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Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (The new ramble...)

As promised, I'll now attempt to recreate the lost ramble on this episode, which I recently watched again with my family.

For those of you who haven't seen it, I refer you to my recently posted "Memo" on this episode dated back in April of 1994. One thing you might have noticed was that the title of the episode was "The Awakening". In the memo, I suggested what I thought was the more appropriate title "Reawakening". Michael liked that idea but had a suggestion that did it one better. He suggested renaming our pilot five-parter "Awakening". I jumped at the idea. At the time, the five-parter was simply titled "Gargoyles, Part One", "Gargoyles, Part Two", etc. I've never liked that sort of cop out where the pilot's title is simply the series' title. Among other things, it lacks imagination. And it's dishonest. By that standard, "The Journey"'s real title should have been "Gargoyles, Part Sixty-Six". So giving our pilot its own title seemed like a very good idea to me.

But there was another reason why I liked Michael's plan. We were working on our last episode of the first season. It was April of 1994, nearly a year before that episode would air. And a good six months before our premiere. There was no way of knowing whether or not there would ever be a SECOND season. And so to protect myself (emotionally) I had to operate on the assumption that their might not be. Obviously, I wasn't going to do anything apocalyptic. I wanted there to be a second season, so I wanted to leave the doorway open for it. So Michael, Frank, Brynne and I discussed the idea of open-ended closure. If there never was a second season, we'd go out with a bang. We'd give some small amount of closure to our characters. Let them reach a turning point. If this was to be it, we'd have created a little 13 episode novel that brought the Gargoyles from the past to the present and renewed (reawakened) their sense of purpose.

Nice. We'd done the open-ended closure thing (to a lesser degree) at the end of what would eventually be called "Awakening, Part Five" and we'd eventually do it again at the end of "Hunter's Moon, Part Three". And I'd do it for myself in my script for "The Journey".

But there are tricks to achieving a sense of closure. And one of the tricks is to create parallels with the episodes that launched your story.

So by retro-titling our pilot "Awakening" and naming our last ep "RE-Awakening" you can see how we gave ourselves a headstart.

But there were other parallels. The flashback to the past, (which we intentionally built so that it could theoretically be edited into the pilot if necessary) included the Magus at his most pre-Avalon obnoxious. Obviously, that flashback also intro'd pre-Coldstone, but it served the purpose of calling those first couple of flashback episodes clearly into the viewers' minds. (The only problem with that scene, is that Hudson has his sword in a couple of the shots. This is a mistake, as any good Garg fan knows that Hudson first acquired his sword in the battle with the Vikings that took place the following night.)

We also did the big event VILLAIN TEAM-UP thing, bringing Xanatos and Demona back together for the first time since "Awakening, Part Five". (I love the exquisite tension that plays between them. They are both SO using each other. When Demona tells Coldstone that X is her servant, you know that she's partly doing that to circumvent Coldstone's questions, but that she also partly believes that it's true.)

We also used Morgan in Times Square in a very similar way to how he was used in "Awakening, Part One" (reiterated in "Awakening, Part Two").

And then there's that moment near the end where Elisa asks Goliath if there's anything he needs. He answers "A Detective" verbally echoing a key moment from their first meeting in "Awakening, Part Three". That still tickles me.

HOMAGE

Obviously, Frank and I both worked overtime to pay homage to the classic Universal "FRANKENSTEIN" movie. I can say "pay homage" with a straight face (as opposed to rip off) because we so clearly acknowledged the source. Frank's art direction of the lab. X's line: "It's alive! Alive!" (Wonderfully undercut by Jonathan Frakes' reading of the follow-up "I've always wanted to say that.") And the whole idea behind Coldstone. (More on this when I eventually ramble on "Legion".)

Coldstone would be our Frankenstein's monster. Pieced together. Gargoyle & Machine. Reanimated (reawakened). I even love the Coldstone name. And wasn't Michael Dorn's sepulchral tones just perfect for the role?

And Goliath's reaction is so multi-faceted, so Dr. Frankenstein... [You know Goliath's response to his brother here, would be echoed later in his response to his "son" Thailog in "Double Jeopardy". Initially, Goliath's simply repulsed by what he sees, calling Coldstone "an abomination". But given a bit of time, Goliath quickly sees past appearances and attempts whole-heartedly to save his brother. He'll go through the same changes with Thailog. Well... at least we (and Goliath) were consistent.]

CONTINUITY

Snow. It started snowing in "Her Brother's Keeper" and now the city is blanketed in the stuff. (And doesn't Elisa look cute in her scarf and gloves.)

