Todd> Yeah, Boudicca's name also struck me as appropriate if that is indeed one day her fate. I always felt that she should've remained in Manhattan when Oberon brought her there and joined the Clan at that point, but this theory is even more interesting to me.

Craig> Great finds! Those take me back!
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Sun, Mar 2, 2025 7:45:08 pm EST from 47.233.90.133

CRAIG - Thanks for the link. I remember that introduction - and, yes, Goliath *does* look rather like Czernabog.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Mar 2, 2025 4:35:34 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Whoops, somehow I linked to the 1995 version. This is the version from Gargoyles' premiere season (equally headache-inducing):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c70Dj85dneE

Sorry for the double post.
Craig
posted @ Sun, Mar 2, 2025 4:17:22 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

Matt > I love that theory.

Here's a bit of nostalgia I wasn't sure I'd ever see again: the 1994 revamped Disney Afternoon intro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVL2cRlIBQ

Holy '90s, Batman! Definitely a big downgrade from the great intro from the earlier seasons. But of great sentimental value to me because this was the first time I ever saw Goliath (and assumed it was Chernabog). I remember trying to pause the VHS and try to read what the hell that circling text said. What an obnoxious design.
Craig
posted @ Sun, Mar 2, 2025 4:11:01 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

MATT - That's an appealing idea, that the new gargoyle beast accompanying Rory and Molly is from the Avalon clan. Maybe even Boudicca - which would give an additional "ancient Celtic" flavor to the group, in light of her namesake.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Mar 2, 2025 2:05:01 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Rory's beast> One possibility is that it comes from Avalon. I can see Oberon sending Banshee out with a watchdog. Oberon has worked with Boudicca before and is familiar with her, so perhaps she is the beast that ends up with Rory. I like the idea of both Bronx and his mate having a connection to Rory and it might help explain why Boudicca is unavailable to join her mate in Manhattan.

Irish Gargoyles> I have long suspected that long ago most of the gargoyles that inhabit the British Isles (and perhaps all of Europe) were more akin to the London Clan in appearance. As I've said before, I think the Scottish stock that we are used to were only brought to Scotland (by Wyvern and others perhaps) after the sinking of Atlantis. Not sure if I think the Loch Ness Clan has always been there or if they too came from Atlantis, though I suspect the latter. I think that the most closely related extant clan to the Wyvern Clan survivors and the Loch Ness Clan is actually the Mayan Clan (which also is descended from Atlantean gargoyles). All just an educated guess at this point, of course. Anyway, I think the Irish gargoyles and beasts were furry and animal-like in appearance like the London Clan.
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Sun, Mar 2, 2025 10:01:46 am EST from 47.233.90.133

I'm also a bit curious on what the Irish stock of gargoyles or garg beasts look like. The Scottish and English are quite different from each other, I wonder if the Irish have a distinction to them as well.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sat, Mar 1, 2025 10:47:49 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

That's a good question. I wonder whether Greg Weisman and the others ever worked that bit out, though I'd like to know more. (The "black dogs" of the British Isles' myths and legends were generally depicted as living by themselves, but that doesn't seem to be the case for gargoyle beasts any more.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Mar 1, 2025 10:27:24 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

I’ve been thinking more about the potential “Heroes of Ulster” spinoff. I wonder where Rory encounters his new gargoyle beast companion. The only gargoyle clans in the British Isles are the London Clan (which doesn’t have any beasts) and the Loch Ness Clan.
Phil - [P1anderson at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 1, 2025 9:46:14 pm EST from 104.28.104.64

Thanks for another great Voices from the Eyrie, Greg and Jennifer. One thing that strikes me about these podcasts is how knowledgeable and FUN everyone who worked on Gargoyles is. I think the show isn't necessarily always remembered as a "fun" show per se (in the way that maybe Animaniacs might be), but it seems like everyone who worked on it is just an absolute delight. I could hardly keep up with all the mythological stuff Diane and Peter were bringing up, and had to scribble some notes (horribly misspelled I'm sure) for things I wanted to look into further.

One thing I remember about this episode is that my mom hated whenever it aired because the Banshee sound design drove her nuts. Trust me, that's a compliment to the sound team doing their job well (my mom is very noise-sensitive). It is a truly stunning piece of soundscape, especially for the era.
Craig
posted @ Sat, Mar 1, 2025 2:15:35 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

MATTHEW - Yes, I noticed that point about Hemings as well - though there's no indication, so far, that he first entered the White House immediately after McKinley's assassination. (For that matter, Andrew Johnson, whom Xanatos mentioned, also became President following his predecessor's assassination.)

And one detail I forgot to mention, but this is the chapter that reveals that Thailog has joined the Illuminati.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Mar 1, 2025 8:14:30 am EST from 68.99.93.213

While the conflict between Goliath and Thailog takes the center stage and we get more revealed on the Illuminati, I do think Delilah and the clones are the heart of this issue. I had mentioned before that our heroes had underestimated their clones back in "Reckoning" here we get to see a little more of that as Delilah finds her voice and a sense of agency and Brentwood leaves to join Thailog having decided to follow the charismatic doppelganger.

It's rather appropriate that Delilah finds her voice on the same Halloween that Elisa dresses as Jasmine, a character known for her feistiness and insistence that she wasn't a prize to be won, even making things awkward for her father, her love interest and even the main villain. Delilah has no problem chewing out friend and foe alike, she's not siding with Thailog but that doesn't mean she's just going to fall in line with the original gargoyles, nor raise the point that Goliath has no right to bring her along and just discard her once he and Elisa work things out. It brings to mind Superboy's line to the Justice League about getting on board or getting out of the way back in the two-part opener. She may be new to this world but she isn't beholden to either her creator nor to the older and more experienced heroes.

I think this also demonstrates a marked difference between Xanatos and Thailog. Both are highly intelligent and quite charismatic but while Xanatos wanted pawns in his schemes and had no problem manipulating others, he still respects and admires the tenacity, intelligence and agency of figures like Goliath, the clan and Elisa. Thailog however makes it clear he only wants followers and his speech while sardonic and playful lacks any of the charm Xanatos brings. He's the kind of guy that makes you want to shower after a conversation. I still think it'd be appropriate for his clones to be a major factor in his undoing.

Quincy Hemings is an interesting figure. Funny that he should be Chief Steward after Kennedy's assassination considering he first entered the White House staff during Teddy Roosevelt's tenure, who took over the presidency after the assassination of McKinley.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Sat, Mar 1, 2025 12:31:19 am EST from 135.180.3.149

Should have been "Double Date"; I really have to watch for typos.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Feb 28, 2025 8:22:27 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Reread "Bash" today, which completes the Double Dare story - as well as setting up the Stone of Destiny story, through Xanatos's meeting with Quincy Hemings.

