Well Xanatos wasn't entirely lying when he said that the richer you are, the more enemies you have.

Just not because they're being put upon unfairly.XD
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Oct 27, 2024 6:22:51 pm EDT from 68.119.3.1

CRAIG - We get a glimpse of a few of those gargoyles in the opening sequence, where they're circling about in the air over the castle, and one (who looks much like Brooklyn, but with tusks) heads for the camera.

Something I forgot to mention in my review of "Awakening Part One" on Thursday. When Goliath awakens for the first time in the series, we see his eyes glowing a greenish hue, rather than the more regular white.

Re-watched "Awakening Part Two" today. We get the wrap-up of the medieval sequence, which was, as I mentioned, my favorite part of "Awakening" - though there's plenty of good material in the modern-day scenes, as we'll see.

Hudson shows his observation skills in noting that the bows were sabotaged. (And, in "Awakening Part One", he also notes that the Vikings' horses' hoofprints seem too light - leading to the discovery that the Vikings with the horses were deliberately luring the gargoyles away.)

One of my favorite moments in the episode is when the surviving gargoyles all glide off from the castle battlements to pursue the Vikings, and then we see Bronx dashing out the castle gates in a fury.

Hakon and the Captain of the Guard die by falling off a cliff - a regular Standards & Practices way of killing off characters when you have to have them die. But I suspect that, even if "Gargoyles" had been in a different medium where Standards & Practices wasn't involved, they'd have still been written as dying that way. A major element in the early part of "Awakening" is Goliath suffering one blow after another, leading to the point where he no longer wants to live and makes his suicide request (more about that below). The castle is sacked, and nearly all the gargoyles slaughtered, including (he thinks) his "Angel in the Night". (As I wrote this, I found myself recalling the scene in "Macbeth" where Macduff receives the news that his castle was sacked and his family all slaughtered. And in the "Weird Macbeth" proposal - which I hope Dynamite will get to turn into a story, of course - Goliath was "cast" as Macduff. That casting seems all the more appropriate now.) He and the few surviving gargoyles pursue the Vikings, only to discover that the Captain, Goliath's friend and the one human left in the castle (apart from Tom, who was there as a refugee rather than a regular resident) to reach out to the gargoyles, was the one who'd let the Vikings in, leading to all those deaths. The manner of deaths for the Captain and Hakon therefore adds to the blows - he can't even get the dubious satisfaction of killing them. The Law of Gravity beats him to it. Which sets him up as all the more devastated - and with one final blow awaiting him....

One thing that struck me for the first time - the Magus mistakenly believing that Princess Katharine is dead and letting out his fury on the gargoyles as a result now feels almost like a foreshadowing echo of Goliath, in "Hunter's Moon Part Three", believing that Elisa died at the dam and going after the two remaining Hunters in extra rage.

And we have the moment where a despairing Goliath begs the Magus to turn him to stone - and I like the way he phrases it (see below). It reminds me of when an English class I was taking in college studied "Frankenstein" and a scene where Victor Frankenstein destroys the mate he was going to make for the monster; the monster angrily tells Victor "I shall be with you on your wedding-night", and then, on that same night, kills Victor's bride in vengeance. The teacher commented that the threat is all the more effective by the way it's worded, more ominous than if the monster had simply said "I will kill your bride". Similarly, I think that Goliath's line, below, is all the more effective by the way it's worded, not just "Turn me to stone too."

I hadn't realized, until Greg Weisman pointed it out, that it was a suicide request. I think it's easy to miss it, because we know that the series is just starting, and are seeing the events as the vehicle for transferring these medieval gargoyles to the modern world. But when we look at it from Goliath's perspective - yes, he doesn't even suspect that someday, the castle could rise above the clouds. He's not seeing this as being with the other gargoyles when they're re-awakened. He sees them as trapped in stone sleep for good, and chooses to join them. And the scene of him at the end, perched on the tower battlements, in a Rodin's "Thinker"-like pose, makes it all the more effective. (And I like the choice of that pose; it shows that Goliath's got a deeper side to him than just a warrior - the side that will show itself when we see him, in episodes to come, reading classic literature, for example.)

And we then shift to a thousand years later and Xanatos and Owen at the castle. I began wondering, when I last watched the series all the way through five years ago, whom Xanatos bought the castle from; it'd be neat if we get a story from Dynamite (most likely the "Timedancer" adventure where Brooklyn sets up the meeting between Xanatos and Demona) revealing it. (As I said back then, I suspect that the castle was privately owned, since I doubt even Xanatos could have bought it from the National Trust or Historic Scotland.)

The gargoyles' re-awakening is a big moment. We get their joy at being awake and free from the Magus's spell. (And it's all the more moving when you remember that Goliath wasn't expecting that to happen - see above. For him, it's the kind of surprise "good twist" that J. R. R. Tolkien called a "eucatastrophe".) Followed by the moment where they see their new surroundings and are staring at them. This is another really great touch; they make the familiar sight of modern-day Manhattan seem strange and wondrous, thanks to our seeing it through the gargoyles' eyes.

