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Gargoyles

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Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending March 22, 2004

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JJ Gregarius - <Along the way, the TimeDancer would also uncover many intriging aspects of the Gargoyle universe that the other spin-offs can't handle without being awkward.> I don't believe in using Timedancer as a means of establishing history. <its about how a scrawny, moody, immature gargoyle apparently got cast as one of Earth's greatest behind-the-scenes heroes> Nor do I want Brooklyn to have a minor (or major) role in practically every major event in history. Instead, I see Brooklyn having adventures where no single adventure effects anything big (aside from transporting Mary & Finella to the 1970s). <As for the constantly changing setting, if Quantum Leap can do it, why can't TimeDancer?> Have you ever read TGS's take on Timedancer? I really despise the idea of Brooklyn showing up and 5 seconds (or minutes) later leaving.


DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:37:24 PM
IP: 67.14.195.35

138 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!
Patrick - [<-- Allez-vous au le Gathering!]
Sunday, March 21, 2004 08:14:12 PM
IP: 65.43.167.178

My preferred order of spin-offs:
TimeDancer
G. 2198 (if the science fiction aspects can be handled with respect)
Dark Ages
Bad Guys (preferably with a different title, but beggars can't be choosers.)
Pendragon(I'd rather visit Camelot with TimeDancer, or visit a New Camelot.... well, perhaps I shouldn't say.... :P)
New Olympians (Better to think of this as a totally unique series, IMHO)

Re: TimeDancer>>
Matt, TimeDancer would not use the same story-telling techniques as Gargoyles, but I don't think that guarantees its doom. TimeDancer would be more of an anthology series; that is one of the reasons it is my favorite spin-off idea. This style requires strong individual stories that tie together on a fundamental level. To me, this is preferable than a long, ongoing "epic" that loses you if you have to missing seeing a chunk of it, or only stumble upon it midway through its run.

As for knowing the conclusion, I think the series should be up-front about the fact that Brooklyn will return, discovering this within the first few eps (or the first season, at least). The suspense in this series isn't about whether/when Brooklyn will go home, its about how a scrawny, moody, immature gargoyle apparently got cast as one of Earth's greatest behind-the-scenes heroes. To paraphrase a movie, have the gods gone mad?

This contradiction is pregnant with suspense, which should be carefully nurtured through the TimeDancer's many adventures. Along the way, the TimeDancer would also uncover many intriging aspects of the Gargoyle universe that the other spin-offs can't handle without being awkward*. For mere curiosities sake, this makes TimeDancer my favorite.

As for the constantly changing setting, if Quantum Leap can do it, why can't TimeDancer?

*-- I'm wondering if this train of thought is more a reaction to the coincidence-ridden plot of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles than to the plot of Gargoyles, where there are no real "coincidences."

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Sunday, March 21, 2004 06:19:16 PM
IP: 65.244.170.163

Alex Garg> I 've been here for a long time (I had a different nick name back then) and I think I usurped my Icon from someone... Don't worry about it.

Vash didn't mean for you to stop using it... I thnk he was jsut remenicing. ... ... ... is that how you even spell it?

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaSunday, March 21, 2004 01:16:57 PM
IP: 137.186.134.59

Airwalker> "Also there is a major difference between TIMEDANCER and DARK AGES - aside from knowing that Brooklyn, Katana, and their kids return to the present, we know absolutely nothing else about anything and anyone in the series. Anything can happen."
sure, but thats not a difference of the two spin-offs, thats a similarity. we know the general cast of Dark Ages, just as we know the general cast of Timedancer, and in both series' we know how it'll end. Dark Ages ends at Awakening, Timedancer ends with Brook and family getting home.
i would love to see Timedancer made, but my biggest worry about it is that because Brook will be jumping around huge time frames, it will be difficult to establish and develop minor characters, and that was one Gargoyles' greatest strengths. i know a lot of you are huge Brooklyn fans, and i love him too, but don't let that cloud your judgement. to us fans, Timedancer would be a thrill, but to new fans, it would be a whole series of World Tour episodes. would you have become a fan of Gargoyles if the whole series started and ended with the World Tour?

matt
Sunday, March 21, 2004 08:45:51 AM
IP: 207.230.48.68

Airwalker<I have a hard time imagining for example that in 200 years the world might be unified under a UN government>

In our world I'd agree however in the gargoyles world there are other factors to figure in such as the Illuminati, Coyote-X, King Arthur and his New Camelot, Queen Mab, the Gargoyles, the New Olympians and Alexander Xanatos who might have all played all factor in the world being put under the UN.

<or that there wouldn't be any wars going on somewhere on the globe.>

I'd think that wars would still be present why else would there be gargoyle peacekeepers in the UN?

<In fact it could be argued that a Space Spawn conquest is the first step on the road to unifying the world.)>

I think that Greg probably wanted to get away from the cliche used in so many science fiction series like Trek of aliens being the reason that humanity unites under one world government, which I for one find overused and hardly plausible for a long term unification.

DPH<New Olympians, imho, would be the most boring of spinoffs. Unless you keep moving characters forward, after a while, there's only so far that you can bring things>

There's a whole load of stuff you could do with New Olympians. Stuff on the global and international scale(wars, coups), lowkey stuff and even flashbacks . If you want to see how it could be played off then take a look at back issues of Chris Priest's Black Panther comic (ironically another Kirby creation).

Frankly I don't understand how people could be so turned off towards the spinoff by one episode. Most of the major players aside from Boreas, Talos, Taurus and Ekidna haven't even been introduced especially the faction that wants humans to worship them again.

Question
Sunday, March 21, 2004 03:31:51 AM
IP: 144.92.164.199

****A movie projector floats into the Room, and begins projecting its film onto a screen that has materialized in the air. Blaise's face beams out from this bit of light and celluloid.**** Hey all! For the past few weeks I've managed to find somewhat steady work as a background performer for various shows. It's not much (especially since I'm not in any of the union's yet) but it's a bit of a start in my chosen profession.

VERTIGO1> Actually, the episodes on ABC Family are indeed edited like Toon Disney.
In the episode in question, "The Thrill of the Hunt" only one bit was edited out, and it was the same for both stations--when the Pack are scaling the wall of the building in the third act, TD and ABC Fam edit out the part where Dingo reaches the top, cries out in fear and shoots off the head of a stone gargoyle. I always thought that edit was extremely silly, myself.
The real test will come tomorrow when "Deadly Force" is supposed to air. If it does, then that's at least one way in which ABC Family is superior to Toon Disney.

