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Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending January 19, 2025

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MATTHEW - [That and Anansi's tricks looked like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.]

Trust tricksters to echo each other.

Todd Jensen

Thanks Todd. Though I should point out Mmoboro simply means "hornets" in the Akan language.

I actually first heard of Anansi through an episode of Static Shock back in the day, as it was used as an alias for a superhero in Ghana. Rather appropriate for Static to team with a hero based off the mythical spider considering Static was conceived by Dwayne McDuffie as a Spider-Man style hero. Another episode even introduced a trio of villains themed after the hornets, the python, and the leopard from Anansi's tale.

Years later while studying world mythology in college I came across the tale and noticed how much those episodes drew from Anansi's stories. That and Anansi's tricks looked like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

MATTHEW - Thanks for sharing the background information on Anansi. The part of the story that most stood out to me was the hornets having a single name, even though it was a group; seems like a definite case of a pre-technology hive-mind.

I do think there seems to be a natural tendency to view tricksters as villainous, even if they weren't done that way in the original story, much like death-gods. (I recall Greg Weisman's remark in his ramble on "Her Brother's Keeper" about tricksters getting confused with the Devil.) There's a parallel case coming up, that I'll get to when we reach "The New Olympians".

Todd Jensen

Craig> Good point on Elisa and Diane's relationship, we haven't seen them interact as much compared to Elisa with her father. I generally assumed that she was just closer to Peter considering her job.
Also good point on the show shifting animation style to better reflect the culture it's highlighting. It can be pretty expensive changing animation styles even for four minutes. But they justified it pretty well with the story of the Panther Queen.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

"Mark of the Panther" is an episode that I admire for the insight it provides into Elisa and Diane's relationship (and for the very good work from Salli Richardson and the late great Nichelle Nichols), as well as for the chutzpah it took to put the show on pause for nearly four minutes to tell a leisurely fable in an entirely different style of animation (and background score as well). But in retrospect, how cool would it have been if they'd engaged with an actual myth from African tradition and adapted THAT in this style instead of just making something up? It's tough to believe that there wasn't something they could have worked with, given the extremely rich tradition of Anansi stories. The episode is somewhat similar to "Walkabout" in terms of its core dichotomy...it's an artistically satisfying episode on many levels, especially in the way it adds depth to existing characters (Elisa and Diane here, just as "Walkabout" did for Dingo and Fox), but in terms of its relationship to the cultural source material...well, it's not nearly as off-base as "Walkabout," so there's that. The Anansi of the episode is recognizable as the trickster of the myths, but is harsher-edged and meaner-spirited, and as Matthew says, that can certainly be perceived as problematic given that Anansi is seen as an inspirational figure by many...a trickster who uses his wiles to punch up (as in the tale Matthew related), not down (as the episode's version does). There are certainly villainous depictions of Anansi in myths as well, but even those usually portray him as more of an absurd comedic figure than a serious threat.

The other problematic element of the episode is the Fara Maku - Tea Gora relationship. Fara turning Tea into a different species against her will just because he refuses to let her move away from him is....well, yikes. He's basically entering "Xanatos in 'Metamorphosis'" levels of evil here, but given the added romantic/sexual element, the whole thing takes on an even darker tone encompassing themes of consent, stalking, and bodily violation. In a way, I'm impressed that they "went there" in a Disney Afternoon show, as this is pretty dark stuff (you'd expect to see this kind of psychological material moreso on B:TAS). But on the other hand, the extremely pat ending where the two make up lets this material down SO badly, that I sort of wish they just hadn't addressed it at all. Overall, an ambitious and frustrating episode.

Craig

Whoops, put Diana when I meant to write Diane.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

"Mark of the Panther" is another episode that doesn't rank high on the best lists and honestly, it's not hard to see why. It asks you to get invested in the relationship drama of Fara Maku and Tea (neither one comes off as heroic in their episode). The episode's themes can be considered a little too derivative of Marvel's Black Panther, especially since leopards without the panther coloration are still widely admired across Africa. And then there's Anansi, another trickster who got a more villainous portrayal here.

