing the plot would be futile, video of the performance exists, the play is all in the experience rather than the story, and--honestly--I just wanted to stop recording for a while and enjoy, so sorry for the lack of detail. I will say that the appearance of a 12-pack of Diet Coke in the role of Antoinette Dracon's cell phone was an audience favorite, and that there was clearly no fourth wall in place at all. I suppose that metaphor doesn't quite work for a radio play, but anyway, it is a blast.

Standing off in a doorway to one side, reviewing my notes after the performance, I get a little hello from Thom Adcox as he goes by, which I return with an even smaller "hi." Smaller not so much out of bashfulness as distraction. I was trying to shift mental gears from inner monologue to outer dialogue, and ended up grinding the gears instead. So it goes.

Checking the schedule, the remaining panels that I might report on are for Young Justice or for Spectacular Spider-Men. Both are fine and worthy subjects, and I have been following neither of them (to my greater shame). So I will end the evening early with a sandwich and a beer, and a tub of cole slaw for the invisible rabbit who's been following me around since about 3 PM, and hope to hit the panels running tomorrow morning.

By the way: I don't know who might need to hear this, but the Bulldog near by the con has a very tasty chicken club sandwich and a Spider-Man pinball machine, and almost no traffic at 6 on a Saturday evening.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

If we consider Gargates to be a class similar in scope to mammals or birds, then I'd absolutely place dragons as gargates. Six limbed tetrapods with stone-like sleep. Dragons are clearly a different species, but they are gargates.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

JURGAN - I'd say that the depiction of Wyvern in "Dark Ages: Alliance" indicates that dragons are closely related to gargoyles (maybe not gargates themselves, but cousins).

And, yes, most depictions of gargoyles in fiction (at least, pre-"Gargoyles") that I've seen follow that approach (an approach that Greg Weisman mentioned "Gargoyles" deliberately avoided). (I came across a book called something like "The Farthest Away Mountain" when I was a boy that took a different approach towards gargoyles; three gargoyles appear in the book who are actually dwarves - called trolls in the book, but they were depicted as more dwarflike - but transformed into gargoyles by a curse; fortunately, they're restored to their normal selves by the end.)

Todd Jensen

MORRAND: Mahalo! The makeup takes a fair bit of work every morning, but the reactions I've gotten from Greg and various other fans has been worth it. Someone (apologies for forgetting whom!) even gave me a "DRACON" friendship bracelet after the Gargoyles Comic panel yesterday.

If there's anyone in Station 8 I haven't yet had a chance to chat with, please feel free to flag me down! The social aspect is always the best part of this type of con experience.

Otherwise, I'll be back as Antoinette (NOT TONI!!!) for the radio play in a couple hours. Not sure what type of role I got cast in but can't wait to find out!

Hope to see y'all there! :D

(And Morrand, effusively echoing Matt's gratitude for these "Gathering Journals," to borrow the older term. It's truly appreciated to have our adventures chronicled in real-time!)

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If you run you gain one, but if you move forward you gain two." - Suletta Mercury

Todd: Probably because most treatments of gargoyles are as magical beings created by sorcerers, not living creatures with a normal reproductive cycle. Also, Greg previously said gargoyles and beasts are the only living gargates, but should we assume dragons are also part of that class?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Thanks for the second day's report, morrand.

MATT - The "dragon's egg" responses your gargoyle egg received got me thinking about the connection between gargoyles and eggs. I can't recall anything about gargoyles laying eggs in fictional treatments of them before the animated series. I do know of one book featuring a gargoyle egg that came out very recently, called "Anthony and the Gargoyle". by Jo Ellen Bogart and Maja Kastelic. It's a charming picture book (all pictures, no words, but tells the story clearly and effectively) about a boy who finds what he thinks is a rock, but which hatches into a baby gargoyle that he makes friends with - and culminates in a trip to Notre Dame to meet the gargoyles there.

Of course, gargoyles as egg-layers was certainly convenient for the series, and I think also helps establish a biological difference from humans. Since gargoyles are often given reptilian features (appropriate in the case of these gargoyles, now that we know they're related to dragons), the idea of their laying eggs would match that as well.

Todd Jensen

Carumbo> All things are true. Few Things are accurate. Or, to quote Greg from yesterday: "Trust the process". Until things are officially announced, the business decisions are in flux. The important thing is that all parties concerned are determined to continue producing Gargoyles material with Greg in position as writer.

morrand> Thanks for keeping up with the synopsis. I'm here, sometimes sitting right next to you, but it is good to have you taking notes. And let me tell you people, morrand is taking notes. I've yet to see him without notebook in hand and we are all thankful.

Truly a great day yesterday. So glad so many of you introduced yourselves to me. I think Egwardo in a backpack was something of a beacon to those who didn't already know me. The egg back a lot of attention in general yesterday ranging from MANY random Con-goers asking if it was a dragon egg, to a hilarious conversation in the Audition line about gargoyles being able to lay these things, and Erin Weisman taking the top portion of the egg and wearing it as a hat.

Having a blast, but glad today is a bit more low key for me. Might even take a nap. Didn't get home from the Blue Mug til after 1am and then had Phoenician texting me even later about pies instead of going to bed. Have a great day, everyone!

Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Good morning, and welcome to day 3...right? Yeah, day 3. These late nights are killing me. I don't know how you kids do this. But anyway, to follow up on a couple of things:

Masterdramon - You are, indeed, rocking that costume.

Matthew - As I mentioned, you weren't hovering half as badly as I was, only you actually pounced. I respect that.

Phoenician - You scooped me! But I'm glad the video is posted. It was a good time.

Craig - I'm glad to be of service, and besides, typing all of this up is a good way for me to lock a lot of the experience into my memory (even some of the bits I edit out). Chris also believes that he deserves to work on the Dynamite comics at some point (and likewise Karine); we'll see, I guess. As for rhubarb, remember that we're on the other side of the Twin Cities from Garrison Keillor's old stomping grounds. Rhubarb pie is (forgive me) sort of baked into the local culture.

