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Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending August 1, 2021

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For the record, people who write fanfic can and have gone on to work at Marvel, DC, etc- the issue with a fan film is presumably that if it's being sold or anyone's getting paid, then that's copyright infringement. Fan works are fair use because no money changes hands (among other factors.) And, with a film that involves many people, actors, animators, etc, it's not fair to ask people to pitch in for free.

And, of course, the executives can tend to be... touchy. People have to generally be careful to not make it seem like they're unhappy with directions from the top, because there could be retaliation.

That all being said, because fanfiction is done for free, it's not illegal, and - when it's a fan engaging with the work, rather than a show creator going against orders from the top - pretty unobjectionable, as far as I know. Plenty of comic and show writers by now got started writing fanfiction, and some still do - heck, Noelle Stevenson posted her She-Ra missing scene fic on AO3, and Yoon Ha Lee's written Yuletide exchange fanfictions for his own books. The problem with the Spidey fan film boils down to money, and it being seen as a dig at the executives, so your own fanfic shouldn't be a problem.

(At least, as far as I understand it, not being anywhere near the industry or anything.)

Karrin Blue

Excuse me, but we try to keep things PG-13 at most around here.
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

You need a motherfucking decent forum. This shit was already prehistoric in the 2000s.

We really need a "This is not 'Ask Greg'" sign in here.
Todd Jensen

hi greg.

so i just read one comment of yours from years ago saying that you couldn't do a fan film of spectacular because you would never be able to work at marvel, dc, sony, etc ever again

so my question is; would someone who made a fanfic or something NOT official about something be able to work at those companies? i mean, before becoming a pro.

2) sorry for any mistake, i'm from brazil

3) do you think you guys failed in season 3 of young justice? i've seen so many ppl hating this season. not me, i liked a LOT to be honest. totally crash ;)

4) big fan!

emma - [allukarepresentantelgbt at gmail dot com]

GONTOR> When Disney lets him.
Look at my face, child! It has furnished for me a lonely life in which none would have me as a man. So then let me be a god

when Greg going to revival Gargoyles? Yes or no
john paul gontor - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]

ANTIYONDER> [SPOILER] Once again... Hooty ruins everything. [/SPOILER]
Look at my face, child! It has furnished for me a lonely life in which none would have me as a man. So then let me be a god

Todd Jensen> I'm talking about the current Owl House episode.

JOHN> Sorry, Greg Weisman doesn't answer questions here. You'll have to wait until the Ask Greg queue opens up again. But I'd personally be very surprised if we didn't get a trailer at DC Fandome in October.
Look at my face, child! It has furnished for me a lonely life in which none would have me as a man. So then let me be a god

when you are going to release the trailer of Young Justice Phantoms
john paul gontor - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]

KARRIN> I was already vaguely aware of Yeo from her voice work on Wolverine and the X-Men plus a couple of other places but her performance as Shiva utterly captivated me almost from the first syllable.
face, cLook at my face, child! It has furnished for me a lonely life in which none would have me as a man. So then let me be a god

Thanks for the review!

I love Gwendoline Yeo as Shiva here, she's got a great balance of calm and menacing. I don't know why, but her delivery of "Yes, you could do that." always sticks in my head. I also love the concept of the Leaguer playdates - it's the sort of thing that reminds you these characters all know and like each other, they're a community in addition to being coworkers. And - although it probably won't happen until, I don't know, season 7 or something - a generation of the Team where half of the members have known each other since they could toddle could lead to some great character dynamics.

Godfrey and Gretchen's interview is, I have to say, a favorite of mine - it's just great to have it as the sort of thing where we the audience can tell they're immortal co-workers who have hated each other for millennia, but it makes sense that the characters would think they're just a pundit and an entertainment magnate who can't get along and know their sparring makes for great ratings. You love to hate them! Or I do anyways.

Karrin Blue

MATTHEW - Thanks for the latest review. (Your quote about Bart calling one of those toddlers "Dad" reminded me of a Donald Duck comic by Don Rosa where Donald enters Scrooge McDuck's dreams to foil a Beagle Boy scheme and winds up visiting Scrooge's family during his childhood, where he meets his mother Hortense - Scrooge's younger sister - as a little girl. Donald, upon realizing who she is, cries in excited delight, "Mom!', upon which everyone stares at him in astonishment, including a McDuck family portrait.)

