MATTHEW - Thanks for the link. I haven't listened to the podcast yet (though I'll have to do so), but I noticed that among the other animated series he was discussing on the podcasts was "Ulysses 31", a sci-fi re-imagining of "The Odyssey". I never watched it, but I read up about it and it seemed quite interesting - enough to make me want to watch it, though it's apparently extremely difficult to find nowadays. (One report on its scarcity compared it to "Gargoyles" before it began airing on Disney +.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Feb 15, 2025 8:24:25 am EST from 68.99.93.213

So The Unshaved Mouse (aka Neil Sharpson) has started working on a podcast covering animated shows from the past called That's What I Call Nostalgia. They're latest episode covers Gargoyles.

It can be found here: https://open.spotify.com/show/27bGj1OMn6b3OYDH4sGT8t
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, Feb 14, 2025 5:52:01 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

With "Hunter's Moon" coming up, I thought I'd set down a few overall thoughts on it first before I watch and review it.

When I last rewatched "Gargoyles" from start to finish, for its 25th anniversary, I noted how often human hostility towards gargoyles was described in terms of hunting from the start - something that made the Canmore Hunters seem particularly well-suited to the role as the gargoyles' ultimate adversaries. I even mentioned how they managed to inflict the most damage upon the clan since they awakened in Manhattan, by first destroying their home, and then exposing them to the public and in a way guaranteed to produce a hostile response. It remains perhaps the heaviest blow inflicted upon the Manhattan clan (though Demona kidnapping Egwardo at the end of "Gargoyles Quest" could give it some serious competition for that title). Definitely a mark of how serious as adversaries the Canmore Hunters were.

I also looked over the various motives humans have for hunting animals and how those were reflected in human attacks on gargoyles. We had hunting for sport with the Pack. We had hunting them as "dangerous predators that have to be exterminated" with the Hunters at least. We had revenge, also with the Hunters (I'm not certain how often revenge is a motive for hunting in real life, but it turns up in fiction; "Moby-Dick" is probably the best-known case.) One real-life hunting motive that didn't make it to the list was hunting for food, and I think it's understandable that it was left out. For a start, I suspect that because the gargoyles were firmly established to the audience as sentient beings, humans trying to eat them would have seemed too disturbing. (I saw a documentary on "Rocky and Bullwinkle" several years ago which mentioned how they were going to do a scene where Rocky was captured by someone who was planning to roast him over a fire. Standards and Practices protested the idea of someone trying to eat a sentient squirrel like Rocky; the production team resolved the issue by having Rocky's captor explain that he's not going to eat him, just cook him; the episode ended with the cliffhanger of the now Standards-and-Practices-approved flames rising higher.) And from an in-universe perspective, I suspect that almost all the humans ready to hunt gargoyles down would regard them as unnatural demonic creatures - and no way would they want to eat them, in that case. (Some might even be afraid that if they ate a gargoyle, they'd start turning to stone in the daytime as well.) The big exception was Hyena, when she wondered in "Upgrade" whether gargoyles tasted like chicken and seemed eager to find out; it is the kind of thing we'd expect from her. (Greg Weisman once mentioned that Baba Yaga would probably make it into the series at some point, and based on what I've read about her, I can imagine her wanting to eat gargoyles as well. It would probably be a Timedancer adventure of Brooklyn's, if that story got told.)

I brought this up for the 25th anniversary as well, but to repeat it: I thought it a particularly good idea to have the Canmore Hunters' initial and primary target being Demona. While there were several reasons why that worked, one that I'll focus on is that it solved a potential problem with the human attacks on gargoyles. The nastier humans are the ones most likely to be trying to wipe out the gargoyles - and Goliath and his clan, the gargoyles whom the series' spotlight falls on, are protectors, sworn to defend the population of Manhattan from those who wish them harm. Consequently, a lot of the humans most apt to be violently anti-gargoyle would probably be at odd with the clan anyway as the local protectors, getting in their way (and indeed, many of the humans who slaughtered gargoyles in the backstory, like Hakon, Constantine, Duncan, and Canmore were doing so for this purpose as well as out of a dislike of gargyles). It could easily wind up seeming to be no more about xenophobia or hatred of the different and the other than, say, the crooks in Gotham City trying to get rid of Batman or the crooks in Marvel New York trying to get rid of Spiderman.

