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The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending August 8, 2021

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Late, but, thanks for the review!

I do like the Halo vs Victor fight scene - it's Violet's first solo fight, and she ends up doing pretty well! She's still clearly a rookie, but she's gotten a better sense of her abilities and is doing better at keeping a clear head (though she still has room to grow.)

I do wonder if Dick's, ah, living up to his name, is going to come up again in s4. Like I said before I do actually like seeing this more flawed version; I think he actually is a pretty interesting illustration of how the spy kids mindset can be harmful as much as it's helpful. But there's no denying that in the moment it really doesn't help de-escalate anything. My suspicion is that, going forward, the Markovia plot will mostly involve Halo and Terra (and potentially Superboy as Brion's de facto mentor), and that Nightwing and the rest of the batkids will be concerned with the Red Hooded ninja plot, but it could be interesting to see Dick regretting how he handled things here, or trying to do better with other new heroes in similar situations. That's getting pretty far out into the weeds, though.

Also, wow that was a lot of age related questions. A lot of these characters are a lot younger than I figured - there's something very sad in the Markov parents being killed by someone barely older than their sons (who might've been controlled himself - I've been assuming DeLamb was banking on being the hero who killed the assassin, and it would be very typical for him to have used a chip to guarantee it happened that way.) Or how Mist was being puppetted by those Branchwater nanobots when she ought to have been a freshman in high school. And, of course, poor Anna.

And of course, seconding (thirding?) Being glad to see the queue under 200, especially as we get closer to October and FanDome. I really can't wait to see whatever trailers or posters are in store - of course I'm not expecting to be able to tell much of the plot from them, but even just fuel for speculation will be fun.

Karrin Blue

Under 200 in the queue and, as Todd pointed out, all approved too -- I too want to acknowledge and give kudos to you, Masterdramon :)

I noticed some discussion earlier this week about when Phantoms would debut, and from this latest response (https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=24781), I get the Impression that we're still some time away from the fourth season being completely wrapped up and ready for HBO Max, BUT . . . seeing a nearly empty queue does give the exciting vibes that we're starting to close in on the premiere (and hopefully, some fun promotion leading up to it).

Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."

Thanks Todd, always appreciated.

Algae> Yeah it's established that Silas stays on. Which isn't surprising. They kept the same staff on even after the Runaways debacle.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

MATTHEW> Do future eps establish whether Silas is still working at Star Labs? I'd be shocked if they let him keep his job after that debacle?
You're okay, you're alright. I'll never, ever leave your side. I will stay, I will fight with you.

Todd: No need to apologize. Still quite happy to do it. This site (and Greg's work in general) have done a lot for me over the years, and I appreciate the chance I get to give back a bit.

And yeah, with 90ish% of the questions these days being YJ-related, 'tis probably a good call, LOL.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"There may be a place for me in this man's soul. Not because of what I may receive, but for something of worth I may have for him." - Casca

MASTERDRAMON - Yes, thanks for the work. (Sorry for turning the responsibility over to you those years ago, but I thought that, with all the "Young Justice" questions in the queue, it needed someone far more familiar with DC Comics than I was).

MATTHEW - Thanks for the latest review.

Todd Jensen

And the tensions long since brewing come to head.

Watched "Another Freak" today which mostly focuses on the conflict between Brion and Dick and Vic and his father with the B plot on Halo and Forager starting school. Last episode I talked about the...interesting decision on enrolling Violet in high school considering her unique position. And I really have to wonder the decision of enrolling Forager as well. I get that M'gann and Artemis probably want them to have have at least some semblance of a normal life, but maybe having them jump straight into high school might not be the wisest idea. At the very least we have no idea what form of education Forager had back on New Genesis and only learned English a few months ago through a mental download, plus the whole referring to himself in the third person. High school doesn't always lead to the best time for some people and honestly if it wasn't for the fact that Violet and Forager are a bit on the naïve side, and were otherwise preoccupied with other goings on, this could've been a bad experience for the both of them.

Negligence is a HUGE part of this episode and you get that right off the bat you see this with Silas and his lax safety protocols in the lab. Seriously, anyone who's worked with electronics will tell you how bad it is having electrical cords near doors or walkways. And as for Silas, well all that was needed was one episode to show just how distant he is from his son's life and just how nonplussed he is about missing it. In fact one thing that surprised me when I first saw this was just how little of interest he has in any part of Vic's life. Like I could get the whole "sports interested son and academic father don't mesh" bit, but the fact that he has no idea what his son's GPA is just shows how disinterested he is in anything relating to home. It actually reminds me of the Black Lightning part of The Other History of the DC Universe when Jefferson finds out that his wife Lynn has left him and taking their daughters. And whatever argument he may have is undercut when she asks him if he even realized that there was nobody at the house when he came home. I just wonder when Silas may have realized he was alone, when Vic would leave for college? After he graduated? In any case, that neglect is ultimately what causes Vic's accident.