This chapter really ties in with Matthew's earlier remarks about how "Gargoyles" (and Greg Weisman's other works) have handled clones - as their own people. Delilah gets a truly wonderful scene where she reveals so much about herself. She rebukes Angela for urging her not to listen to Thailog, pointing out correctly that having free will means having the option of listening to him as well as refusing to listen to him. She gives Goliath a telling-off for "dating" her when he doesn't truly have feelings for her - and then, as Thailog's chuckling over the whole thing, confronts him with the fact that he used her as well (though Thailog isn't at all rattled, naturally).

And Brentwood also decides to follow Thailog - not out of an automatic "obey Thailog" tone, but because he's impressed with Thailog's cunning and wants to get in on it. (I liked the touch of Lexington being especially upset because it's *his* clone who's choosing to side with Thailog - and, appropriately, he's dressed up as the villainous version of himself from "Future Tense" at the time - a villainous version of himself that Brentwood will apparently be emulating.)

We also get an adaptation of perhaps the best moment of "The Goliath Chronicles" - one of those moments where we admit it had its good points - between Hudson and Jeffrey Robbins. I'm glad that Greg Weisman adapted that scene between them.

Brooklyn continues to deal with the fact that everyone seems to be finding love except him - with the really great touch that Delilah's pairing up with Brooklyn's clone Malibu! While his situation is still serious at heart, I thought that particular detail gave it a comical tone, with his utter exasperation over the fact that his clone has found love before him. (And Delilah and Malibu's becoming a couple may be another echo of "Future Tense", like Brentwood's path.)

Dr. Sato returns for the first time since "Deadly Force" - to become another of the gargoyles' human associates (we'll see more of that in Chapter Seven, of course). (We also get a cameo from Mary and Finella, hinting what became of them after "Avalon Part One" - which will be confirmed, for Mary, in the early chapters of "Here in Manhattan".)

And in the White House, we see Xanatos and Quincy Hemings' meeting - including the revelation of how many membership slots are in the Illuminati. I recall doing the math to figure it out after I read that part, just to find out how many Illuminati at most there are - and certainly hadn't expected that precise number, though it made sense to me. (It certainly raises the question of what the Illuminati leadership, who are charged with the custody of a Christian relic like the Holy Grail, are doing with the Number of the Beast - though a lot of the things that the Illuminati have done don't seem like the kind of thing the Grail would approve of, if it's anything like the Holy Grail in Sir Thomas Malory.)

Quincy Hemings' name struck me as well. The "Hemings" part is obviously a reference to Sally Hemings. The "Quincy" part of his name might be an allusion to the family of John Adams, which would be all the more appropriate, given the strong links between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, starting off as working together in the American Revolution, then bitter enemies after the United States were founded, then reconciling later - and both passing on on the fiftieth anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence (the kind of event which, if it had appeared in a work of fiction, would have seemed too contrived to be believable). It certainly suggests ties between the Illuminati and the Founding Fathers (which we'd have all the more reason to suspect, given where the Illuminati's symbol wound up).

And we get some fun with, not only Hemings' longevity, but also a couple of cases of U.S. presidents sharing surnames. (Xanatos's quip about Andrew Johnson, admittedly, doesn't make so much sense, given that Andrew Johnson came before both Roosevelts.) We've also learned since (though it's still canon-in-training) that Hemings got the job the day after Kennedy was shot in Dallas, which certainly ties in with its conspiracy-theory-attracting status.

Angela dares call Thailog a "bastard" (which fits him in both senses of the word). And he addresses her as "sis" (which she probably dislikes being called almost as much as "Angie"); trust him to do that.

On the fight - I still get a particular smile out of Broadway tossing Burbank's mace over his shoulder and bonking Malibu with it.

And the ending - the big meeting between Thailog and Shari/Shahrazad. That was one moment we definitely didn't see coming....


FAVORITE LINES.

THAILOG: You know, dad, when we crashed this party, I thought it'd be a total snooze. But it's quite the bash, wouldn't you agree?


HUDSON: I know ye heard about those gargoyles on the television. Well, I'm one of 'em. A gargoyle.

JEFFREY ROBBINS: Figured.

HUDSON: How... how long have you -

JEFFREY ROBBINS: Not 'til the news reports. But it all makes sense. That faint whiff of old leather and concrete... The way you always vanish before sunrise... The way you never shook my hand.

HUDSON (shaking hands with him): Until now, my friend. Until now.


HOLLYWOOD: Where gar-girl?

ANGELA (swooping on him from behind): Gar-girl here!


LEXINGTON: You have free will...

BRENTWOOD: Free will...

LEXINGTON: Why are you helping Thailog?

THAILOG: Here's a better question. Why does everyone insist on pitching free will to my minions?


ELISA: I'm a part of this clan...

GOLIATH (weakly): Elisa....

ELISA: Nothing will ever change that!

THAILOG (slashing at her with a wrist-guard knife): Good to know.


QUINCY HEMINGS: Been on staff here since the Roosevelt administration.

XANATOS: F. D. R.?

QUINCY HEMINGS: Teddy. An' I been Chief Steward here since Johnson.

XANATOS: Andrew?

QUINCY HEMINGS: L. B. J. Now don't get smart, boy.


HUDSON: So, lads, who invited Thailog to this party?

THAILOG (slashing at Bronx): Please, Hudson. You know I am the party!


DELILAH: I believe this conflict may now cease.

THAILOG: Delilah, my angel, I've been waiting for you.

ANGELA: Don't listen to him!

DELILAH: Is that an order, Angela? Or am I truly free to make my own choices?

THAILOG: I'm sure we'll all abide by your decision, love, because I'm sure you'll make the correct one.

GOLIATH: Delilah....

DELILAH: "Delilah can mean nothing to me." Isn't that what you said, Goliath? You used me.

THAILOG: Fresh out of the can and already so intuitive. Must be the good genes, eh, detective?

{Elisa silently glares at him.}

DELILAH (slapping Thailog): You used me as well, Thailog?

THAILOG: Moi?


BRENTWOOD: Brentwood free will Clone! Brentwood stay Thailog! Thailog smart!

THAILOG: Finally, someone making sense.

LEXINGTON: What? No! Dude, you're really making me look bad.

GOLIATH (in a weak voice): Let him go.... Let them both go...

ELISA: Goliath, please. Save your strength.

GOLIATH: Choice must extend... to those... who choose... unwisely....

THAILOG: And on that death-rattle note, I think we'll take our leave.


GOLIATH: Elisa... sunrise is... hours away....

ELISA: Don't talk like that....

GOLIATH: You cannot... stop me... I will... say it... this once... I love you....

ELISA: I love you too....

{She kisses him. Brooklyn looks at them and smiles - then turns to see Broadway and Angela holding hands, and his smile fades. Then he turns his head again to see Delilah and Malibu standing together.}

BROOKLYN: Oh, you gotta be kiddin' me....


THAILOG: Thirty-six.

SHAHRAZAD: Nine.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Feb 28, 2025 7:46:22 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

One good thing about "Masque" is that it cuts through a lot of long, drawn-out, drama that usually follows stories of the "will they or won't they" nature. Elisa coming face-to-face with Delilah doesn't follow the usual clichés but rather she sees that he's wholly attracted to her and failing that, he's drawn to someone who's at least part of her. And in a bit of surprising maturity, Elisa recognizes that while she's still not through her complicated feelings on the matter she still acknowledges that the Halloween dating debacle was her mistake.