But having the Canmores initially concentrating on Demona, a gargoyle who's preying on the human race and wants to wipe it out, helps to remedy this difficulty. All the more so since, while the Canmores are clearly aware that Demona is hostile to humanity, they ultimately seem to be motivated more by private revenge than a wish to protect their fellow humans from her. That way, their war on gargoyles felt believably about "hating them for being gargoyles" rather than "hating them for being protectors".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Feb 13, 2025 7:19:48 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Thanks Todd, this wasn't something I thought of until I really started examining Greg's works I just started noticing certain things that popped up in his work. Like the military staple gun or biting kneecaps off.

Don't have much to say about "Possession." It's a good body-swap episode (the best still belongs to Farscape). I do like how the good deed from Xanatos, constructing bodies for the other souls in Coldstone, intermingles with Puck's body-swapping lesson for Alexander. It's a good reminder why Puck decided he wanted to work for Xanatos even while playing at being a stick-in-the-mud. Even when the guy has turned to the side of good (mostly) he's still got a scheme in mind or something that offers up plenty of mischief.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Feb 13, 2025 2:22:43 am EST from 135.180.3.149

MATT - I hadn't thought about comparing Demona's perspective on Princess Katharine loading the eggs up in the cart to her own taking an egg from the rookery (definitely a theft here - and with two humans doing a lot of the work for her), but that is a great point. Thanks for sharing it.

Rewatched "Possession" today.

This episode combines the Coldtrio (giving "Desdemona" and "Iago" their own bodies at last) with Puck giving Alex lessons - and with the Manhattan clan stuck in the middle. With one major consequence for the Manhattan clan: Broadway and Angela become a couple (which is all the more established in "The Journey" ahead).

A major feature of this episode is the voice actors' versatility, with Bill Faggerbakke and Brigitte Bako playing "Othello" and "Desdemona" in Broadway and Angela's bodies, Michael Dorn playing Puck in Coldstone's body, Keith David playing Puck pretending to be Goliath, and Jeff Bennett playing "Iago" in Brooklyn's body. You don't often see this kind of thing in "body-swap"-type events in animated television, which generally goes for the "possessed" person speaking with the voice of the possessor. (I'll admit that there was one occasion where such an approach was justified: the episode of "Batman Beyond" which featured Talia returning and turning out to be housing her father's consciousness. It had her, after the secret was revealed, speaking in Reis al-Ghul's voice; I thought it acceptable, for a change, simply because it's unthinkable to do an episode featuring him in the universe of "Batman: TAS" without David Warner's voice.) And the voice actors all did a fine job of playing someone else in this manner.

I remember that, the first time I saw this episode, I thought that the "technology isn't enough" at the start was about an attempt to repair Coldstone after his getting damaged in the Himalayas; the second time (and all the other times after that), I realized that Xanatos and Owen were talking about transferring "Desdemona" and "Iago" to Coldfire and Coldsteel's bodies. (I recall going through something similar the first time I saw "Legion"; I initially thought that Coldstone's odd behavior was due to the virus eroding his memory, but the second time, I realized he was switching consciousnesses instead. Which reminds me of Alesand's remark in "Dark Ages: Alliance" that she understood the "ur-Othello" play better the second time she saw it.)

Speaking of that last part, I liked the mention in the documents about this episode that Greg Weisman posted at "Ask Greg" that Xanatos and Fox's evening outing was a production of Verdi's "Otello". It felt so appropriate for a ColdTrio episode.

Alex has a winged teddy bear. (I had a rather silly creativity demon once of a spell going awry during one of his lessons and turning it into a living winged bear that wants to find out what gargoyles taste like....)

I liked the glimpse of "Castle Wyvern" inside Coldstone's mindscape, with parts of it missing, so that tower-tops are just floating in the air. Probably the last time we'll ever see it, now that all three of the Coldtrio have their own bodies and there's less reason for a look inside Coldstone.

I got a kick out of Bronx, after Puck's cast a friendliness spell on him, rubbing against Coldstone like a cat.