I also have to point out that the good doctor really isn't as smart, or even all that aware as he likes to think he is. Setting aside the fact that he's completely unaware of his son's grades. He was warned last episode that the Father Box was pretty much pure evil and he dismissed it. He claims that he's the foremost expert on alien technology yet his big plan for saving Vic was "put a Father Box on his dying body and hope that something good happens." Not even at the end of the episode, despite their argument earlier, despite Vic laying out that the life he worked so hard for is now over, Silas just can't get it through his head that his son wants nothing to do with him. Because you don't get parenting points if you only step up at the worst moment.

But this brings us to the second conflict, between Brion and Dick. Now on the one hand, Dick was right about Brion becoming overly obsessed with what was going on his brother and he needs to focus on the future. But let's look at that in a bit more detail; when Brion was feeling lost and unsure of what to do with himself Conner advised him that he needed focus and a goal and Dick (hastily) volunteered the heroes to help him find his sister. So his goal and his focus is on finding his sister, and when you consider the fact that he feels personally responsible for Tara's kidnapping so this goal is pretty personal. But that goal has pretty much been reduced to training and being cutoff of any information. Now Dick may want to keep him from doing anything rash, but that just ignores the fact that had it not been for Brion's previous rashness, they wouldn't have even known that Ra's wasn't controlling the Shadows anymore and the fact that after that debacle Brion did humble himself. There's also the point that this has been building for some time; despite Dick stating that Brion knows they're doing everything to find her (without clarifying who "they" is) when you look at the timeline it does seem like the heroes are dragging their feet. In "Triptych" (September 25th) they find out the League of Shadows is based in Santa Prisca, Batman and his team don't infiltrate until "Exceptional Human Beings" (October 12th) meaning they sat on that information for two weeks and then didn't inform Brion until three days later. So is it any wonder that the constant "patience" line has started to become a meaningless platitude?

There's also the problem with Dick's overall dismissive attitude this episode (and the whole season as well) that really makes him look really callous, like casually hacking Brion's phone and invading his privacy then pivoting from that. Or Wwhen Brion's laying out his problems to Dick he specially mentions his family in that rant, which causes Dick to instead direct the conversation towards dismissing what Brion's lost. But what he's lost wasn't just the prestige that came with being royalty. He's lost his mother, his father, his home, any trust he's had in his brother and every delay runs the risk of losing his sister. I should mention that I absolutely despise when stories try to rush through grief and the morning process for characters, it's incredibly unhealthy in real life and it paints a bad picture in fiction. I'd say it's safe to say that those wounds are pretty fresh and considering Dick's own loss of family, just brushing that off comes off as more than a bit thoughtless at best. You know, if Brion really wanted to fire back, he could've easily brought up that Dick's "patience" caused him to lose those eight kids back in Markovia. But the nature of acting versus reacting and Brion and Dick's next parallel is still further away.

My big criticism still remains the same about how quickly that conflict was brushed aside, if it were up to me I would've had the episode end with there still being some tension between the two. Dick asking if the two of them were good and Brion replying that they are...for now. In the meantime he still remembers that Dick offered to help find his sister and he's going to hold him to that promise. But for the sake of the story and the finale, I guess that it makes sense that this would be set aside or bottled up as it were...

Some Final Thoughts: We get a new power from Halo, Indigo granting the power to summon Boom Tubes, thus completing her power spectrum. There's something darkly ironic about the Father Box referring to Halo as an abomination, that's something that will be touched upon later on though. I was more than a little surprised that Harper Row would show up in the series, especially since we already have Spoiler and Cassandra Cain in the show. I'll explain why that's more important when we get to her profile in another episode. Interestingly, Harper's character model was reused from the DC animated movie "The Judas Contract", the one used for Tara Markov for that matter.

Acting MVP: Zeno Robinson really nails it this episode, the sheer anguish of just trying to get his father involved, the murderous rage when the Father Box takes over, and the disgust towards Silas at the end is just masterful.

