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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending February 8, 2010

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ok guys, let's stop picking on Wilman. He can't help what he is.
Madame M

OH WILMAN, YOU'LL NEVER STOP ME.

FIRST GARGOYLES, THEN THE WOOOOOOORLD.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Phineas and Ferb

Cubone> Agree with you guys on that. Up was great and I couldn't believe I was getting so emotional about a pixar film, forgetting my experience with Toy Story 2. And Monsters Inc. Oh man that one just gets me every time. I did enjoy Avatar, I'm not gonna try and pretend I didn't, but I would love to see UP get it.
Madame M

Uh, Wilman, you do realize that Gargoylesis still running in the 4 AM timeslot on Disney XD as it has been for quite a while now, right? As a matter of fact, the next episode slated to run is the start of Season 2, Leader of the Pack.

Samuel, I slightly agree with you on the weakness of Conroy's Bruce Wayne. Later on in the depictions of Batman in the DCAU, there was very little tonal difference between Batman and Bruce Wayne. The early episodes, however, had a rather clear distinction between the two (something that returned in Conroy's work for Batman: Gotham Knight). I refer you to the episode Heart of Steel - watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAel9mWamNA#t=3m30s for about 30 seconds and you should see what I mean. Personally, I consider Conroy the definitive voice of both Batman and Bruce Wayne.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Demonskrye> This is very true, I totally see what you mean. That's my biggest draw to their films now, is how beautifully they incorporate themes and stuff like that in vibrant and lighthearted universes and in some cases, the characters themselves. I'm pretty sure unless you find enjoyment out of kicking puppies and torturing frogs, you cracked at least 1 tear in Jessie's flashback in Toy Story 2, and the opening montage and the book scene (good LORD that book scene KILLS me) in Up. It's incredible how much emotion they can pull out of completely fictional characters. That's their method: Make it believable, not realistic. You want to do things with animation you can't do with live action. Sure, you can do anything with live action, but at some point, you become too dependent on technology which essentially makes it not live action at all. Avatar anyone? *slams the book closed*

Pixar is just a master at creating an almost perfect fictional world and characters. They gotta talk to Greg,... hmmm

lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

oh i study stuff, besides, what do you think happens when i expect to see Gargoyles on Disney XD only to find out that it's timeslot has been REPLACED BY CAN YOU GUESS?
Wilman.
Wilman.

Greg> Oh Dear Lord... I laughed so hard I think I hurt something!!
Madame M

SAMUEL> I was considering a long tirade, but I'll let my friend, Perry, speak for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

;)

Greg Bishansky

Samuel> I stand chastised, you are correct.
Madame M

Nice to see people aren't beating a dead horse anymore.

I've never been a huge fan of Kevin Conroy's Batman. His voice is suitable; he gets the job done and done well. I just find that his Bruce Wayne isn't very interesting. I prefer Rino Romano's Bruce Wayne.

Samuel
Now, now. Language...

Wilman> For hating something so much, you certainly know an aweful lot about it...I'm just sayin'....
Madame M

Brainiac> Certainly Brave and the Bold has been having all manner of fun in the way of voice casting. I share your enthusiasm for the upcoming voice actors, particularly Kevin Conroy, who will always be my number one Bat. (Just beat Arkham Asylum a few days ago.)

Cubone> I meant to write this in response to one of your earlier comments, but I got sidetracked. As I see it, the real turning point for Pixar was Toy Story 2, and I'm not just saying that because it's the film I'm currently writing about on my blog. Don't get me wrong; I really liked both the first Toy Story and A Bug's Life. But I feel like Toy Story 2 was the start of Pixar tackling more mature concepts and questions that didn't have easy answers. Pixar films may still appeal to all ages, but they make fewer and fewer concessions to the idea of courting the kiddies market with easy, "kid-relatable" stories and characters. Woody may be a toy, but his relationship with Andy in the second film is pretty close to parent and child, which kicked off a group of films that focused on parents and children and bucked convention by focusing mainly on the parent's point of view.

Demonskrye - [<---The Animated Oscars at The Ink and Pixel Club]

I haven't seen anyone this angry about an animated series they don't like since Eric Cartman hopped on a Big Wheel and took off to invade the studio where "Family Guy" is made.
Patrick
"It's a small world but I wouldn't want to paint it." - Steven Wright

HoE> I appreciate your support, but I wouldn't recommend "Return of the Mayhem of the Revenge" to anyone. That was one of those horrible ideas that got into my head, refused to shut up, and of the limited options I had for getting it OUT of my head, writing it down was the only one I could think of that didn't require me to hurt myself.

Perhaps, but what won me over was actually seeing Demona's reaction to those who would be crazy to hit on her, and the clan's reinforcement that doing so is a deth wish.

Antiyonder

No offense to our beloved Broadway, but I'm more interested in the legendary voice showing up in the next episode and again two weeks after that. The Batman of Zur-En-Arrh and The Phantom Stranger...both voiced by Kevin Conroy. Heck, the latter episode (Chill of the Night) is a Bat-actors extravaganza, with Mark Hamill as The Spectre, Adam West as Thomas Wayne, and Julie Newmar as Martha Wayne. Seriously, I'm not gonna be able to watch that episode without grinning like a loon the entire time.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Phineas And Ferb sucks, the plots are stupid, the acting is horrible, snd it doesn't make a lick of sense. I don't know why people like it! or why they ever made it, Gargoyles is so much better! but i'm saying that the shows don't have to emulate gargoyles much less replace them or have conventions and more fans and a spot in the comicon when gargoyles doesn't!
Wilman.
Wilman.

Demonskyre>...The ONE WEEK I miss Brave and the Bold and he's on it? Well darn.
Harlan Phoenix

Sorry for the double post, but...

Demonskrye> Saw it on Friday. I was almost expecting someone to bring it up here around the time it aired.

Antiyonder

Wilman> You''l get no arguement from me that Gargoyles is Disney's best show, but do you really think that the other Disney cartoons are horrible simply because they don't try to emulate Gargoyles?

I'm pretty neutral on P&F myself, but whenever I do get a chance to watch it, I see it as a harmless and sometimes even fun show.

Antiyonder

Anyone else catch Bill Fagerbakke as the voice of half of Firestorm on Batman: The Brave nd the Bold this week? While hearing his voice is far from rare, I still enjoy it when he shows up, especially on a series I dig as much as this one.
Demonskrye - [<---The Animated Oscars at The Ink and Pixel Club]

No i just mean that Disney produced it so well, it's kind of like it's its true series, it comes from Disney's heart. and also it's the first of it's kind in the types of shows that disney produced, before that Disney shows were only allowed to be very little and kid friendly, but after this they started to do more!
Wilman.
Wilman.

Disney's original TV series? You mean Gargoyles was so awesome it actually bended the timestream to retroactively make itself the very first animated show Disney ever produced?
Harlan Phoenix

i'm not a jerk ass, and you misunderstand what i'm trying to do i'm not trying to discredit Phineas and Ferb all i'm trying to do is Save Gargoyles, help stop the show from taking all of it's spots on Disney XD and get more fans to come look at this show besides that one, and help bring Gargoyles back, bring Disney's Original TV Series back the true Disney series, the one and Only Gargoyles.
Also i'd like to say i do agree that Avatar got more than it deserved, i mean Pirates Of The Caribbean already used that technique of Face digital effects for Davy Jones, and The Dark Knight did it for Two Face so i don't see how people were amazed and said that it was a new record in film history, Pirates should've gotten that.

Wilman.
Wilman.

WILMAN> You know what TV show I really hate? "Sabrina the Teenage Witch", I seriously cannot stand that show, I literally cannot even stay in the same room while it's on, I have to leave immediately before the brain cells start deteriorating.

What I don't do is actively seek out Sabrina fans and start harassing them about how their favorite show is crap and trying to nag them into watching "Fraiser" instead. The reason I don't do this is because I don't want people to think I'm a jerk-ass. Mind you, I am a jerk-ass, but I'd rather not go out of my way to make it blazingly obvious to people.

Algernon
Have you accepted Greg Weisman as your personal Lord and Savior?

i only kept talking because you guys kept talking about it, i'd gladly change the subject now, trust me that fan fiction sucks.
Wilman.
Wilman.

I refuse to believe a Phineas and Ferb crossover with Gargoyles could suck.

Secret agent platypus versus Anton Sevarius.

Hell yes.

