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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending November 22, 2010

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Greg - That's awesome. I always loved his Javert.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

What do Lord Oberon and Dr. Anton Sevarius have in common? Click my link to find out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_hIN_7_wxc

Greg Bishansky

Oh, right. My bad. Still, it'll be interesting to see early Third Race history.

Also, didn't Greg say that the Lost Race died out before the Third Race evolved? If so, that would be another pre-Humility Spell dance.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

MATT - The evidence we have so far suggests that Queen Mab was overthrown after Caesar Augustus' reign and the casting of the Humility Spell; Greg mentioned once that Oberon fathered Merlin before Mab's overthrow, and we know that Merlin was born in the fifth century. (And it's been hinted that Merlin might have helped Oberon overthrow Mab, and that this was why Oberon granted King Arthur sanctuary in Avalon.) But the others you mention do make possible pre-Humility Spell visits for Brooklyn.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

Though I don't think Greg has ever mentioned or even hinted at it, there are a few times before the Humility Spell was cast (aside from the dinosaur story) that Brooklyn might visit. I tend to think that Brooklyn will visit Atlantis at some point, for instance, which sank long before the Humility Spell. Also, the dethroning of Queen Mab and other early Third Race history might be explored. He might visit ancient Greece and witness the colonization of New Olympus, but I tend to think we would see that more in flashbacks of The New Olympians spinoff. I definitly think we'll get a glimpse of gargoyles during the human stone-age though to witness when humans first became a threat in any way to gargoyles.

But... we'll see.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

Of course, nearly all the time jumps that we know about are to periods after the Spell of Humility was cast: the Battle of Rathveramoen (997), 1970's America where Brooklyn, Mary, and Finella would eventually arrange the alliance between Xanatos and Demona, 2198, and feudal Japan (Brooklyn meeting Katana). We don't know, of course, where on the timeline Brooklyn would visit Xanadu and pick up Fu-Dog. Greg did hint at a dinosaur story at one point (of course, it might turn out to be Sevarius, or one of his successors, deciding to bring something bigger than thylacines back from the zoological graveyard!). But we'll have to wait and see.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

Matt> Or it affects all gargoyles who were hatched after the spell was cast. So a gargoyle hatched afterwards but time travelling back to before the spell might still be affected - I suspect something like this is more likely, because there could be a lot of jumps to times before the spell, and it would just be really inconvenient for Brooklyn, Katana and Gnash to have to find new clothes every single night for every one of those trips. From a storytelling perspective, I get that you might want to cover it once or twice, but having to deal with it every time seems unnecessary. But, yeah, I don't have a clue, and we'll have to wait and see.
Supermorff

Guess I'll be adding the new Young Justice comic to my pull list.

Also, anyone have any suggestions of places I can watch Young Justic online, at the same time as the premiere or shortly thereafter? I don't have a TV anymore but I do have a computer.

Rebel

Thanks Greg! That is very cool.

Darkwing Duck> I'll have to look into that. Thanks guys.

Antiyonder> "Brooklyn and The Humility Spell: Hard to say. The Magus who cast the spell in the first place did so with the aid of the Grimorum, The Eye of Odin and The Phoenix Gate. So Brooklyn may still be under the spell's effect."

- I get that, but if the spell would work on a gargoyle (Brookyn) in a time BEFORE the spell was cast, then I would think that the spell would work on every gargoyle for all time both before and after the spell was cast. And if that is the case, there is no reason for the Magus to cast the spell in the first place. Obviously, all the gargoyles in the world in the world in 1997 were not hatched yet when the spell was cast and yet it affects them. This implies to me that the spell was not cast on anyone in particular, including Brooklyn. I think rather that the spell was cast on gargoyles from that point in time onward. Which means a gargoyle before the time of the casting would be unaffected. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

MATT - They've brought out the first four issues of "Darkwing Duck" in trade paperback form.

That piece of "Young Justice" news reminds me of the Stone of Destiny story in the Gargoyles comics (though I doubt that the "Young Justice" episodes and comics will jump about as much on the timeline).