CarumboZabumbo - I don't get the impression at all that Dark Ages hasn't sold well. Nothing in what Greg had to say suggested poor sales were behind any of it. Quite the contrary: the sales of the Gargoyles comics have been very good. Excellent, really. He made a definite point of that. He has also made a point, over and over, that the commercial side of things is Not Up To Him, and that issue counts and so on are primarily commercial decisions. Dynamite has their reasons, in other words. (My own suspicion is that Dynamite also has limited bandwidth, if you'll excuse the jargon, and a lot of other stuff they're doing under their Disney license that they want to get out with the capacity they have got.)

Regarding your spoilerized question, with respect, if anyone asks Greg, it will not be me. I have extremely low confidence in getting a more satisfying answer than, again, "It's Not Up To Me," especially because I've already made myself obnoxious in other thrilling ways.

Ooof. I need a doughnut. Provided I find one, Day 3 report to follow, which will include the radio play this afternoon.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

...who's panicking? I'm just noting that something must have changed behind-the-scenes and wondering what.
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!

CarumboZabumbo > What leads you to think that the one project negates the other? Let's just be grateful for what we get and take it as it comes. We've barely had a month go by without new Gargoyles comics in the past year and a half. I am not seeing a reason to panic here.
Craig

Todd & Morrand - Thank you for the news. Sad to hear we won't be getting any spin-offs anytime soon - I guess Dark Ages didn't sell that well.

[SPOILER] It feels very appropriate to have Greg and Frank Paur teaming up again for the 30th anniversary - but I have to wonder, what happened to the 12-issues series that Weisman announced was going to follow Quest months ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/gargoyles/comments/19a1i23/greg_weisman_confirmed_today_that_after_the_end/)? Did Dynamite downgrade the order from 12 to 5? Or was that series pushed to a later date? Could someone at the con please bring it up to Greg? [/SPOILER]

CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!

Thanks for the journals, Morrand. I feel like I'm living vicariously through you, and I feel a little less depressed for not being able to attend (although I'm still bummed that I didn't get to meet everyone).

Two fascinating tidbits you revealed about the comics: that the SLG series didn't happen because Vado wanted Gargoyles (which was what I've always heard), but because he was skeptical and his kids convinced him! And that Chris Jones introduced Greg to Nate Cosby, a piece of the puzzle I don't believe we'd heard before (which just makes me feel even more strongly that Chris deserves to work on the Dynamite comics at some point!)

Wonderful, wonderful news about [SPOILER] Greg and Frank collaborating again on Gargoyles. I'm curious: does anyone know if Frank has been keeping up with the SLG/Dynamite comics? My impression from the Voices podcasts was that he hasn't (that has been my impression of most of the guests), although I'll admit that I'm not entirely certain. [/SPOILER]

Love that Kambadais fully designed Antoinette's wardrobe. One of the many reasons that she's so memorable as a character, but obviously a big one in a visual medium. Also, Greg's reply that she would have "definitely one" outfit in her animated incarnation is classic Greg humor (because obviously, the alternative of no outfits would not be acceptable to Disney!).

Rhubarb is one of those foods that's absolutely fascinating to me. It's obviously grown and sold to the extent that it's readily available, and yet, how often do you ever actually see rhubarb anywhere? I could probably count the number of times I've had it (usually in pies) on one hand. Glad to see it getting some love! (Even though it's not the funniest pie.)

Craig

Day 2 starts late. Loring Park is at least less desolate than it was yesterday when I go down for a morning walk, trying desperately to wake up fully. A walk around the lagoon helps. A cup of coffee on the other side of the park helps better, though. If that sends the message that soft drugs are more effective than exercise and fresh air, well, I don't know what to tell you.

However it works out, I am well-refreshed by the time I head over to the hotel for day two of the con. This mostly consists of wandering around and seeing what else is going on at this point. Appropriately enough, most of the good stuff comes later in the day into the night. Still, in my wanderings I do discover that the line for Brigitte Bako's autograph is reasonably short, compared to yesterday, and so I take the opportunity and get hers in my notebook. In purple marker, and on the back of the last page of my notes from yesterday, so that the ink soaks straight through and renders yesterday's notes illegible. Oh well. At least now I am glad I stayed up to make the post yesterday, and I am not terribly sorry to lose the page to that if I am going to lose it at all.

Meanwhile I get more reports on the state of auditions for the radio play. The line for the 12:30 auditions has again been cut off with people sent away. It's clear that the radio play team is going to have a massive job ahead of them to make selections, and rumors circulate that the final list will be posted upstairs tonight. Anxiety around this abounds.

A little before 2 PM I slide into the main stage for the "Voices from the Eyrie" performance. There is an early crowd, of sorts, and refreshingly they are in the front rows. We get under way more or less on time. I need not take detailed notes on the show, of course, since you can download it and hear for yourself, but as a sneak preview, here are some of the highlights:

- Live opening narration! Zehra Fazal, being on the panel for the first time, is able to read the opening, "The story is told...," live. (Also a bit of last-minute swapping around of place cards.)

- Zehra talking about going from fan to pro, with credit in large part to Greg Weisman's support and encouragement.

- Greg W. talking about the character of Shari and modeling her on Zehra.

- Thom Adcox-Hernandez talking about being cast as Lexington and the character's influence on him. He shows off his Lexington tattoo.

- Brigitte talks about being cast as Angela. As a bit of on-the-scene information, she did show off her "I [heart] Angela" shirt, not anything else, despite the program audio.

- Jennifer talked about being co-host of "Voices" for 50 episodes and what the show has meant to her.

- The panel discusses the timelessness of the show and its emphasis on diversity, and how extraordinary that was then, and now.

- There was a MAJOR SCOOP which I will mention below since I took better notes later when it came up again.

- The panel discussed many of the people who were unsung heroes of the show, some of whom were mentioned yesterday.

