BRAINIAC - [What I'm actually more interested is any potential non-sapient species on the island that have Third Race ancestry, equivalents to Sleipnir.]

I've wondered that as well. We got to see a lot of the human-animal combinations from Greek mythology among the New Olympians (minotaurs, centaurs, echidnae, etc.), but no representatives of the "all-animal" kinds, such as the Hydra, the Chimera, etc. Are such creatures living on New Olympus as well?
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2023 7:48:08 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

Matthew> I've actually wondered quite a bit about the NOs genetics, frankly. Considering the magical side of their heritage, I'm pretty sure they're better for playing fast and loose with actual genetics than the mutates or hybrids like Delilah. What I'm more curious about is how far the interrelatedness extends. Obviously further breeding with members of the Third Race is possible because magic, but are they truly separated from humanity? They're not one of the Races, so presumably they aren't truly speciated from their core humanity...which means the possibility of children for Sphinx and Terry and that offers a MUCH bigger question mark for me as to what said children might look like.

What I'm actually more interested is any potential non-sapient species on the island that have Third Race ancestry, equivalents to Sleipnir. There are a LOT of questions I would have for inter-species genetics when you've got a magical X-factor (hah) to play with. Not to mention the fact that they can literally genderbend, something that has a MAJOR impact on specific issues with mammalian developmental genetics. What would amuse me greatly though is if whatever magical mutagenic factor at play with the NOs or even Fox and Alex is just absolutely beyond Anton's grasp. THAT would be extremely fun to watch.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2023 7:43:09 pm EST from 184.54.103.20

JURGAN - Thanks for sharing that. (Your mention of your "fantasy casting" him as Keith David reminded me of that retelling of the Norse myths I wrote that I mentioned earlier this week; when I got to the part where Thor was visiting the castle of Utgard-Loki and undergoing the various challenges there, I imagined Utgard-Loki being voiced by Jonathan Frakes as Xanatos. That stemmed from Utgard-Loki's speech to Thor at the end about the real nature of those challenges reminded me of Xanatos's "what-my-real-plan-was" speeches.)

If you haven't gotten your book published, I hope you find a publisher soon.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2023 6:50:15 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

Todd, I noticed that too, but then I love that technique in general. In my own novel, characters frequently refer to a terrifying vampire they call Mr. Legare (rhymes with "degree"). Then about two-thirds of the way in he appears, tosses one of the villains around like a ragdoll and cripples the protagonist. And in my mind he's played by Keith David.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Sat, Mar 4, 2023 6:13:29 pm EST from 98.60.149.57

A thought that struck me while I was writing a review for the latest issue for GargWiki (which, by the way, contains a reference to Brainiac's recent analysis on Michael Peter Maza's nature). In his introduction of Dino Dracon - having the other characters discuss him before he makes his on-stage entrance - Greg Weisman is apparently repeating the way he introduced Gillecomgain as the Hunter in "City of Stone Part One" (who, again, got mentioned by people like the grainary guards, Demona, and the Weird Sisters in their gargoyle-guise before he appears on-stage). (Greg discussed this some years ago - in his ramble for "City of Stone Part One", I recall - mentioning that it was influenced by a similar introduction of comic-strip hero Steve Canyon.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2023 10:15:53 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

All this talk of genetics also got me thinking about the New Olympians and they being the descendants of the Third Race and mortal humans. Now on paper their appearance and physiology is meant to emulate the creatures and deities of classic myth but I'm generally curious on what magic does to human's cellular structure and and whether this creates a sort of...X-Gene so to say.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2023 6:37:19 pm EST from 98.248.2.24

Matthew> [SPOILER] Random insertion IS actually a concern, particularly for older transgenic technology. Some of the genes used in mice in the lab I work at are specifically targeted to insert at a known allelic locus with zero unintentional effects on the mice. However, that's more for avoiding displacing normal genes rather than adding randomized new ones. I don't know how the insertions made it into the germline to make a call one way or the other, but overall, I wouldn't be SURPRISED if other offspring have other traits, but I wouldn't necessarily expect it by rule of drama - in my thinking, having a child/children that can be in public with the grandparents but not so much the parents offers more dramatic tension). [/SPOILER]
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Fri, Mar 3, 2023 9:31:49 am EST from 129.137.96.2

Brainiac> Putting this in spoilers just to be safe.

