Just wanted to add, to Alex, that I understood what you meant. Greg has a tendency to try to retroactively find rationales for stuff that was initially the result of animation realities. The "humility spell" is a big example. It's a perfectly legitimate opinion to feel that this kind of thing is unnecessary, or that some of the explanations feel over-wrought or just don't work for an individual fan. (I'm personally not that into the humility spell.) Just as it's equally a legitimate opinion to appreciate Greg's attempts to incorporate everything we see onscreen and create explanations.

Greg also has a tendency to alternate between "serious" answers and more flippant answers that are designed to amuse himself more than to inform (that's not meant as a condemnation...he's been extraordinarily generous with his time here over the years, so he's entitled to have some fun). The humility spell is again a good example of this...some answers about it are more serious, but his earlier responses were much sillier, talking about how the spell has the backing of all the Standards & Practices people in Ancient Rome or whatever. I agree with Bishansky that the "Magic of Animation" response vis a vis Demona's eyes in "High Noon" qualifies as a typical Greg "smartass" reply, not an admission that it was an error. He was asked how her eyes glowed, and he answered accurately (albeit in silly fashion).

morrand > The scene in question in "Kingdom" is at 13:20 on the DVD. Right before the gargoyles turn to stone. Talon walks by Hudson, walks by Bronx (who is supposed to be away on the World Tour), and then...walks up to Hudson and has a conversation with him, even though he had just previously passed by Hudson! Weird stuff. I would admittedly be very intrigued to hear Greg's retcon explaining that one. :)
Craig
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 7:21:59 pm EDT from 166.194.188.3

First, let me mention--or whine, really--that [SPOILER] my comic shop has apparently still not worked out how to use the mail. Consequently I haven't yet gotten "Manhattan" #12, and consequently I still want to dodge spoilers, and consequently I haven't been following the Room very closely. [/SPOILER] (That was not really a spoiler, but whining's not really conducive to good discourse.) Anyway, I am both crabby and ignorant (and especially ignorant of what Alex said originally since I'm not diving through the spoiler tags, sorry about that), a very bad combination for conversation, but here goes anyway.

I don't see that it is an error to discover something about the characters (or their situation, or whatever) that wasn't actually considered in the writing. Continuity, I would argue, is the law, and deviations from continuity require action within the story. Anything else, especially things that turn out not to be as the audience (or the author!) expects, is development.

To specifics, I can't claim that the mechanics of Puck's magic are something they taught us in school, unless it was in one of those General Ed classes I slept through, so I can't claim to know for sure how Demona's situation works. It'd be arrogant to claim it must have been a production error because the spell doesn't work like that, unless we have already been shown that it doesn't and nothing has happened to change that. So far as I know--and, ignorant, remember--that is not the case.

I do find it beautiful to think that she has the capacity for such dark moods as shade her soul enough to send her, just a bit, into her night form. I wouldn't want to lose that for the sake of being a know-it-all.

Craig > For the sake of charity toward a whiny, cranky, and ignorant Internet user with a somewhat benighted soul, as well as anyone else who might have been isolating from the fandom for way too long: which error is that?
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 6:54:04 pm EDT from 99.74.15.252

Quest preview
[SPOILER] In this particular instance, in the preview, I just took the glowing red eyes as the beginning of Demona's transformation. During the transfer process she's always part human and part gargoyle for a few seconds, so I didn't think anything of the glowing eyes manifesting themselves as the sun sets. [/SPOILER]

On the topic of errors, I was a bit surprised that the recent Voices from the Eyrie podcast on "Kingdom" didn't mention what is possibly the most famous animation error on the series.
Craig
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 5:05:55 pm EDT from 166.194.188.84

Alex > BINGO! That's exactly what he does.
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 3:29:00 pm EDT from 37.19.211.73

He's attributing it to the "Magic of Animation", but you're choosing to dismiss it because it's not literal. That's some insane copium.

Greg has been inconsistent and contradictory about things in the past. He has even admitted to having terrible memory. But your head is so far up his ass you can't see any faults.
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 3:27:47 pm EDT from 37.19.211.73

Okay, let me correct myself then:

SOMETIMES he spins straw into gold and tries to use a diegetic story point to explain a production error (and usually with like... "that was a mistake but maybe it was because of [story/character point] etc. etc. etc." my intention wasn't to imply he was lying or trying cover things up). I thought he had done that in this case, as I said, I couldn't remember and again, I wasn't trying to cast aspersions on Greg W or anyone else.
Alex
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 3:25:46 pm EDT from 70.48.44.204

Apologies, that last post was me.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 3:19:39 pm EDT from 67.189.200.184

ANONYMOUS> I don't see an admission to an animation error in there. It's a smartass response, but not an admission to an error.

We talked about this on "Voices from the Eyrie".

"I don't think that was an error, I think that was a conscious choice. The intensity of her anger is literally melting through Puck's spell. I don't think we saw that as an error, I think it was quite intentional."

If it was an error that he retconned, he'd have admitted it. He almost always does. At least in my experiences with reading Ask Greg, conventions, and podcasting for so long.
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 3:19:07 pm EDT from 67.189.200.184

That's not true. Greg has admitted to animation errors which later he retconned into being intentional.