Coldfire and Coldsteel's robotic bodies are initially covered with sheets, in another "Frankenstein" hommage to match Coldstone's introduction in "Re-Awakening".

One of the most amusing moments in the episode is "Iago" in Brooklyn's body crying "That's impossible!" when it's suggested that "Iago" has taken over Coldstone - then hurriedly offering an explanation for that response.

Quite an amusing episode, especially thanks to Puck on the loose, which ensured several quotes below.


FAVORITE LINES.


COLDSTONE: Wait! You're not going to leave me like this?

XANATOS: We'll get back to you, Coldstone. Meantime, chin up.


PUCK (impersonating Goliath): Any volunteers?

ANGELA: I'll do it. I'd be honored.

BROADWAY: Me too!

BROOKLYN: Oh, yeah, me three! Except you don't need three.


PUck (impersonating Goliath): Well, your first magic lesson has officially begun.

{Changes "Hudson" back into Alex and shape-shifts back into Puck.}

PUCK: My boy, welcome to Soul Transference 101.


PUCK (in Coldstone's body): Naughty, naughty, sneaking up on Uncle Coldstone.


IAGO (in Brooklyn's body): Very astute, brother. Slow, but astute.


IAGO (in Brooklyn's body, confronting Coldsteel): By the Dragon, you're me!


GOLIATH (as an Alex-possessed Lexington unties Hudson, thereby dropping him): I suppose that's one way to do it.


COLDSTEEL: The raw energy, the unbridled power. I am Coldsteel! And it seems I am outnumbered. Try not to miss me too much. I'll be back!


PUCK: Finally! I thought you two would never grow a conscience!

GOLIATH: Puck! I should have known. But why the subterfuge?

PUCK: Hey, I live for subterfuge!
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Feb 12, 2025 7:12:19 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Todd> "Demona fumes about Princess Katharine ransacking the rookery and making off with the eggs."

This is all the more interesting in light of the ending of "Quest". More of that "What have I... What have they done?!" and becoming what you seek to destroy mindset that Demona excels at. I hope Angela gets to throw this hypocrisy back in her mother's face one day.
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Wed, Feb 12, 2025 9:36:35 am EST from 47.233.90.133

MATTHEW - Thank you for your thoughts on the clones. I remember your mentioning, back when I reviewed "Double Jeopardy", that you'd like to give your thoughts on them (not only in "Gargoyles", but in Greg Weisman's other animated series as well) when we reached "The Reckoning", and now you've fulfilled it and shared your observations - and good ones, too. (I remember the genomorphs from "Young Justice" and how pleasantly surprised I was by the revelation of their true nature.)

Incidentally, your mention of the derivation of Demona and Angela's names reminded me of something I'd thought of recently and been meaning to bring up for a while. When Oberon's Children were brought into "Gargoyles", they were also known as the Third Race. That was logical, of course, to match the first season having established two intelligent races in the world of the series, humans and gargoyles. But I've been reading lately about how the faerie-folk in British legend and folklore were indeed often viewed as a "third race" - in this case, the first two races or peoples being humans and angels (J. R. R. Tolkien himself alluded to this concept in a poem he wrote, "Imram", about the legendary sea-voyage of St. Brendan the Navigator; at one point, he hears "a song, but not of bird;/ neither noise of man nor angel's voice/ but maybe there is a *third*/ fair kindred in the world" - emphasis is mine - clearly the Elves). So "Gargoyles" was not the first to use this term for this people.