Harlan Phoenix

Someone read a fanfiction that sucked? No way! There's not BOATLOADS of fanfic out there that sucks. Not no way, not no how!
Patrick
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

I like the cut of this Wilman's jib. I like the idea of him physically abusing himself.
Harlan Phoenix

Wilman: So you say you're not obsessed, and yet you'd rather physically abuse yourself than see a Phineas and Ferb episode? Please enlighten us as to how this isn't obsession, since you seem to be such a great authority on this subject, what with all your eloquently worded posts that ramble on and on about Phineas and Ferb. Which doesn't imply obsession at all. Nope, no way.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Flat Top, you got a need for speed, do ya? Just can't wait to get back to the Big G and the loving embrace of your fellow pilots? Or maybe you have a hot date with your right hand?" -Starbuck ("Battlestar Galactica")

It's possible to hate something obsessively.
Rebel

I'm not obsessed, i hate that show, i'd sooner go brush my teeth on a horse's tail.
Wilman.
Wilman.

Wilman, this is not a forum to discuss Gargoyles fan fiction crossovers. If you're so offended, contact the writer and discuss it with him/her privately. Ranting about it here isn't going to help you, the writer, the readers, or anyone else.

Also, if you go to that convention to complain about Phineas and Ferb, you're only going to make the Gargoyles fandom look bad. Really, you don't see us raiding Power Rangers conventions accusing them of killing our show. Please, stop.

D. Taina
The story is told, though who can say if it be true... -Shari

Wilman > But it's not all about which series was there first, or even which series is better. It's about ratings. If a series which is absolute swill gets better ratings than another series which is truly magnificent, then execs will stand behind the crappy series. The bottom line is money, and ratings leads to money, since advertisers want to purchase commercial time during series with high ratings, and they will pay more for ad spots during higher-rated programming.
Rebel

<<I i'm not obsessed, i hate this show. I hate it!>>

Sounds like obsession to me.

Greg Bishansky

i'm not, all i said was that i read a fan fiction which was s gargoyles crossover with phineas and ferb and that it sucked, and that i was glad greg weisman doesn't read fan fiction so he won't get the idea to do a real crossover between the two series, then i just said that i hate the show and can't believe they have thier own convention and that Disney's Supporting that but not the gathering maybe i should just go and help Gargoyles by spreading the word in that convention, but then you guys tell me not to so i ask then what should i do? and then you tell me that the gathering is not happening and you ask me to show you this convention and so on and so on, I i'm not obsessed, i hate this show. I hate it! In fact i have some advice for all fan fiction writers out there, don't write Gargoyles Stories that cross-over with Phineas and Ferb, they're the lowest show, trust me, you don't want to mix them up keep Gargoyles away from Phineas And Ferb! and also watch the episodes carefully and don't watch the Goliath Chronicles, please study the characters and know them ezxactlly before you write it, Sorry am i sounding rude to Fan Fiction writing? it's just that fan fcition was so terrible, they were so out of character and the plot was awful!
Wilman.
Wilman.

WILMAN> You know for someone who hates "Phineas and Ferb" so much, you seem really obsessed with it.
Greg Bishansky

i meant comicon 2010
Wilman.
Wilman.

The Phineas And Ferb Convention is real, here's one place where they announced it,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Lw5VZllDU&feature=related, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_c0J7PPDgU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYPvPKjPJSs&feature=related, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr723yGNv1Y&feature=related, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8PjlWpn2Ys&NR=1,. But you're right, maybe i should go somewhere else, although i must say that it'll be unfair the Gargoyles will not have thier own Convention this year, for they're truly better, those fans don't know what they're missing. But anyways, i'd like to also say whenever i see that, i cry, because i see how Disney forgot thier old shows, such as Gargoyles, and now just look at thier new series, which are total pieces of junks, i hope to comiccon 2009 and talk to that guy who was in charge of disney animation if he'll be there again and ask him about Gargoyles and remind him what series was there first!
Wilman.
Wilman.

Antiyonder: I appreciate your support, but I wouldn't recommend "Return of the Mayhem of the Revenge" to anyone. That was one of those horrible ideas that got into my head, refused to shut up, and of the limited options I had for getting it OUT of my head, writing it down was the only one I could think of that didn't require me to hurt myself.

Greg B: <What do a Disney sponsored Phineas and Ferb convention, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, Obama's Kenyan birth certificate, Godzilla, and a boy trapped in a balloon all have in common?> Ooh, ooh, I know! Have they all been the subject of a Robot Chicken sketch?

Battle Beast: Most of the movies I saw in the theater in 2009 (Harry Potter, Star Trek, District 9, Watchmen) were really good. The only movies I saw that I utterly despised were Transformers 2 and X-Men Origins.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Bill Watterson

Demonskrye> How true! I saw "Waltz With Bashir" and I thought it was a amazing. My friends never even heard of it. :/

Scrooge McDuck> I bought "Life and times" yesterday off amazon, so I am now waiting patiently for it to arrive! (My Going to Disneyland tomorrow will take my mind off the waiting. See y'all in about a week!)

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Algernon> It's been discussed before that "spread the word" and "spam the world" are not the same thing. Ideally, you want to be talking about the show and comics to people who are already inclined to listen to you, such as your friends, your family, people on websites you already frequent, etc. People dropping into places - real or virtual - where they"ve never been before and telling people they've never spoken to before about Gargoyles is not the idea and is probably not going to help.
Demonskrye - [<---The Animated Oscars at The Ink and Pixel Club]

You know I've always kind of worried that our "Spread the Word" mantra might inadvertently lead to some Gargoyles fans becoming the equivalent of those guys who come up to you in the street and ask if you've "found Jesus"(I didn't even know he was missing)?
Algernon
Have you accepted Greg Weisman as your personal Lord and Savior?

Randy Newman> I have no problem with Randy Newman whatsoever and I liked most of the songs and music in PatF, but I do think Lasseter should have gone with a composer who hadn't already done a ton of work for either Disney or Pixar if his logic was that he wanted to avoid repetition. Since we're only just starting to see movie coming out of Disney that really bear Lasseter and Catmull's influence, I think we're going to have to wait and see if the two of them can really carve out a separate identity for Disney animation while still giving it some of the elements that make Pixar films work so well or if Disney will just become "Pixar hand drawn."

Cubone> The Oscars are never entirely just about what's the best in film. Whether we want to admit it or not, external factors are always going to play a role. And one of those factors si the perception that if a film is perceived to be anything other than live actors playing roles, it's something different and less worthy of an award. I completely agree with you that animation is a medium, not a genre, and should be seen as such. It make me happy to hear someone other than me saying that outside of a forum specifically for animation fans. But it's going to take something big for animation to crack that glass ceiling. I'm thinking it's going to have to be some kind of a more mainstream Waltz With Bashir or Persepolis, an animated film that tackles a subject as serious as war, but draws enough of an audience so that the Academy can't just brush it off as "art house fare."

All that said, the amount of awards that it wins or doesn't win has no effect on how good a movie Up is or how financially successful it was, which is a bigger factor in determining whether we'll see more films like it.

Wilman> What you can do is talk up Gargoyles to your friends and family and other people who you know. Or you can go to conventions that celebrate something you actually like and discuss it with people there. You have a much better chance of influencing people who you already know or who you share a common interest with than you would of influencing people who don't know you or share interests with you. If you went into a hypothetical Phineas and Ferb convention hating Phineas and Ferb and telling everyone they should be watching Gargoyles, you would do just as well carrying around a big sign that says "Ignore Me."