Brooklyn's still pissed off at Demona, specifically and sarcastically asking if she has anymore "spells to save you now". In fact, we wanted to make clear that the spell used to resurrect (reawaken) Coldstone was one of the spells she tore out of the Grimorum in "Temptation". Instead, we cheated a bit. By having her tell Xanatos that the "Cantrips have already been spoken" it saved us the trouble of getting another spell translated into Latin. We were either lazy or short on time or -- most likely -- both.

Following out of "The Edge", and until the helmet comes off at the bridge, the gargs assume that Xanatos in his armor is simply another Steel Clan Robot. The next upgrade. The red model. They have no idea it's actually Xanatos himself in armor.

Small observation: Mirrors don't fare too well in the Gargoyles Universe.

Emotionally, I think the story is very successful at taking the audience through Goliath's spiritual reawakening. I love how he starts out pensive and brooding, listening to that great exchange between the trio and Hudson, realizing that all of them have lost track of their true purpose. Hudson recites the Gargoyle credo merely as an excuse not to go out in the cold. (And I love Thom's reading on Lex's "We don't even live in a castle anymore" response.) The trio are clearly missing the point, but methodical thinker Goliath isn't sure he remembers what the point is either.

And that dovetails SO nicely with Elisa revealing the Police motto "Protect and Serve". The police motto/gargoyle credo connection is so perfect, it struck me even at the time as further proof that we were tapping into something very true in our little fictions. (And don't cops -- for better and sometimes for worse -- act just like a clan?)

From there, Goliath moves past the notion of simply being a reactive character, struggling only to SURVIVE one crisis after another. Now he will strive to be proactive. To rededicate (reawaken) the clan toward their original life purpose. Extending the term "castle" to Manhattan island was always our plan. Even that was intentionally primitive in our view. Goliath doesn't protect New York City. Not all five burroughs anyway. That's beyond his medieval scope at this still-early stage. He can get his head around protecting an island surrounded by water. Not the whole world. But eventually, the plan would include expanding the clan's definition until Castle Earth was the only thing that made sense. Of course, that might not have been fully realized until 2158. But we'd have gotten there. And the World Tour was part of that process too.

PROBLEMS
(Besides Hudson's sword...)

--One line in the ep. that for some reason still makes me cringe is Elisa's "My car's big." It just seems awkward to me. Not sure why.

X & D watch Coldstone's progress from the castle. Almost instantaneously they're at Times Square. We always knew we were just skating by on that.

Goliath & Coldstone go into the water at the bridge TWICE within the span of a couple of minutes or so. The first time, Goliath nearly drowns. The second time he's completely uneffected (physically) by the experience. We get away with it because the second time he's diving in on purpose. But just the fact that we had to dunk them both twice is an awkward construction (and my fault). At least, Goliath looks good with wet hair.

Some really graceful animation here. Goliath has some great moves, and I love that moment when Matt and especially Elisa are diving into the snow, out of the way of the car that Coldstone has just thrown... And speaking of that scene...

TIMES SQUARE SEQUENCE

There's some very interesting, fun stuff here besides what I've already mentioned about it above. A sampling:

Explosions in Bambi. :)

Demona's Clan: Herself, Coldstone, a Steel Clan Robot and Xanatos in Gargoyle Battle Armor. It's so twisted. I love it.

Goliath's very smart here. He doesn't want the fight to take place in public and basically convinces Xanatos to take his side on the issue by flattering him. Goliath refers to Manhattan as "your city" (i.e. Xanatos' city), this despite the obvious fact that Goliath does NOT regard Manhattan as Xanatos' personal property. And Xanatos, usually immune to such stuff, falls for it -- maybe BECAUSE it comes from the ultra-sincere Goliath.

I also am very fond of the Mr. Jaffe book-ends. I think they're a lot of fun. And I love how Matt talks about Mr. Jaffe. It gives us insight into Matt's character, his background, his youth. His empathy for Jaffe really helps humanize him. Matt was always eminently human.

Signing off now...

"Because six monsters just told me to..."


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Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (background rambling)

I'm trying something different with this ramble. And because of recent difficulties, I'm going to break the Ramble into two parts. My thoughts on reviewing the episode last Friday night will need to be recreated from scratch. And I'll get to that as soon as I can.

But first I thought you guys might appreciate a little background. What follows is a long memo that I wrote to Story Editor Michael Reaves after receiving the first draft of writer Brynne Chandler Reaves' outline on our thirteenth and final episode of the first season. Pay careful attention to the date of the memo and the title of the episode. I'll comment on both sometime in the next few days...

