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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending August 29, 2021

Index : Show Images

More memorable Asner roles:

Sgt. Mike Cosgrove (waiting for quotes!)
Granny Goodness
Carl Fredriksen

Oh, and the Springfield Shopper may need to hire a new Lifeways editor.


That's a great tribute to Ed Asner at "Ask Greg".
Todd Jensen

Greg just posted his thoughts on Asner’s passing at Ask Greg. Don’t read without having a tissue handy.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

I'm devastated by the news of Ed Asner's death today. We not only lost Hudson, but an incredible actor and wonderful human being. His loss diminishes us all, but may his memory live on. What a legend.
D. Taína
"True immortality isn't about living forever, man. It's about what you do with the time you have." -Hudson

Just read about Ed Asner's passing. Man, what a shame.

Ashes to ashes or dust to dust. All is one with the wind.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

I'm sorry to hear about Ed Asner's passing as well.
Todd Jensen

I just started watching Dead to Me this past summer, and caught Ed Asner's character there, but just about as old as my memories are of Hudson, I remember catching reruns of The Mary Tyler Moore Show, and hearing him rant and rave as J. Jonah Jameson.

Wonderful memories amidst depressing news. :(

Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

This was incredibly heartbreaking news to wake up to.

There is no end to the ways in which Ed Asner was a legend. Both as an actor, and as a leader and advocate within the acting community. A man who'd forgotten more Hollywood history than most people will ever live.

Cherishing the memory of Hudson, Napoleon, Uncle Ben, and Kent Nelson among so, so, so many other roles that defined my childhood and early adulthood. He will be missed so greatly.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"There may be a place for me in this man's soul. Not because of what I may receive, but for something of worth I may have for him." - Casca


I wish I had the words. Man was an institution onto himself.


Oh, I did not know Asner was Jewish. In that case, may his memory be a blessing.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

"A friendly word of advice. True immortality isn't about living forever, man. It's about what you do with the time you have. When all your scheming's done, what will be your legacy?"

RIP to television legend Ed Asner.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

KARRIN> From their tower, they can see it aaaalll!
Hey, new friend, I’m glad you made it! Hey, new friend, as long as you are with us, you are home! It really sounds like where you’re from is overrated! But now you’re here, we’re never gonna leave you alone!

Well, I hope I'm not the only one to have gotten a little bit of nostalgic delight over having a bunch of cartoon super-teens living in a big tower again...

You know, I don't think we would have gotten this storyline at all if S3 had come right after S2? I know a lot of the broad strokes plot-plan hasn't changed, but I think Greg and Brandon have said outright that the #WeAreAllOutsiders subplot was inspired by #KeepBingingYoungJustice, and of course the rise of social media as a vector for activism. None of those were really on the table as they are now, so if we'd gotten an Outsiders plot in that alternate timeline, it probably would've shaken out very differently (at least in this regard.)

Have to say, I'm doubtful of how long this base will last too. On the one hand, the fanfare for it being introduced makes me think it'll stick around, on the other hand, the financial cost is pretty hefty. Plus, is it really a good secret base if the characters can't walk out their front door without risking blowing their location? Or, if it's widely known that that tower's the Outsiders' base (would this sort of property or rental paperwork be on the public record?) then if characters who aren't on the Outsiders but still live there go in and out regularly, then that might turn into a problem... Either way, I'm wondering if season 4 might bring in a secondary base, somewhere more isolated. Or maybe a rebuilding effort for the mountain? They do have Terra on-hand, her resurrecting Mount Justice as a base could be a nice way to bring things full circle.

Also, I love the at-home scenes with Artemis, Tara, and Violet. It's nice to remember that, of all the original Team kids, Artemis was the first to call them her family - it's really sweet to see that that hasn't gone away for her.

I also quite like how Jaime and Bart are the most obviously distressed by the apparent Reach return. The others take it as seriously as they'd take any villain, but the VAs definitely sell that personal connection in very little time.

Also, I remember that Scooby cameo! It's why I like to headcanon regular wrestling-watch nights as a Team activity. Well, that and liking to think about how wrestling would react to superheroes existing - just imagine an Earth-16 version of some of the absurd ripped-from-the-headlines storylines in wrestling.

Karrin Blue

Should have been "Bruce-Partington Plans".
Todd Jensen

MATTHEW - I'm glad to hear that your family's all right.

And you're right about the Scooby crossovers; they're even currently airing a "Scooby" animated series dedicated to those (most of which had the Scooby Gang team up with real-life celebrities, but there was also an episode that had them team up with Batman - with Kevin Conroy reprising his role - [SPOILER] and Mark Hamill reprising his role as the Joker [/SPOILER] - not to mention also an encounter with Sherlock Holmes - or perhaps a man who thinks that he's Holmes - which displayed an impressive knowledge of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's stories; Shaggy, of all people, shows himself to be an expert on the subject, correctly quoting Holmes from "The Bpscombe Valley Mystery" and summarizing "The Booth-Parkington Plans".)

Todd Jensen

Thanks for the family in your thoughts, my aunt hasn't needed to evacuate (yet) and my mother got back home safe.

It is weird that Young Justice hasn't crossed over with Scooby Doo yet. Scooby's crossed over with near everything. And for the folks who think YJ is too intense, I'd like to direct your attention to "Zombie Island".

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Sorry for the double post, but I just remembered that there is another "sort of" Scooby-Doo/Young Justice crossover, though one which Greg Weisman doesn't appear to have contributed to. A few years ago, they made an animated Scooby TV movie which had the Scooby Gang team up with some wrestling stars, and some of the female team members from "Young Justice" (Cassie, Artemis, Megan, and Zatanna) had a cameo in it (watching the wrestling match, in civvies).
Todd Jensen

MATTHEW - Your family will be in my thoughts as well.
Todd Jensen

Thanks Algae, if you can somehow bring some that wet, Irish weather over here that would be appreciated.
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

My sympathies, Matthew. I hope your mom and aunt come through okay. If there's anything I can do in the meantime, (admittedly, probably not much from all the way in Ireland), please don't hesitate to ask.
Hey, new friend, I’m glad you made it! Hey, new friend, as long as you are with us, you are home! It really sounds like where you’re from is overrated! But now you’re here, we’re never gonna leave you alone!

Thanks Todd, always appreciated.

Now I don't want to divert the conversation, but I could use maybe a few positive vibes for the family. I have an aunt currently living in Tahoe and there's been a pretty big fire up there and we've been unable to reach her today. Now she's already made evacuation plans and my mother's already on her way to help. But I don't know, maybe keep the folks there in your thoughts or something?