The next session is "Gargoyles in Comics," featuring Greg Weisman, Karine Charlebois, and Christopher Jones. Greg leads off by talking about his history with both of his panelists, highlighting that Christopher had worked with him on "Flashback of Notre Dame," which featured parodies of the Gargoyles characters (that DC's lawyers had concerns about). As usual, Greg has prepared nothing, but he did want to go over a history of the Gargoyles comics, plus a hint about the future.

While the show was on the air, Marvel had done 11 comic issues with great writers. Greg was busy working on the show, and wasn't able to track them, so they are not actually canon since they don't really track the same continuity; however, they are good. There were also a bunch of random comics, including several that went into "Disney Adventures" (and one in "TV Guide" for some reason). One of these was so much fun that the premise--swapping a statue in for a sleeping gargoyle--was used in the show.

About 2006-2008, Greg Weisman, Greg Guler, and Marty Lund got together and tried to form Creature Comics to get a license to publish new "Gargoyles" comics. Disney did not want to license to them, as they had no history as a business, but did point them toward SLG, which already had licenses. SLG initially didn't want to partner with them either, but the owner took the idea home to his kids, who enthusiastically supported it, so he came back and agreed to put "Gargoyles" on his license. (Christopher: Did you buy gifts for those kids? Greg: Yes. I'm saying but not saying that I did or did not buy them gifts first, but....) "Gargoyles" went on to be SLG's top selling title, and this led to them also running the "Bad Guys" spinoff, but both series ran into deadline issues and the license started to run out. SLG went back to Disney to renew, and Disney, having by this point bought Marvel and thinking to take the title there, raised the license fee to an exorbitant amount. This successfully dissuaded SLG from renewing, but did allow them to publish collections, so they were able to publish the end of both series (Clan-Building and Bad Guys) in the collections. Meanwhile, Marvel never took up the title. (So it goes.)

Time passes. Christopher introduces Greg to Nate Cosby, at Dynamite, who wanted to get a new Gargoyles comic going and begged Greg to write it, even though Greg accepted on the first request. And now, the new Gargoyles #1 is still Dynamite's best seller. And now we have 12 issues of "Here in Manhattan," plus the Halloween Special, plus 6 issues of Dark Ages, plus 5 issues of Quest, plus...

And here we get the BIG NEWS: [SPOILER] Quest will be followed by a 5-issue series that will be a project proposed, penciled, and inked by Frank Paur, and written by Greg. He cannot say what it will be about, but it is good and he is happy to be working with Frank again. [/SPOILER] Plus, there was a very successful Kickstarter to reprint the previous issues. (Christopher: how successful?) Extremely: it hit its $50,000 goal in two hours and reached $925,000 in the end. Greg: You all got it that close and couldn't make $1M?

Then to the floor for questions, which (again) I'm summarizing the best I can.

1: For Karine, how difficult was it to draw the Bad Guys scene with Tasha? And for Greg, how was it working with [SPOILER] Frank? [/SPOILER] Greg discusses the history of Erin and Bennie in "Bad Guys," how their mutate forms were chosen by his kids, and how that led to the decision to make them armored mutates. Karine: I came up with designs to make them more animal than human, basically because I was tired of female mutates being humanoid with a weird nose or whatever. Bennie as a pillbug was a lot of fun to draw, as was Tasha as an armadillo. Tasha's final scene had to be done very carefully, and I tried to focus on the consequences: Bennie rolled up, Erin's head pulled into her shell.
Greg: (And I am spoilering this whole thing out of caution.) [SPOILER] Working with Frank is great. We both appreciated each other back during the original series, but things got tense at the end of season 2 due to the time constraints. He told the story of getting into a loud fight about one of the Avalon episodes about putting a fight on the beach. They went on to fight with each other at Dreamworks, too. They both felt later that they hadn't appreciated each other like they should, and they have been great for 20-plus years. [/SPOILER]

2: Hypothetical: if you could continue the animated series, would you feel it had to hold to comic canon, or would you be open to some deviation? Greg: It's not always my call to make. If it were, then all of the SLG and Dynamite comics would be canon because all of that is stuff I have wanted to do for 29 years. The big-picture stuff has been part of the plan since way back. I'd be willing to adapt the comics into episodes, or re-introduce a character to a new audience. But in the end, they don't have to go to me for any of this.

3: Regarding the comics, they have been in 6 and 12-issue runs. Why is Quest five? Greg: It's an editorial decision by Dynamite. Follow-up: is that to slot into a trade volume? A: it hasn't been discussed. Probably it is a better idea to slot the Halloween Special in with Quest. Nate has given Greg tremendous freedom to tell the story, but things like the number of pages, issues, and so on are business decisions and not his.

4: What was the process of developing and introducing Antoinette Dracon? She has 20 outfits. A: Well, she won't have 20 outfits if we ever get a new animated series; maybe 2, definitely one. She is a lot of fun. Greg is really interested in her relationship with Demona, but that is a discussion for another time. He said to George that this is Dominic's fraternal twin sister, and George chose her hair and clothing styles. Greg was knocked out by them.

5: Is there anything you have found works better in a comic than animation? A: The SLG 3-parter ("The Rock," etc.) with all of the bouncing around in time. A comic makes it easy to page back and forth to retrace the timelines, rather than being stuck going forward continuously or skimming back and forth with the remote. The 2008 radio play edition of this story did not work out since everything was shown in order.

6: For Christopher/Karine, Who is your favorite or most challenging character to draw?
Karine: She struggled keeping Goliath on-model and it got difficult in several instances. She enjoyed drawing all of them, and lots of fun drawing the Redemption Squad.
Chris: He only did a single issue and doesn't really remember much, but does remember being a fill-in artist, trying to come up to speed, and also having to match the style of the show. Also, trying to solve story-telling problems, like having characters stuck in a hotel room and making the story telling more dynamic [this is my read of the answer, but I think I got it. -m]. So, he doesn't have a great answer to which character is his favorite to draw.
Karine: Seeing Chris' art showed her how to improve her own, so the later issues are much better.