ANTIYONDER - Are you speaking of last week's "The Owl House" or this one? I certainly agree with you about the changes this season to the status quo (I was particularly impressed at how they modified the opening sequence a few episodes in to include such changes as [SPOILER] King's horn getting mended [/SPOILER]).

Todd Jensen

So anyone catch the recent Owl House? Some status quo shake ups, plus [SPOILER] Unexpected Lumity progress I would have expected maybe the next episode [/SPOILER].

Matthew> Yeah your theory on Orm is pretty sound or at least I think so.

Now for something I'd be interested in seeing if we get more crossover plays is any commentary on Ms. Goode from Peter Parker. [SPOILER] Maybe evil mastermind Aunt May fully realized [/SPOILER].


And as the Boy Scouts say, "Be Prepared."

Watched "Home Fires" today, an interesting episode in that both the A plot and the B plot feel equally important. It takes a distinct amount of skill to give parts the same kind of weight and know that cutting either one would lessen the episode.

To begin with, there's the bounty on Forager. Now it's revealed at the end of the episode that killing him was never the main objective, merely for the Light to confirm that Nightwing has assembled a new team and its members. Now it would seem strange that the Light would go through the trouble of hiring an intergalactic bounty hunter for something that could be confirmed by a simple reconnaissance mission but there's a couple of points to that. The first is the fact that this new team has been on the down-low for the most part; their only public appearances being the fallout of the Bedlam Syndicate in Markovia, the little incursion on Infinity Island and their battle against Cheshire's gang. And they wouldn't know about the last two if Ra's hadn't told them and they weren't keeping tabs on other people involved in meta-trafficking. The second point is more headcanon than anything else, we see later on that Mantis and several members of the hive acting as hired muscle for Apokolips, I figure that hiring the Main Man to take out the "race traitor" would be a good way of helping to secure their loyalty.

Speaking of Forager, I haven't spoken on it much but of the new characters he's the one with probably the most social awareness, surprisingly enough. Even taking away the fact that he was the first one to realize they were being tested at the beginning of the episode and was the one to ultimately fool Lobo, he's picked up a lot of dynamics in a short amount of time. Though he's still learning the more complex things like dialogue. I do appreciate the irony of Nightwing informing Geo-Force that he needs to train for a surprise attack right before all of them are all of them are blindsided by Lobo.

But the other big part of the episode is the hero family gathering, the return of Ocean Master and the "nuclear option." This sort of thing has been on my mind ever since the League fell under mind control back in the end of season 1. I thought it would've foolish of the villains to not learn the identities of the heroes while they were under their control, and to not take advantage of that would be even more foolish. What we see here is just how cautious the villains are about not taking this sort of thing lightly. Which makes sense when you consider things like the Injustice series or any other story where the heroes get pushed too far. When it comes to villains killing heroes, or even hitting that close to home, I'm inclined to believe that the Light operates under the principle of, "In the heat of battle all bets are off, they knew what they were getting into." But that only applies in-costume, at home or when the masks are off, going after the civilian side just attracts too much unwanted attention. They may have had to adopt this way after Queen Bee killed Marie Logan out of spite, but I think we're just guessing at this point.

On that same note, I have wondered under what the circumstances were for Ocean Master's disgrace, imprisonment and bitter resentment that would cause him to act so rashly. I have my own theories, which tie into a certain character's appearance but to be on the safe side, I'll put it in SPOILERS, [SPOILER] In the Aquaman comics there was the infamous "Death of A Prince" storyline which involved an elaborate plot by Black Manta that saw Aquaman's young son die by suffocation. My theory is that the plan was enacted but by Ocean Master rather than Manta, and it failed leading to Orm being revealed as Ocean Master. In order to save himself from execution at the hands of the Atlanteans, Orm spilled his guts on the Light (but not enough for the Light to kill him) which is why by season 2 the heroes know that their enemies call themselves the Light. [/SPOILER] Again, this just my guess and I haven't had the best track record on those when it's come to this series. If anyone else has an alternative theory I'd love to hear it.