Here's the most egregious example:
https://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1782
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 2:46:00 pm EDT from 37.19.211.23

Alex—No he doesn’t. Greg is always upfront about what is an animation error and what is intended. He’s never said anything that constitutes a “diegetic response”. Otherwise we wouldn’t know about half of the errors we do know about. Greg always cops to his perceived mistakes.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
Become a writer, you can be petty~~Roshni Chokshi
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 1:41:05 pm EDT from 174.243.55.134

Oh, weird. I had some vague memory of it being one of those things that I thought was an error, and Greg W likes to kind of justify those with some diegetic explanation rather than just going "oops" (which to be clear I don't think that's necessary -- animation is a complicated, expensive process and mistakes happen, but it's not a problem) but I couldn't remember the specifics.

[SPOILER] Oh, yeah I can believe that it took them a year to get back, it just gives me a giggle for some reason. The irony of it I suppose. [/SPOILER]
Alex
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 11:39:42 am EDT from 70.48.44.204

Alex> Greg W has said that Demona's eyes glowing red in "High Noon" was intentional. We don't know the exact circumstances in which this happens (they don't glow every time she's angry as a human), but it seems to be some quirk of the magic.

Also, [SPOILER] regarding Jade and Turquesa's long time gone, I assume, particularly if they couldn't use their pendents on Avalon, that moving and planting the samples took at lest a few days. Plus the dialogue seems to indicate that they've had a few adventures of their own before Avalon brought them here. It has been over a year since they left ChacIxChel, but on Avalon that's only about two weeks! [/SPOILER]
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 9:20:10 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

[SPOILER] I am so beyond excited for this. Demona's one of my favourite characters ever, and just the tone and content of this is super exciting.

For some reason it makes me laugh that the Mayan Gargoyles have just been on their own little world tour for a year. Like "oh yeah, we'll take a few plant clippings to Avalon to preserve them, that's a good idea." And then just not get home for such a long time. It's a cool little callback/detail.

Demona's so cool. Like, she operates at such a high level and it's neat to see a different angle to the environment/story here. Almost... sort of Young Justice-esque, with the way it's set up, it seems like MAYBE it's gonna be less like the World Tour (which was more of an anthology where we jumped from location to location) and more where this is a global story where we're more experience the story/characters rather than making it about the location. And maybe kind of a way to revisit what was cool about the World Tour without revisiting the elements people didn't enjoy quite as much.

That's sort of the vibe I'm getting anyway.

I also don't really miss the narration from Here in Manhattan, that jumped out at me. It was kinda fun but I think it actually kinda wound up slowing down the stories a bit. We're just going from story beat to story beat here really quickly and it's awesome. Way more efficient. I was kind of worried that a 6 issue (it's 6 right? I'm having trouble finding the length for some reason) run would be too short for the story they want to tell, but I think at this pace it'll work well.

The art is also superb. I really liked Kambadais's style and I think he made it work great, but this feels a LITTLE more classic, a little more like the animated series.

Also I assume the sun is setting and that's why Demona's eyes are glowing? She's kind of mid-transformation? Her eyes glowing as a human always seems weird to me. I'm sure Greg W hand waved some explanation at some point on Ask Greg, but it just doesn't... SEEM right. So I do hope it's kind of the jumping off point to some cool action sequence where Demona has to fight these guys while mid-transformation. [/SPOILER]

Also incidentally, I finally got around to posting the first of my short stories.

https://www.tumblr.com/divine-descent/747722751954059264/divine-descent-1-the-fox-hunt?source=share

It's meant to be sort of a mix between a buddy story road trip kind of thing meets a fantasy epic. I'm a little nervous posting this publicly because I haven't written too much in a long while, but I put a lot of work into it. So if anyone does want to check it out I'd appreciate it.
Alex
posted @ Sun, Apr 14, 2024 5:01:35 am EDT from 70.48.44.204

I discovered (thanks to Matt's post) [SPOILER] that I'd missed the last page of the preview, and am glad that I got to read it. It's confirmed the indications that Odin's spear Gugnir [sic] is one of the Three New Keys to Power (which, as I mentioned before, matches the Eye of Odin being one of the three original Keys to Power. It being broken in two feels like a Wagnerian allusion, though I don't know if that was intentional. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Apr 13, 2024 7:59:34 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

[SPOILER] I expected the Mayan Clan to be in Quest, since they're in the radio play it's partly based on. I'd like to see more of their Avalon adventures someday. I hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense the pendants can't be taken to Avalon, since they're mortal magic. [/SPOILER]
B
posted @ Sat, Apr 13, 2024 2:33:37 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Quest preview
[SPOILER] Matt > I too am intrigued by the origin of the skiffs. They just sort of pop up in “Avalon Part One.” Where did the Magus and Katharine find them? In particular, I’ve always been interested in the mysterious figurehead face (which seems to be gone on this newer incarnation). Greg has said that the figurehead is the same person/being that is carved onto the Weird Sisters’ scow, although they don’t look very similar to me. The face on the scow actually looks like Brother Valdez!
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Sat, Apr 13, 2024 11:13:04 am EDT from 166.194.188.126

Currently halfway through the latest Voices and I'm really enjoying all the talk about sound design. Not something that gets a lot of attention, as they've noted, but it is obviously a critical part of Gargoyles. One moment that always amazes me for the attention to detail is in "The Mirror". Hudson pulls a sheet off a clothesline to cover Titania's Mirror and a clothespin can be heard snapping off the line and clattering to the floor. Great stuff.

Now, about that preview, [SPOILER] I was one that did kind of expect the Mayan Clan to make an appearance in Quest. Or at least I hoped they would as they've long been my favorite clan. I did not expect them on Page One though! I'll admit I gasped when I saw them. This has been a long time coming, for sure, and I'm excited for what we'll see next.