Xanatos tells the gargoyles that the eggs are gone and they're the last gargoyles left; we'll learn later, of course, that both statements are incorrect, but it's still a serious blow to them. We see Lexington bowing his head in sorrow, eyes closed. (I remember Greg Weisman, in his ramble on this episode, asking whether, when we found out the truth about Xanatos, we reconsidered his statement about the eggs. I'll admit that I didn't; since we knew, independent of Xanatos, that a thousand years had gone by, I'd assumed that the eggs had long ago hatched, and the gargoyles who'd hatched from them had grown up, lived out their lives, and died. I hadn't counted on a place where time flowed at a different rate. Of course, I should have considered the fact that the mere fact that the eggs got in, with Goliath entrusting them to Princess Katharine, meant that they'd have to return, or why include them at all?)

The gargoyles get another taste of the way the world's changed when the Commandos show up, armed with weaponry that would seem familiar to modern-day action stories but seems strange and new to the clan. I noted again Hudson mistaking their helicopter for a dragon; it feels a bit different now, since we know that Hudson - and the other surviving gargoyles (apart from Bronx) - had actually come face to face with a dragon, back in their old lives.

And Xanatos, fighting alongside the gargoyles, gives Goliath a little nod after dealing with the Commando attacking him. That moment reminded me of Goliath and the Captain fighting side by side against the Vikings, back in Part One - with the ominous element that Xanatos himself will turn on Goliath later (with the difference that he'd been using Goliath from the start, of course). And a bit of dialogue below strengthens my suspicion that the production team was going for this echo.

We get the opening scene in Part One (the rocks falling off the Eyrie Building to the alarm of everyone below, Elisa arriving on the scene and finding the clawmarks on the stone) again, this time woven into the fight with the Commandos; a good touch.

Lexington shows some rapport with Bronx here; he runs to hug the gargoyle beast after the gargoyles' big awakening, and in the aftermath of the fight, we see him petting Bronx. (Bronx distinguished himself well in the fight; I still get a kick out of the scene where he's chasing a commando through a breach in one of the walls, barking at him).

And we see Goliath still bitter over the Captain's betrayal, and unwilling to trust humans again. Fortunately, that will change - thanks to a certain detective below who's resolved to find out just what was going on up there....

QUOTES.

GOLIATH: I've been denied everything - even my revenge!

GOLIATH: Now I am truly alone.

GOLIATH (to the Magus): There is one thing you can do. Cast your spell one more time.

GOLIATH (to the rest of the clan): We're awake! We're alive! We're together again!


XANATOS: Thank you. Without you and your friends, who knows what those thugs might have done?

GOLIATH: Someone I once trusted said the same thing to me, and then destroyed my people.


OFFICER MORGAN: What do you suppose that was all about, Detective?

ELISA: I don't know, but I'm going to find out.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Oct 26, 2024 8:19:33 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

One of the things I adore about the first part of "Awakening" is all the different gargoyle character models we see. Even though we don't get to know them, it's such a visual delight seeing all those distinct designs; it lends such a sense of reality to the clan. Kudos to Frank Paur, directors Kazuo Terada and Saburo Hashimoto, and character designers Kazuyoshi Takeuchi and Kenichi Tsuchiya for creating such a rich and diverse palette of character models, which for the most part only appear onscreen for a matter of seconds. I love freeze-framing those group shots. Almost every character feels so fully-realized, unlike the generic b.g. models you'd expect to see on a 1990s show. Some of the models were later reused with different colorization (prototype versions of Demona's Second and Schnozz appear in there), but for the most part, those models remain exclusive to that episode. It would be cool to see some of them return in a future Dark Ages story, and be fleshed out more.
Craig
posted @ Sat, Oct 26, 2024 3:42:16 am EDT from 69.118.30.106

MALIBU - Welcome back.

MATTHEW - Good theory about the trio's original names from Alesand. those names were much classier than the New York place names they'd adopt after waking up, but I think those names fitted their new lives in Manhattan better.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Oct 25, 2024 8:05:44 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Good look into the first episode, Todd. With the context of "Dark Ages" the tone of disgust from the Captain's line, "They're not my kind." carries a lot more depth. He and so many from the Wyvern Clan were there since the beginning of the alliance. Heck, there probably wouldn't even be a Castle Wyvern without the assistance of the clan and yet for years they had been treated as monsters or at best, glorified guard dogs.

