MATTHEW - Thanks. I doubt I'll be doing many other opening quotes in the reviews to come, but there may be one or two. The one I'd picked for Puck just stood out to me. (I also briefly considered "If we spirits have offended..." but the "merry wanderer of the night" felt far more appropriate.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Nov 24, 2024 8:54:54 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Glad I checked the archives. As again, the original element of TimeDancer was changed to the Phoenix transporting Brooklyn to different times/places, I was curious if that meant the portals he fell into were made at random or still by intent.

Greg suggested the latter.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sun, Nov 24, 2024 3:25:03 am EST from 68.119.3.1

Thanks, Todd. As my reviews got lengthier I decided to try for some quotes relevant for the events of whichever episode I was doing. Some profound like that passage from the Quran in Young Justice, others not so much like that line from Sealab 2021 in The Owl House.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sun, Nov 24, 2024 3:04:21 am EST from 135.180.3.149

And to any lurkers present or future, in "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", Macbeth didn't seal the Scrolls of Merlin by his own hand.

His statement was from the Inscription by Merlin.
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Nov 23, 2024 6:20:10 pm EST from 68.119.3.1

MATTHEW - Thanks for your comments. Incidentally, a couple of elements in it were inspired by your own past reviews. The idea for opening with the quote from "A Midsummer Night's Dream" came to me while writing the piece on Puck's legendary background; I was double-checking some of the information in it and the section on Puck in the book on faerie-legends I was reading included that passage. But it also reminded me of how you'd opened some of your episode reviews for "The Owl House" with quotes, and I thought of doing something similar here. (I now regret not having thought of that when I was doing my review of "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" and similarly opening with a quote from Merlin - the most likely one would be this piece from Tennyson's "Idylls of the King": "the most famous man of all those times,/ Merlin, who knew the range of all their arts,/ Had built the King his havens, ships, and halls,/ Was also Bard, and knew the starry heavens;/ The people call'd him Wizard".)

Also, my pieces on the background on Merlin and Puck were inspired by a feature in your "Young Justice" reviews where you'd fill in the DC Comics background of one of the characters from each episode. And thanks for bringing up the Puca; I'd thought of mentioning it, but then forgot about it. There'll be a few other such "legendary background notes", though I can't guarantee one for every real-world legend that got into "Gargoyles"; some I'm more familiar with than others.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Nov 23, 2024 7:46:25 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Talk about a double whammy, last episode we find out that Arthur, Merlin and Camelot are historical figures and now we find out that faeries are real.

This is an episode that gets a lot of attention (and not just because of the fan art potential). Besides the wackiness of the whole status quo being turned upside down at least just for an episode (another common cartoon trope) we have a big change to one of the primary antagonists and some foreshadowing hidden away in the dialogue.

This was my introduction to Puck and A Midsummer Night's Dream which is my favorite of Shakespeare's comedies. Brent Spiner manages to capture the inherent mischief of Oberon's jester perfectly and I've always liked his elfish design here. One thing that struck me some time ago is that this version of Puck loves his shenanigans more than anything, perhaps more than even his transformative playacting. As will be revealed later, he has absolutely no problem being stick-in-the-mud Owen if it means getting to be right hand of Xanatos, who always has some scheme ready. Oberon may be his master but humans have much more potential for fun.

I think that's the reason he wasn't too upset with Demona by the end, he might've been her prisoner but she unintentionally gave him the chance to flex his magic in new and exciting ways and that was its own reward. Her attitude however could be seen as ungracious and you know what they say about the Fae and ingratitude...

Another note, Puck's name is also derived from the Puca, who were noted shapeshifters, especially horses. Hence the line from Puck, "When I a fat and bean-fed horse beguile,
Neighing in likeness of a filly foal"
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sat, Nov 23, 2024 3:40:11 am EST from 135.180.3.149

Todd Jensen> Waiting for you to get to this episode. Yeah I reread Greg's memo not too long before and as was included on it:

"GOLIATH BLAMES XANATOS...
For everything, it seems. In "Lighthouse" and to a lesser extent in "Leader", we've played the beat of Goliath mistakenly going to the castle to confront Xanatos for something that the latter had nothing to do with. I think by now, Goliath has learned his lesson. Particularly since the going's on here smack much more of Demona or Macbeth than Xanatos."

I don't know, have a creativity demon with such happening?:-D
Antiyonder
posted @ Sat, Nov 23, 2024 12:18:55 am EST from 68.119.3.1

I am that merry wanderer of the night.
I jest to Oberon, and make him smile,
When I a fat and bean-fed horse beguile,
Neighing in likeness of a filly foal:
And sometimes lurk I in a gossip's bowl,
In very likeness of a roasted crab;
And when she drinks, against her lips I bob,
And on her wither'd dewlap pour the ale.
The wisest aunt, telling the saddest tale,
Sometime for three-foot stool mistaketh me;
Then slip I from her bum, down topples she,
And "tailor" cries, and falls into a cough;
And then the whole quire hold their hips and loff,
And waxen in their mirth, and neeze, and swear
A merrier hour was never wasted there.


I rewatched "The Mirror" today.

This is a major episode. It introduces Puck and the Third Race. It features Demona on-stage for the first time since Season Two began (she gets a couple of mentions in earlier episodes), and leads to a major change for her at the end. And, perhaps most importantly, it develops Goliath and Elisa's story. I believe that this is the first episode in Season Two which shows that they have feelings for each other beyond friendship, if buried (especially on Elisa's part), and it certainly does so well.

Seeing the way Puck fulfilled Demona's demands makes one thing clear; Xanatos's decision to pick service from Owen over a wish from Puck was probably the best choice he ever made. Not only in seeing Owen's efficiency, but also the way that Puck granted Demona's wishes. Small wonder that, by the end, she just wants him to go! (The way he "botches" it up - particularly the "Oh, you wanted to me to turn the New Yorkers back into humans, rather than Goliath and his clan" moment - echoes the confusion he made with Demetrius and Lysander back in "A Midsummer Night's Dream", though there it seems to have been more a case of "All those Athenians look alike to me". Oberon does wonder, though, if Puck was doing it on purpose.)

And most significant of all is the way that Puck rewrites everyone's memories so that they believe they've always been that way and that it's their surroundings that changed. No doubt part of it, at least, was that the results would be more entertaining (to Puck) that way; you just know that when Elisa responds to being turned into a gargoyle by crying that Goliath's the one who's been transformed, Puck would really want to see the look on Goliath's face in response!

And it gets even funnier when we see the gargoyle-New Yorkers fleeing in terror from the now human-clan (first their initial glance - made all the better by Hudson's "Are you sure this is a good idea?" remark, and especially by Ed Asner's delivery of that line - and then the trio's "monster act"). I've mentioned before, though, that there may be a more serious side beneath the "gargoyles terrified of humans" scene. Remember that, for all the fact that under regular circumstances, humans are the ones who are scared of gargoyles, they're the ones now dominating the planet, while gargoyles are almost extinct, reduced to a few clans in hiding, and thanks to human attacks on them. (I'm also reminded of James Dunning's "Warlock Holmes" series, a humorous re-imagining of Sherlock Holmes as a rather dim-witted wizard, with Watson having to serve as the brains of their partnership here. Its versions of Inspectors Gregson and Lestrade were done as an ogre and a vampire respectively; when Watson, first meeting them, describes himself as a mere human, they protest, pointing out that it's humans who rule and mythical creatures like them who are extremely scarce.) Which leads one to wonder whether it might indeed make better sense for the monsters to be scared of us.

And we also have the moment where, before the gargoyles are changed into humans, they are able to stroll around Manhattan without its people scarcely noticing - beyond, of course, those three female gargoyles who flirt with the trio. (Nobody seems to notice, either, that they're walking about the city in only loincloths. Of course, this *is* New York.)