One little thing I like about this episode (besides the grand irony of so many heroes and their families being saved by the villains) is the nature of legacy. On the one hand you see so many little super-kids that may one day fill their parents' shoes and carry on their heroics (something DC rarely takes advantage of). And on the other hand we see within the Light that even in the upper echelons, no one is irreplaceable. Deathstroke taking over for Ra's, Ultra-Humanite replacing The Brain (and having the benefit of not needing a gorilla manservant) and Granny Goodness for Black Manta. And we'll definitely see more of her in the future...

Some Final Thoughts: We get another Halo death this episode, killed by impalement on Lobo's grappling hook. So despite Lobo's regenerative abilities, he didn't immediately start regrowing his lost finger like when he was hit by both Black Lightning's blasts or Geo-Force's lava. It could very well be that Halo's powers have a potency that no one's really aware of, it makes me think about what that could mean in the future. The exchange between Godfrey and Goode makes me think the two of them have had plenty of conversations like this before, they've just had to clean it up for public television. So we get our first mention of the meta-human rehabilitation center, nice of STARS to learn from their mistakes when it came to the Runaways. And finally, we see a lot of characters making their animated debut here like the Tornado Twins, Amistad Ervin and Jonathon Kent.

Acting MVP: David Sobolov is always a delight as Lobo and Deborah Strang makes a great first impression as Gretchen Goode.

DC Profiles: Lobo was actually created as a parody of the more EXTREME superheroes that were pervading comics in the late 80's and early 90's. An intergalactic bounty hunter he is the last member of the Czarnians, the details are a bit sketchy but one thing that's usually agreed on is that he's responsible for the destruction of his species. Or as the Main Man once put it, "Fragged the whole planet as a science project and gave myself an A!"

Sandra Woo-San, better known as Lady Shiva began her career in the kung-fu craze of the 70's. Nicknamed "The Deadliest Woman on the Planet" her dedication to the art of fighting, with or without weapons, is unrivaled. Usually ranked within the top 3 when it comes to martial artists, she possesses a dark sense of honor and has often trained heroes in martial arts, on the condition that they dual her to the death some time later. Ruthless in combat, she ultimately seeks a superior fighter who will end her and has on occasion spared those who have impressed her or legitimately taken her by surprise.

Favorite Lines:

[Doorbell rings and Dawn and Donnie zoom off giggling]
Iris: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Donnie! Dawn!
Bart: No worries, I can keep up with the Tornado Toddlers. [He scoops the two of them up]
Iris: Thanks, Bart. I really appreciate the help. Today especially.
Donnie: No, no! Down, down!
Bart: Come on, Dad! Stay whelmed.
Iris: Don't call him "Dad"!
Bart: Oh yeah, right. Spoilers. Sorry, grandma!
Iris: And don't call me "grandma"!

Raquel: Karen, you came!
Karen: When you're invited to join a club this exclusive, you don't say no.
Amistad: You got a baby in there!
Karen: That's right Amistad. I do.

Halo: Hello Brion. I, I mean Geo-Force. Geo-Force.
Geo-Force: Hello Halo.
[Forager elbows him]
Forager: No, not like that. Forager will demonstrate. Hello Violet. Forager means Halo. Halo. Do not worry. Geo-Force will soon learn.
Dr. Jace: Hello children.
Geo-Force: [flatly] Dr. Jace.
Dr. Jace: Thank you for allowing me to join you here.
Tigress: Thank Jeff for convincing us.
Jefferson: Oh, she has.
[hawk screams in the distance]
Forager: Hello Doctor Jace. Forager means Doctor Jace. Doctor Jace. Forager is Forager.
Dr. Jace: Hello Forager.
Forager: Hmm. Humans can be very slow of study.
[Dr. Jace gives a hug to Halo]
Dr. Jace: Gabrielle, it's so good to see you.
Halo: I'm not Gabrielle. I'm Violet. Uh, besides, right now I'm Halo. Halo.
Forager: [scoffs] Now Halo is just showing off.