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

MATTHEW> "I think it's quite clever but the missing analogues for Shaggy and Scooby does kind of stick out like a sore thumb."

You know, I used to think so too but then it occurred to me the NGL's Shaggy and Scoob expies were probably hiding somewhere out of sight throughout the whole ep.

I mean... there has to be at least ONE talking dog somewhere in DC canon.

ANTIYONDER> I say if Earth-16 is big enough to include Darkseid and Mongul, it's big enough to include the Newsgirl Legion AND the Scooby Gang.

Hey, new friend, I’m glad you made it! Hey, new friend, as long as you are with us, you are home! It really sounds like where you’re from is overrated! But now you’re here, we’re never gonna leave you alone!

Well unanswered questions is down to 5.

You know one question I was looking to ask myself is if the YJ/Scooby crossover would be the first non-canonical story that Weisman would create as an official product or if it would canonized Mystery Inc. in the Young Justice continuity.

Been toying with that question still, but I wonder if the Newsgirl Legion would make Scooby and the gang a no go.

I don't know. Kind of like how he wanted to do Team Atlantis The Last in comic format, but if not given the okay to do so replacing Milo and crew with analogues.


I put my email up by mistake. Not sure it would be that useful.
James Dixon

MATTHEW - Thanks for the latest review. Your mention of the Newsgirls Legion being a counterpart to the cast of "Scooby-Doo" reminds me of some remarks Greg Weisman had made, somewhere during the first two seasons of "Young Justice", about wanting to do a crossover between "Young Justice" and "Scooby-Doo"; this could count as it. (I noticed in the quote section a clear echo of the famous "meddling kids" line.)

I've seen comments, incidentally, that the specific version of "Scooby Doo" used here was the "Mystery Incorporated" version, and that the roles of the Mayor and the Sheriff definitely reflect that.

Thanks for the bit about Brooklin, Maine, being E. B. White's hometown. Of course, we know that Xanatos is originally from Maine, though only as an off-stage mention in "Vows", so Maine didn't make it on-stage in "Gargoyles".

Todd Jensen

Do we know if Greg has seen any of the Gargoyles sketches on Robot Chicken? I'd be curious as to what he thinks.

(I'm not new, I'm just using my own name. I used to be known as Green Lantern's Night Light.)

James Dixon - [encryptionalaccesswanted at gmail dot com]

And we have a title (applause)

Watched "First Impressions" today which sees the formation of the Outsiders, the return of the Reach (not really), the return of Intergang (yes really) and it looks like we have a mystery on our hands gang.

To start with, let's focus on the titular team itself, the Outsiders. One of the highlights of the episode and of the arc as a whole is just how well thought out the plan behind it is. We saw last episode that in spite of Jaime's ribbing about Garfield dissatisfaction of not being the spotlight, it's not about that. It's about recapturing what the Justice League has lost in their PR war with the Light, G. Gordon and the public. Something inspirational but also trustworthy; I hadn't thought about it much but when you look at some of the heroes of DC like Superman and Wonder Woman, there's this sense of grandeur, invincibility but also strength and inspiration. But Clark and Diana are currently out in space and Batman stuck mostly to the shadows of Gotham even when he was in the League. So who's going to help inspire not only the everyday citizen but the meta-humans who are currently stuck in the middle between the average citizen who unreasonably fears them and the ones who would exploit them? That's where our heroes come in.

The assembled team does make some sense in a way, Bart was spilling secret identity secrets as part of his introduction, Jaime and Garfield are already public figures (the latter by choice and the former because of the Reach). Brion's coming out was kind of a big deal, Virgil's not really wearing a mask in this series and Cassie's always been a bit more...exuberant than what was needed for covert ops. I do admit I rather liked the part where M'gann worried she was losing the whole Team to this new idea, as well as the fact that Garfield is treating this group as a an extension of the Team rather than its own thing. Recognizing the need for the covert as well as the public image, which is something that I'll get into later.

I also rather like how the Outsiders announce themselves too, a combination of both fighting bad guys (Intergang and the rogue Reach ship) and protecting the citizens of Brooklyn, Maine, going back to what Garfield talked about when it came to regaining the public's trust. And in a way this episode encapsulates the big issue of the season as well. You have the obstructionist throwing every road block imaginable for reasons like wanting to throw their authority around and the misplaced mistrust against metas (Mayor Tompkins). The reasonable members of authority who generally want to help and allow the right help to be given, but have their hands tied by rules or lack of ability (Kaldur and Sheriff Maguire). And then there are the youths affected by this crisis, the ones who are in need of some kind of public display of hope. A symbol of defiance against those who would harm them and those who would obstruct their defense.

Honestly, this kind of episode works much better now than it would if season 3 had been picked up immediately after season 2 ended. The age of social media has exploded in the years since and things like smartphones, streaming and the like have now allowed perception to be shared on a national, or even global level. And because of that the sort of things that could have easily slipped away back in oh say, 2012, can now take the spotlight. Whether it be public event or demonstrations, police brutality, mass shootings, celebrations or even acts of heroism. And today's youth, which have been quite criticized for being steeped in technology or their overreliance on social media, can now use that very same thing to shape how the public sees their villains or heroes. And how by that same thinking, how those heroes or villains change because of that.

And finally we get another check-in with the Anti-Light and what they make of the Outsiders. And more just how they want to use the Outsiders. Kaldur hasn't shown up much this season but one thing that stood out to me in the beginning is the ever-so-slight change he's gone through. Back in season 1 while he was still very much the responsible and dutiful soldier of Atlantis, he still had that form of youthful defiance that helped set the Team apart from just being a group of assembled sidekicks. Now he's a grown adult and more than that, he's part of the authority; and yet when he tells Garfield that the League will consider his request and Garfield throws those very same "get on board or get out of the way" words back on him, he looks both relieved and proud at that. I'd say he's glad that the same level of initiative and independence is continuing on, separate from what he and his friends helped forged, yet still committed to the same ideals. I don't think it's for nothing that he's the one who floats the idea of bringing Beast Boy into the fold, as he recognizes the strong leadership qualities that could be a boon to their group. The consequences of choosing to leave him (and everyone else) out are going to be explored later on. And while Kaldur may have thrown the fight to help prop up the Outsiders but their victory is entirely of their own doing, but we'll soon see how hands on the Anti-Light is when it comes to the Outsiders. And heck, the very last line of the episode just sounds like something the Light would say to close out the episode...