One thing I want to bring is Billy and Susan's mother being uneasy at the sight of the Quarrymen, it's a good example of the different tiers of prejudice. She might believe that the gargoyles are indeed frightening and monstrous and she might've bought into the rhetoric that they could come after her children. But there's a difference between being paranoid and fearful of the "other" from afar and being prepared to enact those prejudices with violent action. I brought up the film "The Black Legion" earlier and how easy it is for Bogart's character to get roped into the bigotry towards immigrants because he's a frustrated man looking for someone to direct that frustration to. But when he gets pulled into the titular legion and he comes face-to-face with violent, hooded murderers, his nerve fails and he begins to see just how far he's fallen.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, Feb 28, 2025 5:29:01 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

No time for a fuller response but quick shout out for another bonzer Voices episode - that Peter Morwood is a riot! Also amazing to have Robby back on the comic at last.
Ed
posted @ Fri, Feb 28, 2025 3:51:49 pm EST from 86.140.47.43

Matt> I would say that the latest podcast episode has boosted Heroes of Ulster and Pendragon up higher on my list of most anticipated spin-offs, but to be honest they're basically all tied for number one. As much as I love the episodes and comics we have, what keeps me locked in and coming back is knowing that there's more to look forward to. The hints and spoilers that have slipped out over the years keep me anticipating new material, and make it impossible to move on like I have with so many other franchises I used to obsess over.
Phil - [p1anderson at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Feb 28, 2025 9:44:47 am EST from 50.192.123.171

I thought it appropriate that Rory might have joined the cast of "Pendragon", because there's a theory that Sir Gawain in the Arthurian legend was partly based on Cuchulain (I brought up here, during my review of "The Hound of Ulster" a few weeks ago, that Irish legend gave Cuchulain a "beheading game" adventure evocative of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight", and T. H. White even had one of Arthur's knights suggest, in "The Once and Future King", that "Cuchulain" was an earlier form of Gawain's name).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Feb 28, 2025 8:38:16 am EST from 68.99.93.213

What I particularly loved about the latest Voices episode (aside from the terrific guests!) was hearing more about some spinoff plans. Namely, that "Heroes of Ulster" would involve Oberon sending Banshee back to Ireland and that she as Molly would team up with Rory and a new gargoyle beast. There was also talk that those three would eventually join the cast of "Pendragon". Very cool stuff! Maybe one day...
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Fri, Feb 28, 2025 8:32:33 am EST from 204.184.178.1

Todd Jensen> Yeah, Elisa's costume is why in part I did the Aladdin article on GargWiki.

And then upon thinking about The Animal Kingdom, I thought a comparison to the New Olympians episode/pilot would add more to the page.
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Feb 27, 2025 11:32:06 pm EST from 68.119.3.1

Listened to the latest "Voices from the Eyrie" podcast on "The Hound of Ulster", which I enjoyed, as ever. [SPOILER] It included a lot about the Irish legends about Cuchulain, the Banshee, and the rest, and the changes made to them, much of which I discussed in my review of this episode some weeks back. I liked the notion that Culainn's original hound that Cuchulain slew was a gargoyle beast. [/SPOILER]

Reread "Masque" today. It continued the Double Date story, now showing the two couples - and it's Officer Morgan (dressed up as Sherlock Holmes, or the popular notion of Holmes) who's Elisa's date (cf. my comments on "Invitation Only"). He even gets to shake hands with Goliath.

Elisa's costume produces its own smile, given how a lot of the people who saw the "Goliath Chronicles" episode "Seeing Isn't Believing" remarked that she was drawn in that one a lot like Jasmine. That remark feels funnier after this chapter came out.

I remember someone remarking about the Double Date story that Delilah - while the only available female gargoyle for Goliath in Manhattan - would have been the worst possible date for Goliath, thanks to her being a part-clone of Elisa; her resemblance to Elisa would only remind him of whom he's truly given his heart to. And we definitely see that here. It's going poorly even before Thailog crashes the party.

Billy and Susan's mother is uneasily eyeing the Quarrymen as they walk past; although she'd been present at Castaway's recruitment drive, she's clearly having second thoughts about them (and we learn in the Halloween Special that she'd decided not to join them). Another case (like Vinnie) of someone in the regular public feeling less keen on the idea when they'd had time to think it over. (Indeed, it'd make sense for the "regular public" part of the Manhattan population to pull away from the Quarrymen, to avoid repeating the Vinnie thread in "The Journey". The one drawback is that having the Quarrymen being composed mostly of the nastier folks like Chaz and Lou, who'd be after Goliath and his clan anyway for being crime-fighters, would make the organization feel less about fear of the other.)

And we see Hudson visiting Jeffrey Robbins for Halloween (taking Bronx along with him - a wise move; it makes sure that Bronx won't stroll into the party at the Eyrie Building, make a beeline for the buffet table, and start helping himself to his contents, though that would have been a lot of fun to see), leading into a scene in the next chapter. (And also getting an allusion to the "Nice mask" line from "Awakening Part Two".)

Margot, for once, has a pleasant encounter with the gargoyles - it helps that this time she thinks they're just guests in costume - and who showed more originality in dressing up as gargoyles than Brendan and the other guests had by adding extra costumes. (Including Lexington dressed like his "Future Tense" self - one wonders what Goliath and Owen would have made of that. Owen would keep a deadpan response, of course, and Goliath is more focused on other matters.)

Brentwood is the one among the Clones who comments on Thailog being alive after all, and who muses over free will when Maggie mentions it - foreshadowing for what lies ahead.

Perhaps my favorite moment is when Owen steps in to make it clear that Goliath and Thailog are *not* going to have another of those big fights that winds up demolishing half the castle (they do wind up fighting, yes, but on a smaller scale that won't damage the architecture). He's clearly had enough of those (he was even showing disapproval of them as far back as "Enter Macbeth").

FAVORITE LINES.

HUDSON: Off with ye, now. Terrify the neighbors.

JEFFREY ROBBINS: Hudson? Did I hear that child say you're wearing a mask?

HUDSON: Did ye hear me say, Robbins, that we're running shy o' candy?

JEFFREY ROBBINS: There's more in the kitchen, but you didn't answer my question.

HUDSON: Ah, my friend, I think we all wear masks.


MARGOT: I told you to come as Valentino - but Brendan Quarters isn't happy unless he's the biggest cliche of the season!

BRENDAN: Give it a rest, Margot.


THAILOG: Goliath? And Delilah? On a... date?

{He roars with laughter.}

THAILOG: Wow. Haven't had a good maniacal laugh in weeks.


GOLIATH: Elisa.

ELISA: I didn't realize... I mean, I knew Delilah was my clone, but I hadn't seen her... and now... seeing her - with you... it hurts.

GOLIATH: And you think I am not in pain? Bringing her was your idea, not mine. Delilah can mean nothing to me. Elisa, gargoyles mate for life. After Demona, I never thought to love again. But what you and I share...

