
Farewell…my enemies.
Craig
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 8:30:25 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Farewell…my enemies.
Craig
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 8:30:25 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
I've been looking for you!
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 7:48:32 pm EST from 72.216.220.229
Trophies!
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 7:23:15 pm EST from 47.233.90.133
You'll have to do better than that.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 3:14:16 pm EST from 68.119.3.1
And the bot doesn't even realize that it made the same post just a few hours before. I've said this several times before, but I'll say it again: "The trouble with artificial intelligence is it's artificial".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 11:13:03 am EST from 68.99.93.213
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Illuminati Organization - [newmemberbenefits at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 10:51:11 am EST from 209.95.56.53
Perhaps, but its not like we were discussing our roofing needs earlier his week... and that happened.
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 9:40:57 am EST from 47.233.90.133
I wonder whether our mention of the Illuminati spam ads attracted the latest one.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Nov 10, 2024 7:21:41 am EST from 68.99.93.213
You can especially tell they aren't trying. At the very least they should request us bringing a live gargoyle to them.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Nov 9, 2024 10:53:38 pm EST from 68.119.3.1
Ah, speak of the devil and here they are. With a full letter block of completely legitimate advertisements.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sat, Nov 9, 2024 10:29:18 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
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Illuminati Organization - [illuminatisocietywealth at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Nov 9, 2024 8:10:32 pm EST from 209.95.56.53
There've been other animated series that alluded to Shakespeare. My favorite example, outside "Gargoyles", was "Peter Pan and the Pirates", in which Captain Hook (voiced by Tim Curry) was very keen on Shakespeare - in fact, it turns out that his fondness for Shakespeare is even stronger than his feud with Peter Pan. In one of the episodes, Hook comes upon Peter and the Lost Boys attempting to re-enact parts of "Julius Caesar"; Hook is about to take advantage of their distracted condition and make a surprise attack, when Peter tries to deliver Mark Antony's "Friends, Romans, countrymen" speech and botches it thoroughly. Hook promptly delivers the speech properly, while Peter, the Lost Boys, and Hook's pirate crew stare in utter astonishment.
Another episode had the pirates decide to convince Hook that Peter Pan is unkillable, in the hopes that if he believes that, he'll give up the feud, leave Neverland, and go back to regular piracy on the open seas, which is what they'd rather be doing. So they disguise themselves as witches and give Hook a set of seemingly impossible-to-fulfill conditions for Peter Pan to be slain, modelled on Macbeth's consulting the Witches, of course. Even better, a dismayed Hook responds with "I wasted time and now doth time waste me", taken from another Shakespeare play ("Richard II", in this case) - a very appropriate response. (And Peter, finding out about it and thinking that Neverland will be very dull if Hook leaves, sets about fulfilling all the conditions in the same manner in which the conditions of Macbeth's death were fulfilled in Shakespeare's play - for example, one of the conditions is for "the captain's sea to be gone", which Hook interprets as the ocean drying up; Peter, however, snatches the "C" from "Captain" on a sign over the door to Hook's cabin, convincing Hook that he *can* slay Peter Pan after all now.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Nov 9, 2024 7:42:44 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
Craig: I think my favorite appearance of the "Illuminati Recruiting" scam was on a web forum about scams. Part of that forum's shtick is the notion that all the senior members are a part of the Illuminati (and they complain about the paperwork, having to secure exactly the right grade of virgin blood, and so on). You can imagine how that went over. One of these days I'm inclined to go there and complain about the dental plan, just to close the circle.
When "Enter Macbeth" first came on, it was about the same time as we were studying "Macbeth" in English class, I think, so I may have sat up and paid a bit more attention to it as a result. I don't quite remember that being the case. I do recall being more interested in "Macbeth" than "Romeo and Juliet" or "Julius Caesar" (the other two plays we were reading about that time) and the "Gargoyles" link is as good an explanation as any. (I didn't really enjoy Shakespeare on its own merits until "Twelfth Night," and I had to wait a long time for that to show up in "Gargoyles," of course.)
The overt reference to Shakespeare in a kidvid show, though...I mean, by that point I was already figuring out that "Gargoyles" was way beyond kidvid, and it could very well be that the reference to "Macbeth" was just something I wrote off as one more of those grownup things it was referencing.
Regarding Birnam Wood, and an opposing opinion: https://www.loweringthebar.net/2007/07/tree-robs-bank.html
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Nov 9, 2024 10:26:01 am EST from 108.69.72.60
Unfortunately I have to share the news of the passing of Tony Todd, noted character actor, legend in the horror genre, and voice of Icon from Young Justice.
That last one was one of the few times he didn't play a villain.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sat, Nov 9, 2024 1:21:24 am EST from 135.180.3.149
On another website, there was some scammer who said something like "Hi, I'm Jennifer, my roommate Abby has moved out and I'm looking for another one!" But the funny thing was her name was always the same, but the roommate's name changed, so we joked she was a serial killer attracting roommates and killing them one by one.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Nov 9, 2024 12:07:17 am EST from 75.233.132.31
My favorite spambot here by far is still the Illuminati Recruitment Effort. At least that one got points for absurdity. Although it should have mentioned the dental plan to seal the deal.
Craig
posted @ Fri, Nov 8, 2024 10:39:19 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
Another mystery that will never be solved. (It could have been the programmers' idea - but as I said, I doubt that the ones behind the spambot are genuine roofers.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Nov 8, 2024 7:19:52 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
Of all the occupations the spam bots could've gone for, I wonder how they settled on roofers.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, Nov 8, 2024 7:10:53 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
Word of advice. If you sign your name "[insert name here] roofing company", no matter what you put in the main text, you've revealed yourself to be a spammer (and even raising questions over whether that roofing company actually exists or is just another scheme of parting people from their money).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Nov 8, 2024 7:54:56 am EST from 68.99.93.213
Wow, it's always a pleasure to revisit the archive and see how much passion the community still has for Gargoyles after all these years! The detailed discussions and deep dives into character motivations and plot nuances really bring back fond memories of the series. It's amazing how this show continues to inspire such thoughtful analysis. Thanks to everyone who keeps this archive alive!
Roofing Services in Colony, TX - [yourroofertx108 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Nov 8, 2024 1:34:51 am EST from 49.146.222.12
So, I'm not sure if Greg gave it more thought when answering what his Gargoyles Universe counterpart did in the 90s, yeah I guess the answer is Quack Pack (well he was involved to a degree) and W.I.T.C.H. S2.
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, Nov 8, 2024 1:21:46 am EST from 68.119.3.1
I haven't seen the "Hilda" series on Netflix, but I've read about it and read the graphic novels it was based on. One of the early stories (which was adapted from the graphic novels) had Hilda and her mother defending their home from invisible elves who were trying to drive them out, with Hilda determined to stay. In the end, however, they have to move, after the house gets destroyed, but Hilda, reconciling herself to the move, says "It's just wood and glass and a bunch of stuff anyway". That remark definitely echoed Hudson's words about the castle.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 9:21:36 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
"Enter Macbeth" where we get a new antagonist and some new digs. Macbeth certainly does make quite the impression, not just he battle prowess but his knowledge of the gargoyles and Demona. There is one thing I would've liked to see more of or be elaborated on and that the nature between Macbeth and Xanatos. I mean, how odd would it be to have some stranger disguised as a security guard pop in, announce that he knows about the gargoyles, knows about Xanatos' dilemma, and offers to get rid of them for a price. Then you find out it's not empty boasting from the stranger and he's already well-equipped to handle the clan. Better than Xanatos at that. I like to imagine that after seeing the footage Xanatos decided to look into the guy and then whether on his own or with some assistance from Owen/Puck, finds out about "Lennox Macduff" and some more of his aliases over the years.