SPINOFFS IN ORDER OF PREFERANCE> Mine's a relatively simple list:
*"Timedancer"--It's centered on Brooklyn, he (finally) gets the girl, and we may get even more insight into the GARGOYLES universe.
*"Gargoyles 2198"--Brooklyn's in this one, too, and there are more than a few characters and concepts that I am REALLY interested in (Coyote X, for example).
*"Bad Guys"--I like the concept, the characters, the potential, and I feel like this show could really be a lot of fun.
*"The New Olympians"--I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm pretty interested in this one, too. Mostly because I love Sphinx's design (another cat-girl with wings!), but I also love the idea of N.O. factions (especially Jove's "They should worship us as gods again" group). Even Xanatos is going to step in on the action. And Proteus...from the way Greg talks about him (the closest thing to "pure evil incarnate") I am really interested in this character.
*"Dark Ages"--I'd love to see more of their life at Wyvern, especially in regards to the development of certain characters (Iago being chief among them--I want to see his team up with the Archmage). Plus, we'd see Brook as a little kid. :-)
*"Pendragon"--Geez, this looks sad all the way down here at the bottom. The truth is, I'm really interested in seeing this one, as well--I mean, there's Merlin, Duval and the Illuminati (those guys are playing major roles in at least three different spin-offs).
Now, of course I'd like to see more of the main series...and ALL the spin-offs (hey, while it's speculation, why be bound by realistic estimates), but this is how my thoughts pretty much fall out on them.
BTW, did anyone else notice a pattern? Brooklyn and villains seem to be the two things I take most into account with these shows.

Anyhow, that's all I came in to say. Glad to be earning some money from showbusiness, finally. Hopefully, I'll get into SAG or AFTRA by June (though, that is something of a long shot). Ah well, I'll check back again. Until then, farewell. ****Blaise's image seems to skip a bit as the film in the projector starts to come off its track and finally rip. Both projector and screen then burst into flames and vanish.****

Blaise
Sunday, March 21, 2004 01:47:47 AM
IP: 209.178.188.160

Hi Just got an idea for a new Gargoyle series or should i say an improved vison of my old idea, now we know in the original series Dr S made a clone of a Gargoyle and one was created through magic. You knoe the great thing about Sci-Fi is that anything can happen if one knows the science behind it so to speak, the main character is a Human girl between late teens to early twenties who is tranfromed into by Gargoyle.

This series is about this character finding her place, is she Human or Gargoyle.
Vanguard - [conklin@shaw.ca]
Victoria, BC, Canada
Sunday, March 21, 2004 01:34:41 AM
IP: 24.64.223.203

Alex> Aww, I don't mean to imply that your posts aren't worth getting excited over. Keep using it; as I said, JEB doesn't really post here anymore anyways.

Out of curiosity, did anyone else apply for the Wow beta? Kinda bummed I'm not in one of the first 2 phases. Ah well.

Vash
Saturday, March 20, 2004 11:02:36 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

TODD>> No!!! Your just gona have to live with it and your a bad prson for ever bringing that up! If i want that color than its mine because its an opshun so i can have it!!!11!!1

*ahem*

Yeah, sure - no problem. I have a monitor which differentiates colors very nicely, so I often forget how colors don't always tend to go together well, especially for other people. It's never come up here before so, yeah, sorry. So... *scans through color options* does this work for everybody? Good? Bueller?

VASH>> Well, unlike the color scheme, I kinda like the icon. I'm majoring in MassComm with a track in journalism, so I like the connection. But if I'm *really* causing you to get overly excited only to drop you into a disappointed low, or if other people keep getting excited that JEB's posted, I'll reconsider.

If I'm going upset people, I'd rather it be on the content of my posts and not the qualities of them (...of course I'm not setting out to piss people off - it just happens to me...).

Alex Garg
VA, USA
Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:48:40 PM
IP: 216.145.68.130

Todd> Just use your mouse to highlight the text.

Alex> Every time I see your icon, I think you're JEB. =( Wonder what happened to him? I noticed that Dracandros's "Temple of the Trio" is finally gone from his site. *sigh* That was one of the first really cool fan sites.

My preference would be for G2198. Enough new stuff going on to keep the show interesting, with enough old characters/background to feel like the original show.

Vash
Saturday, March 20, 2004 08:50:01 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

ALEX GARG - Um, I hope that you don't mind my saying this, but could you use a lighter color for your comments, please? The dark red that you're using is a little difficult to see against the black background.

The New Olympians spin-off definitely fares the least well among the various candidates - I get the suspicion that it comes mainly from the distinctly one-note tone that the NOs had of practically all being hostile towards humans (except for Talos, who is a robot and so immune to prejudice - though Taurus gets to learn a little by the end).

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, March 20, 2004 06:33:21 PM
IP: 171.75.245.224

AIRWALKER>> [But I'm not so sure that given the state of the world today that there would be a desire on the part of a studio to produce an animated series set in a NYC that strongly resembles the real one. In the 90's when everything was relatively peaceful it was possible to get away with NYC as a battleground; could that be done now?]

Keep in mind that GARGOYLES launched only a year after the 1993 WTC attacks, and we know that the show was in production at the time, and yet that didn't deter the setting of the show. I actually think that having the NYC setting makes more sense, now: two of the main characters and several side characters are NYPD, there's more of an incentive for the gargoyles to defend the city and I think that keeping the show in NYC would be a testament to the perseverance of the city, it might even be healing on some level to see good triumph over evil in a terrorism-affected city. Frankly I don't see a problem, especially now that we're almost three years out from the event. If the terrorist attacks had happened while the show was still running, I could imagine how that might affect things; but I don't see it as a large issue now - not moot, mind you, but not one that would drastically impact the show.

But your ID says that you're from the area, so perhaps you have more authority to speak on the issue than I do.

Preference of spin-offs:
Pendragon
Timedancer
G2198
Dark Ages
New Olympians
Bad Guys

PENDRAGON tops my list because I'm moderately familiar with Arthurian legend and am interested to see Greg's take on it. I also think it runs the least risk of becoming repetitive - obviously there will be some repetition in Arthur's quest to recover his old council and come back to power, but I don't think that the adventures themselves would become "cookie-cutter" in nature.