A few interesting things: We get a time stamp. It's been a month since Here in Manhattan wrapped up. It has also been over a year since "The Green". Jade and Turquesa have been away from home twice as long as Goliath, Elisa, and Bronx were! Guess spending a few days and nights on Avalon planting those transplants cost them months of time. And it sounds like they've had a few Avalon adventures as well. Interestingly, Greg has redacted a bit of canon-in-training he revealed years ago: Jade and Turquesa were not allowed to take their pendants to Avalon. I guess they left them on the barge at the watery gates? Who even told them to leave them behind? Lots of questions here. The skiff also invites some questions. It looks different than the old ones. Where did those old ones come from anyway? And how many were there?

Finally, Demona. Love the glowing eyes in human form. Have not seen that in a while. And we have the first New Key revealed, though this is the one that was probably most expected. Still, feels like "here we go!" [/SPOILER]

So, yes, a great preview for a great start. Very exciting stuff. Also, I really like the art. Looks great. More to come in just a few days!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Sat, Apr 13, 2024 9:44:51 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

Greg B> Thank you for sharing this! I gotta say that just these teaser pages alone are getting me quite excited for Quest. [SPOILER] And I must repeat the sentiment, seeing the Mayan clan again is a real treat. My favorite part of the World Tour was getting to see other clans, and then getting justice in the comics is great! Even the ending of the preview with Demona's eyes glowing red feels like its own cliffhanger. [/SPOILER]

Todd> I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels the need for closed captions on film and tv these days. It's a shame too, seeing how far we've come in terms of our abilities to do sound mixing that weren't around in previous decades. It makes me wonder, what's causing so many bad audio mixes?
Kate
posted @ Sat, Apr 13, 2024 3:21:15 am EDT from 208.102.156.56

CRAIG - Yes, this is why I always watch television with the closed captions on (as was commented on in the podcast) - even though said closed captions aren't always accurate (I recall one episode of "Gargoyles" where the closed captioning called the Archmage "the Archmajor" - and one piece of inaccurate closed captioning is apparently responsible for the urban myth about Elisa swearing in the boathouse in "Awakening Part Four").
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 9:25:16 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

*CCH Pounder. Not CHH.
Craig
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 9:16:26 pm EDT from 166.194.188.126

One thing that struck me in the most recent podcast is Greg’s discussion of modern TV shows that obscure the dialogue. Since I’m currently rewatching Hill Street Blues, a favorite of Greg’s, I couldn’t help but be struck by the fact that Hill Street was noteworthy at the time for featuring a very dense soundscape, with overlapping dialogue in the style of Robert Altman films, and lots of ambient noise which rendered much of the dialogue difficult to hear. Granted, this was done strategically, with the “important” lines theoretically audible (although this can be debated, as to what is truly important).

I also arrived at CHH Pounder’s first appearance on Hill Street, a minor role as a prostitute—one of her earliest screen roles. She will return a couple more times as different characters over the course of the show.
Craig
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 9:09:44 pm EDT from 166.194.188.126

Thanks for the link, Bishansky. I certainly hadn't expected [SPOILER] the Mayan gargoyles to be in this story - and that collection of artifacts (particularly the Viking longship hanging from the ceiling) was truly spectacular. [/SPOILER] I'm looking forward to this story.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 7:48:29 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Wow, awesome preview. This is clearly going to be a truly epic storyline. And once again, Dynamite and Nate Cosby show their infallible ability to pair awesome artists with this property. Everyone looks amazing! Can’t wait for this.
Craig
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 7:00:22 pm EDT from 166.194.188.126

Just dropping this here...

https://icv2.com/articles/previews/view/56695/preview-gargoyles-quest-1?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This is going to be good!
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 6:44:10 pm EDT from 67.189.200.184

Hudson taking Cagney in (while admitting that it's not the same as having Bronx back) reminded me of the Fleecs cover to #6 of "Here in Manhattan" (the one with a couple of cats snuggling up next to Hudson in his recliner). which led to my looking again at the Fleecs covers of my copies of "Here in Manhattan" (I'd specifically chosen those when ordering them). It was the one cover of the first eight (the ones featuring the individual gargoyles) that had a gargoyle interacting with cats rather than dogs.

Fleecs, by the way, has done a comic series called "Stray Dogs" (I believe) about a group of dogs who discover that the human they're living with is actually a serial killer who'd murdered their humans and then taken them home; the dogs themselves have very "classic Disney animation" designs, straight out of "Lady and the Tramp", giving it a definitely incongruous tone. And he's just come out with another one called "Feral" about three indoor cats suddenly stuck outdoors in the middle of a serious rabies epidemic (designed to feel like the animal world version of a zombie apocalypse). (The dogs and cats in his "Gargoyles" covers are much more fortunate - apart from the cat whom Bronx and his new canine friends were chasing on the cover of #1.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 9:40:42 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

CRAIG> Yeah, I did it too and corrected myself. Cagney is a male cat, we both misspoke.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Fri, Apr 12, 2024 7:32:34 am EDT from 67.189.200.184

Todd > As a cat lover, I definitely remember being anxious about Cagney when the World Tour episodes first aired, and was very relieved to see his fate finally addressed. (And I immediately sensed that "Kingdom" must have aired out of order, given how many World Tour adventures had occurred before this episode aired.)