DC Profiles: Victor "Vic" Stone was a rising football star unfortunately saddled with a lot of emotional baggage due to his work-obsessed father and mother. When a lab accident killed his mother and severely injured him, his father grafted numerous robotic prosthetics to him to save his life. Rejected by society at large, he later found a new home and family within the newly reformed Teen Titans, becoming one of it's longest running members and even graduated to the Justice League alongside several of his teammates.

Favorite Lines:

Vic: Dad!
[Victor and a STAR Labs security guard burst into the lab, each opening of the door brushing against a power cord on the ground]
Guard: Come on Vic, you know you're not allowed back here.
Victor: Hey, if my dad refuses to come home, I've got no choice but to go to him.
Silas: It's all right Casey.
[The guard Casey, exits the lab causing the door to once again hit the power cord which causes the Reach device it's attached to to start sparking]
Silas: You don't have to make a scene Victor.
Vic: Scene? I haven't seen you in days dad! You missed me crushing it at my game. And the celebration after. And the four college scouts who stopped by to...I don't know, "woo" me.
Silas: I...am sorry about that. Truly. But you won't need football scouts to get into college if you get your grades up.
Vic: I've got a 4.0 GPA! Which maybe you'd know if I was half as important to you as the dumb machines in this lab!
Silas: [Still fiddling with the Father Box] You know my work is important.
Vic: I know it's important to you!
Silas: Stop it. There are things happening in this world that are bigger than you and I. And in any case, I will not talk to you while you are behaving in this way.
Vic: Behaving what way? I'm not some three-year-old trying to get you to taste his mud pie. This is my life you're ignoring! My Actual Life!
Silas: Which we can discuss when you've calmed yourself down boy!
Vic: "Boy"?! Now you're boying me?! [Silas turns his back and starts looking through a microscope] At least look me in the eye if you're gonna-! [sighs] You know what? Never mind. Forget it.
[Vic begins to walk out of the lab. Silas, in a moment of realization gets up from his work]
Silas: Victor, wait.
[As Vic opens the door, the power cord is yanked out of the Reach device causing it spark furiously as the sound of energy builds up into a high-pitched whine]
Vic: Dad?

Violet: Isn't this wonderful, Brion? Fred and I will meet so many new girls and boys.
Brion: Just be careful about the boys. They only have one thing on their minds.
Violet: What one thing?
M'gann: Uh, we can talk about on the way to school. An if we don't hurry, we're going to be late.
Violet: Oh, this is perfect. When we drive up with the guidance counselor and the principal, all the other kids will have to like us. [Violet flies up in excitement]
Artemis: Ah! No. Flying. At School!

Violet: Fred I feel-weird.
Fred Bugg with two "G"s: School also feels weird to Fred Bugg with two "G"s.
Harper: Hey, who's Fred Bugg?
Fred Bugg with two "G"s: [rapidly shaking her hand] Fred Bugg with two "G"s is Fred Bugg with two "G"s!
Violet: He is Fred Bugg and I'm Violet.
Harper: Harper.
Violet: Correct!
Harper: What?
Violet: I'm a Harper.
Harper: I thought you were Violet.
Violet: Yes.
Harper: So which is it?
Violet: Do I only get one?
Fred Bugg: One hardly seems sufficient. Why then would Fred Bugg with two "G"s be called "Fred Bugg with two "G"s"?
Harper: Wait, wait. Hold on. Stop. So, you're Fred Bugg with two G's. Got it. And she's...
Fred Bugg with two "G"s: Violet Harper.
Harper: Violet Harper! There we go. My name's Harper Row.
Fred Bugg with two "G"s: [shaking her hand again] Fred Bugg with two "G"s and Violet Harper are very happy to meet Harper Row.
Violet: You could be our first friend!
Harper: Oh...I'm going to like you two.

[Vic, now cyberized awakens from his recovery, his father helping him up]
Silas: Victor, there was an explosion.
Vic: Ex-explosion?
Silas: I want you to stay calm. I believe you're out of danger now, but...But you were dying son and I had to save you. I had to do whatever I could to save you.
[Vic, seeing through his new robotic eye, his robotic limb begins to shake in panic]
Vic: What...wha-wha-wha What have you done to me?[Vic turns angrily on his father] You ruined me! Murdered my future! [an ominous blare from Vic's machinery is heard as his energy lines and eye turn purple] Now I'll murder yours.
Silas: Victor, wait!
[Another STAR Lab security guard tackles Silas out of the way before Vic can punch him, punching right through the wall instead]
Guard: [drawing his baton] Vic! You've got to calm down!
[The Guard moves to hit Vic who effortlessly catches the blow and begins crushing his arm]
Vic: Do I? [Vic tosses him away] 'Cause I think I'm crushin' it. [Vic grabs the other guard Casey and lifts him by the neck, choking him]