Demonskrye - [<---The Animated Oscars at The Ink and Pixel Club]

BattleBeast>Yeah, that was my main problem with TPatF, as well as my friend's. I think Lasseter deciding to switch to Randy Newman hurt it a bit, he kinda picked favorites there. Still, there's bound to be a mistake here and there, and for the most part, Lasseter knows what he's doing. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, I think it's hard to be picky with what we ended up with. I think it was a really great step in the right direction for the medium, since it's been gone so long. Hopefully some smart people will jump on board, and we'll see a it return fairly often. :)

Also, about Wilman's idea, I kinda misunderstood. I thought he was gonna talk with people around a larger convention about appending Gargoyles to their booths and stuff, not invade another convention entirely. In that case, I'd say it's a bad idea. As Patrick said, just walking in and setting up stuff that has nothing to do with the con just gets in people's way, and is just rude in general. Regardless of the quality of the shows involved, it's not like there's some clean-cut demographic of P&F that makes all fans bash Gargoyles or anything, and that's kind of how you're talking about it. It'd be a bit different if they did something to our series, but even then, doing something like you're implying is just bashery. It's uncalled for. To do what you're trying to do, I suggest maybe talking with someone outside the con, but even then, it'd seem like soliciting, which is pretty much a universal evil. If you were leaving a Gargoyles con, I'm pretty sure some P&F fan walking up and going on about his show would get pretty annoying. The way you want it to happen just isn't decent. You can't force fandom onto people, and it's probably even worse to try to do it on other fanbases because they're not there for your show, they're there for their show. Maybe if the series was similar, or even the demographic was similar, you'd have a better chance, but you're looking at 2 entirely different shows. Besides, Gargoyles hasn't seen a new episode in 13 years. Without a substantial hardcore fanbase (and I know you guys here love the show, but it's not exactly huge from what I can tell), there's no motivation for them to support it. It's a business to them, and they'd need a compelling, profitable reason to sponsor it. Sad, but true. Sorry bud, but you should drop it and move on.

lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

I dissagree that 2009 was a terrible year for movies. "Inglourious Basterds" is now a favorite of mine; "The Hurt Locker" was amazing, and I just saw "Precious" tonight, and it blew me away. I also liked "Crazy Heart," and, of course, "Star Trek."

Animation was on top this year with the likes of "Ponyo," "Up," "Coraline," "Princess and the Frog," and others. Myself, I LOVED "Princess" and I thought it was beautifully done... the you can do SOOOO much more with 2-D animation than you can with Computer cnimation.

I CAN NOT stand Lassiter's reasoning on changing composers... He said he didn't want to seem repititious in using Alan Menken, so what does he do? He uses Randy Newman, the very composer he uses in practically ALL Pixar films.

Check out my website if your into Academy Awards Trivia and reviews of many films. Clicky my name.

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

JJ Gregarius>

Nice background there on the Welsh and Gaelic! Specially when you specify Scots as opposed to Irish Gaelic. That's one language I wouldn't mind learning. Our roots are planted but perhaps not as deeply as I'd like in Scotland.

Madame M

Also... as a former Gathering Co-Chair, I will say this. If someone ever crashed The Gathering to bother our attendees about some other show, attempt to hijack the video room, and told anyone who would listen that "Gargoyles" did not deserve a convention because it was "total crap"... they would have been given ONE warning to stop, and then they would be ejected from the con. That kind of behavior is not welcome at ANY convention.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Post a link to something that talks about this Phineas and Ferb con so I can stop doubting that it exists. That's the first thing you can do.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

so what should i do?
Wilman.
Wilman.

Wilman> If you want anyone there to listen and get into Gargoyles, badmouthing their favorite show and infering that they are wrong for enjoying it will only turn people off from the Gargoyles fandom.
Antiyonder

Hey i'm not going to the Convention for hatred, i'm going there to Help Gargoyles, I thought that's what i could do to help? I'm not a fanatic, i love Gargoyles and i don't want to see them replaced by Such Low Shows as Phineas And Ferb, so i want to do whatever i can to help, plus i want the gathering to continue, i want to see keith and Greg (Weisman) and the others.
Wilman.
Wilman.

Todd, you asked about the word "saeth."
It's Welsh for "arrow."

Scots Gaelic has a word spelt "saighead," which seems similar.

JJ Gregarius

BISHANSKY - Thanks, though I should like to stress the "quoted" part; the right person to credit for the definition is Sir Winston Churchill.
Todd Jensen

Oh, and another thing, I agree. Avatar was a solid film, but it's receiving sickening amounts of hype, and I dislike it just for that. Show someone a shiny new toy, and they soil themselves. Honestly, it disgusts me. Toy Story was the only Pixar film that received that sort of hype because it was a first. Now that CG animation is somewhat commonplace, no one gives a flip. It's just a kid's movie now. Seriously, tons of the themes showcased in Up are definitely not geared towards the young audience, and no one seems to care. Heck, all of Pixar's films, especially after Cars, have some really meaningful and mature premises, but does the academy care? Heck no. It's a MEDIUM, not a genre. They're comparing Animated to Live action like it's Barney vs. Rambo. Pull your head out guys, look at the storytelling. Look at the production values. Animators put just as much effort, if not more, into live action films. Up took 5 years to make. They need to realize that. That's 1 reason I'm so happy about the BP nom.
lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

WILMAN> No one here cares about your hatred of the Phineas and Ferb convention.

What was it Todd Jensen quoted once? A fanatic is someone who won't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Drop it, let it go.

Greg Bishansky

yeah well let's just hope for the both of us, oh and guys you guys the ones who sold the comics at the san diego comicon, do you have any left? send them to me, i'd like to give them out to the phineas and ferb fans so they can read them and experience it, i know it may have to be for free, but it's worth it, if it means attracting more people to Gargoyles, so do you have any left? If not i'll just have to buy a few myself, also i don't know if they'll have it, i mean it'll probably be a bigger convention than the gathering, but if like the gathering there'll be a room where people can sit and watch the dvds and episodes of the show, i'll try to bring Gargoyles DVDS and put them on and show them to the fans and others, i don't know if they'll allow me to do that but i'll try, all we can do is hope so wish mwe luck and i wish you luck, let's hope for the bes. and what There's no Gathering this year, no, that was the last Gathering, No, it can't be, The GAthering has been here for so long, i'm sure more people will make it this year, give it another chance, please, Phineas And Ferb are going to have A Convention this year so should Gargoyles, Gargoyles was First. WEll I gess you could be right, Demonskyre, but Phineas and Ferb don't deserve thier own convention, did you ever see that shjow it's total well, crap, Like What another person said on this board Gargoyles is way better, i want to show fans of this show how Gargoyles is a much better show and get more people to like Gargoyles. So i though i should to help keep Gargoyles alive, besides Phiineas And Ferb is what's replacing Gargoyles on Disney XD in the time slots of Showing, and we must not let them forget about Gargoyles, Disney's Original Series. So Don't you think i should?
Wilman.
Wilman.

Greg>I totally agree with your statement that 2009 was a terrible year for movies, with 1 exception. Animation had a wonderful year, with stuff like Coraline, Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, Ponyo, Up, Fantastic Mr. Fox (which I grossly underestimated), and of course the throwback, The Princess and the Frog. TPatF wasn't up to par with a lot of the stuff back in the day, but it's still a fantastic standalone film that I thoroughly enjoyed. My main complaint is the music wasn't up to snuff with the classics. Ousting the original composer for Lasseter favorite Randy Newman might have been a mistake on their part, but it wasn't terrible. I think he gets used too much though, they should try more variety in their composers (or just use Michael Giacchino, I'm so happy he's been cleaning up Best Score awards at practically every ceremony for his work on Up).

But as for the rest of the year, I'm gonna sound like a broken record when I mention how many travesties the theater has been exposed to in the last 12 months. The Blind Side may seem like a surprise to be in the Best Picture category, but I honestly can't think of anything that isn't a foreign film (or animated, the main element contributing to Up's BP nom is the expansion to 10 slots, but I'm absolutely THRILLED it made the spot regardless, hopefully animation will get some more notoriety) or some other art house feature that would fill the spot any better. Certainly nothing like the absolutely wretched Transformers 2 or X-Men Origins deserves to touch the Oscars with a 20 foot pole, much less be considered for any kind of award. I do think it was a fantastic year to become interested in animation though, like I have (dramatically). So for the most part, I'm happy with what I got at least.

lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

Well, the Best Picture nominees have been announced:

***

* "Avatar" James Cameron and Jon Landau, Producers
* "The Blind Side" Nominees to be determined
* "District 9" Peter Jackson and Carolynne Cunningham, Producers
* "An Education" Finola Dwyer and Amanda Posey, Producers
* "The Hurt Locker" Nominees to be determined
* "Inglourious Basterds" Lawrence Bender, Producer
* "Precious: Based on the Novel 'Push' by Sapphire" Lee Daniels, Sarah Siegel-Magness and Gary Magness, Producers
* "A Serious Man" Joel Coen and Ethan Coen, Producers
* "Up" Jonas Rivera, Producer
* "Up in the Air" Daniel Dubiecki, Ivan Reitman and Jason Reitman, Producers

***

Good to see animation being nominated. "Up" was a great movie, and I'm happy it's being recognized. That being said, I hope it doesn't win.

I'm rooting for "The Hurt Locker" as I thought that was an astounding movie. I also enjoyed "Inglorious Basterds" and "District 9" a great deal.

