Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

A Happy Bard Day!

Happy to report that my Phunny Goliath plush arrived this week. I can finally stop being jealous of Alex Xanatos's gargoyle plush, lol.

And unrelated, but Owl House and Amphibia, people! [SPOILER] A confirmation on Emperor Belos and now more mystery behind this trickstery-Collector entity. And here I thought the guy was time-traveling at the end of "Elsewhere and Elsewhen". Maybe he's just long-lived or something. As for Amphibia, I was ready to peg Leif as a relatively recent ancestor for the Plantars, but was reminded here that Andrias is over a 1,000 years old.

When both series make a point that we shouldn't assume things are the same in the multiverse (Hunter complaining he didn't know what bananas were was a great bit from today's episode), it can personally get confusing that the passing of time is often presumed consistent with our own. I had a similar quibble in The Good Place until I experienced the riot that was Jeremy Bearimy d: [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Sat, Apr 23, 2022 2:24:41 pm EDT from 68.2.64.232

[SPOILER] @Alex/Aldrius: That's what I love about Young Justice, that they're adapting the whole DC Universe and they make it feel lived in. It has that je nais se quois. [/SPOILER]
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posted @ Sat, Apr 23, 2022 9:28:26 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

[SPOILER] What do you mean? It was a nice little cameo but I don't see the symbolism in it. And I LOVE KMR but think he's a bit miscast as J'onn.
Matthew> Yeah I LOVE Phil Morris's character in Green Lantern (I've watched a lot of episodes in like 3 days while I'm working :P). It'd be great to see him make a comeback too.

So many cool DC characters to use. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Sat, Apr 23, 2022 3:10:12 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

Alex/Aldrius, actually [SPOILER] I think that it was way better, symbolically, that Lumby played M’gann and M’comm’s father. [/SPOILER]
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Become a writer; you can be petty." ~~Roshni Chokski
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 9:04:54 pm EDT from 174.210.4.184

[SPOILER] After the cancellation of Young Justice and GLTAS, there was a lot of fan art of Artemis and Razer consoling each other after the loss of their loved ones (and plenty of Wally talking with Aya). If there was any interaction with the original Team, that would be a nice nod to the fandom.

But speaking of actors reprising their previous roles, considering that Phil Morris as a prominent part this season, it would be awesome if he reprised his role as St. Walker from GLTAS. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 4:43:16 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] I mean M'gann, Artemis and Nightwing are probably about the same age and they're all still members of the team. I don't know if there's necessarily an age requirement, and a covert ops team sounds like a better fit for him than being members of the Justice League. If he... needs to be a member of a team at all, honesty. My point was more he'd be a fun recurring character for the show beyond giving him his little send-off here. But maybe, this will lead to them green-lighting (pun intended) a new version of the Green Lantern series in some form. Or honestly I'd be fine with them integrating him and Kilowog and some of the other supporting GL:TAS characters into Young Justice.

There's already like 25 subplots going on in any given season anyway. Maybe that's why there's a fourth Green Lantern now, maybe it's Jessica. Though if she's a member of the Justice League that seems like it'd defeat the point of introducing her to be a young protégé for Hal or John or something. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 10:54:12 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

[SPOILER] Orion doesn't seem autistic, just that he has his own space-god-unique issues that are paralleled with Amistad's autism. [/SPOILER]
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posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 10:37:45 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

[SPOILER] Razer is an adult (Kilowog calls him a kid, but in his backstory he was grown, enlisted in the army, and married before he joined the Reds) so he wouldn't really fit on a team of young heroes. Not to mention he's still questing for Aya - the last member of the main quartet from GLTAS - and if he finds her, they'll probably keep on doing the Lantern-standard knight errant thing, travelling around and saving people. But it'd be cool if one day some Team kids were lost in space, nowhere to go, and almost ready to give up on hope, and then... [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
All will be well.
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 10:17:03 am EDT from 72.10.127.194

Karrin - [SPOILER] Ah fair enough. So a more major recurring character is what you're looking for.

While I think this is the last we've seen of Razer THIS season, if the show gets renewed I could see him making a come back. I'm actually kind of down for this launching a new version of the Green Lantern series or integrating elements of it into Young Justice. Maybe Razor as a member of the team/the Outsiders?

Though... now that they've shown a willingness to bring back actors from other shows to reprise their roles, it really bums me out even more they didn't just have Carl Lumby play Martian Manhunter in the first arc this season. Love KMR, but Lumby's just SO good in that role. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 9:56:39 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

>Alex:[SPOILER] In this case, I'd say Orion is autistic-coded, while I'm referring to an explicitly autistic adult, and preferably a human. In general, autistic people don't get portrayed as adults except as villains or savants; because of that, and because this is specifically about Rocket and Noble's concern over their young son - a story where so far allistic people have been the only ones to have opinions or perspectives - it would be meaningful to have an autistic person to say 'I've been where your kid is, here's part of what worked and what didn't and why' and 'I survived, I grew up, Amistad will too.' That's a perspective we pretty much never get in these stories, and for that to land here, it would be kind of important for that to be coming from a person from Earth, not a space god.