As for the Trio forgetting about the names Alesand gave them, I always chalked it up to the fact that Goliath's name came from the fact multiple people used it for him while Alesand was the only one use those names for the Trio and Antiope. And she bequeathed those names while they slept so chances are they didn't develop the same attachment like they did later when they awoke in Manhattan.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, Oct 25, 2024 6:33:19 pm EDT from 135.180.3.149

I was having some thoughts about fandoms in general and ended up with the urge to visit this site again. I'm glad to see it's still around! I looked at the comment room and not only was I delighted to see it still active, but pleased to see all the messages about Gargoyles' 30th anniversary.

It's been quite a long time--many years, in fact--since I've used this name online, but figured I would use it for this post for old time's sake. :)

I didn't start watching the show right away. I started watching in 1995, I think, and once my family got internet access, most of my online time was centered around this site and the other popular Gargoyles sites from the late 90s. I largely moved onto the furry fandom in the early 2000s, but Gargoyles and its fandom still holds a special place in my heart. :)

I don't want to ramble on too much, so I'll just say a BIG thank you to Greg Weisman and everyone who worked on the show and related media for creating something special. I would also like to say a thank you to the people who I knew in Gargoyles fandom for creating websites, writing stories, creating artwork and for just being friends who I could nerd out about the show with. :)
Malibu
posted @ Fri, Oct 25, 2024 12:18:13 pm EDT from 94.1.71.101

This day is called the Feast of Crispian;
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named.
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall see this day and live t'old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Saint Crispian":
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars
And say "These wounds I had on Crispin's day".
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remembered.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now abed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[I'm currently reading a book on Henry V, by the way, which had one little passage that I thought might amuse the comment room. At one point, it mentioned Henry reading a knightly romance set in the period shortly before King Arthur's reign, and then commented in a footnote that "Prequels and origin stories are as essential a part of the medieval Arthurian canon as they are of the modern-day Marvel Cinematic Universe".)

CRAIG - Thanks for your appreciation of my review [SPOILER] and your research on the auction [/SPOILER]. I forgot to mention a couple of moments in "Awakening Part One" that I found amusing and showed that the series wouldn't be all solemnness. One was the moment where Goliath, banishing the trio to the rookery adds, "And take him with you," pointing at Bronx - at which Bronx hangs his head and whines in a guilty or ashamed manner - a manner very familiar to anyone who's scolded a dog. (Greg Weisman once commented on that part, mentioning how his dogs will act the same way when they've been caught doing something naughty; his cats, on the other hand....) The second is the scene where Broadway's peeling off a bit of cave moss or whatever it is in the rookery and sniffing at it before he eats it; the expression on his face as he's sniffing at it is hilarious.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Oct 25, 2024 9:32:32 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

Ok, I'm psychotic (and an insomniac), so I did a little more sleuthing on that Voices from the Eyrie tidbit from Greg...

[SPOILER]
On November 17, 1997, Christie's Geneva held an auction, "The Property of a Private Collector," which appears to have been comprised entirely of jewelry pieces. One item auctioned off was a three-strand black pearl necklace which had once belonged to the tragic Nina Dyer. Previously purchased at auction in 1969 by an anonymous buyer, it sold in 1997 to another anonymous buyer for $913,320 USD. Pictures of the necklace look similar to what is depicted in Quest #3. So, other than the date being off by one day (and the fact that the necklace was made by Cartier in 1955, which Greg may not have been aware of or is just ignoring), this may be what he was thinking of. Here's the listing, as archived on Christie's website (note that the price here is in Swiss francs): https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-540730
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Fri, Oct 25, 2024 4:00:56 am EDT from 69.118.30.106

****A great wind blows through the room and all is engulfed in darkness for a brief moment before two flames spring to life from two candles shaped like the numbers 3 and 0. The candles sit atop a rather cube shaped cake: 30" on each side, making for a VERY thick baked good (covered in buttercream frosting!). Then the flames from the candles shoot as high as the ceiling and morph into the form of Blaise.****

HAPPY 30TH ANNIVERSARY FOR "GARGOYLES"!!

I suppose I'll admit that I was 14 when this came out, having anticipated it since seeing the trailer on the "Nightmare Before Christmas" VHS. I tuned in at 7am on that Monday, October 24th and had one simple request: "Please don't be stupid." Well...it wasn't! :-D

I am watching "Awakening" tonight myself as well to commemorate this occasion.

I'd write more, but doing it on my phone is a bit...difficult.
(My apartment's internet is out so this is my only option at the moment.)

Here's to 30 wonderful years of this show!
****Blaise reaches down and grabs himself a slice of cake before dissipating into smoke.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 11:38:55 pm EDT from 174.243.144.250

Todd > Thanks for the thorough review of "Awakening." I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on the other episodes.