[SPOILER] One theory I had in the back of my mind and that I think I saw somewhere else, is that if Talon and Maggie have other kids they might inherit other mutate traits. Michael is already implied to possess the mutate's enhanced bioelectricity so what would that mean if he had a sister that possessed working wings? Or a brother that had feline features like his parents? [/SPOILER]
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 7:16:32 pm EST from 98.248.2.24

Thanks for sharing, Braniac. That goes deeper into the biology than I usually go, but I've known about the germ vs. somatic line for a long time and that is exactly why I long suspected that the mutates would produce human children. Good stuff.

I don't think Sevarius thought Michael would turn out to be a mutate, but maybe he had some reason to suspect that some of the mutagen would work its way into the womb. And, clearly, it did. I'm not entirely convinced that Sevarius is unaware of Michael's power. Especially as he analyzes the data collected. I think he's going to figure it out, if he hasn't already (or didn't immediately and just played dumb). That DNA test sure was quick afterall.
Matt
"Well, I'm back..." -Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 6:48:57 pm EST from 24.107.111.141

Greg mentioned at Voices from the Eyrie" that he avoided the "gargoyles were created by magic" since he didn't want to encourage charges of Satan-worship against the show; however, the notion of the gargoyles as natural beings of biological origin certainly led to a lot of fun essays and speculations among the fandom.

And it took me a while to get the "curry favor" bit. Oops.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 6:47:51 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

Ah, Phoenician got to it before I did, Craig!

As to the weed dive, I can see what's still left of it, but it was fairly well synopsized later on; namely that it's quite possible the means of germ vs somatic determination is different for gargoyle eggs vs human egg cells (inheritance vs induction). A good starting point is actually Wikipedia's Germ cell page, particularly the section on specification:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_cell#Specification

Mind, that's where to START, not to stop. But yes, there's debate and theorizing on which method is "truly" ancestral and which developed via convergent evolution. The data is not sufficient to move out of speculative at this point, but an ancient taxa like gargates could certainly be provocative in its potential data. Another reason for Sev to play with syringes (like he needs more). You can also look over the Wikipedia pages on somatic mutation and germline mutation to get a somewhat more clinical and informative look at some of the points I made earlier as well (the mention of cystic fibrosis on one is why I went with that example comparing what Sev was doing with the mutates to real-world genetic science). Honestly, despite his sheer and utter unethical behavior, Sev IS a pioneer - genome editing was really just getting started in the 90s in reality; the decade overall was more about discovery and proving the validity and necessity of the field; it's when the bulk of the Human Genome Project took place, after all - October 1990 to April 2003...

...damn, twenty years next month. That's awesome in several definitions of the word.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 11:32:33 am EST from 129.137.96.2

I also enjoyed the biology lesson, Brainiac. And as Phoenician said, it's not the first time. Matt in particular used to make a lot of interesting analyses of gargoyle biology. It was rather bold of Greg to insist that everything about gargoyles should make sense biologically; it would have been easier to simply say the gargoyles were created by magic and then no one would be able to question plausibility. As for Sevarius, my guess is the kidnapping was Thailog's idea and Sev didn't think it was worth talking him out of it. And he got to collect data on how mutate pregnancy works as well.

"I think it's really a tough thing, because there are *a lot* of DC fans now, who probably don't wanna see the same stories over and over again, with the same long winded exposition explaining what Kryptonians and Martians are, or did you know how Uncle Ben and Bruce Wayne's parents died? Did you know that's why they fight crime? It can get very repetitious. But I'm sure there's some 10 year old out there who doesn't know who Uncle Ben is."

Seeing Martha Wayne's pearls drop has become such a cliche. On the other hand, I think sometimes fans overstate the repetition. There were a lot of hacky jokes a few years back about "how many times do we need to see Spider-Man's origin? Why does every Spider-Man movie have to show the origin?" It happened twice. Once in the first Raimi movie, once in the first Amazing Spider-Man. Twice is not saturation. It helps that Spider-Man has one of the best origin stories IMO, since it was written to be a standalone morality play. But Spec Spidey does it well, showing the bits that are relevant when they become relevant.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 10:52:27 am EST from 98.60.149.57

Love the biology, Brainiac. And, in fact, if you've ever swam through the Comment Room archives, you can easily see that such rambles of this subject matter were quite the frequent sight. I know that I at least would love to dive into the weeds more and see what you deleted vis a vis gargates and mammals.