Dr. Jace: Is he insane?!
Jefferson: He was using rubber bullets. Painful, but non-lethal if carefully aimed.
Dr. Jace: That doesn't answer my question!

Lady Shiva: I am impressed. Look at all you've accomplished. You discovered where the parents and children came to gather for their play date. You leased the house across the street, set up wire taps, cameras, microphones, infra-red You've truly mastered the surface world. These are useful skills. Worthy of the Shadows. Not to be wasted.
Ocean Master: I am glad you approve, Lady Shiva. Now watch as I step outside and with one blast from Neptune's trident, deal a blow from which the so-called heroes will never recover.
Lady Shiva: Yes, you could do that. It has been contemplated. As you know, it's what the Light refers to as their...
Both: Nuclear option.
Lady Shiva: But the thing about going nuclear, is that one must be prepared for mutually assured destruction. So the Light has vowed never to use this option lightly.
Ocean Master: Please. I am Orm, the Ocean Master. A Prince of Atlantis. (scoffs) Prince... I should be King! Instead I spent six years inside an Atlantean prison! Six years! I will not be denied my revenge.
Lady Shiva: [sighs] That's what the Light assumed. That's why I'm here.
[unsheathes her sword]
Ocean Master: Hmm?
[Shiva beheads Orm]

Geo-Force: Surrender before it's too late!
Lobo: I can buy a new vest and regenerate new skin, but you sure ain't gonna grow new heads to replace the ones I tear off ya!
Nightwing: Geo-Force, the ground!
[Geo-Force uses his powers to make the earth under Lobo molten and he begins to sink into the magma]
Lobo: Cut it out ya skahvey Earther! The Main Man's gonna frag all you gralrlrghh!

Tigress: Ah, yeah. Welcome to the Fake-Your-Own-Death Club. Its membership is very exclusive and I'm the president.
Forager: [Shaking Artemis' hand and leaving a slime trail] Forager thanks Artemis Crock. Forager thanks all of his friends for risking limb and life to save Forager. The humans here all truly drones in Forager's Hive.
Superboy: Feeling's mutual kid.
Nightwing: We always take care of our own.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

john paul gontor> why you going to release the trailer of Young Justice Phantoms

To build hype, of course! Why else?

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Considering David Cain is honestly not all that interesting a character, perhaps the decision made for Earth-16 was to streamline and have Cassandra be raised by her mother instead of her father.

Frankly, Sportsmaster already hits most of the tropes David is best known for in mainstream continuity (and better, IMHO) while Sandra's position as the Light's enforcer keeps her front and center, so from a storytelling perspective it'd be a sensible move to me.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"There may be a place for me in this man's soul. Not because of what I may receive, but for something of worth I may have for him." - Casca

Could be that Cassandra is emphasizing her swordplay in this series like her mother, or it could be that she knows hand-to-hand combat is pretty ineffective against Clayface.

The nature of the Anti-Light, how it ties into Batman's character (and in most cases lack of character growth) is something to that will be talked about in "Antisocial Pathologies" as well as the season as a whole.

And Cheshire? Oh I've got plenty to say on her and her growth, rest assured.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

why you going to release the trailer of Young Justice Phantoms
john paul gontor - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]

Also, some new questions got answered! A lot, actually - quite a lot of characters (Courtney and the Furies especially) are younger than I'd have pegged them for. It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out. Also, if Traya's 11 now, she'll be 13 in s4, or thereabouts - I wonder if we might see her taking first steps to becoming a hero?
Karrin Blue

The rule of three's a classic for a reason...

Y'know, the thing I remember about this episode is that I really didn't see the reverse-order thing coming. It's such a simple twist, but I completely fell for it. Not everything has to be complicated, I guess.

On the 'when did people get brought in' thing - I think Batman brought the others all in before the League meeting? Jefferson definitely assumes that's the case in Antisocial Pathologies, saying that Batman didn't blindside Kaldur, but that they'd planned it together from the beginning, and neither of them contradict that, and I'm inclined to agree. It also makes Kaldur asking M'gann for moral support take on an extra layer - he's not just asking for her support in facing the League after the disaster on Rimbor, he's asking for her support in carrying out this whole con job, and her response of that he'll always have it then takes on some poignancy (especially considering what he asks her to do in the assault on the Orphanage in the finale arc.)