ELISA (running off): Tonight was a mistake. My mistake. But it doesn't change anything. I'm sorry.

THAILOG: Well, wasn't that a pretty scene? I'll admit I came expecting to be entertained, but your penchant for drama always exceeds expectations, father.

GOLIATH: So you are alive. I assume you have come for Delilah. You will not get her.

THAILOG (producing a couple of blasters): I've brought friends that say otherwise.

OWEN: Ahem. I'm afraid I must insist on confiscating those two particular friends.

THAILOG: You and what army, Burnett?

OWEN: This army.

{We see two groups of Xanatos Commandos, posted atop the towers overlooking the courtyard, pointing their fire-arms at Thailog below.}

THAILOG: Do you really want a firefight?

OWEN: No. Mr. Xanatos would not appreciate any interruptions to his fete. And I have transcended any pleasure received from supervising the endless reconstruction of this castle. So I propose you hand over your weapons... and in return, I will dismiss security and send Delilah up here.

GOLIATH: What? You cannot offer Delilah in trade?!

OWEN: But we can offer Delilah a choice, assuming she is to have free will.

THAILOG: No interference?

OWEN: None on my end. I'll leave you to your own devices.

GOLIATH: She will not choose you.

THAILOG: We'll know soon enough. In the meantime, there's one thing I've always wondered about... What would happen if I did - this?

{Stabs Goliath with a knife from his wristguard.}
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Feb 27, 2025 9:47:26 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

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posted @ Thu, Feb 27, 2025 1:58:50 pm EST from 188.243.183.110

Craig> I'm definitely guilty of that too. When Todd covered "The Reckoning" I responded with a short bit using some of the lyrics with "send in the clones" substituted. Though I will mention that Glynis Johns' cover of that song is one of my favorite musical numbers.

Not much to say about "Invitation Only," while this bump on the road in Goliath and Elisa's relationship is interesting in that it reveals Elisa would like children one day, it's still only a bump.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 11:00:05 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

Heh, animation writers--and TV writers in general--LOVE that "send in the clones" pun. I have to imagine there's a whole generation of viewers who are more familiar with the pun than with the actual Sondheim song. I think DuckTales got there first ("Send in the Clones" was the very first episode to air in the regular timeslot following the series premiere movie in September 1987), but Star Trek: The Next Generation made the pun a couple of years later (in the episode "Up the Long Ladder"). Austin Powers and Pokemon used it in 1999, and it was also an episode title on Johnny Bravo, Xena: Warrior Princess, The Simpsons, and Jimmy Neutron.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 7:58:25 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

I'd noticed as well that Castaway winds up addressing Vinnie by his name, despite his "Quarrymen must be anonymous". I'd certainly like to know which of the differences between this comic and the television episode were in the original script that got changed by the "Goliath Chronicles" production team (we know that the news broadcast opening and closing the episode were among them), and which were specifically created for the comic (adding various names into the dialogue and Goliath giving a recap of his clan's troubles definitely felt like the latter).

I reread "Invitation Only" today. This chapter has a number of major elements. First, it's the first Disney-produced "Gargoyles" story (or the start of one) since the "Goliath Chronicles" ended. It has the start-up of the Double Date story, which Greg Weisman shared with the fandom back in 1997 (I believe) - more about that in a bit. And it sees the introduction of Shari/Shahrazad (though she won't receive even her first name until the end of Chapter Five), one of the most colorful and memorable "Gargoyles" characters introduced in the comics.

The radio broadcast about the gargoyles at the start definitely shows that the public still see the gargoyles as just weird animals - most likely in the category of cryptids, like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster - rather than sentient beings. (And at the very end of the chapter, we'll see that they were wrong about gargoyles not saying "Trick or treat".)

The Illuminati, getting a mention in "The Journey" for the first time since "Revelations" (something I forgot to mention in my review/commentary), now come to the fore. Martin Hacker visits Matt, Xanatos, and Castaway in turn, and each time says that the Society approves of what they're doing. This definitely cues us to the Illuminati engaging in manipulating, since while Matt and Xanatos's plans for the gargoyles seem reasonably compatible, they definitely aren't compatible with Castaway's. Of course, Matt and Xanatos aren't likely to be comparing notes with Castaway, something that the Society (including Hacker) knows well.

(I think we can safely assume that Hacker was lying about the Illuminati wanting to wipe out the gargoyles, for the same reason that Xanatos wouldn't be trying it - it would be far too wasteful. I've had the occasional suspicion that if the "Goliath Chronicles" *had* used the notion of the Illuminati being behind the Quarrymen, they would have made it an attempt by the Society to wipe out the gargoyles, most likely to keep the gargoyles from interfering in New York crime on account of the Illuminati being "organized crime's silent partner". Even if the Illuminati did find the gargoyles helping to put Tony Dracon and Brod behind bars inconvenient, there are other ways of handling it, less wasteful - I'm reminded of how, in "The Spectacular Spider-Man", Tombstone's purpose in sending super-villains after Spiderman wasn't to get rid of him, but to keep him so busy that the regular criminals could pull off their heists without him interfering, and that strikes me as a much better scheme.)

We also get the introduction of the Illuminati style of secret greetings, though we won't learn the details about it for another couple of chapters (more on that when I get to Chapter Five). I remember much discussion of the significance of "Thirty-six", "Thirty-two".

Greg Weisman mentioned, when he first spoke about the Double Date, that Elisa would have been going out with either Jason Canmore or Officer Morgan, but he hadn't decided which - and I was amused to note that Elisa speaks with both of them in this chapter, as part of the process that leads to her break-up with Goliath. I thought from very early on that Officer Morgan seemed like the better candidate (and the one whom we get next chapter, of course). Part of it was that, between his injuries and his legal status, Jason wouldn't have made an appropriate date for Elisa, but the really big reason was the voice actor angle (which feels all the more appropriate to bring up in light of much of the discussion here). Goliath would be going out with Delilah, who shares Elisa's voice actor of Salli Richardson. If Elisa went out with Officer Morgan, then Keith David would be voicing both of the males in the Double Date, completing the symmetry. (Ironically, we got the story in comics format, meaning that the voice actors were no longer part of the equation, except in the reader's imagination.)

We get a bit of a "bait and switch" moment when Elisa brings up that Goliath's options for "someone other than her" are limited - and we then cut to Demona retrieving the crystal powering the Praying Gargoyle from St. Damien's (the one "present-day appearance" she makes in "Clan-Building"; we won't see what she's up to after that until Chapter Seven of "Here In Manhattan"). Of course, the person whom Elisa's talking about is Delilah (and I think it was obvious to everyone - except maybe the most fanatical of Demona-apologists) that Goliath and Demona would never be a couple again. Certainly not this soon after Goliath had foiled Demona's genocide scheme.

Talon's cry of "Send in the Clones" is a bit amusing, given that Sevarius had said the same thing in "Genesis Undone". (I'll confess that I think the line suits Sevarius and his over-the-top style better.)