What I find fun about Macbeth is that he has all the trappings of the Pack, that is a seemingly ordinary man who gets by on combat skills, traps and superior tech, but he does it better than them and all by his lonesome. In the end the conflict comes to a close because of his home catching fire and the knowledge that capturing the clan won't help him accomplish his goals. We'll see another element on why he makes such a good adversary in his next appearance but right now he's kind of a "Macbeth OP, pls nerf."
We see one of the first cases of Greg and his belief that there shouldn't be a status quo with the clan having to leave the castle not long after settling into it. Goliath's line, "WHAT?? HOW DARE YOU!" is so extra that I smile every time I hear it. It would be hard to imagine the character without that theatricality. But it does emphasize the importance of their situation; to their knowledge, they're the only ones of their kind left and if any one of them is lost protecting the castle it wouldn't feel like home anymore. So they have to do the sensible thing and to take this loss and leave. Because home is wherever the group is because that's what's truly important.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 9:06:21 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
Yes, Birnam Wood's one element of the play that hasn't gotten into the Macbeth thread yet (though Greg Weisman once mentioned they'd thought of an allusion to it in "City of Stone"; there wasn't room for it, though).
I've long found it amusing that John Rhys-Davies did the voice of Treebeard in the "Lord of the Rings" movies, since Tolkien once stated that one of the inspirations for the Ents was Birnam Wood - the way he thought it ought to have been done.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 8:45:06 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
"Someone once joked that probably the only way to permanently get rid of Macbeth's castle would be to have Demona's house in Gramercy Park attack it."
Nuh-uh, I heard that it will fall when the Thain Family Forest marches on it!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 8:35:08 pm EST from 75.233.132.31
Todd > Great thoughts, as always. I already was intrigued by Demona’s seeming immortality and her activities during those 1000 years, but Macbeth’s wonderful line (a favorite of Keith David’s as he oft mentions) sent a chill down my spine and kicked my curiosity to a whole other level. And this was definitely the episode that got ten-year-old Craig to start reading Shakespeare. I’m certain I wasn’t the only one. A significant episode indeed. (And quite frankly, I always think Greg is a little too tough on the animation in this one. While it’s undeniably uneven—and I’m sure the original cut was way worse and traumatized him—the good stuff looks really nice, like that opening sequence of everyone hanging out in the castle. There’s much more mediocre animation in several second-season episodes.)
Another voice actor note: while the animation on Hudson’s TV is taken from the Quack Pack pilot (still entitled Duck Daze at that time in production, I believe), the audio is entirely different, with music presumably by Carl Johnson and Donald audio that doesn’t sound like Tony Anselmo to my ear. I’ve always thought that Frank Welker probably voiced Donald there, but I may be wrong.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 8:20:41 pm EST from 12.74.53.5
CRAIG - [SPOILER] Thanks for sharing that research with us. I know there was a legend about Cleopatra having a pearl dissolved in wine (I believe; I don't know the exact details. The French comic series "Asterix" alluded to it. [/SPOILER]
I rewatched "Enter Macbeth" today. Another landmark moment for two reasons. First, the introduction of Macbeth, one of my favorite characters in "Gargoyles". And second and even bigger, the gargoyles move out of the castle into the clock tower - a major shake-up.
We open with a look at the gargoyles having a quiet time in the castle on one of their last evenings in it, showing their activities. Broadway is cooking. Hudson is watching "Quack Pack" on television (evidently the show premiered earlier in the Gargoyles Universe than it did in real life), stroking his beard thoughtfully; as I said once, the sight of a human-sized duck wearing clothes and able to speak - sort of - must have convinced him even more than the revelation about the Pack's true nature not to believe everything you see on television. Bronx is chewing on a bone. Lexington and Brooklyn are playing cards (Lex wins, and Brooklyn's a sore loser about it). And Goliath is reading in the library.
We find out later that Goliath discovered Shakespeare's plays, including "Macbeth", and mentioned them to the rest of the clan, though we don't know whether he was specifically reading "Macbeth" at that moment. I've suspected that one feature that might have encouraged him to read the play was its Scottish setting. I wonder if he even suspected at the time that the events the play was based on took place less than a century after his original time-period.
One touch that I noticed this time around, and really liked, was the shot of the Grimorum Arcanorum - just after we see Brooklyn and Lex's card game - which leads into the library scene. It made a good lead-in, from one scene involving a book to another.
Of course, it can't last, with Xanatos almost out of prison, and recognizing just as well as Elisa does that he and the clan can't share the castle. And Macbeth arrives to offer to solve the problem, leading into the adventure and Elisa finally convincing the gargoyles that it's time to leave. Not to mention Owen's first sign of exasperation with those fights damaging the castle (we saw some of the damage in "Awakening", but it's here that he starts showing a strong disapproval of it - and being fond of castles myself, I can side with him. We see Macbeth's castle getting burned down as well - though it's miraculously restored by "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Someone once joked that probably the only way to permanently get rid of Macbeth's castle would be to have Demona's house in Gramercy Park attack it).
Macbeth quickly establishes himself as a memorable figure - a formidable opponent, and one who's clearly familiar with the gargoyles - and has a link with Demona, leading to the revelation that he was the one who named her - raising big questions, of course. Plus such moments as him taunting Goliath from the mirror maze, and their duel, Macbeth armed with a sword and Goliath with a mace (a rare moment when we see Goliath armed with something other than a gargoyle's natural weaponry - and there's something ironic, I think, about Goliath wielding a mace).
Owen shows himself also a formidable opponent when he tries to stop Hudson and Broadway from taking the Grimorum, in a follow-up to his role in "Deadly Force".
Bronx and Goliath draw quite a crowd in the city street. I remember a remark (I believe, from the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on this episode) that if they'd had smartphones back then, the gargoyles would have been fully revealed to the public at that moment.
And we get Elisa on crutches (but she doesn't let that get in her way) as a follow-up from "Deadly Force", and the grand moment where, after Goliath delivers his warning message to Owen, we see him perched on one of the castle towers, silent in thought, before gliding off. (As I said, while I recognized that leaving the castle was the right thing to do, I could understand why Goliath was reluctant to leave, for reasons I gave in my review of "The Thrill of the Hunt".)
As I said, a major episode.
QUOTES.
XANATOS: Just like mom used to make -if mom was a prison cook.
XANATOS (to Owen): All in all, I'd say my stay has been... a learning experience.
OWEN: Mr. Macbeth, Mr. Xanatos hired you to fumigate his castle, not destroy it.
GOLIATH: We've lost our clan, our world, our time! This castle is all we have left! We will not abandon it!
MACBETH: It's not you I'm after. You're just a pawn. I want your queen.
GOLIATH: Queen? We have no queen.
MACBETH: What about Demona?