Craig: [SPOILER] ". . . curry favor." -- HA, well done. d: [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 9:20:33 am EST from 72.216.220.229

I'm not a DC Comics expert, but I didn't have any trouble following "Young Justice" when I watched it on DVD (at least, the first two seasons; I haven't seen Seasons Three or Four, so I don't know how accessible they'd be to a relative outsider). A lot of the cast were entirely new to me, but I still got the basic sense of who they were - at least, whatever was relevant to the story. The same with "The Spectacular Spider-Man".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 8:39:25 am EST from 70.176.217.135

The issue of DC or Marvel and their adaptations, especially in television is a tricky one. A well done series can introduce characters to new viewers organically and without using any knowledge of the comics as a crutch. The Earth-16 of Young Justice is perhaps the most fleshed out universe of any DC-related adaptation I've seen and for the most part does a good job filling in the more obscure or lesser known parts of DC's universe. Of course there are hiccups though. The New Gods feature prominently in one episode of season 1, are mostly absent in season 2 except for the hook at the end of the finale, then take a bigger role in the future. Maybe in one of the cut episodes of season 2 we'd see a bit more to ease us in us who knows?

When I did my in-depth reviews of the series I made sure to include a brief bit of background information on some of the characters of the episode because not everyone gets a chunk of spotlight dedicated to detailing what their deal is.

But for all the flak that Young Justice's time skips get, I still think the DCAU did it worse. Going from 7 members to over 40 of them when Unlimited premiered. And even fewer got a moment of focus because the showrunners had a bad habit of playing favorites and not always thinking their plot threads through.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 5:36:37 am EST from 64.85.245.77

This version of Granny is amazing; I *LOVE* her in Young Justice. I like the DCAU version a lot too (Ed Asner is of course amazing), but this version is *stellar*.

Todd - To be honest I always found that Batman thing kind of tacked on, since it's pretty much the only hint at Batman even existing and it doesn't really add anything to the themes or story or even really fit the show except as a nod to fans.

In terms of DC and Marvel stuff I think it entirely depends on the show. Young Justice generally works without knowing much about DC, but I think it also takes for granted a lot of the broader/more basic stuff. It doesn't really take it's time so much to explain certain aspects of the DC universe. Mostly I think to avoid retreading ground covered by other series and movies. Sometimes I think it does this to it's own detriment, though. Like I think it doesn't bother to explain much about the New Gods, largely because I think those characters/concepts were *such* a big part of the DCAU where they explained it *extensively* and the characters have popped up now in so many other projects that it probably felt redundant.

But I watched Young Justice with my cousin, and I'm pretty sure he was very confused during the New Gods sections of Young Justice. And when we watched Apokalips Now (the first appearance of Orion in the DCAU) they had like a 2-3 minute video explaining who the New Gods were, and I think having seen that made him appreciate season 3 & 4 of Young Justice more, just having all that information. That's not a knock at Young Justice at all, just it's very interesting how the whole zeitgeist of super hero media works. Like some people complain that because of the 5 year time skip we never see why or how Robin becomes Nightwing, but we already saw that story in Batman: The Animated Series, and I'm not sure there's much Young Justice was doing with it that would have been that interesting or novel. Any of the relevant character stuff I think was very well covered in Robin's story in season 1 and season 2 of the show. Just because we didn't see the transition doesn't mean it's not understood or well explored or explained why 13 year old Robin became 18 year old Nightwing.

I think it's really a tough thing, because there are *a lot* of DC fans now, who probably don't wanna see the same stories over and over again, with the same long winded exposition explaining what Kryptonians and Martians are, or did you know how Uncle Ben and Bruce Wayne's parents died? Did you know that's why they fight crime? It can get very repetitious. But I'm sure there's some 10 year old out there who doesn't know who Uncle Ben is.

Incidentally another thing Spectacular Spider-man does *very* *very* well. Reiterating Spider-man's backstory in episode 11, but in a way that felt fresh and relevant, and like a new story rather than just an info dump to explain what's happening.