TIMEDANCER comes next because, what can I say, I'm a Brooklyn fan and would love to follow him around for a while. I am a bit concerned that episodes could become repetitive but I think that could be fixed if Brooklyn doesn't jump around *every* episode. Maybe seasons are strings of mini series' so we can follow plot arcs for a fair length of time before moving on.

G2198 comes next because I'd like to see the post-GARGOYLES world and how the clan's descendents handle the Space Spawn invasion. Plus I have a Sci-Fi preference, so I'm curious on that basic level.

DARK AGES follows, mostly for the reasons I've discussed earlier. I'd still be inclined to watch.

NEW OLYMPIANS comes second to the bottom of my list because, while I like the characters on which it would focus and I liked the episode off which it's based, I don't know if it can work as its own spin-off. I think Greg could weave it into the mainstream GARGOYLES, but he obviously has more ideas spinning around in his head than could fit as side-arcs in another series, so I can understand why he wants to give it a spin-off. Would I watch it, however? Doubtful.

BAD GUYS rounds out the bottom because I like the characters the series would focus on - that's about it.

In keeping score of the spin-offs>>
Just by assigning "scores" to people's spin-off preferences (6 for most preferred, 1 for least), I came up with the following ranks as determined from people's lists of spin-off preferences (the formal lists - I didn't try to make inferences from descriptions alone; and Patrick was disqualified for not mentioning PENDRAGON at all - though I could have inferred that, subconsciously, that means he despises the spin-off; but that would go against the rules of making inferences... am I rambling, yet?):

Most - PENDRAGON 4.67
Timedancer 4.17
G2198/Dark Ages 3.67
Bad Guys 2.83
Least - NEW OLYMPIANS 2.00

I find the G2198/DARK AGES score personally amusing given that I had posted that I thought there was a Sci-Fi/Medieval split, though I recognize that the score is hardly proof of the fact.

Alex Garg
VA, USA
Saturday, March 20, 2004 02:06:28 PM
IP: 216.145.68.130

Going back to Gargoyles on ABC Family, they are DEFINITELY not editing anything out. Just watched it this morning and noticed some parts that got axed on TD. The fight between The Pack and Goliath & Lexington was a bit more violent. This is definitely good news as far as I'm concerned. :)

We really should be writing them e-mails thanking them for airing Gargoyles the way it should be. Granted, we're not exactly their target age group (hell, my own MOTHER likes this show!), but the more positive mail they get about it can only help us later. :)

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:45:41 PM
IP: 207.65.41.86

ALEX GARG - You wrote: [I'm not sure there's as large a market for either Dark Ages or G2198 as there might be for the present Gargoyles timeline.]

I actually think that there is would be a strong market for G2198 at least equal to what there could be for the main series if not stronger. As for DARK AGES I'm still not sure that a medieval set series has long term viability. Its true that GARGOYLES had its roots in medieval times but the bulk of the series was set in modern times. They didn't particularly spend tons of time in the 10th century, only starting there and returning when the story demanded it. Otherwise most adventures took place in the 20th century.

You wrote: [Part of the beauty of the series as we know it is that it blended Medieval/Fantasy themes with SciFi themes in the modern world, so there was a little of something for everybody.]

I enjoyed the modern world angle of the series; it was one of the aspects that drew me into the series. But I'm not so sure that given the state of the world today that there would be a desire on the part of a studio to produce an animated series set in a NYC that strongly resembles the real one. In the 90's when everything was relatively peaceful it was possible to get away with NYC as a battleground; could that be done now?


TODD - You wrote: [Though they did manage to handle the battle scenes in episodes like "City of Stone" effectively without blood or stabbings.]

I agree that in general the series managed to effectively deal with the medieval scenes without much S&P difficulties. But then again the series didn't have to deal with the medieval setting constantly. Its not just dealing with medieval setting but also medieval mindset. 10th century characters (human and gargoyle) should be much less reluctant to kill which in itself opens the series up to a problem. To much restraint on the part of a 10th century character and you effectively have a progressive 20th century character stuck in a 10th century setting.

Plus the ways that they got around problems don't seem to me to be things that would be allowed by current S&P standards. Duncan bursting into flames, Vikings falling to their deaths... I don't think that this much would be allowed today.

You wrote: [Based on the earlier remarks here about "prequelitis" regarding "Dark Ages", I wonder if "Timedancer" could face a similar problem.]

You know, I never really thought of it like that. (Maybe its because my thinking is chronological from the past to the present with DARK AGES being in the past in relation to the original series while TIMEDANCER will be jumping around all over the place.)

Now that you mention it, TIMEDANCER does have the same ultimate problem - we know how its going to end. But on the other hand we only know that because of ASKGREG; the series itself and those who come to it without seeing this site could keep suspense by not revealing that Brooklyn's going to ultimately return to the present. Also there is a major difference between TIMEDANCER and DARK AGES - aside from knowing that Brooklyn, Katana, and their kids return to the present, we know absolutely nothing else about anything and anyone in the series. Anything can happen.

With DARK AGES we know where all of the cast is heading because ultimately its just younger versions of the current GARGOYLES cast. Goliath is going to end up with Demona and the rest of the clan is going to be smashed to dust in 994.

TIMEDANCER is the continuing adventures of Brooklyn while DARK AGES is the past adventures of our existing cast. The chronological way of thinking (even if Brooklyn is jumping around the timestream, we are picking up the story with modern Brooklyn and moving forward with him) makes them a little bit different.


SPIN-OFF ORDER - I would list it like this:
G2198
Timedancer
Bad Guys
Dark Ages
Pendragon
New Olympians

(Of course I'd like to see more of the original series, but the original series isn't a spinoff so I didn't bother putting it on the list. And to be honest, I have zero interest in seeing a NEW OLYMPIANS series.)


MATT - You wrote: [How cool would a series called Tales of the Gargoyles or something be? Every episode could be almost independent of the others except for lots of characters used throughout and of course the same time-line and universe.]

This idea would make for a great anthology comic but I'm not so sure that it would be the best idea for a cartoon series.


PATRICK - You wrote: [The Timedancer spinoff doesn't top my list because it seems to be the one spinoff most prone to becoming repetitive.]

It does have a good chance to become repetitive; the comic EXILES is the clearest, most recent example of this problem. I think that the solution is to put a limit to the series (either at 13/26/39 episodes and thats it) and heavily preplan it. Have specific story arcs (a various timejumps arc, a G2198 arc, and a Japan arc mainly) ready while leaving what could be more repetitive elements out for possible flashbacks in GARGOYLES.