Anansi is an important icon not just in West Africa where his tales originated, but in the Caribbean too where slaves kept part of their culture alive by telling the stories of how a lowly spider became so respected by using his wits and tricks. The most famous one was how he proved himself worthy of having tales told about him to the great Sky Father. First he coaxed a swarm of hornets Mmoboro into a jar. Then he tricked the python Onini by convincing him that he wanted to measure his length in comparison to a branch and tied him to it. And finally he captured the leopard Osebo by tricking him into a pit. I think that maybe having the two be related to Osebo or even decedents of his could therefore explain their feud with Anansi.

The episode delves into West African culture and folklore and gets some things right (Diana playing the role of storyteller is an important one) but others may not be so forgiving. But considering the time, it was an admirable effort.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

Cool discussion.
Land Clearing - [https://www dot seattlelandclearing dot com]

Sorry for the double post, but I rewatched "Mark of the Panther" today.

This time around, Diane Maza reminded me a bit of Luz's mother Camille from "The Owl House"; both mothers discover that their daughters have secretly gotten involved in the doings of strange "mythical" beings (the gargoyles in Elisa's case, the denizens of the Boiling Isles in Luz's), are seriously taken aback - and understandably concerned over their daughters keeping the information from them, leading to some mother-daughter drama, but come to accept those same "mythicals". Diane's helping Goliath resolve his conflict with Angela was a particularly effective moment.

When Goliath was telling Angela at the start that she has several rookery parents, not just him, I realized one somber element of that: most of Angela's rookery fathers and mothers would have been casualties of the Wyvern Massacre, something that hadn't struck me before.

I noticed, when I rewatched "Gargoyles" for its 25th anniversary in 2019, the role of hunting in the series and how human hostility towards gargoyles was often labeled as such. For a change, we have regular hunting appear in this episode (panther-poaching), much like how "M. I. A." presented regular human racism rather than its fantastic counterpart of humans persecuting gargoyles.

Diane Maza's tale of the Panther Queen is, of course, one of the most memorable parts of the episode. (Complete with a different animation style that fits the story; I've read remarks about how viewers tuning in late must have initially wondered if "Gargoyles" had been replaced by something else.) By coincidence, today I also watched the second lecture in a "Great Courses" series on Homer's Iliad, which focused on the origins of Homer's poetry in oral tradition and reciting poetry rather than reading and writing them; it struck me that Diana was clearly participating in oral storytelling here as well.

Goliath offers a counterpart to the famous "All things are true" line, when he says "Most legends contain a seed of truth"; it hasn't gained as much publicity as "All things are true", but still makes a good description of the role of legends in "Gargoyles". (I knew about Anansi, of course, before I saw this episode of "Gargoyles", but I'm not enough of an expert on him to say how accurate his depiction was.)

And I still can't help thinking that Elisa's addressing Anansi as "spider-man" stands out more after Greg Weisman's work on "The Spectacular Spider-Man".

FAVORITE LINES.

POACHER: Say "bye-bye"!

GOLIATH (knocking him out): Bye-bye.


DIANE MAZA: The Spider Gates of Kara Digi. I can't believe they're real. Then again, reality's gotten awfully strange lately.


DIANE MAZA (to Goliath): I don't need looking after.

{She walks off in a very dignified fashion.}

GOLIATH: Of course not.


FARA MAKU: Your life was here with me. I loved you! I couldn't let you go.

DIANE MAZA: That's not love, Fara. That's selfishness.

Todd Jensen

CRAIG - Thanks for providing more information about the Dreaming. And thank you, both you and Matthew, for your comments.
Todd Jensen

I'm no expert on the subject and as Craig put it there's as many variations on the tale as their are tribes and people to tell it. One of the more common versions involves the earliest of eras before day and night were properly divided when the great progenitors of all living beings walked the earth.