Harper: I've got history, what about you guys?
Fred Bugg with two "G"s: Violet Harper and Fred Bugg with two "G"s have English. Although, Violet Harper and Fred Bugg with two "G"s both speak the language flawlessly.
Harper: You know, you don't have to say "with two G's" every time. I mean, you can if you want, but it's optional.
Fred Bugg with two "G"s: [Stunned] Fred Bugg with two "G"s can just be Fred Bugg?
Harper: Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Fred Bugg: [sighs] Just being Fred Bugg is a great relief to Fred Bugg.
Harper: Cool, see you later.
Fred Bugg: Cool. Fred Bugg with optional two "G"s will see Harper Row later.
Harper: [chuckling] Lovin' those two.

[After cleansing Vic]
Silas: What did you do to him?
Halo: Wait for it. [Vic's cybernetics reboot, back to their red color, Halo offers Vic a hand up] I think I cleansed you.
Vic: Cleansed? Yeah, yeah. Somethin'...somethin' like that. I feel...I feel...I don't know. Less murderous? Maybe?
Halo: That's promising. Well, I think my work here is done. [Halo begins to glow indigo once more and turns to leave]
Silas: Victor.
Vic: Wait! C-Can you get this stuff off me?
Halo: I'd very much like to fix you, but I don't know how. Honestly, I'm not even sure how I did what I did.
Vic: But you healed me! I felt it!
Halo: My violet aura doesn't work that way. And if it was going to heal you, it would have.
Vic: [pleading] Just try!
Silas: Victor no! Those prosthetics are the only thing keeping you alive. They're alien in origin, made from something called a Father Box. I don't know exactly how it works, but together we, we can learn!
Vic: Yeah, you'd love that. I'd be your latest lab experiment.
Silas: It's not like that. This is the only way I could save you.
Vic: Save me? You turned me into a FREAK!
Silas: You are not a freak Victor!
Vic: Not a freak?! You think I can go back to school like this?! You think they'll let me catch a football with this thing?! [he holds up his arm as if to demonstrate] Do you have any idea what you've done to me?!
[Silas can't answer, the STAR Lab staff look on uncomfortably]
Halo: I'm a freak. But that's a good thing,
Vic: Wait, can I go with you?
Halo: I suppose so.
[Halo creates another Boom Tube which knocks Silas down]
Silas: Victor, please! You don't know anything about this girl! You're safer here with me!
Vic: But you're not. I need to leave before I do something that we both-
Silas: That's the Father Box talking. Not you son. The League...the League tried to warn me-
Vic: You just don't get it. The murder thing? That was your Father Box. But the anger, that's all mine. I don't want to be anywhere near you right now. Let's go.
Silas: Victor wait! [he chases after them but the Boom Tube closes behind him, leaving him alone in his lab once more]

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Todd: Yup, still me. I think we're getting close to a decade that I've been doing this, LOL. Still honored and humbled to have the opportunity, even if it can be a bit of a headache at times.

I caught up about a week ago. Had to, what with the speed the Wise Man is tearing through the queue these days.

Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"There may be a place for me in this man's soul. Not because of what I may receive, but for something of worth I may have for him." - Casca

Additionally a headcanon that I took a liking to due to it suggested by a fellow fan that I exchange PMs with...

Basically Luz sharing human culture with her Boiling Isles family and among them is The Room, which someone like Eda recognizes Tommy Wiseau as a demon banished from the Isles. Heck Marvel actually did a gag I believe in Spider-Man/Deadpool revealing he is an alien pursued by the Guardians of the Galaxy.


Sorry for the double post, but I noticed that all the unanswered questions in the "Ask Greg" queue have been officially approved. Thanks, whoever was in charge of that (Masterdramon, right? I can't recall for certain at the moment, I'm afraid).
Todd Jensen

I noticed that Hooty also included Cthulhu on the demons list. (Not the first time Disney's done Lovecraftian allusions, of course; Bill Cypher and his gang in "Gravity Falls" definitely struck me as Great Old Ones.)