And the gargoyles are the beings neither human nor "faerie-folk" in the series, making them the counterpart to the angels in those earlier theories. Gargoyles, of course, are earthly beings, flesh and blood like humans, rather than angels in the Biblical sense. But they're referred to as "guardian angels" from time to time in the series, and we have, of course, Demona's original "angel in the night" title and Angela's name - not to mention Gabriel's. (And there is one story featuring an angel in the Bible that does evoke gargoyles - which I'll say more about later when I reach the Stone of Destiny story in "Clan-Building". I might add, something which has occasionally been pointed out, that the hints we get about angels in the Bible suggest awe-inspiring, even terrifying beings, who often have to start by calming down the humans who are beholding them - even the angel who appears to the shepherds in the Nativity story in Luke's Gospel; that gives angels and gargoyles one feature in common.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Feb 12, 2025 8:25:22 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Matthew the Fedora Guy> Interesting you talk about well a matter I brought up with The Owl House. Spoiler warning just in case. [SPOILER] I just imagine the rep clones get in entertainment don't help Hunter's insecurity especially prior to Gus getting him into Cosmic Frontier.
Gargoyles would be shaky at this point, but he might be all for Young Justice and Roy's two clones/family [/SPOILER].
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Feb 12, 2025 3:25:02 am EST from 68.119.3.1

Don't you love farce?
My fault, I fear
I thought that you'd want what I want
Sorry, my dear
But where are the clones?
Quick, send in the clones
Don't bother, they're here.

"The Reckoning" is aptly named as this has been long overdue. For the longest time when Demona and the clan have clashed she's usually held some form of advantage over them, usually with superior firepower or some kind of trick up her sleeve. For most of the episode that dynamic has shifted as she's been a prisoner in the Labyrinth and while not quite at their mercy, she doesn't hold the same control she used to anymore. And no better is that exemplified than with her scenes with Angela; it's been brought up before the "demon" and "angel" roots of their names but I've always liked that both of their names were given as compliments, it shows that had circumstances been just a little different for each of them, they could've been closer than the present situation allows. For good or bad.

Another thing I think that is worth bringing up is Greg's history of depicting clones in various media. In television, films, comics they tend to get a bad rap or are used as expendable cannon fodder. Heck, in Marvel it's practically become a cliché to have clones pop in and "undo" the damage from killing off characters, as if they're the same as the original. Or the DCAU which used clones as mindless baddies to give the heroes someone to fight for a season finale. Star Wars got close to something pretty nuanced, but it took a lot of retcons to really depict them as individuals in their own right, and of this writing they're still very much depicted as tragic figures where nothing ultimately went right for them.

Greg however tends to mix things up quite a bit. In Young Justice we have the genomorphs who despite being unintelligible and monstrous in appearance just want to live freely and not be used as weapons. Jim and Will (formerly Roy) have to deal with their own angst of being clones of Roy Harper and the latter having to deal with the fact that he's been living someone else's life. Even the events of Project Thrinos has the heroes wrestling with the morality of the clone of Orm before deciding to leave him to find his own destiny. I imagine that if Spectacular was able to continue it would have given a great retelling of the Clone Saga.

The clones introduced here are initially set up as the "evil copies" and there's no reason they couldn't play the role in its entirety. But instead they establish that these creatures are too young and programed to be simple so they don't have an agenda of their own, and then ends with the possibility of being guided so that they can determine their own path. And while it doesn't dwell much on it, Thailog throwing Goliath's initial disgust at the clones back in his face does help him realize that he's been unfair. It's rather fitting that while Goliath failed to reach Thailog in his introduction he succeeds here. Helps that unlike Thailog the bad influences are removed for these young clones so they can learn in a more positive environment. Betterment can come to heroes just as well as villains.

It's appropriate that Goliath would close things out by talking about a new beginning. Things have changed a lot during the latter half of season 2, Macbeth has ended any feud he might have with the clan, the Weird Sister's machinations have failed, a member of the Pack has turned over a new leaf. Even Xanatos and Fox are taking steps to being better people. It's rather fitting that Thailog steps up in terms of threats even as one of his fathers steps down. And we'll soon see new antagonists come in to fill the absentees of the usual rogues gallery.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Feb 12, 2025 2:39:39 am EST from 135.180.3.149

Sorry for the triple post, but I rewatched "The Reckoning" today.

This is another major episode. It's the clan's first clash with Demona in Manhattan since "High Noon". Demona and Angela properly interact for the first time, and we get a strong sense of Angela's conflicted feelings about her mother. Plus, we see the end of Demona and Thailog's partnership, and the introduction of the Clones.