THE MEMO (unedited):

To: Michael Reaves Date: 4-10-94

From: Greg Weisman Ext: 7436

Re: Notes on "The Awakening" / Outline for 4319-013 of GARGOYLES

GENERAL NOTES
This is a tough one, because in this episode, we have a very specific mission, which is to remind Goliath of his. In order to accomplish this, I'd like to focus both our efforts and Goliath's soul-searching. These aren't simple concepts but I'm gonna try and go through them in baby steps. This is less for our benefit than for the benefit of our audience & Goliath. (Remember, Goliath is a determined thinker if not a quick one.)

Goliath spends the episode searching for the true meaning behind the gargoyle motto, "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."

We begin by defining our terms. Goliath first needs to understand the following equation: "Castle = Home = Family = Community". He more or less learned the Castle through Family section in "ENTER MACBETH", but we'll need to reiterate the lesson in some way for our audience. Then we need to take him the final step from Family to Community.

After that (or perhaps simultaneously), he needs to decide on what is meant by "protect". Protect what? The physical structure he lives in? No. Again, Home leads into Family which leads into Community.

Protect why? To survive in a hostile environment? Ultimately and by the end of the episode Goliath decides/remembers that to survive is not enough. Coldstone and Demona provide cautionary proof; both of them are abominations of a sort, created in the name of "Survival". Survival ("breathing the air") is important, but clearly survival isn't enough. Goliath and his clan need purpose. They need to return to the mission: Protect the castle (i.e. protect the community).

This dovetails nicely w/Elisa's mission as a cop: "To protect and serve." And leaves us, at the end of our first season, with a more pro-active group of heroes.

SPECIFIC NOTES
Just a few specifics that aren't covered in the beat outline that follows.

Page 1.
--The trio saw snow last episode. Let's make the winter weather the backdrop to the action. Not part of the story.
--I don't think we want to light any fires in the clock tower.

Page 2.
--We no longer need Madame Serena in this story. Plus she adds another new element to a pretty full plate.
--Remember this is one of the spells that Demona ripped from the Grimorum back in "Temptation".

Page 3.
--Coldstone wouldn't name himself. It's not gargoylean thing to do. And he hasn't been awake long enough to know he needs a name. Let Demona do it.

Page 7
--I think we can fit the action of this story into one night, so this is kind of a moot point, but I don't think Demona would risk sleeping as stone in Xanatos' castle. She doesn't trust anyone that much.
--Let's not overplay Matt's conspiracy fettish. It's o.k., but we don't want him to come off as a "babbling".

Page 11
--Remember, unless we're getting biblical here, Gargoyles weren't "created". They have very strong territorial and protective instincts. These instincts are as strong as their survival instinct. But I want to make sure we don't imply that they were magically created by someone or something who gave them a mission.

Finally, if I could recommend a title change... how about "Re-Awakening" instead of "The Awakening". I think it's a bit more appropriate all the way around.

ACT ONE
1. Prologue #1 - Present Day Manhattan - All-Nite Grocery - Winter Night
--It's snowing in Manhattan and will continue to snow until the last scene.
--A lone thief holds up the owner of a small and otherwise empty All-Nite grocery store.
--Thief tells the owner: "I guess we just live in dangerous times.

2. Prologue#2 - Flashback to 994 A.D. Scotland - Castle Wyvern - Night
(Note this scene happened off-camera during part one of the five-parter, somewhere around page 24 of script #4319-001.)
--Goliath informs Hudson that they must leave to harry the vikings far away.
--He'll need Hudson's tracking skills.
--Demona and "pre-Coldstone" gargoyle (Goliath's rookery brother) are also present.
--Magus comes thru and says or does something obnoxious.
--Demona, secretly desperate for Goliath to bring them all along, asks why they bother protecting the human's castle at all?
--Pre-Coldstone agrees: "Let them keep the castle, we can survive anywhere."
--(We see he is of a semi-simlar mind-set to Demona, which explains why she uses him 1000 years later for Coldstone.)
--Hudson firmly states the gargoyle mission statement: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..."
--Goliath instructs his rookery brother to stay w/Demona and protect.