I also recently discovered an amusing AU comic/fanfic for "The Owl House"; here Luz is a young rebel witch from the Boiling Isles who stumbles into our world and meets human versions of the cast (that is, they're all humans here except for King, who's a cat) - and there's a really great encounter with a giraffe that harks back to the mention in the first episode of "The Owl House" about giraffes being really from the Boiling Isles, but they were exiled to Earth because they were too weird even for the Boiling Isles. You can find it here: https://moringmark.tumblr.com/tagged/witches-among-humans

Todd Jensen

Algae> That's what I'm hoping for as well.

Additionally Disney Channel added this to their official YT channel: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ2dWlEsGMo

Gave it a like myself. And according to several forum posters it was mislabeled Luzity.

As for a couple Easter Eggs:
1. Like that bit on Hooty's chart suggesting that King might be a Pocket Monster (i.e. Pokémon).

2. Also before Luz and Amity fall down the trap door, the shelf to the left of the latter has the Calamity Box.

And on that note, meant to post this sooner...
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPA7ZdndTI

Amphibia panel with a clip from the premiere of Season 3, a preview of The Ghost and Molly McGee and from 22:34-34:36 is a table read of a short story crossing over Amphibia and The Owl House. Seems like it oddly takes place during Season 1 of the former and Season 2 of the latter. Specifically between "Through the Looking Glass Ruins" and "Knock, Knock, Knockin' on Hooty's Door".


ANTIYONDER> The thought of Hooty giving The Talk makes me want to take an oath of celibacy.

But yes, good to see Owl House getting some much deserved love. And I certainly can't see Disney objecting to a hypothetical Gargoyles revival being more upfront about say... Lex's orientation in a post-Lumity world.

You're okay, you're alright. I'll never, ever leave your side. I will stay, I will fight with you.

While it's not Gargoyles, Owl House is at least trending on Plus: https://mobile.twitter.com/DisneyAPromos/status/1422985688555864065

Also regarding Hooty, while it wouldn't likely be allowed to be so direct on the show I could almost imagine Eda employing him to give Luz and Amity the talk if she felt things getting out of control between them in the future.:-D

Yeah I'm basing that off his little classroom session with King in the episode.

Plus her enrolling Luz in Hexside was due to Hooty's comment "All I know is, you taught me and I turned out just fine."


Thanks Todd.

Now I know that the showrunners and the marketing department aren't usually connected, I probably should've clarified that point.
As for Violet? I don't think she was joking. Not that she doesn't recognize humor, but the matter-of-fact way she states "ice cream" makes me think she really couldn't think of anything else and just settled on that.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

I want to know why they're showing up now, like a year and a half later...

I think Greg and Brandon have said a few times they don't control what the promo posters are? That sort of bait-and-switch doesn't really seem like their style, anyways. So I think it probably was just someone on marketing, going by the comic Outsiders lineup.

The little conversation Cassandra has with Slade is interesting to me, though mostly in a 'how's this going to pay off later' sense. Zehra Fazal, as always, does a great job distinguishing her character voices, and I love the tightness in her delivery of 'I have - observed that.' Makes me wonder if she returned to the Shadows as a way to get a little distance from the Warworld and Vandal, without admitting to anyone (even herself) that it wasn't just a matter of practicality and honing her skills for the grand plan.

I feel for Jade, really. I have a fondness for characters who feel like they're bad people, and think they'll never be able to change, even when the people around them see them changing drastically. It's a really interesting arc to go with, and I'm pretty curious to see how Jade goes in s4.

...I think Violet suggested 'Icecream' as a joke on how she couldn't think of a good last name. I think.

Karrin Blue

Why is Beast Boy the focus of the "trivia-obsessed" questions?
Todd Jensen

Hi, Mr Greg. when did Garfield get his first facil hair?

Thanks for the latest review, Matthew.
Todd Jensen

And we're back at the jungle.

Watched "Exceptional Human Beings" today, which offers a rare episode where the young heroes aren't at the center of the story. A nice detail to have the main characters of the episode be some of the founding members of the Outsiders initial team, Metamorpho, Katana and Batman. Looking back, it is funny that promotional images tended to focus on the first two considering this is the only episode thus far where the two of them have any sort of focus. I sometimes wonder if that was done on purpose as a bait and switch, or whether it was some other group that was in charge of promoting the new season and the chose them for the poster art because it was assumed they would be main characters like it was in the comics.