We get our first hint about a crucial feature of Shari/Shahrazad's, when she remarks that she's "partial to long stories". And which leads into Al's recap about the origins of the Mutates and the Clones, as a way of helping newcomers (or people whose memories of "Gargoyles" were a bit hazy) understand the situation. I'll have more to say about that another time, though.

And Brooklyn, yet again, fails to find love - this time because Goliath asks Delilah out first. Small wonder that he's looking sour about the whole thing (though only two chapters later, he'll have reason to feel even more exasperated about it....).

Castaway shows some appropriate caution in his "no hammers" policy (though he'll be throwing it away just one Halloween later). I doubt he's seeing what happened with Vinnie as a warning (the man clearly shares Demona's outlook of "None of this was my fault" - though I wouldn't recommend telling him that he has anything in common with her), but he recognizes that the Quarrymen can't afford to alienate the public or start seeming like a bigger threat to safety than the gargoyles are.

FAVORITE LINES.

GOLIATH: Elisa, I know you have been reluctant to have this conversation.

ELISA: Because I don't want to hurt you.

GOLIATH: But our feelings for each other....

ELISA: Are not enough. My life as a cop... as a gargoyle-loving cop... I wouldn't trade it for the world, but - I want... I need... balance... normalcy. Not now, maybe not even soon, but someday - I want a house. A yard. Picnics on Sunday afternoons. Goliath, I want children. I want things I can't have with you.

{Goliath and Elisa, side by side at the start of this conversation, are now at opposite ends of the tower-top.}


THAILOG: Trick or treat?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 7:14:47 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Antiyonder > That line about Quarrymen remaining anonymous was new to the comic. I wonder if that was in the original TV script and was cut by the Goliath Chronicles producers, or if it was something new Greg thought of to add for the SLG comic for some additional hypocrisy.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 5:58:31 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

Not to mention Castaway stating anonymity to be necessary, but outing Vinnie. I think John is a hypocrite.:-O
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 5:26:48 pm EST from 107.77.205.54

Whoops, thought I had posted on the last issue. Turns out I didn't get around to it.

This is a strong issue and its strength lies on the parallel between John and Vinnie. When recruiting followers in a crusade against minorities or in some form of bigotry, the one in charge usually looks for those who have a grievance against them. The legitimacy of it or whether it exists or is an exaggeration doesn't matter, just as long as the aggrieved party remains angry and keeps that anger going.

Vinnie, poor schmo that he is, actually does have legitimate reasons to be aggrieved against the gargoyles. But those reasons are circumstantial and more importantly Vinnie knows right from wrong. He gets swept into the rhetoric of Castaway but ultimately never loses that sense of morality because even in the cacophony of loud and angry voices, and even with his lone, quiet voice not changing anything. He still has the strength and courage to say "This isn't right."

It's not for nothing that Castaway reminds his followers that Quarrymen must be anonymous, we've unfortunately found out in the internet age that bigotry and naked hatred thrives through anonymity. But crucially despite their proclamations of courage and standing up against "monsters" they still hide away from culpability or the consequences of their actions. John's comments towards Elisa just goes to show that he knows people will get caught in the crossfire of his crusade and he's already decided that they're an acceptable loss.

For all their talk about strength and protecting, they work the hardest to avoid scrutiny.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 5:06:52 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

Craig> There is also LOS-307 from Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur who is referred to as Non-Binary.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 2:39:46 pm EST from 107.77.205.54

CRAIG> Thank you so much for that information. It'll be useful for the wiki.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 1:50:31 pm EST from 67.189.200.184

Bishansky > Good point. Along those same lines, if there's one thing I appreciate about The Goliath Chronicles, it's that they really listed every minor role in the end credits. I sort of wish the first two seasons had done that...but it does lead to the credits looking kind of cluttered, so I can understand why one might want to stick to just highlighting 1-2 roles per actor.

Just from my own personal notes, to respond to a few things you mentioned: Chavez is credited on a couple of episodes where she doesn't appear. "The Journey" obviously, but also "Seeing Isn't Believing" (Ticotin does play a police dispatcher in that episode, but is credited separately for that role, so presumably it's not Chavez). And as you allude to, Chavez made a voice-only appearance in "Ransom" (over a police radio, I think, although I didn't make specific note of that). Technically, even her appearance in "For It May Come True" is part of Titania's illusion, so the real Chavez never actually appears onscreen in Goliath Chronicles.

Also, E.G. Daily is credited as Alex in "Runaways" even though Alex doesn't appear, so potentially another cut scene.

In addition to "Genesis Undone," Xanatos also does not appear in "Dying of the Light" despite being credited. Also, in "Dying of the Light," Frakes is credited as the character "Dave," but it's actually Rob Paulsen playing that role. That episode also fails to credit Tress MacNeille despite her playing two major roles (Dr. Carrie Benjamin, and the interspecies tolerance woman Mary), so that episode's credits are a bit of a mess.

Also, in "Genesis Undone," Salli Richardson is credited as Elisa, but Elisa doesn't appear. Salli does play Delilah, though.

Oh, and Jim Cummings's credit as "Male Computer" that you mentioned was a typo in the credits; it should have said "Male Commuter." Although I do like the idea of specifying the gender of a computer. :)
Craig
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 1:41:48 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

Greg B: I've definitely seen the TGC episodes more than most folks in here (as I've mentioned before, I grew up watching the Toon Disney reruns religiously, which ran 77 episodes continuously for many years...including TGC but excluding "Deadly Force").

Memories are a bit more fuzzy now since I haven't generally included them in my adult-age rewatches - minus once each when they first hit Disney+, as my roommate wanted to see them for completionism's sake - but I'm 90% sure there's a scene in "...For It May Come True" where Chavez is organizing an NYPD anti-gargoyle strike team and Elisa volunteers in what's supposed to be a big shock moment.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"You said everything has a name. I'll name this ability of mine too. 'Stone Free.' Because I'll become free of this ocean of stone." - Jolyne Cujoh
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 1:13:27 pm EST from 76.173.137.179

CRAIG> TGC was definitely made on the cheaper side compared to the canonical first two seasons. But if there's one area they didn't seem to cut the budget on, it was the acting.

For GargWiki purposes, we went through the end credits of each episode to add the cast to the episode pages. And we did the same for TGC. For some episodes, an entirely new actor was brought in for, essentially bit parts.

For example, from "Angels In the Night":

Ashley Laurence: Housewife, Woman, Female Commuter
Jim Cummings: Male Computer 1, Cop 1, Business Man

These aren't even named characters. Now, I have little to no memory of the episode, I don't remember if those were more or less than one or two line characters. But I wonder if Salli or Brigitte or Tress could have done those extra voices. Or if any of the regular male cast members could have done with Jim was brought in to do. BTW, I am not complaining that actors were brought in for parts like this at all. I'm actually quite glad. Especially since the budget seems to have been slashed on most other aspects of the production.

Similarly, Jonathan Frakes was credited as Xanatos in "Genesis Undone" (another I haven't seen since at least 1997) and I don't recall Xanatos appearing in the episode, so he must have been recorded and cut.