Regarding the revelation from last night's Voices from the Eyrie, [SPOILER] I did some googling, and the best I've come up with so far is an auction held at Christie's Geneva on that date comprised of books belonging to jeweler Theodore Horovitz, who had passed in 1996. It appears that that auction was made up solely of books. It's certainly possible that other effects--such as jewelry--were sold at a separate auction, although I haven't been able to find any evidence of this. Still, Horovitz is an intriguing figure, and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole. First of all, he's originally from Egypt, which obviously potentially ties in to the Cleopatra angle. The little snippets of information I was able to turn up on him indicate that he had a rather colorful career. One article about a high-profile 1980s diamond-smuggling operation casually mentions that Horovitz was one of the people receiving the goods (although he doesn't appear to have ever been charged). Other articles recount his purchase at auction of an ultra-rare purple-red diamond ("the most expensive material on Earth" at the time) for $880,000 (slightly less than Antoinette's $900,000!); and his unsuccessful bid for the golden "Incomparable Diamond," the third-largest cut diamond in existence. (Horovitz's bid of $12 million was the highest bid ever for a single stone at the time but didn't meet the seller's asking price, and the stone was withdrawn from auction.) Most intriguingly, though, he is linked to the Blue Belle of Asia, a renowned sapphire discovered in 1926 in Sri Lanka. The Blue Belle, at least as it appears today, is attached to an Egyptian-style necklace somewhat resembling the one we see in Quest #3; however, it does not appear that the Blue Belle was on auction in 1997. It seems to have remained in the hands of unidentified private owners from 1937 until it was auctioned at Christie's Geneva in 2014...BUT, Horovitz's personal notes from the 1970s intriguingly feature detailed drawings and analysis of the Blue Belle.

All of which is to say...if there were a priceless necklace of mysterious/dubious origin such as Cleopatra's Necklace, Mr. Horovitz certainly seems like the kind of man who could have owned it! However, I think I've hit a bit of a dead end in my research for now. Looking forward to seeing what others turn up. [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 11:24:40 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Incidentally, the Disney Animated Television News site on YouTube just came out with a couple of special videos for "Gargoyles"'s 30th anniversary.

Check them out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmyy_kq1uSA&t=169s

And here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPxM_qiKIec&t=33s
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 9:41:56 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Just finished listening to the latest "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast. [SPOILER] The information about the auction in Geneva was especially exciting; I hadn't expected that, and will be certainly looking up that necklace now. I also enjoyed the expanded introduction, and the fanart accompanying it - particularly Brooklyn trying to get Bronx away from the microphone. [/SPOILER]

I also rewatched "Awakening Part One" to celebrate "Gargoyles"'s 30th anniversary. I'm hoping to watch the rest of the first two seasons in the weeks to come; the last time I watched them all in order was for the 25th anniversary. I'm looking for ways to keep my comments on them this time around different from last time. (I do recall that my biggest take-away for the 25th anniversary viewing was how often human attacks on gargoyles were described as "hunting"; it certainly gave new significance to "Hunter's Moon" for me.)

So, my review. (Some of these remarks are ones I've made here before; I hope those who've read them on those earlier occasions won't mind.)

The first thing that struck me as I watched this episode again was how the opening made it clear that this was not your typical Disney animated series. The animation style, and the serious tone of the rocks falling off the Eyrie Building in front of an alarmed crowd, made that clear. (And their being humans probably helped it stand out more, since most of the "Disney Afternoon" shows were set in worlds populated by intelligent animals rather than humans - with a few exceptions, of course, such as "Adventures of the Gummi Bears", "Rescue Rangers", and "Bonkers".)

But the part that really grabbed me, once again, was when the story shifted to a siege of a medieval Scottish castle. I remember when I watched this episode for the first time and was absolutely thrilled by it. I'm a long-time medievalist (amateur), and really liked that element. I even had to keep reminding myself that this would be just the "origin story" for the gargoyles, and that the bulk of the series would be set in the present day. I've mentioned this before, but the sequence reminded me a lot of an animated television adaptation of David Macaulay's "Castle" that aired on PBS some years before; the atmosphere was very similar. (It might be just a coincidence, but the name of the castle in Macaulay's book and the television adaptation was "Aberwyvern". I still wonder whether they originally named the gargoyles' castle "Wyvern" as a tribute to it.)

We know now that the Captain of the Guard's name was Robbie, but I thought it appropriate that he was called only by his title/office throughout. At this point, the gargoyles (apart from Goliath) didn't have names, and the Captain himself apparently bearing no name matched his feeling closer to the gargoyles than to the other humans (expressed, particularly, by his remark to Hakon - see below). Though since the Magus also went by only a title and he wasn't fond of the gargoyles at that point, I might be reading too much into that.

(From the perspective of "Dark Ages: Alliance", we can notice a few missing faces - who, of course, probably hadn't been thought up yet by the production team, but whose absence could be the material for future stories in this era. No sign of Lefty, Hyppolyta, or Antiope. I suspect that both Lefty and Antiope had left the castle by that point - whether by death or migration, I won't speculate. Lefty was most likely gone by 984, since Goliath was then serving as Hudson's second-in-command (Lefty's old role) by that point. Since the trio were down to just a trio, I think it safe to assume that Antiope was no longer residing in the castle, as well. As for Hyppolyta, Greg Weisman did mention her as being among the casualties of the Wyvern Massacre, though that's canon-in-training, at this point. No sign of Alesand, either - and her absence certainly fits the Captain's increasingly dark mood, with only the gargoyles for friends.