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind a few more episodes like this where other characters that wouldn't necessarily be in the spotlight get a bit of focus and some of the action. Especially since the show itself was all about showing off younger heroes that don't get the media attention that their older counterparts usually do. The little inferences made this episode make me want to know more about some of these heroes like Katana and Metamorpho. Whether Katana's past is similar that of the comics and whether her attitude towards killing is the same. And just what is it like for Metamorpho to be in near constant pain. In any case, they have a great showing this episode. I went through the archives to look at some of our initial reactions when the episodes first premiered, one thing that caught my attention was that I had it in mind that Metamorpho's part was originally conceived with Plastic Man in mind. While his powers certainly allow him to shapeshift into other objects, that's usually more Platic Man's schtick as is being a chatterbox as Oracle has to remind him that it's a silent op. But once more I have to bring up the unintended theme of the season, that even established heroes have something new to learn. Because while Katana and Metamorpho are able to match Lady Shiva and Deathstroke pretty well, Batman spends the his fight with Bane getting trounced. Bane learned to kick his Venom habit and focus strictly on fighting abilities, we'll have to see if Batman's capable or willing to learn new tricks.

We get another case of "Your Princess is in another castle" as we check in on the Tara subplot as it's discovered that she's no longer in the League of Shadows anymore. And on other side of things we have the growing conflict between Brion and Dick; this an interesting dynamic because while it's shown that Brion does enjoy his time with Violet and Forager it's clear that he's getting frustrated by the lack of progress when it comes to their time on the field and what information is being shared. I'll go over this next episode when we cover the timeline of this subplot but for now I'll just bring up Nightwing's closing line at the end of their little argument about Brion either trusting him or not. What did he think was going to happen if Brion stated that he didn't trust him?

And finally we see the conclusion of Jade's arc, for now. By this point Jade is pretty much convinced that her family is better off without her, and I'd say it's a fair assessment that she believes that she's too far into the criminal life to have a normal one. This contrasts pretty well with her parents, Paula who got out of the life after the loss of her legs and felt extreme guilt not only for what she did but for missing out on her daughters' lives. And Lawrence who tried to have the criminal life and the normal one (with loosest definition of "normal") and didn't seem to broken up at losing the normal part of it. Jade on the other hand sees herself as unwilling to change and for the good of her husband and daughter, shouldn't be part of their lives, and unlike her father, it's breaking her up plenty. The funny thing is that Jade has certainly changed for the better, in season 1 she's an unrepentant assassin who has no problem nearly drowning Wally and making comments about killing Dr. Roquette for fun. In season 2 she used up all of her favors (and probably a fair amount of money) to help Will find closure and even attempted her hand at being a mother. In season 3 she's gone from assassin to thief who could've killed that security guard at STAR Labs but chose not to, looks after the welfare of her team and even defies the heroes' expectations and frees Shade without any incentive. We don't know yet if we've seen the last of Cheshire, but it would be nice for Jade to reflect on her own growth.

Sone Final Thoughts: We get our first look at Vic Stone this episode, interesting that we actually saw his father first, considering how small a role Silas usually has with his son's life. The episode shows off their dysfunctional relationship quite well, Silas not even looking at his phone when his son calls and continuing to work to the point of cutting their call short. Then stopping everything to answer a video call from Steel and engaging with him while dismissing the latter's concerns with the Father Box. We'll see where both dismissals leave him next episode. I also like that Vic's high school, Heywood High, gives a neat shoutout to the Heywood super hero family.

We also check up with Cassandra again, it actually doesn't surprise me to see her training with the Shadows. Vandal seems like the type to make sure his progeny are specially trained, and the type to not allow special favors for them either. And then there's the upcoming point about Artemis enrolling Violet in high school, this is something I'll cover further next episode but I do have to wonder about from the perspective of what the characters know of this episode. That maybe enrolling an amnesiac, foreign girl with a strong dissociative sense of self (and thinks "ice cream" is perfectly acceptable surname) into your everyday high school might just be case of diving straight in before learning how to swim.

Acting MVP: If the last episode didn't convince you of Gwendoline Yeo as Lady Shiva, this one certainly will. I especially like her line about teaching her students the importance of the "No Mind" in combat. And Fred Tatasciore as Deathstroke and Metamorpho, he's been typecast as big, hulking monsters like Bane, Solomon Grundy and the Hulk for so long it's easy to forget his versatility. Then there's the bit between Crispin Freeman and Kelly Hu. Downright heartbreaking.

DC Profiles: John Henry Irons aka Steel started off following the famous "The Death of Superman" storyline. After Superman's apparent demise at the hands of Doomsday, several other characters stepped up to fill his spot, Steel was one of them. A brilliant engineer who took to arms design and manufacturing to support his family. After seeing the end results, he later designed a special suit of armor to tackle crime and make up for past mistakes.