Some Final Thoughts: So the Newsgirl Legion is basically the gender-swapped version of the Newsboy Legion from the comics, with a lot of Scooby-Doo thrown in the mix. I think it's quite clever but the missing analogues for Shaggy and Scooby does kind of stick out like a sore thumb. And I know there's more members of the Legion to draw from so reducing the quintet to a trio doesn't kind of diminish the homage. By the way, there's a Brooklyn in Maine, though spelled "Brooklin." It was the home to author E. B. White, so fun little factoid. I actually rather like that the episode was centered in Maine because the state doesn't feature much in DC Comics, or fiction in general (unless you're Stephen King). So it's only a brief appearance, but I do like how Intergang has become something of a recurring nuisance for the heroes.

We get a new headquarters, I once speculated how long this one will last and whether it was formerly the home base of the Doom Patrol. I only ask because even if he's pulling lead character money for a television series, it's hard to imagine Garfield being able to finance a building like that in LA. I actually rather like how Artemis was already missing several of the characters before they even left, her getting used to the crowd is something that's pretty relatable. And finally, we have the situation with Tara who's been pretty closed off this whole time but still acting as an insider. I genuinely liked the scene where she's completely unsure on how to comfort a scared Lian until she thinks back to her own parents. We'll be looking into her more next episode.

Acting MVP: The cast gives their A-game for sure. But I have give special mention to the folks playing the residents of Brooklyn. Grey Griffin, Zehra Fazal, Mae Whitman, James Marsden and Troy Baker are all having plenty of fun with these characters and I'm all for it. And still, that's a heck of a Patrick Warburton impression coming from Troy.

DC Profiles: The Newsboy Legion was originally created back in the 40's by Simon and Kirby before they made their way into DC's universe. A group of orphans from Metropolis' Suicide Slum, they assisted the hero Guardian, acting like a version of the Baker Street Irregulars.

Favorite Lines:

Miss Martian: Okay, Garfield, you called this meeting.
Beast Boy: And I appreciate you hearing me out. Kaldur, though the Justice League's ranks are divided, you stand centerstage, defending a world seemingly committed to stopping your good works. And, M'gann, you lead the Team against our adversaries while avoiding the spotlight. Despite all obstacles, you're both making a difference. But something is missing.
Tigress: Okay, I'll bite. What?
Beast Boy: A public version of the Team. Young heroes rebelling against the system to fight the good fight in clear view.
Aquaman: No. We do not put those kinds of targets on our underage heroes. That is what the Justice League is for.
Beast Boy: The League can't do what we need, because you're playing on the Light's game board. Have you seen the headlines lately? [He cues up a trio of headlines to emphasize his points] Lex Luthor's grip on the United Nations. The public fear of meta-humans. Meta-Teen Trafficking. Bad guys like Granny Goodness and Baron Bedlam are capitalizing on all of it. We've lost the hearts and minds of the people we're trying to protect. Demagogues and fear-mongers have caused folks to give up on the heroic ideal, the reason the Justice League was formed in the first place.
Artemis: Great, now I'm thoroughly depressed.
Beast Boy: Don't worry. I've gotcha covered. See, we're gonna break the rules the League can't. We're gonna connect with people in ways that can't be blocked by governments. We're gonna quiet the fears of the public terrified by the meta-gene generation. And we'll do it all by inspiring that generation. Because we are them. Raised alongside them in the fallout of a scary, meta-human world, we can be the heroes that empower them to conquer their fears.
Miss Martian: That's a great speech, Gar, sincerely, but how's that any different from what the League's trying to do now?
Beast Boy: The League and the Light are fighting spin campaigns, and the Light's winning. That's not what I'm talking about. Look at this. [He cues up a photo their rescue at the Taos Center] Without even trying, these actions have generated something organic, something beyond spin, something that could never emerge from under the thumb of Luthor or Granny. It's something relatable. It's something we can build on by giving people something they can brand. Something they can own on social media. Something that makes them part of the story. We're going to be highly mobile and accessible. And together, we're gonna start a revolution! A-a small one anyway.
Aquaman: You have given us much to consider-
Beast Boy: No. We haven't. [Kid Flash, Blue Beetle, Static, Geo-Force and Wonder Girl all stand beside him] Get on board or get out of the way.
[Superboy rolls his eyes and grunts at that]
Kid Flash: We've all heard the story...
Blue Beetle: You guys built this Team...
Wonder Girl: It's time to take it to the next level.
Tigress: Are you sure you're ready for this kind of spotlight?
Beast Boy: Green skin. Can't hide.
Blue Beetle: The Reach outed me two years ago.
Kid Flash: Kid Flash is out, too, from back in Wally's day. Public doesn't always get that I'm a different guy. Plus, I never really grokked the whole secret I.D. thing anyway, you?
Geo-Force: Markovia and the world already know what I have become. Now, I want to show them who I have become.
Wonder Girl: And there was no way I was going to let this be a no-girl squad.
Static: The group needed a little color.
Blue Beetle: Hey, brown skin here.
Static: Might as well be blue skin with that face plate. [he conks it a couple times]

Tigress: Wow, it really is starting to feel like the Cave back in the day. But, um...Who's paying for all this?
Beast Boy: Gretchen Goode. She might still have me locked into a contract, but that means ol' Granny has to pay me, enough to finance the mission to take her down.
Wonder Girl: Now, that's what I call payback! [holds up her fist] Huh? Huh?
Static: Yeah, this is a sympathy bump.

Geo-Force: [Over the blaring siren of the Troub-Alert] Mother of God, that ridiculous alarm is even louder up here!
Static: Dude, this better not be another Troub-Alert drill.

Blue Beetle: Her name's Whisper A'Daire. And she works for Intergang.
Beast Boy: They all do.
Maguire: Intergang?
Beast Boy: Criminal organization that deals in alien weaponry.
Whisper: And we would've scored big time, if you heroes hadn't gotten in our way.

Mayor Tompkins: Sheriff, arrest these costumed delinquents! The Justice League did not go through the proper channels to be in Brooklyn.
Aquaman: Excuse me. But these young heroes are not members of the League.
Mayor Tompkins: Oh, so they're vigilantes!
Gaby: They just saved the whole town!
Mayor Tompkins: Saved it? Look what they've done to our library!
Tommi: Dad, uncool!
Mayor Tompkins: on't you "Dad" me, Tommi Tompkins! It's time your little "Newsgirl Legion" woke up and smelled the maple syrup!