GOLIATH: You know her?
MACBETH: Know her? I named her!
HUDSON (to Goliath): It's just a place of stone and wood. Home is more than that, Goliath. Home is the six of us, wherever we can be together and safe.
GOLIATH: I've a message for your master. We're leaving. But we'll be back. We'll be back to claim what is ours.
OWEN: I'll deliver your message.
LEXINGTON: I bet I could get this thing working again.
BROOKLYN: Why would you want to?
HUDSON: It's not so bad. There's a place right over there for a television.
ELISA: Okay, it's a fixer-upper. But a few throw rugs, some flowers, it could be home.
GOLIATH: Yes. As long as we're together, it's home.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 7:14:38 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
Todd > Neat coincidence!
Spoilers for preview pages only:
[SPOILER] Speaking of the necklace: I did find a very long and detailed blog post about a black pearl necklace which belonged to Catherine the Great (called the "Yusupov black pearl necklace" due to its later ownership by several members of the Yusupov line). Although the blog is written in a style that didn't particularly appeal to me (reminiscent of a gossip column), it contains a lot of interesting historical information. The last mention the author could find of the necklace was in 1936, so its whereabouts today are unknown (opening the door for Greg to conflate it with the Aga Khan/Nina Dyer necklace that was auctioned in 1997).
I haven't been able to turn up any particular reference to a significant pearl necklace owned by Cleopatra, but she did have a documented love of pearls, anyway.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Thu, Nov 7, 2024 5:57:59 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
One little coincidence I thought I'd share with the room.
I have a book which has entries on historical events for every day of the year. Today's entry (November 6) was on [SPOILER] the passing of Catherine the Great of Russia (November 6, 1796). The very same day that "Gargoyles Quest" #4 was released, which (according to the preview pages; I still haven't gotten to read the whole thing yet) mentioned Catherine the Great as a past owner of Cleopatra's Necklace. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 10:45:18 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
I had said something about being last, last week. The universe seems out to prove me wrong this week, so it is that I seem to be one of the first to get Quest #4. Somehow, some way, my luddite ways actually paid off. Though I could hardly believe it. I figured there must have been a printing error or something that was going to be fixed by delaying the electronic release. But no, or at least not that I can tell.
[SPOILER]
The chapter title, "Unequivocal Success," is really not very cheering (especially not given current events, but I'd repeat Matt's remarks on that and I'm really trying to write this without reading others' notes first). It's clearly accurate, though, and so we get a kind of makeover montage marking the end of humanity (and sort of recapping the three Keys in the process), Demona ecstatic if in some pain, Antoinette looking mostly awed, Coldstone just sort of scowling.
Somehow I am sure that "I know no touch of it" is quoted from somewhere, but I couldn't put my finger on where. I'm sure someone here will know, eventually.
Some answer for why Antoinette Dracon is involved is given: she is "already loyal and enthralled" to Demona, and the pose they strike in that one panel backs that intensely. Whoof.
So, on to Thanksgiving in the castle, and it's intriguing that the clan plans to celebrate the holiday: it is a human holiday, not their own, but then I guess they have good reasons for wanting to jump in (as Brooklyn points out, they have a lot to be thankful for). Tragedy strikes the Thanksgiving Day Parade in one of the most silly ways possible, drawing righteous indignation from Gnash that they're not represented rather than Binzy the dinosaur. (Binzy being a pretty attenuated stand-in for Barney, natch, giving Gnash the chance at a cute in-joke.)
I get the sense that the gargoyles are intrigued by the holiday, as much as anything. It'd be easy enough for everyone to just sort of brush it off as not their thing, but you have Broadway and Angela preparing to cook dinner, Hudson inviting up his human friend (and hooray for seeing Robbins and Gilly again!), and Jade and Turquesa...not quite saying just, "oh, that's nice," though obviously they don't take it at face value either.
Elsewhere, the patrol goes on, with Goliath blaming Demona's sorcery for her elusiveness (if only he knew!) and Coldfire lightly cursing her new form. This leads to a very warm moment between Goliath and Coldfire, with him recognizing her as still being his sister.
We also get the first overt sign of friction between her and Coldstone, and that leads into a somewhat surprising bit of introspection from Goliath about his relation with Angel (not yet Demona) back in the day, and indirectly his own role in what followed. This feels like something that ought to get further developed in "Dark Ages" someday, maybe. The parallel that is set up--the idea that Coldstone is drifting along the same lanes as Angel/Demona had, all those years ago--is more than a little ominous. I can hope that Coldfire is able to intervene.
Out on the streets--and someone with better knowledge of New York City will have to say where Demona's reign of terror is starting, and the significance of that, if any--off she goes, in striking white-and-black (it's reverse tone, you see) to captivate the first of many victims. As a test case, it works, for what that is worth, but she has plans for more. And Coldstone finally smiles. Oof.
There's a part of me that wishes I'd paid more attention in music class to see if the notes shown amount to any kind of a tune. I don't quite think so.
Back to the clock tower where two lovers meet. We get "snogging" again: been a while since we saw that term, and a bit strange in Elisa's mouth. And...oh, Goliath. You hound, you. (Between how he looks here and how Demona's cradling Antoinette's face further back, this seems to be one of the spicier issues in the run so far. I hope that's not why the electronic version is held up.) The artwork with the stars in the background on these couple of panels is very pretty. But the two cops quickly turn to business, confirming there's still been no luck finding Demona, so Goliath...goes off to do more of what he's been doing without success.
In hindsight, snogging might have been the better tactic.
Now we get a big (brief) transformation montage as Coldfire reaches back to her old abilities to find Demona, or to find her power. She is evidently successful, finding a huge crowd under Demona's spell, ready to do Coldfire's and Coldstone's bidding (and I note the gender shift in the response: "magistra" vs. "magister", confirming they're each being addressed). Coldstone is again gleeful, Coldfire seems concerned.
There's an obvious setup for how this all might unwind in the end, if Demona's ended up enthralling more people than she can control, and leaving them in a position to be commanded by Coldstone/Coldfire. (Greed'll get you in the end, maybe.) I do imagine this is the point at which Coldstone's intentions are going to have to come out; whether we're setting up for the split between the two of them, or whether indeed this is all one big rug pull for next issue, remains to be seen.
Anyway, Demona, as she has been wont to do for the past few issues, easily takes down her opposition as she works her way into the castle. Elsewhere, Hudson is showing Robbins around, and once again, it seems like he may not be subject to Demona's charms (though we don't set to see him very long). But still we get the setup for the big cliffhanger, and the cue for the next issue, "endless love," and the teaser of a "final showdown with the Manhattan Clan!" (Next issue "in stores November!" Or December, or June, or....)
Overall, lots of character development in this issue, and given that the action is mostly just Demona triumphing in her quest I suppose that figures. I like that, though. Lots of warm relationships between characters (sometimes very warm) and the sense of this being a strongly cohesive group.
[/SPOILER]
I hope that everyone who hasn't got it yet gets it soon. It is, as usual, a fun tale and well-drawn, even if the premise of a villain gaining untold powers seems a little...relevant.