I am definitely rooting against "Avatar" as it looks like manipulative, one dimensional, tripe. But James Cameron has discovered the formula for successful movies. Make the audience believe they are thinking without actually making them think. If you fool people into believing they're thinking, they'll love you. If you actually make them think, they'll hate you. Smurfahontas is proof of this.

We'll see how things go, because overall, I think 2009 was a terrible year for movies. Not like 2007 which brought us masterpieces like "There Will Be Blood" and "No Country For Old Men."

Still, nice to see animation getting a Best Picture nod. That hasn't happened since "Beauty and the Beast" which, as great as it was, rightfully lost to "The Silence of the Lambs."

Greg Bishansky

lvl27_cubone> I fact, I jsut bought - and watched - Up for the first time, and I liked it. Good picture. Deserved the Best Picture nomination it got. Incidentally, that's why I bought it... because it's a best picture nominee. (I collect them on DVD; out of 475 best picture nominees since 1927-28, I own 412 of them on DVD. Now THAT'S Crazy.)

lvl27_cubone> I am jealous of you too; I seen inside Pixar, but only on TV. Congrats.

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

cubone> That's amazing! Reminds me of my love of Beauty and the Beast, which I saw about thirty times in theaters. Pity the internet wasn't really a factor then, or maybe I would have had an experience as cool as yours. Enjoy the tour and give us a full report when you get back.

Wilman> Assuming this Phineas and Ferb convention is real, I really don't think you going is a good idea. First of all, you'll be paying to go to a convention for a show you clearly don't like. Second, I doubt many people at a Phineas and Ferb convention are going to want to listen to someone who only wants to talk about another show and has no interest in the show they're gathered to celebrate. How would you feel if you went to a Gathering (or some convention for something you like that's still going on) and only wanted to talk about Phineas and Ferb and watch Phineas and Ferb DVDs and tell people they should go to the Phineas and Ferb convention? Would it make you any more likely to watch the show or attend the con? Probably not. You'd probably just feel angry at this person.

As other people and I have mentioned, the 2009 Gathering was the last one and there are no current plans for a new Gargoyles convention. So there is no con to promote. Showing up on the day of the con - any con - with your own DVDs to show is probably not going to fly. Convention organizers work very hard to schedule activities for their attendees and would likely not look kindly on someone trying to get them to show DVDs unrelated to the focus of the con at the very last minute. If you actually were a Phineas and Ferb fan who also liked Gargoyles, I'd see nothing wrong with you going to the con and talking up the show and the comic to your fellow fans. But since you clearly aren't I think you'd end up doing more harm than good.

Demonskrye - [<---The Animated Oscars at The Ink and Pixel Club]

And if it was stated he was a male, how the heck did they know that? Is it because Males are just more likely to destroy Tokyo? There go all the PMS jokes, right out the window then....

;-)

Madame M

Harlan Phoenix> Oh crap, Godzilla is real??

I like Lurker's connection that they are all male but the Godzilla in the last recent remake was a female. I suppose though that Lurker was going by the original but hey, how can we be sure he was a male in the original? Do we just assume or was it specifically stated that he was a male? ;-)

Madame M

Battle Beast>Haha, yeah, it was pretty nuts. Best 500 bucks I've spent though, I don't regret a single bit of it. Even without the payoff I'm getting, the film is good enough. Pixar blows my mind. If only the best of both worlds could converge,... Pixar doing Gargoyles,.... Wow. Hehe

Also, I'll be sure to tell you all how the tour goes, since you seem interested. :D

lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

Bishansky>What do a Disney sponsored Phineas and Ferb convention, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, Obama's Kenyan birth certificate, Godzilla, and a boy trapped in a balloon all have in common?

Thats too easy. They all pertain to males. Phineas and Ferb: Males. Tooth fairy: Upcoming movie starring by Dwayne Johnson, a male. Easter Bunny: Gives chocolate to kids, approx. 50% of which are males. Obama's Kenyan birth certificate: Refers to a male. Godzilla: Male Boy trapped in a balloon: Male.

W00t!

Lurker

Madame M>...Godzilla isn't real?

=(

Harlan Phoenix

lvl27_cubone> ANd I thought my seeing Inglourious Basterds Nine times was crazy... You story... that's amazing!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Wait... wait.. I think I know, they don't exist? :D
Madame M

Come on, Greg, give us a hint. Does it have something to do with Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson?
Patrick
"It's a small world but I wouldn't want to paint it." - Steven Wright

They like big butts and they cannot lie?
Harlan Phoenix

Okay, here is a riddle.

What do a Disney sponsored Phineas and Ferb convention, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, Obama's Kenyan birth certificate, Godzilla, and a boy trapped in a balloon all have in common?

Greg Bishansky

Can I be a guest speaker at Ferbcon?
Harlan Phoenix

Every one of those twelve years after the first con in 1997 was "giving it another chance." All good things... etc., etc.

Still can't find any info about a Phineas and Ferb con. Google and Yahoo usually turn up something for me. :/

Patrick
"It's a small world but I wouldn't want to paint it." - Steven Wright

>Anityonder, many thanks for the tips.

>Wilman, I don't see any information either, what are the links?

Madame M

Apologies for the double post, I meant 50 instead of 5000. (not 50 instead of 100)
lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

yeah well let's just hope for the both of us, oh and guys you guys the ones who sold the comics at the san diego comicon, do you have any left? send them to me, i'd like to give them out to the phineas and ferb fans so they can read them and experience it, i know it may have to be for free, but it's worth it, if it means attracting more people to Gargoyles, so do you have any left? If not i'll just have to buy a few myself, also i don't know if they'll have it, i mean it'll probably be a bigger convention than the gathering, but if like the gathering there'll be a room where people can sit and watch the dvds and episodes of the show, i'll try to bring Gargoyles DVDS and put them on and show them to the fans and others, i don't know if they'll allow me to do that but i'll try, all we can do is hope so wish mwe luck and i wish you luck, let's hope for the bes. and what There's no Gathering this year, no, that was the last Gathering, No, it can't be, The GAthering has been here for so long, i'm sure more people will make it this year, give it another chance, please, Phineas And Ferb are going to have A Convention this year so should Gargoyles, Gargoyles was First.
Wilman.
Wilman.

yeah well let's just hope for the both of us, oh and guys you guys the ones who sold the comics at the san diego comicon, do you have any left? send them to me, i'd like to give them out to the phineas and ferb fans so they can read them and experience it, i know it may have to be for free, but it's worth it, if it means attracting more people to Gargoyles, so do you have any left? If not i'll just have to buy a few myself, also i don't know if they'll have it, i mean it'll probably be a bigger convention than the gathering, but if like the gathering there'll be a room where people can sit and watch the dvds and episodes of the show, i'll try to bring Gargoyles DVDS and put them on and show them to the fans and others, i don't know if they'll allow me to do that but i'll try, all we can do is hope so wish mwe luck and i wish you luck, let's hope for the bes. and what There's no Gathering this year, no, that was the last Gathering, No, it can't be, The GAthering has been here for so long, i'm sure more people will make it this year, give it another chance, please, Phineas And Ferb are going to have A Convention this year so should Gargoyles, Gargoyles was First.
Wilman.
Wilman.

Demonskrye>I thought you'd never ask! Haha, you just opened a huge can of worms ma'am, big post ahead.

So, basically, this is the story of my newfound Pixar fandom. It actually kinda started with Gargoyles if you wanna get technical, which is one thing I wanted to mention to Greg on here. The question form better be back up soon,....

About 2 years ago, the first glimpse of Up emerged in the form of the teaser of the house floating past the camera, Carl Fredricksen sitting on the porch, and utters simply, "Afternoon." That teaser was enough to garner my interest in the film, mostly in the character design of Carl, and the obscurity of the teaser. So when full-blown trailers were released, I was elated to find that the voice of our beloved Hudson, Ed Asner, was voicing the old man, who even turned out to be the main character of the film, I started to become obsessed with the film. Huge Asner fan.

I researched all I could about the film before its release, which probably wasn't the best idea, considering how much I knew about it before I watched it. Still, I thoroughly enjoyed the film on May 29th, the night of its release. Then, I told my mother about it, as I had seen it with 2 of my friends, and we both went and saw it together. That second viewing changed everything - I fell in absolute freaking love with the film. I was determined to watch it as many times as humanly possible. I followed through.