One thing that still strikes me is that Thailog must like living dangerously. Breaking up with Demona to her face when she's in the same room with you is hazardous enough. Dumping her for a clone you secretly made of her even more so. But making that clone also a combined clone of herself and a human - and not just any human, but the police detective whom she really hates - and, as if that wasn't enough, telling her that - that has to fall under the category of "Do Not Try This At Home!" (Or anywhere else, for that matter.)

The Clones' parallel names to Hudson and the trio (the rough Los Angeles counterparts to the New York place names that they adopted) reminded me a bit of an episode in the first "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" cartoon where Shredder produced four mutant frogs to battle the turtles - and decided to name them after his favorite historical figures, to echo Splinter naming the turtles after four major artists of the Italian Renaissance. (These were Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, and Rasputin. Rasputin struck me as a bit of an "odd man out"; the other three were military leaders and conquerors, while Rasputin's archetype was more "corrupt mystic".)

And the Clones get a new home from Talon at the end, in a particularly sweet moment. (I did find myself wondering recently whether introducing a few new characters this close to the end of the season, characters designed to return, was that advisable, given that Episode 65 was just four episodes away.)

The episode opens with someone watching Goliath, Angela, and Brooklyn through binoculars - we don't see who, but are seeing the three gargoyles through their eyes. I wondered who this mystery point-of-view character was, this time around. Thailog, maybe, or Sevarius? Both would certainly have good reason to be monitoring the situation.

When Goliath talked about how they couldn't keep Demona imprisoned at the clock tower because she'd turn into a human in the daytime while all the other gargoyles were stone - I couldn't help but think that, while we obviously wouldn't want to see Demona taking advantage of that to smash the Manhattan gargoyles into pieces during their stone sleep, it would make an intriguing "what if" story (strictly "what if", of course) for one reason. Demona would be becoming one of the things she most hates: a human smashing gargoyles in their stone sleep. How would she respond if that struck her - most likely after she'd pounded the clan into fragments? I suspect she'd be frantically arguing that it doesn't count, that she's a gargoyle in the daytime who just happens to look like a human, but it'd be building up her guilt and her attempts to escape it all the more. Of course, it'll have to remain a hypothetical.

Elisa gets bitten by a mosquito in the Labyrinth; this is undoubtedly the moment when Sevarius and Thailog acquired her DNA, to make Delilah. I thought it was a nice touch to include that moment, a sort of "playing fair with the audience" piece (we got a similar one in how, every time Goliath gets a tracker planted on him - "Awakening", "Eye of the Beholder", and "Hunter's Moon" - we see someone linked to the tracking device touching him before the tracker comes into play - Xanatos resting a hand on Goliath's shoulder in "Awakening" and "Eye of the Beholder", Robyn Canmore doing the same as she's ushering Goliath into his cell in "Hunter's Moon"; for that matter, I recall delighted remarks here about how, in the episode of "The Spectacular Spider-Man" where Chameleon was impersonating Spiderman, we were shown how he was duplicating Spiderman's abilities).

Demona fumes about Princess Katharine ransacking the rookery and making off with the eggs. While we know that much of what she said during those conversations with Angela was acting, that she knew that Angela was her daughter all along (note that her eyes don't glow in rage when she's crying "How dare you mock me?", a hint that she's feigning it), I suspect she really did see Princess Katharine and the Magus's action that way when she spotted them doing it in "City of Stone Part One". (Remember, she didn't know that Goliath had entrusted them with the eggs.)

We got a good clue about Delilah when Sevarius is talking about "three down, two to go", and when we see five clone-containers in his laboratory. I didn't notice it the first time I watched it, I'll confess, but it certainly showed that there was one extra clone in the wings besides the ones of the trio and Hudson. Another case of playing fair with the audience. (I recall that the first time I saw this episode and heard Sevarius talking about a "growth industry" around the mosquito, I briefly thought he was about to come up with giant insects; it was something of a relief for me that it was cloned gargoyles instead.)

Talon's "Feel free to hurry back" remark to Goliath, in a not-too-friendly tone, reminded me of Greg Weisman's remark that the member of the Maza family who'd have the biggest problem with Elisa and Goliath as a couple was Talon.

I spotted a few masks on a wall in the funhouse that reminded me of the masks of the gargoyle cast on the cover of #4 of "Clan-Building".