One final unrelated note, and it's not the one I would want to make, but if right now you need to vent or anything like that, my inbox (below) is open.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 10:15:28 pm EST from 108.69.72.60
I can understand why "Deadly Force" was oft removed from reruns and channel lineups, it's a serious episode with a heavy topic. Heavier than the average executive would probably be willing to tackle. When I reviewed this episode I talked about the unintended allure of guns and how cool they can be. But however cool they may be, they are weapons and must be treated with respect. Because they are not toys and they are not tools, they are weapons created with one purpose, to kill. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the history of firearms will tell you that, or should tell you that.
It's easy to forget since Bill Fagerbakke is a voice A-lister that this was his first foray into voice work and here he absolutely wins the acting MVP. For years he's been typecast as "the big, tough, stupid one" (as TeamFourStar would put it) but there's so much depth in his performance. That line, "What’s this? ! A new kind of gun?! A NEW WAY TO KILL PEOPLE?!" is packed with so much anger, pain and regret that I'm honestly surprised he doesn't get more dramatic work.
I do like that Owen is practicing from Xanatos' method of enacting multiple schemes to ensure the most favorable outcome. It doesn't work in the end but it does show that he's not a mindless yes-man, he takes the initiative on his boss' behalf and has a shrewd mind.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 9:10:02 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
Todd > I have also had cats who responded to Cagney. I’ve always wondered who provided Cagney’s sounds in certain episodes such as “Deadly Force,” where Frank Welker is not listed in the voice credits. This would probably be a question for Paca Thomas (if he remembers), but I wonder if perhaps archive recordings of real cats were used.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 8:44:51 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
Should have been "continuing the series without Elisa". Once again, I really need to proofread these posts before submitting them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 8:05:49 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
I haven't been able to read "Gargoyle Quest" #4 yet (apart from the preview pages - [SPOILER] I couldn't resist, after that, adding Catherine the Great's reign to the timeline at GargWiki [/SPOILER]), but I did get to rewatch "Deadly Force" today.
This is one of the major episodes of "Gargoyles", of course. We have the drama of Broadway accidentally shooting Elisa and his devastation over it. (As has been pointed out, it echoes Lexington and Brooklyn's misadventures in the two preceding episodes. One major difference, as I mentioned earlier, is that Broadway doesn't develop a full-blown feud like Lexington towards the Pack or Brooklyn towards Demona - though he and Tony Dracon will be regularly clashing thereafter - but instead, turns against guns.) We have the introduction of Tony Dracon, and learn a lot more about Elisa, getting to meet her family (apart from Beth, but she gets mentioned, and we see her in the photograph), her boss Captain Chavez, even her cat Cagney - not to mention visiting her apartment for the first time. We get a few hints of Goliath's feelings for Elisa. We even get our first glimpse of the clock tower, though the gargoyles won't be moving in for another episode. (Not to mention a silent cameo from Matt Bluestone; how many of us, the first time we saw this episode, even noticed him?)
And although Broadway, Elisa and Dracon get most of our attention, this is also a significant episode for Owen; we really get to see him at work. He establishes himself as a capable figure from the start - taking down one of Dracon's men and grabbing his gas mask during the attack. And he embarks on plans to get the guns back - not just the immediately obvious one of buying them back from Tony, but the more subtle one of getting Goliath to deal with Dracon. (I'll admit I didn't fully realize that part until I heard the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on this episode.) Of course, the latter plan backfires when Goliath destroys the guns, but it was still an impressive performance.
Something I noticed this time around; there's a big sign marked "Broadway" outside the movie theater where Broadway saw "Showdown".
I remember that my first two cats, Merlin and Obie, at different times, sat up and paid attention to Cagney when he meowed to Elisa in this episode. My current cat, Zoey, has never similarly responded to that moment, including when I watched it today. (I once told Greg Weisman about Merlin noticing Cagney meowing; he replied that none of his cats have ever noticed Cagney - nor have any of his dogs ever responded to Bronx.)
And speaking of Cagney, I can't help wondering what the cat must have made of Broadway entering the apartment and bearing his human off. (I assume that Broadway must have visited the apartment at least once before, given how easily he found his way there.)
Another memorable moment: Owen delivers the news about Elisa being shot, and they don't know if she'll survive, to Goliath just before the sun goes up - meaning that Goliath is frozen in stone before he can do anything except look horrified. Talk about timing!
A few other elements that stand out to me: during the operation, Broadway is sitting on the roof of an ornate building sobbing (someone said once that it was Grand Central Station; I'll have to look that up). Broadway's response when he realizes that Goliath believes that Dracon was the one who shot Elisa, and has to speak up to stop Goliath from killing Tony. Goliath visiting Elisa at the hospital twice (the second time with Broadway), even touching her hair at one point - and the two gargoyles perched outside the hospital window at the end.
(Incidentally, I don't know if anyone here's familiar with the animated series "The Legend of Prince Valiant", which came out roughly around the same time as "Gargoyles", but it had an episode called "The Crossbow" which reminded me a lot of this episode. Prince Valiant is doing target practice with a crossbow, I recall, when he tosses it aside thanks to a hunt in the area. A young squire picks up the crossbow and accidentally sets it off, badly wounding one of Val's friends, who's then tended by Merlin; another of Val's friends gives him a tongue-lashing for leaving the crossbow around so carelessly, before they find out that it was the squire who was responsible. One feature that both episodes had in common was the message being not only "Don't play with guns as if they're toys", but also "Don't leave them carelessly lying around".)
I remember Greg Weisman saying in his ramble on the episode that the one "seriously unrealistic" part was Elisa not dying as a result of getting shot, but he knew that he couldn't kill her off. I agree with that; while I doubt that Disney would have okayed such an element anyway, it would have meant a very big challenge for continuing the series with Elisa, at this point the gargoyles' only human friend, gone. They'd have a very difficult time surviving in modern-day Manhattan without a human friend - and finding another one would be a big challenge (all the more so with all their other meetings with humans - Xanatos, the Pack, and the bikers in "Temptation" - going bad in various different ways). (I once came across a "Gargoyles" fanfic where Demona discovered a way to time travel that could actually change the past - though she could go back only a few years, so no preventing the Wyvern Massacre, for example - and used it to sneak into the hospital room and finish off Elisa. When she returned to the present, she found conditions there a lot more dangerous for gargoyles. A grief-stricken Goliath had gone increasingly out of control, demolishing Coldstone in Times Square, for example, in a way that revealed the gargoyles' existence to an alarmed public - and Xanatos took full advantage of the situation to pursue the gargoyles, thus simultaneously capturing them to control them and ensuring that the city would owe him a big debt for delivering them from those winged monsters. Demona herself is no longer safe in this alternate timeline. It ended on a cliffhanger; I never found out if the author finished it or not, and if so, how they resolved the situation.)
Quotes for this one was a bit of a challenge; a lot of the really effective moments are more visual (like Broadway discovering Elisa just after shooting her). But I did find a few.
QUOTES.
HUDSON: Movies, television, video games. These days it's hard to tell what's real from what's not.
ELISA (to Cagney): Be glad you've got a home, cat. The streets just got a whole lot meaner.
PETER MAZA: Well, what can we do? Diane?
DIANE MAZA: We can pray, Peter. We can pray.
BROADWAY: What's this? A new kind of gun? A new way to kill people?
GOLIATH: You are the one who shot Elisa Maza.