And we have a neat reverse with Elisa being the one to rescue Goliath when he's falling. [SPOILER] And this rewatch came the day after the "Voices From the Eyrie" podcast on "M. I. A." first aired, with its mention of how Greg Weisman worked hard to ensure that Elisa got some moments of rescuing Goliath as well as he rescuing her. [/SPOILER]

Brooklyn's the one who brings up "A Midsummer Night's Dream"; evidently he'd followed up on that suggestion in "Enter Macbeth" that reading up on Shakespeare's plays was a good idea.

Another feature introduced for the first time is gargoyles wondering what it must be like to see the sun, the way humans can do. And Demona becomes the first gargoyle in the series to experience it, and comment excitedly on it. (So will Iago in Coldstone's body in "High Noon" and Goliath in "Eye of the Storm". The Mayan gargoyles haven't done the same yet - but when we first met them, they were used to it and had been apparently doing it for years.)

Finally, we get the moment where Demona comments on Puck serving "the human". I'm amazed now that I didn't notice that line when I first watched "The Mirror" and didn't give any thought to what Demona was talking about. Of course, it stood out to me when I rewatched it after "The Gathering".

A BIT ON PUCK: Like Merlin, Puck was a blend of two legendary figures, this one courtesy of Shakespeare. "Puck" proper was originally not a single person, but a sort of species of malevolent fairies or even demons (William Langland in his "Piers Plowman" called Hell "Pouk's Pinfold" and Edmund Spenser (of "Faerie Queene" fame), in a poem wishing blessings upon a newly-wedded couple, asked to keep them safe from "the Pouke" among other evil creatures.

Shakespeare, of course, made him more a "harmless trickster", as Elisa put it, and merged him with Robin Goodfellow, another mischievous fairy (at times imagined as the son of Oberon by a human woman; this parentage is unlikely for the Puck of the Gargoyles Universe, though). Robin Goodfellow was often imagined as a household spirit like a brownie, who'd tidy up the house at night; Shakespeare's Puck himself alludes to this, announcing when he arrives just before Oberon and Titania and their court at the end of the play, "I am sent, with broom, before,/ To sweep the dust behind the door". This function ties in very well with Puck's alter ego as Owen Burnett, who serves as a very efficient and effective household manager. (Did the production team have this aspect of Puck/Robin Goodfellow in mind when they decided that he and Owen were the same?) Puck's "Robin Goodfellow" alias hasn't been mentioned in "Gargoyles" yet - though Greg's mentioned that they did consider using it when they were concerned about the possible consequences of mispronouncing Puck's name. (Similar concerns caused the British space program in real life to name Britain's first satellite - originally intended to be called Puck - Prospero instead. I doubt that the satellite, whatever its name, would have been able to orbit the Earth in just forty minutes.) Another of Puck's aliases mentioned in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" is "Hobgoblin" or "Goblin", which hasn't yet been mentioned in "Gargoyles", but which *did* make its way into "The Spectacular Spider-Man", understandably....

FAVORITE LINES.

ONE OF DEMONA'S HENCHMEN: Who lives here, anyway? Dracula's daughter?

{Demona snarls in response.}


ELISA: Wait, wait, wait. Shape-shifters, elves, fairies? You mean they're real.

HUDSON: As real as I am, if the stories be true.


PUCK: Is this how you welcome all your guests?

DEMONA: Any who would turn on me. And you're not a guest. You serve the human; you can serve me.

PUCK: Serving humans is fun. They have a sense of humor; you have none.

DEMONA: Perhaps not, Puck. But I have you.


BROOKLYN: Hey, wouldn't it be great to be a shape-shifter?

LEXINGTON: We wouldn't have to hide. We could fit in anywhere.

BROADWAY: We could find new friends... maybe even love.

HUDSON: Be careful what you wish for, lad.


PUCK: Well, let's get this over with, shall we? How can I be of service, hmmm? Out with it; I haven't got all night.

DEMONA: You've got all millennium, if I choose. I'm too vulnerable during the day. I don't want to turn to stone any more.

PUCK: Of course. You want to walk down Fifth Avenue in the sunshine. I'm sure you'll fit right in.


PUCK (looking at the image of Goliath in the Mirror): How quaint. After all these centuries, you're still carrying a torch. Well, if that's what you want, I can make him love you again. Piece of cake, given your charming personality.


PUCK: Did you say *that* human, or that *human*? Oh, never mind, I'll figure it out. This just might be fun after all.


ELISA (just transformed into a gargoyle): Goliath, this is wonderful! You've been changed into a gargoyle!

GOLIATH: What?


GOLIATH: I never realized, when you were a human, how beautiful you are.

ELISA (amusedly): You mean, you thought I was ugly?

GOLIATH: Well - uh - careful, updraft!


ELISA: Everyone in Manhattan's been turned into a - a human!

GOLIATH (shaking his head): No, no, no, no, no!


LEXINGTON: It's too weird. Kinda fun, but weird.


DEMONA: I told you to turn the gargoyles into humans!

PUCK: Oh, you meant these gargoyles! I thought you meant Goliath and his clan. My mistake!

DEMONA: Your last mistake!

PUCK: Hold on, I thought you'd be pleased. Goliath is a puny human now, and at your mercy.

{Demona grins fiendishly as she realizes Puck's point.}


NEW YORKERS (upon seeing the now-human Manhattan gargs): Humans! Look out! Run! Humans! Look out!

HUDSON (turning to Goliath): Are you sure this is a good idea?


PUCK (as Bronx charges at him): Let's improve your looks.

{He turns Bronx into a dog - a large, fierce-looking one (apparently an Irish wolfhound) - who continues to charge at Puck.}

PUCK: Should have tried the chihuahua.


DEMONA: You're no match for me as a puny human.

GOLIATH (as Elisa takes down Demona): My strength has never depended on brute force, Demona, but on true friends.


LEXINGTON: No way we can take 'em.

BROOKLYN: Hey, we're the monsters, remember?

{The now-human trio growl and snarl at the gargoyle New Yorkers, who turn and flee in terror.}


BROADWAY: It's almost dawn.

HUDSON: I would have liked to have seen the sun, just once.

GOLIATH: Elisa, I -

ELISA: Yeah, I know. You're as relieved as I am that things are back to normal.

GOLIATH: That's not what I was going to say.

{He turns to stone.}

ELISA: I know. But that's the way it is.


DEMONA (staring out the window at the risen sun): I don't believe it. He actually did it. And the sun is so warm. I never dreamed it would feel this good.

{She sees her now-human reflection in Titania's Mirror.}

DEMONA: No!

{Accompanied by the sound of breaking glass, presumably that of the Mirror.}
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Nov 22, 2024 9:00:46 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

[SPOILER] Greg Guler's memories of the initial plans for "Gargoyles" when it was going to be a comedy-adventure series reminded me of a silly little creativity demon of mine (probably inspired by "Turtles Forever") where a group of mischievous little gargoyles stumble into Manhattan through a gateway between worlds, and the Manhattan clan has to point out to them that the adversaries here are a lot more dangerous than the ones in their own world - and note, after there's no counterpart to Goliath in this alternate clan, that that explains a lot.

Incidentally, inspired by the joke in the "Voices From the Eyrie" podcast on "Sanctuary" about Bronx getting a croissant off-stage during the visit to Paris, I've similarly imagined Bronx making an off-stage visit to Trafalgar Square. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Nov 22, 2024 8:36:35 am EST from 68.99.93.213

"A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" is a great character building episode and fairly important specifically because of that. TV shows with a "reading is cool" moral are pretty common but animated shows that focus on adult illiteracy aren't as common and having it delivered through Robbins, a professional writer, makes it a bit more realistic. And it's all the more important these days considering how younger generations aren't reading quite like they used to.

We get a new ally to the clan of sorts and I liked that Robbins and Hudson are alike in being old veterans, the whole bit where they just spend the whole night talking is pretty realistic I've discovered. The "Blind and the Beast" is another common trope ranging from the tragic like Frankenstein to the hilarious like Young Frankenstein I think the two figures just chatting isn't common however.