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

Young Justice (One-Hour Special Event)
Friday Nov 26th 7PM EST / 6PM CST

Title of the episode: [SPOILER] Independence Day [/SPOILER]

Brief description: [SPOILER] Teenage superheroes Robin, Aqualad, Kid Flash, Suberboy, Miss Martian and Artemis test their true potential as heroes [/SPOILER] in the pilot episodes of this animated series based on characters from the DC Comics universe.

Anthony Tini

I'm not a regular here, though I do post from time to time. I recently wrote an analysis of the portrayal of gargoyles in fan fiction, which mostly consists of taking grievance with attempts to make them seem more "human". Not to say that the authors *can't* write gargoyles this way, but it's something that's often bothered me, and I try to dig up why.

Mostly it's just me complaining about fanfic: enjoy!

http://pterobat.blogspot.com/2010/11/their-ways-are-not-our-ways.html

Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even dragonflies and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream"--Shirley Jackson

Wow, that's amazing! I wonder if there's ever been a TV show and written work released concurrently that tracked continuity like that. It's shows a real commitment to fleshing out the world.

Matt - The first 4 issues of DW were released in a collection last week: http://www.midtowncomics.com/store/dp.asp?PRID=Darkwing+Duck+The+Duck+Kn_1110582

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

All Young Justice television episodes and comic book issues will have captions stating place, month, day and time. So you can figure out EXACTLY where the comics fit - continuity-wise - relative to the television series and vice versa.
Greg Weisman

Matt>

Young Justice: There might be a footnote and even a guide of sorts on the site. At least I'm guessing.

Brooklyn and The Humility Spell: Hard to say. The Magus who cast the spell in the first place did so with the aid of the Grimorum, The Eye of Odin and The Phoenix Gate. So Brooklyn may still be under the spell's effect.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Young Justice> Is there a way to know where the comics fit into the series? Should I read/watch them as the are released or is there some sort of chronology to look at?

Darkwing Duck> I have to admit that despite never being a big DW fan, the comic has perked my interest. One of these days I might need to take a look. Hopefully, they'll release it in graphic novel form eventually.

Humility Spell> Reading Todd's recently answered question made me think of something. When Brooklyn TimeDances to a time before the spell was cast, will it affect him or not? I suspect the spell won't work on him at all before it was cast. Time is like a river afterall. The spell was never placed on him directly and it seems to me that when it was cast it affected all gargoyles from that point in time onwards, so gargoyles in the time before the spell (whether they arrived there from the future or were born there) wouldn't be affected. Right? Am I making sense? I know that at least some fanfics have had Brooklyn show up in Rome pre-Humility Spell being the only gargoyle under its influence, but that doesn't make sense for me. Plus, it would make a great character moment when Brook realizes the Spell is no longer affecting him. Maybe his own humility is part of the impetus for the casting in the first place.

Just a thought.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"

Greg Weisman> Now I was just going to pick the comic up as animated tie ins tend to be a fun diversion from the mainstream continuity, but hearing that news just gave me even more of an incentive to pick up the title.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Finally was able to pick up DW#6 and it truly is awesome, even with the Goliath Cameo. But I absolutely ADORED [SPOILER] the two page spread with all of those Alternate Universe Darkwings, at least 7 of them are personas he adopted during the show's run. (Such as the Pirate DW, The Punk DW, ArachnaDuck, The Werewolf Darkwing, and of course DarkWarrior Duck to name a few) I have to re-watch my DVDs to find the names of the others. [/SPOILER] and of course I am looking forward to the Young Justice Comic too, having just placed it on my Pull-Hold list today.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Cheese, it's as good an answer as any.

Actually, Kevin Hopps and I will be taking over the writing chores on the Young Justice comic full time, starting with issue #7. And in the meantime, we wrote issue #0 and are advising Art & Franco on Issues #1-6 to keep everything in continuity.
Greg Weisman
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/123-film

Antiyonder -

YOUNG JUSTICE #1
Written by ART BALTAZAR and FRANCO
Art and Cover by MIKE NORTON

From: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-february-2011-solicitations-101115.html

Greg's writing Young Justice #0 with Kevin Hopps, who is from his writing crew on the show. So I think #0 is more to promote the cartoon while Greg will maybe story edit or otherwise influence the rest of the comic series while someone else writes it.