Metamorpho the Element Man was once noted adventurer Rex Mason. His relationship with Sapphire Stagg, the daughter of industrialist Simon Stagg, infuriated her father and sent him off to retrieve the Orb of Ra, also sending his henchman to kill him. Rex barely survived and thanks to the Orb was transformed into Metamorpho who can change his body into nearly every conceivable form of matter, liquid or gas.

Katana was born Tatsu Yamashiro, an average young Japanese woman whose husband and twin children were murdered by her brother-in-law, killing her husband with the sword Soultaker. She managed to take the blade from him and then spent the next few years killing him and his Yakuza associates before coming to the States and joining the Outsiders.

Favorite Lines:

[Metamorpho passes by two Shadows in gaseous form]
Shadow 1: [sniffs] Oh man. Warn me next time, all right?
Shadow 2: What are you talking about? [sniffs] Oh no, not me, I swear!
Shadow 1: Ugh, talk about silent but deadly.
Shadow 2: Not me!

M'gann: Conner? You up?
Conner: Yeah. Yeah I'm up. You getting ready for work?
M'gann: No appointments today. What about you?
Conner: Nothin' Every bike in Rhode Island is runnin' smooth. How about I get dressed and we do somethin'?
M'gann: I like the sound of that. What are you gonna wear?
Conner: Uh, the usual. Why? What are you wearin'?
M'gann: Right now? My engagement ring.
[Conner considers this, then practically leaps to join M'gann in the bathroom]

Lady Shiva: Be mindful of your strikes. It is the fool who thinks anger will help in battle. There's power to be drawn from grace, from serenity. Be at peace with your weapon, feel it extend your reach. Let it become an extension of your arm, an extension of yourself.

Forager: (holding two hands up) Hive five!
Halo: I believe two hands make for hive ten. Except you only have four fingers on each hand, so, perhaps it's a hive eight.
Nightwing: It's a high... (chuckles) Not hive.
Forager: Either way, Forager believes Geo-Force has left Forager hanging.

Deathstroke: And have you been settling back in my dear?
Cassandra: Yes sir, I'm glad to again be amongst Shadows. Although I couldn't help noticing the empty bunk in my dormitory. If I might ask, what happened to Markov?
Deathstroke: Markov? She washed out, but perhaps Granny can find some use for her.
Cassandra: Pity. I rather liked her.
Deathstroke: In this life, Cassandra, it pays not to get too attached to anyone.
Cassandra: Yes sir, I have...observed that.

Bane: Buenos noches Batman. I've been expecting you. No one gets on or off Santa Prisca without Bane knowing.
Batman: Except the Cult of the Kobra, Aqualad, Robin, Kid Flash, Rocket, Zatanna...

Will: It's a lot warmer inside.
Jade: Well, Red, you haven't lost your touch. Or, maybe I've just lost mine.
Will: You haven't lost anything that truly matters. Come inside Jade.
Jade: Will-
Will : Come inside. Stay with us. Lian needs her mother. And I need you too.
Jade: No. You don't. Neither of you do. I couldn't cut it, remember? The Soccer Mom thing. Not for me.
Will: Lian doesn't even play soccer.
Jade: You know what I mean! Lian is better off without me. And you are, too.
[Jade holds her head down, trying to hide her face and Will brings it back up]
Will: No. You're wrong. I mean, look at you Jade. You're here, lurking. You wouldn't do that if you didn't-
Jade: [hurriedly] I came to say goodbye, in my own way, in my own mind. [She turns her back on Will] Face it Red. I'm not coming back. It's time you moved on.
[Jade walks away, a stream of tears falling from her eyes]