Although, in the podcast, Greg refers to Cagney with female pronouns. I'm pretty sure Cagney was referred to as male on the show.
Craig
posted @ Thu, Apr 11, 2024 10:46:59 pm EDT from 166.194.188.75

"Voices from the Eyrie" just released a new episode, on "Kingdom". I'm delighted to report that they discussed (alongside the obvious elements such as Brooklyn's character development, that of the Mutates, and the confrontation with Xanatos - with embarrassingly incompetent cannons, but some great Xanatos lines to make up for it) one of my favorite moments of that story: the trio and Hudson bringing Cagney into the clock tower and looking after him during the Avalon World Tour. As a long-time cat-lover, I'm glad that they addressed what happened to Cagney (and that Elisa didn't return to find that he'd starved to death while she was away).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Apr 11, 2024 9:19:24 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

I'm not surprised, Boom!'s line of Power Rangers comics in the past few years have been fairly mature and would have a similar audience.
B
posted @ Thu, Apr 11, 2024 8:25:38 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Sorry for the double post, but I just made a bizarre discovery. The Amazon.com page for "Here in Manhattan Volume One" states that it's frequently bought alongside a couple of "Power Rangers" comics/graphic novels. To quote Vinnie, "Can you believe it?"
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Apr 11, 2024 6:50:31 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

ED - Thanks for your review of the trade. I've just ordered my copy, from Dynamite (I was originally going to do so from Barnes and Noble, where I order most books, but they were temporarily out of stock). I hope there won't be any delayed delivery issues.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Apr 10, 2024 8:11:00 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Ed > This is the first mention I've seen of someone receiving the trade, so that's great news! Even better to hear that there are "bonus features," as I really wasn't expecting any, and don't recall seeing any advertised. Very exciting.

My copy still hasn't shipped. I'm not sure how the autographed copies work...whether Greg has to go somewhere to sign them, or they're shipped to him to sign, or what...but I hope to have it in my hands soon.

All I can really add to what you said is that it's kind of shocking that publishers still haven't found a way to make double-page spreads work in these collections. I mean, TPBs have been a thing since the 1980s, at least. In 40 years, no one has bothered to try to figure out a metric to shift the artwork a little bit so that it can fit on the page and not be lost to the margin? Very frustrating, and something that annoys me to no end about many otherwise excellent collections.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Apr 10, 2024 4:54:49 pm EDT from 166.194.188.52

Really pleased with my copy of the first trade. It's a lovely edition - I like the matte cover, it's well designed and I'm glad "1" is on the corner which hopefully will make Quest 3. I'm still a bit perplexed at the lack of any "part one" after "Here in Manhattan". Surely the second half won't have a different title? It's all a bit weird. I also kind of wish they'd just gone the whole hog and published all 12 in one volume at this point.

Greg's intro is great. He's got such a distinctive voice and writing style and this is a very polished version of the comic's extensive origin story while elegantly explaining why the Marvel books and TGC aren't canon.

The comic looks great and it's lovely to get a full-size trade but all those double page spreads don't read well in a big edition as so much of the art is lost in the folds meaning you have to bend the spine to see. I like double-page spreads generally but it feels like they're being used a lot more recently - not sure if it's my imagination, a Dynamite mandate or just using George Kambadais' superb skill set to good effect. Still, I guess most time I'll be reading the issues electronically.

The back-up material was great - very much enjoyed the glimpse into the scripting process. Feels like Greg had given George a separate run-down of the characters though as these are some bare-bones descriptions in places - shame, as that would have been interesting.

It's nice having the mega cover gallery.

As for the issues themselves, they were a good read but I don't have much to add. When the second trade is released, I'll look forward to reading them all through as one.

A few things random thoughts, all pertaining to the Dracons:

- In retrospect, it's clear that Dino's first comment about Anthony being weak was not, as Antoinette parried, about Tony.
- Antoinette's parallelism with Angela ("stop calling me Toni!") extends to the fact that she's a confidant of both Broadway and now Demona.
- If the thing Dino read was the same newspaper article from "High Noon", as it seems to be, that was one educational article.

Also, the respectful relationship between Wolf and Dino makes me think that Dino has a link to Sevarius... which means... well, I dread to think.

I can't keep track of the comic's release dates these days but I just noticed that, per Amazon, Quest starts next week and they're currently scheduled to have five issues in four months. That feels almost too good to be true after recent months but since it was started so long ago hopefully they can get the schedule on track again.
Ed
posted @ Wed, Apr 10, 2024 4:32:34 pm EDT from 195.110.171.60

CRAIG - Thanks for your review. The local library got a copy of one of the earlier books in the "Disney Adventures" series (which I checked out and read); I'm hoping that it'll do the same with this one.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Apr 10, 2024 9:17:08 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

For anyone who's interested, I received the latest 'Disney Afternoon Adventures' hardcover from Fantagraphics, the fourth volume to date. This one has the Gummi Bears on the cover (although the cover drawing they chose is unfortunately pretty crummy looking). The book has four Gummi Bears stories, none of which has previously been published in the U.S., although three of them are adaptations of TV episodes from the first season of the show. The adaptations of "A New Beginning" (the pilot) and "Can I Keep Him?" both have some unusually dynamic artwork from the Jaime Diaz Studio in Argentina. Their work on the Disney comics was often functional but somewhat bland, but on these two early Gummi stories, the poses and facial expressions are very fun to look at.

There is also a long Rescue Rangers story from France which was new to me, entitled "The Legend of Silverhorn." The story is by the same writer and artist team who created the lead Rescue Rangers story in the prior volume ("The Count Roquefort Case"), and the two stories have several superficial similarities: both begin with the Rangers in evening clothes going to a formal event, both feature an extended flashback revealing centuries-old backstory/history, both feature a family connection that pulls the Rangers into the adventure (Monty's aunt in "Roquefort," a friend of Gadget's dad in "Silverhorn"), and...Zipper is absent from both stories for some unexplained reason! I quite like the story in this volume, which involves a Flying Dutchman-style myth, and features some good moody artwork and coloring (lots of ocean and fog...I'm a sucker for that kinda stuff). And Gadget, my favorite character, gets some good moments.