It's similar to the issue around nonbinary and asexual nonhuman characters in sci-fi/fantasy. Robots, aliens, that kind of thing - on the one hand, it's cool to see yourself represented in something fantastical, but if that's all you get, it can feel like the message is that you yourself, nonbinary people or asexual people or autistic people, only exist in fantastical settings, not as real people who are as normal and natural as anyone else. And, while I did like the idea that New Gods - pinnacles and paragons of might that they are - can also be autistic, that's dampened by the explicit, verbal connection between Orion's autistic-coding traits and his being the son of Darkseid. It's hard to go 'see, this is so much not a flaw or curse or defect that even the space gods have it' when the only space god we see with that trait seems to think it's because his dad is MegaSatan. Even if that's supposed to be what he believes rather than literal fact, it's not a great sign for New Genesis if either his parents never corrected him or he never met another autistic New Genesian.

And, finally, the other reason I want more explicitly autistic adult characters is pure numbers. Orion is tied to the Fourth World subplot; he's very unlikely to be a recurring cast member, and I would like to see an autistic character who's pitching in and being an equal part of the group in the main plot, the way every other hero from a minority group does. Imagine if Vykin was the only black hero in the show - sure, he's cool, but he's not going to be showing up enough for that to feel meaningful.

Also, to jump topics entirely - while this was probably the last we'll see of Razer bar some 'montage of heroes across the universe pitching in' cameos, I really do hope he comes to Earth. He's great and, honestly, I'd love to see him chat with Halo; I feel like he'd like that their red power is for protection and defending - and get a kick out of how their green power is for trickery, illusions, and hiding. Plus, maybe Cyborg could join in and they could all complain about Metron.

(and sidenote: I can't remember if Razer was particularly strong for a Red Lantern in GLTAS - although he probably was given that he was a protagonist - but if he wasn't then, being strong enough to recharge his red ring after four years, no lantern, no oath, just rage, then chase Metron around and wreck his shield, probably puts him in the top tier power-wise. I bet Atrocitus must hate that. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 9:12:00 am EDT from 72.10.127.194

[SPOILER] I've probably heard that voice before too (maybe in this show honestly), and just thought it reminded me of Forager.

Yeah Forager's voice is very similar to a voice Cree Summer would use when playing little girls and things. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 5:42:01 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

Alex> [SPOILER] Razer was created specifically for the show so there's not a lot of information about him separate from that.

I knew that was Dee Bradley Baker from the beginning, I've heard that particular voice before but I couldn't tell you where. Dude's got quite the resume.

But I can get the mix up for Nika Futterman with Cree Summer. Forager's voice so similar to the pitch and tone Cree used for characters like Elmyra from Tiny Toons or Numbah 5 from Kids Next Door. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 4:40:32 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] Oh, yeah Chameleon Boy IS Dee Bradley Baker. I dunno why I didn't check the credits. That's a pretty different voice for him, so that's good. I think it sounded like Forager to me for some reason.

Also I thought Forager was played by Cree Summer for some reason, but it's Nika Futterman. I'm really off my game I guess. Sheesh. I'm usually pretty good at that. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 3:00:06 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

Karrin (I realise now I spelled your name wrong last week, sorry) - [SPOILER] Does Orion not count as an adult autistic character? Feels like I'm missing something here.

I never watched an episode of Green Lantern: The Animated Series (well I watched the pilot today), and thought the story was really easy to follow. Granted I know who Kilowag and the Green Lantern corps are -- but I had no idea who Razor was. Mainly I thought a lot of the storytelling just came from Jason Spizak and Kevin Michael Richardson's performances. There wasn't a ton of exposition, but it made a lot of sense to me what was going on. Kilowag thought Razor was lost but they're old friends, Razor has a blue ring but used to have an "evil" red ring, but the blue ring hasn't been working out for him so he wants his red ring back. Metron is a jerk. All told without explicitly explaining the story itself.

My favourite moment in the whole episode was when Razor hugged Kilowag. It made me go "aw" and again, I didn't even know who Razor was. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 2:22:28 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

[SPOILER] One of my aides was very bad. [/SPOILER]
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posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 12:28:55 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

Chameleon Boy is apparently Dee Bradley Baker.
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posted @ Fri, Apr 22, 2022 12:08:07 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

That was quite a revelatory development, and no mistake

[SPOILER] ...never saw a single episode of the Green Lantern series and have only a vague idea of what's going on, I'm afraid... [/SPOILER]
Friendly CIA Spook
Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near? My guess: you remind them of carrion.
posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 8:43:08 pm EDT from 64.191.69.154

Well, I stand corrected! Actually, I got spoiled for this around noon, but honestly the news made me happy enough my mood was buoyed for the rest of the workday, so I can't even be mad about it.