DPH - You wrote: [Gargoyles:2198 might be alright if they keep the blend of science and magic in the futuristic setting. Of course, keeping things realistic might be a problem.]

The themes could remain highly realistic even in a future based series; its just the setting that would really suffer lack of realism. (Although I don't think that by 2198 the Gargoyles Universe is going to be that different; the more advanced technology that the main GARGOYLES has introduced would probably be less of a secret and more mainstream and the architecture might look a little more futuristic but I think that many of the problems that exist today will still exist in the future. I have a hard time imagining for example that in 200 years the world might be unified under a UN government or that there wouldn't be any wars going on somewhere on the globe. In fact it could be argued that a Space Spawn conquest is the first step on the road to unifying the world.)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:56:12 AM
IP: 12.75.153.223

D'oh! That should have been:

139 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!

Patrick
Saturday, March 20, 2004 08:08:19 AM
IP: 65.43.150.4

140 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!
Patrick
Saturday, March 20, 2004 08:07:11 AM
IP: 65.43.150.4

I would judt like to see the show get back on the air period!!

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaSaturday, March 20, 2004 01:31:02 AM
IP: 137.186.134.59

...
Anonymous
Friday, March 19, 2004 10:46:30 PM
IP: 68.79.154.94

I just want to see a new Animaites series as well written and hard hitting as Gargoyles, personally I've got some ideas for cartoon series but now way of getting out of my head and on the small screen.


Vanguard - [conklin@shaw.ca]
Victoria, BC, Canada
Friday, March 19, 2004 08:10:46 PM
IP: 24.64.223.203

I'd like to see the Rory/Molly spinoff, because Greg always forgets about it.
Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
Friday, March 19, 2004 04:58:25 PM
IP: 66.139.49.253

Personally, I say forget the spin-offs for now and finish where Gargoyles left off. There are still quite a few threads left hanging...just like the little hunter brother and "Cold Steel".
Vertigo1
Friday, March 19, 2004 04:35:16 PM
IP: 207.65.41.166

i don't think Greg has ever suggested that spinoff....
matt
Friday, March 19, 2004 04:34:05 PM
IP: 207.230.48.90

Hi what I would like to see is a new Gargoyle series of a new Clan so to speak in a new City prehaps in Canada, lead by a Female Gargoyle she a English one btw. Her new Clan are Gargoyles from around the world, Three are from her original English Clan. One is from Rome the Vactian City, One from France the Sun King's Place main garden, One From Germany, and One from Scotland.


Vanguard - [conklin@shaw.ca]
Victoria, BC, Canada
Friday, March 19, 2004 03:37:16 PM
IP: 24.64.223.203

Sorry, I forgot who suggested it, but I like the miniseries idea (kudos to whoever suggested it). With what Greg's said on these, prehaps a half season (13 eps) with a tight focus could tell the 'whole story', or at least the important parts.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Friday, March 19, 2004 01:50:17 PM
IP: 132.170.40.115

Timedancer is the only I'm most and least inclined to see done. It depends on the budget and the number of episodes per season. If Greg Weisman is involved, I don't believe there will be a problem of "let's tempt fate to get Brooklyn killed". This series would have to have a huge budget just to do the research. Unlike gargoyles series, timedancer wouldn't get to use the same backdrop often. It's essentially the same as the world tour. IMO, to do Timedancer right, you would need a big budget to do 18+ stories per season.

Gargoyles:2198 might be alright if they keep the blend of science and magic in the futuristic setting. Of course, keeping things realistic might be a problem.

I'd like to see both Pendragon and Bad Guys done together like Greg Weisman said because that gives us a clearer picture of the universe. I thoroughly enjoyed the World Tour and I would like to see the Gargoyles universe expanded beyond the NYC.

I'd like to see Dark Ages series done if they can start things at the point where Hudson and Prince Malcom form the alliance. At that point, virtually all the characters are unknown and we can be fairly certain that there are gargoyles who don't surive to the massacre.

New Olympians, imho, would be the most boring of spinoffs. Unless you keep moving characters forward, after a while, there's only so far that you can bring things.


DPH
AR, USA
Friday, March 19, 2004 12:48:11 PM
IP: 161.31.105.198

The Timedancer spinoff doesn't top my list because it seems to be the one spinoff most prone to becoming repetitive. The novelty of time travel wears off pretty fast when it's happening every episode. You need to add some twists to it like "Quantum Leap" did to keep things interesting. And since "Sliders" and "ST: Voyager" have done the "we're lost, but maybe this episode we'll get home" theme to death... Timedance would have to get pretty creative to stay fresh and avoid becoming "Brooklyn and Katana's Excellent Adventure."

140 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!

Patrick - [<-- Allez-vous au le Gathering!]
Friday, March 19, 2004 07:02:07 AM
IP: 65.43.150.4

I have two sets for the spin-offs, personal and Gargoyles related based.

What I would want(1 at top)
Gargoyles-it started it all and I sure want to see how G & E end up(and I like Brooklyn, as well as the other characters).

Timedancer-It's got Brooklyn and it has time travel. Curoius to see what knowledge Brooklyn and company learn and if they can actually use it or if the immutability of time would prevent that...

Pendragon/Bad Guys:Both get to tangle with the Illuminati and I like the characters(Arthur and his eventual band of knights, the collection of different personalites with "reformed" characters)in both of the spin-offs but I'll give the extra bump to Pendragon for arthur's deeper relationship within the Illuminati(Duval) and Excalibur.

Gargoyles 2198:Gargoyles in the future and has some of the orginal cast in it in some form. Kind of curious to see what are the space-spawn look like...

Dark Ages:Medieval times, perhaps get the chance to see what the Wryvern clan looked like in its prime. Probably depends on how well the stories are told(and if Greg knows some more real history that gets tied in).

New Olympians:I don't have a problem with the Romeo & Juliet angle and Xanatos getting his hands on the Olympians but, based on the only canon episode they appeared in, they all seemed narrow-minded(yes,they had their tragedy stories too but they give me the impression of being less adaptable, Goliath at least adapts to Manhattan when he first awaken there and Demona adapts by being more ruthless to survive, not all of it was postive but it's growth nevertheless). So, in a way, I don't have much sympathy for them, probably depends on the new characters revealed in the spin-off and the stories.