7: Not a question, but parody is protected under law--
Greg: I am very aware of that. Everything Dynamite is doing is reviewed by Disney because, while you might eventually win in court, it is very expensive to get there. So many things are done so that the lawyers don't ask too many questions. Greg has gotten a lot of traction out of saying things are "de minimis," or too small to matter, but it doesn't always work. The history of "Gargoyles" is a history of lawsuits, for example, by the sunglasses company. This was silly, but it did get awkward when, at the end of the pilot, Brooklyn put on a pair of sunglasses. That led to depositions, etc., but ultimately it went nowhere.

8: Any other spinoffs coming such as "Time Dancer"? Greg would love to get all of the spinoffs eventually, but it is mostly a commercial decision. In the current framework, they won't do something he does not want to do, but it's Not Up To Me. Chris: What gets done is always a combination of the creative and the commercial parts. Greg: I loved all the things I got to do in "Dark Ages," but really loved Mentor and hearing Ed Asner's voice in my head again. Anyway, I have more stories to tell than years to live.

9: Are you more of the Stan Lee school of quuick notes, or do you write it all out? Greg is full-script. Not as detailed as Alan Moore, but he has found that these things work better when they are planned out in advance. Chris really appreciates that Greg's scripts are easy to follow, and indexed to show characters and locations, since it makes them much easier to draw.

10: Last year was the 30th of "Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers." (The audience groans.) Would you ever collaborate or have the gargoyles take revenge on the Rangers for stealing their ratings? Greg: Never say never. We could have a fun time with all sorts of crossovers. [Then he said something about putting that on social media and people running off with it, but I didn't hear it fully because I felt his icy glare on me in the second row, scribbling away in my notebook, even without him looking anywhere near me.]

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

It is 8:22 PM. Anticipation is building in the Northwoods Promenade, scene of the Fancy Bastard Pie Competition. A fair crowd has gathered around a corner of what would normally be the pre-event space that has been roped off for the event. It starts at 8:30 on the dot.

Greg tells the story of how the contest started, with a desire for a simple dessert like a pie. Chris Jones is moderating, despite it being the first time he's been able to attend, so the history lesson is useful for him. The first event had something like 18 pies, and, committed to the cause, Greg ate 18 to 20 slices of pie over 30 minutes, the second-to-last of which was a savory chili pie with a cornbread crust, which was a bit of a problem. In 2018, the event returned, although they didn't tell Greg. There were 50 pies. Given the progression in the number of entries, prudence dictated bringing on more judges, and so they have: Brigitte, Thom, and Zehra, all ready for the challenge.

This year, there are five pies. So much for progression.

Off we go: pie "A" hits the table, and draws an enthusiastic response from Zehra. Someone in the crowd says they'd like to play poker with her. There is good banter between Chris, the panel, and the crowd. "What's Commander #3's opinion of this pie?" says someone in the audience. "Nice crust," replies Greg.

Pie "B". Something has completely cracked up Zehra and Thom, and they are collapsing all over each other with laughter.

Pie "C". One of the panelists squeals in delight upon receiving their slice. Chris keeps working the crowd. It is, after all, forty people watching four people eat pie. From the crowd: "We need more impressions!" "You need to respect the process," responds Greg.

Pie "D". Strawberry rhubarb. Zehra is in a state of bliss. There is a slight confusion about scoring up front, and a hurried discussion along the line of, is a "1" good or bad?

Pie "E". "Tastes like sex in the Caribbean," says Brigitte. "I just dropped cream on Greg's shoe," says Zehra.

Quick consultation and computation up front. Also a bit of late news: the casting for the radio play is complete, and the cast list is posted upstairs.

The final results are announced: B, C, D & E (in a tie), and A is the winner. In the course of this, it comes out that pie "C" was a ginger cheesecake with a gingerbread crust. This is a bit of a problem as Greg is allergic to ginger. Erin, standing nearby, has her hand to her face. It is not a dangerous allergy, apparently, but not pleasant.

But then, scandal! Pie "A" was a berry pie bought in a store. The audience is shocked, or as shocked as anyone in a pie contest can be. Pie "A" is promptly disqualified, leaving pies "D" and "E", baked by a pair of brothers, as the joint winners.

And so there is pie and mingling for all.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

11 PM. The Blue Mug. The room is already getting a bit rowdy as people begin to get situated. Greg shows up early and is already working the crowd a bit, and a few of them are working him right back, for that matter. Thom shows up 4 minutes before the published start time, and the panel begins.

But of course I can't tell here much of what happened, because I am a prude of the first water, and always have been. The session was, to use the local argot, really different. Enough to say it was rollicking, and I think just about everyone had a terrific time. And so off to bed for the night, with day 3 to come.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

Oh, and just watched the live "Voices From the Eyrie" (thanks again, Phoenician, for the link) - and the part I found especially exciting was [SPOILER] Greg Weisman announcing that "Gargoyle Quest" will be followed by a story that he and Frank Paur will be teaming up on. Now that's really something to look forward to. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen

PHOENICIAN - Thanks for the link.

Not "Gargoyles"-related, but I was watching the latest "My Adventures With Superman" just now, and when [SPOILER] Monsieur Mallah and Brain returned, and mentioned running into their counterparts in every alternate world they visited, I couldn't help thinking "This is practically an invitation for fanfic writers to do a story where they go to Earth-16 and have a run-in with their counterparts working for the Light". [/SPOILER]

Todd Jensen

Will post more later, but in the meantime, for those that haven't seen the link for Voices from the Eyrie Live from ConVergence, I'm posting it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qau5U2eQ3hE

Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

Thanks for the mention, Morrand. Excuse me for hovering but when I saw the green cap from your description I had to stop and see for myself.

It has been great seeing so many from the Comment Room here. Heck it's great just to be here to begin with.

Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

MORRAND - Thanks for the in-depth report (down to even the T. S. Eliot quote) of the first day of CONvergence. I've only skimmed it, but hope to read it through in more detail.