[SPOILER] So, let's see, first things first: the infodump on Lor-Zod was very interesting (also, I loved Bart holding the Cosmic Treadmill - and wjat a great bit of superhero silliness to bring in - hostage on getting told what's what.) I thought it was interesting Lor believes that the Daxamites being put in a red sun system was 'withholding their birthright' - but, of course Krypton WAS a red sun system, and Daxam would have had its own Kryptonian-expat culture. So it sounds like Lor got a lot of propaganda from dear old dad growing up - I feel bad for him, honestly. He seems to have swallowed all that pretty hard, but with parents like that, I wonder how much choice he had, in the end. The idea that the Phantom Zone was never supposed to be permanent is also a good addition.

I feel a little better about the stuff with Amistad, though I still hope we'll get to see an adult autistic character before the end of the arc. Or at least, I haven't heard horror stories about aides in the way I've heard about some other ways schools try to 'treat' autistic kids. And dang, I guess Dakota City has a pretty good education budget if they're completely paying for that. I also wonder if we're supposed to draw a connection between Rocket's frustration that the Corps won't spend more time helping track metas, and Noble's frustration that Rocket won't spend more time working on Amistad's accomodations. The greater good, and how it doesn't leave room for helping smaller goods even if they're personal?

Speaking of the negotiations, Vykin! Glad to see him again. And it was nice to have him outright say that Rocket got the wrong impression of Orion - I'm hoping we can get a view of his good points in the remaining two episodes, but someone who has faith in them - and who is very firm that Orion is the son of Highfather and Highmother - is nice (also, someone should probably let Rocket know that the whole reason New Genesis won't break the treaty first is Mr Miracle's safety - well, that and the ensuing galaxy-burning total war, but 'if we break it then they kill Highfather's son' would probably be an easier explanation than 'if anyone breaks it, Ragnarok kicks off and the universe is destroyed and remade.')

Ok, onto the meat of this: On the one hand, I feel like some people will be disappointed because it's essentially a whole episode send off to a completely different show. On the other hand, it's a send off to Green Lantern: the Animated Series, written by Giancarlo and Jim! Ten years later, but finally getting to see Razer as a Blue Lantern and a Red/Blue Lantern, gosh did that make me happy. Not to mention him and Kilowog hugging. Also nice to see that four years later he's still Razer - ornery and a bit (or a lot) shortsighted, but with his heart in the right place. I also love that 'Well, Razer said he was going to talk to some guy named Metron' is the only explanation
both Vykin AND Orion needed for why their city was half in ruins. They're not even mad at Razer, they get it. This is why your grandkids never call you, Metron, this exact kind of behavior. And Razer rebuilding the statues was a nice touch.

So... YJ continues needing a lot of background reading, but heck, it made me happy enough to get a send-off all these years later I can't mind at all. And the credits scene was adorable too. Sorry Orion, I like the usual song too, but unfortunately we don't have the rights for that. [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 7:13:10 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

The synergy between Young Justice and Green Lantern TAS made my senior year of high school. Wow does time go by.

[SPOILER] And question does anyone know if Lor Zod's mother is Ursa or Faora? The wiki says Ursa but she was made for the film and I wonder if they will go in the comics direction instead. And for the other prisoners I believe I recognized Non and Jax Ur but does anyone have an idea about the others? [/SPOILER]
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 6:57:17 pm EDT from 128.147.28.63

Alex> [SPOILER] Yes, I can confirm that they were going for a smoke show character back in the original series. And with Jason Spisak absolutely nailing the Byronic character, Razer got a LOT of fangirls. It was apparently a complaint amongst the executives of Cartoon Network who for some reason didn't like the fact that the show was drawing in a crowd outside of the targeted demographic.