We also get a bit more depth into Macbeth here showing he's not quite the antagonist the previous ones are. While he's certainly lying about being a friend of Hudson, I'd say his cordiality to Robbins was authentic. Funny that him waxing poetic about King Arthur would be the thing that intrigues Broadway on reading, but Greg has often had pearls of wisdom come from villains in other shows. I personally like to think that if the clan hadn't interrupted his ceremony he would've been angered by the lack of magic from the scrolls, but would've privately kept them for his own collection. Incidentally, I think the animal heads on the ends of the scrolls might be old dragon heads. But that's just my take.

It's also a personal headcanon that Robbins really wanted to have a dog with the name Gilgamesh and when he found out that his guide dog was a girl he just shrugged and decided Gilly would be a good nickname.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, Nov 22, 2024 12:14:55 am EST from 135.180.3.149

Into
Interesting that the Xanatos family Thanksgiving doesn't include Petros.
Ftmb
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 11:12:11 pm EST from 100.36.132.121

CRAIG> Thank you for the feedback, it was much appreciated. And I believed that the Douglas Bader conversation was an important discussion to have.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 10:38:43 pm EST from 67.189.200.184

Oh, and Merlin being based on the joining of two figures - one who supplied the base for his story, the other his name - has a parallel with another noted personage (though from Shakespeare's plays rather than straightforward legend), which I'll be discussing when I reach "Bad Guys"....
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 9:50:23 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

CRAIG - Glad you enjoyed it. Merlin's one legendary figure who interests me a lot, and I enjoyed sharing what I knew about the early stages of his legend (particularly the connection with a king named Rhydderch - who, incidentally, was portrayed as having married Myrddin's sister, variously known as Gwenddydd or Ganieda; that item definitely felt worth mentioning after "Dark Ages: Alliance").
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 9:30:32 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Very exciting news about the Free Comic Day Demona giveaway. I'm curious whether this will be a standalone, or will tie in to the upcoming miniseries drawn by Paur. Either way, hopefully it helps attract new readers.

Glad to see Voices from the Eyrie back to doing episode reviews, and with a particularly good discussion about a great episode. [SPOILER] I appreciated the very candid discussion about Douglas Bader, and the complexities of admiring flawed people; certainly not an easy subject for Greg to have addressed, I imagine, so kudos to him for being open and willing to share, and to the hosts for broaching the topic to begin with.

While it aggravated me to learn that Greg wasn't allowed to mention Nazism in the first issue of Quest, I'm glad he shared that tidbit anyway, as I always enjoy these "peeks behind the curtain." I wonder if Ms. Aguilar's mysterious late husband was meant to have been a Nazi in hiding, given the Argentinian setting.
[/SPOILER]

And, Todd, thanks for the thorough notes on "Lighthouse" and particularly on Merlin.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 9:04:37 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

I'm curious about where this story will be set myself, but we'll have to wait and see. I hope I can order that issue through the mail, like all the others, and that these "Free Comic Day" issues can't only be gotten by walking into a comics store.

I got to hear the "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on "M. I. A.", and enjoyed it. And I also re-watched "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", making this quite a "Gargoyles" day for me.

"A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" is a particular favorite of mine. For a start, it has a good message handled well, with Broadway and Hudson both learning the value of reading. I particularly liked how the story gave them different responses: Broadway just "who cares about reading?", while Hudson fears that it's too late for him to learn. We also get introduced to Jeffrey Robbins who'll return a few more times [SPOILER] including the latest issue of "Gargoyles Quest" - where, incidentally, we learn that Hudson's read around twenty books by now [/SPOILER] and who even supplied one of the rare good moments in "The Goliath Chronicles".

We also get Macbeth's return, and get a sense of his complexity to come. He's the antagonist in this episode, obviously, stealing a couple of scrolls - not to mention planning to use Broadway as a guinea pig (though, fortunately for Broadway, it turns out that the scrolls have very different contents than Macbeth had thought, meaning no danger of being turned into a starfish or something), but there's a sign of something deeper and nobler in him when he makes that grand speech about Merlin and King Arthur, and what he focuses on is the "justice and compassion" of Arthur's reign, rather than simply might. He even lets the gargoyles leave with the Scrolls, at the end.

And I really enjoyed the way they handled Merlin in it. He's turned up in a lot of animated series; you can be certain that if one gets enough episodes and the concept fits, Merlin (and other Arthurian elements) will show up at some point. But it doesn't treat him as just another wizard, but focuses on his role in tutoring the young Arthur in a manner more evocative of, say, T. H. White's "The Once and Future King". It really gives you a sense of the grandeur - and tragic end - of Arthur's kingdom.

(Many years ago, I was asked to write a piece on "Gargoyles" for an upcoming anthology of articles on the Middle Ages as depicted on television. I devoted some of the article to the Arthurian elements in "Gargoyles", and included Macbeth's speech in full. Unfortunately, the anthology got cancelled because they didn't get enough submissions.)

The episode opens with an owl; I can't help wondering whether it might have been a descendant of Archimedes from "The Sword in the Stone". Even if it wasn't, it certainly matched the setting.

Greg Weisman said in the ramble on this episode that the warning on Merlin's chest, "The seeker of knowledge has nothing to fear; the destroyer everything" was designed to deal with anyone planning to burn the Scrolls like Hakon. I had a little interpretation of my own for it; the "destroyer" could also be interpreted as someone planning to use the Scrolls as a weapon (as Macbeth intended to do, and as Goliath feared Xanatos would also do - and I can think of a few other candidates, for that matter, such as a certain immortal red-headed female gargoyle whom we'll see in the next episode); the Scrolls, however, turn out to contain Merlin's memoirs instead, making them valuable only to the "seeker of knowledge".

(And I definitely agreed with Hudson and Broadway on how important it was to save the Scrolls. Think of it: an eyewitness account of King Arthur's times written by Merlin himself - just imagine what that would mean for Arthurian scholarship. It reminds me a bit, actually, of a children's fantasy, "Over Sea, Under Stone" by Susan Cooper - which I highly recommend, by the way - about three children in modern-day Cornwall seeking to recover a grail - not *the* Grail, but a cup modelled on it and containing valuable information about Arthur's life and deeds - with some help from their "great-uncle" Merriman Lyon (at the end, one of the children takes a closer look at the name "Merriman Lyon" or "Merry Lyon" for short, and starts to wonder....). In the final scene, they've donated the grail to a museum and overhear some academics looking at it and discussing it; some are sceptical about it actually shedding light on Arthur's story, while others support it, one saying eagerly "here's the first evidence since Nennuis [sic] of a Celtic Arthur - a real king -")

Goliath mentions the library containing several books on Merlin, which he's evidently already discovered. Greg Weisman mentioned in his ramble that he'd wanted to name some of the books, but didn't get permission to do so. One he specifically mentioned in the ramble was "The Crystal Cave" by Mary Stewart, which re-imagined Merlin's story as it might actually have happened, with the fantastic elements rationalized, but in a way that leaves you with the feeling that something remarkable has happened. (Greg also indicated that Jeffrey Robbins' novels took a similar approach towards legendary figures - he cited Gilgamesh and Beowulf as likely candidates.) I've thought it a pity that they couldn't get the rights to mention "The Crystal Cave" in particular, since it was published in 1970 and "Lighthouse" first aired in 1995. They could have given it a 25h anniversary salute.

This time around, I noticed that the rods for the scrolls ended in animal heads (though I couldn't tell what specific animals they were).

I get a chuckle out of Bronx sleeping on Lexington's magazines while Lex is trying to read them - then jumping up, running over to Hudson's recliner, and going back to sleep there. (Of course, he's been doing a lot less snoozing now that he's got an egg to guard - and we'll be seeing him even more in action come the Winter Special, just under three weeks away now.)

This is another fun episode for Owen, in his exchanges with Goliath, Lexington, and Brooklyn. When Goliath demands to be taken to the missing members of the clan and Owen replies, "You should know I can't do that" - the way he says it, I wonder if that's to do with his not being allowed to use Puck's magic while Owen.