Rachel Ticotin has a few appearances as Chavez credited in episodes I don't recall Chavez appearing in... but nearly thirty year old memories here. I do, however, recall when watching "For It May Come True" perking up for a moment and saying "hey, it's Chavez, haven't seen her in a while". But it may have been a case of Chavez's voice over the police radio. I dunno.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 12:41:56 pm EST from 67.189.200.184

Bishansky > Thanks for clarifying. I'm glad it was at least done out of necessity and not cheapness.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 11:10:35 am EST from 69.118.30.106

CRAIG> From what I understand, Marina Sirtis was unavailable for the recording of "The Journey". I don't believe it was cost-cutting as, and again I might be mistaken, but I believe all the voice actors on "Gargoyles" were paid scale.

Yes, I found it: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=5619
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 8:08:57 am EST from 67.189.200.184

I'm glad that the TV version of "The Journey" exists, if only to hear the actors' voices saying the lines. It is too bad that they recast Margot and robbed the scene of that casting irony. Tress is a legend of course, but I can't help hearing Lindsey Naegle from The Simpsons in those Nightwatch scenes. I was wondering if maybe Sirtis was unavailable due to filming First Contact, but that doesn't make sense since Frakes directed the thing and still appeared regularly on Goliath Chronicles. I'm guessing it was purely a cost-cutting thing, which sucks.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 7:23:13 am EST from 69.118.30.106

Todd Jensen> "One of the highlights of the debate was the contrast between Margot's remarks about the gargoyles and the truth. I right away (when I first saw "The Journey" on television) caught the contrast between Margot claiming that the gargoyles are endangering the children"

Fitting as Marina Sirtis also voiced her even if not in the televised version. Which is the concern Demona expressed not too long ago in The Reckoning.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Feb 26, 2025 12:19:40 am EST from 68.119.3.1

CRAIG AND MATTHEW - Thanks for your comments. "Irony" maybe wasn't the best word for discussing Castaway using "alone" in his speech; I was thinking about its role in "City of Stone Part Four".

Read Chapter Two, "The Journey" today, to conclude the first post-"Hunter's Moon" story.

This chapter is divided between two threads, linked by the response to the gargoyles becoming public knowledge: Castaway's pursuit of Goliath and Elisa, and the "Nightwatch" broadcast where Macbeth and Margot Yale (now built up from just the female member of the yuppie couple, given a name and occupation) are debating what approach to take towards the gargoyles, with Travis Marshall mediating and Hudson watching (the chapter opens with Hudson turning on the television set to watch "Nightwatch", continuing the television broadcast as a sort of framing device). We also get glimpses of what the rest of the clan are doing, though I saw that as part of the debate because of the contrast it provided (see below).

One of the highlights of the debate was the contrast between Margot's remarks about the gargoyles and the truth. I right away (when I first saw "The Journey" on television) caught the contrast between Margot claiming that the gargoyles are endangering the children (an element continued from the first chapter, as I brought up in my review of it, and as Matthew also brought up) and Bronx and Lexington playing with Alex, or her dismissal that the gargoyles have human-level thoughts and emotions with the library scene. (In the course of which, we see that Broadway and Angela have indeed become a couple - and that Brooklyn's feeling left out of things, again.) One I only picked up on recently was when Margot was talking about the gargoyles being "the most dangerous creatures on the face of the Earth" - and we then switch to the Quarrymen's helicopter forcing Goliath down.

(This last part reminded me of a scene in a weird re-imagining of Sherlock Holmes called "Warlock Holmes" by James Dunning, which depicted Holmes as a not-too-bright wizard, and made Inspectors Lestrade and Gregson a vampire and an ogre respectively, who'd joined Scotland Yard. When Dr. Watson is at first taken aback about such beings actually existing and even shows some fear of them, Lestrade points out that there are barely any mythical creatures like vampires and ogres in London - or anywhere else - while humans are everywhere and in control, indicating that the humans are far more formidable than legendary monsters. Similarly, for all humanity's fear of gargoyles, the humans are running the planet, with gargoyles reduced to just a few clans, nearly all in hiding - raising the question of who really ought to be afraid of whom.)

I might add that I was, from the start, delighted to see Macbeth standing up for the gargoyles, as part of my having gotten to like him more after learning his backstory in "City of Stone". (Pity that they switched Margot's voice actor in the television version; there'd have been room for a bit of a casting gag in Macbeth arguing with someone voiced by Marina Sirtis.)

The big highlight of the action plot was Vinnie's role. In "Vendettas", he'd seemed simply comic relief (even if he did - ultimately - succeed in getting back at Goliath). Now he plays a very impressive serious role, when he stands up to Castaway and refuses to let him kill Goliath and Elisa, particularly as he says "This isn't right" - making a few simple words truly feel memorable. It takes a lot to stand up to a madman armed with an electrified hammer like that; how many of us would have dared do it, I wonder?

(And, given that Greg's mentioned that he thinks he's closer to Vinnie in nature than the rest of the cast - and even wrote Vinnie's departure for Japan as a parallel to his own departure from Disney - I think it's amusing that Goliath's puzzled over who that guy is.)

One of the added lines in the comic version is Castaway's cry "Quarrymen must be anonymous!" - and I can certainly see why he'd take that approach. It makes the organization more menacing it you don't know who's wearing one of those hoods. While, for the most part, "The Goliath Chronicles" didn't handle the Quarrymen that well - making them more like generic bad guys who might just as well have been the local crooks trying to get rid of the gargoyles in revenge for being constantly foiled by them (it would have certainly better explained their schemes depending on knowing that the gargoyles were protectors rather than evil monsters) - there were a couple of moments (in "The Dying of the Light" with the hospital worker and "Angels in the Night" with Margot's assistant Maxwell being revealed as Quarrymen) that showed how dangerous it could be with regular people in the Quarrymen - a notion of "anyone could be one". (Going back to Sherlock Holmes re-imaginings - I've also read a Holmes-inspired manga series about a young niece of Sherlock Holmes - named Christie, by the way; a reference to Dame Agatha? - who helps him with many of his cases, often based on the original stories but revised to include her. One of these was "The Five Orange Pips" where Holmes' client was being targeted by the Ku Klux Klan (his uncle had stolen information about the Klan); the manga added a sub-plot where one of Christie's maids was from the South, and had a flashback where the maid's parents were killed by the Klan after they opened a school to teach ex-slave children; the maid returns from visiting friends to find out about their deaths and the local sheriff is comforting her. Then she investigates the Klan, eavesdrops on one of their meetings - and discovers that the same seemingly-kindly sheriff is one of them.)

Goliath's speech at the end to Elisa has been occasionally compared to the Tick's ending monologues, but I thought it made some good points - particularly Goliath's remark about how he had been hoping for a "final destination" for the clan but recognized that that's not how things work; I think it matched the fact that "Gargoyles" was designed to be open-ended, without a built-in series finale (except maybe for "The Goliath Chronicles", which did aim for "peace with humans" as the goal, a goal which constantly had to be put off until the last episode as a result; the new production team really ought to have paid more attention to that speech).