Also from the perspective of "Dark Ages: Alliance", it's tempting to wonder whether Brooklyn and Lexington, when young Tom approached them, felt reminded of Alesand's visits twenty-three years before. Since they see Goliath as the only member of the clan with a name, they'd clearly forgotten about the names Alesand picked for them.)

This time around, when Hakon encounters Bronx (who makes his debut in the series that way), I found myself imagining him wondering for a moment, as he sets eyes on the gargoyle beast, whether Garm had gotten out of the underworld early, ahead of Ragnarok.

I've probably mentioned this here before, but I still wonder whether Greg Weisman's ever felt tempted to somehow replace the "generic gargoyle" that Hakon smashes in front of the horrified Captain with "Othello". (They must not have come up with his character design yet when they were making this scene.)

And I still get a thrill in the way the "Next Time on Gargoyles" ends, with Elisa's "I'm going to find out" leading into the first-ever "title sequence" of "Gargoyles", coming at the end. (Not the last time that Disney would do something like that; I recall that in the very first episode of "The Owl House", the title only appeared at the very end as well.)

QUOTES (inspired by a regular feature in Matthew's episode reviews).

ELISA: Clawmarks?.... What could be strong enough to leave clawmarks in solid stone?


TOM (after finding out that the gargoyles don't have names): But what do you call each other?

BROOKLYN: Friend.


HAKON: Not that I'm ungrateful, but why? Why betray your kind?

CAPTAIN OF THE GUARD: They're not my kind.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 9:17:17 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Happy 30th Anniversary Gargoyles!!!!!!

I may have been 2 years Old when the Show Came out, But as the years Passed, I remember seeing the First Trailers of the Awakening on VHS on 2 of My Video Tapes when I was 3! Then sometime around the age of 4 or 5 I remember getting a Glimpse of one of the Avalon Tour Episodes on the Tv! Then Years Later when I was 14 I got Curious and got the First season On DVD at the Library and Started the First few Episodes, Then I got a little Put off at First ONLY because I felt Bad for how the Gargoyles got Treated and what Happened to them! Then as the Years Passed I've Been Doing My Homework and looked more Info on the Show and What Happens, then Started other Episodes! Then Thanks to a Special Friend I got More and MORE Into it!

And Now, at Age 32, it's My ABSOLUTE FAVORITE Disney Afternoon Show! My Sketchbooks are FULL Of Gargoyles Fanart and I got ALL The DVD's And Comics!

And to Mr. Greg Weisman and ANYONE Else who worked on the series if you're Reading this, This Show is TRULY Your Masterpiece! And I hope Hearing the phrase from a True Special Fan makes it more Worth it!
Emily The Disney Fan - [esidorowicz at Yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 9:14:00 pm EDT from 24.187.3.80

Happy 30th Anniversary, all! And especially to you, Greg!

Since I was...3 when "Awakening" premiered, I wasn't around QUITE from the beginning, but this franchise has been near and dear to my heart ever since I started watching it with the launch of Toon Disney in 1998. It's wild to consider just how much my life has been impacted from 7-year-old me tuning into a certain cartoon - entirely because at that age, I was obsessed with any show where the heroes were all different colors.

CONvergence 2014 and 2024 were both incredible capstones on that legacy, and I'm hoping it doesn't take until 2034 for our extended Clan to have a repeat!
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"You said everything has a name. I'll name this ability of mine too. 'Stone Free.' Because I'll become free of this ocean of stone." - Jolyne Cujoh
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 2:23:20 pm EDT from 76.173.137.179

Happy Anniversary, GARGOYLES fans!!!

Thanks to all of you have been here all these years - and those of you who've joined more recently. It's been a long journey... but of course, it's NEVER THE END...
Greg Weisman
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 1:37:21 pm EDT from 70.227.91.143

Thirty years. Wow, that is something.
Especially considering the ephemeral nature of modern entertainment.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 1:32:11 pm EDT from 135.180.3.149

Happy 30th anniversary, "Gargoyles"! I'm looking forward to the new "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast this evening, and hope to re-watch "Awakening Part One" today (and from there, to watch the rest of the series in the days and weeks to come, just as I did for the 25th anniversary).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 9:50:42 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

Happy 30th to Gargoyles! I was 12 when it first aired. I would certainly be amazed that new material was still coming out 30 years later, but I think I'd be even more amazed to hear that Gargoyles would go on to have such an impact on my life. The lessons it taught me, the world and literature and culture it introduced me to, and the people I have met. I would not be the 42 year old man I am today without Gargoyles, so I am truly thankful for the show, the cast and crew and this fandom.