On Macbeth's alias: Lennox and Macduff as fellows seems particularly appropriate, since they enter the play together at one point (they're the ones knocking on the door during the Porter scene).

One other lesson to be learned from this episode besides "reading is a very good idea": high-tech cannons may not be the best way to defend your home from intruders. They wind up doing more damage to Macbeth's house than the gargoyles could have done (if you overlook Goliath setting it on fire, of course - and Macbeth clearly rebuilt the place in a hurry).

A BIT ON MERLIN: The legendary Merlin seems to have been a merging of two earlier figures. The first was a boy named Ambrosius who appears in the ninth century "Historia Brittonum" (a book popularly ascribed to a monk named Nennius, though Arthurian scholars now doubt he was the author). A king named Vortigern was building a castle in northern Wales, but it kept falling down; he consulted his magicians, who told him that he must find a boy without a father, kill him, and sprinkle his blood on the foundations. They discovered such a fatherless boy in the form of Ambrosius, but he calmly announced that the real reason why the castle kept falling down was because there was an underground lake beneath the building site, weakening it; furthermore, in the pool (as Vortigern found when he had the site dug up) were two snakes, one red and one white, which began fighting each other, and which represented the struggle between the Britons and the Saxons (the latter of whom Vortigern had unwisely invited into Britain to fight his enemies, only to find them at his own throat next - it was as great a blunder as the Captain and Demona letting the Vikings into Castle Wyvern). He then, seemingly contradicting the earlier description of him as fatherless, announced that his father was a high-ranking Roman official. (It's thought that Ambrosius was partly based on a historical British leader in the fifth century, Ambrosius Aurelianus, who was later on depicted in legend as Uther Pendragon's older brother and King Arthur's uncle.)

The second figure was a bard named Myrddin in the service of a king in northern Britain named Gwenddolau. When Gwenddolau was slain in battle by a rival king, Myrddin was so upset that he went mad and fled into the nearby woods of what is now southern Scotland; there, while lamenting Gwenddolau's death, he also uttered many prophecies about the future. (The rival king's name, incidentally, was Rhydderch - which might raise some speculations here.) The battle seems to have been an actual historical one, which took place at a place called Arderydd, around 573.

A 12th century writer named Geoffrey of Monmouth merged the boy Ambrosius from the "Historia Brittonum" and the mad bard Myrddin into a single figure, whom he renamed "Merlin", also calling him "Merlin Ambrosius" as if to acknowledge the merging. His Merlin actually seems to have been largely based on Ambrosius, with Myrddin mostly supplying the name and a reputation for foreseeing the future (which apparently seems to have become well-known by Geoffrey's time; he interrupted his account of Merlin's meeting with Vortigern to give an account of Merlin's predictions of future events to come, explaining that when he'd just gotten to this point, a lot of people in Britain were suddenly talking about Merlin - he doesn't say what brought that on - and begging him to write down Merlin's prophecies; he finally gave in when a bishop whom he respected supported their pleas), while Ambrosius supplied the first actual adventure (Geoffrey left out the part about his being really the son of a Roman official, and turned the serpents into dragons - I wonder whether, in the Gargoyles Universe, the red and white dragons were related to Wyvern). Geoffrey also added in a few other feats for Merlin later on in the story (such as transporting Stonehenge from Ireland to its present location on Salisbury Plain, and arranging Arthur's conception). Merlin drops out of the story after Arthur's conception, but later writers remedied that, to have him assist and advise the young Arthur as well. (Geoffrey later wrote a book called "The Life of Merlin", based on the "mad Myrddin" element, though mentioning also his deeds during Arthur's time - Geoffrey particularly claims that Merlin was the one who bore the wounded King Arthur to Avalon, though most later accounts of Arthur's story dropped that element and had him already sealed away by Nimue.)

Merlin was perhaps more famous in the Middle Ages for foreseeing the future than for being a wizard or his connections to King Arthur. (I wonder whether the Gargoyles Universe Merlin, when he wrote those Scrolls, foresaw the effect they would have on two gargoyles over a thousand years later, leading them to discover the value of reading....)

All in all, a lovely episode, and one which I still highly recommend.

FAVORITE QUOTES.

FLEANCE (looking at the damage to Banquo's Harrier jet): Hey, that's not covered by your insurance.

BANQUO: It gets worse. I lost the canister.

FLEANCE: You what? The boss'll have you for dinner with a spoon.

BANQUO: We still have yours. One out of two's not bad.

{They then discover that Broadway's made off with the canister Fleance had taken.}

FLEANCE: Oh, man!


GOLIATH: Xanatos! Hudson! Broadway! where are they?

OWEN: I suppose they could be anywhere.

GOLIATH: No games! Take us to them!

OWEN: You should know I can't do that.


ROBBINS: My name's Robbins. Jeffrey Robbins. And you?

HUDSON: Hudson. Like the river.


HUDSON (staring at the books crowding Robbins' shelves): You wrote all these?

ROBBINS (laughing): Wouldn't that be something?


BROADWAY: What's the big deal about these scrolls? Who was this Merlin? Just another stupid magician.

MACBETH: He was a singular spectacle. A bearded old man who took a ragged young boy, and with magic and wisdom, turned him into the greatest king this world will ever see. A king who ruled with justice and compassion. Who took the torn remnants of warring tribes and knit them into a country of beauty and civilization. With Merlin always by his side - until it fell. Merlin's magic was stronger than everything, except the human heart.

BROADWAY: You were there?

MACBETH (with a laugh): I'm old, but I'm not that old. Obviously I read about it.

BROADWAY: But you describe it like you were there.


HUDSON: But I'm too old to learn.

ROBBINS: Oh, hogwash! I had to learn Braille when I was almost forty, and I'll learn a new way to read when I'm eighty, if I'll have to.

HUDSON: Well, who would teach me? I've never told my clan I can't read.

ROBBINS: I can teach you. But that's not really the point, is it?

HUDSON: It shames me.

ROBBINS: I understand. But it isn't shameful to be illiterate, Hudson. It's only a shame to stay that way.


HUDSON (looking at Robbins' phone book): Magic book.

ROBBINS: Aren't they all?


MACBETH (reading the Scrolls aloud): "He was a scabby, bony boy when first I saw this once and future king. Had I not known what his destiny held, I would have laughed aloud." What's this? "Though young and not yet formed, his mind was open and eager to learn -" This is a diary! Where are the spells?

{Goliath swoops down on him, bowls him over, and snatches the Scroll.}

MACBETH: You caught me in a foul mood, monster!

{He charges at Goliath, who leaps out of the way.}

GOLIATH: Release Broadway!

MACBETH (pointing his "electric gun" at Goliath): Heh! Or what?

GOLIATH: Or I'll burn the Scrolls.

MACBETH: Go ahead. They're worthless. No magic at all.

BROADWAY: No! They *are* magic! You can't burn them, Goliath! You can't! It's Merlin's life in his own words - and when you read them, they take you there. I *is* magic, Goliath. Precious magic.

HUDSON: Aye, lad. 'Twould be the greatest shame to lose them.

MACBETH (silent for a moment, then releasing Broadway): You're all trespassing. Now take the Scrolls and go.


ROBBINS: "The written word is all that stands between memory and oblivion. Without books as our anchors, we are cast adrift, neither teaching nor learning. They are windows on the past, mirrors on the present, and prisms reflecting all possible futures. Books are lighthouses, erected in the dark sea of time."
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 8:35:55 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Kinda sounds like Demona will be hatching a whole new scheme that the Manhattan Clan must thwart post-Quest. I believe they are going to tire of her antics. Not sure on the time frame though, maybe there will be a time skip after Quest. Also sounds like some of the story will happen while the Clan was still under the Sleep Spell. Perhaps that's where we'll see some of those cat and mouse games Demona played with the Illuminati. Or maybe parts of "The Last" will become canonized.
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 2:59:02 pm EST from 204.184.178.1

And here's the solicit!