But I really like that the two series are now connected. Back in the day Young Justice and Green Lantern were the driving force behind DC Nation, before it was swallowed up by the leviathan that is Teen Titans Go! [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 4:30:20 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] I meant Kilowog with one L. [/SPOILER]
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posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 11:16:22 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

[SPOILER] I think it's just Broad Strokes, as TV Tropes puts it, like Catwoman: Hunted. Someone on Tumblr pointed out how the timeline wouldn't match up if it's been four years since Killowog last saw Razer (with an E) and John Stewart was just being recruited as a Green Lantern then, but has been one much longer in Young Justice. Same with Aya's appearance in an episode of Justice League Action, looking for Razer.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BroadStrokes

Hal has been silent on Young Justice so far. [/SPOILER]
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posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 11:15:20 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

[SPOILER] I don't know if Green Lantern: The Animated Series is canon to Young Justice, or if Young Justice is just borrowing elements of it. Because I don't know if Hal Jordan and Carol Ferris's roles in the series really add up with their roles in the Green Lantern: Animated Series. But I suppose that's fairly immaterial and I have no idea honestly since I haven't watched the series. I don't actually remember if Hal had any speaking lines in Young Justice yet, I know John did but Josh Keaton's a regular on the series. (As... not-Spider-man).

I kinda like how anti-climactic a lot of the Orion-Raquel-Amistad stuff was in this episode. Raquel tells her ex she's too busy to talk and he's just like "Really?" and then she immediately changes her tone and they talk it out. Even if she's still struggling with the conversation, it's a conversation she's willing to have. Really adult, emotionally complex stuff. Raquel starts bad-mouthing Orion while he's in the room and her friend is just like "oh, he's a cool guy. You should get to know him." and that's... kind of the end of that a bit.

Also, they made Razor a damn smoke show in the series. I dunno if he was that hot in the original GL:TAS. I should probably watch it, but the simplistic CGI really put me off. Normally I'd probably complain that this was a total non-sequitor in this episode overall and there was barely an effort to introduce or explain the Green Lantern characters, but it was such a well told story and the stuff with the rings was so neat it didn't bother me.

I had no idea who Razor was before this episode aired, but I feel like I have a total grasp on this character after this episode. Also super impressed with Jason Spizak's range here. I forgot that was him. He's also playing Forager and even Chameleon Boy in this episode I think. I hope this isn't the last time we see Razor.

Phil Morris is such a cool actor, but I kinda wish he was changing up his voices a bit more here. It's a bit obvious he's playing both Zods and Raquel's husband. He's good in all three parts, and normally I wouldn't mind but it's a REALLY similar tone.

I love the take on the Phantom Zone and General Zod. It's a cool backstory for him beyond the usual: Clark releases Kryptonian criminals hoping for companionship thing and then acts like a simpleton for a while. They changed it up a bit by having "Zod"'s consort be the main driving force in that story in Superman: TAS (though I think his name was like Jax-ur or something instead of Zod). Also I guess Chameleon Boy is a bit of a fascist. "Life imprisonment!" "Punish his underage children!!" Understandable, but wow.

I'm kind of not sure what Bart means about "didn't revert that"? Like... didn't he unambiguously succeed in stopping Blue Beetle and the Reach from taking over the earth and saving Neutron?

This whole season has been kind of disconnected, so I'm glad things are kind of looping back on some stuff from the Mars arc here. I don't actually think it was really necessary, but it works really well.

Raquel doesn't really seem prepared for the treaty meeting. The New Gods have their reasons for not engaging Apokalips, The Green Lanterns are being downright impossible. But the League isn't actually asking for much.

The Forager stuff was cute. Also I guess Jay is 102, cripes. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 8:00:58 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

....Well, didn't see that one coming.

Here's my thoughts on episode 19 "Encounter Upon the Razor's Edge!"

[SPOILER] So....Green Lantern the Animated Series is in-canon with Young Justice. That took me by surprise, I honestly thought if there would be any mention of it it would be a slight reference like the treasures from Gargoyles. But I guess we know why Hal hasn't shown up as much in this series as John or Guy. And it was honestly so great to see Razor's arc continue and to find some manner of balance between rage and hope.

So this is something that I've wanted explored for some time now, using two different rings not as a stat boost or as a temporary thing. But a proper exploration of one's character and how two or more specific emotions can be an intrinsic part of their being. Guy had that for a while, Green and Red, Red and Violet. But the status quo inevitably set back in and he was just a Green once more. Not here though and even if this is the only time we see him again it will be nice to know that he still hasn't given up.

So watching this episode and Metron's usual callousness I was reminded of that old saying, "Never raise more devils than you can put down." We saw his scientific curiosity and general amoral nature back in season 3 when he was willing for Cyborg to be consumed by the Father Box just to collect data and now he's strung Razor along just to see a Red Lantern in full action. I kept saying, "This is not going to end well for you" and honestly thought the Mobious Chair was going to be seriously damaged just because he decided to act like a dick. But I really like his comeuppance, the super-intelligent being who treats others and their lives as beneath him is completely blindsided because he chose not to comprehend the the Emotional Spectrum. And apparently the New Gods only need to hear Metron to think, "Oh yeah, that explains the destruction" was pretty funny.