From the earliest appearance, Dingo had a bit more depth than several of the members of the Pack. While Wolf favored brute force and Jackal and Hyena were the "play with their food" kind of killers, Dingo favored more pragmatic means. That kind of pragmaticism came into play as he was one of the few to avoid arrest early on and once the Pack was reduced to robbery was the only one to keep his head clear on the objective. After the events of "Upgrade" it became increasingly clear that he was the only one with any clear scruples much less humanity, so it makes sense that he'd cut them loose and try anew. One thing I'd like to point out is Dingo's desire to change being based around the fact that he was once seen as a hero while he was on TV, the very thing he felt was making him soft. It brings to mind the the Thunderbolts from Marvel, a group of supervillains disguising themselves as heroes, only for several of them to switch to the side of good after they enjoyed playing hero (many of them are still heroes). Interestingly enough, this episode predates the Thunderbolts by about a year.

Matrix is an interesting character especially these days as A.I.s have become an everyday thing here. Todd brought up the decision to not make it a malevolent entity which would've been the obvious choice in an episode that features the Grey Goo Scenario. But what's really interesting is that rather than going through the traditional change the computer from good to evil, Matrix instead alters its perspective of its programming rather than defy it. A walkabout generally means the change from one stage of life to another (again, like the Dreamtime there's different meanings), which is what happens here. A former mercenary and a terrifying terraforming A.I. taking their first steps into a new stage of life.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

I've read a few books on Australian Aboriginal culture, but I'm certainly a novice on the subject, so take everything I say with that in mind. I find the so-called "Dreamtime" an absolutely fascinating and beautiful concept, but also a difficult one to fully wrap my head around, partly because it is quite foreign to modern western thinking and belief systems. Making it even more difficult to comprehend is the fact that there of course isn't a monolithic Aboriginal culture. Just like the indigenous peoples of the Americas, there are countless individual Australian Aborigine cultures with their own belief systems and oral traditions, which have some overlap but also many differences. Any attempt to discuss the "Dreamtime" as a single unified belief system is doomed from the start to be a vast oversimplification. Even the term "Dreamtime" itself is a corrupt, probably inaccurate attempt by early anthropologists to translate a word from the Arrernte tribe's vocabulary, which probably doesn't have any literal equivalent in English. Each tribal culture has its own distinct word for the concept. Most Aboriginal scholars today have accepted the pop culture terms "Dreamtime" and "Dreaming" when discussing the concept in English, just for the sake of simplicity, but I believe the term "Dreaming" is generally preferred over "Dreamtime." Part of the reason for this is that, while the Dreaming does refer to the creation of the land as Todd has said, Aboriginal peoples don't view the Dreaming as existing within time the way we'd think of it (in fact, many Aboriginal cultures don't even have a word for "time"). The Dreaming is seen as eternally existing outside time, and likewise, each one of us has always existed within the Dreaming, still does (even simultaneously to the period when we're here on Earth), and always will, and the same is true of our ancestors. So, in a way, the creation of the world is still ongoing and happening right now in the Dreaming. Each people's conception of the Dreaming is indelibly tied to the land where they live, as their Dreaming traditions, stories, songs, and dances tell the story not only of how that land was created by the great spirits and ancestors, but also of how those living should lead a healthy, moral, and fulfilling life in harmony with that land and with other people. In that sense, the Gargoyles depiction doesn't 100% miss the mark QUITE as badly as Todd indicates, since the Dreaming is indeed theoretically a spiritual dimension that can be entered or communicated with (at least in some cultures) through meditation, dances and rituals. But of course the Gargoyles depiction (which visually is sort of "Salvador Dalí meets Jack Kirby's Black Galaxy from 'Thor') bears little to no resemblance to anything in actual tradition. The idea in the episode that one could reshape the Dreaming to one's own whims seems to me to go entirely against what the Dreaming represents. My understanding is that the Dreaming is meant to teach us to accept our place in the continuity of life, and to live in symbiosis with all things, not to aggressively assert our own dominance over our surroundings! And of course the concept of entering the Dreaming to communicate with an Artificial Intelligence is...a nontraditional interpretation, shall we say.