DRACON: What?
BROADWAY: Goliath, no! You can't kill him!
GOLIATH: You think not? Elisa will have her revenge through me.
BROADWAY: But he didn't shoot Elisa. I did.
GOLIATH: What?
BROADWAY: It was an accident. I was looking at her gun and... it went off.
OWEN (after Goliath's just destroyed nearly all the guns): Mr. Xanatos isn't going to like this.
GOLIATH: I'll be happy to discuss the matter with him.
ELISA (to Goliath and Broadway): Hi, guys.
BROADWAY: Elisa, it was all my fault. I was playing with your gun and... it went off. I'll never touch a gun again.
ELISA: I should have been a lot more careful about where I left it. We both made mistakes.
BROADWAY: Yeah, but you nearly paid for those mistakes with your life.
ELISA: Then let's not repeat them.
GOLIATH: Come. She needs her rest.
ELISA: Goliath....
GOLIATH: Shh.... Sleep now. You're safe.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 7:30:28 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
To switch from some less wearisome news...
Some time ago someone here posted about the new animated series for Adult Swim, Invincible Fight Girl. It just premiered, though our minds were on other subjects.
Anyway, the first episode is on youtube and can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnp9lbTRi2s
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 7:15:41 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
As far as Quest goes, it's aggravating because I've been buying three physical copies of each issue (each main variable cover) along with the digital copy, so I'm supporting each issue four times. However, my physical copies are shipped to me and probably won't be here for a week or so. I've been relying on the digital copy to read on the day of release. I can't think of any conceivable reason why the digital copy shouldn't be available for release if the physical is already out (unless they're trying to drive up physical sales, but it doesn't seem as if that has ever been their strategy up to now).
Once again, it's not the delays that bother me, it's the inefficiency and disorganized nature of the releases and the poor communication.
But I'm grumpy today.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 3:00:06 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
Back again. Called up my local comic shop and they had one copy of Quest 4 still available and they held it for me. I'm sure the digital version will come sooner or later and I have another physical copy in the mail, but I couldn't wait. Plus, I could really use a distraction today.
[SPOILER] That said, I read this latest installment through the lens of today's real world events. Needless to say, a story about a villain having "Unequivocal Success" in taking over the minds of the people during the month of November wasn't exactly a distraction. I think I will always read this chapter and be reminded of what went down today. I suppose the story is feeling more perilous due to my mindset today, but it is also making me more anxious than I would be otherwise. Pity, but it is what it is.
Anyway, onward with my thoughts on this penultimate chapter!
- Demona and Company are thrilled with their success. At first Coldstone read to me as skeptical or ever suspicious of Demona's plan, but as the story progresses we seems more and more pleased. It's creepy. Antoinette meanwhile is all in. I can't understand her desire to see Demona "harvest the entire human race". Maybe she just wants control. Maybe she is just that swayed by Demona's charisma. Or maybe she just wants to watch the world burn. Frankly (and here comes that lens again), Antoinette is feeling like a good stand in for our new President-Elects staunchest supporters. I both pity her and despise her. She's an interesting character though. I look forward to learning more of her motivations.
- The specific powers of the three New Keys are explained. Nothing too shocking there. I'm curious on why the Lance burns Demona. I suspect there is something about it that is resisting her as a wielder. And with all three Keys, Demona is, potentially, the most dangerous that she has ever been. And can now go black and white when activating her new power. Terrifying truly.
- Meanwhile, times seem good with the Clan back at the Eyrie. Broadway and Angela are preparing a Thanksgiving meal for the clan, Gnash and Lex are watching TV with Alex (fun easter egg here with the "better than Barn... er, Binzy!" line!, Hudson welcomes Robbins and Gilly to the clan's festivities, Brook and Katana (and the Clan's beasts) observe the next generation (Egwardo), and Elisa discusses the Thanksgiving Holiday with Jade and Turquesa. A quick note there. I'm amazed that the Mayan Gargoyles have hung out all these months. Its clear they want to get home. And what more could they really do in the hunt for Demona? Well, good for them. They and Elisa both have mixed feelings on Thanksgiving and its history and meaning. This is really interesting stuff. So complicated.
- I'm glad to see a scene of Goliath and Coldfire together on patrol. A while back I expressed a desire to see more interactions between clan members that we have never or rarely seen. A one-on-one conversation between Goliath and Coldfire has only happened a couple times before, so it was nice to have this. I really get the sense that they treat each other as adult siblings might. They are more than friends, less than lovers. They are family. And their conversation is great. They discuss their romantic relationships, the clan's complacency with the Demona situation, and Coldfire's priestly abilities. All fun stuff.
- Meanwhile, Demona and Co. are on the move. We finally get confirmation that the Jogger and Billy and Susan's dad are brothers right before Demona enthralls them both. Its creepy. And Coldstone's creepy grin here makes me uneasy. And the enthrallment is spreading. Yikes.
- Goliath and Elisa have a sweet moment at the Clocktower. I find it interesting that Matt and the GTF were also searching for Demona. How was that initially brought up?! Must've been quite recap for most of the GTF to take in. Then again, perhaps Goliath and Elisa were light on the details.
- Coldstone heads off to meet his mate while Demona notes Goliath's departure before entering the police station. Something she has been looking forward to. Uh, what? I'm not sure if she's after Elisa here or the GTF or what, but this ain't good. If she is after Elisa right now, I suppose she just has Elisa arrive at the Castle at the expected time since Demona doesn't arrive with her. If its not Elisa she's specifically after, I can see her getting excited about taking over the GTF.
- Coldfire manages to reconnect with her training and immediately senses that something is amiss. She doesn't even stop to talk to her mate and flies off to investigate. I like a few things about the Times Square scene. I think it is a fun bookend to Coldstone's first appearance in Times Square and how things have changed. I like that in a creepy way the humans have proven Goliath to be correct: no matter the outer shell, Coldfire is indeed a gargoyle. And I like the difference in reaction between Coldfire and her mate. Coldstone is as happy as we've ever seen him and is definitely giving villain vibes like never before. I really would'nt be too upset if karma hits him hard and soon. I just worry about casualties.
- And finally, Demona brings her evil to the Eyrie. Xanatos is enthralled without incident. Fox and Owen too surprisingly. No trouble at all, really. The only Family Xanatos member we don't see here is young Alex. I'm wondering if he'll play a key role in defeating Demona. Have his powers progressed enough to help? Is his thin bloodline enough to make him immune even when his mother fell without incident? Will Alex's connection to the Flute in particular be important? We shall see. Another potentially immune human in Robbins. He has been immune to Demona's magic before. Will his blindness save him again? It seems to be since he is hearing the music without bowing down to Hudson (though I'd have wondered how the elder gargoyle would've reacted to that!). And finally, we all knew it was coming: Elisa. Bowing to Demona and under her complete control. The possibilities are endless... YIKES. It was made clear that while humans will submit to any gargoyle, they'll submit to Demona most of all, so I'm not sure how our heroes are going to get through this. The Clan has numbers and perhaps the help of Alex and Robbins. I'm not sure how that will be enough. This is probably the biggest cliffhanger Gargoyles has ever had. I'm anxious to see how it all turns out in (hopefully!) four weeks.