GARGOYLES: DEMONA #0 FCBD 2025
Writer: Greg Weisman
Artist: Frank Paur
Letterer: Jeff Eckleberry
Cover Artist: Meghan Hetrick

VENGEANCE TEN CENTURIES IN THE MAKING!

The tragic tale of Demona, sworn enemy of Disney’s Gargoyles, begins in Dynamite Entertainment’s special Free Comic Book Day issue #0 of Gargoyles: Demona!

For a thousand years, while the heroic Gargoyles slept, their nemesis Demona has been wide awake — scheming and plotting her revenge against humanity for destroying her kind. And although Goliath and his clan of Gargoyles will do everything they can to protect their adopted New York City, they are not prepared for the lengths to which Demona will go in order to enact her twisted plan for justice — or for how large a part they themselves will play in carrying it out!

Written by Gargoyles creator GREG WEISMAN, illustrated by acclaimed artist (and veteran of the original animated series) FRANK PAUR, and featuring a stunning cover by MEGHAN HETRICK, Gargoyles: Demona #0 kicks off an electrifying new chapter in the timeless saga of the Manhattan Clan — culminating in an unbelievable four-page preview that will leave readers old and new clamoring for more!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 1:05:15 pm EST from 67.189.200.184

Amazing to have a new announcement although given Dynamite's attachment to Villains series, it seemed almost surprising Demona hadn't spun off yet. Also nice to have VftE back with another good episode - a good day to be a 'Gargoyles' fan!
Ed
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 12:06:35 pm EST from 81.158.122.172

Bishansky definitely has his finger on the pulse.

This is exciting! Glad to get something new announced. I know 2025 is slated to be a good year for Gargoyles, but we've heard so little on the official channels.
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 9:02:46 am EST from 204.184.178.1

BISHANSKY - Trust you to be the one who'd notice and report that comic. :)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 8:25:38 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Well, well, well...

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoop-the-full-list-of-free-comic-book-day-comics-for-2025/

That's interesting.
Greg Bishansky
"Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day."
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 8:19:05 am EST from 67.189.200.184

The winter special looks neat [SPOILER] and Bronx playing around in the snow is just adorable. [/SPOILER]

"Legion" is pretty fascinating, the series certainly delves into science fiction quite a bit but the cyberspace angle is pretty much unique to this episode and parts of "High Noon." What's also unique is that we get our first look into the other members of the late Wyvern Clan. We didn't see much of them before the the massacre so this was a good, if interesting and also kind of posthumously, way of exploring them. It also marks the second female gargoyle we've seen and also the second evil gargoyle we've seen.

We also get another bit of frustration from detective Bluestone, one more thing that will lead to an important character moment in "Revelations."
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Nov 21, 2024 2:16:47 am EST from 135.180.3.149

Love those pages from the Winter Special!

[SPOILER]
I recall Greg said on the podcast that there would be very little dialogue in the story, but it seems that there might not be any at all. Nate's tweet credits letterer Jeff Eckleberry only with sound effects. I'm very excited for this.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 9:04:14 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

Yeah, hard to guess where things are going with [SPOILER] Coldstone. Especially with Greg's ramble and specifying that Lexington mentioning how he and Goliath haven't always been friend isn't just restricted to now. As Greg puts it, Othello was always a hothead. [/SPOILER]
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 8:58:11 pm EST from 68.119.3.1

PHOENICIAN - Thanks for sharing that with us. [SPOILER] Until now, I'd thought that the missing family member whom Bronx would meet was a human one - a small child - but it seems now that it's a dog instead - which matches Bronx well. I'm looking forward to this story. [/SPOILER]

I rewatched "Legion" today. I remember understanding it better on later viewings than the first time I saw it, where I initially thought, when Coldstone started acting strangely, that the virus was erasing his memory. Now I recognize that it was due to the switches between "Othello", "Desdemona", and "Iago". (Note: for clarity's sake, I'm using "Othello" to refer to the original Wyvern gargoyle and his consciousness in Coldstone's body, and Coldstone to refer to the half animated stone, half mechanical gargoyle-body that's housing these three gargoyle souls.) Alesand mentioned in "Dark Ages: Alliance" that she understood the "Ur-Othello" play better the second time around, and I think the same applies to "Legion" (though I don't know if Greg Weisman had that in mind when he wrote that remark).

And we hear Michael Dorn voicing all three of them when they're speaking out of Coldstone's mouth, but modifying their delivery depending on who's doing the talking; it's the same actor each time, but you can tell when it's "Desdemona" speaking as opposed to when it's "Othello" speaking, or "Iago", for that matter. I think it's a testimony to the voice actors' skill that they took this approach, and we'll meet it again in "Possession". (I definitely prefer this approach to the more common way they do voices being affected by "mind-swapping" in cartoons, though I recall one case where I thought it at least excusable. That was the episode of "Batman Beyond" where Talia showed up and turned out to be now housing Reis el-Ghul's consciousness. They had her speaking in Reis's voice once they revealed what was going on, but I thought it understandable; it's unthinkable to feature him in a story set in the "Batman: TAS" universe and not include David Warner's delivery.)

Goliath's interaction with "Desdemona", both in "Othello"'s memories and inside Coldstone, [SPOILER] reminded me of the scene between them in the most recent issue of "Gargoyles Quest" [/SPOILER]

One thing that struck me this time around: when Xanatos's programming re-activates Coldstone, it sends him, not after the gargoyles, but to the Golden Cup Bakery Building to obtain all those files. It's another one of those moments that shows that Xanatos, unlike a lot of "animated antagonists", isn't primarily after the leads (though he'll pursue them when it's important to his plans), but after more general accumulation of power, wealth, and other resources.

(I also noticed, this time around, Coldstone's vision, when he's breaking into the "Bakery", containing pieces of text such as "two humans - semi-conscious". I believe we saw some of that in the scene where he and Coldfire were helping Brooklyn on the prison-raid in "Here in Manhattan", but I'll have to reread those issues to confirm that.)

Something else that stood out to me. I've mentioned before how during my 25th anniversary viewing of "Gargoyles", five years ago, I noticed a lot of mentions of hunters and hunting, mostly involving human hostility towards gargoyles, which definitely felt like a build-up to "Hunter's Moon". This time around, I've noticed that the word "trust" turns up often in "Gargoyles", with many discussions about it; it's a clear motif in the series.

I might have mentioned this before, but the scene where Goliath and Lexington meet Coldstone reminded me of Greg Weisman's rejected proposal for a movie adaptation of "Gargoyles" in which those three would be the gargoyles to awaken in modern-day Manhattan (and "Othello" would meet an unpleasant fate in a manner designed to set up a future movie involving Coldstone).

The Xanatos Program inside Coldstone feels almost like a foreshadowing of the one in "Future Tense" now. I wonder whether the production team indeed mentally connected the two.

I still recall spotting "Desdemona" and "Iago"'s names in the credits at the end, the first time I saw this episode, and eagerly hoping that I hadn't imagined or misread it. I got the significance at once, of course, being a Shakespeare buff. The second dose of Shakespeare in the series (the first, of course, being Macbeth's entrance in Season One).

All in all, another effectively atmospheric episode, fleshing out Coldstone.


FAVORITE LINES.

ELISA: I hope you handle that vacuum cleaner better than a squad car.

MATT: How would you know? You never let me drive.


"DESDEMONA" (speaking from Coldstone's mouth): Where am I? Goliath? My leader?

GOLIATH: Do you not recognize me, brother?

"DESDEMONA": Brother? Can you not see I'm your - my voice. It's different. And what is this place? It is not the castle.

GOLIATH: I told you, brother. This is our home.

"DESDEMONA": Why do you keep calling me -

{She sees her reflection in the mirror, discovering that she's in Coldstone's body, and screams in horror.}


GOLIATH: It's all right. I trust you brother.

"IAGO" (just before opening fire on him): Do you? Pity.


BROOKLYN: How are we supposed to find them?

BROADWAY: Three guesses.


XANATOS PROGRAM: Welcome. Surely you didn't expect to explore Coldstone's mind without my permission?