I do view this episode as prescient in its depiction of the Matrix. I agree with Todd that it's one of the more effective depictions of A.I. I've seen in fiction, since it's not malevolent, but rather just takes its programming way too literally. I think the real danger of A.I. is not in machines taking over, but in how it's used by humans, and how we react to it and interact with it. It's a tool like any other, and a particularly dangerous one if employed to nefarious or deceitful ends. There's also a great risk of dehumanization, particularly in areas of art and culture. But if A.I. WERE to ever attempt to take over the world, I think its "rationale" would look much more like the Gargoyles Matrix than, say, Skynet.

Craig

MATTHEW - I've seen similar cases of echoes between legends. Another, involving the Arthurian cycle, is a Norse myth about Odin entering a king's feasting-hall and thrusting a mighty sword in one of the pillars, then announcing that whoever can pull the sword out may keep it as his gift. The king and all the warriors present try to pull the sword out, but only the king's youngest son, Sigmund, can do so; he bears it thereafter until his dying day. The story's a clear parallel to the Sword in the Stone.

I've sometimes thought of writing a story about a banshee commenting glumly about how she and her kind get depicted so negatively in pop culture, protesting "They've got us all wrong. People don't die because we keen. We keen because we know they're going to die, and are mourning them in advance."

Rewatched "Walkabout" today. Two things about this episode stand out to me. The first is the depiction of Matrix. I have some difficulties with the notion of villainous robots and AI, because I have a hard time imagining robots or AI developing the emotions needed to engage in villainy, such as greed, hatred, fear, etc. But Matrix comes across as more misunderstanding the situation than genuinely malevolent; it was designed to bring order to the landscape, and believes that it's simply fulfilling its instructions without comprehending what the results would be for the Earth and all life upon it (though I'm a bit surprised about Xanatos and Fox's purpose for it; it sounds more "conventional megalomaniac super-villain" than their normal style). It's significant that the Shaman is speaking about "convinc[ing] it of its error", as if it's misunderstood what it's supposed to do rather than driven by malign intentions. I particularly liked the touch when, after Goliath points out to Matrix what its style of order would mean, Matrix says, "But... we must have order", with the pause just after "But" being significant; it indicates that Goliath is starting to get through to it, but Matrix still has to follow its programming (at least until Dingo offers it an alternate way of fulfilling it).

Which brings me to the other element I liked: Dingo. Until "Upgrade", he'd been just another member of the Pack to me. When that episode aired, however, we saw him refusing to go to the alarming extremes that Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf underwent in getting upgraded, and even being horrified by their changes; it came as no surprise that he'd broken with them by "Grief". In "Upgrade", we see him now wanting to change for the better. It's still an ongoing process, but he's clearly concerned when they find out what Matrix is becoming and wants to help. The part I most liked was at the end where he's talking about his memories of how the Pack used to be regarded as heroes (if on television), rather missed that, and wanted to be a genuine hero this time rather than just playing one on television.

On the "legendary accuracy" subject, "Walkabout" takes a miss here in its description of the Dreamtime as apparently another world. I'm not an expert on the beliefs of the Australian Aborigines, but one thing I do know is that in them, the Dreamtime was actually the period when the world was first created, and when the various animals were taking on their familiar characteristics and identities. Those more knowledgeable than I am on that subject can add to that - please do, if you're reading this.

We get a glimpse of Australian wildlife at the start (the kangaroo that Bronx growls at and a koala), though the rest of the episode is set largely in a seemingly lifeless desert. (I can see the point; it makes it easier to show the threat the Matrix poses without damage to the natural world. No repeat here of the crocodile incident in "Grief".)

I can't help wondering, when Elisa tells Angela that Dingo's "not one of the good guys", whether the "Gargoyles" production team had already decided that the potential spin-off featuring Dingo and Matrix would be named "Bad Guys".