- A couple other notes of things I personally liked: Always good seeing more of the Mayan Clan since they are my favorite clan. Good to hear a little more of their history. And always awesome to have more Staghart/Lex moments. Very sweet. Finally, I thought the art in this one was fantastic. Qualano really nailed it and this was his best take on Gargoyles so far. Really great job.
So those are my thoughts. It's odd to say that I enjoyed it considering it might be of the darkest and creepiest stories we've ever seen, but it certainly has me wanting more. [/SPOILER] Gargoyles is going to be one of my lifesavers over these next few years, so I hope we have no more major delays. I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. Take care out there.
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 2:43:46 pm EST from 47.233.90.133
Indeed to all of that.
My husband looked at me this morning and asked, "well, did you at least get a new Gargoyles story?" I told him no and he said, "This is a terrible day..."
That said, I plan to swing by the comic book store in a couple hours and get some much needed distraction. I hope the next time I post here it is with my review.
Stay strong, peeps.
Matt
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 9:02:15 am EST from 47.233.90.133
You know what? To heck with compartmentalization. Ditto what Masterdramon said.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 5:33:38 am EST from 135.180.3.149
...F***
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"You said everything has a name. I'll name this ability of mine too. 'Stone Free.' Because I'll become free of this ocean of stone." - Jolyne Cujoh
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 4:52:38 am EST from 76.173.137.179
Bishansky > Well, that’s definitely the second biggest disappointment of my night.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 12:36:50 am EST from 69.118.30.106
Gargoyles Quest #4 did not drop digitally yet. Maybe it will, but Amazon has it listed for next week.
The physical release is scheduled for today, Wednesday the 6th. But I plan to call my comic shop ahead just in case.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Nov 6, 2024 12:33:34 am EST from 67.189.200.184
And I'll be getting to the third one soon. All I'll say for now is that it differs from the first two in that Broadway's "Berserk Button" is directed against an object rather than against other characters.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 9:42:04 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
"Temptation" the second of the "Trio Finds Their Berserk Button" trilogy.
One thing that stands out to me is that there are plenty of Demona's arguments that aren't inaccurate but filtered through her anti-human lens. Something she works to hide for the most part during her persuasions of Brooklyn. I mentioned before that her arguments parallel what Elisa said during "Awakening," as a cop and citizen she's not blind to the problems of the city or the world. But it's also part of her desire to see justice done that helps her want to work to fix things rather than give up on or destroy humanity like Demona.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 9:34:12 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
Well given that Demona doesn't really have much ethics or any, I sometimes think her less than pleased reaction to citizens of the city turned into gargoyles might cement that she has no concern about preserving the gargoyle race.
But then it could be also that they would just be humans with wings and such. Though she really isn't that different even before her soon to be new transformation.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 9:17:26 pm EST from 68.119.3.1
A couple of other thoughts on "Temptation" I forgot to mention.
First, Brooklyn calls the bikers (when he first spots them) "Kindred spirits", an echo of Goliath and Lexington's conversation in "The Thrill of the Hunt".
Second, on the issue of "The gargoyles might already be doomed to extinction thanks to so few of them being left, meaning that wiping out humanity won't avert it". I thought it understandable that it's not brought up in the Manhattan clan's exchanges with Demona; the core element is that Demona's actions are wrong, as Goliath points out (including the fact that her scheming back in 994 helped bring about the Wyvern Massacre), are based more on hatred than on concern for the well-being of her people. Of course, Demona's real reason is revenge (and trying to get out of confronting her partial responsibility for the deaths of her fellow-gargoyles at the Vikings' hands); she'd be continuing to wage war on humanity even if she was the only gargoyle left. I suspect that, if someone did point out to her that humanity's destruction would come too late to save the gargoyles from extinction, she'd justify it with "Then I can at least make certain the humans won't get to enjoy the frits of their mass slaughter of our kind". (I think that that response would make a good scene, incidentally - but I also think that the time for it has passed, now that both the audience and the Manhattan clan know that they're not the only gargoyles left, that their species does have hope for recovery.)
It also struck me that Goliath's line about Demona having thoroughly convinced herself about that half-truth on humanity may be almost the "Gargoyles" counterpart of the Titan's remark in "The Owl House" that while Emperor Belos/Philip Wittebane claimed that he was trying to wipe out the population of the Boiling Isles to protect humanity, he was really doing it out of a need to be the hero in his own story.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 8:58:39 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
Yeah, it's another thing interesting about further stories of [SPOILER] TimeDancer.
Just seeing further encounters of Brooklyn and Demona prior to her brief reunion with the Wyvern/Manhattan clan [/SPOILER].
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 8:17:15 pm EST from 68.119.3.1
Should be "punished", not "published". I really need to proofread these posts before I submit them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 7:49:47 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
I rewatched "Temptation" today, which feels like particularly appropriate timing, given that we're getting another issue of "Gargoyles Quest" tomorrow, where Demona plays a leading role, and which will [SPOILER] feature her engaging in mind-control again, though evidently in a very different style from what she did to Goliath in this episode [/SPOILER].
After the mostly light-hearted action of "The Thrill of the Hunt", this feels closer to the atmosphere of "Awakening", with Demona now trying to bring Brooklyn over to her side. Taking advantage already of how upset he was over the reception he got from the bikers, she shows him various examples of the darker aspects of humanity, from simple street crime (and a cynical remark on the human justice system) to domestic violence to the aftermath of a murder scene - and we see just how increasingly dejected Brooklyn is about it all, in an effective way.
I might have mentioned this before, but I think there's a neat bit of irony over one of the things Demona shows Brooklyn being domestic violence. In her last appearance ("Awakening Part Five"), she'd been opening fire on Goliath, her mate or ex-mate, with a high-tech hand-held cannon. That's a lot more lethal than a vase with flowers in it (the ammunition used by the angry wife).
When Brooklyn brings up that Elisa's a friend to the clan, Demona replies that even if Elisa is an exception (and you just feel that she doesn't like to admit it), she still wouldn't be able to protect the gargoyles from the rest of humanity. I suspect that there's a nod here to the Captain of the Guard, who'd failed to protect the gargoyles from Hakon and his Vikings - who, after a bit of an effort, gave in and just watched Hakon smash the gargoyles to rubble. Obviously Elisa would display a lot more courage than the Captain did, though I imagine that Demona would almost wish that she wouldn't - just to avoid confronting her with the possibility that she's been wrong about humans. (We'll see this in greater detail in "High Noon".)
Demona also brings up that the fact that humans were used to the gargoyles back in Castle Wyvern didn't stop them from turning on them, which ties in with the discussion we were earlier having here about what went wrong between "Dark Ages: Alliance" and "Awakening".
We see Goliath reading for the first time in the series (in the television room, when Lexington and Broadway report that Brooklyn's out on a "joy-ride"); in fact, he's got a couple of piles of books standing next to him. This is one of my favorite elements of Goliath's characterization, his being an avid reader. It stands out all the more given that he's a warrior from early medieval Europe, a setting where literacy and warriors generally didn't mingle, where almost everyone who could read and write were priests and monks, where most warriors probably regarded reading the same way Hakon did as he was burning pages from the Grimorum or the way Broadway did at the start of "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". (Though there were exceptions; just a hundred years earlier, in England to the south, Alfred the Great, while a strong enough warrior-king to handle the Vikings, was also a keen reader who did a lot to encourage literacy in his kingdom.) We see Goliath avidly reading here - in part, I suspect, to catch up on what's been taking place during the past thousand years while he was in stone sleep - and while we don't find out precisely what he's reading here, we'll learn in later episodes that he's reading classic authors like Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky. More on this when we get to "Enter Macbeth" and "The Edge".