There are two Darkwing Duck stories from Disney Adventures which I remember from back in the day, and both are solid efforts. One is the third and final story featuring Fluffy the adorable supervillain cat (the other two Fluffy stories appeared in the prior volume), with very expressive and entertaining artwork from the late David Schwartz (Gargoyles character designer and concept artist extraordinaire). The other story, a Launchpad vehicle, features some nice loose cartoony artwork from John Blair Moore. There is also a one-page Darkwing Duck gag with equally loose cartoony art from Neal Sternecky (I've always been a fan of his, since he drew the revival of Walt Kelly's 'Pogo' comic strip in the late 1980s and early 1990s). That one-pager, "The Toaster," is actually the final Darkwing comic that ever appeared in Disney Adventures.

There's also a very fun TaleSpin comic (which I remember from the short-lived monthly TaleSpin series in 1991, from Disney Comics) where Baloo is pressed into service by Trader Moe's goons, to good comic effect, to help them find their boss (who unbeknownst to them is doing his best to hide from the morons). Another TaleSpin story for the international market, which I'd never seen before, centers on Louie (my favorite character), but unfortunately is pretty uneven in terms of both story and art.

A Danish DuckTales story, "The Arcadian Urn," is interesting, as Donald is part of the adventure, making it feel a bit like a hybrid of DuckTales and the more classic Carl Barks formula. In particular, Donald and Launchpad interact quite a bit, something you don't get to see too often. The translators (who are also the editors of this volume) go a bit overboard with references, referencing everything from Megavolt and Fethry Duck, to Voltron and Cloverfield. (I did appreciate a reference to Super Snooper, the superhero comic the nephews read in the works of Carl Barks and Don Rosa.)

Lastly, there are a few one-page gag comics: two for Goof Troop, and one Bonkers. All from Disney Adventures, and all rather lame, IMO. But overall, an enjoyable, nostalgic volume, with some solid artwork.

As an aside, for those who are interested in this sort of thing, the volume features a disclaimer about racial stereotypes, as well as smoking and gunplay. The smoking reference is easy...for some reason Fat Cat is continuously puffing on a cigar! (That's how you can tell a Disney comic was created by the French, I guess.) The gunplay I'm not really sure about, but one Darkwing story prominently features a bazooka...albeit one that exclusively fires pies (a la Vinnie). The racial stereotype one really has me stumped. I wonder if they're just putting these disclaimers on all stories of a certain age at this point just as a blanket rule.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Apr 10, 2024 1:08:01 am EDT from 166.194.188.7

****A small, rectangular hole in reality (think the size of a smartphone screen) manifests in midair.  Blaise's face (or at least the portion of it that can be visible through the hole) peeks through.****
Hi all!  Just some responses, and an odd question.

B> "I think "hates" is too strong a word for Hyppolyta's feelings about Goliath."
That was just hyperbole on my part, but...well, we've seen her put him down twice (once overtly to Angel, and once covertly to his face), and before the second time she was looking in his direction with angry glowing eyes ("The Promise").  Granted, Angel, Othello and Desdemona were in that area, too, but something tells me it's Goliath that raises her ire.  Given all that, I don't think she's his biggest fan.

"At this point, Iago's attempt to break up Othello and Desdemona so that he could seduce Desdemona is twenty-two years in the future; they're probably close."
He's also staring at them with angry glowing eyes in "The Promise".  He is *not* happy about them being together.  Brother he may be, and comrade in arms, even maybe acting friendly now, but given what he will do in the future, even if it is 22 years from now, I cannot call him their friend, now or ever.
Regardless, my point in both cases was that, for characters we have only ever seen be antagonistic to each other, it always fascinates me whenever they fight on the same side.

"I don't think it was a literal curse, or that Mentor interpreted it as such."
I'm just saying when Mentor gets almost the exact same injury/scar as Wyvern from the exact same source(erer) 13 years later...it can make someone start to wonder.

"Iago is sitting very near Othello and Desdemona as well."
Well, he's sitting very near Desdemona, yes....

"Your mention of "a certain red-head we know" made me imagine a timeline where, after being scarred by Demona, Gillecomgain, instead of developing a vendetta against gargoyles, developed a vendetta against redheads."
Wow, that *would* be different.  For one thing, that would have put Bodhe and Grouch on the hit list. :-D

"Note that Broadway asked Lex to be his second as well as Brooklyn."
Yeah, he had already pretty much done that back in "Underwater".  "Cold Comfort" may have had the "official" ask, but Broadway and Lex's tension was resolved already and bringing it up in the wall of text that was my ramble felt needlessly redundant.  Brooklyn was the one Broadway had still been hesitating on, which was happily resolved here, and that was my focus.

"It was Dominic who asked if it was the Fourth of July, not Dino."
Yes, I know.  And I had meant Dominic.  Unfortunately, with two D. Dracons in this issue, I got their names mixed up a number of times, usually defaulting towards "Dino" because it's shorter.  I manged to catch and correct most in my proofreading, but that one got away from me.