The episode immediately after "The Hound of Ulster", Bronx again gives someone a ride as if he was a horse: Elisa this time.

Another little touch that I liked is the shaman's response to the gargoyles, simply accepting them in a matter-of-fact way (although he's obviously mistaken about them being from the Dreamtime) - and even aware that they'd accompanied Dingo and Elisa and were just out of sight.

We get our introduction to Anastasia Renard (how many of us, when we saw "Outfoxed", expected to actually meet her), and see Fox as visibly pregnant (I suspect that detail must have stood out to a lot of viewers). And Goliath also finds out now what he hadn't in "Outfoxed" but the audience did, about Renard and Fox being father and daughter.

One odd little feature: the shield that Goliath conjures up when facing the Matrix has a sun-design on it, not something you'd expect to see a gargoyle bear. And we get a cameo-of-a-sort for Hudson and the trio in that same battle (which must have been welcomed by everyone in the audience who'd been missing those guys).

FAVORITE LINES.

SHAMAN: Ah, you have returned. Why not bring your other guests into the light?


FOX: Where are my manners? Goliath, Dingo, Detective Maza, meet Anastasia Renard, my mother.


GOLIATH: Come. We have no time to use.

DINGO: Eh, why not? Always did fancy a trip to Disneyland.


GOLIATH: Matrix! You must listen to me! Order is not frozen perfection! It is dynamic, evolving!

MATRIX: We are programmed to create order.

GOLIATH: You are not creating, you are negating! Your peace is that of the grave!

MATRIX: But... we must pursue order.

Todd Jensen

Irish mythology is one that I should study a bit more, I had no idea that the story of Gawain and the Green Knight was so similar to Cu Chullain and Uath. Given the number of similarities to Arthurian legends with other countries like Wales or Scotland, there's bound to be some overlap with with Ireland too.

Banshees have been treated as antagonistic forces or villains in other media for some time, so I don't treat her acting as the villain as a major sticking point the way Raven was. Interestingly enough, Disney has done a pretty accurate version of the Banshee in their film Darby O'Gill and the Little People, including little details like the banshee combing her hair as she wails.

The relationship between Rory/Cu Chullain and Molly/Banshee is a fascinating one especially when you consider this episode, the events of the Gathering and Greg's notes between the two, that deep down she does have feelings for Rory. I figure that while preventing Rory from discovering his true identity was the primary objective and a growing fondness for him came later. Knowing her reluctance to return to Avalon and her comments to Rory about leaving for America, I wonder if she saw this as a way for the both of them to avoid their fates and the inevitable clash. According to the canon-in-training the two are going to meet again, how that will work out with the Gathering going on will be a mystery. One I hope will be explored in future comics.

Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!

CRAIG - Yes, I've seen occasional theories that Gawain was somehow based on Cuchulain (T. H. White even alluded to it in "The Once and Future King"), enough to make it tempting to imagine that in the Gargoyles Universe, Gawain was a pre-Rory reincarnation of Cuchulain.
Todd Jensen

Thanks for all that mythological backstory, Todd. Very interesting stuff. I was especially intrigued by the Green Knight/Gawain parallel.
Craig

Rewatched "The Hound of Ulster" on DVD.

Bronx, of course, is to the fore in this episode, something that doesn't often happen for him (I think it says a lot about the tone of "Gargoyles" that the gargoyles' "mascot" generally doesn't upstage them). In some ways, though, it's really more about Rory Dugan, another "local hero" being called upon to take up the role. He responds well (after the initial shock wears off) to Bronx, one of his most likable features; we get some lovely scenes as they make friends. (I particularly like the touch of Bronx looking sad when Rory, trying to scramble away upon first seeing him, falls off the cliff.)

One thing that struck me this time around was that Molly/the Banshee was taking a similar approach to Raven in "Heritage"; keep the local hero from discovering his role, and you can win without having to fight. Certainly a good stratagem - unless it fails.