CANATOS PROGRAM: My primary directive was to enslave Coldstone to Xanatos's will, but the computer virus has stopped me. As you can see, it's slowly devouring everything.

{The virus tentacles break through the castle floor near Goliath, knocking him off his feet.}

XANATOS PROGRAM: Careful. You may be next.


MATT: We're right on top of it. Now we'll see what this creature looks like up close.

ELISA: Looks like a rat to me.


GOLIATH: Someday I trust you will find your way back, my brother, my sister. And when you do, I want you to be among friends.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 7:25:56 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Winter Special artwork teaser!

https://x.com/NateCosby/status/1859275625841741851

Thanks to the Voices from the Eyrie account for bringing it to my attention :--)
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 6:41:13 pm EST from 72.216.220.229

We definitely talked about all this in our "Metamorphosis" podcast. And like I've said, it's important to not forget who and what Xanatos is. This was him at his worst and I've not seen him ever display any remorse or regret. Yes, since the birth of his son, and as we saw in "Miracle Child", there are some lines that he now won't cross. Emphasis on 'now'.

Despite Goliath's current wealth, the gargoyles are still largely dependent on their current landlord. Yes, Elisa declared war on Xanatos... but Xanatos effectively won the war by taking the clan back into the castle. That's not the only reason why he did it, but it was a benefit.

But still, this is why all the discourse over "Xanatos turning good" drives me nuts. Aside from the fact that most of it is based on TGC, even the aspects that aren't just taken for granted that while he's genuinely grateful to Goliath for helping to save his son - most of it is based on just how charming and likeable Xanatos is. He can make long time hardcore fans like us want to trust him (and some forget what he is). And that's, ultimately, what makes him so dangerous.

Honestly, I think much of what's happening with the Manhattan Clan and the Family Xanatos isn't for David and Fox's sake... but for Alex's sake. And not just because of the bond Lex has with the child. Renard's last wishes to Goliath were to be a good influence on Alexander and teach him integrity (and he sure isn't going to get that from his parents). Will those last wishes and the needs of others ever come into conflict? Well, that remains to be seen.

I've seen some discourse, as of late, that Xanatos is an "uncomfortable reminder that the wealthy and powerful can get away with anything and do whatever they want". And some have made that a criticism of the series. I guess, if one is looking for purely escapist entertainment then "Gargoyles" might not be what they're looking for. The best art reflects life. And maybe, just maybe it's important to see this. It's good storytelling. Sometimes good storytelling is very uncomfortable... and no, it's not because Greg Weisman loves Xanatos too much to punish him (that was one of the most asinine accusations I've ever seen).

Will Xanatos ever face real justice? Maybe. Probably not. But this is a series that opened with genocide. Life is not fair in reality. Why should it be fair in fiction? Well, again, if you're just looking for escapism.

Demona and Xanatos are my two favorite characters in the series. But make no mistake, I would despise them if I lived in the same reality that they do.
Greg Bishansky
"Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day."
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 1:36:07 pm EST from 67.189.200.184

CRAIG AND MATTHEW - Yes, some good comments on Xanatos's actions in this one; it's definitely one of his most chilling moments. (And I certainly agree about "Louse", especially given a) here a couple of the new Mutates are children and b) another of the new Mutates hangs herself.)

And Elisa's angry confrontation of Xanatos and his response are a major moment in this episode. Up to this point, she's been regarding him as simply a corrupt guy who's a problem for her new friends; now it's become a lot more personal.

(It struck me at one point that the obvious risk Xanatos was taking mutating Derek was that it'd be harder to keep his fate from being discovered than the other Mutates. Maggie was not only living out on the streets, but was originally from Ohio, meaning that her family was a safe distance away; we can assume that Fang and Claw were also homeless in their pre-Mutate days, so their fates would go unnoticed. But not only does Derek have family living in Manhattan who *would* notice his disappearance, but one of them is a sister who's already extremely suspicious about Xanatos. I asked Greg Weisman about it and he explained that Xanatos actually saw Elisa as an incentive to turning Derek into a Mutate; she'd think twice about targeting him if her brother was one of his Mutate henchmen. Which definitely matches Xanatos's style - though judging from the above-mentioned look on his face, he might have been wondering if he'd underestimated her response to that act.)

And, yes, the Argonath is a great moment in "The Lord of the Rings". (I recall that the movie version, which you brought up, showed a bird's nest built into one of the kings' eyes). Other "ancient ruins" moments I recall (and which I was thinking of when I made that post last evening) were Moria (which would certainly match the Archmage's cave as a mysterious underground setting) and the Elvish ruins in Eregion whom Legolas can hear lamenting the passing of the Elves that built them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 8:28:40 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Todd> Tolkien was great at depicting the ruins of a bygone time and one of the things I think the movies did the best was the scene at the Argonath.

As Frodo was borne towards them the great pillars rose like towers to meet him. Giants they seemed to him, vast grey figures silent but threatening. Then he saw that they were indeed shaped and fashioned: the craft and power of old had wrought upon them, and still they preserved through the suns and rains of forgotten years the mighty likenesses in which they had been hewn. Upon great pedestals founded in the deep waters stood two great kings of stone: still with blurred eyes and crannied brows they frowned upon the North. The left hand of each was raised palm outwards in gesture of warning; in each right hand there was an axe; upon each head there was a crumbling helm and crown. Great power and majesty they still wore, the silent wardens of a long-vanished kingdom.

Onto "Metamorphosis" and a more serious note. It's funny to note that for such a hammy and over-the-top character, Sevarius is almost always involved in the darkest of episodes. Seeing this as a kid haunted me; Derek's failure to return to normal is heartbreaking and by the end of it he's even lost the chance to hide his transformation from his sister. The twist at the end with Xanatos not only being fully aware of Sevarius' experiments but letting him continue on shows that despite his complexities he is still very much a villain. I actually like that serious look he has after Elisa declares war on him, he has no problem admitting that he's underestimated Goliath and the clan, but he's also underestimated her too and I can imagine that he's taking caution into consideration for any future encounters with her.

A couple of final notes: Frank Welker isn't credited here but I can't imagine someone else doing the truly inhuman noises when Maggie breaks out. This and the sounds the Werefox make are truly among the most disturbing audio work in the series. And finally, this episode does hit differently since I started my monthly poem series, homeless abuse is very much a real thing and as Craig put it, Xanatos and Sevarius have crossed over from comic book villainy into proper villainy and it makes it all the more disturbing. I once described season 3 of Young Justice as Greg being able to tell the kinds of stories he's wanted to without any kid gloves on, and that leads to some truly horrific acts like what happens to the Von Furths. We'd get something similar in "Louse" where we get reminded exactly what kind of monster Anton Sevarius is when there isn't Disney standards and practices getting in the way.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 1:43:56 am EST from 135.180.3.149

Todd Jensen> "(I do find myself likening this to the scene in the Season Two finale of "Amphibia" where Marcy gets run through - of course, she also survives, but again, it's not something you expect in a Disney series.)"

They both also have a gargoyle (One way or another) and Keith David.

And we have Jonathan Frakes briefly voicing Fang. Can't beat Claw'd VA.:-)
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Nov 20, 2024 12:05:47 am EST from 68.119.3.1

I find Xanatos to be one of the most compelling characters on the show, and I can't help but find him charming; but on my most recent rewatch of "Metamorphosis," I felt that he becomes almost irredeemable after this episode. Abducting homeless people, injecting chemicals into their bodies against their will that irrevocably change them... A lot of his other schemes function on a "comic book" level that make his evil easy to enjoy given how removed it is from our reality. This one just feels...genuinely disturbing.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Nov 19, 2024 11:21:41 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

MATTHEW - Your post reminded me of how, in "The Lord of the Rings", set in a long-ago mythical age, we keep getting glimpses of even more distant ages through that world's own ancient ruins.