Wonder Woman is another question, but Barbara does point out later that she's been in space this whole time, and is a fait accompli to everything. I agree it's unsettling, but at the same time, I can see how it'd happen in universe - after all, she's got her hands full directing the war effort against Apokolips, so while they have to keep her in the loop, it's in some ways not possible for her to be more directly involved - which makes it feel more sensible to the homeguard on Earth that they're doing all this stuff without her input.

It's disconcerting, like you say, but at the same time I feel like these are things the show is trying to make disconcerting. These feel like the questions we're supposed to be asking, and blind spots we're supposed to be seeing in our heroes. I still think it's a really interesting move to have Batman be actually, really thinking that the others - most of whom trained under him directly - would only have agreed if they weighed all the factors and decided it was the rational move. It's such an interesting way of showing that a character having high regard for others, and underestimating his pull, can cause issues.

I really would've loved to see all the different ways meta-teen-trafficking is manifesting... When it was announced that that was a theme of this season, I had a lot of ideas most of which I expected to stay ideas, since time's limited and some of them go pretty dark - like shady adoption/foster agencies skimming off kids that're 'unwanted' or simply just 'too old', or lobbyists paid for by private prison corporations pushing to have more teenagers tried as adults, then disappearing them. Maybe it'll be something for S4? Certainly it doesn't seem like something that'll just go away - if anything, I'd expect Apokolips' use of metas to make every other planet start importing metas through groups like Intergang.

I love the use of Cheshire here. I actually have a lot of thoughts on what she's doing in this episode - if you'll forgive some wild speculation, I've been thinking for a long while that (banter with Will and Artemis aside) she really hasn't gone back to villainy, and she knows it, and they know it - rather...

The impression I get is that Jade thinks she's bad for Lian, that she'll raise her daughter wrong, misstep and hurt her like Lawrence hurt the sisters, even without meaning to, so she panicked and ran. But, she's spent enough time around Will and Artemis that she can't return to villainy - she really did go kind of soft. So, she decides to split the difference and fake it, and send intel back to Artemis, much to Artemis' annoyance. Her looking out for Mist and Livewire (I have to think that Jade planned things so that the Gamma squad would have the best shot at freeing them, before they were taken back by Branchwater), then freeing Shade at the end of the episode - Jade in S1 never would've done that, but she's grown, even if she doubts how far she's come. And I love that Artemis doesn't doubt her - her warning that Jade would be like a cornered animal seems to have just been to make sure the kids wouldn't try to come in too, and maybe blow Jade's cover. In the actual moment, Artemis doesn't seem the least bit afraid of Jade, and Jade doesn't even try to posture with weapons - they take their masks off, set down their weapons, Jade shares her information with hardly any teasing and Artemis tells her to just come home already. They're annoyed at each other, but with an undercurrent of trust and care.

Also, hello Cass Cain! Given how important not killing is to her in the comics, I have to think Arrowette's little jab about whether or not she knew or cared that Clayface was Tetch is saying more about Arrowette being unfamiliar with Orphan than it was about Cassandra herself. I also can't wait to find out what's up with her apparent preference for swords over martial arts - could YJ be an AU where Cassandra was trained by her mother in the language of bladework? Or maybe David just tried to give her a more well-rounded education this time.

Also, many congratulations on the podcast!

Karrin Blue

Hey, Congrats on the Podcast.
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Congratulations on the "Gargoyles" podcast, Bishansky!
Todd Jensen

Two episodes of "Voices From the Eyrie" recorded. I forget if I've mentioned it here, but it's a podcast started by Jennifer L. Anderson and myself. We're aiming at a September premiere and are hoping to have a backlog when we go. I guess it's sort of the sequel or prequel podcast to "Spectacular Radio".

So far.

Episode One: "Developing the Show" with Greg Weisman and Greg Guler as guests

Episode Two: "Making the Show" with Greg Weisman and Frank Paur as guests.

We're about to move into specific episode discussion, but we'll likely have other surprises as well.