Deathstroke: Any preference?
Lady Shiva: Katana.
Deathstroke: As you wish.
[Lady Shiva and Katana step away and bow to each other, Shiva draws her dao and Katana draws Soultaker. The two pause before Shiva strikes. The two engage in lightning fast blows before their blades lock]
Lady Shiva: I'm the better swordswoman, but I'll admit your Soultaker is the superior blade. It will be mine.
[Katana smiles and draws her tanto before going on the offensive, Shiva flips away, creating distance, and the two pause. Both considering their next move. Elsewhere, Deathstroke dodges some blows from Metamorpho before shooting a salvo of bullets into Metamorpho from his machinegun, which does nothing as the bullets just pop out of him]
Deathstroke: Bulletproof. That's annoying.
Metamorpho: Tip of the iceberg, Strokey.
Deathstroke: Show me.
[Deathstroke draws his own katana and lunges at Metamorpho, who transforms into a gas. Deathstroke tosses an incendiary grenade into Metamorpho's gas form which explodes in a massive fireball causing Metamorpho to cry out in pain as he collapses to the ground in a larger, more misshapen form]
Deathstroke: Hurts, doesn't it?
[Deathstroke stabs at Metamorpho but the blade shatters against his skin]
Metamorpho: Sure. Sure it hurts. But you want to know a secret? I'm in near-constant pain. I've just learned to adapt.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Yeah - even at the current rate (14 completely done, 7 in post-production, 5 being animated overseas) I don't think the last 12 could be completed in four months. And, really, we're not going to get a trailer out of the blue - they're going to save it for either DC FanDome (most likely) orrrr maybe a Comic-Con, if they're going to have a YJ panel. On the upside, though, I think it's very likely we won't need a mid-season hiatus this time, and the trailer will be able to grab clips from far more episodes (though they'll probably be nearly impossible to figure out a plot from, as per usual.)

Either way, I don't remember hearing any rumors about an October release date, and definitely nothing through any of the crew or any announcements. Maybe you heard someone who mixed it up with FanDome's date?

I do have to agree Halo's deaths feel excessive. Both the number of them, and how violent they get, and how it's only her who gets harmed that way. There were a good few other times when I'd see some other character take a hit and walk it off, or just hold it like it hurt, and know that if it had been Halo there then it would've been a lot bloodier. You'd think after the first time or two, someone would've started having her costumes made with body armor... Well, hopefully we'll have seen the last of it, anyways.

Karrin Blue

I read on some website that it was supposed to be released in October. But since there wasn't any substantiating evidence or corroborating reports.

I figure our best option is a late December/early January release like last season.

When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

Isn't Phantoms coming out in October? Shouldn't a trailer be due next month? Or are they going to release a trailer right before the release?

I really love Deborah Strang as Gretchen Goode. I know Greg Weisman and Jaime Thomason are really loyal to the actors they use on shows, so I wasn't too surprised to hear her. It's a stark contrast from her role on Spider-man, but I was pleasantly surprised by her in the role and I think she's probably my favourite villain from the show overall.

I kinda wish if Tim Curry wasn't available they'd just gone in a new direction with Godfrey. I think it's hard to do a good Tim Curry impression without making it sound like caricature, Taylor's voice is too high to sound like Curry and the accent is really odd. Someone like Simon Templeman I think would have been able to really get that blend of hammy broad comedy and dark, sinister villain just right. Also his vocal pitch is similar and he's English. James Arnold Taylor isn't terrible or anything, just... it's disappointing I guess.

The tone of this season is nuts. Ocean Master plotting to murder children and civilians and then getting beheaded (on screen IIRC, I'm going from memory sorry). I think it's potentially a bit self-indulgent and maybe a bit extreme, but I think it's well done and not too crass and really sets up that anything can happen. I remember getting a real feeling of dread here.

I *love* David Sobolov. Ever since his days on Beast Wars. He's got a great bass-y voice and a real dry wit, and he's pretty much perfect as Lobo.

Still love, love, love this version of Nightwing. He's so effortlessly sexy. He's light and fairy-like, but also really serious and grounded. It hits all the right notes.

I remember some people commenting at the time that the number of times Halo gets horribly killed was a bit excessive, and I think that's true for me too. Just because she CAN die every episode doesn't mean... she should.

Gwendoline Yeo was a huge highlight as Shiva, I'd never really heard her in anything before, but she was *creepy*. Less keen on Tatasciore as Slade. But I don't think anyone will ever replace Ron Perlman in my head as that character. So I'm probably biased.

Alex (Aldrius)

And what would be the real point, when there's about ten people in the comment room most weeks anyways?
Karrin Blue

Just so you're aware, dropping racial slurs isn't going to magically turn this website into what you want.
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.

I'm serious. Get a motherfucking decent forum. Y'all niggas can't even delete shit.


The sixth was August, being rich arrayed
In garment all of gold down to the ground:
Yet rode he not, but led a lovely Maid
Forth by the lily hand, the which was crowned
With ears of corn, and full her hand was found;
That was the righteous Virgin, which of old
Lived here on earth, and plenty made abound;
But, after Wrong was loved and Justice sold,
She left th' unrighteous world and was to Heaven extolled.

Edmund Spenser, "The Faerie Queene"

Todd Jensen