Now for Gargoyles related(in terms of if Gargoyles was brought back, what spin-offs should be running alongside it)

Pendragon/Bad Guys:Both will clash with the Illuminati, probably meet the Gargoyles as well. Both are happening around the same timeline as Gargoyles. They even have a potential decent recurring character(Macbeth and Arthur with their chivarly to help each other when needed, Demona and Robyn may run into each other if the Bad Guys are recruting or other miscellaneous reasons.) You could have a 3-episode show start in Gargoyles and end in Pendragon. These two probably have the best synergy for Gargoyles(my opinion).

Now it gets tricky...

Dark Ages/Gargoyles 2198:Tales of clan Wyrvern's ancient past and unwritten tales of its future. Both technically relate to Gargoyles but they don't necessarily have an immediate impact unless something important happened(how Xanatos got rich,how one learns magic and why doesn't everyone do it,how Goliath's actions impact the future gargoyles in 2198, etc.). Bit distant but still there.

Timedancer:Yes, Brooklyn and company have the potential to affect every spin-off in some fashion and what he learns/finds out could make some interesting stories in Gargoyles or if said knowledge can't be revealed due to time travels laws(could make for character dilemnas). While Brooklyn is part of the Gargoyles series, I think his impact is spread around to all the other spinoffs, while those listed above Timedancer either have a direct effect or potential stronger effect on the Gargoyles series than Timedancer(or I could be proven wrong depending on the stories and what actually happens...).

New Olympians: Yeah, they occur at the same timeline as Gargoyles and could have a fairly direct effect on Gargoyles through the dealing of Xanatos(and if/when the gargoyles find out what he's up to), I'm still largely unsympathetic to them. Most likely will depend on who's in the series besides those shown already...

Hope this makes sense, apologize in advance for spelling errors due to lack of sleep...

Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Friday, March 19, 2004 12:33:49 AM
IP: 24.194.45.103

GREGARIUS - I don't think that you were reading Greg's comments about "Pendragon" at "Ask Greg" too closely. In his description, there are other Arthurian survivors besides Arthur, Merlin, and Percival/Duval (such as Blanchefleur, who was supposed to be a regular alongside Arthur and Griff), and other Arthurian elements as well (such as the Holy Grail and the Questing Beast).

(And I still would have liked to have seen something of Duval, if for no other reason than to find out how he justifies things like the Hotel Cabal and assisting Castaway in setting up the Quarrymen.)

Based on the earlier remarks here about "prequelitis" regarding "Dark Ages", I wonder if "Timedancer" could face a similar problem. If we already know that Brooklyn will get back home to New York safe and sound (alongside Katana, Fu-Dog, Nashville, and the egg that will hatch into Tachi), it could be argued that there won't be that much suspense over how it winds up.

As for me, I like time travel stories, if done well. (My ideal for such a series is one where the character gets to make several visits to the historical past and in a variety of different time periods, rather than one where the visits are mainly to the future or to relatively recent history, as in the last few decades.) The impression that I got from Greg's description of "Timedancer" is that it'd be more the former (yes, Brooklyn would visit 2198 for quite some time, but he'd also go to 10th century Scotland, medieval Japan, and maybe ancient Rome - to see Caesar Augustus's advisor cast the humility spell on the gargoyles - and the Mesozoic - Greg hinted that there'd be some "dinosaur action" in "Timedancer", unless, of course, somebody was reviving dinosaurs in a "Jurassic Park" style - I certainly wouldn't put it past Sevarius to try something like that.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, March 18, 2004 06:43:55 PM
IP: 171.75.194.106

JJ: Do we really know much about what 'Pendragon' would be like? Although we know Greg was going to build from a small cast that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think it could be pretty interesting.

Anyway, my order would go:

'Gargoyles'
'Pendragon'
'Gargoyles 2198'
'New Olympians'
'Dark Ages'
'Bad Guys'
'Timedancer'

Ed
Thursday, March 18, 2004 06:42:57 PM
IP: 131.111.8.97

sorry for the double post, but another thought occured to me:
it could be done like a comic book. and theres like 5 or 6 episodes in a row that focus on one thing, then we start a different thread. that'd be pretty cool

matt
Thursday, March 18, 2004 05:38:56 PM
IP: 207.230.48.71

Patrick> "Today we celebrate the fellow who had the forethought to expel the snakes from Ireland, thereby keeping the island free forever of Steve Irwin. So have a happy St. Patrick's Day!"
ironically, Ireland never had any snakes in the first place, so i'd imagine ridding the island of them was rather easy, even for a non-saint. i had heard the legend about St patrick banishing the snakes and serpents from Ireland and its often used as a methaphor for his driving the pagan religions from Ireland and bringing in Christianity, but i had a creativity demon the other day that perhaps Patrick looked at the native Irish Clan as snakes and serpents and demons and had a part in banishing them from Ireland... interesting.

spin-offs> my order stands as this from most want to least want:
Dark Ages
Gargoyles
Bad Guys
Timedancer
Pendragon
Gargoyles: 2198
New Olympians

a thought did occur to me though. how cool would a series called Tales of the Gargoyles or something be? every episode could be almost independent of the others except for lots of characters used throughout and of course the same time-line and universe. one episode could focus on Arthur and his quest, the next episode could focus on Jade and Turquesa getting home, the next episode could focus on Brook winding up some place in time. i know this would be extremely confusing for new viewers and it wouldn't make a real strong continuity, but its a way for all the spin-offs to get their shot at the screen. of course, if Gargoyles was brought back, this could be done also. i dunno, just a thought and since i'm rambling, i'm gonna go now... : )

matt
Thursday, March 18, 2004 05:36:58 PM
IP: 207.230.48.71

The joys of using a new web browser... :-/
Sorry.
JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Thursday, March 18, 2004 04:03:43 PM
IP: 65.244.170.163

Todd Re Spinoffs>>
I would have thought you would like Dark Ages more than Pendragon.

In fact, I would think that Pendragon would have much less of the Arthurian trappings and mythos you crave than you might think. After all, outside of Arthur, Duvall, and Merlin, who could be left from the legends? I just don't think "Pendragon" is a good idea for an entire series, as it would devolve into an extended Avalon quest (what some fans called the "Mists of Avalon" eps from season 2), or a "TimeDancer" without *time* travel.

Ironically, "TimeDancer" could have more of a mythological feel than "Pendragon," because the writers can take the protagonist -- the TimeDancer -- to the actual settings of various stories. Heck, the TimeDancer could actually visit Camelot and have an on-screen adventure with Arthur, Lancelot, etc. that the good King in "Pendragon" could only relate in an awkward flashback.