Greg Weisman once mentioned that originally, this was designed to be the season finale, before they decided to make that "Hunter's Moon" (originally intended to be direct-to-video release) the season finale instead. While this is a good episode and Goliath's word at the end do match a "season finale" ending fairly well, I think that "Hunter's Moon" makes an even better finale, and am glad they chose it for that role instead.

FAVORITE LINES.

BROOKLYN: If the boredom doesn't get us, the mosquitos will.


DEMONA: I should have known. You always travel in groups.

GOLIATH: We are a clan, Demona. That's something you forgot long ago.


ANGELA (gazing down at the temporarily unconscious Demona): She looks so peaceful.

BROOKLYN: Yeah? Wait till she wakes up.


TALON: Sorry. I'm afraid we have mosquitos down here - and worse.

FANG: Hey! Hey! I resemble that remark!


SEVARIUS: Ah, the prodigal bug returns.


SEVARIUS: You know, when they call bio-engineering a growth industry, they're not kidding.


SEVARIUS: Nice doing business with you, Thailog. All you have to do now is decide on the programming. My advice: keep it simple. You don't want to end up with another you.

THAILOG: My thoughts exactly.


ANGELA: Yes, but that doesn't explain how you could have done so many terrible things.

DEMONA: How can you judge me? You've been hiding on a magical island, while I've been out in the real world.


FANG: Hey, Demona, I've always respected you as a fellow inmate! Some of my best friends are half-gargoyle half-human babes with bad attitudes!

DEMONA: He's a fool, but he may be of some use.

FANG: I can work with that.


THAILOG: Face it, Goliath, my clan can beat your clan any day of the week.


GOLIATH: If you consider these poor creatures to be your clan, you have sunk even lower than I imagined.

THAILOG: Now, now, that's your friends' genetic make-up you're insulting.


ANGELA: You knew the whole time?

DEMONA: I had to make you understand.

ANGELA: I understand perfectly. All this was a charade designed to turn me against my father, to trap and destroy my clan. You are capable of anything. I hate you.

{Demona turns away in silent grief.}


BROOKLYN: It's all over, you forgery!


BURBANK: You our master now?

TALON: Better than that. I'll teach you how to think for yourselves - and use verbs.


ANGELA: The last thing I said to her was "I hate you", but she sacrificed herself for me. How can it end this way?

GOLIATH: She knew how you truly felt. And Demona's love for you was the first goodness she has shown in a long, long time. For her, it may have been a new beginning. A new beginning for us all.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Feb 11, 2025 7:39:31 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Sorry for the double post, but there was one other little thought I'd had about "Turf" that I forgot to mention in my review/commentary last evening. There's one way to get the trio to back down on Angela, though it would require "thinking like a human", so it wouldn't have worked that well. "Demona for a mother-in-law".

Which does connect to the next episode....
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Feb 11, 2025 8:53:43 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Thanks for the comments. I might have mentioned this before, but one thing that struck me recently was that, when "Gargoyles" first came out, I didn't give much (if any) thought to the fact that the Manhattan gargoyles and Demona were seemingly the only gargoyles left and that the species could die with them. I suspect that this may have been largely due to the fact that what had most grabbed my attention about the series was the gargoyles' medieval roots, and their response to the modern world from that background.

And good thought, Matthew, on how the gang war (with far more than two factions involved now) might have gone if the "Here in Manhattan" stories had been part of a televised third season. I don't want to engage in too much speculation, but I'd like to briefly address that "What If" between Season Two and "Clan-Building".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Feb 11, 2025 8:11:07 am EST from 68.99.93.213

And here's "Turf" the obligatory relationship-focused episode. Okay, there's a lot more to it than just that but it is the thing most people talk about. Shipping and the fandom's obsession with it can be a death sentence for some shows so I glad that this episode both brought it out into the open and shut it down pretty quickly. Angela is not a prize to be won nor an object to be fought over and whatever happens should happen naturally (though as we'll see there's plenty of unnatural elements that will come into play). It's a harsh lesson but one kids, and teens, and grown adults for that matter should learn. It's probably for the best that the moral was given like ripping off a band-aid.