Much of the "interview segment" was familiar (though some of the questions were new, such as the "whom you'd like to have a drink with" - and I'm amazed that Demona was one of the answers there!), including the "Avalon World Tour", but I've my own thoughts on that one.

[12: What was up with dropping half the cast for the World Tour? Greg: Season 2 was 52 episodes, so they needed 4 story-editing teams and 3 1/2 directing teams, but they also needed to get out of Manhattan to avoid limiting what the show was. This also opened up more stories to tell, and it helped create hope, as the original group of gargoyles was clearly headed to extinction. This helped to justify Goliath's basic optimism. It also made it possible to create a lot of "back-door" pilots to establish the extended Gargoyles adventure universe that never quite got going.]

I think both were good points. I remember discussing the "headed to extinction" element here last year, and we agreed that the series would have been too bleak if it had taken the route of "no other gargoyles" out there. Not only that, but I think that showing that the gargoyles had a future ensured more development.

What I mean by that is that in the first season, we saw some big changes for the gargoyles. They awakened in modern-day Manhattan, adjusted to it, moved out from the castle to the clock tower, and took their oath to protect the city. Then Season Two comes, and for the first part of it ("Leader of the Pack" to "The Price"), their situation doesn't change much. There are some big changes around them (Derek gets turned into a Mutate, Fox breaks with the Pack, moves in with Xanatos, they get married and she's with child, Xanatos and Demona's alliance comes to an end, Demona now turns into a human in the daytime, etc.), and the Manhattan clan did get a few changes (Brooklyn becoming Goliath's official second-in-command, for example, and Broadway and Hudson deciding to learn to read), but overall, their situation at the end of "The Price" is almost identical to that at the start of "Leader of the Pack". And I suspect that much of the reason for this is that there's not much further for them to go, if they are apparently the last gargoyles left (with no hope of more after them); all that's left (beyond protecting Manhattan) is for their lives to end (whether through battle or natural causes), which would automatically end the series. Revealing that the species does have a future after all changed that - and we've seen plenty of new developments in the clan since the Avalon World Tour (Angela joins, the clan becomes public knowledge, they're back in the castle, Coldstone and Coldfire join it, Brooklyn's Timedancer adventures change him permanently and lead to four new members, including the first egg in a long time, etc.).

Could the series have offered this level of change and development for the gargoyles if they'd remained "the very last gargoyles"? I did think of one possibility, that went something like this. At some point, Goliath realizes that they'll have to address the question of "Who'll protect Manhattan once they're gone?" The city's got a human police force, obviously, which was doing that job before the gargoyles came, but the gargoyles have encountered some unusual adversaries (like Demona) for whom the NYPD might not be enough. So they turn to finding some way to discover "gargoyle counterparts" who could follow after them (almost a parallel to Xanatos's "make-my-own-gargoyles" schemes, if with a different tone, obviously - and the parallel element was kind of appealing, though not enough to make this seem like a better route for the series). What exact form these successors would take, I don't know (humans in high-tech gargoyle armor similar to Xanatos's seems most likely), but with the idea that their training would be a major part of this alternate "Gargoyles" series - and with a possible ending in which, after the Manhattan gargoyles are all gone, the humans in gargoyle-armor (or whatever they are) deliver an official salute to them, pledging to carry on their work - followed by their suiting up and flying out to protect the city, accompanied by triumphant music and maybe a freeze-frame of their flying towards the camera. But I don't think it would have worked as well (in particular, it could easily make the gargoyles' "gargoyleness" seem more like just a handy plot device to give them crime-fighting abilities, and make their passing seem less like extinction and more "one super-hero steps down, another takes his place"), and I'm glad they didn't take that route.

Todd Jensen

It was a great first day! Met a lot of S8 folks for the first time and met up with a lot that I have not seen in person in 15 years or more. The kickoff for Gargoyles was last night and morrand did a great job summing it up. I noticed this morning that the whole thing is up on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-5xBlw7Ue8

If you are here and see someone carrying around a life-sized gargoyle egg in a backpack (ala Katana/Egwardo), please say hi. I can't imagine there are many folks doing so.

Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Wonderful first day of CONvergence!

I've run into a number of the S8 regulars already, but for anyone else looking for me, I'm rocking (or at minimum, attempting to) an Antoinette Dracon cosplay. Specifically, her red furred jacket look from the final panels of Here in Manhattan #1.

I'm not sure if I'm the first person to cosplay a Dynamite-era character, but if not, I think I'm pretty close. XD

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If you run you gain one, but if you move forward you gain two." - Suletta Mercury

Day 1. I will put a little ASCII divider below if you want to skip the atmospherics and get to the con itself.

The morning starts well before the day begins, it seems. From the conference schedule, it looks like events begin to kick off on the 4th at about 11 AM. I am up at 7, and hungry, and despite the rain I can see out of the window, I want to hit the street.

So up the street I go, umbrella in hand and, because my bashfulness has overruled my good sense, jacket over my shoulders to cover up my "Gargoyles" tee, and to a chain coffee shop for a pastry and coffee. It's clear that I'm not the only conference attendee there. At the next table is a small group, a band, excitedly discussing their last four or five gigs, behind them is a pair of people with their badges on display, and off in the corner is a man excitedly scrolling through his feeds. There is nobody else. There is nobody else outside, I notice, except the occasional bus passenger at the stop across Nicollet Mall. Just the rain and the city, gray, quiet.

My coffee at long last finished, I pick up the umbrella and go walking down past the Regency. I could go in. I ought to go in, and get the lay of the land. It is my first time to CONvergence, and something in my nature compels me toward studying, analyzing, and optimizing the visit. I do not. I turn and go down Loring Greenway, behind the hotel.