It would be better to leave "Pendragon" as part of the main series, to revisit now and again. Or, perhaps a "Pendragon" mini-series could be made.

Sorry about the chunky writing. I am pressed for time! :-(

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Thursday, March 18, 2004 04:01:59 PM
IP: 65.244.170.163

Todd Re Spinoffs>>
I would have thought you would like Dark Ages more than Pendragon.

In fact, I would think that Pendragon would have much less of the Arthurian trappings and mythos you crave than you might think. After all, outside of Arthur, Duvall, and Merlin, who could be left from the legends? I just don't think "Pendragon" is a good idea for an entire series, as it would devolve into an extended Avalon quest (what some fans called the "Mists of Avalon" eps from season 2), or a "TimeDancer" without *time* travel.

Ironically, "TimeDancer" could have more of a mythological feel than "Pendragon," because the writers can take the protagonist -- the TimeDancer -- to the actual settings of various stories. Heck, the TimeDancer could actually visit Camelot and have an on-screen adventure with Arthur, Lancelot, etc. that the good King in "Pendragon" could only relate in an awkward flashback.

It would be better to leave "Pendragon" as part of the main series, to revisit now and again. Or, perhaps a "Pendragon" mini-series could be made.

Sorry about the chunky writing. I am pressed for time! :-(

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Thursday, March 18, 2004 03:35:46 PM
IP: 65.244.170.163

141 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!

Patrick
Thursday, March 18, 2004 06:50:20 AM
IP: 65.43.150.4

Patrick: Don't ya love Scientology?

But I would like to see Bad Guys or Timedancer. But I'd watch whatever they'd come out with.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:34:07 PM
IP: 132.170.40.115

Happy St. Patrick's Day, everybody. I watched my tape of "The Hound of Ulster" again today, following my usual tradition.

My own order of preferences for the spin-offs (inspired by Patrick's list) - and leaving out "Gargoyles" itself because I can't decide where to rank it in relation to the spin-offs - is (with the one I'd most like to see at the top and the one I'd least like to see at the bottom):

Pendragon
Dark Ages
A three-way-tie between "Timedancer", "New Olympians", and "Gargoyles 2198"
Bad Guys

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 06:56:48 PM
IP: 171.75.195.74

Hi first off I would say sorry I've bin away my computer's Hard Drive died so it cost me a small fortune to replace, my second thing I want to talk about is that short story contest for the Gathering.

You know the one about the P Gate, you have to mention it or in passing in your story. Well I can't deal with the word cap I don't like limits on my work,


Vanguard - [conklin@shaw.ca]
Victoria, BC, Canada
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 06:16:44 PM
IP: 24.64.223.203

HAPPY ST. PATRICK'S DAY EVERYONE !
Babs
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:59:53 PM
IP: 68.80.222.40

Ever since "Battlefield Earth," I've not been a big fan of stories set in future worlds where aliens rule the Earth. So if I had to rank the potential revivals of "Gargoyles" in order of the ones I'd most prefer to see to those I'd least like to see, I'm afraid 2198 would come in at the bottom.

My biggest preference would be to see the original series revived. After that, my list would probably go Dark Ages, Bad Guys, Time Dancer, New Olympians, and 2198.

Patrick
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:38:18 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Oh, Crap. Last post was from me. Sorry.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:11:42 PM
IP: 132.170.33.185

Todd: If 2198 was done anything like the orignal show, there would be ample flashbacks to the future's past.

Talon: There's a 3D episode?
Anonymous
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:11:11 PM
IP: 132.170.33.185

Hey,

Does anyone know where I can get the 3-D Gargoyle episode?

<On tenterhooks>

Talon
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:50:50 AM
IP: 129.234.4.10

Demona Taina> Good guess, but wrong. Sorry.

If anyone can guess where "That is all i will say" come from, they will be the winner in my contest.

HINT: I did not make it up. It is a quote anyone could have heard. You could have read it on the internet, *but it did not originate here.*

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaWednesday, March 17, 2004 10:20:01 AM
IP: 137.186.134.59

QUESTION - Yes, but my point is that the planet has been conquered by the Space-Spawn, who are now the people running things (any humans in charge are most likely the local quislings); the authority's been taken out of humanity's hands.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 06:56:37 AM
IP: 171.75.194.26

Faith and begora! There be 142 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec, lads and laddies!

:: passes out bowls of Lucky Charms ::

Today we celebrate the fellow who had the forethought to expel the snakes from Ireland, thereby keeping the island free forever of Steve Irwin. So have a happy St. Patrick's Day!

Patrick
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 06:52:44 AM
IP: 65.43.150.4

Todd Jensen<I can foresee a lot of debates over the relationship of gargoyles to human law (as in whether their patrolling the city counts as vigilantism or not, and if it does, what to do about that) and whether they can or even should try to integrate them. (In fact, it makes it a pity that the Space-Spawn take over Earth in the series, because a condition of being occupied by alien invaders is not going to be the ideal situation for focusing on those issues.) >

What better place to deal with these situations than when everybody is under pressure especially from the SS invasion.

Airwalker<Besides there are other difficulties to overcome with S&P being what they are now; after all how can you have a medieval set series with swordfights where nobody gets stabbed or without any blood? >

They didn't have much blood in Gargoyles itself despite their enemies being armed with lasers and variety of devices nastier than swords and arrows. I think Greg can easily work around it. Besides we didn't see very much gore in the flashbacks either.

<I'm just not a fan of prequels in general although it is difficult to get attached to a character knowing that he or she isn't going to survive no matter how interesting he or she is>

Actually from what Greg has said only Hudson's mate and Hippolyta are going to be main gargoyle characters that don't make it. All the others survive in one form or another.

Question
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 01:55:28 AM
IP: 69.44.73.131

Sharing the planet with intelligent non-humans>>
Todd, this is the sort of thing covered in science fiction quite a bit. I know that the show "Alien Nation" dicussed this subject to a degree, for instance.

Still, it would be interesting to see how/if humans can stop seeing gargoyles as dangerous predators that need to be controlled. How amazing gargoyles could be: living with gargoyles would be like discovering a friendly pride of lions that can be trusted not to hurt people. The fact that gargoyles are essentially wild (although some clans do get aid from humans) and even possess as much intelligence as humans only enhances the allure these creatures should have on some people. (Need I mention candidates?)