About 6 weeks later, I hit a landmark. I was at 24 theatrical viewings, 18 being in 3D, 6 in 2D, full price, every single ticket. I also stayed after every showing until the credits finished rolling. Love those credits. I averaged approximately 4 viewings a week. I didn't go more than 3 days without seeing Up for a month and a half, and it was still captivating me at every showing. On the 25th, it was the last day of my local theater's showing. I went all out. I went to the local party store, literally bought 25 balloons, my mother called the theater to ask if I could bring them inside (I had no idea she did that until just before I went, I was planning on tying them to my car and leaving them outside while I watched it) and they agreed. I documented the entire thing, and one of the theater employees actually put a video of part of it on youtube, though I can't find it. I'll post it if you guys want, and I manage to find it again.

That night, I wrote a 6-page letter to director, Pete Docter, telling him about the whole thing. The film literally changed my life, and I couldn't be more serious about that statement. I now am dead set on working at Pixar. Nothing could make me happier. Up brought out an artist in me. I had no drawing ability whatsoever until about 3 weeks after watching the film. The first drawing on my dA (lvl27-cubone.deviantart.com) happened about 3 weeks after seeing the film, and I could not believe what I had done. The semester before, I took an art foundations class required for my game development degree (I'm a huge gamer), and that drawing looks like someone else had drawn it entirely. It was like a new person had emerged inside of me or something, it was a bona-fide miracle.

About 2 months later, it hit dollar theaters. I lost my mind. I ended up doubling my viewings from 25-50. After that, I duplicated a feat that Toy Story 3 director Lee Unkrich performed several months before: Smashing his face into a cake to celebrate 5000 twitter followers. I did the same, but my cake said 50 instead of 100. I compiled a youtube video declaring all these feats, as a tribute to the greatest film I had ever seen (seriously, I cannot get over this movie. And it got nominated for Best Picture at the Oscars! I about died on the morning of Feb. 2nd when they announced that). I posted the video to all the Pixar workers I followed on twitter (keep in mind, during all this madness, I became very fluently schooled in Pixar's history and know about many, many of their employees, as well as throwing 2 marathons, spanning the entire Pixar library of 10 films) and the morning after I sent it, I was told that it was making the rounds at the studio. I now have about 3 contacts up there, and Pete Docter sent me a copy of the film's art book (I have 2 copies now), signed, and drawn inside, as well as 2 balloons from the German premiere, a 2 page written letter, and a signed production still, all addressed directly to me. One of the technical producers at Pixar as well sent me a few gifts for my insanity as well, and TS3 Director Lee Unkrich sent me 2 Up-themed t-shirts for my trouble.

Also, I dressed up as Russell for Halloween. Best. Costume. Ever.

That technical producer I mentioned, Mike Frederickson, is the one pulling the strings for me at the studio, and now I'm going on a tour next week.

So, there you have it. I'm sure I missed a few details in there, but there's the general overview. I'm kind of known over there now, it's pretty surreal! :D

lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

Wilman > We don't have any flyers. There's no Gathering happening this year. The 13th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles that took place last summer was our last con for the foreseeable future. And I'm sure anyone would agree, it would make little sense to go to another Disney show's con and harangue any Disney people in attendance there about why they aren't supporting a convention that isn't happening.

I don't know if Disney is or is not sponsoring a Phineas and Ferb con. If they are, that's their decision. But it's not true to say Disney never supported the Gathering. In 2004, they sent a film crew to the Montreal con. There was one year where they sent to the con enough "Gargoyles" t-shirts and sweatshirts that everyone who attended went home with a freebie.

Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Sorryforthedoublepost...

cubone> How did you manage to land a tour of Pixar? I'm quite jealous and hope you will have a full report when you get back.

Demonskrye - [<---The Animated Oscars at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Wilman> Do you have a link to where you read about it? I've now done additional searches for any mention of a Phineas and Ferb convention from the San Diego ComicCon 2009 and I've got zip. I'd like to take you at your word, but it's hard to talk about something like this without first hand information. And if the convention is this summer, I would think there would at least be a website or some mention of it so fans could start planning to go.

I guess you haven't heard, but 2009 was the last Gathering. Long story short, attendance was too low to offset the costs. So there wouldn't be much point in promoting a convention that isn't going to happen.

Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Wilman>I'd say go for it, but I'm not sure how far you'd get. Interesting story though, I'll be getting a tour of Pixar next week. Thursday to be precise, I'll be flying out on Wednesday. If I'm fortunate enough, I'll get to meet Mr. Lasseter himself, and if I do, I'm gonna try to discuss some stuff with him about shows. I'm definitely intending on bringing up Gargoyles. This is all hypothetical at this point, it's harder to contact him than it is to see the pope. We'll see what happens though, I'm really eager for this trip. Quite possibly the greatest event in my entire life I imagine.

Still, if you can try to talk to anyone, I think it's worth a shot, there's certainly no harm in it. At the least, you could see if you could convince someone to include Gargoyles in a bigger convention, and try to pull more fanbase from that. It could help some I suppose. More power to ya though, I think you've got a great plan set out, it just depends on the other side whether or not it works.

lvl27_Cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

The Convention is Supported by Disney, i read it and it was said in the 2009 San Diego Comicon, uggghh, i can't believe disney would support this and not The Gathering, You Know What, Jenniffer Crazy Anderson Do You have any Pamphlets Of The Gathering? I'm going to go to that convention and give to the fans the pamphlets and say come to The Gathering Of The Gargoyles, It's Disney's Truest Better Series, and i'll place them all around the convention, i'll even corner Disney employees and ask them why they'd support This Convention but not The Gathering. Who's With Me?
Wilman.
Wilman.

The Convention is Supported by Disney, i read it and it was said in the 2009 San Diego Comicon, uggghh, i can't believe disney would support this and not The Gathering, You Know What, Jenniffer Crazy Anderson Do You have any Pamphlets OF The Gathering? I'm going to go to that convention and give to the fans the pamphlets and say come to The Gathering Of The Gargoyles, It's Disney's Truest Better Series, and i'll place them all around the convention, i'll even corner Disney employees and ask them why they'd support This Convention but not The Gathering. Who's With Me?
Wilman.
Wilman.

BATTLE BEAST - Yep, I saw that episode, and parts of "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" reminded me of it; for example, it included the story about Scrooge earning his first dime shining shoes as a boy in Scotland. Incidentally, Gemstone Publishing also did a special two-volume reprint of several Carl Barks stories that were the inspiration for some of the "DuckTales" episodes (such as Scrooge's quest for the Golden Fleece or the Beagle Boys stealing a group of construction robots), complete with a commentary comparing and contrasting the Barks stories with the television episodes that they inspired. You might be interested in those as well.

One tidbit in "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" that a lot of "Gargoyles" fans would be interested in: in the first chapter, one of Scrooge's Scottish ancestors was mentioned as helping out Macbeth in "the civil war of 1057". (Macbeth thanked him by giving him a huge chest of gold; unfortunately, Scrooge's ancestor, while hiding it in a secret part of his castle to keep it safe from thieves, accidentally walled himself in with it.)

Todd Jensen

Some fanfics I'd recommend:

- Rhapsody written by Greg B: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4818572/1/Rhapsody

- A list of fanfics written by Harvester of Eyes: http://fanfic.gargoyles-fans.org/author.php?author=Harvester%2Bof%2BEyes&sortorder=DESC (I recommend Tis The Season and Return of the Mayhem of the Revenge)

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Madame M.> Try fanfiction.net or fanfic.gargoyles-fans.org. I just finished an outline for a story where Broadway is learning to read. It takes place after High Noon.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]

Where can I find a good Fanfic for Gargoyles? I really like to write and I do a lot of Fanfic for different genres, particularly books that I've enjoyed reading. Some people do not like them because they feel it desecrates something sacred or violates copyrights and in some cases it does but if the author or creator give permission, sometimes its fun.
Madame M

Demonskrye> :)
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Wilman> I'm having trouble finding this Phineas and Ferb convetion that you're talking about. Googling "Phineas ad Ferb convention/con" turned up nothing. Do you have a link with information on it? Without any info, it's tough for me to know whether Disney is really sponsoring this convention, since the fact that it's at a Disney World hotel doesn't necessarily mean that Disney is funding it. It's possible though. If Disney is in fact putting up money for this con, it pretty much comes down to what they're trying to promote at the time. The first Gathering was in 1997 and the last episodes of "The Goliath Chronicles aired in February of that yeat. So Gargoyles was already falling off Disney's radar. Like it or not Phineas and Ferb is something Disney is actively invested in right now, something they se as a moneymaker. So they may think it's worth their while to help fans get together for a convention, if that is what they're doing.