Updates are regularly posted on our Twitter account: https://twitter.com/FromEyrie

Greg Bishansky - [<--- Voices From the Eyrie]

As a reminder, The Disney Afternoon Adventures TPB came out today. Got my copy delivered a few hours ago: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/206-comics-and-graphic-novels/79585890

Thanks Todd, always appreciated.
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

MATTHEW - Thanks for another episode review. It's good to have those back.
Todd Jensen

The pieces come together...

Watched "Triptych" today which catches up on a lot of different points, what's been going on with the Justice League and Batman Incorporated, the mystery behind who runs the League of Shadows and the continuing problem with meta-human trafficking. But all of this can't be discussed without bringing up the big reveal at the end, that the League, the Team and Nightwing's group are all being directed from behind the scenes by the "Anti-Light." There's a lot to unpack from this and the more you think about it, the more there is to speculate. Was this all planned from the beginning? Or did Batman reach out to the other team leaders so that they may better coordinate from outside the public's eye and away from the Light's scrutiny? Or did he plan on making a big dramatic scene for resignation while also planning on which heroes he would want in his fold? The season began in July and right now we're in late September, there's been plenty of time for adjustments. Kaldur and Wonder Woman both seemed pretty blindsided by Batman's resignation, but at the same time Kaldur's shown to be a pretty good actor. There's also the possibility that Kaldur was invited along but he wouldn't go along unless his co-chair was involved. Then there's the matter of how M'gann got involved, I'd say it's safe to say that she joined up after "Away Mission."

The nature of this clandestine cadre is an interesting one. Now covert missions have been part of the Team since its inception and given their success it does stand to reason that the other heroes would replicate that. What's a bit more confusing is the fact that several heroes, especially Nightwing, M'gann and Kaldur, know exactly how badly things went when they went behind their friends' backs like this. A lot of people's lives were seriously endangered because as Conner put it, "Nightwing didn't feel like sharing." So while they may have expanded their Circle of Secrecy and put in key members to avoid things like messy overlaps there's still overlooking the personal betrayal that was felt after the reveal of Kaldur's "defection" and Artemis' "death." There's one more disconcerting factor; now on a meta sense the explanation to Wonder Woman at the end is to fill the audience in too. But the fact that she learns all of this after the fact is unsettling if she's supposed to be an equal part of this cabal, and that she's the only one to openly question the nature of their schemes shows that she doesn't seem to be an equal part of this.

That same questioning also brings up some more disconcerting points, ones that will be explored later on. Like the part about going behind their friends' backs to make this whole thing work. Now in order to sell the lie it would be more believable to the public if the heroes believed the split was real. But since 99% of work with a secret identity you'd think the Anti-Light would trust them to help sell the illusion. Batman says in the worst case scenario the League at least has deniability. But that's simply not true. Worst case scenario is that all trust is lost completely, the public loses their trust in the heroes all together, and not just the members of the Anti-Light. And the heroes lose trust in their friends, effectively breaking their fellowship for real. Then there's Bat's response to Wonder Woman's inquiry if he expects her to lie. Batman tells her he expects her to use her diplomatic status to avoid taking the stand; conveniently ignoring her stance against lying by omission way back in "Agendas." And her pointed question to the others about whether their comfortable with lying to the others both their discomfort and silence speaks volumes on that problem.

So one criticism I have, not just on this episode but the season as a whole, is a missed opportunity, one due to limited time. It's established in the first episode that meta-human trafficking is being conducted by the Light, criminal syndicates, first and third world countries and corporations. We see an example of the last one, after it's been dismantled. It's been implied that they've been working the Branchwater case for some time, but from here on out all meta-trafficking is going to be connected to the Light and Apokolips in some way and I feel it's a bit of a waste that to not explore alternative villains. And considering that Branchwater utilized both unique methods for acquiring metas while using individual cells that worked independently of each other, it made for an interesting parallel with the Anti-Light. But alas...