Considering where we were at 15, 20, and 25 years, I wonder how things might be at 35! Never The End!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 8:35:00 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

Thirty years of Gargoyles!

Here's to thirty more!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 7:44:37 am EDT from 67.189.200.184

Happy anniversary to Gargoyles!

Also, welcome back to the Voices crew!

Great to hear that Quest is well in train and when Greg calls something "momentous" that's got some hype to it.

And feels appropriate that Kathy Pogge gets a shout-out on the 30th - what a fascinating find!
Ed
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 7:27:05 am EDT from 86.140.47.27

What better way to acknowledge the anniversary of "Awakening: Part One" -- THIRTY years ago today -- than to enjoy the latest from Voices from the Eyrie!

In the year that NECA releases the "Vows" set completing the figurine versions of the Three Keys from the original series, Greg Weisman introduces the latest iteration of the Three Keys into canon [SPOILER] (and we get some truly exciting real world background on one of them in tonight's Voices!) [/SPOILER]. We lost Renard and gained a Wyvern. For every answer we learn about Shahrizad, two more questions take their place in my rent-free mind. Les Miserables and the Pied Piper enter the canon. I wouldn't be surprised if another Val-character is around the corner, lol.

But, of course, in a year for me that began with seeing a holiday-light Demona featured at the Phoenix Zoo (and a new Demona Funko pop this summer), the absolute real highlight was CONvergence. I still owe my own conjournals to the queue before the year is done*, but in short, it was a wonderful experience throughout my time in Minneapolis.

No doubt everyone in this comment room saw this months ago (in person or online), but I revisited it yesterday, and particularly continue to love the answers (and reactions) to the question asked at 26:30 . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-5xBlw7Ue8

While I not-so-patiently wait for Issues #4 and $5 of Quest to arrive (along with the Winter Special!), I'm overjoyed to hear that there's more in store for 2025. So once again, a Never the end toast to all those who brought this show to our lives thirty years ago and to those that continue to bring new stories to life in the years to come!

*(I swear, the actual convention bits were written way back in July, I just haven't gone about proofreading them yet.)
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 4:16:06 am EDT from 68.2.64.232

Happy 30th anniversary, Gargoyles fans! If I could harness the Phoenix Gate and tell the little ten-year-old version of me who'd just watched "Awakening" that he'd still be getting brand-new Gargoyles stories when he was 40, I think he'd have been very pleased. I was completely in awe after watching that first episode. It feels like yesterday. I can't believe how quickly the decades fly by, nor can I believe how lucky we are to be living in this Renaissance era for the property.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Oct 24, 2024 1:22:15 am EDT from 69.118.30.106

CRAIG - Yep, mine is the version that includes the "Zootopia" mention. I'd read about the #666 one, and agree that it was a cheeky one.

On Disney comic sales in Europe: I spent much of my boyhood in England, and subscribed to a Disney comic called "Mickey Mouse". One of the main things I remember about it was that it converted mentions of U.S. currency in the original comics to British currency; they even renamed Scrooge McDuck's No. 1 Dime to his "Lucky Penny". (Which shows that it's not just the Americans making those changes in "translation".)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Oct 23, 2024 7:59:06 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Thanks for the writeups on "Mickey's Inferno," Todd and Carumbo. Europe, and Italy in particular, have such a rich history of Disney comics. One of the things I love when I'm in Europe is going into shops and flipping through the many many different titles. It makes me sad that Disney comics have never caught on the same way in the U.S. during my lifetime, and at this point likely never will due to changing cultural sensibilities.

There have been at least two English-language translations of the "Mickey's Inferno" comic. The first U.S. publication was in 2006, in Walt Disney's Comics & Stories #666 (putting a comic about hell into issue 666 is a great cheeky touch by the publisher that presumably Disney's S&P people missed). The trend of inserting modern references into translations of decades-old Disney comics is something that seems to happen a lot, and I do find it rather grating (I believe the version that Todd read also has a reference in the dialogue to Disney's 'Zootopia,' which came out the same year that version was published). I understand that they're trying to make the comics more appealing to kids by inserting contemporary references, but given that the U.S. market for Disney comics these days seems to be comprised mostly of adult collectors, such an attempt seems pointless.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Oct 23, 2024 7:36:23 pm EDT from 69.118.30.106

Thanks for sharing the differences between the translation and the original. It's not the first time I've come across that; the English translation of "Asterix the Gaul" has also used different cultural references from the French original (for example, there was a scene in one book where Asterix gets into a sword fight with a Roman ex-legionary; in the original French, the accompanying dialogue was taken from Edmond Rostand's "Cyrano de Bergerac", but the English translation replaced it with lines from the fencing match between Hamlet and Laertes). So I wasn't surprised to learn about the similar translation changes.