FAVORITE LINES.


MARGOT: I've seen these beasts close up! They're monsters - the most dangerous creatures on the face of the Earth!

{Switch to the Quarryman helicopter shooting at Goliath and Elisa.}


MACBETH: The gargoyles are not a danger to us unless we make ourselves a danger to them.

MARGOT: We can only be sure of that after they've all been apprehended. We can't take any chances. Our children are not safe!

{Cut to Bronx creeping up behind Alex - then licking him, TO Alex's delight.}


MARGOT: In captivity, they can be studied, protected, fed.

MACBETH: All the comforts, as long as they don't value their freedom!

MARGOT: Surely Mr. Macduff isn't going to pretend that these creatures have human thoughts and emotions. They're beasts, animals.

{Switch to Broadway and Angela in the library.}

BROADWAY (reading from Shakespeare): "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun!"

{He closes the book.}

BROADWAY: Ah, how am I supposed to concentrate on my reading lesson, when Goliath is missing?

ANGELA: He's not missing, Broadway. He just hasn't come home yet.

BROADWAY: Angela, you know you don't have to act brave around me.

ANGELA: I just don't understand why the city hates us so! Humans raised me. There's no reason we can't all live in harmony!

BROADWAY: Someday we will.

ANGELA: Do you really believe that?

BROADWAY: I know it.

{They kiss. Brooklyn, entering the library, sees them kiss.}

BROOKLYN: "Parting is such sweet sorrow."


VINNIE: I think he's learned his lesson.

CASTAWAY: This is war, Vinnie. I don't teach lessons, and I don't take prisoners.

VINNIE (indicating an unconscious Elisa): Well, what about her?

CASTAWAY: She chose to abandon humanity for these monsters. She can share their fate!

VINNIE: No, this isn't right.

CASTAWAY: Careful, Vinnie. In war, no one suffers more than the -

VINNIE: It's just not right.

CASTAWAY: Traitor!


CASTAWAY: I won't be defeated by the likes of you!

GOLIATH: Brave words, for a man who hides his face behind a hood.


ELISA: Uh, Goliath, who was that guy?

GOLIATH: Honestly, I was never quite sure.


GOLIATH: I have been... frustrated. Waiting for my clan to arrive at some kind of final destination. But life is about the discoveries made on the journey itself. And though the road has been hard, I have no regrets about the path we have chosen.

ELISA: Funny, I feel the exact same way.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Feb 25, 2025 7:27:32 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Players can compete at a greater level as they raise their Basketball Stars' ability. A player performs better in matches the more investments they make in their abilities. This satisfying mechanism keeps gamers interested and driven to raise their performance.
basketball stars - [roycarlson56 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 24, 2025 9:47:34 pm EST from 193.19.205.96

Good coverage, Todd. Switching mediums can indeed be quite difficult, as you pointed out sound is now dependent on the reader's imagination. Action goes from fully animated to just a few key poses in a panel. And there's the matter of how comics work in terms of what kind of story you can depict and for how long. You can tell quite a bit in 22 minutes of animation but there are teams helping to make that story work. Comics can be a strain on the artists, inkers, etc. with just 15 pages. Plus, there's the fact that the comic is meant to continue the whole of the show and all the narrative beats. Back in the day when Young Justice had their own tie-in comics some of them were smaller in scope, meant to fill-in bits and pieces while the show did the heavy lifting.

Castaway's recruitment methods are straight out of the cult of personality playbook. Appeal to a vague sense of familiarity and security and then point to something that you claim threatens that. I should point out that there's no much ironic about Castaway emphasizing the term "alone" in his speech. A lot of political extremists in today's American politics are disaffected and lonely young men whose sense of solidarity comes from attacking the "other." Heck, the old Bogart film "Black Legion" does a great job depicting how ordinary, if just a little disenfranchised people can get drawn into radical, even murderous groups.

Another thing I should point out, and something you mentioned, is the "Won't someone please think of the children?!" bit of radicalization. The mother is scared out of her mind that the "other" will come for Billy and Susan and yet they would befriend a gargoyle just a year later. It's a good reminder that those who would attack and vilify others under the notion of protecting children also don't want those children to voice their own position in the matter. Another case that we're unfortunately seeing in today's politics. But it also shows how things have changed, with the expansion of social media and public voices, children's voices have also been given more chances. Something Greg would actually explore in the third season of Young Justice.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Feb 24, 2025 8:58:10 pm EST from 135.180.3.149

Todd > Great analysis of the ironies of Castaway's fear-mongering spiel.

I don't blame you for not noticing the Hunter-scratches on Castaway's armor in the TV version: because they were colored yellow and didn't really look like scratch-marks! They were just sort of three yellowish streaks on top of the "Q," sort of making his Quarryman logo look like a comet. Emblematic of the lack of care put in by the Nelvana team.

I can't remember if I made the connection to Jon Canmore right away...I think I may have, based on the name and the blond hair. Certainly, whatever episode Scott Cleverdon returned to the role, that definitely clued me in, since I read the credits.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Feb 24, 2025 8:42:41 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

Reread Chapter One of "Gargoyles: Clan-Building", "Nightwatch", today, starting on the comics.

It feels different, of course, switching from the animated series to the comics. For a start, the music and voice acting are gone, except in the reader's imagination; reading a series of panels is also different from watching animation on the television screen. But the story continues to be good, fortunately.

I noted the differences between the television episode (which I haven't seen since "The Goliath Chronicles" aired on ABC Saturday mornings, of course) and the comics adaptation - stemming, ultimately, from the changes that were made to Greg Weisman's script for "The Journey" (though we also get in a few bits of exposition thanks to the comic coming out a few years after "Gargoyles" ended on television - particularly Goliath's recalling the clan's story at Elisa's apartment - complete with some echoes of the opening narration from Season Two.) I particularly liked Travis Marshall's news broadcast being a framing device at the start (and end, as we'll see when I get to Chapter Two). (It reminded me of a television commercial for "The Goliath Chronicles" that I once saw done in the format of a news report by Travis Marshall, concluding with something along the lines of "While the controversy [about the gargoyles] continues, one thing is certain" - the screen shows the gargoyles waking from their stone sleep, labeled "Recorded earlier", fragments of stone skin flying everywhere - "someone's going to have to clean up the mess". For that matter, I've read that there was an episode of "Babylon 5" done in the format of a news broadcast, though I didn't get to see it.)

"Hunter's Moon" ended on a seemingly upbeat note, with the focus in the last scene on what was going well for the clan; they're back in the castle, Xanatos is apparently no longer their enemy, Elisa finally kissed Goliath. The fact that they'd been exposed to the world, and in a way that alarmed the public, and that that problem wasn't resolved, was downplayed (no mention was made of the public response once Xanatos rescues the clan at St. Damien's; the final two scenes, Elisa visiting Jason at the hospital, and the scene at the castle, both ignore it), no doubt in case there wasn't a third season. (I wonder how many of us even remembered that aspect before "The Journey" first aired.) Now, however, we see that the public are still alarmed and uneasy - with the particularly great touch of Brooklyn saying "Welcome home" in a sardonic way, an echo of Elisa's words at the end of "Hunter's Moon", but indicating that things aren't quite so happy for the clan after all.