Some Final Thoughts: We get a new power from Halo this episode, white with an intense light strong enough to overpower Shade's own mastery of shadows. One thing I love about this episode is that each segment revolving around the same guy but the different character models fooling you so you think they aren't connected until the end. One neat little detail is the brief appearances of certain characters that set up important plot points down the line. Cassandra Cain (Orphan) and Simon Stagg make a brief appearance here and important heroes connected to them will show up soon enough. Cheshire's own struggle here brings up an interesting idea, was her helping Will find the original Roy Harper and getting his life own track an effort to get him to be a better dad because down the line she knew she wouldn't be a good mother? Something to be explored later on. Also, looking at the credits list, I think this might be the episode with the largest cast per episode. And we get a future plot point with the device stolen from STAR Labs and what Dr. Stone was working on...

Acting MVP: Dwight Schultz is an amazing character actor who totally steals the scene as the Mad Hatter. First time I saw this I wondered why they didn't get Peter MacNicol to reprise the role from the Arkham series before I remembered he was already in the show as Ivo.

DC Profiles: Doctor Moon is a genius surgeon (a Nobel Prize nominee) who happens to be completely amoral. He hires out his skills to other villains by patching them up after fights or experimenting on metas.

Simon Stagg is completely unethical businessman whose schemes have had him cross paths with any number of heroes, especially Metamorpho who he indirectly created. A generally unpleasant fellow, his few redeeming qualities are the fact that he unconditionally loves his daughter Sapphire and his grandson.

Shade was originally a minor villain who fought Jay Garrick back in the Golden Age. In 1994 he was reinvented for the Starman series which gave him a lot more depth. Richard Swift was an English gentleman from the Victorian era, a chance encounter with the Shadowlands dimension rendered him functionally immortal and with the power to summon up the darkness there for all kinds of use. A laidback fellow, he plays the role of villain, anti-villain or ally depending on his whim. Still, he does treasure his past rivalries with older heroes like Jay and has struck a few friendships with them.

Favorite Lines:

Shade: The photo didn't indicate scale. It's larger than I was led to believe.
Livewire: I thought size doesn't matter.
[Shade summons up a shadow that begins swallowing up the Meta Failsafe, struggling as he does. Dr. Stone manages to stay conscious just long enough to to hit the alarm.]
Mist: We're out of time!
[Shade finally manages to vanish the whole device and nearly collapses from the strain]
Shade: That's a lot to swallow.
Livewire: Heh. You got to stop handing me these straight lines.

Dick: Good, we're all here.
Jefferson: All? Where's Conner?
Dick: Mending fences with Megan.
Jefferson: Didn't know their fence was broken.
Artemis: Hmm, it's not so much broken as left unattended for too long.
Jefferson: Ah, right. Lynn and I had fence problems... Before the divorce.
Brion: Must we maintain the "fence" metaphor or can we find out why we've all been summoned?
Dick: Okay. I need you to maintain your cool. We've located someone who might have some intel on the League of Shadows.
Brion: Meaning we'll finally find my sister? That's wonderful.
Artemis: Mmm, not so wonderful. The intel would be from my sister.
Violet: Lian's mother? That's great!
Artemis: Not...so...great. She may not be very cooperative.
Forager: Not very cooperative? That's excellent! [They all stare at him incredulously] Not so excellent?
All: No.
Forager: Forager is good at this game.

Doctor Moon: Get out of here! You have no right -
[Tigress knocks Dr. Moon out]
Cheshire: Oh. It seems the doctor is out.
Tigress: I'm glad you're alive. But I have two questions and one statement. Who is running the League of Shadows now? And from where?
Cheshire: You know I have no loyalty to the Shadows. But I honestly don't know who's running them. I do know they're being run out of Santa Prisca. Happy?
Tigress: Ecstatic.
Cheshire: How's - how's Lian?
Tigress: Oh. Well, that brings me to my statement. Go see your kid!
Cheshire: Come on, sis. We both know she's better off without me.
Tigress: You're her mother.
Cheshire: But I'll always be Cheshire first. See you later, sis. [Shade appears] Hug...hug Lian for me.

Spoiler: That's Tetch? For a Mad Hatter, he's kind of, well, hatless.
Robin: No hats. It's a condition of his parole.
Arrowette: Hmm. Good thing he's not called the Mad Pantser.