Speaking of the Spectrum, we're getting more insight into Rocket and her own relationship with Amistad. I think it's safe to say that her big concern is that she doesn't want her son to be stigmatized by others which may explain why she wants at the very least the image a normal, healthy young boy. But the other big problem she's facing is the matter of her priorities, emphasizing the conference on New Genesis over the dealings at home and with her son. And now I'm wondering if this has been a problem with her in the past, putting heroics above everything else. She was the one that encouraged Icon to public as a hero and she was one of only two from the Team to jump to the Justice League. It could be that the majority of her focus has been on heroics; but did it cost her her marriage? And is it going to cost her the relationship with her son? Like Kaldur is her arc going to revolve around needing to take a step back focus on what's important? In this case her relationship with others? This is just a guess but I think she might've put so much thought on League work that she's missed some of the intricacies that come with autism and how to recognize it and how to work with it. And that would be an interesting take on things, ignorant not because of willfully choosing not to learn and empathize, but because you already have so much on your plate.

And then there's the big reveal, that the Legionnaires have been playing a game of cat and mouse with Lor-Zod over the timestream and how big an impact Conner has had in the future. You know, the Kryptonians may not have intended for the Phantom Zone to be a permanent thing, but whatever rehabilitation they hoped for it didn't take. But this does offer a pretty big mystery and a HUGE shakeup for the villain dynamics. Apokolips may be using Zod as a way to circumvent the Cold War he has with High Father, but it looks like Lor is using Darkseid to release his father and his followers. The question is, will their thirst for conquest take them back to the age of the Legionaires, or will they take a page from Kang's book and secure their rule by conquering the present?

Oh, and the interactions between Forager and Forager were pretty adorable. Though now I worry that Forager will want to stay on New Genesis with Forager. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 4:39:32 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

[SPOILER] GREEN LANTERN THE ANIMATED SERIES IS CANON!!!!!! [/SPOILER]

That is all.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 3:27:42 am EDT from 72.95.140.30

So in relation to Weisman going into entertainment choices and some old Gargoyles fanart/comic, think any one on Earth-16 is an MLP fan?

Especially someone in The Light watching it and hoping/assuming other members don't find out?
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Apr 21, 2022 3:18:17 am EDT from 71.93.3.194

If he *is* in it, he might be Green.
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posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 8:43:08 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

Plus they're already paying for him to be double-cast in this arc with all the Foragers - we could get a whole scene of Jason Spisak talking to Jason Spisak with commentary from Jason Spisak, in theory.
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 8:09:16 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

And it would be cool to have Jason Spisak reprise the role. Young Justice and GLTAS were the one-two punch that really brought him to the forefront.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 7:37:57 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

I think it's because folks are making wild leaps from the episode title, “Encounter Upon the Razor's Edge!”
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 7:15:16 pm EDT from 184.54.103.20

I think someone's probably trolling - I mean, we don't even know if any non-Green Corps exist at all. Though if they did, I definitely wouldn't be surprised by a Razer cameo, since I think Greg's supported bringing back GLTAS before and, well, he's a great character.
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 6:12:31 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

That's great if true. Source, please? Googling "Young Justice", "Razer" didn't reveal anything.
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posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 5:42:26 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

Razer is going to be in the next YJ episode. O-M-F-G!!!!!!!!11
Nick
posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 4:22:31 pm EDT from 91.245.254.36

I believe similarly. Also, I think a vast number of people in the West are nominally Christian (or other major religions) but agnostic or atheist in terms of what they actually believe, even if they go to church, which they may not. Most people would not be credulous to claims that someone was visited by angels, for example.
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posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 12:12:15 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

Masterdramon - [SPOILER] I think you're kind of taking the context a bit out of what I'm saying. I'm not trying to rag on Raquel or say she's an awful, unreasonable person, just that the show isn't portraying any kind of mistreatment or misunderstanding of neurodivergence as righteous. My impression was that probably 95% of the time Orion is reasonable and calm, and he lost his cool in a stressful situation where the larvar's lives were in danger too. I wasn't trying to suggest beating on children is A-okay.

Though honestly, kind of off topic but to my mind, I think a big part of dealing with mental health issues is being understanding, forgiving and recognizing when an effort is being made. I think society is far too quick to judge, and far too attached to holding grudges over mistakes. There're more nuances to that, that I don't really wanna get into, but that's just my opinion I suppose. [/SPOILER]

Re: Atheism. Um... I'm a bit confused by the concept of an "Atheist movement". I'm not sure such a thing even actually exists. I'm Canadian, where to my eye at least, secularism isn't really treated with the same contempt or mistrust that it is in the States. The Prime Minister is probably Christian, but outside of some dark corners of twitter where "White Christians are under attack" he doesn't really need to prove it. But I think in the states one who is an atheist must be extremely defensive things are different.