I didn't really mean to go off on that tangent, but well here we are I guess.
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 3:15:07 am EST from 70.27.162.19

Brainiac: Thanks for the insight! I agree with you, re: Sevarius's personality. He's not smarter than Xanatos or Thailog, but he has training that they don't have. And he's SUCH a bad actor and a ham, that it's easy for them to confuse when he's being genuine and when he's being authentic, which actually works in his favor. I agree with your assessment that he probably knew the baby would be human, but he's playing his ignorance to curry favor.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 1:03:49 am EST from 209.140.39.248

One thing that only occurred to me after taking a bit of time to think things over and turn it around in my head was to wonder exactly how ACTUALLY surprised Sevarius was at the kid appearing standard human. He should have KNOWN the likelihood a complete conversion into the germline was virtually if not actually nil, even for the technology and understanding of the time. So was he just being dramatic for funsies? Playing along to not risk angering Thailog who I very much doubt has any deep personal understanding of genetics? Is Sev actually dumber than we think? Or is his own hubris so vast that he actually thought he could pull off the (nearly) impossible just because he really is that damn good?

Mind, these are all musings coming from my point of view; I can't speak to authorial intent here. But yes, in my opinion, given his own intellect and expertise, Sevarius should have known the kid would be standard human (hence why that last scene is the real shocker - pun intended).
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Thu, Mar 2, 2023 12:46:29 am EST from 184.54.103.20

BRAINIAC - Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and especially making them something that a layman can follow. I was particularly amused at the "Weismann" element; its name was certainly a striking coincidence.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 7:45:04 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

Just remember...you all asked for this.

<deep breath> Okay.

The thing you have to understand is that the biological material that makes you up splits very early in development into two distinct cell lines. There's the somatic cell line which is basically you - your organs, your brain, your body, etc. It's basically all of you. But there's another line buried deep inside - the germ line. And that's what leads to your reproductive material. And this is pretty much across all sexually reproductive species - the cells that divide via meiosis as well as mitosis are effectively cordoned off in utero.

<deleted large aside on another likely biological difference between gargoyles and humans I warned you I'd likely go into the weeds>

So basically, in many real-world animal cases and DEFINITELY in the case of the mutates, Sevarius is altering their somatic cell lines. This isn't particularly "difficult" in the sense that somatic cells deal with mutation and mutagenic factors fairly often. There are quite a few theories relating to this, but I'm trying to restrain myself. Think of what Sev did as similar to modern treatments for things like cystic fibrosis. You expose lung tissue to a retrovirus which injects corrective DNA into the cells, causing them to behave properly. Unfortunately, lung tissue is relatively constantly replaced, so the treatment wears off without continuous reapplication. Sev is basically mutating ALL somatic cells simultaneously, already a tall order.

But then there's the germ line, deliberately kept safe to avoid mutation and corruption. And, as said, effectively cut off from the rest of the cellular makeup. Now, it's absolutely true that reproductive material CAN be mutated. There's a reason potential for genetic effects is a concern for astronauts - more ionizing radiation exposure. A somatic mutation might be giving an astronaut cancer; a genetic mutation might be giving their offspring cancer. Considering the target of Sev's mutagenic formula, it's fairly clear which way it was geared.

So Sev targeted the somatic line. But is the germ line untouchable? Absolutely not. In fact, we can create such modifications today. In truth, any animal modified by genetic transfer, either natural or artificial, is transgenic (the transferred gene is defined as a transgene), but we usually define a transgenic animal as one that was modified by altering/adding genes to the germ line. This is done at the developmental stage - injecting DNA into a fertilized ovum, for example. But to modify the germ line in a fully developed and specified adult organism? That's another doozy.

To be fair, the creation of the mutates is very much science fiction. But it's fiction that is not without potential to become reality (though perhaps not QUITE so impressively and hopefully NOT as unethically). The germ line carry over and effectively generating transgenic offspring in ANY form whatsoever? THAT'S the biggest impressive development from my point of view. And Sev did all this with the genetic technology of the nineties. That's like a kid with Tinkertoys building the Taj Mahal (an exaggeration, certainly, but the emotion behind it should be clear).

The key point I always felt though was that neither Sevarius nor Xanatos were looking to create a new species outright. The mutates are definitely a subspecies at best, still conclusively Homo sapiens. And that makes SENSE, really. Speciation usually takes obscenely long amounts of time and would indeed result in biological incompatibility - the mutates would, at best, have sterile hybrid offspring with any normal human, much like most mules. I could see Sev being interested in trying that out of sheer hubris, but even Xanatos I think wasn't that far gone looking to play God at the time - he just wanted gargoyle equivalents.