And they used the terza rima rhyming scheme in the English translation as well (something I forgot to mention in my review, and should have).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Oct 23, 2024 9:08:11 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

Todd - Oh oh, starting to get into actual culture, are we?

I jest, but here in Italy Mickey's Inferno is simply revered by Disney comics fans (which are much, MUCH more numerous than they are in the States), to the point that it has been reprinted more than any other italian story (over 30 reprints throughout the decades). The thing that makes it an extraordinary parody is that, at the end of every panel (aside from the first couple of pages) there are three or more verses written in the style of the actual Divine Comedy (so all of them have eleven syllables and all of them use "terza rima"): this was such an enormous undertaking, and so well made, that writer Guido Martina was allowed to actually put his name on the story, which was unheard of back then and for several decades to come.

Still, I'd argue that you haven't read the actual story, Todd, because you haven't read it in the original italian: I'm not usually an absolutist about these things, but Mickey's Inferno is so chock-full of italian colloquialisms and plays on words that if you're reading a translation you are, for all intents and purposes, reading a different thing (not necessarily a bad story, but a different thing).

Case in point: all of the references to the story you made in your post are somewhat (or a lot) different in the original. That reference to Nietzsche? Originally a reference to the Catilinarian conspiracy. Not-Filippo Argenti being a troll critic attacked by Internet trolls? Originally an angry teacher attacked by his angry students. Ugolino? Originally a football rather than a basketball referee (because football is the sport that makes people really angry here in Italy).

And the ending? [SPOILER] Rather than arguing that the parody will lead many children to the Comedy, Mickey argues, more simply and frankly more honestly, that the authours should be excused because they did it for the sake of amusing kids: "If the one has written silly verses, and the other drew them with silly characters, they did it for the joy of children! Listen! Listen to those kids! Don't you hear them scream how much fun they've had?" - at which point Dante agrees to let Martina and artist Angelo Bioletto go "on parole" (no reference to Milton) and the two tearfully promise to never do it again (which I guess is the canonical reason why there is no parody for the other two parts of the Comedy). And Dante's final words are not a quote from the original poem, but "new" verses where he laments the state of Italy in the post-World War II period and hopes to see it rise again (but they are written so well that they would fit in the actual Comedy just fine). [/SPOILER]

So yeah: great pick if you want to read an italian Disney story, and even the translated version sounds like fun (aside from that reference to the Internet, which is just cringy and out-of-place for a story from 1949/50) but I really think you need to read it in the original version to properly appreciate it.
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Wed, Oct 23, 2024 8:39:50 am EDT from 79.32.55.25

Thanks for sharing that one, Antiyonder - especially in light of who two of the letter-writers were.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 10:36:25 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Well just for full context, uploaded the pic of the letter page from Marvel's Gargoyles #4:

https://www.deviantart.com/antiyonder/art/Marvel-s-Gargoyles-letter-from-Zehra-Fazal-1112830875
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 10:27:47 pm EDT from 68.119.3.1

MATTHEW - I also remembered how your "Young Justice" reviews would include a little background piece from DC Comics about one or more of the characters from each episode. (If I were to ever do a similar episode-by-episode review of the 2017 "DuckTales" series, I'd like to do something similar on the Carl Barks and Don Rosa allusions and characters in each episode.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 9:58:17 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Time for something more substantial than three spambot posts (all from the same spambot, at that - either it couldn't remember it had been here before, or it was programmed to post numerous times until someone clicks on the link - and presumably promptly finds their entire bank account emptied and their computer riddled with viruses; I doubt that the spambots were working for a legitimate business).

Yesterday, I found and bought at the local library's "used book corner" a little Disney comic/graphic novel called "Mickey's Inferno". It's a reprint/English translation of an old Italian Mickey Mouse comic from 1949/50 which sent Mickey Mouse and Goofy on an adventure based on Dante's "Inferno". (Mickey and Goofy were playing Dante and Virgil in a stage adaptation of Dante's work, and Mickey's old enemy Pete got a hypnotist to delude them into believing that they actually were Dante and Virgil - for that matter, Mickey mistakes Minnie Mouse for Beatrice. They then fall asleep and dream that they're re-enacting Dante's journey through Hell.)

The journey, of course, is softened, thanks to its target audience. (For example, the Ugolino scene. In the original poem, Ugolino was a corrupt nobleman who was double-crossed by his partner in crime and imprisoned in a tower with his four sons, where they all starved to death; in the afterlife, Ugolino is gnawing on his betrayer's skull in revenge for eternity. In the Disney re-imagining, Ugolino was a crooked referee who refused to rule "foul" when a basketball team broke the rules at a championship game because they'd paid him a very big bribe, and so is condemned to gnaw on a basketball for eternity - until it bursts in a huge explosion.)