Mad Hatter: Now, this won't hurt a bit ,or it may be agonizing. Hard to say. Eh he he ha ha ha ha! [Tetch injects the victim and checks to see the saturation process on a computer screen] Now, let's test it, shall we? Raise your right hand. [The subject does so] Very good. Very good. But too easy. Punch yourself. Hard! [The subject visibly struggles with the command but eventually does so] EH HA HA HA HA [Clayfac enters] Ha ahhh what are you doing here?
Clayface: I had to protect you!
Mad Hatter: From what?! [Robin, Spoiler, Arrowette and Orphan burst in] Oh, oh, oh, oh, Oh, Oh, OH! Yes! Yes! Clayface, protect me! Shield me! [Clayface roars and attacks the heroes] You? Time to go. Now, fol-low, fol-low, fol-low!
[Clayface hurls a shipping container at the quartet who only just dodge away]
Spoiler: What is this place? What's Tetch up to?
Robin: I'll find out. Arrowette, Orphan, run interference with Clayface. Spoiler, go after Hatter.
[Tetch and his captive stop by a console and he presses a switch that lights up some C4]
Mad Hatter: [whispering] Self-destruct button. [The captive looks horrified at that revelation] Well, what part of Mad Hatter didn't ya get?! Now, fol-low, fol-low, fol-low!

Sportsmaster: Oh terrific. [Points a hockey puck at Flash and Captain Marvel]
Flash: A hockey puck? Really?
Sportsmaster: Really. [Blasts the two of them with a sonic blast]

Wonder Woman: So this is a win?
Batman: Largely. What troubles you?
Wonder Woman: This! All of this. Between the seven of us, we're coordinating six teams of heroes. None of whom know we're working together.
Batman: It's what we agreed to, Diana. Taking a page from the Light's playbook. To fight fire with fire.
Robin: We're kind of the "Anti-Light."
Wonder Woman: And that's a good thing? The opposite of light is darkness. Is that what we represent?
Robin: Um. Maybe that was a poor choice of words.
Wonder Woman: Or maybe it wasn't. I don't like keeping the other members of the League in the dark.
Batman: Worst-case scenario, they need real deniability. Do you expect Superman to lie under oath?
Wonder Woman: Do you expect me to?
Batman: If it comes to that. As a princess of Themyscira, I expect you to use your diplomatic status to avoid taking the stand at all.
Wonder Woman: And the rest of you? Are you all prepared to lie?
[The other heroes consider this, Kaldur and M'gann exchanging a look, but all remain silent.]

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Todd: Perhaps Scrooge would be up for such a venture it if served a role in his Money Bin's 'magical defenses' per the 2017 series . . . [SPOILER] "Do ye know how many vengeance curses I have on my head?!" XD [/SPOILER]

Re: the Queue -- Just saw that GregW posted 172 responses today alone (perhaps initially answered during the 'down' days for the site?). Activate the "Wow. Just . . . wow" Spidey memes!

I've got the GargWiki itch again (at least for the Illuminati page), where I added at least one new response and a couple older ones I'm surprised we haven't plugged in yet :)

Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

I can just imagine Scrooge making some indignant response if anyone even suggested that he move Castle McDuck from Scotland to Duckburg to "rise above the clouds" (presumably perched atop his Money Bin), protesting the utter expense of it, even if it might restore some potentially useful mythical beings to life.
Todd Jensen

They're also fair employers who pay their employees quite well.
Though Scrooge will gripe and complain even while handing out paychecks and being a good employee won't guarantee Xanatos won't use you as part of an unethical experiment.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Xanatos sends the Nessie sub to eat all Scrooge's ice cream.
Back when I first started at the very beginning, I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important, like you do when you're young.

It could be fun to watch Xanatos and Scrooge in the boardroom. Both are brilliant, Scrooge has a temper and Xanatos doesn't have the... um, temperamental weaknesses that Glomgold or Mark Beaks have.
Greg Bishansky


Thought that recently occurred to me: Xanatos is the second multi-millionaire in Disney animation to have built his fortune upon a small and seemingly insignificant coin. The big difference is that he sold it instead of keeping it.

Todd Jensen