But now I'm just fantasizing

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:47:13 AM
IP: 65.244.170.163

Personally, I'm wondering when we get to know the ratings Gargoyles had last week. Don't know how early those get released to the public...

Todd:
I don't have a problem with prequels so long as the episodes are interesting(which I have trouble finding these days). I think some of the medieval "culture" can be taken care off with a teen rating or so(what's the next step up, young adult?), wouldn't mind if all the series end up with a teen rating so the show can have some lee-way with what it can and can't do. But I can't recall a disney show that every had a rating go beyond Y7 in recent years(or I'm just out of touch). So long as the show is quality, I could care less where and when it takes place.

Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:42:19 AM
IP: 24.194.42.204

Geez, all I said is that Jem is coming out at the end of the month and we still have no gargs. Oy. touchy people.
Wingless
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:41:16 AM
IP: 24.157.218.68

Alex Garg: No, the order isn't messed up. "Vertigo1" claimed the number four spot. He couldn't claim seventh because he was already fourth, so... the order remains as it is. :P

Battle Beast: Big DUH on this one. Brooklyn XT, right? :P

Gargoyles DVD: We should all be happy a Gargoyles DVD is coming out! So stop complaining that it will only have the first season (yes, I'd love more, but you take what you can get!) and be sure to buy it when it comes out. :D

That is all I will say. Tee hee.

Demona Taina
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:26:30 AM
IP: 172.174.87.139

Gerg B> WHEN?

Contest> Some of you may have noticed that I always end my comment with "That is all I will say."

The first person to correctly tell me where I get that from will be the winner.

HINT: I did not make it up. It is a quote anyone could have heard.

(I'm curious to know if anyone can figure this out.)

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaWednesday, March 17, 2004 12:12:20 AM
IP: 137.186.134.59

Stop screaming, "Gargoyles" is coming to DVD. Sheesh.
Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:04:47 AM
IP: 216.179.4.168

Further proof there is no justice in the world. While we still wait for Gargoyles to be released on DVD, Rhino home video is about to release:
Jem: The Complete 1st & 2nd Seasons (4-DVD Boxed Set) on March 30th.

*runs screaming from the room*

Wingless
Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:02:31 AM
IP: 24.157.218.68

I don't think that the prequelitis problem would have bothered me that much; what did matter to me was that I liked the atmosphere of the medieval flashbacks of "Gargoyles" and often thought (even before I discovered "Gargoyles" fandom on the Internet and learned about the Master Plan) that it would have been neat if they could have done a series set entirely in the 10th century.

I never gave any thought to the S&P issue regarding swordfights, but I suppose that that would be an issue. (Though they did manage to handle the battle scenes in episodes like "City of Stone" effectively without blood or stabbings.)

I will confess that I still have mixed feelings about whether or not I'd like to see "Gargoyles 2198". On the one hand, the parts of "Gargoyles" that (at least initially) most appealed to me were the medieval/fantastic elements, which obviously would have a much smaller role in "Gargoyles 2198" than they did in the original series. On the other hand, it would be more "Gargoyles". And it's the spin-off with the most realistic hope of being able to explore the issues of what happens when humanity finally realizes that gargoyles are an intelligent race with their own culture and society rather than simply weird-looking creatures, and then has to do something that has no precedent (certainly no real-world precedent) - how to deal with sharing the world and its cities with a non-human intelligent species. This isn't going to be that much like the civil rights movement in the real world in the long run for one simple reason: gargoyles aren't humans but something else entirely. I can foresee a lot of debates over the relationship of gargoyles to human law (as in whether their patrolling the city counts as vigilantism or not, and if it does, what to do about that) and whether they can or even should try to integrate them. (In fact, it makes it a pity that the Space-Spawn take over Earth in the series, because a condition of being occupied by alien invaders is not going to be the ideal situation for focusing on those issues.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, March 16, 2004 06:45:43 PM
IP: 171.75.194.53

Patrick>> "Gee, lots of people love to count."

And unfortunately the order is all wrong. Vertigo1 was #7 but he didn't "claim" it, so that managed to screw-up the order. In the name of technicality: matt was 8, Patrick was 9, Kanthara was 10, Leo 11, Talon 12, James 13, JJ 14, Todd 15, Airwalker 16, me 17.

Game over. *OCD satisfied*

On to the more formal discussion>>

I'm not sure there's as large a market for either Dark Ages or G2198 as there might be for the present Gargoyles timeline. Part of the beauty of the series as we know it is that it blended Medieval/Fantasy themes with SciFi themes in the modern world, so there was a little of something for everybody. If there were spin-off series', I imagine that there'd be a sort of polarization: people would either prefer Dark Ages or G2198 because they either like things Medieval or SciFi and the target demographic would split - much to the disapproval of execs. I base this on a number of my friends (and family members) who love fantasy novels but loathe SciFi and the others who are just the opposite - there doesn't seem to be much coming together between the two (although I tend to agree with Airwalker that SciFi can merge better with other genres).

I don't mind prequels, but my main problem with Dark Ages is that it isn't set too far back. As Airwalker said, there really is no guessing as to how everything is going to end up for the characters in focus because, well, we know that most of them die. I don't mind learning more about the characters' histories, but at the same time I'm concerned that the series would be more about character exposition than character development which, frankly, doesn't make for as exciting a series. So perhaps if Dark Ages were set further back in time where we really don't know any of the characters because the majority weren't around in 994, I think there'd be a better chance to attract people to the show (but, of course, there will be the people put off by the fact that it would basically be a whole new clan to learn with not enough familiarity/recognition of the main series and be less inclined to watch - I just can't win).

Alex Garg - [alex_garg@yahoo.com]
VA, USA
Tuesday, March 16, 2004 01:55:33 PM
IP: 216.145.68.130

Sorry I've been out for a bit; been working on various papers for the last couple of days. If I'm not in as much as I'd like, that's the excuse. Anyway -

TODD - You wrote: [I've recently wondered whether the box-office success of the Lord of the Rings movies could change that a little, make network executives more open to the idea of adventure stories set in a medieval or "semi-medieval" time period.]

I'm not so sure about that; if they weren't up for it back in the day when Hercules and Xena were dominating TV then odds are good that the executives aren't going to be much up for it in the wake of the LoTR Trilogy. Besides there are other difficulties to overcome with S&P being what they are now; after all how can you have a medieval set series with swordfights where nobody gets stabbed or without any blood? Gargoyles managed to deal with it well but some of what they were able to do in 1994 wouldn't be allowed now; besides the truth is that for all the medieval base of the series, its almost completely set in modern times.