The chapter opens with New Yorkers being interviewed on the gargoyles. First to speak is Billy and Susan's mother, talking about how worried she is for her children; no one knows it at the time, of course, but a little over a year later, her children will be making friends with a gargoyle. (I wonder if Greg Weisman knew that when he wrote that part, or if it only developed much later on.) The Jogger seems more curious than scared, puzzling over what the gargoyles are (he lists the possibilities of "dinosaurs", "aliens" - repeating Nokkar's faulty assumption - and "demons". "Dinosaurs" seems closest to the truth; the gargoyles could indeed be descended from Mesozoic-era reptiles, though I suspect pterosaurs/pterodactyls rather than dinosaurs proper), and even suggesting that they capture and dissect one to find out. And, of course, Vinnie's still in a bad mood about the gargoyles - though mentioning how he got his revenge (a remark that Castaway will spectacularly misinterpret - not to mention the guy in Japan who saw the broadcast, most likely Taro). Not all that promising a response - but then, the public's still adjusting to the fact that the gargoyles turned out to be real.

Brooklyn's the most uneasy about Xanatos among the clan, though Goliath and Hudson agree that at least he's not likely to smash them in their sleep, as too wasteful. When Goliath asks him "Where would you suggest we go?", I couldn't help thinking that it's not surprising that they don't actually go anywhere with that question. Doing a repeat of "It's not safe for you here" from Season One would have felt "been done".

We get another "lost moment" from the original script; Art shooting at Goliath. It presumably got dropped from the television episode as too violent, but I think it was a nice touch. I thought it important that much of the hostility towards the gargoyles would be coming from ordinary citizens (more about that later) - not to mention one of Goliath's rare comedy moments at the end.

I remember, the first time I saw "The Journey", immediately suspecting that Castaway had some connection to the Canmores (though I don't recall whether I thought he might be Jon or not). His name was what did that; I'd noted that the Canmores' aliases had all started with hard C's, so when we had a new adversary called "Castaway", also starting with a hard C, I immediately thought of them. (I missed the other clue, though; the red scratches of the Hunter beneath his Quarryman badge.)

Castaway's recruitment speech is a particularly great moment in the story. What strikes me is the ironies in it. Castaway repeatedly uses the word "alone"; remember where that word played a major role before. He talks about his listeners having to cope with such problems as violence and racism - while setting up an organization making use of those same qualities. And he brings up two specific fears that his audience would have about the gargoyles. First, that the gargoyles would attack them in their sleep; remember that gargoyles have often been attacked in *their* sleep (the Wyvern Massacre in particular, but we also saw Duncan doing it in "Hunter's Moon Part Three" and will see Constantine doing it later in "Clan-Building"). And then that the gargoyles might abduct their children; remember how Demona saw Princess Katharine and the Magus taking the eggs into their care as kidnapping - and, more significantly, Egwardo being kidnapped by humans (at Demona's command). (Of course, the "steal your children away" is an old fear directed towards the other. There's the legends about faerie-folk kidnapping human babies and replacing them with their own young as changelings - not to mention Oberon making such an attempt in "The Gathering", minus a changeling substitute, of course. And anti-Semitists have regularly accused Jews of similar acts, for that matter.)

Goliath's recounting of the clan's past includes a panel where we see Hakon about to smash a gargoyle in stone sleep; this one looks like "Othello'. It reminds me of my speculation that Greg Weisman might feel tempted to change that scene in "Awakening Part One" to have Hakon smashing, not a generic gargoyle as in the actual episode, but "Othello" - this strikes me as a better approach than altering the television episode a la George Lucas making those changes to the original "Star Wars" movie.

In my sillier moments, when Matt tells Captain Chavez that there've been reports about "vandalized stone statues" - I've wondered how long before someone who owns a few gargoyle statues smashes them, making it look like frightened New Yorkers or the Quarrymen did it - after getting those same statues insured....

We end with the cliffhanger of Goliath getting shot in the wing while he and Elisa are being pursued - and Travis Marshall saying "Welcome back", continuing the framing element.


FAVORITE LINES.

TRAVIS MARSHALL: Mr. Xanatos could not be reached for comment - .

HUDSON (switching the set off): And when ye are reached, what will your comment be?

XANATOS: I'll think of something. I always do.

BROOKLYN (to Goliath): Welcome home.


ART: I think I got him... or scared him off, at least.

GOLIATH: Hardly. Gargoyles do not scare easily. But since we are not your enemy, you have nothing to be frightened of either. Do we understand each other?

{As he speaks, he grabs Art's shotgun and starts twisting it.}

ART: Uh, yes, sir.

GOLIATH: Good. Then you may keep your weapon.

{The said weapon is now twisted into a spiral shape, no longer any use for opening fire on gargoyles or anything else.}


CASTAWAY: I know that you are all reasonable people. But you do not live in a reasonable world. Violence, racism, injustice - you struggle with the world's problems and wind up feeling so alone.... Now, something alien and horrible has entered your world....

{He unveils a monstrous gargoyle-like statue.}

CASTAWAY: Gargoyles! Are you afraid of this monster? Well, for once, you are not alone.


CASTAWAY: Are you afraid these creatures will attack you while you sleep?

PERSON IN THE CROWD: Yes.

BILLY AND SUSAN'S MOTHER: I am....

VINNIE: Maybe a little....

CASTAWAY: You are not alone in that fear! Are you afraid they will steal your children away?

PEOPLE IN THE CROWD (including Billy and Susan's mother): Yes.

VINNIE: Well, I don't got kids, but - .

CASTAWAY: You are not alone! Do you believe these monsters must be stopped?

PEOPLE IN THE CROWD: Yes!

CASTAWAY: You are not alone!

{He dons a Quarryman hood.}

CASTAWAY: Join us. Join the Quarrymen.


CASTAWAY: Take a hood. Take a hammer. You are Quarrymen now!

PEOPLE IN THE CROWD: They gotta be stopped! Gimme one of those hammers! Toss me a hood! Move! I want one!

{Castaway switches on his hammer.}

CASTAWAY: And I promise, you will never be alone again!

{He smashes the gargoyle statue.}


CASTAWAY: Vinnie! I'm glad you're here. We've had a sighting, and I'd like a man by my side who's hunted these beasts before.

VINNIE: Yeah, about that. I did hunt one down, but when I caught it, all I did was hit it with a banana cream pie. I'm not sure all this hammer stuff is necessary.

CASTAWAY: Come along, Vinnie. I'm sure you'll see the necessity.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Feb 24, 2025 7:52:27 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Second! (I'm seeing a pattern these last few weeks!)
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Mon, Feb 24, 2025 8:28:57 am EST from 204.184.178.1

First.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Feb 24, 2025 7:46:46 am EST from 68.99.93.213