Batlle Beast> I know you asked Todd, but since I'm here, this is the book in question. There is a softcover edition that was published before through Gemstone, but it came out a few years ago and people are asking quie a bit for it on Amazon.

http://tinyurl.com/yf75ne8

As for the nephews' parents, [SPOILER] they're the children of Donald's twin sister Della Duck and an unknown male duck, who Rosa has apparently said is Daisy Duck's brother, though I just found this out. (Daisy and Donald are unrelated, though often romantically involved. "Duck" is just a very common surname, like "Jones" or "Smith." Scrooge is Donald's uncle, making him Huey, Dewey, and Louie's great uncle.) Neither Carl Barks nor Don Rosa ever revealed the identity of the nephews' father, nor the circumstances that led to them living in Donald's care. Some other duck writers have suggested that the kids were simply too wild for their parents to handle and were sent to live with Donald, a concept that seems to draw more from their personalities in the animated shorts than the way Barks portrayed them.

Incidentally, in their debut cartoon, the nephews' arrival is preceded by a letter from Donald's sister "Dumbella Duck." A newspaper strip that retold the story of the cartoon (though it ran before the cartoon debuted) had the letter signed by Donald's "cousin Della." I've always found the similarity between the two names fun. Rosa has suggested that Donald may have nicknamed his sister "Dumbella" in their younger years. [/SPOILER]

Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Todd> I was wondering if you saw the episode of Ducktales where Scrooge explains his life, and how he became rich, and that he truly didn't feel rich until that moment with his family.

Also, all this talk about Scrooge has got me interested in the book you are talking about - life and times - who publishes it? I want to check it out.

One last thing, do you happen to know who Huey, Dewy and Louie's parents are?

Thanks, Todd!

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Ugghhhh, Phineas And Ferb, Keep Gargoyles Away From Them, Such a great series shouldn't be mixed with such low dirt as that, not even in Fan Fiction, it was terrible, Bronx Falling in love with Isabella's poodle, Lexington being outsmarted by Phineas and Ferb, and Stephanie Canmore, what kind of name is that for a Canmore? Names of other Canmores like Fiona, Jon, Robyn, Charles, But Stephanie, Phineas And Ferb maybe but not for a Canmore. And To Think Phineas And Ferb are going to have thier own Convention this summer in one of The Walt Disney World Hotels sponsored by Disney, peh, Give me the Gathering Of The Gargoyles anytime, Hey Jennifer and whoever else is in charge of the gathering, of you're there, i'd like to ask, how do you feel about this that disney won't support your convention but they'll support that one?
Wilman.
Wilman.

Todd> I seem to recall my husband reading some of Rosa's notes that are included with many of his comics and telling me that [SPOILER] he had originally intended to make it a story about Hortense and Scrooge, but decided against it when he realized he couldn't accurately explain where she had been during whatever family crisis left Huey, Dewey, and Louie in Donald's care. I guess Matilda was less on the hook because she was the young ducks great aunt rather than their grandmother. [/SPOILER]

Anyway, it's a really great story (though I've yet to read a Rosa story I didn't like) and you should definitely try to track it down.

Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Thanks, Supermorff.
Todd Jensen

Todd> Not sure if you're still interested, but I just saw your question to Greg about the word "Saeth" that Brother Valmont uses to summon his fiery arrows. You may have looked it up since, but saeth is a Gaelic word and means "arrow".
Supermorff

DEMONSKRYE - I haven't read that one yet, though I'd certainly like to. I did discover that it involves [SPOILER] the return of Scrooge's sister Matilda from "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck", and their reconciliation after their estrangement in Chapter Eleven of "Life and Times". [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen

Andrea - Welcome! Greg has been trying to revive Gargoyles for years, but it's not his decision since the property is owned by Disney. However, Greg has recently continued the Gargoyles storyline (the real 3rd season) in comic book form. They're published by SLG:

http://tinyurl.com/gargoylescomics

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I was wondering if Greg ever plans on reviving the Gargoyles series. A lot of people are asking about it.
Andrea Falle - [redwalllover32 at gmail dot com]
Andrea Falle

::glances in the vague direction of her signed copy of "Life and Time of Scrooge McDuck":: Yeah, I've read it. :)

I've read some of Rosa's other duck comics, though not nearly enough. If you haven't read it yet, I think you would really like "A Letter From Home, or The Old Castle's Other Secret" (one story, two names), in which Scrooge and family pay a visit to the McDuck family home in Scotland.

Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

DEMONSKRYE - I'm sorry that your article is now down, but I'm glad that Rosa wrote to you about it - and that you were pleased over my mention of it. I don't know if you've read his "Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck", but if you haven't, I highly recommend it.

(I've read a few of Rosa's other stories, in special connections that pair them with some of Carl Barks' original stories that inspired them; one of my favorites was a sequel to Barks' "Golden Helmet" story. One of Rosa's Donald Duck stories that I haven't read yet - only read about it on the Internet - but would like to read, is "The Once and Future Duck", in which Donald Duck and his nephews go back to Dark Age Britain via a time machine of Gyro Gearloose's to encounter King Arthur - only this Arthur is not the familiar legendary king who presided over Camelot, but an early British warlord that most historians think that the real Arthur, if he existed, was. Arthur mistakes Donald and his nephews for Saxon spies, with near-disastrous results for them. Of course, nobody in the comment room is going to be surprised that I take particular interest in this story!)

And I have to agree with you on the effect of time; while I'd certainly buy any new graphic novels that came out, just as I eagerly went out to buy the ones we've already had, I'll have to be honest and admit that I've moved on enough to other things that I wouldn't be too devastated if SLG doesn't get to make any more.

Todd Jensen

Wingless> I noticed the YTV robot MANY times (One of my fav eps of the series, another is the one where Bob is driving a car with a bomb in it... in a game). I never realised that the two from Money For Nothing were those two. I have seen the episode many times, though not in a long time... I should watch it on Teletoon Retro...
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Landon Thomas - oooh, more statue views! Yay! Now all we need is to find out How much and when.

Battle Beast. In the Same Reboot Episode. The 2 characters from the Dire Strates video "Money For Nothing" also audition-and are booed off the stage! The YTV Robot(the station's mascott at the time) also makes a cameo.

Wingless

Here's some more angles on the Electric Tiki Goliath statue: http://maskedavengerstudios.blogspot.com/2010/02/gargoyles.html
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Look, it really isn't my intention to a huge downer. I'm not totally pessimistic about Gargoyles ever coming back in any form. I would be very happy if SLG got the license to do new graphic novels. I don't think it's realistic to assume that they would be able to keep printing new ones for years and years to come, but even if we got just five complete graphic novels out of the deal, that would be more new material then we've had in quite some time. I'd love to see the rest of season two come out on DVD too and I think that's within the realm of possibility. But beyond that, I'm not holding my breath. The one thing I think we pretty much all agree on is that nothing is going to happen until Disney sees the property as a viable moneymaking opportunity. And while I don't believe that all we need to do is sit back and wait for 90s nostalgia to kick in, I'm also not someone who's decided that it's pointless to try anything because Disney hates Gargoyles.

There are things that people can do if they really want to see Gargoyles come back in any form. But the one enemy that no one can really do anything about is time. The more time passes, the more people forget about Gargoyles or move on to something else or simply lose interest. To a degree, I include myself as one of those people. It's not that I completely don't care anymore, but I'm not as passionate about the series as I was back when it was on the air or even for several years after. And it isn't just Gargoyles. I used to watch The Simpsons religiously. Now, I still pick up the DVD sets, but I haven't watched a new episode in ages. X-Files was a big deal for me and my husband back in the day, but we've never bought any of the DVD sets and completely ignored the new movie. In some cases, there was a change that caused me to lose interest, but more often, it was just me moving on to something else.

So why do I keep coming here? People I like, occasional conversations I like, and - at the height of my self interest - to plug my blog. But mostly, it's to keep up to date on the latest news. For all its flaws, the comment room has kind of always been here and I can count on it more than any other site to stay up to date on what's going on with Gargoyles. I may not care as much as I once did, but I still want to see any new material that comes out and pick up some of the merchandise that I find appealing. That's most of my motivation.

Todd, I'm flattered that you remember that Scrooge article I wrote, which I think has been taken down since. Getting a response to that piece from Don Rosa himself remains one of the highlights of my animation writing "career," such as it is.

Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Sorry for killing the conversation in the comment room once again.
Todd Jensen

WILMAN - Your remark about why Greg Weisman doesn't read fanfiction (or look at original ideas about "Gargoyles", for that matter) reminds me of a Scrooge McDuck comic by Don Rosa entitled "The Dream of a Lifetime" that I recently read; one of Rosa's readers suggested the idea to him, and it so delighted him that, despite his knowledge of the dangers, he couldn't resist using it as a story. He explained in his commentary on it (in "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck Companion" - not to be confused with the original "Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck", but linked to it) why such an act was inadvisable.

The story itself, despite that, is an extremely good one. The Beagle Boys steal one of Gyro Gearloose's inventions that allows them to enter Scrooge McDuck's dreams, planning to work out the combination to his money bin when they confront him in there (since it's one of Scrooge's dreams, if he merely thinks about the combination - as he will when they ask him about it - will lead to his blurting it out). They're expecting his dreams to be about his money bin; to their surprise, instead, Scrooge's dreams are about the many lively adventures he's had during his long career (confronting Frank and Jesse James in the Old West, battling river pirates on the Mississippi, prospecting for gold in the Klondike, etc.) - tying in with Demonskrye's essay that she linked to some time ago that Scrooge's real interest is in adventure rather than money (appropriately, the Scrooge McDuck story that she used to explain her thesis, about Scrooge encountering Vainamoinen from the "Kalevala", was also written by Don Rosa). Things heat up even more when Donald Duck enters Scrooge's dreams to help him against the Beagle Boys - with the added danger that if Scrooge wakes up while Donald and the Beagle Boys are still in his dreams, they'll be trapped inside his head forever, with dreadful consequences for all of them. A lot of great moments there, including a simultaneously touching and funny scene where Donald, visiting Glasgow during Scrooge's boyhood, meets his own mother (Scrooge's younger sister Hortensia) as a child.

Todd Jensen

Patrick>I more or less agree with this, but I can understand where Demonskrye is coming from as well. Do think that people should be more positive about the whole idea, but I guess being isolated from any sort of new Gargoyles stuff outside of the comics and Greg's spot on here can tend to make people a bit hopeless. I'm not in that position, as I didn't watch the show much when I was younger. I came into the game about 4 years ago, put it down for a while, and rediscovered it on a whim, so I haven't been put through quite the same torture. Also, I'm kind of in a point in my life where I'm really discovering what I want to do with myself in a few years, and I'm really starting to get into the work I wanna do. Gargoyles compliments that very well, since I'm wanting to get into the animation industry, so there's another reason I'm so hopeful about the whole thing. I guess it just depends on person to person, but at least your head is still in a high place about the situation. :)
lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

Just read a Gargoyles fan fiction which was a crossover between Phineas And Ferb/Gargoyles, besides those not being the best of what to combine (Indiana Jones And Talespin) that series isn't really and the story sucked almost sucked as bsd as a goliath chronicles episode, fox was out of character as much as she was in ransom, i'm glad Greg never reads fan fiction or he'd get the idea of making a real Phineas and Ferb/Gargoyles Crossover.
Wilman.
Wilman.

Well if the core of the fandom is going to be so bloody pessimistic about it... the argument could certainly be made that why should Disney bother? Crikey, can't we at least wait until kickoff to decide the home team's going to lose?

I'm beginning to feel more and more and more like Statler and Waldorf around here... and not just because I'm getting old. "Why do we always come here? I guess we'll never know..."

Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Patrick> Sorry, no. However, Bill Murry keeps walking past me about once every 10 minutes...

Wingless> I loved that song since the first time I heard it, and it was only on my second time seeing it that I got what it meant. Now it is as funny as ever!

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

I don't intend to be a pessimist; I intend to be a realist. I know that statement can sometimes be used to justify having totally negative views, but I honestly don't mean to sound totally gloom and doom. I do think we'll eventually see 90s nostalgia hit, even if I do feel like it's taking longer than it took 80s nostalgia to become a big factor. What I'm less certain of is whether Gargoyles is going to riding that nostalgia train in any kind of meaningful way. If 90s nostalgia turns out to be big business, Disney might feel inclined to make an effort to put out some more merchandise. But as Phil points out, we're pretty well into the return of all things 80s and we aren't exactly swimming in DuckTales merchandise right now. Again, I don't completely blame Disney. Certainly they would be putting more effort into marketing their older properties, but I don't see it as Disney being too lazy to reach up and pick the low-hanging fruit. It seems like people need more of a nudges to remember Gargoyles or DuckTales and want to buy the DVDs and other merchandise than they do to pick up DVD releases of The Simpsons or TransFormers. As people other than me have noted previously, a lot of TV shows come out on DVD with very little advertising and are still big sellers because word of mouth travels or people see copies in stores and pick them up on a whim.

I'm not saying that I know for certain that the 90s nostalgia won't net Gargoyles anything. But the opportunity that it presents is only one piece of the puzzle. Thinking that there will be a Gargoyles movie in the future because there are TransFormers and G.I. Joe movies now is overly optimistic. Part of the reason these films happened was because the properties had a parent company who was still very interested in doing something with those brands. If Disney still feels like the people who watched Gargoyles as kids aren't interested in it anymore, then a resurgence of interest in some of the major 90s brands isn't going to be enough to make them give Gargoyles another try.

Demonskrye - [<---"Toy Story 2" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

battle Beast - The funniest thing about the reboot/ABC story is how they censored Dot Matrix. Notice in Season 1 & 2 that she has one large(pardon the expression) Uni-boob. She doesn't have 2 breasts, just one large chest that sticks out(She wasn't allowed to have breasts). Once the show was revived by YTV in season 3, notice the change-especially in the first episode. There's a scene where Dot is rebooted into an Evira/Morticia Adams character with a low cut dress and Enzo is a Michael Jackson type zombie. Dot trips on the dress and falls down-and enzo looks down and his eye falls out-and you see a view from his eye, dangling from its veins, bobbing up and down aiming for Dot's cleavage.

You also have to love the stab at ABC in the first ep of season 2 called Talent Night. Dot's auditioning acts for Enzo's birthday. One of them is an Village people parody group doing a song called "B,S & P" "We love to play in a non violent way". Zzzzzzing!

Wingless

Though I don't like to be pessimistic, I think Demonskrye makes some good points. And there's another reason I could add for why Gargoyles may miss the 90's nostalgia wave: Disney isn't participating much in the current 80's wave. How much Gummi Bear, DuckTales, and Rescue Ranger merchandise have you seen? Where are these shows being rebroadcast? (Not on Toon Disney; that's gone, too.) When are they going to finish the DVD releases of these shows? Even if Gargoyles gets the same marketing treatment as the other Disney Afternoon programming (which it never did), it doesn't look pretty.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Barracuda> Are you talking about the recently ended webcomic continuation or the supposed film trilogy that's supposed to come out this year?

Patrick> You are not Bill Murray. Heh.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

GROUNDHOG DAY!

Does anyone else have a strange feeling of deja vu?

Patrick
"This day used to mean something. They used to pull the rat out and eat 'im!" - Phil Connors

Landon: while I too have seen the generic Spider-Man Kraft Mac&Cheese, I've seen for more than a year now Spectacular Spider-Man Kraft Mac&Cheese as well, and I've made a point to only buy that version d:

Nothing says show loyalty than show-themed Mac&Cheese . . . expect maybe a can of show-themed soup ;)

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Well, Dragon Ball Z had and still has a huge fanbase in Japan, and the recent special that aired was kind of like the Turtles Forever special, something to celebrate it longevity. But ReBoot is supposed to be returning, but there's only been a bit of leaked information in the form of teasers. I don't know if 90's nostalgia would have the impact of 80's nostalgia, but there's so many properties ripe for a continuation or a soft reboot.
The Barracuda

Burger King has new Spectacular Spider-Man toys out: http://keepspideyalive.ning.com/profiles/blogs/tssm-swings-into-whatever Toys are a huge license opportunity for cartoons and this proves TSSM still has commercial interest. I've seen generic "Amazing Spider-Man" stuff on Kraft Macaroni & Cheese since the show came out, so the fact that there's *new* interest in Spectacular is good news.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I really like reading up on these thoughts, they're all very good. I think Patrick makes the best point. I think it'll be a while before Gargoyles should hit the wave, if it ever does (and it should). Give it a few years, and I might have a decent job, and I can bask in the hopeful return of the series. It'd be in good interest for Disney I think, assuming the people that look into it will be in a good position to invest in merchandise, and the mature themes of the show should be able to hold interest in the audience, as well as catering to the kiddies with the action and characters. I think Pixar does a good job of this, making the older audiences happy while still entertaining the kids.