The visit to the Cloisters was a delight; I can imagine that it would indeed feel almost homelike to the gargoyles. (I've mentioned this before, but I was already familiar with the Cloisters when this episode first aired. I've never been there, but I first learned about it in a book on how to make medieval costumes called "Kings, Queens, Knights, and Jesters: Making Medieval Costumes" which showed a lot of photographs taken from medieval festivals being held in the Cloisters. I also remember an episode of "The Real Ghostbusters" set in the Cloisters, which featured as the villain a knight named Sir Breuse sans Pitie who'd been imprisoned in a tapestry by Merlin but had broken free; Sir Breuse was an actual robber-knight in Sir Thomas Malory's "Le Morte d'Arthur", by the way.) Obviously the gargoyles couldn't move there once they left the castle (though I've joked in the past that if they *had* relocated there, Vinnie would have probably gotten a night watchman job there around the same time), but it was certainly worth a visit for Goliath and Brooklyn - until Demona showed up.
We get further evidence that Demona wasn't in stone sleep all this time but roaming the world - and her experiences clearly helped turn her into the revenge-ridden figure we know her as now. Though the details are still to come....
One thing that strikes me in Demona's appearances in "Awakening Part Five" and "Temptation" is that, while she's mostly focused on destroying humanity to get back at them, she also speaks about building "a new world" for gargoyle-kind once the humans are gone. Of course, at this point, as far as the audience knows, there are only seven gargoyles left (Goliath, Hudson, the trio, Bronx, and Demona), only one of them is a female, and that one now estranged from the males. A species brought down to single-digit numbers - and with just one female at that - is doomed to extinction in the near future, even if its external threats were removed; the "new world" that Demona is speaking about would not last long. Later, we will find out that the situation isn't quite so desperate, that there are other gargoyle clans out there, that the species still has a future, but at this point, we don't know it; Demona certainly makes no mention of the other clans. (Leaving us to wonder whether she knew about them or not, something that has so far been neither confirmed or denied. Of course, it makes sense for Demona to not mention the survivors elsewhere at this point; it would give away too much at this stage in the series.)
I suspect that this is a case of Demona having to appeal to the other gargoyles, who aren't sunk as deep into vengefulness as she is, who need an appeal to something higher, like the survival of their kind. She certainly wouldn't be the first person to clothe the baser goals of her war in more praiseworthy terms. I find myself particularly thinking of Milton's Satan in "Paradise Lost", who in his speeches makes it look as if he's engaged in a heroic war against a tyrant, even though (as he admits when he's by himself, away from his followers, at the start of Book Four) it really began as simply coveting God's throne - and winds up degenerating into sneaking into a garden, disguising himself as a talking snake, and persuading two people into breaking the rules by eating a piece of literal forbidden fruit, all so that they'll get published alongside he himself and his followers. (Demona hasn't stooped quite this low yet, of course; she still seems to be genuinely aiming at the overthrow of humanity, though more out of revenge and avoiding her own responsibility for her troubles than out of concern for the safety of her species.) Of course, Demona and Milton's Satan have one other thing in common: a crowd of apologists. (It also strikes me as appropriate that I'd bring up Milton's Satan in a review of an episode titled "Temptation".)
Demona places Goliath under a mind-control spell, suggesting that, after "Awakening Part Five", she has seriously given up hope of genuinely persuading him to join her cause; the only way she can gain his support, she's concluded, is by mentally enslaving him. (She will, eventually, briefly recover that hope in "Hunter's Moon Part Two" - only to see it dashed to pieces, alongside the Praying Gargoyle, in Part Three.)
Brooklyn displays his ingenuity in pretending to be knocked out until Demona comes close enough for him to snatch the Grimorum out of her hands and tear out the spell (the latter being an additional example of his quick thinking). And Elisa displays her own resourcefulness in how she freed Goliath from the spell.
The ending is very effective, with the gargoyles taking their places on the battlements and turning to stone, and Elisa, holding the Grimorum, shielding her eyes from the sunrise. (I also liked the scene around the midpoint of the clan waking up, particularly when we see Bronx, perched on the battlements, watching Hudson as he glides down to the courtyard below.)
All in all, this is a fine episode, which feels like a true continuation of "Awakening", and some effective drama for both Brooklyn and Demona.
QUOTES.
BROOKLYN: Come on, you've ridden one of these before.
LEXINGTON: You rode a horse once. Could you build one out of spare parts?
BROADWAY (after he and Lexington are cheering Brooklyn on): Hey, don't we get our turns?
BROOKLYN: Broadway? Lexington?
DEMONA (emerging from the shadows): None of the above.
DEMONA: That was then.
BROOKLYN: And this is good-bye.
BROOKLYN: But Goliath says, when they get used to us....
DEMONA: They were used to us a thousand years ago. Did that stop them from betraying and destroying our kind?
BROOKLYN: I - I don't know.
DEMONA: You don't know the depths to which humanity can sink, my young friend. But I do. Over the centuries I've seen horrors that would blast your soul. Come, let me show you what mankind is really like.
DEMONA: They can't share their own homes without fighting. And you think they will share this world with us?
DEMONA: They hold each other's lives completely without worth. Do you really think they would accept us with open arms?
BROOKLYN (with a sigh): No.
DEMONA: And this is not the worst of it. We must make Goliath see the truth. Humanity will never trust or accept us.
BROOKLYN: But not all humans are like that. Elisa's our friend.
DEMONA: Perhaps the policewoman is the exception that proves the rule. But can she keep you safe from humanity? Only we can protect each other, Brooklyn. We must be united and strong, and willing to deal with the humans as they would with us. Goliath thinks we can hide in their midst like mice, and hope for their understanding. This is not possible.
DEMONA: If you think I'm wrong, then show yourself to them.
{Brooklyn remains where he is.}
DEMONA: Very wise, my young friend. They would shoot you down like a dog.
ELISA (after the sun rises and freezes Goliath and Brooklyn in stone): That's one way of avoiding an argument.
GOLIATH: Demona. So you did survive.
DEMONA: I always survive.
BROOKLYN: No, this wasn't the plan. I wanted to free his mind, not enslave it.
DEMONA (to a mind-controlled Goliath): I hold the book. You must obey me.
BROOKLYN: You hold the book, Demona. But I hold the spell.
BROOKLYN (to Elisa): Any species that has you for a member can't be all bad.
ELISA: Thanks - I think.
BROOKLYN: What Demona said sounded true at the time.
GOLIATH: Of course it did. It's a half-truth she has thoroughly embraced. But it's not the whole truth.
LEXINGTON: Hey, what happened to the motorcycle?
BROOKLYN: Uh, it blew up.
LEXINGTON: Oh. WHAT? {Is caught in stone sleep, with the rest of the clan, just after that cry.}
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 7:47:34 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
So prior to last week's Gargoyles rebinge was a rewatch of The Owl House.