Whisper: Look, if I were you, I'd call the Justice League.
Mayor Tompkins: We don't need meta-vigilantes! We have the United States Air Force! Which I called in, by the way!
[Two drones fire a salvo of missiles at the Warship, which does nothing and the Warship obliterate the drones causing the Mayor to facepalm]

Artemis: You see how brave Tara and Violet are? You can be brave like them.
[There's another rumble of thunder and Violet dives under the covers]

Kid Flash: Good news! Just checked every deck. No baddies, just their bones. We're in no danger at all.
[an alarm blares and the Reach ship pinpoints two jets making there way]
Geo-Force: Uh, bad news. The good guys are here to blow us out of the sky.
Wonder Girl: But this ship will blow them out of the sky! And those jets are manned!
Beast Boy: They're almost in range, and it looks like the Ship has a lock on 'em. Blue?
Blue Beetle: Good news. I can totally cut power to the Ship's weapons.
Kid Flash: Please, no bad news, please, no bad news.
Blue Beetle: Bad news.
Kid Flash: Gah!
Blue Beetle: I can only do it by deactivating the Ship's engines at the same time.
Static: So it crashes down and flattens the whole town. Called it.

Gaby: So if you're not the "Young Justice League," then who are you?
Beast Boy: We're something new, here to help people. We don't answer to bureaucrats and bad guys trying to twist what we do into crimes against the system. Those types can get on board or get out of the way.
Gaby: Wow, sounds like a revolution.
Beast Boy: Maybe. We're definitely not playing by the insiders' rules. We can't. We are all Outsiders.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.


The Spectacular Spider-Man episode Reaction has been added to Throwback Thursday channel.

Greg B> Very likely. Besides character differences, I think a big argument can be made that the no killing rule is to keep profitable characters.

Anyway, that would be another difference between Batman and Goliath:-D.


So here's a thought... and maybe this is something new; because I don't recall us having this discussion in the CR.

Goliath does not have a policy against killing... although I think a portion of the fandom, and fanfiction plays one up. I think this may be the result of a misreading of some of the material. In Awakening Part Four, Goliath said something to Demona that stuck out at me "To kill in the heat of battle is one thing, but not like this!" ... he won't engage in cold blooded murder. And since coming to 1994 Manhattan, and the new world he found himself in, he's definitely showing more restraint than he would have in the Dark Ages.

Goliath was perfectly willing to kill Tony Dracon when he thought he was avenging Elisa. When he learned the truth, he spared Dracon and left him for the police. It wasn't him "coming to his senses" and realizing that killing Dracon would be wrong... he does threaten Dracon with death later, but that was just a threat, ultimately he's a human criminal, he prayed on humans, and he'll be judged by humans.

Goliath famously helps talk Macbeth out of killing Demona in "City of Stone" but, as we know, for complicated reasons, he doesn't want Demona to die... and he was trying to get the access code for Xanatos's computer at the time. Plus the Sisters were using him as well, they didn't want their soldiers dead. While Goliath does believe that every life is precious, that doesn't translate over into a game of "I will never, ever kill an enemy no matter the circumstances." Goliath, like most people, is complicated.

Let's look at "The Price". Goliath was willing to "kill" Macbeth when the lives of his clan were at stake. He took no pleasure in it, but he wasn't too broken up about it, either. Disappointed that it came to that. Later in the episode, when he thought Hudson was dead, he did go after "Macbeth" for revenge and, well, let's be honest, the rest of his clan was still in danger. At this moment, "Macbeth" may as well have been Hakon.

And let's also be honest, for all intents and purposes, Goliath did kill the Archmage. He went in there to end the Archmage's threat by any means necessary... whether that involved just depowering him or outright slaying him. There was no "I had no choice moment" there, either. Just a satisfied "it is over" after the Archmage burned up.

I know some fans will hold up "Hunter's Moon" as another moment, but this was similar to "The Price" and Goliath did vow vengeance... the problem came when Angela was out of danger, but Goliath chose not to let it go... his anger was obviously heightened by watching Elisa kiss Jason Canmore and Demona encouraging his worst impulses during a moment of weakness. But this was a case of escalation and escalation until both sides came down and Elisa brought everyone to their senses.

Of course, now that the existence of gargoyles has been revealed to humans, Goliath may stretch his attitude about killing only in dire circumstances farther so as not to cause any more among humans. But I still don't think a strict "no kill" policy ala Batman or Spider-Man exists for him.

Long story short, I think Goliath would have put the Joker down. ;)

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Voices From the Eyrie]

JURGAN - Your Santa idea reminded me of a book I read some years ago, called "The Autobiography of Santa Claus", a rather fun story that started with the life of St. Nicholas, who then (at the point when Nicholas died in actual history), is prompted to slip away and go wandering to help people in need, gradually gathering a band of assistants who are immortal like himself - one of whom is King Arthur, incidentally (though based more on the theories about the "historical Arthur" as a Romano-British war leader fighting the invading Saxons than the familiar legendary king. (A few other famous historical figures join him - among them, Attila the Hun - who seems an unlikely candidate, of course, but the book portrayed him as having grown tired of being a barbarian conqueror and wanting to do something better with his life, St. Francis of Assisi, Leonardo da Vinci, and Benjamin Franklin. Leonardo and Franklin become particularly handy after "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" is published, introducing the notion of the flying reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh, and Santa realizes that all the children in the U.S. will be expecting him to deliver toys that way and they've got to find some way of making it possible; Leonardo regards it as a delightful challenge, and finds a way to make it work.)

It had Santa and his associates get involved in practically every major event connected to Christmas since the fourth century A.D., including (unintentionally) giving George Washington the idea of crossing the Delaware and surprising the Hessians at Trenton, inspiring the composition of "Silent Night", and urging Charles Dickens to write "A Christmas Carol". It was a lot of fun.

Todd Jensen

Todd: "We do know that Greg had planned a "Gargoyles" episode featuring Santa Claus - and I'm still curious about that one, largely because I'd like to know how you can fit Santa into a fairly dark series like "Gargoyles" (one that opens with most of the main character's family getting slaughtered or turned to stone, and the main character being so devastated that he makes what is essentially a suicide request); Santa easily fits into more light-hearted series, but for "Gargoyles", I think it'd be a challenge - and I'd enjoy seeing how they handled it."