You wrote: [One that I recall was the issue of how we'd know in advance that most of the gargoyles at Castle Wyvern are going to get slaughtered by the Vikings in 994, so that would discourage us from getting too attached to them.]

I'm just not a fan of prequels in general although it is difficult to get attached to a character knowing that he or she isn't going to survive no matter how interesting he or she is. Its the problem I had with TGS Goliath and Asrial; we knew he's going to end up with Demona so any hints that they had possibilities in the story aren't taken seriously. (That said, I did like the character very much; but the only future she has is being smashed to death (or dying earlier than 994) unless she's brought into the present as a ghost or something.)

Personally I don't think that its the Prequel angle that is as problematic anymore as much as it is the setting. With the amount of time that has passed, most of the audience is going to go into a DARK AGES series fresh without much background. So outside of fandom the audience won't really know its a prequel.

Personally though I think that at this point the most viable spinoff would be G2198; SciFi has a better chance for success in animation and besides it can mix and match with Medieval and Future elements in a way that DARK AGES just isn't going to be able to do.

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Tuesday, March 16, 2004 09:50:29 AM
IP: 12.75.155.207

Last week, Greg Weisman, in replying to my comments on "Avalon Part One", said:

<I don't know that Dark Ages wouldn't be commercially viable. I do know it's tough to convince Network Executives that it's commercially viable.>

I've recently wondered whether the box-office success of the Lord of the Rings movies could change that a little, make network executives more open to the idea of adventure stories set in a medieval or "semi-medieval" time period. (I hope so, for my own part.)

Of course, judging from the conversations that I've seen here in the past about "Dark Ages", there'd be other potential obstacles to convincing the execs besides the time period. One that I recall was the issue of how we'd know in advance that most of the gargoyles at Castle Wyvern are going to get slaughtered by the Vikings in 994, so that would discourage us from getting too attached to them. (On the other hand, the impression that I had from reading Greg's description of "Dark Ages" is that it would have focused on the gargoyles that we know survive the massacre - Hudson, Goliath, Demona, etc. - and that the gargoyles who do get massacred by Hakon would most likely be minor characters that we wouldn't see as often.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, March 16, 2004 07:47:51 AM
IP: 171.75.244.70

Gee, lots of people love to count.

143 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec! Are YOU registered yet?

Patrick
Tuesday, March 16, 2004 06:55:10 AM
IP: 65.43.150.4

13th?!?
Will this game ever stop?

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Tuesday, March 16, 2004 01:15:19 AM
IP: 65.244.170.163

12th!

Yup, I've registered. Canada here I come!

James Anatidae - [parshall@citcom.net]
Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30:31 PM
IP: 207.144.78.217

Eleventh
Talon
Monday, March 15, 2004 08:54:33 PM
IP: 129.234.4.1

10th. (I think)
Leo
Monday, March 15, 2004 12:00:01 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Well, I'll be... NINTH!

Have you registered for the Gathering of the Gargoyles yet?

Kanthara
Monday, March 15, 2004 11:57:28 AM
IP: 69.70.79.63

Number eight, in the name of people who love to count!

144! 144 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec! Mwah-ha-ha! :: thunder and lightening ::

Patrick
Monday, March 15, 2004 06:53:33 AM
IP: 65.43.150.4

been over 6 hours and i can still claim 7TH!!!!
matt
Monday, March 15, 2004 06:16:44 AM
IP: 207.230.48.7

"I am getting a Satelite Dish and I SHOULD be able to get ABC Family (Thank GOD).

What kind of edits are we talking about?? Do they cut parts out? This is new to mel why would they do that??? I don understand that...

That is all I will say. "

I think you mis-understood us BattleBeast. The edits we're referring to are things NOT edited out. The commercials were longer than TD's for sure, but they're not as frequent and it seems as if the are going to be nowhere near as anal on the editing as TD is. (ex: TD cutting out the part in "The Gathering, part 2" where Oberon gets shot by Xanatos Sr. yet showing the gun firing and suddenly cutting to where after the spear impales Oberon in the chest.)

I'm very excited because this'll be the first time I've seen "Deadly Force" ever since it originally aired and I have NO intention of missing it. :)

Vertigo1
Monday, March 15, 2004 02:47:11 AM
IP: 65.119.228.199

Well, I was checking the newsgroup just to see if there was any activity and I spotted this posted back on the sixth...

http://www.tfw2005.com/downloads-cat-9.html

Scroll down to the second to last link. I don't really care for it, but I imagine someone out there will like it.

Vertigo1
Atoka, TN, USA
Monday, March 15, 2004 02:42:36 AM
IP: 65.119.228.199

Yes! I'm sixth! I'm sixth! Bwahah! I beat the seventh! And the eighth! And the ninth! And the tenth! Bwahahahah!

Yep... I'm terribly bored. :P

Demona Taina
Monday, March 15, 2004 12:43:47 AM
IP: 172.171.145.66

5th ! I'm in. are you !?
Babs
Monday, March 15, 2004 12:12:50 AM
IP: 68.80.222.40

#4!!!! (finally made it)
Vertigo1
Atoka, TN, USA
Monday, March 15, 2004 12:09:44 AM
IP: 65.119.228.199

#3!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, March 15, 2004 12:08:42 AM
IP: 67.14.195.49

Sorry Wingless, Not tonight. :) I beat you by two seconds. Wow!

Although the East beat the West in the Brier (Sad, very sad) the West beat the East in this room!!!

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, March 15, 2004 12:02:27 AM
IP: 198.53.73.116

AAAAAh! Battle Beast! 2 whole seconds! sooo close, Sooo Close.

Second

Wingless
Monday, March 15, 2004 12:01:08 AM
IP: 24.157.218.68

Once again Attepmting to be....

FIRST! Muahahahaha...cough, gag, sputter...

*makes note to self, no more evil laughing*

Wingless
Monday, March 15, 2004 12:00:07 AM
IP: 24.157.218.68

1st!!!!!! (It's been too long.)

I am getting a Satelite Dish and I SHOULD be able to get ABC Family (Thank GOD).

What kind of edits are we talking about?? Do they cut parts out? This is new to mel why would they do that??? I don understand that...

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, March 15, 2004 12:00:05 AM
IP: 198.53.73.116