Loring Greenway leads, expectedly, to Loring Park, a very pretty urban park with a shuffleboard court facing the Greenway and a wild lagoon in the center. I walk down toward the lagoon, rain soaking my jeans and pattering off the tiny umbrella that barely keeps my head dry. It is quiet. Not a soul is in sight. Not a soul has been in sight the whole walk over, and to not see anyone at all in the center of a major city is disquieting, even with the holiday, even with the rain. Even the birds are mostly quiet, other than the odd squawk of a blackbird objecting to the solitude being broken by this bashful fool walking aimlessly in the rain. I start to go around the lagoon, before spotting a lit festoon off one corner of the park, back the way I had come. Light attracts, and my plans change, and I start moving that direction.
Along the way I pass a strange structure set back off the main path a little ways, a cage-like thing, with no roof and no obvious purpose. I have to go up and look. On three sides, there are little plaques set up on stands. They have been beaten and pried on, no doubt in an effort to collect them for scrap metal, and on each is a scrap of T.S. Eliot, one of which starts off:

"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."

I don't know if it's how it was meant, but it is oddly encouraging on such a dreary morning, and I continue onward back to the hotel.

The festoon ends up lighting a patio of a cafe that looks fancy and also very closed, whether for the holiday or the morning I cannot tell, and I continue on up through side streets, with a vague notion of which way the hotel lies. My bashfulness is finally sweated into submission, and I open my jacket, an act that feels as daring as walking down the streets with no pants, somehow. I pass a woman along the way who is in the middle of a profane tirade, probably to her phone but possibly not, on the subject of downtown being absolutely deserted except for at least ten people who keep wanting to be near her. I try not to take offense and I move onward. The rain lets up just as my hotel heaves into view between the other buildings, and I go inside and up. Half an hour later and slightly dried out, I head back down to the conference to begin my study.

There is, in the lobby of the hotel, already a small group in Gargoyles shirts gathering together. One of them is handing out yellow "Beware of Gargoyles" badges. I recognize these from Twitter, and they will end up being quite well represented later in the day, including up on stage. I sit across the lobby from them and spy because, somehow, that feels less creepy than going up and saying hello to strangers. This may be a Midwest thing. The group consists of 10 people by 10:30 AM, which is cool to see, cooler still to have them right inside the lobby doors. They do, as I think it is called, represent. They also seem to be quite a friendly group. It grows by a couple of people. One gives enthusiastic hugs to his comrades. It's clear how excited these people are to be together here.

My bashfulness wanes a bit, not enough to go and confront the other group, but enough to seriously consider taking off my coat.

As I brood over this scandalous thought, someone in a brown fedora begins hovering, edging closer and closer. I eye him curiously, politely. He finally comes over. "Is that an 'S&C' hat?" he asks. It is. He introduces himself as Matthew, the first person I have met from the Comment Room, and we chat a bit.

The time comes and we split up to do our respective things. I head up to the balcony to keep exploring, and look down over the lobby from there. Right away, below me, I see a man posing for a photo, and even from this angle, even before I see the "Gargoyles" cap, I recognize him. Keith David. He is not slammed by fandom, despite being 15 feet from the group I'd seen before. It is for the best, surely. It's lunchtime, and he is on his way out of the hotel. Not long after, I head out for my own.

After lunch, my bashfulness has waned enough for me to, per my notes, "muster all of my Annabelle energy" and go crash the other group, sitting on a couch right in the middle, close enough to eavesdrop but separated by enough not to be a complete intruder. (Annabelle, not her real name, is a colleague who has the habit of just appearing at your elbow in the middle of those impromptu technical conversations that come up all the time at professional conferences. In so doing, she has learned enormously.) I am mostly unnoticed. However, my attempts to eavesdrop are not successful. The lobby is noisy and it is hard to hear more than a line or two from anyone. It probably serves me right. I move on.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

The line for auditions for the radio play is long, long enough that I quickly figure it is not worth my time to stand in it to waste other people's time showing off my lack of talent. Fortunately, I have caught up with Matthew again, and pass some time conversing with him while the line grinds forward. I cannot help but notice the number of shaky hands on people going into the audition room, and the number of wide grins coming out of it. Whatever else is going on, the auditions seem to be going well.

I eventually head off again, and suddenly bump into Phoenician heading up to the auditions. He greets me, I greet him, and that is about all we have time for before we continue on our ways.

Down in the signing line at 3:31, which winds all the way around one side of the exhibit hall. I take some time to walk around to the front to see how it is going. It is controlled chaos, Minnesota style. The line is orderly, but the volunteers are rapidly taking up and rearranging the individual signing lines for each of the participating "Gargoyles" guests. I dither a bit, and then join the line at 3:50. "There is a chance that you might not get in," says the line marshal, but then the chance of getting in is zero if you do not join the queue, so in I go, notebook in hand.

5:00 PM, and the line has moved enough that I am just about to round the last corner. It is not looking great. Volunteers are going up the line, warning everyone that they might not get in, although they might. It looks more like "not" from this angle. The event runs until 5:30, and I estimate that at line's pace I am likely to come up about 50 feet short of the goal by then. I turn out to be right, and although they gamely kept the signing line open past the scheduled time, I find that most of the guests are gone to dinner by the time I get within striking distance, and so I abandon the effort about 10 or 15 minutes short of reaching the head of the line. I go back to the lobby in defeat, albeit tempered by the knowledge that I didn't have much to sign anyway (I'd planned, if I got through the line, to try to get my conference notebook autographed, and perhaps it is best that I didn't get to try that).

I meet back up with Phoenician at the lobby and we head for the main ballroom to catch the opening ceremony at 6 PM, although it wasn't. It was "Big Fun Radio Funtime," a series of short radio plays that were, as advertised, fun. They definitely took us up to 7, at which time the opening session was to have started, and then on to about 7:20 when things actually got rolling (signaled by the extremely bright lights that they shone into the audience by way of lighting effects).

The opening session was also a good time, punctuated by each of the Guests of Honor being invited up to stage, one at a time, to play Two Truths and a Lie. At this, Thom Adcox-Hernandez excelled, absolutely knocking the crowd dead with The Soup Story. Greg Weisman, for his part, fooled the crowd (or a part of it) with the fib that Hasbro had demanded helicopters for the gargoyles even though they have wings. (It was Kenner.)