At the same time it's a fascinating narrative piece as well and one that I wish was explored a little earlier even if the season was coming to a close soon. Besides the fact that they're still hormonal young adults, the idea that their species will probably die out with them was something hanging over the heads of all of the Manhattan Clan. The revelation that there's more like Angela in Avalon and across the world changes everything, but at the same time she's present and the rest are just so far away. And while Brooklyn was probably the most noticeable in his loneliness, there's a high probability the others were feeling it too. That's not excusing their behavior, just explaining why they morphed into the Three Stooges for this episode.

There's another element that this show is far more willing to explore than other animated series that followed the formula of "non-human team of heroes living in the human world" is that it was willing to delve into the nature of relationships. Most others tended to avoid such topics and focus on action and selling more toys. Goliath and Elisa's budding relationship of course is an important part of the show and showcases the "human/non-human" relationship that could be teased but rarely explored or confirmed in other animated properties.

Okay, I ended up talking more about shipping than I meant to. The gang war between Brod and Dracon means a lot more now that we have "Here in Manhattan" to give it more depth. I imagine in a proper animated third season the gang war would probably be a full on multi-parter, though I'm not sure how many episodes production would dedicate to it.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Feb 11, 2025 4:32:50 am EST from 135.180.3.149

A fun and educational experience! Whether you're a traveler or a geography lover, is a great way to learn about the world!
geoguessr - [piokaeseaw at gmail dot com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 11, 2025 3:32:46 am EST from 77.111.247.7

Yeah, Dracon being forced to share a cell with Brod, when Brod is presumably charged with trying to murder Tony in that very same facility, is one of the most annoyingly unrealistic things on the show. No way in hell that Department of Corrections would place an attempted murder suspect and his intended target in the same enclosed space. Even as a kid I thought it was ridiculous, but now as a lawyer, I know that a writ would be issued immediately to get him moved, and many heads would roll due to the fact that it ever even happened in the first place. The fact that they're STILL sharing a cell nine months later in the comics is extraordinarily silly; the implication that Elisa apparently made the decision makes no sense; and Elisa's line that she finds it "funny"...listen, I love Elisa, and want to believe she's a great cop who truly cares about upholding justice. So I do my best to just kind of pretend this didn't happen, as best as I can. Grr.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Feb 11, 2025 3:04:08 am EST from 69.118.30.106

Rewatched "Turf" today.

This episode is best-known for the trio pursuing Angela, and in the process, making themselves look like the gargoyle equivalent of the Three Stooges (moments like crashing into that chimney certainly help) - and Angela's response. (More on that in a moment.) It also continues the organized crime thread; now Dracon's power and influence are clearly waning, while Brod has shown up in New York as a rival.

As Elisa points out, the trio's response to Angela is inevitable; it's the first time since the Wyvern Massacre that they've been around a female gargoyle their age. It led to some lively arguments, particularly Broadway and Lexington protesting about Brooklyn's abuse of power when he keeps pairing Angela up with himself. Fortunately, Angela soon gets through to them - especially pointing out that stopping the Dracon and Brod gangs is more important, and all's well at the end - she even kisses all three of them. And Brooklyn, after he and the others learn about Angela's rookery sisters on Avalon, asks when they get their own world tour - Brooklyn, surely you've heard about "Be careful what you ask for".

As I mentioned above, "Turf" shows how Dracon's fortunes are waning. For the first time in the series, he's still in prison at the start of the episode; no being "back out on the streets" as in "The Silver Falcon" or "Protection". Evidently he gave himself away enough in "Protection" that his lawyers gave up on him. And although Glasses is still running the operations for him (and doing a good job of it), Brod's shown up to challenge the gang. (I find the irony almost amusing; Brod left Prague to get away from the Golem - only to pick a city that has *seven* "mythical beings" protecting it!) The organized crime element in "Gargoyles" is getting more complicated (and will become still more complex in "Here in Manhattan").

Two elements in the Dynamite comics may give new perspectives to this episode. First, we now know that this isn't the first time the trio were acting with a female gargoyle in their age group - although they were a lot younger back then, and would have seen Antiope as just a friend and playmate. (Her coloring is rather like Angela's, too.) And Angela makes her famous "Stop calling me 'Angie'!" cry in an episode featuring Tony Dracon - who, we now know, has a sister who also dislikes having her first name abbreviated.