So, overall, I think the kid being mostly standard human makes the most sense from a scientific standpoint and likely a dramatic one as well (but I leave that argument to Weisman himself).

Also, as an amusing aside, one of the major genetic theories as Lamarckism (the idea that parental changes led to offspring developments, like giraffe ancestors stretching their necks leading to modern long necks) died was that of a barrier between the "immortal" germ line producing gametes (sperm or ova) and the "disposable" somatic cells...and it's called the WEISMANN barrier (as it was first proposed by August Weismann). The concept still has some relevance today, though it requires qualification given our knowledge of things like horizontal gene transfer and the like, but it still has some import even now. In fact, going back to my early deleted aside, one of the forms of development of the germ vs somatic lineages is called "Weismannism" or "Weismannist development" - this is the form of differentiation found in most animals. Most unfertilized eggs are asymmetrical with different amounts of mRNA and protein in different regions. So that may well be how gargate reproduction works. Mammalian reproduction, on the other hand, is signal-based - a few early embryonic cells are induced by neighboring cell signals to become the primordial germ cells. Mammalian egg cells are somewhat more symmetrical and early on are totipotent, meaning they can become any cell type at that point, including germ cells.

There's a whole discussion and debate there on the forms of differentiation that I'm deliberately not going to get into any more than I already have because I'm already fairly deep in the weeds now so I hope none of you have hay fever. Suffice it to say though, the idea of the barrier is not absolute, though heritable effects may only be epigenetic (phenotypic effects that do not alter the core genotype/DNA sequence of an organism).
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 7:10:09 pm EST from 184.54.103.20

I've wondered from this discussion whether it's safer to watch DC-and-Marvel-based series with only a basic knowledge of the source material, as in my case; if you don't know as much about the original comics, you won't know about the changes from the material.

On the other hand, it might be more a case of "Be willing to accept liberties with the original story". A few years ago, I shared with a friend some of a retelling of the Norse myths I'd written. In it, I depicted Loki as Odin's blood-brother, as in the original Norse myths. My friend knew Norse mythology mainly from the Marvel version, where Loki is Thor's foster-brother instead, and thus found the depiction of Loki's family ties with the Norse gods being different than what he was familiar with, but he took a tone of "There's several different versions of these stories", and thus had no problems with it. That seems like the right approach to take when watching an animated adaptation of DC or Marvel.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 6:57:25 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

Ron was amazing as Slade, his even and quiet tone basically set the standard for me in his other villain roles.

"Influence" was a great intro to the Furies and boy does Granny live up to her title of Goddess of Child Abuse. And Troy Baker was amazing as Guy Gardner, balancing the right level of genuine help and headache-inducing nuisance.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 6:04:39 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

Wow, I asked Greg a question about whether Foswell was the real Big Man like 15 years ago at The Gathering. He asked me what I thought, and awkwardly said something like "I hope not." Then I got hit with "no spoilers." Afterwards, I realized what I was trying to say was that Foswell being The Big Man wouldn't make sense in the story, but it seemed like the fact of adaptation meant he had to be. I don't think that anymore, but I do think Foswell's ex-con background is an essential part of his character. But who knows, maybe if we'd gotten more than two seasons we would have learned that he did have that history. Anyway, I wasn't expecting a response from the man himself, but it's nice to finally close that circle. Rare that you get to follow up on one of those "what I should have said" moments.

Young Justice 3x14: Influence

This ep gave a lot of broader context. We saw the Justice League dealing with issues in deep space and suspicion from aliens. I'm pretty sure the mistrust comes from a time in the earlier seasons where they were brainwashed for several hours and did some damage off-world. We finally got to see Granny Goodness and Desaad throw down, more than holding their own against the A-List of the League. And Barda! Love Big Barda, and she's impressed by Superman saving her. Guy Gardner is kind of a douche, but they put up with him.