I rewatched "Metamorphosis" today. This episode, while having a good deal of action, focuses more on the drama this time - and it's certainly dark. I remember a post here, many years ago, from someone remembering how, the first time they saw this one, they were wondering more and more as the episode progressed how Derek was going to get changed back, with time running out - and then realized that he wasn't going to get a cure, that he was going to be a Mutate permanently.

I recall feeling some surprise about that, but what struck me more about this episode, after my first-time viewing, was its testament to Xanatos's ability to take people in. I knew that he was the main antagonist in the series (or one of them, Demona being the other), that he'd deceived the gargoyles before, and so on - but I found myself actually believing him when he said that he didn't want this to happen to Derek and that he was working hard for a cure for him. When he refused to cage Derek, saying "He's a man, not an animal", I mentally applauded him. And then, of course, we got the revelation that he really had planned this to happen to Derek all along, and I realized that I'd been duped.

I also remember being almost stunned into disbelief when Sevarius was seemingly killed. I knew that "Gargoyles" was not your typical Disney series - anything but - yet I still felt staggered that they'd actually have something like this happen. And then it turned out at the end, of course, that Sevarius was faking it as part of the plan. (I do find myself likening this to the scene in the Season Two finale of "Amphibia" where Marcy gets run through - of course, she also survives, but again, it's not something you expect in a Disney series.)

And the ending is very dramatic, with Elisa finding out about it and being horrified, the moment where she's furiously confronting Xanatos over what he'd done to her brother - then breaking down in tears back at the clock tower, while the gargoyles watch her in a troubled silence (except for Brooklyn, who's gazing out the window in a brooding manner, and Lexington, who's trying to comfort him). Not to mention the look of horror earlier from Derek/Talon after he's inadvertently delivered his sister an electric shock and sees her gazing up in terror at him. Even with it turning out that Sevarius is alive after all, it's still definitely a far cry from regular Disney.

On a lighter note, we get introduced to Sevarius, who will come across throughout as hamming it up as a mad scientist, in a hilarious fashion.

Returning to the more solemn tone, also get the first of Brooklyn's crushes; the guy will have a history of always crushing on the wrong woman, and feeling increasingly devastated about it. (Though at least we know he finds a soulmate at last, in the form of Katana. And maybe someday we'll get the story of how they met.)

The opening scene with Maggie out on the streets, with a couple of other homeless people, reminded me of Matthew's poem-cycle this time around.

We get a good dramatic scene near the start of the gargoyles awakening, a guy standing below staring up and wondering where those falling rocks came from, and some pigeons flying off (presumably wanting to get far away from Bronx).

All in all, a really memorable episode.

FAVORITE QUOTES.

SEVARIUS (to Xanatos): Don't you have some junk bonds to sell?


BROOKLYN: She doesn't want our help. She doesn't want me.


ELISA: Now it's war, Xanatos. You're going down for this. I promise you, no matter what it takes.


SEVARIUS: I was particularly proud of my death-scene.

XANATOS: Frankly, Sevarius, I thought you overplayed the part.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 19, 2024 7:25:47 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

I was watching a video essay on how ruins and crumbling monuments to forgotten civilizations can offer different forms of world building and it got me thinking. We were discussing the ruins shown in the flashbacks in "Long Way to Morning" a little while ago and there's still a huge amount we don't know about them or the Megalith Dance. Maye we'll get more answers on that in the future but there's something compelling about our heroes, who come from an almost legendary time themselves, puzzling on the meaning of structures from a long-forgotten age and people.

The essay can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHSEFMYjbnE
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Nov 19, 2024 5:45:33 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

I was watching the first part of a new documentary on Leonardo da Vinci on PBS last night, and the narrator's voice sounded familiar. I checked when it reached the end credits - and, yes, it was Keith David. Which reminded me of that picture of Goliath modelled on the Vitruvian Man in the Season Two finale of "Amphibia" (and they included the Vitruvian Man, by the way, in Part One).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 19, 2024 7:28:07 am EST from 68.99.93.213

So, in the Radio Play continuity, I wonder if Broadway and Batman ever talk about their mutual views on guns.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 11:57:04 pm EST from 68.119.3.1

CRAIG AND MATTHEW - Good comments and analyses on "Leader of the Pack". And I forgot to mention Coyote's distortion ray, but I always thought that one of the creepiest moments of the episode.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 8:45:08 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

[SPOILER] In regards to Demona commanding the humans to drown themselves like rats theory, I can imagine that being an endgame or last ditch plan from her, especially if the other theory about the others being able to command humans because her spell was directed towards obeying gargoyle commands rather than just her. I could see it as a, "You can stop me or you can try to protect these worthless humans before they destroy themselves" ultimatum. [/SPOILER]

"Leader of the Pack" moves the Pack and their own agenda forward, that is they now know who it was that set them on the path against the gargoyles and they also know that even with all their skills, armaments, and the backing of the Coyote bot, they're still no match for the clan. Which is why they'll go through their upgrade later. It also progresses the paths of Fox and Xanatos. The former is willing to ditch her old life and her mercenary buddies for the sweet life with Xanatos, and become a major player in her own right. And it shows that Xanatos truly isn't the petty and vindictive kind of villain and he's more than willing to go out of his way for someone he cares about, or at this stage, is attracted to.

One note I really liked was this acts as a mini-conclusion to the Trio's Berserk Button arcs as they've come to terms with them in their separate ways. Broadway deals with it the healthiest in that he simply destroys any villain's weapon he gets his hands on. Brooklyn admits that his judgment gets clouded when Demona gets involved and urges Lex to keep a cool head. And Lexington struggles with his anger the whole time before realizing where to keep his priorities. He'll still have some ways to go, but character progression doesn't all occur in one episode.

Todd> That bit about Young Justice and Mr. Twister is pretty amusing considering that the Team first thought he was the android Red Tornado but was in fact a piece of armor piloted by an android that's disguised as a human. And said human is taking orders from another android disguised as a human. Quite the, "Imma dude playin' a dude, disguised as another dude!"
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 8:35:55 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

Todd > Like you, I've always been less into the more purely action-driven episodes, but I have always found a lot to like about "Leader." Some really good Michael Reaves dialogue (the hilarious Sartre/Nietzsche exchange, which is way over most kids' heads for several reasons, including mine when I initially saw it). And some really terrific Walt Disney Japan animation (the trippy and rather terrifying sequence of Coyote distorting the Rikers guard's perception; a lot of the lighting during the fight on the burning freighter). And I recall being truly shocked the first time I saw Bronx biting Xanatos's face! Even as a kid, I quickly realized that something must be up, because I understood that you couldn't show something that gruesome in a kids' cartoon...but the pure visceral moment that it happened, before my brain kicked in, really made me jump.

As to Lex building Bronx mechanical wings...I believe that the Kenner Bronx figure did indeed come with some sort of wing pack or something.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 8:00:32 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

MORRAND - [SPOILER] Demona's long shown herself to be more interested in wiping out humanity than in ruling over it. That was her goal throughout - in "City of Stone" (where she was turning them to stone and smashing them) and "Hunter's Moon" (where her plan was to produce a plague that would wipe out every human on the planet). There's no evidence that she's changed her mind on that since "Hunter's Moon". (Yes, she hasn't started wiping them out already, but I suspect that it's a case of "she wants to play with the mice before killing them" - admittedly, a classic villain mistake, but then Demona's good at that sort of thing.) [/SPOILER]

I watched "Leader of the Pack" today, the opening episode of Season Two. With Season Two, we see some changes to the opening sequence, particularly Goliath's voice-over narration. I'm torn on which version works better; the wordless Season One version has an effective atmospheric tone, but Goliath's narration in Season Two is impressive as well (especially thanks to Keith David's performance).