Onward we rolled into the Gargoyles 30th Anniversary Celebration, with the pleasant surprise that Keith David would be joining the panel rather than leaving earlier in the day as had previously been expected. The Celebration was mostly a Q&A session, with Greg Weisman kicking off the first question: After 30 years, what does "Gargoyles" mean to you? The common thread was that it meant a community, and for several on the panel, it meant the beginning (or restart) of a lot of creativity. Greg himself mentioned that it had been the throughline of half of his life, illustrating this in part with a story of Erin's performance, or lack thereof, of the word "doggie" for the first episode of the third season.

From the audience, the following questions, and I apologize for just summarizing most of the answers, but this post is getting long enough as it is. I think a few of these have been told on "Voices" already.

1: For Greg W., you've talked about being a development exec at Disney, but was it expected that you would make a show of your own? Greg answered by saying he'd held the development position for five years, meaning to write at night but not actually being able to, and by the time he had successfully pitched the show, it was clearly so unusual that they had trouble finding producers, story editors, and so on, so he wound up taking on production as well. He also felt it was right up his alley due to his background in comic books.

2: Which of the gargoyles would you most like to have a drink with, and which least? The "most" answers were quite varied: Brooklyn, Katana, Hudson, Hyena, Goliath, and even Demona all got mentioned. The "least" answers were largely Demona, but Elisa as a gargoyle, the Weird Sisters, and Iago also came up.

3: What job did you want when you were young? For some of the guests, this had worked out: Greg W. said "writer," Thom said "actor," and Keith said, "I'm living my dream." There were also two veterinarians, one paleontologist, and "The King of Hell," according to my notes.

4: Anyone off stage whom you'd like to highlight? Carl Johnson (composer), Jamie Thomason (casting), Salli Richardson (Elisa), Greg Guler, and someone who's name is a smudge now because my pencil got worn to a nub, but I can read "cel artist" next to it. I'm sure I have miscopied some of those names.

5: For Greg W.: What was the inspiration for the characters? The inspiration for most of them were actual stone gargoyles, largely from Europe, and the question of why these scary creatures would have been protective against even scarier creatures. The basic concept grew from there. Greg then discussed the earlier comedy version and its development, the inspiration for those characters, and how they transformed once Goliath was in the picture and each of the others were "viewed through the prism of Goliath". He also talked about Hudson having been inspired by Lou Grant.

6: Gargoyles has very deep story telling, but also a lot of humor. What is your favorite joke or funny line? Keith gave a couple of answers: Goliath, upon first coming across Elisa's line of work, saying, "De-tec-tive," and then also "Know her? I named her." Greg W. named the "Whoa, updraft!" moment from "The Mirror". This also led to a telling of how "jalapena" got into the patter, and subsequently how it abruptly stopped.

7: A lot of story seeds were planted early. How many were planned? Greg W: The big things were planned in advance, such as the fate of the clan's eggs, but a lot of little things were picked up by exploring new opportunities (and, as described, because they kept coming across brilliant actors and wanting to give them more to do in the series, such as David Warner). This also allowed them to keep the show and its environment moving, so that each episode didn't end up back where it began, but the universe kept changing due to what had happened. "Everything about this show always seemed to click," such as the revelation about Puck and Owen, and Greg said he'd never had another show where it feels like there is a correct answer just out there in the universe, as though this were all happening in another universe.

8: What was the thought process to make human-Goliath Black? Greg: The fallback plan was to set each gargoyle-as-human to resemble their actors, but there was also an element of wondering what kind of human would pair up well with Elisa, and would Goliath then unconsciously sort of match up with the woman he loves? (Greg thought this was a bit of a wishy-washy element, though.)

9: For Keith: What was your favorite episode? Hard to isolate, but his favorite moment: "I have lost everything, even my revenge!" (And of course he read this in voice, much to the audience's delight.)

10: For Keith: What wisdom from the show has stuck with you for 30 years? The inclusiveness and humanity is inspiring.

11: For Keith (who was being rushed off stage about this point to go upstairs and host a movie): What of your past experience inspired how you played Goliath? It always starts on the page: if the love is there, then "I can suck melancholy out of an egg, if it is on the page." (The audience loved that line too.) At the audition, the direction he initially got was to do Sean Connery. (Greg mentioned that John Rhys-Davies actually did Sean Connery, unsolicited.)

12: What was up with dropping half the cast for the World Tour? Greg: Season 2 was 52 episodes, so they needed 4 story-editing teams and 3 1/2 directing teams, but they also needed to get out of Manhattan to avoid limiting what the show was. This also opened up more stories to tell, and it helped create hope, as the original group of gargoyles was clearly headed to extinction. This helped to justify Goliath's basic optimism. It also made it possible to create a lot of "back-door" pilots to establish the extended Gargoyles adventure universe that never quite got going.

13: If there were an episode where the characters were body-switched, who would you want to see switched? Thom wants to do Goliath with Lexington's voice; Hudson/Angela was also mentioned.

That was all there was time for. I headed back out to my hotel to type all this up, the pop of fireworks behind me, the smoke of fireworks clouding the skyscrapers ahead.

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

Welcome back, Battle Beast!
Todd Jensen

Sadly, I am not in Minneapolis, but I'm with y'all in spirit!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

BLAISE and JURGAN are here too?!

If you see a guy with a GOLIATH plush, that’s me!

Battle Beast
That is all I will say.

Wow.

I haven’t posted here in (Dark) AGES, but the room still remembers my name and colors. Nice to see TODD, BLAISE, And others I remember are still posting!

CONvergence making me nostalgic!

Shout out to MATT for finding me and saying hi! ^_^

Battle Beast
That is all I will say.

Watching The Thing right now. If you see Keith, let him no I said his performance is still good.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

****Blaise "poofs" back in.****

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to say:
Happy 4th of July to everyone from the USA!

****Blaise vanishes in an explosion of fireworks.****

Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor

****Blaise rides into the room on a tiny jet plane.****

Flying out of LAX headed for CONVergence now! I look forward to seeing the folks who are there!