Not much happens with the main cast, it's kind of downtime for the Team. But several new members are added, and we see the first of Halo questioning their identity. It's a great moment, though obviously a controversial one. There have been times I felt like this show did too much at once and I got whelmed trying to keep track of everything (Superman picking up the kids' lingo was adorable), but I think this episode did a pretty good job of showing the wider world while still giving us something of our core cast.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 2:47:02 pm EST from 98.60.149.57

1. Ben Urich is a Daredevil character. We didn't have access to him.

2. Misdirection.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 11:29:19 am EST from 70.227.91.143

Alex: I can see that. Like I said, I did enjoy the show and it's not a big complaint. But there are a few moments that clanged, like when Beastboy got a job at a fast food restaurant and said "my name's Beastboy." I guess we're in the sort of world where people don't question that. Generally, I think the show did a good job walking the line of silliness and heartfelt moments, like that great scene where Cyborg and Starfire discuss racism.

And I loved Ron Perlman's Slade, no doubt. He was a one-man tone shift, whenever he showed up everything got more serious. The scene where he hunts down Raven and brands her is extremely dark, basically coded as r*pe. He was also my first exposure to that character and didn't even use the codename Deathstroke (ironically the exact opposite of the heroes who only used their codenames). I imagine DC purists didn't like changing a hired assassin into a criminal mastermind. I had similar thoughts about Frederick Foswell in Spectacular Spider-Man- if he's not going to be The Big Man, what's the point of putting him in the show? Why not just use Ben Urich instead?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 11:03:38 am EST from 98.60.149.57

I recall that they did get a slight Batman reference near the end of Season One when Slade told Robin that he hoped the latter would come to look upon him as a father, whereupon Robin replied "I already have a father", followed by a glimpse of some bats.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 7:40:13 am EST from 70.176.217.135

I honestly really love the 2003 Teen Titans show and gotta defend it a little. They didn't need secret identities, the show was really just about a bunch of kids playing superheroes, it's pure id child-like fun with just enough edge to keep things interesting. I think there's plenty of interpersonal character drama without getting into the weeds on home lives, parents, batman, whatever.

The second season with the Judas Contract storyline is my favourite for sure. It's so well done. It *feels* like a defilement without having anything explicitly sexual, and it *all* comes down to Ashley Johnson and Ron Perlman's performances. So amazing. I've always just thought Ron Perlman sounded like a ghost or something. Not even like a supervillain, or a thug, he's just a specter. And never seeing his face and never knowing anything about him adds to that.

Young Justice always went for more like Deathstroke being a sort of laissez faire tough guy. Which is fine, it serves it's purpose but I think it's a lot less unique. Deathstroke is a much more minor character in Young Justice anyway.

I think Young Justice uses it more as like... an engine to push a bunch of storylines at once. Terra is one of many spinning plates, a small piece of a bigger pie in Outsiders, whereas even though it's only like 4-5 episodes total, her arc in Teen Titans season 2 gives her the whole pie to work with.

Having said that, I think Outsiders is SUPER underrated but I'm not a *huge* fan of the midseason finale. I can't remember exactly why, there's some cute stuff, but it didn't feel like it lived up to the rest of the first half of the season for me. I really need to rewatch it, though.
Alex (Aldrius)
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 2:15:40 am EST from 70.27.162.19

https://www.deviantart.com/antiyonder/art/My-Collection-Picture-261-950438391

All of the Phoebe and Her Unicorn books until the new volume in April.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 1:31:21 am EST from 71.84.183.196

B, Todd Jensen and well anyone who wants to look some more>

Got the bulk of my collection uploaded to Deviantart. Have some oldies I'll post sometime but most will be current purchases.

At any rate, this pic has the most recent Weisman penned stuff along with an autobiographical GN about Jack Kirby: https://www.deviantart.com/antiyonder/art/My-Collection-Picture-422-951318574
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 1:22:50 am EST from 71.84.183.196

One of the executive decisions was "No origin stories."

Because of that, there's nothing dedicated to their time, short as it may be, before they became superheroes. Nothing to determine exactly which Robin he's supposed to be, no life with Garfield with his birth parents, no football career before Vic became Cyborg etc.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Wed, Mar 1, 2023 12:24:07 am EST from 64.85.245.77

And I got the impression, from what I saw of it, that it was aiming for a relatively comedic tone that wouldn't have matched such elements as the leads' civilian identities. (If not quite as comedic as "Teen Titans GO", based on what I've heard about it.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2023 10:29:48 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

2003 Teen Titans, while good, was unfortunately too attached to its status quo, which was five teen superheroes and that's about it. Even when Terra officially joined the team she didn't really do anything until her eventual betrayal. Even her tenure was only about two episodes.