3. Present Day - Winter - Clock Tower - Night
--Goliath's been daydreaming (at night) about old memories.
--Trio are going to a movie; they invite Hudson along.
--Hudson's a couch potato. He'll wait to see it on cable. Besides he's got to guard their home.
--Trio: We live over a police station. What could happen? We don't have to guard the place every night.
--Hudson tosses off gargoyle truism: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..." (But that's just an excuse to be left alone.)
--Goliath reacts silently, realizing their mission has lost meaning for the gargoyles, even Hudson. Maybe even himself.
--Trio leaves ("We don't even live in a castle anymore...")
--As Elisa enters.
--She wants to know how gargoyles are "surviving" the cold weather.
--G says they're fairly immune... to the elements.
--Elisa starts to leave for her shift w/offhand remark: "Time to do a little of the old 'Protect and Serve'."
--G stops her to find out what she means.
--Police motto.
--But what does it mean? Protect who?
--(Maybe Elisa can get us from Castle to Family here.)
--Goliath decides to accompany Elisa on the night shift.
--Which is a bit problematic now that she has a partner.

4. Castle
--Demona has talked a reluctant Xanatos into another attempt to destroy Goliath.
--Xanatos & Demona use science & sorcery to revive creature made from cybernetics and mismatched gargoyle parts. (The head is that of Goliath's rookery brother, our pre-Coldstone, augmented by cybernetic-eye & etc.)
--Demona names him Coldstone.
(--Perhaps she represents Xanatos as her servant. Perhaps he allows it.)
(--Note: in this episode, I think we want to sense a tension between X & D, but I don't think we want to bust them up here. It's distracting and we have enough to deal with.)
--Coldstone's confused. Last thing he remembers is Goliath & Hudson leaving the castle. Then came sunrise and oblivion.
--Demona: "Goliath abandoned us to the mercy of humans."
--He has been seduced by their beliefs.
--It is because of him that you look like this....
--It's mirror time.
--Does audience see him or do we save that revelation?

5. Manhattan Streets / All-Nite Grocery / Rooftop across the street.
--Elisa & Matt are driving in her car.
--Goliath is following them from above. (She's given him a walkie-talkie or headset or something. She's basically wearing a wire so that he can be on her shift with her.)
--They investigate All-Nite grocery store robbery from scene 1. (Not a crime in progress. Remember, they are detectives, not beat cops.)
--While Matt questions the owner...
--Goliath, watching from above, is able to talk quietly w/Elisa.
--We get from Family to Community.
--Elisa: No one wants to live a prisoner of their own castle anymore. We live in a community. The whole community needs to work together...
--G: "To survive." (He still hasn't gotten it yet.)
--Radio call: "All available units."

6. Times Square.
--That tortured soul, Coldstone, is going bonkers.
--(He hated "Cats". No, wait... he hates humans.)
--(Physical strength only. No robotic weaponry yet.)
--Morgan and other cops are just securing the perimeter, keeping people clear.
--From a distance, Goliath surmises another Xanatos robot ploy. (He sees the occasional metallic glint. The rest is in shadow.) He won't be dragged into another of Xanatos' schemes.
--Elisa & Matt don't have that luxury. They approach the thing. Tell it to cease and desist, etc.
--Coldstone prepares to throw a small car at them or something.
--As Goliath reacts, we fade out.

ACT TWO
7. Times Square.
--With Elisa endangered, Goliath doesn't hesitate to intervene and save her and a flabergasted Matt.
--Now Coldstone really goes ballistic. Literally. Barrel rises from robotic arm and fires.
--Goliath dodges or maybe he is hit, but Coldstone is too shocked to notice. --He didn't know he could do that.
--(Xanatos had a pre-programmed battle mode built-into his circuitry.)
--While C is figuring this out, Goliath comes in and smashes him.
--It's only in close that Goliath realizes he's not fighting a robot.
--(Is this the audience's first full look at Coldstone too??)
--And it's only now that Coldstone recognizes G.
--But all this convinces Coldstone that Demona was telling the truth.
--Goliath is attacking his own rookery brother to defend a human.
--But Goliath is out-matched, and soon losing.

8. Inside Orpheum Theatre (Times Square).
--Trio are watching movie from balcony.
--(As Broadway did in "Deadly Force").
-- "There sure are an awful lot of explosions in this movie."
--But are those explosions coming from outside?
--Suddenly movie stops. House lights come up.
--On ground level, Morgan is ushering people out the back entrance, calmly and for their own safety.
--Trio exit to see what's going on.

9. Times Square.
--Trio arrive in time to save Goliath from Coldstone.
--Coldstone surrounded by all four gargoyles.
--Looks like the tide of battle might have shifted.
--We see gargoyles thru Coldstone's robot POV.

10. Castle.
--Matchcut to Xanatos office monitor.
--Seems he gets a direct feed on whatever Coldstone sees or hears.
--X to D: Looks like sonny-boy's having trouble making friends.
--(No indication that they're going to help yet.)