We see a stray cat roaming about at the start of the episode, which reminds me of Greg's (probably not too serious) speculation that Bronx was having an adventure with Cagney about this time. I seriously doubt, of course, that the cat was Cagney (even though the coloring looked similar) - I certainly can't imagine him leaving his and Elisa's apartment again after that long stretch away from it in the clock tower (even if the trio and Hudson were good pet-sitters).

Elisa in her "Salli" disguise immediately brings up the possibility, after the police showed up during their raid on the Dracon operations in the first act, that someone informed them about it; of course, it turns out to be the old strategy of "One way to keep people from thinking that you're the mole is to be the one to bring up that there's a mole around". We saw something similar to it in "Sanctuary" when Thailog shouts, after Macbeth blasts his way out of prison with the laser pistol that Thailog had slipped him, "Didn't you search him?" And for that matter, in Season One of "Young Justice", the Light showed a similar strategy in seeing to it that their mole was the guy searching everywhere for the mole.

The guy being led in by the police suddenly putting up such a fight that more police have to come in to subdue him, giving Elisa the opportunity to sneak up to the clock tower, strikes me as almost too convenient - but it seems too far-fetched that Elisa had gotten him to do it, so it must be a coincidence. Just a very handy one.

Glasses mentions that three generations of Dracons have been handling organized crime in Manhattan; that remark stands out after "Here in Manhattan" as well, now that we've met members of all three generations: Dominic for the first, Dino for the second, Tony and Antoinette for the third.

The end, with Dracon and Brod having to share a cell, seems unlikely to me, but it's still a very amusing closing scene, which makes up for it.

FAVORITE LINES.

GLASSES: Come on down to Dracon's House of Auto Parts. The prices are hot, and so is the merchandise.


BROD (after "Salli" is taken out by one of Dracon's men): That is why I never go in first.


ANGELA (after the trio crash into the chimney): I tried to warn you.

THE TRIO (in unison): Thanks.


BROD: "Chop shop"? What is "chop shop"?


BROD: That was my favorite restaurant!


ELISA: Why would Dracon be carrying weapons on a passenger train?

BROD: This {Czech word} is clever.

GLASSES (as he and the other Dracon gang members break ambush): You got that right, pal.


ANGELA: Oh, and another thing. Stop calling me Angie!


BROD: I have been making big mistake. You want to kill snake, you cut off the head.


TONY DRACON: What's going on here? I didn't order a break-out!


ELISA: Never thought I'd find myself protecting Tony Dracon.


BROD: Is this the only way into the cell block?

JACK DANFORTH: Yes!

{Brod shoots the lock, melting it.}

BROD: Not any more.


ANGELA: Can't you do something? I thought you flew a helicopter.

LEXINGTON: Yeah, but, uh, first I kind of crashed it.


BROD: Like shooting fish in barrel, no?

ELISA: No!


TONY DRACON: You should have checked her references, Brod. Meet Elisa Maza, NYPD.


TONY DRACON: You want a piece of me, Brod? You got it! Right after I exterminate these bats.

BROD: {Czech exclamation.} I will crush you! But first, the reptiles!

BROOKLYN: These guys just can't play nice.

BROADWAY: Yeah, we better take away their toys.


ELISA (to the prison guards): Hi, I got some new inmates for you. A couple of creeps who were messing with my turf.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 7:21:46 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

(Seventh)
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 2:59:13 pm EST from 72.216.220.229

Sixth*
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 2:54:15 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

#Fifth
Craig
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 2:19:19 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

Fourth;
Phil - [p1anderson at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 1:16:39 pm EST from 50.192.123.171

Third.

(Should that be, "Third?" so we get a good rotation of punctuation going?)
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 1:01:55 pm EST from 108.69.72.60

Second!
Matt
"Human problems become gargoyle problems..."
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 8:23:09 am EST from 204.184.178.1

First.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Feb 10, 2025 7:32:25 am EST from 68.99.93.213