Of course the series also suffered from shorter seasons and a lot of behind-the-scenes meddling didn't help.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2023 10:19:12 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

I vaguely remember a post or article, I assume it was when this episode first aired, where somebody said "I was thinking we were getting a big twist on Terra, but I should have known she always turns out to be a traitor." As for me, I keep getting surprised by these civilians turning into characters I recognize from Teen Titans 2003. I enjoyed that show, but I was always kind of annoyed at how the heroes seemed to have no lives outside the Tower or even civilian identities.

B: Thanks for letting me know. I did something similar on Twitter when I was watching The Wire, and while writing the comments were fun it was discouraging how I got basically no engagement.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2023 6:36:33 pm EST from 64.106.38.254

Ah, "True Heroes" following this was a months long hiatus so you can only imagine what we were thinking after the reveal with Tara. And you'll learn the motives about her soon enough, that and more. In fact, this is probably my favorite take on Terra that's ever been done.

Incidentally, Troy Baker's character is called Mister Bliss. And the callbacks with Icicle Jr. was how he unintentionally helped Superboy deal with his feelings towards M'gann in the episode "Terrors."
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2023 5:05:17 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

Hoping everyone is having a great day!
Customized Gate
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2023 4:44:44 pm EST from 180.191.210.101

Brainiac> I look forward to reading it! My earliest areas of interest were genetics and mythology.

Jurgan> I'm enjoying these reviews.
B
B
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2023 11:03:12 am EST from 74.74.246.146

"I'm fairly sure there is no legal "right of first refusal" for voice actors."

In general, no, but with something like Young Justice that was off the air for several years before being brought back, there might have been a requirement to ask the original cast first. I know that happens with movies sometimes- when Die Hard was made they were required to offer the lead to 70+ year old Frank Sinatra because it was based on a book that was a sequel to a book that inspired an old Sinatra movie.

Young Justice 3x13: True Heroes

This episode was packed. Tons of stuff went down, hard to list it all. Halo and Cyborg fought as proxies for Mother and Father box, and Father is seemingly vanquished. It was odd seeing Violet's hair loose for the first time, there's probably some symbolism about letting her guard down. We got to see a huge fight sequence at the auction, where Troy Baker was playing something like Mark Hamill's Joker while quoting the Emcee from Cabaret. The shots of Oracle and the others scanning through the computers showing all the clues they've gathered- I'm not sure why, but I really liked it. Maybe it was because it shows Dick has inherited detective skills from Bruce. And at last Brion is reunited with Tara, who I didn't realize until now was Terra. We now wait for her inevitable betrayal of the Team- she's already in contact with Deathstroke. I wonder what her motive is.

This show is finally starting to click for me. The focus on a small group of younger heroes is helping. I feel it's similar to Greg's "here's what you need to know" philosophy on the new Gargoyles comics. There's history between the older characters and the side villains (like the Icicle guy fight, full of callbacks to things I barely remember). But what we need to know is what's going on with our new characters, and they work well together.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Feb 28, 2023 12:28:06 am EST from 98.60.149.57

You can't, Todd - I'm second, so you can only go fourth (couldn't resist).

I'll wait until Wednesday. Seems more sensible since it's not really about spoilers save the one.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:20:32 pm EST from 184.54.103.20

I second Matthew. Go ahead.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2023 6:52:09 pm EST from 70.176.217.135

Why not? Wouldn't be the first lengthy bit that's been posted here (I'm certainly guilty of that) and sharing your scientific expertise could be insightful.

If you don't want to put it in Spoiler tags, you can wait until wednesday. A week after the comic premieres is our cutoff point for spoilers.
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2023 6:40:45 pm EST from 64.85.245.77

Secundus.

As a few people know, I went off on a bit of a spiel concerning Issue #3 in the Disney's Gargoyles Discord, discussing certain revelations from the point of view of actual genetics, both current and of the times. And I use the terminology "went off" because I had to split it up into three posts.

Yes, I hit the Discord post character limit. TWICE. I was a tad verbose, textually speaking.

So, just wanted to know if anyone wants it immortalized in here in all its genetic science nitty-gritty and, if so, whether or not I should spoiler tag it.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2023 5:30:06 pm EST from 129.137.96.2

First!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Feb 27, 2023 12:01:40 am EST from 98.60.149.57