I started writing a story about this once, the gist being that the real Nicolas was a selfish brat in 4th century Turkey, then he had interactions with a gargoyle, and those interactions would somehow inspire him to be more benevolent. I didn't get very far because I couldn't really think of an interesting story to go with that hook. But it would be fun to see Gargoyles tackle some of the weirder aspects of the Saint Nicolas mythology, like when he resurrected some murdered children who had been preserved in pickle brine. Puppet History did a pretty good episode on these legends: https://youtu.be/FQBZrPVQUyM

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Sorry for the double post, but, wow, down to five!

I know I'm biased, but what I wouldn't do for a comic from Terra's POV during her kidnapping, or during some of these critical events with the Team. Asking something like 'Did Delamb want to use Terra as a guinea pig to find out what the family powers might be before he committed to it' might be too much of a leading question, or breaking the No Spoilers rule, but I really am curious about that whole situation. And in general since Terra is mostly so quiet, it makes me wonder what's going through her head.

I'm also a touch surprised the Orphanage machine actually had a purpose - things that just cause pain are pretty much in Apokolips' wheelhouse.

Anyways, time to actually figure out my next 5 questions...

Karrin Blue

I dunno, I think there are a few different ways you can spin a hero-and-villain pair of sisters - besides, it's not retreading, it's narrative parallels. (I kid, but I love seeing complicated family and sibling dynamics in superheroes, and there's quite a few sets of sibs in DC's toolkit I'd love to see on Earth-16. Hawk and Dove, Starfire and Blackfire, Ravager(s) and Jericho...) So why not New Wave and Windfall?

I saw some interesting analysis the other day about how TKJ treating Babs and her injury as an afterthought is, although totally unintended by Moore, in some ways critical to her growth as Oracle; she's yanking back control of her own life and her agency after being treated like an object. It's sexist to have Joker only think about her as a thing he can use to hurt Gordon - but women get treated like that all the time, have their lives permanently changed or lost entirely because of feuds between men, and her becoming Oracle after that has a different resonance than her being hurt in the line of duty (there was also a follow up comment about how, if Babs is the only one to get a disabling injury in the line of duty, it can make it seem like she got hurt because she couldn't keep up with the male Bats who do the exact same stuff but almost never get really hurt, and never permanently.) So that's been on my mind thinking about how Babs might have ended up being Oracle.

Though, really, it's way more likely that it didn't happen like it did in TKJ because 'Joker wants to prove a philosophical point to Batman via Gordon' would be a weird plot point for Young Justice. One character who hasn't appeared since season 1, one who hasn't spoken ever, and the third being, sure, a major supporting character, but not one of the teens the show is actually about - it'd be a complete tangent to what and who the show is actually about. And I still put good odds on the Light offing Joker after the equivalent of Death in the Family, too.

(And in the end, I don't think every adaptation that wants to include Barbara as Oracle because she's a great character and rare disabled representation needs to be making the same point as Kim Yale and John Ostrander ended up doing. In some ways they can't - stories that only happened because one author took umbrage at a plot development and decided to use it as a launching off point for their continuation are kinda hard to recapture the magic of in adaptation.)

Karrin Blue

Karrin> That version of Masters of Disaster sounds pretty interesting and now I'm curious to see if they'll show up here, especially if they keep the part with Wendy's older sister leading the team. It would feel a bit like a retread of Artemis and Cheshire but we don't have much in the way of sisterly relationships and you could something different like having New Wave (Wendy's sister) fully embrace villainy.

I had forgotten about Paula mentioning Barbara; I remembered back when I first saw this whether Paula might've came in to help council her on the loss of her legs. How that happened is still a bit of a mystery (though I imagine YJ could do a better retelling of the The Killing Joke than the animated movie did).

And before I forget; I was perusing through Youtube and I saw that someone did a "One Villainous Scene" video focusing on Tombstone's introduction in Spectacular Spider-Man, and anything that gives focus to that show is worth checking out.

You can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyLGkzn7B0Y

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

KARRIN> I've always kinda assumed Babs-16 suffered her spinal injury in the line of duty rather than any Killing Joke style scenario. Mainly 'cuz Babs is kinda an afterthought in TKJ itself despite it having a HUGE impact on her character development in the comics.
Hey, new friend, I’m glad you made it! Hey, new friend, as long as you are with us, you are home! It really sounds like where you’re from is overrated! But now you’re here, we’re never gonna leave you alone!

I really, genuinely love Taos as a place of healing, for all the reasons you talk about. The meta-human community has to be a community - people have to live their lives, they have to have reasons to celebrate, they have to go on day by day. Trauma should be something that metas help each other deal with and heal from, but people and love are what make it a community that can stick together through thick and thin. (Also, I wonder if the Harvest Festival name was to make it feel more inclusive? Since there'd be a ton of meta-kids who weren't American, there'd probably be some who'd feel alienated by a celebration for the settling of a country they're not citizens of.)

I really like Vic's little talk with Forager there, too. And how, even though he doesn't want to be cheered up, he still knows that Forager didn't do anything wrong, and while "Go inside, warm up, no one likes a frozen bug" isn't exactly an apology for snapping at him, I think Forager got the gist.

Ah, the fight with Paula hurts, though. I'm really interested to see where their relationship is at in Phantoms - maybe they'll have talked it out, maybe they're still in this uneasy unhappiness, maybe it's gotten worse... In addition to Paula's disapproval of Artemis' work as a hero being a new development, there's also that she's very vocally given up on Jade, which can't be easy for Artemis either.

Also, speaking of how Paula's combining her past and Artemis' - her comment about Barbara. I wonder if it's meant to foreshadow that the Killing Joke didn't happen here? Because everything else aside, Barbara Gordon in TKJ wasn't shot because she was Batgirl, or because she'd gone in to a fight and got unlucky, or anything like that; it was purely because she was Jim Gordon's daughter. In TKJ, Joker didn't even know her identity. So if it happened like that in YJ, Paula using her as an example of how the hero life destroys people is flat wrong. Whether or not Barbara was a hero didn't factor into it. So, I wonder if we're supposed to read that as Paula's perspective coloring everything, or as a hint that things happened differently?

...and that aside, I really would like to get a scene where Barbara talks about that in her own words. Other people far more equipped to talk about it than me have talked at much greater length about how meaningful it was to have a disabled protagonist who didn't hate herself or think her life was less worth living because of her disability, so it'd be good to have that in YJ.

Speaking of Ed and Bart - it's blink and you'll miss it, but I'm pretty sure you can see Bart kiss Ed on the cheek when he's doing all those super-speed hugs. And, well, Virgil being very clear that he's the only one without a partner... There's some strong implications there.