Like I think I'm much freer to have a really complex set of religious beliefs. I'm an atheist in that I don't believe a willful or sapient god makes any logical sense. I'm agnostic in that I don't believe humans are wise or perceptive enough on a cosmic scale to truly understand the origins or the makings or design of the universe beyond what we can observe, and that pure rationalism is just a largely dull and disinteresting way to look at the world (for me). And I'm a secular humanist in that I believe helping my fellow man and looking out for them makes the world a very slightly better place, and that if everyone did it, the world would be a much better place.

But then I also believe in ridiculous things like when Alan Moore says "writing is magic". I get what he's talking about. Human creation is magic. Imagination is power. Human beings are incredibly impressive creatures, despite their limitations which are often exceeded.
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 10:10:25 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

I almost forgot that today is Tim Curry's birthday.
So happy birthday to that most mad of mad scientists. I am of course talking about Dr. Mystico.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Apr 20, 2022 2:29:54 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

I cannot speak for any atheist other than myself. But that is how I identify. Fully, proudly, and unreservedly.

I could go into great length about the reasons why. Hopefully, I shouldn't have to. It is a deeply personal and fundamentally important part of my identity.

Not saying there aren't jerks who share that same self-identification. Of course there are; I've met a few myself. But as Karrin alluded to, the same could be said for literally every group of people on the planet. If I judged everyone based on the example of some obnoxious twits I knew in college, I'd have precious few friends left.

Instead, I'm proud to include among my friends agnostics, humanists, deists, and devout and less-devout believers of various faiths. I think religion can be a powerful and important thing, for those who find it their calling. Personally, it is not for me. But I hardly think I'm "better" than those around me who hold meaning in it.

Honestly, when I read Greg's latest response, I found it genuinely touching. Consideration for all faiths is rare in popular media; consideration for both faith AND lack thereof is virtually non-existent. It's admittedly difficult for a character to be organically revealed as atheistic, agnostic, or otherwise irreligious without falling into any number of tiresome Hollywood Atheist tropes (one of which, indeed, is that all atheists are smug buttholes).

Personally, it doesn't bother me that the soul, magic, and demons definitively exist on Earth-16, all of which I happen not to believe exist in the real world. As he says, it's genre fiction, that's necessary for the storytelling.

But I don't see incongruity in a character choosing to identify as an atheist even in such a world. Zeus definitively exists in their universe, but there is no real reason to call him a "god" and not apply the same title to any number of powerful beings who don't self-identify as such. As long as the the curtain is never pulled back to categorically proof a great divine being created their universe, atheism remains an entirely rational choice. Not the only one, but one among many.

But hey, that's just one heathen unbeliever's opinion. ;)
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Inside of every demon is a rainbow." - Charlie Magne
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 11:19:26 pm EDT from 98.150.138.224

Thank you for the quote, Karrin, that's a great story.
B
B
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 10:48:56 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

Wow that is a great lesson thanks for the quote!

And to clarify not trying to start drama but in college I dealt with an ilk of atheism who thought they were better then people of faith/everyone else and what do you know they believed that people thought that the earth was flat until Gailileo said it wasn't... when in reality people knew that the earth was round they just thought it was the center of the universe. Which by the way was misinformation by the writer of Sleepy Hollow to make the church look bad.

I am a history major and I believe in the truth. Sorry for the rant.

And to the show, good catch on the Shade when I thought he was 48, when that was his biological age and I am guessing like in the comics he was born in the Victorian Era. Although being shaved I thought he was a teenager!
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 9:43:24 pm EDT from 128.147.28.63

Oh, yeah! Honestly I'd assumed that was the case anyways, but mostly because I have a soft spot for Shade as the Victorian phantom thief who just stuck around through shadow witchcraft.

Also, I always thought Wally got out of the mask illusion because, well, he's got some experience telling the little self-doubt imposter syndrome goblin to shut up, and he made up the metabolism thing because he didn't want to tell the others that (it'd be kind of personal in the middle of a fight, and all.) Kinda surprised some people took that seriously...
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 9:24:02 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

I missed yesterday's Ask Greg, I guess we have official confirmation that Shade is immortal in this universe considering his and Ra's long history.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 9:07:24 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Sorry for the double post, but I found an actual quote as well, not just the rephrasing that gets bounced around the internet, from the rabbi Moshe Lieb: "There is no quality and there is no power of man that was created to no purpose. And even base and corrupt qualities can be uplifted to serve G-d. When, for example, haughty self-assurance is uplifted it changes into high assurance in the ways of G-d. But to what end can the denial of G-d have been created? This too can be uplifted through deeds of charity. For if someone comes to you and asks your help, you shall not turn him off with pious words, saying: 'Have faith and take your troubles to G-d!' You shall act as if there were no G-d, as if there were only one person in all the world who could help this man - only yourself."