That's one thing I love about animation in general that far too many people overlook. It's treated as a genre, and it's a medium. It's just as capable of conveying mature themes and is just as compelling as live film. Pixar again showcases this dramatically. Look at Up. I'm pretty sure that anyone who's cried watching a film cracked a tear in the opening, if not in several other spots. Also, it's a huge contender for Best Picture at the Oscars this year, which WHEN it gets nominated (I have 100% confidence in it) should open some eyes to both critics and the population that animation isn't so childish after all. At least I hope it does. Disney's use of traditional animation in Princess and the Frog was also a sight for sore eyes, and the quality of the film itself just improves that. Disney better stick with it, the medium must stay.

Sorry for going so off topic on this, but I think the mixture of themes and action in Gargoyles parallels Pixar's approach to animation pretty well, and I'm a huge Pixar geek. Kinda turned into a rant, hehe. But yeah, I think the best approach for any sort of return is to wait a few years, as anxious as I am.

lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

More kids are going to be watching TV in the mornings, I guess...

TRUE> Forrest Whitaker's Daughter is named True. Neat-o fact.

battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

battle Beast> Afternoon syndicated shows as well as primetime programming tend to get leeway in terms of S&P. Reboot was of course Saturday Morning.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Wingless> Reboot was a staple in my childhood. So was Beasties. I find it mind-boggleing that ABC could censor Reboot... I mean, come on! There is NOTHING in that show the least bit questionable... The Simpsons is OK, and yet Reboot gets edited? Puh-lease!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

Sorry for the double post, but Dragonball Z was also a strong presence in the 90's and we had a Dragonball movie very recently...even though it was low budget, underadvertised, and crud. Much like Dragonball Z itself!
Harlan Phoenix

Power Rangers is currently aired on ABC Kids in a slightly modified version of the first season, arguably already tapping into 90's nostalgia. Food for thought, though I wouldn't call it the type of revival most franchises are probably bound to get.

It's sort of like how you half ass the nostalgia market. But it's present.

Harlan Phoenix

People in their early 20s just out of college and job-hunting in an economy that's only just beginning to crawl out of a deep recession aren't the group I would want to market to if I was selling cartoon nostalgia. People in their late 20s into their 30s with disposable income and young children of their own to share their nostalgia with would be my choice market. Give "Gargoyles" (and the rest of the Disney Afternoon) some time before crying "DOOM!" re: the 90s nostalgia wave.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Speaking as someone who gets most of his entertainment from video games, I'm starting to think that the video game industry is getting a "90s nostalgia wave" of its own, since GOG.com and the Wii's Virtual Console seem to be successful. Most of those games date back to the late 80s and the 90s.

On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily translate into nostalgia for the movies or TV shows of the 90s.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

I think the 90s nostalgia boom will hit. Having lived through the 70s when the 50s craze came back, and in the 1980s when the 1960s was the big thing(I'm still living that one myself-doing a 1960s radio show for 25 years-but I digress). It really took until 1973 for the 50s thing to kick in, so we may have to wait a bit yet.

As for the whole hype on *gasp* Power Rangers-alot of that was just that, hype because of the so called "Violence". In Canada-the show was actually edited for violence in its first season(not that I watch it, but it was a big news item at the time). The Canadian network(Global Television) aired an censored Power rangers - while kids could still watch the US stations and get the real deal. It was kinda like how "Beast Wars" was called "Beasties" in Canada - and it was a Canadian production for crying out loud! Other fun 90s shows were "Bump In The Night"(gotta love Jim Cummings!), "Reboot(a show that got no respect from ABC-who censored the hell out of it until the finally cancelled it-and it survived 2 seasons beyond ABC).
Gargoyles was the ultimate - but we all know that. I think the upcoming statue is a nice little reminder that the show is still well loved - despite Disney's lack of respect of their own vintage TV properties.

Wingless

Sure the 90s Nostalgia wave might help, but it shouldn't be a substitute for working hard. The main reason why the comics and DVDs failed was due to lack of purchases from members of the fanbase who wanted to wait for all episodes to be released as well as waiting for the trade rather than buying individual issues.

The reason why we even got those products was due to hardwork (convention attenders for some and purchasing the existing products).

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

DEMONSKRYE> While I do think the 90s nostalgia wave is coming I still understand your concerns. I think the issue is two fold, I do believe 90s nostalgia will be our best chance but all the opportunity in the world means squat if there's nobody with the brains or the imagination to take advantage of it.

As the Ninth Rule of Acquisition says: Opportunity plus instinct equals profit. Disney will soon have the opportunity but will they have the instincts and the faith to give any of their 90s properties a push?

Algernon

Before someone starts imitating the chirping crickets, I'll ask a question that I've been pondering lately. Does anyone aside from me think the chances for <i>Gargoyles</i> to ride a future 90s nostalgia wave are maybe not that great?

Here's my thinking.

First point: the 90s nostalgia wave has struck me as a little slow in coming. Maybe it is just me and I perceive the 80s nostalgia period as longer because I was more sensitive to 80s related stuff coming out due to living with a guy who was and is very interested in it. But I feel like I've heard people say for years now that the 90s nostalgia should be coming any day now. And in some ways, it has. I've seen some sprinklings of it here and there, most commonly in relation to the music, which seems to have a much faster turnover from "current" to "nostalgia" than other media. But nothing quite along the lines of the resurgence of interest in 80s properties. I almost hate to bring this up, but a kid who was at the young end of the target audience for <i>Gargoyles</i> when it debuted would be 22 today. The 90s babies are pretty well into the golden spot where people want to market to them, but the nostalgia boom just hasn't hit yet.

Secondly, when the 90s nostalgia boom does hit, and I believe it will, it could end up looking very different from the 80s one. One of the big differences between the 80s and the 90s in terms of TV shows aimed at kids is that there were not as many options in the 80s. Cable was still kind of a rare thing when I was growing up; only a couple of people I knew had it. You had four networks counting PBS and a couple of local channels that ran syndicated shows. Part of the effect of this was that you had more shows that everyone was watching. There were still shows that didn't end up being popular, but the ones that were successful were really successful because there weren't as many other choices. The 90s were somewhat different. Cable had come into more households. Home video was more of a factor. More channels were offering kids programming. Towarss the end of the decade, anime hit the mainstream in a big way. The market got more fragmented and while there were still big hits that just about everyone was watching, there were more alternatives. I can't say for certain what 80s nostalgia will focus on, but my guess is that there will be less properties getting attention than we're seeing with 80s nostalgia.

Last point: a rising tide does not necessarily raise all ships. Having the rights to an 80s property right now may give you something of a boost, since you can point to the fact that other 80s properties are currently doing big business. But it's not a sure bet. When was the last time you saw any <i>GoBots</i> branded merchandise? <i>Poochie</i>? <i>Bionic Six</i>? <i>Shirt Tales</i>? <i>Rude Dog</i>? There are any number of reasons that these properties haven't been revived; <i>GoBots</i>, for example, is an awful cartoon. But they're all 80s properties, most of which were pretty successful. If you see anything from these properties right now, it's going to be the occasional t-shirt or maybe a DVD release. Certainly not a movie or a full blown revival. <i>Gargoyles</i> did well in the 90s, but it wasn't a cultural phenomenon that everyone remembers from that era. The big shows for the 90s are shows like <i>Animaniacs</i>, <i>Pokemon</i> and - much as I"d rather not admit it - <i>Power Rangers</i>. I don't think the last of those has ever gone away long enough for people to really start to miss it, but I have seen shirts of the original logo showing up here and there. As long as Disney doesn't see an audience who already remembers <i>Gagoyles</i> and wants to consume more product based on it, it's going to be an uphill battle for it to get anyone's attention, 90s nostalgia or no.

Those are my thoughts anyways. Yours?

Demonskrye - [<---"Flash Gordon" at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Ten!

Or as the Romans would say... X!

Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

(9th)Ninth!!!!!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

8th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

Seventh ;)
lvl27_cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

Sixth!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

5th.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Fourth

Not often I'm up late enough for this. LOL

Kerry (Kth) Boyd

3rd!!!
battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.

2nd
*Bows to the 13 second Matt*

Wingless

FIRST!!!!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'