I really feel bad for Gabrielle. I've been assuming she got her job at the palace so she could send money back home to her family, and, well, while I'm sure the king and queen paid their staff well, they probably didn't pay 'get my mother and cousin here to this safer country ASAP' well. In that case, a girl far from home, desperate and alone, would be hard to blame, if someone told her all she had to do was open a door and she'd get enough money to at least move their departure date up.

...also, Jace, really, 'it's not ALL Gabrielle's fault'? You could be more explicit that it's primarily the fault of, you know, the guy who hired the assassin to kill them. If Gabrielle hadn't been bribe-able, someone else would've been - or he would've decided he could cover it up after the fact if one of his people took care of it, even if that was riskier than manipulating a teenager. Then again, it's not exactly like she's being altruistic by this point...

And on a final note... You know, a while ago, I was in a discussion where people were bouncing around ideas for Young Justice team compositions, and I came up with a whole spin on the Masters of Disaster for Earth-16 - as disaster relief, helping to weaken and control disasters as they happened and evacuate people in harm's way. A way for metas who want to use their powers to help when they don't want to get into fights.

Karrin Blue

We do know that Greg had planned a "Gargoyles" episode featuring Santa Claus - and I'm still curious about that one, largely because I'd like to know how you can fit Santa into a fairly dark series like "Gargoyles" (one that opens with most of the main character's family getting slaughtered or turned to stone, and the main character being so devastated that he makes what is essentially a suicide request); Santa easily fits into more light-hearted series, but for "Gargoyles", I think it'd be a challenge - and I'd enjoy seeing how they handled it.

(I remember, when we discussed that question in times past, that occasionally the Krampus was brought up, and I've certainly seen him in animation a few times. My favorite animated take on the Krampus was the episode featuring him in "Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated" - though that's all I'm saying about it. Anyone reading this who's seen that episode will understand why.)

Todd Jensen

Thanks Todd, always appreciated. I have no problem admitting that a good reason on why I'm so interested in world history and mythology is largely due to Gargoyles.
And pardon the long diatribe with the DC Profile, but I have an issue with things like abuse and trauma (especially of the sexual nature) being used for cheap drama and never doing anything with it beyond, "Yeah this character's life sucks and now they're dead." It's been a problem with DC for awhile now.

When it comes to holiday-themed episodes, it does allow for shows to play with the idea of the passage of time, especially in animated shows where characters don't really age. Honestly, holiday episodes have become so common that shows that do have characters that age but don't have things like a Christmas episode are a bit uncommon.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

MASTERDRAMON - Yes, I suspected the same thing, that "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and "Young Justice" were far more human-centered than "Gargoyles" was.
Todd Jensen

It's less a balcony and more a roof... she has a loft, not a traditional apartment. Granted a loft like that would have cost a lot.

Also, detectives in the NYPD make good money. One with a good record (like Elisa) as of 2021 clears $181K a year.

Plus this little tidbit from Frank: https://gargwiki.net/images/4/4f/Elisa_Apartment_Elisa_Loft.PNG

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Voices From the Eyrie]

GB> Daaang... a balcony that size in Manhattan? No wonder Dracon thought Elisa was on the take.
Hey, new friend, I’m glad you made it! Hey, new friend, as long as you are with us, you are home! It really sounds like where you’re from is overrated! But now you’re here, we’re never gonna leave you alone!

MD> "Plus, their primary connection and explainer of the esoterics of modern human culture, Elisa, would likely be spending Christmas or Thanksgiving Day either having dinner with her family or covering a shift at work, rather than with the Clan."

It'd be interesting to see how that's changed since Elisa is now in a relationship with Goliath, and they now know him. At some point, the Mazas and the Manhattan Clan are spending a holiday together. I'd guess maybe in the Labyrinth, the Mazas certainly aren't going over to the castle considering that Xanatos is there... it wouldn't make sense for the Mazas to sit down for a holiday dinner with the Family Xanatos anymore than the clan inviting Demona over and.... and....

.... I HATE THAT TGS FIC SO MUCH! I know it'se been over twenty years, but... IT BURNS! IT BURNSES US, PRECIOUS!!!!!!

Ahem, I apologize for that outburst, where was I?

I could see them setting up tables on the balcony of Elisa's loft, there's enough room: https://gargwiki.net/images/9/9c/Elisa_Apartment.png

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Voices From the Eyrie]

MASTERDRAMON> Plus Halloween is just objectively the best holiday. :p
Hey, new friend, I’m glad you made it! Hey, new friend, as long as you are with us, you are home! It really sounds like where you’re from is overrated! But now you’re here, we’re never gonna leave you alone!

Masterdramon> "Plus, their primary connection and explainer of the esoterics of modern human culture, Elisa, would likely be spending Christmas or Thanksgiving Day either having dinner with her family or covering a shift at work, rather than with the Clan."

Wouldn't help now that they are loving under the same roof as the Xanatos famil:-D.

Wonder if such a story could work if done as an uncomfortable get together, you know as opposed to the ones acting like turning a family member into a mutate is water under the bridge:-D.


Todd: Part of the difference, I think, is that the majority of the main cast for "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and "Young Justice" are either human or pretending to be such. For the Manhattan Clan, they simply wouldn't have much of a connection to human holidays of a more religious (i.e. Christmas, Easter) or nationalistic (i.e. Independence Day, Thanksgiving) nature, at least early on.

Halloween is the exception because its appeal is innate and immediate to them: the ability to go out into the world and not have to hide themselves, at least for one night. Briefly, their adoptive home becomes much more like the world "where superstition and the sword ruled" they left behind.

Plus, their primary connection and explainer of the esoterics of modern human culture, Elisa, would likely be spending Christmas or Thanksgiving Day either having dinner with her family or covering a shift at work, rather than with the Clan.

It'll be interesting to see how that changes over successive generations as gargoyles become more integrated with human society at large. By 2198 it's hard to imagine there won't be gargoyles enjoying the pageantry of Christmas, even if it's the more secular version celebrated by godless heathens like myself.

I'd also very much like to see the degree to which clans with a longer history coexisting with their human neighbors (Ishimura in particular) celebrate or regard certain cultural holidays. Let's see Yama in a nice yukata!

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"There may be a place for me in this man's soul. Not because of what I may receive, but for something of worth I may have for him." - Casca

MATTHEW - Thanks for the latest review.