****Blaise revs up the jet and takes off at supersonic speed.****

Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor

A happy Fourth of July to all. And if you're at CONvergence, I'll be the average if impish fellow with no hair and a brown fedora.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Happy Fourth of July! (The first Fourth of July since "Fourth of July" was mentioned in "Gargoyles" - cf. #12 of "Here in Manhattan" - and I wonder how long it'll be before the visiting bots plagiarize that remark.)
Todd Jensen

Nice!!! Whenever the Room resets, I always review the comments from the previous week to make sure I don't miss anything important.
www.groundeffects-ltd.ca - [groundeffectsltd at hotmail dot com]

After a long and rather "balmy" train ride--someone else's description for the train having a broken air conditioner--I've arrived in Minneapolis, got my badge, and not much else so far. I'll probably do more exploring tomorrow morning.

I do look forward to meeting some of you hereabouts. If you look for the huge middle-aged Middle Westerner with the sparse gray and brown hair, the beige "S&C" cap, green-covered reporter's notebook, and an expression of complete perplexity, that'll probably be me. (If you want to run around asking other people if they're "morrand", that's all right with me too. Maybe we can get a running joke started.)

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

CONvergence hasn't even started and I already got to meet Keith David!
This is going to be something indeed.

Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

MATT - Yep, the Central West End. I still have fond memories of it.

And have a great time at CONvergence!

Todd Jensen

I have arrived!

Todd> Yes, for a while there I believe we both lived in the same neighborhood (Central West End). We have never met I'm sad to say, but I'm fairly confident that I saw you walking a time or two!

Off to explore!

Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Safe travels to everyone attending ConVergence! I wish I could be there, and I look forward to hearing about it.
Craig

Have a nice trip, everyone!

MATT - Your post felt all the more "like old times" to me, since I used to live in St. Louis. (I moved to Phoenix nine years ago - I still miss St. Louis at times, though.)

Todd Jensen

I think a few of us who are attending will be popping in here on occasion. I'm hitting the road momentarily. Driving to Minneapolis from St. Louis! This is exciting. It really feels like old times!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Oh, that's quite the terrifying evolution from the bots there.

Anyways, I wish all of those who are attending Convergence a wonderful time! I sadly won't be attending for financial reasons, as well as obligations elsewhere. Hope to see some documentation of it here!

Kate

It's certainly given new meaning to "Christmas in July".
Todd Jensen

That is a bizarre new twist in the bot toolbox. Fun fun.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Now the bots are plagiarizing posts; I recognized that one as one I'd made about "A Christmas Carol" here some time ago.
Todd Jensen

I pray that this Christmas is wonderful for all of you.

Read "A Christmas Carol" on Christmas Eve (Christmas this year) or Christmas itself, as is my tradition every year. Some parts of the book that I think are worth discussing haven't gotten the exposure of "Bah, humbug!" or "And God bless us, everyone!" but I've mentioned them previously (I remember posting this on my first Christmas here, back in 1996).

1. To set the stage for the plot, Dickens states right away that Jacob Marley is dead—as dead as a door-nail—and emphasizes this point throughout the book. Before admitting it's too late to modify it, he says he's always puzzled why "dead as a door-nail" is used instead of "dead as a coffin-nail" because door-nails don't seem particularly dead.

2. It is said that Ebenezer Scrooge lived in "a gloomy suite of rooms, in a lowering pile of building up a yard, where it had so little business to be, that one could scarcely help fancying it must have run there when it was a young house, playing at hide-and-seek with other houses, and have forgotten the way out again" .

"How it is that I appear before you in a shape that you can see, I may not tell," Marley tells Scrooge in his conversation with him. I have spent countless days sitting quietly at your side. Nobody can blame Scrooge for being concerned by that information.

geometry dash - [waderatke608 at gmail dot com]

TODD> We're ironing out the details, but it should be.
Greg Bishansky

A question about the "Gargoyles" events at CONvergence. I've picked up that there'll be a live podcast of "Voices from the Eyrie" at the convention. Will this still be available (in some "recorded" format) afterwards, alongside all the other podcasts in the series?

Also, not directly connected to "Gargoyles", but this morning, when I was buying more kitty litter at the local pet shop, the woman in front of me at the check-out counter was wearing a shirt with "Scotland" on the front, and in the back, besides the Scottish thistle, a quote from the Declaration of Arbroath (a sort of medieval Scottish counterpart to the Declaration of Independence - see the entry on Arbroath Abbey at GargWiki (https://gargwiki.net/Arbroath_Abbey) for more information, including the quote in question). Given the gargoyles' links to Scotland and its history, I thought it was worth mentioning here.

Todd Jensen

Ninth?
Kate

Eighth!

Really looking forward to CONVergence!

Greg Bishansky

Seventh!

I am a poor grad student and can't afford the trip to Minneapolis, but I will be checking in here over the week. Keep me updated!

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Sixth!

I will be there as well. If any of you spot me, please say hi. I'm eager to meet Comment Room folks I have not already and excited to see people I have not seen in 15 years!

I'll also be a panelist for the Gargoyles Culture and Biology Panel. Hope to see you there!

Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"

Fifth, and I, too, am very much looking forward to CONvergence.

I'm also happy to take notes for anyone who's not going. (I may even be able to make them interesting notes.)

morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]

Fourth.

Hot July brings cooling showers,
Apricots and gillyflowers.

From "The Garden Year" by Sara Coleridge

I won't be attending CONvergence, but I wish everyone who will be attending it well.

Todd Jensen

Looking forward to attending my THIRD ever, Gargoylres-related convention this week :D
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

SECOND-ing how much I'm looking forward to CONvergence!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"If you run you gain one, but if you move forward you gain two." - Suletta Mercury

First off, can't believe Convergence is this week, I've been looking forward to this for some time. You know it's funny, off all the things to be excited about: my first time travelling to the Midwest, the audition for the radio play. The thing that has me most intrigued is getting to meet so many fans, like the assembly here, in the flesh.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!