This episode gives us the first hint of the Gathering to come, when the Banshee believes that Goliath and the others were sent to Ireland by Oberon to drag her back; it turns into the old case of "I've already made up my mind about you; don't try confusing me with the facts", that Nokkar will later display in "Sentinel" as well. (Though I get the feeling that the Banshee might have also liked tormenting her captives and that the fear that they were Oberon's agents was just the pretext.) Not to mention her statement "Nor will I suffer intruders in my home", although she was the one who brought Goliath, Elisa, and Angela to the tomb (assuming it's her home) to begin with.

I'm not certain if I noticed it in past viewings, but when the Banshee in her Cromm-Cruach form lands on Cuchulain's burial mound (complete with a dolmen on top), she apparently demolishes it. I can't help shuddering at the destruction of another ancient landmark (particularly after the damage to the secret chambers below the Sphinx in the previous episode).

It's not one of the deeper World Tour episodes, and it certainly takes some liberties with Irish mythology (see below), but it's rather a fun episode, especially if you're fond of Bronx.

A LITTLE ABOUT CUCHULAIN, THE BANSHEE, AND THE HOUND OF ULSTER: As has been pointed out by those who know much about Irish myth and legend, the episode makes some major changes. One of the most important ones is treating Cuchulain and the Hound of Ulster as if they were separate entities, with the Hound as apparently a loyal companion. In fact, in the legends about Cuchulain, he was the Hound of Ulster. Cuchulain's original name was Setanta, and he came to the royal court of Ulster as a boy (apparently around seven) to train as a warrior there. One evening, the court of Ulster, including the boys training to be warriors, visited the home of a great smith named Culain who had a very fearsome watchdog. Setanta arrived late, and the watchdog, who'd been released for the night, saw him as an intruder, resulting in a fight in which Setanta slew him. Culain was upset about his dog's death; Setanta offered to serve as a substitute watchdog to guard his home until Culain got a new one. Culain had to turn down the offer, but Setanta was renamed "Cuchulain" or "the Hound of Culain" as a result (though he initially preferred his original name).

Cuchulain had many adventures, of course; one of the more colorful ones dealt with how he and two other warriors at the royal court of Ulster got into a quarrel over which of them was the mightiest warrior. They tried various ways to solve the dispute, which failed; for example, they approached a neighboring ruler, Queen Maeve of Connacht, asking her which of them was the greatest. She told each one separately that he was the mightiest, and, to mark that, gave each one a precious cup, telling him to keep it secret until he returned to Ulster and then reveal it to everyone, announcing Maeve's verdict; I don't think I'll need to tell you how that turned out. At last, a giant named Uath came to Ulster to challenge Cuchulain and the other two warriors to a sort of "beheading game"; he would let each one cut off his head with his axe, if the next evening, they faced a similar blow from him. The first two warriors went first, each cut off Uath's head, only for him to pick it up, still alive, and tell them to remember their appointment; both of them failed to show up the following night. Cuchulain alone, after beheading Uath, returned to submit to a similar blow; when he knelt before Uath, however, the giant deliberately missed, and declared Cuchulain the greatest of the three for keeping his oath. (The story reads like a sort of early version of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight".)

There are no accounts of Cuchulain battling a Banshee, but there is an echo of their interactions in another story about him. An Irish goddess called the Morrigan made advances to Cuchulain once while he was single-handedly facing a raid into Ulster from Queen Maeve (she was after a prize bull in Ulster, a story called the "Tain" or "Cattle Raid" which is one of Cuchulain's biggest stories); Cuchulain told her that he was too busy fighting to have time for her, and she indignantly retorted by shape-shifting into various animals and attacking him, only for him to fend her off each time. Despite this, she seemed to have some feeling for him still, and when he was finally slain in battle years later, appeared in crow-form to (in some versions of the story) lament his death (though other versions make her rejoicing in it). (Cuchulain's undoing and death brought in dogs again, by the way. Cuchulain's enemies found out that he had two major geases laid upon him; he could not eat the flesh of a dog - presumably because of the "dog/hound" part of his name - but also could not refuse any meal that was offered to him. So, when he was on the way to his last battle, three of them offered him dog's meat to eat, which he had to eat, and which weakened him enough to ensure his end.)