"GARGOYLES" IN OTHER LANGUAGES>  So a bit of a random question, but has anyone taken advantage of the various language tracks on Disney+ to hear any of the foreign language dubs of "Gargoyles"?  I've made my way through the two Spanish language tracks (one of them was specifically Latin American) and it was interesting to hear the characters with different voices than I am used to and see where the dubbers may have made different acting choices.  Unfortunately, I'm not well-versed in any languages but my own, so I missed out on any nuance there.  Still, I'm fairly certain that the Latin American Spanish dub tried to give Brooklyn a catchphrase (or does "Shooby Dooby" have some meaning I don't know about?).

Later!
****The little rectangular hole in reality blinks out, taking Blaise with it.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Tue, Apr 9, 2024 9:19:14 pm EDT from 173.205.178.53

B> "It's usually not the whole clan that are rookery parents to the next generation, it's the generation/s that produced the eggs. Brooklyn is older than Broadway, Lexington and Angela now, but still feels that he's part of their generation and not Goliath and the Coldtrio's."

That isn't strictly established. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary. Goliath said multiple times that Angela (and gargoyle rooklings in general) should look upon the WHOLE clan as their parents, not just their biological parents and not even just the ones who produced eggs. I think Brook and Katana were just reinforcing that Egwardo, unlike Gnash, would have all of them as parents. I think if Coldfire or Goliath or whatever acted as a parent to Egwardo, Brook and Katana would view that as normal as well. The point is that Egwardo's situation is abnormal. Not only for how/when it was produced, but that it is the only egg in the rookery and with biological parents known with certainty. So, I think Brook and Katana were just going for clarity, and, in a way, establishing themselves as members of the clan again, not just traveling gargoyles with their egg.

And I do agree that Brook still views Angela (and especially) Broadway and Lex as his generation. But note that in no way would he see Coldstone, Coldfire, or Goliath as peers. Biologically, he's a generation older than them!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Tue, Apr 9, 2024 8:49:13 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

Todd> There's a saying I like when describing parts of American history, "America doesn't have nobility, but it does have dynasties." Now this easily applies to old American families in the fields of politics, industry or arts just as easily at it applies to major crime families.
What I find fascinating is that the early origins of major criminal syndicates are similar to the origins of America's earlier days as an independent nation, in that both were formed as a means of rebelling against the laws set forth by the nobility and a means of acquiring something that you couldn't get if you weren't born to the higher class.

Naturally the ownership of land (and how that could be taken away by the ruling class) is a long complicated piece of history that I won't get into at this time. It's no secret that many of America's earliest settlers came over to acquire land and property they couldn't in their old home, what I find fascinating is that the Sicilian Mafia's origins are also tied to land purchase. When Italy annexed Sicily during the 19th century the land barons who purchased the large swaths of land needed more protection from thieves and bandits than the local constabulary could cover. Thus it fell to locals to act as hired muscle or to negotiate the return of stolen property, and from this the Cosa Nostra was born.

Or take the Yakuza. It should be no surprise that feudal Japan was a pretty brutal era of its history, even after unification was achieved under the Tokugawa Shogunate the class system was as harsh as it was unfair with samurai able to treat or brutalize anyone they wanted to. The Tekiya (merchants) and Bokuto (gamblers) that founded the Yakuza were among the lowest of the social groups in Japan and many of them banded to together for mutual protection and to accumulate wealth through illegal means.

What I like about Gargoyles is that the series has demonstrated the different sorts of crime and their perpetrators and the similarities and differences. Take Xanatos, organizes the theft of valuable goods, destruction of property, endangering of lives and acts of sabotage meant to put a competitor out of business or at a severe disadvantage. But he gets a slap on the wrist while major members of the mob do the same (and at a smaller scope) and get hit with a much more severe punishment.

Reminds me of another saying, "A poor man steals and he's called a thief, a rich man steals and they call it shrewd business."
Matthew
Ain't nothing crazy 'bout me but my brain!
posted @ Tue, Apr 9, 2024 3:11:46 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

@Todd Jensen: Thank you! (yes, I figured I wouldn't bother with unwieldy spoiler text because it's past the two-week guideline we agreed on before IIRC)

@Craig: Oh, I didn't realize. It always seems to be a Matt thing when we see it. Which makes it a bit odd that he's in charge if they're both on it; I've always thought of him as Elisa's junior partner.
B
posted @ Tue, Apr 9, 2024 12:43:10 am EDT from 74.74.246.146

Oh, BTW, the notion of the Five Families wasn't an invention of Mario Puzo for The Godfather; there actually were five major Mafia families who carved up NYC and held an uneasy truce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Families

But I am assuming that Greg was thinking more about The Godfather than the actual history when choosing to evoke that terminology.
Craig
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 11:14:46 pm EDT from 24.46.162.31

Hope everyone enjoyed the eclipse! Things were pretty touch-and-go here with cloud cover, but we ended up getting a pretty good view.

B > It has indeed been established that Elisa is a member of the Gargoyles Task Force. This is first mentioned in "Invitation Only," and again when Margot cross-examines Elisa in "New Rules."

Todd > I'm pretty sure the kissing of the hand, like the Five Families, is a Godfather reference. The kissing of the hand/ring as a sign of tribute/respect is a repeating motif in the Godfather book/films. Although I have no doubt that Mario Puzo's inspiration has ties to the medieval tradition you're referencing, as well as the Catholic tradition of kissing the Pope's ring (coincidentally enough, called "the Ring of the Fisherman"--but this is a reference to St. Peter, with no obvious ties to the Fisher King, alas).
Craig
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 11:09:11 pm EDT from 24.46.162.31

Welcome back, B. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. (I was a bit surprised to see them outside of spoiler tags at first, but there's been enough time since the most recent issues came out that I suppose it's safe.)