And I think that's a good way to look at it (and a good introduction to Jewish atheism and secularism, though that's probably less relevant to this particular topic.)
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 8:50:57 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

I don't know Greg's mind, obviously, but I doubt he's talking about modern God-is-dumb-pure-rationalism that's just an excuse to look down on other people. But I'm reminded of an apocryphal story from Martin Buber's Tales of the Hasidim:

There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.

One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”

The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs and act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that god commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”

“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”

So, without bringing toxic atheism into it - because some people will be jerks no matter what and sometimes they use religion or lack thereof to do it - that's one reason why someone might find it admirable.
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 8:35:52 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

After viewing today's recent comments is Greg talking about secular humanism when he says he admires atheism? Because the modern atheist movement is rather toxic and I don't see why anyone would aspire to be one. Sorry if I am bringing up a non show related issue but after dealing with atheist dude-bros in college I can't let their misconceptions stand.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 8:26:39 pm EDT from 128.147.28.63

My understanding was that Connor's initial disinterest in women had some fans thinking he was gay and DC was all, "What?! No! He's uh...just awkward around women! Yeah, that's it. Anyway, he and Mia are a thing now. Oh not anymore."

I'm just glad they went on the record and actually confirmed it.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 6:50:57 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Thanks, Gorebash!
B
B
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 4:33:06 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

My understanding is that Connor's been subtextually asexual for a while, but this is the first time they're actually going 'it's not just that he's awkward or was raised by monks, it's his actual sexual orientation.'

[SPOILER] Also, my understanding was that Orion's meltdown was kicked off not by being attacked, but specifically by having his helmet knocked off, and that that was meant to remind the audience in some way of Amistad screaming when he didn't have his hat. That's part of why I was (and still kind of am, so far) uncomfortable with the paralleling a violent outburst to an actual autistic kid, especially when the idea that disabled people are dangerous is such a common stereotype (when really, disabled people, children particularly, are statistically much more likely to be the victims of ableist violence.) [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 3:39:43 pm EDT from 72.10.127.194

Test, test
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 3:39:15 pm EDT from 72.10.127.194

Things should be back to normal.
Gorebash
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 3:23:11 pm EDT from 204.144.15.9

There's an issue with the server. It's causing the 'wrong secuirty code' error when posting a comment and viewing some pages in Ask Greg may result in the phrase 'nobody here but us chickens' appearing. It's an issue I can't fix myself, but I've contacted the server admins about it and hope to have it resolved soon.
Gorebash
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 12:12:49 pm EDT from s8.org

[SPOILER] After the device zapped him (full in the face), he focused on the device. He only changed focus to Raquel after she imprisoned him.

But if his rage is triggered by being attacked, it was perhaps naive to send him into a situation where being physically injured was a possibility. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 12:44:34 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

[SPOILER] It certainly did not seem to me that Orion had the slightest bit of control, or inclination, to moderate his strength by that point. The larvae fly a good distance and hold their guts in pain, so he clearly hurt them. And I honestly find it kind of galling that anyone would think hitting children is the kind of thing one can walk away from with a simple apology. Especially as he was clearly seconds away from attacking Raquel as well before Mother Box calmed him down.

Putting it this way...I'm pretty sure that any real-life diplomat who had a mental breakdown and physically assaulted two young children would, at a MINIMUM, expect to be removed from their delegation. Even if those children turned out to be miraculously uninjured.

As for Raquel's "beef," I'm fairly certain that was because of Orion's constant micro-aggressions against the Bugs. She keys in almost immediately on Supertown's segregated, privileged society and it obviously doesn't sit well with her. Arguably it's unfair that she focuses that initial ire on Orion, but he is (A) in closer physical proximity to her most of the episode and (B) tends to be blunter than the other New Gods ("saying the quiet part out loud" as it were), so he becomes the "face" of their discriminatory society. When he then physically assaults two young members of the same minority he's been treating with something between disdain and condescension all day, in her mind, it justifies her very negative first impression.

None of this is to say one can't have sympathy for Orion's psychiatric issues. I certainly do. Nor does it mean Raquel was in the right to use such pejorative language.