I mentioned in my review of "Grief" how death-gods in popular culture are often depicted as more villainous than they were in the original legends, citing Hades in Disney's "Hercules" as an example. Anubis's own portrayal in "Grief", as I also mentioned, was an exception, but the take on the Banshee in this episode followed the pattern; in Irish legend, banshees were simply death-omens. They would lament the upcoming death of a member of the family they were attached to (each banshee was apparently assigned to a different old family), but their wailing did not actually bring about the death.

Cromm-Cruach was originally a fearsome Irish god, so fearsome that it is said that an ancient Irish king and most of his men perished while offering sacrifices to him. Legends about St. Patrick described an idol representing him, and other statues of twelve subordinate gods, standing on the plain of Mag Slecht until St. Patrick came to Ireland and defeated them, causing their idols to sink into the ground. (He might have been the origin for Crom, the god sworn by Robert E. Howard's Conan; Howard took almost all the names for his Conan stories from ancient history and mythology.) The connection to the Banshee and depiction as a sort of giant monstrous insect larva were the episode's invention.

This episode clearly implies that gargoyle beasts were the original - or part-original, at least - of the black dogs of Britain and Ireland. (I remember that early drafts of the episode intended to call the Hound of Ulster/Great Beast a "barguest", which was actually a sort of black dog from English folklore, particularly northern England. Fortunately they changed it, or they'd have given the episode an even more dramatic "liberty with legend".) The black dogs were generally depicted as fearsome and often deadly creatures with fiery eyes (which obviously match the way gargoyle beasts' eyes can glow); they could wreak a lot of harm, but could also serve as protectors at times. (Katharine Briggs in her "Encyclopedia of Fairies" - a very useful reference work which I highly recommend for those who want to know more about fairy legends - records a story from the 18th century about a man who had to take a journey by night. As he passed through a wood on the way to his destination, a "large black dog" joined him and accompanied him, disappearing when he left the woods, but joining him again when he had to pass through it again later that night on the way back. Many years later, they discovered that a couple of robbers had planned to waylay and murder the traveler that night, but seeing the dog, decided it might be wiser and safer to leave him alone. The man telling the story ended it with the remark "Now that is what I call a useful ghostly apparition".)

(Of course, the more unpleasant kind of black dog was the inspiration for the Hound of the Baskervilles, fitting in with Elisa's mention of Sherlock Holmes when Bronx was howling at the start of the episode.)

It's a question as to how much gargoyle beasts helped to give rise to the "black dog" legends, especially since we now know (ever since the Stone of Destiny story) that there are none left in England (and the Loch Ness clan probably doesn't have any, either). Given that Fu-Dog looks more like a lion than a dog, I doubt Brooklyn's Timedancing offers any explanation for it. Perhaps some of the "black dog-sightings" were of members of the Third Race in dog-shape, although we don't know when the London gargoyle beasts (if the London clan ever had any) died out.


FAVORITE LINES.

ELISA (as Bronx howls): How atmospheric. I don't know whether to expect vampires or Sherlock Holmes.

ANGELA: Where do you suppose Avalon's magic has sent us now?

ELISA: Somewhere cold and wet that smells like the bottom of a garbage can?


ELISA: Don't look so smug, Bronx.

GOLIATH: Bronx has a right to feel proud of himself. It's not every day that a land gets one of its old heroes back. And a land with a hero soon find other deeds for him to do.

Todd Jensen

Second!
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."

First. And tonight is the Wolf Moon - the right kind of full moon for a certain Pack member to try challenging the gargoyles (in the same manner as the Hunter's Moon).
Todd Jensen