Greg Bishansky's commented before that crime families are like an updated version of the feuding noble houses of medieval times (the kind you'd associate with Shakespeare's history plays, for example), and one detail in #12 reminded me of that. In one of the panels near the end, we see Dominic Dracon holding out his hand to Jack Dane, who's paying his respects; the poses in that scene felt almost identical to one of a medieval lord receiving homage from one of his followers.

The notion of Gillecomgain going after redheads amused me, since in the Middle Ages, redheads were believed to be dangerous and violent (Cain and Judas Iscariot were even depicted as redheads).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 8:27:53 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Matt, Todd> Oh yeah, the original figures are wild. They're charming in a weird way, though I'll forever be frustrated the original line was robbed of Thailog and especially Griff. We've gotten Thailog since, but a large part of me is worried I won't get to see the line touch upon the London clan.

B> On Goliath, yeah I think I judged his actions too harshly. You've got the right idea about Frankenstein, too.
Kate
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 1:13:14 pm EDT from 208.102.156.56

I haven't been here in a while, but I've read the March archives and have thoughts on some past commentary.

Dark Ages - Alliance #6
@Craig: Sucks that Verity was killed off so soon, but I'm glad she's not forgotten. Goliath must have been thinking of her in "M.I.A." as well.
* I wouldn't make any assumptions that Benvolio, Malvolio, Mack Kemp and General Bones aren't in the Illuminati, either then or now (yes, I will be in no way surprised if General Bones turns up alive in the present day).
* I'll be interested to know how things went sour between Malcolm and the Archmage.

@Matt: Dragons being "stone-flesh" like gargoyles also explains why they've left few identifiable remains.
* Yes, a poster of the final spread would be awesome.

@Todd Jensen: It's clear from their earlier conversation that Valdez hadn't met Peredur and Blanchefleur before and they were sizing each other up, and also that he was sneaking around behind them in the cave trying to be unnoticed by them (Peredur says "Wait" to Blanchefleur because he senses they're being watched), so following them to Carbonek would be how he gets involved with them.
Blanchefleur glowing because she's a Grail Maiden makes sense. One wonders how she became one.

@morrand: Benvolio and Malvolio (and Chomp and Chaw) appear to have simply been watching the fight.
* Peredur and Blanchefleur look more like teens in this issue than they did previously. The terrier at the fire is General Bones.

@Ftmb: Unless she took up a weapon and charged them, I think the chances the gargoyles killed a wetnurse are slim and none.

@Blaise: I think "hates" is too strong a word for Hyppolyta's feelings about Goliath. This scene is interesting because it shows they've fought together before, and for all that Hyppolyta doubts Goliath's leadership qualities, she knows he's a capable fighter.
* At this point, Iago's attempt to break up Othello and Desdemona so that he could seduce Desdemona is twenty-two years in the future; they're probably close.
* I had been hoping it would end with them convincing the dragon and the humans making a pledge to him.
* I don't think it was a literal curse, or that Mentor interpreted it as such.
* The image of Verity that Mentor sees in the stars makes me wonder about gargoyles beliefs re:the afterlife and the stars. Or if he actually saw a formation that reminded him of her.
* Iago is sitting very near Othello and Desdemona as well.
* Hopefully, there will be more of Dark Ages, not to mention the other spinoffs!

@Matthew: That was my impression of Wyvern's "treasure sense", too; that it only became un-ignorable after Excalibur was taken. On the topic of gargoyles not having material possessions, do they sow their own clothing? When and where did Demona get her tiara? And the gargoyles who wear armor?

@Alex: Yes, a troupe of players seems like an appropriate "humble" beginning for the Illuminati, and a good way of moving around to do their business.

Here in Manhattan #12
@Craig: Dino's mention of Castaway might have been setup for the Halloween story, which takes place after issue 12.
* Well, I think (hopefully) we can say goodbye to the Gargoyles Taskforce's original purpose and that instead of a taskforce to control gargoyles, it's a taskforce *with* gargoyles. BTW, you mentioned Elisa as a taskforce member, but so far she has not joined it that we've seen or heard.
* The characters behind Jack Dane, Huracán Sanchez and Choi Yingpei are their underlings Cenek Belinsky, Jayla Réal and Jimmy. The first two made their first appearances this issue.
* I still want Dino return as a dinosaur mutate.
* I was surprised Antoinette had a hidden agenda; I thought she was legitimately concerned for Tony and also didn't want mayhem to ensue. She and Tony are twins, after all, and he's been around her whole life.
* Yes, that's Commissioner Chavez at the podium.
* I think Antoinette was let into the castle because Xanatos and Owen found her reasons for coming to be valid. It's possible they know about Demona's involvement, but not necessarily.

@Matt: "Aim True, My New York City" would seem to me to mean hoping that the people of NYC will do the right thing, from the perspective of someone attached to the city. Greg Weisman has lived there, after all.
* It's usually not the whole clan that are rookery parents to the next generation, it's the generation/s that produced the eggs. Brooklyn is older than Broadway, Lexington and Angela now, but still feels that he's part of their generation and not Goliath and the Coldtrio's.
* It's possible that Quest will open with the commitment ceremony.
* That's not Gnash saying, "Oh, you gotta be kidding me," it's Dino in a dim light. You can see the collar of his suit.
* Dino was shot by Dominic.
* Coldstone is a fool not to realize that there is no world in which Demona fulfills her agenda and the clan is not harmed, and to think sneaking around behind his mate's back will ever be okay. Although he's right that the clan wouldn't and shouldn't have let Goliath rot if the hearing had gone the other way; but Goliath wanted to test if humans would listen to the better angels of their nature. I noticed that Coldstone and Hyppolyta in Dark Ages both question Goliath's fitness to lead because they think he's not tough enough.