It includes several moments that were apparently aimed at adults from a "cultural literacy" perspective. For example, in one scene, where a group of teachers are being tormented in Hell by a crowd of delinquent schoolboys (based on the boys from Pleasure Island in "Pinocchio"), one of the schoolboys is pelting a teacher with an essay on Xenophon's "Anabasis" rolled up in a ball, while the other boys are shouting things like "Plato shoulda stayed inna cave!" and "Nietzsche is peachy, but licorice is quicker!" And when Mickey and Goofy are crossing the Stygian marsh, the counterpart of Filippo Argenti - here a sort of "troll critic" shouts at them, "You call yourself a poet? Do you even know what iambic pentameter is, let alone terza rima?" - "terza rima" being especially appropriate here, since it was the format that Dante wrote the "Commedia" in. (Mickey's response is "Who are you? The grammar police of the dead?" As in the original poem, the Filippo Argenti-counterpart gets attacked by a swarm of his inmates, who shout things like "Someone on the Internet is wrong!" and This link shows you how to save 95% on electronics!") [SPOILER] One of the big highlights comes at the end of the poem where Mickey and Goofy reach the core of Hell and discover, not a three-headed Satan gnawing on Judas Iscariot, Brutus, and Cassius as in the original poem, but the real Dante furiously confronting the writer and artist, accusing them of having betrayed his poem. Mickey begs Dante to spare them, pointing out that this spoof-poem will lead many children to the "Divine Comedy", and Dante is at last mollified - on the condition that: a) the writer and artist parody someone else, such as Milton (they decide to name the MIlton-parody "Disneyland Lost") and b) they conclude the book with some of Dante's actual verses, lamenting over the state of Italy in his day but ending on a note of hope; I ought to search through the "Divine Comedy" to see if I can identify that passage. [/SPOILER]

It includes a few cameos from other Disney characters, some familiar (Donald Duck, his nephews, Pluto - cast as the Pluto who accosts Dante and Virgil at the entrance to the fourth circle of Hell in the original poem, Dumbo, Doc and Dopey from "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" - Dopey, for once gets a speaking role, the Big Bad Wolf and Three Little Pigs, most of the cast from "Pinocchio" - except for Pinocchio himself - and Brer Rabbit, Brer Fox, and Brer Bear from "Song of the South" - which might make this book harder to find nowadays), others obscure (though maybe better known in the late 40's, when the book was originally written; the English translation dates from 2016). I'm not sure how easy it'll be to find nowadays (used bookstores and library sales are the most likely places), but I thought it'd be worth sharing here, given that this comment room is dedicated to another unusual Disney property.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 9:29:33 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Todd> I forgot I also led the book read of the two Rain novels, I definitely remember the burnout I had afterward. I remember the favorite lines started as a way to share funny jokes I liked from Spider-Man and by the time I got to Young Justice it tied into the Acting MVP portion for each episode.

Antiyonder> I should add the Owl House to my October watchlist. It's pretty clear the folks who worked on it are total Halloweenies.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
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posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 2:38:48 pm EDT from 143.44.184.22

Finishing The Owl House again and will be watching Gargoyles and The Ghost & Molly McGee for some Halloween binges.

Already finished Little Witch Academia, some Arthur episodes (Anyone ever watch this?), plus some Scooby-Doo animated movies.

Also looking to check out Ruby Gloom (2000s cartoon) and Fright Krewe.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 2:58:29 am EDT from 68.119.3.1

MATTHEW - Yes. (I remember you even covered both "Rain of the Ghosts" books as well - not to mention "The Owl House" in a similar format, though that wasn't one of Greg Weisman's own works.)

I've been thinking of, this time around, following your example in including favorite lines from each episode.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 12:51:04 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

I decided to look back on the week you speaking of, Todd. That was when you started your rewatch of both seasons of Gargoyles which in turn inspired me to cover both Spectacular and YJ.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Oct 22, 2024 12:42:03 am EDT from 135.180.3.149

I was rereading the posts for the week in 2019 that October 24 (the anniversary of "Gargoyles") fell on, and noticed that, both that year and this one, October 24 fell on a Thursday. Talk about a weird coincidence.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 21, 2024 9:40:38 pm EDT from 68.99.93.213

Indeed, Todd, it has been a busy 5 years for Gargoyles (even if the last few months have been pretty quiet. I suspect things will start to pick up again in a couple weeks when Quest 4 comes out. Hopefully we won't have as much of a wait for new stuff after that. And the Trades and Winter Special and who knows what else start coming out.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Oct 21, 2024 11:19:23 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

Second.

"Gargoyles" has its 30th anniversary on Thursday this week. The last big anniversary we had was the 25th in 2019; 30th anniversaries aren't generally as big as 25th ones, but since then, we've gotten the Dynamite comic with a lot of new developments and revelations, the NECA action figures, and the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 21, 2024 9:03:54 am EDT from 68.99.93.213

First!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Oct 21, 2024 8:17:49 am EDT from 204.184.178.1