They've dedicated a whole multiverse Earth to the series so many folks at DC will have a hand in it. Geoff Johns influenced characters on the new cartoon and Mike Norton tweeted earlier about looking at the character designs: http://twitter.com/themikenorton/status/28696249628 Now we know why.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I was reading a recent answer from Greg that caught my attention:

"1. Pretty much just focused on the first season of 26 episodes, though we have PLENTY of ideas for both the comics and a second season (should we get a pick-up)."

So he is going to be the main writer of the Young Justice tie in comic I take it, or a least the majority of it. I mean I knew from the previews that he is involved in issue 0, but I wasn't aware of him being a regular writer.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Another Young Justice preview, this time with a full scene and screenshots: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29507
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Early review of Young Justice: http://www.comicvine.com/news/early-review-young-justice-episode-1-independence-day/142575/ This review has more spoilers: http://www.the-trades.com/article.php?id=12256 Jesse McCartney interview: http://www.etonline.com/tv/103029_Jesse_McCartney_Brings_Sexy_Back_with_Shake/index.html
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I wish Gargoyles DVD's could be released. My Season 2 Vol. 1 looks so lonely sitting there, next to the first season... at least let us lovers complete the set! Haha...
Alanna - [a dot isabel at live dot ca]
Alanna Isabel

I was reading up on A Clockwork Orange on the IMDB when I clicked on Malcolm McDowell's name... and in his list of credits was "Green Arrow." Huh! I realised it was that thing Greg had written that y'all were talking about... I like Malcolm... I should check out the GA thing...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #244 movie #281. Wish me luck!

Cartoon Network has released the full cast list for the Young Justice premiere on November 26: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=901 Crispin Freeman, Phil LaMarr and Kevin Michael Richardson are back from Spectacular Spider-Man. I don't see any Gargoyles alums yet but there are some great actors in there.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Darkwing Duck #6 is out today, complete with Goliath cameo. Apparently it has a lot of other Disney references as well: http://popculturenetwork.com/article.php?story=20101117000510970
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Landon/Phoenician> Don't forget Mr. Keaton already voiced Ultimate Spidey for the Shattered Dimensions video game (and Spidey proper for Marvel vs. Capcom 3). I would also appreciate the continuity of his vocal talents returning.

GregX> Yep, I remember hearing that there. It's where I began wonder if there were other "echelons" in the Illuminati hierarchy since 6 = 1 + 2 +3 and the next two perfect numbers (28 and 496) are both less than the number of positions within the Society. Of course, three echelons could be created just as easily with six members (1 - 3), sixty members (4 - 11), and six hundred members (12 - 36)...

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

PAUL> I believe Greg said at Gathering 2008 that he considers the first three ranks to be the upper echelons.
Greg Bishansky

MTV releases the 6-minute Young Justice preview from NYCC in non-bootleg-vision: http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/11/17/young-justice-trailer/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Which ranks constitute the Illuminati's upper echelon, and which ones constitute their lower echelon?
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Ultimate Spider-Man: Wow. Just. Wow. (. . . don't think that line will ever get old ;) )

It's more than obvious that Ultimate Spider-Man is going to be a totally different show from The Spectacular Spider-Man (pretty much established that day news broke that TSS-M was canceled), but having the wonderful chance to **briefly** meet Josh Keaton at last year's Gathering and hearing from him in person how much he loved the character and the role, I can't help but root for him and hope he gets the role.

**Crosses fingers**

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Spider-Man Crawlspace is rallying for Josh Keaton to reprise Peter Parker in Ultimate Spider-Man: http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/2010/11/15/josh-keaton-auditioned-for-ultimate-spider-man/ He auditioned for it and he's probably still the best for the role, but I'll be amazed if he gets it.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Todd> Of course. However, his usage of triangular numbers for the individual ranks combined with his statement on which ranks consist of the Upper Echelons has significance for perfect numbers (all known perfect numbers fit in the set of triangular numbers).