"Leader of the Pack" isn't one of the stronger episodes of the series; it feels (like a lot of the Pack episodes) of more fighting than drama. I'll admit that if it was the first episode of "Gargoyles" I'd seen, I wouldn't have been as drawn to the series as I was by starting with "Awakening". But it has its moments - particularly the fun of making it look as if Xanatos is behaving like a regular revenge-driven cartoon villain before we find out that it's all a ruse in a far more true-to-form fashion for him. We get some drama about Lexington's continued grudge against the Pack (I particularly liked the part where Brooklyn, as he's reasoning with Lex, points out that he responds the same way towards Demona. He seems to understand that it's a problem whenever she's not around.) And the fight scenes themselves have some impressive moments (I particularly like the part where Hudson's standing there, surrounded by Jackal, Hyena, and Dingo, and they're all eyeing each other in silence before the Pack members charge).

This is the introduction of Coyote as a new Pack-member. "Coyote" indeed feels apt for him; not only does it match the theme-naming for the rest of the Pack, but he's named after a major trickster of myth and legend as well, which matches his masquerading as Xanatos (a major trickster himself - and Coyote's role is all part of a misdirection scheme). With the big surprise being when he turns out to be a robot rather than Xanatos - almost the reverse of the surprise in "The Edge" where the new red Steel Clan robot turned out to be Xanatos. (And many years later, Greg Weisman would combine both surprises in an early episode of "Young Justice" where he had the seemingly robotic adversary: a) turn out to be a human pilot in a high-tech suit o armor and b) the human pilot turned out, moments later, to be a robot designed to look like a human.)

We get some development for Fox and the full revelation of her relationship with Xanatos. We also find out that, while she and Goliath are very different, they do have one thing in common - a fondness for reading major writers. (I find Fox's remark on Kafka all the more amusing given what the title of the very next episode was.)

The Pack comment that the difficulty of finding the gargoyles is "they're not exactly in the Yellow Pages". Which might be one of the more dated-parts of the series; is the Yellow Pages still around, or has it been rendered obsolete by, say, looking up telephone numbers online?

This is the first time the Pack encounter Bronx, and I found myself wondering this time what that must have been like for them, encountering some "gargoyle dog" (we know that the technical term is "gargoyle beast", but I doubt the Pack would know that). It reminded me of my speculation that during the off-stage fight with the Pack just after "Clan-Building" they were, after their first glimpse of Fu-Dog, wondering when the gargoyles got a pet lion.

And Owen gets a couple of delightful scenes, especially when he's phoning up Goliath, Hudson, and Broadway and telling them about the Pack's current activities as if he's inviting them to a big social event.

Plus the scene at the end where the gargoyles are abandoning the doomed ship, with Bronx, who doesn't have wings (maybe Lexington should try constructing some for him), retreating to the part that's last to sink and starts howling mournfully before he's rescued.

So it makes a lively start - but with fortunately more truly "Gargoyles-ish" episodes to follow.

FAVORITE LINES.

HYENA: Why do you read that stuff?

FOX (reading a book by Jean-Paul Sartre): Because Nietszche's butch, and Kafka reminds me of your friends over there.


HYENA (to Coyote): Well, I like a man who brings me weapons.


WOLF (to Coyote): Congratulations. You just set the record for the shortest term in office.


BROOKLYN: Come on, Bronx. No sense staying up here where it's safe.


BROOKLYN (as the Pack's airship rises from the floor and they emerge from it): Now they know how to make an entrance.


JACKAL (after Brooklyn's taken Hyena down): That's no way to treat a lady.

BROOKLYN: That was no lady.


LEXINGTON: We almost had 'em!

BROOKLYN: Oh, yeah, they were begging for mercy. How come whenever you and I take Bronx out we wind up like this?


DINGO: He's a robot!

HYENA: A robot? Even better!


FOX: What about your revenge?

XANATOS: Revenge, as they say, is a sucker's game. Robots are nothing, Fox, my dear. I can build a dozen more like it. True love is so much harder to come by.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 7:22:47 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Todd: (from last week) Well, that was a bit of a smart-aleck suggestion on my part rather than a real prediction. That set of events might take more than one issue to resolve at this point, although...[SPOILER] there's no chance at all we're going to have Coldstone visiting Wyvern on the last page of "Quest" #5 to return the shaft of the lance, now, is there? [/SPOILER] This one's a bit less smart-alecky, maybe, but not much less, although if Fedora Matthew's suggestion that [SPOILER] the Illuminati will get their turn in the next series is right, it might not be such a bad way to lead into it. [/SPOILER] All pure speculation, of course.

Also, answering Craig's point, [SPOILER] after all there is no reason Wyvern couldn't pass through downtown Manhattan on the way up to the scene of the crime. United Airlines does it on their way to south Queens dozens of times a day. Whether a dragon would be more acceptable uptown or not, I leave to people with more precise local geographic rivalries. ;) [/SPOILER]

From this week: [SPOILER] Maybe she does plan to send them into the rivers, but somehow I kind of suspect she would have done that by now. She's not exactly the restrained type and it would be a terrific distraction for our heroes. I can, however, see her being sharp enough to see enslaving the humans, not just wiping them out, to be a more potent bait for Coldstone. For all I know, maybe sending them into the rivers will turn out to be her plan "B". [/SPOILER]

Antiyonder: (also from last week) The reference you posted to "Ask Greg" suggests that Coldstone wound up in the Tibetian part of the Himalayas, not the Nepalese part that I based my comment on. It's not like the Himalayas are a precise point, I guess, and I don't suppose it matters to my point, which is more that [SPOILER] we've seen Coldstone dissemble before, [/SPOILER] but it's always best to get these things right.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 6:28:48 pm EST from 108.69.72.60

So going to list various canon in training info that I recall being decanonized so far:

1. New Olympians originally being another spinoff around the then present 1996 (Mayve) until we saw a young Terry in the Halloween Double Date story.

2. Brooklyn returning to 1997 5 minutes after changed to 40 seconds after disappearing, plus his daughter went from being hatched to being Egwardo.XD

3. The Phoenix guiding him to a destination than Brooklyn falling into a portal trying to get a hold of the Phoenix Gate.

4. Zafiro being a likely candidate to retrieve the Amulet in Manhattan, though I think even before hand Greg mentioned Jade and Turquesa being the ones to do so. Also rethinking the two being active during daylight on Avalon.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 6:08:55 pm EST from 68.119.3.1

CRAIG - [SPOILER] Yes, good point on that. I need to study up a bit more on Manhattan geography.

I've been suspecting, incidentally, based on my theory that Demona's ultimate goal in mentally enslaving humanity is to get them to all wipe themselves out for her without resistance, that one of Demona's methods for wiping out the Manhattan population would be to draw inspiration from the flute's history and have them all march into the Hudson and East rivers for a "drowned rats"-type fate. [/SPOILER]

Oh, and happy birthday to Mickey Mouse, who is the foundation stone of Disney, so that "Gargoyles" ultimately owes something to him.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 8:25:36 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Second! [SPOILER] I kinda doubt we'll see Coldstone join the Redemption Squad. I just don't get the feeling that that is his fate. I think his death or his banishment or him shutting himself down (which could be a form of death or banishment depending on how it is handled) are all more likely. I think we need to be careful to not assume every bad guy (or good guy who screws up) is destined for the Squad. [/SPOILER]
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 8:24:14 am EST from 204.184.178.1

First thing I'd like to bring up is a comment from VickyUK from a couple days ago.

[SPOILER] That being the possibility of Coldstone joining the Redemption Squad. We've had a number of the different major factions make appearances so far as a means of reintroducing them to the comics. With Thailog and Dino being the big players in the first arc and now Demona being the main antagonist here in Quest, I think the Illuminati taking the stage might be the best plan for the third series. And if not the center stage then perhaps as the looming threat while the protagonist viewpoint shifts from the Manhattan Clan to the Squad.

Coldstone could help reintroduce readers to the Squad and that could lead to some interesting dynamics depending on how repentant he is or whether he's there by choice. If he's still harboring some serious distrust towards humans, then having to work alongside Robyn and Dingo could bring some engaging conflict. If he really wants to work towards repentance for the betrayal to his clan, then he could bond alongside Yama and his own search for redemption.

Can't imagine he'd get alongside Fang, but then again, who does? [/SPOILER]
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Nov 18, 2024 6:11:54 am EST from 135.180.3.149