But it certainly didn't come out of nowhere. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Inside of every demon is a rainbow." - Charlie Magne
posted @ Tue, Apr 19, 2022 12:04:21 am EDT from 98.150.138.224

Karrin> So they're finally letting Connor Hawke be asexual again? They've bounced around that sort of thing for years now.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 10:55:36 pm EDT from 73.170.229.149

I think most of the characters would like Steven Universe, especially those with particularly positive and compassionate attitudes like Halo and Miss Martian. Garfield might find it triggering what with the title character's dead mom being a key plot point, though.
B
B
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 8:57:58 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

[SPOILER] There's no reason to believe Orion could have killed them, or didn't have any control over his strength when he struck the device away from them and didn't kill them. After which he focused solely on the device. [/SPOILER]
B
B
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 8:54:14 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

ANTIYONDER - If we place the present-day part of "Amphibia" in the year that it premiered (2019), that sets the date of the "betrayal" to 1019 - some years after the Wyvern Massacre, of course, and one year before Gillecomgain slew Findlaech and Macbeth and Demona first met.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 8:09:41 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

So the recent one of two Amphibia segment "The Core & The King" gave us a look in King Andrias' past, and the young version was voiced by Zeno Robinson in his first noted role in the credits.

Also I'm thinking I'll at least include it in the tidbit section on GargWiki, but like "True Colors" he once again in the present (Keith David voice and all) talks about being betrayed 1,000 years ago.

Again, I think it's notable enough for the tidbit section since the creative team are familiar with Gargoyles.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 7:55:46 pm EDT from 71.93.3.194

I feel like Halo would like Steven Universe - first seeing it because Lian likes it, then liking characters like Garnet and Stevonnie (plus they seem like they'd be a fan of musicals, and the musical idea that songs are what happens when you feel so strongly about something you can't just talk about it.) And I could see Jaime really liking Mythbusters, since apparently he's the kind of nerd who complains about sound in space when watching Star Trek.

Also, on the representation front - apparently (spoilers for DC's upcoming 2022 Pride anthology comic), [SPOILER] Connor Hawke will be officially out as asexual! And in a comic with an all-ace creative team, and an autistic writer. So I'm definitely going to be looking forward to that!

https://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/2022/4/18/green-arrows-son-connor-hawke-comes-out-asexual-superhero [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
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posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 7:49:09 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

Masterdramon - [SPOILER] Yeah, I'm not saying Orion didn't do anything wrong, but ultimately, thankfully no one was hurt. I just find the word "monster" harsh, and it seems like she's had a beef with him since the moment she met him. Orion's outburst was contextual, and he apologized. I just feel like Raquel should probably know better I guess. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 4:55:29 pm EDT from 65.95.86.37

MASTERDRAMON> [SPOILER] Mistakes were made. [/SPOILER]
Algae
"People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it." - Princess Bubblegum
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 4:18:35 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

Right now I'm just waiting for the next episode before posting anymore thoughts on the characters and Rocket's arc.

But going back to the previous week's interview, there's several characters who were skipped over. I personally wonder about what kind of things Zatanna, Mal, Karen or even La'gaan liked to read and watch.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 4:18:18 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Aldrius: Again, [SPOILER] Orion violently assaulted and easily could have killed two young children. Yes, he wasn't in his right mind at the time. But it doesn't absolve him from responsibility for the act. He's just very fortunate that Bug larvae seem to be pretty hardy. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"Inside of every demon is a rainbow." - Charlie Magne
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 1:11:14 pm EDT from 98.150.138.224

Second.

[SPOILER] One thing I wanna kinda extrapolate on, though, is that Young Justice is an ensemble show. Last arc was "Kaldur's arc" but it was fundamentally much more Orin, Orm, or even Vandal Savage's story. Just told with Kaldur as a sort of anchor for the narrative to look through.

I rewatched the episode to make sure I knew what the hell I was talking about. And I hope what I'm saying does make sense too. But as much as the narrative is following Rocket, I think this will up much more being Orion's story. Though the show blatantly sets up that Rocket's issue isn't that she doesn't think her son is intelligent. Her problem with her son seems to be that she thinks getting help isn't worth it? I guess? Like -- seemingly, she hasn't got the tools to help him. And maybe that's more what the arc is about?

Certainly Amistad's father accepts him for who he is as far as we can see, and no one (Lightray, Highfather, his mother) seems to have a problem with Orion or his manner at all. Rocket's the one with the problem, and it's a personal one. Also Orion is certainly a heroic character, at least in terms of DC lore. Though even here I thought he was very effective until the end of the episode. And also -- the way the narrative plays out, it never portrays Orion as a problem at all. Again, Rocket's the one with the problem, she's the one who needs to change.

I hope none of that comes across as dismissive. I'm not trying to say that there's no way to have a problem with the story, just that, I guess, personally while watching it my sympathies were totally with Orion, who I thought was understandable, while I found Rocket's attitude contemptable. Like I'm not even sure what her basis is for calling him a monster. He had an outburst after getting shot in the head with a laser, and then needed treatment to help him calm down. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
Check out my anime podcast "Two Gays One Episode" on Spotify or YouTube!
posted @ Mon, Apr 18, 2022 7:59:05 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

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