@Kate, Greg Bishansky: I don't think Goliath was out of character. Sometimes he avoids difficult conversations, as he did with Angela in Season 2. And I think he underestimated how serious an issue it was for Coldstone.

@Phoenician: There doesn't seem to be a word for crashing in through a window; I Googled.
* BTW, it's interesting that NYC's organized crime scene has "Five Families" here, and so does Port Charles, New York in General Hospital, which I've been watching current and old episodes of recently. "Coffee importer" (read "mob boss") "Sonny" Corinthos (given name Michael Corinthos Jr.) is a major character who's usually portrayed sympathetically - compared to the other mob bosses, at least. I watched a scene from an episode from a few years ago where his son Michael Corinthos III was meeting with the rest of the Five Families on his behalf while Sonny was in hospital recovering from an assassination attempt. (Sonny adopted and raised Michael after marrying his mother Carly Spencer and threatening the biological father A.J. Quartermaine into signing away all parental rights by hanging A.J. from a meat hook in a factory and showing him a fake article about his death from drunk driving. Sonny and Michael usually get along well and it's portrayed as a happy adoption). The continuing of family names from one generation to the next ("Michael Corinthos", "Anthony Dracon") also reminds me somewhat.
*Edit: A Google search for another reason later inadvertently showed me there were Five Families in The Godfather. That's probably where both Gargoyles and General Hospital got it from. I already knew Sonny's given name of Michael and his nickname came from the Corleone brothers in that movie.

@Blaise: Your mention of "a certain red-head we know" made me imagine a timeline where, after being scarred by Demona, Gillecomgain, instead of developing a vendetta against gargoyles, developed a vendetta against redheads.
* Good point. It wouldn't take the cops much deduction to figure out who the real culprit behind bombing the police stations was if the Dracons are the only crime family not left headless.
* Note that Broadway asked Lex to be his second as well as Brooklyn.
* It was Dominic who asked if it was the Fourth of July, not Dino.
* I prefer the particle guns anyway. Cooler looking but less imitable. (That name reminds me of the Cloud of Darkness's characteristic "Particle Beam" attack from Final Fantasy III.)

@Matthew: Good summary.

@Todd Jensen: As others previously noted, Goliath's full badge number is the date of the Gargoyles series' world premiere in Florida.
* I wouldn't put in the quotation marks around "genuine", personally. Just because there are myths about someone, doesn't mean they didn't exist to inspire them in the first place. Arthur, for example, may or may not have been a real person.
* Your comment on Easter and gargoyles reminds me of how one of the Onteen (an egg-laying minor species) in the Babylon 5 episode "Believers" called a human "the descendant of egg-sucking mammaloids".
* Your note about the definition of gargoyles and grotesques reminds me that I looked up all the non-artifact Gargoyle creatures from Magic: The Gathering recently (in other words, the ones that should represent living creatures; there are more artifact creature Gargoyles representing automatons) to see how well they fit with Gargoyles gargoyles. One of them is even called a grotesque: https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3Agargoyle+-type%3Aartifact&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
* I know, but I wanted to be polite just on the off chance the likely bot was a person.

@Greg Bishansky: Having ridiculously wrong solicits does make for a good way to avoid spoilers.
* Perhaps not Dino, but it wouldn't be surprising if Dracon ancestors turned up in some appropriate setting in TimeDancer given that Greg Weisman likes putting Easter eggs in wherever possible.
* Given we've had ghosts before, it would make sense if they weren't the only ones.

@Kate: Although, technically, the Creature is *a* Frankenstein, if you view him as the son of Victor Frankenstein.
B
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 12:18:21 pm EDT from 74.74.246.146

Ha! No kidding. Those figures got wacky. And so many missed opportunities. Why make yet another Goliath when Thailog is just as easy. Why a Griffon Goliath when you could just make Griff?!

My hopes for NECA is that we continue to see a variety of characters. I want to see Griff and Zafiro for sure. Ultimately, it'd be great to get someone from the comics: Staghart would be awesome!

I'm a couple hours north of totality in St. Louis, so I'll be heading south in a few minutes. Looking forward to seeing the eclipse today!

I've been thinking about gargoyles and eclipses a lot lately since both are on my mind. Chatted with Bishansky and Phoenician about it yesterday. I don't think they'd wake from stone during totality, just as they don't for cloud cover or being underground. The sun isn't what turns them to stone exactly. That said, we've seen with gargoyle jet lag that their cycles are not "set in stone". Perhaps a solar eclipse could screw up their clocks enough that they could see the sun, albeit briefly. Or something like that.

Greg B made a cool point that lunar eclipses might be more significant for the gargoyles. And Phoenician mused that perhaps Demona would transform during a solar eclipse. Both very cool ideas.
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 9:29:15 am EDT from 47.233.90.133

At least this time they aren't doing improbable elemental-powered variants of the clan. :)

And happy "Eclipse Day", everyone! It's only going to be a partial eclipse here in Phoenix, but it'll still be a big event. (And might bring up again the line in the Gargoyles Series Bible about what effect solar eclipses have on gargoyle stone sleep.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 8:40:58 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

First.
The NECA Detective Broadway figure is hitting Target shelves now. He's pretty cool, though I wish they'd do less recolors and reissues with new accessories.
Kate
posted @ Mon, Apr 8, 2024 2:55:59 am EDT from 208.102.156.56