Your comments on the episode's Thanksgiving setting remind me of some thoughts I've had about one major difference between "Gargoyles" on the one hand, and "The Spectacular Spider-Man" and "Young Justice" on the other, that recently came to mind thanks to one of Greg's latest answers at "Ask Greg" (about why "Gargoyles" never got a Christmas episode). The latter two series had far more a sense of the year's cycle (including the landmarks such as familiar holidays) than "Gargoyles" did (though it got one Halloween story - two with "Clan-Building"). It's something I'd like to discuss with Greg when "Ask Greg" becomes open to new questions.

I've had a stronger connection to "Gargoyles" than to "The Spectacular Spider-Man" or "Young Justice", since I read a lot about the Middle Ages and myths and legends and Shakespeare when I was growing up, but had very little familiarity with Marvel or DC Comics super-heroes, so "Gargoyles" resonated with me in a way that the other two shows didn't - but the "year's round" aspect of those two shows really appeals to me.

Todd Jensen

And today's the day we give thanks.

Watched "Illusion of Control" today which gives us our Thanksgiving episode, the last time that holiday showed up was in "Agendas" which aside from the obligatory mention at the beginning, really didn't show up much. But here it's a major focus of the episode's story, in fact I'd argue that it's even bigger than the action piece in Taos. But let's focus on that for right now; what really stood out to me wasn't just the fact that the Meta Human Center wasn't just throwing a Thanksgiving celebration, it was a full on Harvest Festival with all the trimmings. Rides, unhealthy snacks most likely of the deep-fried variety, everything more extravagant than I would've expected for a Thanksgiving party. But the more I thought about it the more something started popping into my mind, the beginning of the season. Where we've seen children stolen away from their families, transformed into living weapons, transformed into monsters, shipped to other parts of the globe, shipped to other parts of the galaxy and too many of them never seen again or never living another year. The Center isn't just a place for kids who were victims of trafficking to hide out in, it's not just a place for them to get a handle on their powers, this is a place of healing. The concept of "safe spaces" has had its meaning washed around and denigrated for some time now but it's still the same thing as it was when it was conceptualized. A place where people can talk about their experiences, learn from them, grow from them, and heal from them. And sometimes a good way to heal is to distract from their problems, to let loose and have fun, because many of these kids haven't had much of a chance for things like that, or any chance of a childhood at all. It so reminds me of that one bit of dialogue from Avatar the Last Airbender:

Katara: I haven't done this since I was a kid!
Aang: You still are a kid!

Because when it comes to healing, especially with kids, it's important for them to feel safe and give them the chance of normalcy. Whether it be from some sugary sweets, playing on bumper cars, or just getting a nice pep talk (though getting one from a queen is a bit unlikely). Just letting these characters, these victims just have fun is a great relief. Because as Black Canary pointed out back in "Disordered", they're still entitled to their youth.

On the other side of the episode, we have the drama with Vic and Artemis. Victor Stone is an interesting sort, like Brion what he hoped for and what he ended up getting are two very different things and traumatic events caused them to have to leave their old life behind and not by choice. And as a result of that, both retreated into a sullen moodiness occasionally lashing out at others. Brion was able to reconcile some of this with his goal to rescue Tara (with plenty of hiccups along the way) but for Vic it's a different thing. He had a bright future ahead of him (whether his father wanted to be a part of that or not) and one accident later was thrust into the craziness of the superhero world, and unlike Brion, he doesn't have a personal stake in this. He's had the hopes of somehow getting his life back but by the last few episodes it's sounded pretty unlikely even to him. So what's left for him? Right now just that sullen moodiness. But that's why it was so important for Vic and Forager to talk because even if Vic isn't quite in the place he wants or needs to be, the fact that there are people who are here and are more than willing to engage with him at least helps him come out of the cold.

With Artemis there's a whole other problem. It's funny to think that back in season 1 Paula was so supportive of her hero work, most likely due to the fact that it helped keep her from "the life" that broke her relationship with her husband and with Jade. Possibly because she saw Green Arrow as not only as a good mentor but a good paternal figure as well. But all of that changed with the mission to infiltrate the Light; on a personal note, Artemis had to put her entire life on hold and picking up the pieces after convincing the world you died had to be difficult. We never saw it, but I can't imagine the reunion between mother and daughter was a good one. Believing your daughter had died for half a year (and having to learn the truth second-hand), only reuniting after "Endgame" when Artemis has suffered a deep loss of her own. Now Paula's past as a supervillain and Artemis' past as a superhero are now treated as one and the same, "the life" that only ends in heartbreak. I'll go over Artemis and Will's own relationship soon enough and the complexities of what they want and what other people think they want, but for now, Paula's words end up striking a cord at least with Artemis and her relationships.

And finally, we have the reveal at the end of the episode, namely the trio of heroes revealing themselves to the public. It's an interesting take because Garfield is already well involved in the spotlight, Bart as Kid Flash is most likely involved in the public affairs of his mentor/grandfather and Blue Beetle had a major plot point of going public last season. So the fact that the three would become the first major faces to a new movement is an...odd take if you're expecting one of the lesser known characters to turn this into a big reveal. I do like how Garfield does clarify that this isn't about fame or the spotlight but providing a positive example for the public and meta teens as a whole. I'll go into this more in the next episode but for now I'll just end things by pointing out they're about to enter a brand new battlefield, one with dangers of its own.

Some Final Thoughts: The subtle foreshadowing about "Count Vertigo" was pretty well done but isn't much of a surprise if you've paid attention to the little touches that go along with characters' powers and the visual and audio cues that go with them. Vertigo of course has his vertigo waves when he uses his powers and a scratchy rhythm that accompanies it. Meanwhile telepathy and psychic powers have a short and low "whooshing" noise that goes along with it, which shows up "Vertigo" uses his abilities. I rather like that Psimon remembered to include the little idiosyncrasies when impersonating the Count, and Devastation has picked up a few things from Tommy Terror. Honestly, the scheme itself is pretty ingenious. Stage a kidnapping to draw the heroes away and keep them busy using some clever deception while the rest of the team steals away the unguarded metas. If this was being overseen by one of the Light members I could see this Xanatos Gambit working out at least to one degree, problem is that the heroes have been improving for some time now (Bart running out of a Boom Tube was amazing) and Onslaught doesn't exactly have the best record. Time to get some new henchmen. Also, I this is the first time Psimon's committed a crime on US soil, wonder if he'll still have his diplomatic immunity after this.