Jurgan> Well, in the sense of origin, "perfect" numbers were a fascination for the ancient Greeks. Consider the mathematical and theological viewpoints of someone like Pythagoras and it makes sense. Euclid is responsible for the proof that [2^(p-1)]*(2p âˆ' 1) is an even perfect number where p and 2p-1 are both prime. As to modern significance, it's mostly due to the fact that perfect numbers are very rare. The aforementioned 2p-1 where p is prime creates what are known as Mersenne primes, a very limited set. As a result of Euclid's proof combined with later work by Euler, all even perfect numbers are intimately tied to the Mersenne primes - each one discovered leads to another perfect number and vice versa. So far, out of the obscenely massive quantity of numbers mathematician have dealt with, only 47 Mersenne primes/perfect numbers are known. Our knowledge of these sets are so limited that we don't even know for certain whether or not they're infinite yet (or even contain any odd numbers in the case of the perfects)!

If anyone wants to know about the interesting math surrounding perfect numbers, Wikipedia is as good a place to start as any.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

I've never really liked the whole "perfect numbers" concept. So they equal the sum of their factors- so what? Does that have any significance? And I like pure math, but that just seems like a meaningless distinction.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

BRAINIAC - I think that the number Greg Weisman most had in mind when working out the Illuminati's internal organization was the Number of the Beast.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

Some good news: Side Show Collectables has informed me that the Goliath Statue I pre-ordered will be arriving into their warehouse in 25 days. (At which time they will charge my card *Grumble, Grumbe*) This means it will be all mine very soon!!

Woot!

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #244 movie #281. Wish me luck!

A new Young Justice commercial is running on Cartoon Network with new footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdFBMJ8_1VU That sounds like either René Auberjonois at the beginning or a Jeff Bennett impersonation.

I made a mistake in my post yesterday: Superman/Shazam! only has four total shorts, including the headliner, not five. I couldn't find it at Target yesterday (they still had Superman/Batman: Apocalypse in the new releases section). I saw the non-slipcase (i.e. no digital copy) version at Best Buy.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Vinnie> As long as you're talking in a metaphorical or metaphysical sense, that's fine. However, in literal/mathematical terms, seven is prime, not perfect (perfect would be 6, 28, 496, 8128...).

You know, if it weren't too close to submitting an original idea (and the fact that he's said before math isn't really his thing), I'd ask Greg if he had perfect numbers in the back of his head when creating the Illuminati ranks, coupled with his mention of how many are in the "Upper Echelons."

Oh, and I'll wish a Happy 81st to the esteemed Mr. Asner alongside you, Demonskye.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

The internet informs me that Ed Asner is turning 81 today! A very happy birthday to an amazingly talented actor in both voice and onscreen roles and, from everything I've heard, a heck of a great person to boot.
Demonskrye - [<---Animation Hell at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Ten out of ten!
Phil - [p1anderson at yahoo dot com]

Ninth.

After all the excitement about Goliath's cameo in "Darkwing Duck" #6, I thought that GargWiki ought to have a page for hommages and allusions to "Gargoyles" in other works. I know that it's included a few mentions of these on the pages for other things that Greg's worked on (such as "W.I.T.C.H." and "The Spectacular Spider-Man"), but I was thinking of a page dedicated to such hommages in general. (The "Lawn Gnomes" skit in "Freakazoid" would be another candidate for such a page, as would the "Quantum Leap" parody in "Freakazoid" where a Goliath-like gargoyle's talking to Freakazoid near the start.)

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1 at mindspring dot com]

VIII
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Cheese, it's as good an answer as any.

Lucky (7)seven I guess. The number of completion The truely perfect number.
Vinnie - [tpeano20 at hotmail dot com]

Seems I have a 6th sense on when to post
Justin

I plead the fifth~!!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>-_-)> Tired...

God dammit, I hated the Fourth! Alien film. H-A-T-E-D it.
Greg Bishansky

Are they seriously making a THIRD Meet the Parents film? >_>

Hehehe . . . saw the trailer this weekend before Due Date

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

And I got two tickets to paradise...
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"I'm going home, and when I wanna go home, I'm going mobile..." - Roger Daltrey of The Who

1ST!!!!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"But what do you call each other?" "'Friend...'" - Tom and Brooklyn, "Awakening, Part One"