Think the Boiling Isles has a yuppie couple akin to Brendan and Margot? Getting mugged for their snails and such.
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 5:44:27 pm EST from 68.119.3.1
Sorry for the double post.
[SPOILER]
Just wanted to make note of a bizarre coincidence I encountered. When I was doing my research into the auction a couple of weeks back, I noticed on Google that a DIFFERENT jewelry piece also given to Ms. Dyer by the Prince Aga Khan is soon to be up for auction. This piece--an emerald brooch--originally sold in 1969 alongside the black pearl necklace, following Ms. Dyer's tragic death. When did Christie's announce that the broach will be back under the hammer? On October 23, 2024...the day before the Voices from the Eyrie podcast where Greg discussed the necklace!
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 4:52:06 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
Preview pages:
[SPOILER] It's confirmed that the auction/necklace I mentioned a couple of weeks back was indeed the one that Greg had in mind. Demona mentions that the necklace at one point belonged to "the Princess Aga Khan." Nina Dyer, the owner of the necklace I mentioned, was married for a time to Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan, who gave her the necklace. We also learn that the necklace originally came from Hathor, meaning that this time out, all three objects of power seem to have belonged to a member of the Oberati.
Also interesting that Demona says Antoinette is already enthralled to her. Hmm...what is going on here, exactly?
Shame on Demona. Alive for a thousand years, and couldn't even be bothered to learn to play the flute. ;) [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 4:26:06 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
Jurgan> That's a good way of putting it, compartmentalized. The sort of thing that is important but doesn't need to be taken out at this time.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 3:53:37 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
If anyone is looking to distract themselves from current events, the first few pages of Quest 4 are previewed here: https://graphicpolicy.com/2024/11/05/preview-gargoyles-quest-4/
[SPOILER] No big surprises to those of us who might remember an old radio play. Nice to know the exact purpose and ability of each of the three New Keys of Power. And Demona's interactions with Coldstone and Antoinette continue to be fascinating... [/SPOILER]
Matt
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 3:08:31 pm EST from 204.184.178.1
Well played, Todd.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 1:38:19 pm EST from 166.198.21.21
Yes, I'm very political but I try to keep it compartmentalized as much as possible so as not to annoy my friends. But I would be surprised and/or disappointed if Gargoyles fans were willing to vote for someone who makes John Castaway look tolerant by comparison.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 10:48:05 am EST from 75.233.83.254
Correcting that last sentence: "I can't let it come and go without posting that poem".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 7:55:46 am EST from 68.99.93.213
Please to remember
The Fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot
I see no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.
Yes, it's Election Day, but it's also Guy Fawkes Day, and I can't resist letting it come and go without that poem.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 7:45:48 am EST from 68.99.93.213
I remember that episode of Rescue Rangers, a friend of mine had that one on VHS. I didn't know the Darkwing Duck episode though; that one is pretty funny considering I heard that Tad Stones would often scribble notes on the script that read as, "Doesn't matter what I put in, Jim will come up with something funnier." Or something like that.
As for the election...well, I've done my best to try and remain not neutral and not apolitical but keeping certain things to myself. Not that I don't care but I also don't think this is the place for my soapboxing. If you thought I could get wordy covering fiction you haven't seen me on politics.
I will say this though, covering Lex Luthor's term in the UN is less headache-inducing than a certain a certain administration that shall not be named.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Nov 5, 2024 1:32:30 am EST from 135.180.3.149
Thankfully, Hawaii switched to 100% mail-in voting even before the pandemic, so I cast my ballot a couple weeks ago.
Crossing my fingers as hard as possible that the mistakes of 2016 aren't repeated tomorrow. Stay safe, y'all.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"You said everything has a name. I'll name this ability of mine too. 'Stone Free.' Because I'll become free of this ocean of stone." - Jolyne Cujoh
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 10:38:10 pm EST from 76.173.137.179
Understatement in fact. When Darkwing tells Thaddeus he could come up with original ideas, Tad said this in response "You mean actually think up ideas? Are you a lunatic?"
Not sure if it is certain, but Twitching Channels might have started as a direct DW/Rescue Rangers crossover.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 9:51:56 pm EST from 68.119.3.1
CRAIG - Yes, I remember that "Darkwing Duck" episode - especially the end where, as Thaddeus is wondering what he's going to do after Darkwing has returned home, he picks up the voices of the Rescue Rangers on his equipment....
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 8:21:55 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
Todd > I think that was definitely an intentional meta joke. It's worth noting that several of the Disney Afternoon shows did these "you can't believe everything you see on TV" episodes, sort of "taking the piss" out of their own medium. DuckTales had an episode called "Where No Duck Has Gone Before" where the nephews end up on the set of a Star Trek-type show, but when the set actually ends up in space, it turns out the actor playing the Captain Kirk-type role is really a coward. Rescue Rangers did something similar with an episode called "Flash the Wonder Dog." And Darkwing Duck had a pretty bizarre episode called "Twitching Channels" where Darkwing ends up in "our" world and discovers that an unscrupulous TV producer (named "Thaddeus Rockwell," a reference to Darkwing creator Tad Stones) has been stealing Darkwing's adventures and turning them into a hit TV show for profit.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 8:10:01 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
A last thought I had about "The Thrill of the Hunt" from last week, that I forgot to post. One of the quotes I listed in my review was Lexington saying about the Pack that "They're like us. They defend the innocent, and they do it on television". I've wondered since rewatching the episode and noting that line whether it was designed as a little "meta-joke" (a rare one in "Gargoyles", of course).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 7:51:50 pm EST from 68.99.93.213
Eighth! Very stressed about tomorrow, and very excited for Quest #4! It stands to be an exciting, hopefully rewarding week.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 6:36:35 pm EST from 69.118.30.106
Voted already. Hope for Harris.:-D
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 6:35:09 pm EST from 68.119.3.1
It was very cheering to see Quest #4 listed in my comic shop's newsletter this morning. I will have to see if I can get in on Wednesday to pick it up. (Actually, at this point, I probably need to pick up #3 again for a refresher.)
Lots of people in this part of the country don't need the reminder to vote. I went past the branch library earlier today, and the line for early voting was at least a block long. That's impressive.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 6:12:43 pm EST from 108.69.72.60
I also needed a reminder for the next issue.
Certainly didn't need one to vote though. Do your civic duty, people!
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 5:10:08 pm EST from 135.180.3.149
I did need the reminder, thank you!
And second the assertion that everyone in the US should vote if able.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 1:30:36 pm EST from 75.233.83.254
Third!
CarumboZabumbo> As if we needed the reminder! It's been a long few months!
Don't forget to vote, everyone in the US (if you have not already!)
Matt
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 8:34:39 am EST from 204.184.178.1
Second.
Dull November brings the blast
Then the leaves are whirling past.
From "The Garden Year" by Sara Coleridge.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 7:47:55 am EST from 68.99.93.213
First.
I'm just here to remind everyone that the next issue of Quest is finally coming out in two days.
CarumboZabumbo
"Ugh... looks like there's another fisticuffs coming. You know, this routine just kills me." - Mickey Mouse, "Lost & Found"
posted @ Mon, Nov 4, 2024 7:41:21 am EST from 79.32.55.25