Some people said that Virgil was coming off a bit too whiny this episode, but when you're the seventh wheel in a group of friends I think you're allowed to vent a bit. By the way, you have to pause it just right but during Bart's hugs to the others, I noticed he was pretty close to Ed. Like cheek-to-cheek hug close. Take that as you will. And for a character who was pretty prominent last season I have missed Jaime and Scarab's comedy duo, nice to know Scarab hasn't lost their usual overkill. We also get confirmation that Vertigo was responsible for the deaths of Perdita's parents (or at least her father) and Perdita socking Psimon right in the nose? Long Live the Queen. And though it's only near the end of the episode, we have some more drama building with Halo and their desire to hide the truth of Gabrielle's part in the assassination of Brion's parents. Another thing to get into later, but I will just say it doesn't take very long from it going from "What has she done?" to "What have I done?"

Acting MVP: The whole cast once again does quite well, but I rather like the quieter bits of dialogue this episode whether between Freddy Rodriguez and Hyden Walch, Zeno Robinson and Jason Spisak or Kelly Hu and Stephanie Lemelin. Plus Lauren Tom fangirling over Perdita was just fun to watch.

DC Profiles: To say that life was unkind to Wendy Jones aka: Windfall is far too kind a word. Before she was born, her mother let her company conduct prenatal experiments on her and her older sister in order to give birth to superhumans. Her sister, Becky later murdered her mother and coerced Wendy into joining her team of elemental-themed supervillains The Masters of Disaster. After a battle against the Outsiders, Wendy eventually had enough and turned against her sister and joined the heroes for a time before attempting a normal life. Unfortunately, at a college frat party her drink was spiked and she was gang raped by members of the fraternity. A local DA denied her any form of justice in part because of her past as a villain and because his son was a member of that fraternity. Enraged at this, Wendy ended up killing the frat boys by sucking the air out of their house. After her arrest she was assigned to the Suicide Squad where she died rather ignominiously trying to protect her team from the villain Chemo. It's darkly appropriate that one of the last things she said was asking why God hated her, because the writers sure had it in for her. And honestly, if this show treats her with a least a fraction of the respect she didn't get in the comics I'd call it a win.

Favorite Lines:

[Traci elbows Jaime]
Jaime: Ow!
Traci: Why didn't you tell me Tork was coming?!
Bart: Hey there, hi there, ho there Gardita!
Ed: Hola!
Perdita: Hello boys. It's so nice to see you again.
Jaime: Garfield Logan. Queen Perdita. Meet my girlfriend, Traci. She's a big fan.
Traci: [hiding her face in her shirt from excitement] I'm a big fan!
Perdita: Hello Traci, lovely to meet you.
Garfield: Hey Traci.
[Traci starts squeeing and elbows Jaime again]
Jaime: OW!

Bart: This car moves too slow! Will someone please explain to me why this is even slightly crash?
Ed: My friend, sit back, relax and watch me terrorize the other drivers.
Bart: Well now, that does put a new spin on things. Drive on amigo!
[The two of them crash into the car with Garfield and Perdita]
Perdita: Oh-ho! You'll pay for that peasants!
[Cut to Virgil driving around solo and his car is bumped by Jaime and Traci]
Jaime: Buuurn!
Traci: We got you good ha ha!
Virgil: [sighing] Gotta get a girlfriend.

Perdita: What's wrong Eduardo?
Ed: It's nothing your Highness.
Perdita: No, no. Stop that right now. Garfield and I have a rule, there is no "Your Highnesses" of "Your majesties" or any of that among friends. Y soy es amigos no?
Ed: Por Supuesto Perdita.
Perdita: Then we'll start over. What is wrong Eduardo? You stare at that girl. You are concerned for her?
Ed: I failed her. She's a newly minted meta-human, and I was helping her learn to control her powers.
Perdita: And that didn't go vell.
Ed: No. She convinced herself that she needed that inhibitor collar. I suppose it gave her the illusion of control. Once she put it on, something inside her just...died.
Perdita: And it breaks your heart. [she immediately goes up to Wendy] Hi. I'm Perdita.
Wendy: Oh, oh. I...I know who you are! Your uh, Majesty.
Perdita: Oh I'm not anyone's majesty tonight. I love your hair.

Jaime: It's Vertigo.
"Count Vertigo": That's Count Vertigo to you, peasant.
Garfield: [groaning] No. Perdita!
"Count Vertigo": My dear niece, I believe it's time for a family reunion.
Perdita: Uncle, You cannot vin the crown by...killing me.
"Count Vertigo": You have so little imagination, child. Bring her.
"Henchy": Lead the way, "boss." He he he he- [Perdita cuts the evil laugh by punching "Henchy" in the face, only hurting her hand in the process] Karabast, girl. That was pathetic.

Blue Beetle: This is so frustrating! We're so close but we can't get any closer!
Scarab: Scarab can stop the Count Vertigo, Jaime Reyes, by blowing his vehicle out of the sky.
Blue Beetle: Scarab, no! The goal is saving Perdita, not sending her to a fiery death.
Scarab: It helps when you specify such things!
Blue Beetle: It's implied!
Traci: Scarab wanted to blow it up, didn't he?
Blue Beetle: How'd you guess?
Traci: You know, I think can bring it down without injury. [she fires a magical wave that dislodges a fuel line from the whirlybird] That should do it. They'll have to make a controlled landing now.
Scarab: I could've taken out the fuel line with a precision attack.
Blue Beetle: Dude, you are the king of overkill. You never suggest precision.

Bart: [Jojo punching "Henchy" ineffectually] Ow! What are you made of?
"Henchy": [knocking him back] Sugar and spice and everything nice.

Scarab: Preparing a precision attack to destroy the Father Box.
Blue Beetle: No! Superboy says Father boxes are living machines, like you. We're the good guys, we don't kill.
Scarab: There's just no pleasing you.

Beast Boy: It's not about the limelight.
Kid Flash: I'm more of a lemon-light person myself.
Blue Beetle: Look, we were here, so we helped.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

KARRIN> Glad to see you're okay. Hopefully everyone else here was as lucky.
Hey, new friend, I’m glad you made it! Hey, new friend, as long as you are with us, you are home! It really sounds like where you’re from is overrated! But now you’re here, we’re never gonna leave you alone!

Third! One of the towns very near us lost power, but we got lucky. Hoping you guys can get some rain out there, too.
Karrin Blue

Glad to hear Henri was reduced to a tropical depression, stay dry East Coast folks!

And maybe send some of that rain over to the West Coast? We could use some of that with our wildfires.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Oh, guess I'm first.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]