11. Times Square.
--Goliath does not attack; he's still trying to put everything together.
--Could this abomination really be his rookery brother?
--At first, Goliath doesn't talk to Coldstone, rather he speaks about "it".
--Which of course doesn't endear him to Coldy one bit.
--G tries a kinder, gentler approach.
--Might even be starting to reach him.
--G: What happened to you, pal?
--From off-screen Demona says: "We did."
--Goliath, trio and Coldstone turn to see Demona, Xanatos in Gargoyle armor and a Steel Clan Robot. Fade to black.

ACT THREE
12. Times Square.
--Stand-off.
--Demona: If you're going to bring your whole clan, you can't expect me not to bring mine.
--G: You call that a clan?
--Coldstone is torn, confused. What should he do?
--Demona: "Destroy Goliath. Destroy him, and we survive."
--Coldstone looks down at his cobbled-together form: "Is this survival?"
--Demona tells him not to be fooled by appearance.
--Goliath and the others have been corrupted by humans.
--"We are the only real gargoyles left."
--Travis Marshall pulls up in newsvan.
--While cameraman is setting up, Elisa uses "wire" to warn Goliath.
--Goliath appeals to Xanatos
--(Probably doesn't yet know that Xanatos IS one of the robots.)
--(G thinks he's talking by radio-link via the robots.)
--G: It's your city, X, shouldn't we reconvene someplace less fragile.
--Demona doesn't like the idea, but Xanatos insists.
--(She's not ready to sever their partnership yet).
--Xanatos quietly names a spot that only Goliath (and Elisa via their wire) can hear.
--The eight combatants fly off, severally.
--Marshall only gets the tail end on camera.

13. Clock Tower.
--Hudson sees Marshall's report on t.v.
--Discusses dilemma (theoretically w/Bronx, but he's really talking to himself).
--Goliath told them to stay and guard the tower.
--What should he do?

14. George Washington Bridge.
(Or whatever bridge is closest to Times Square.)
--Your basic battle royale...on the bridge, in the air. Among other things...
--Brooklyn goes after Demona.
--He's still mad at her from "Temptation."
--Which allows Goliath and Coldstone to continue their face-off.
--The Steel Clan robot is destroyed.
--Xanatos is forced to unmask.
--But generally, the bad guys are winning, if barely.
--Coldstone & Goliath plunge into the icy river.

15. The River.
--Coldstone's got a built-in breathing apparatus that extends over his mouth and nose automatically.
--As they struggle underwater, Goliath's losing air and consciousness.
--G. hears Hudson's voice: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
--Suddenly, Goliath is pulled out of the water... by Coldstone.

16. An Ice flow.
--As G. gasps for breath he sees that a battered Demona and Xan have the drop on an even more battered Trio. The fight is over; the good guys lost.
--Demona's glad Coldstone saved G. for her to finish off.
--But Coldstone wants some answers first.
--Coldstone: "You said if Goliath dies. We would survive."
--Again, he indicates himself: "Is that all there is... surviving?"
--Demona's almost tender with him, but what she says is something like: "That's all that counts."
--But Goliath has finally figured it out. Surviving is not enough. To merely survive at all costs is not the gargoyle way. Gargoyles protect the way gargoyles breathe. To forget that leads to true corruption. Not the corruption of humans, or even Coldstone's metallic corruption. But the bitter fanaticism of Demona's corrupt soul. Or something like that.
--Of course, Demona's not just gonna sit there and let Goliath speechify forever.
--She takes aim.
--Coldstone leaps between them, takes the blast and is blown off the ice into the water. He does not resurface.
--Goliath immediately dives in after his brother.
--Demona fires into the water at both of them.
--She is furious at Coldstone's betrayal.
--Trio try to take some advantage of situation, but Xanatos won't allow it.
--Suddenly, the ice seems to be hit from above by a cannonball that sends everyone reeling.
--That was no cannonball that was Bronx. Hudson dropped him from on high.
--Again, the tide has turned. And it's all Xanatos can do to grab Demona and rocket her out of there.
--Goliath comes up for air. There's no sign of Coldstone.
--Goliath has lost his only surviving brother.

17. Epilogue #1 - Bridge.
--The six gargoyles are climbing back up the bridge. (They'll need some height to glide home.)
--Hudson apologizes for abandoning their home, the clock tower.
--Goliath points toward Manhattan and says something like: "The clock tower is where we sleep. But our home is that island. Our castle is Manhattan. And gargoyles always protect their castle... and anyone, human or gargoyle who resides within."
--Elisa pulls up in her car. It took her awhile to get clear of Matt.
--Are they o.k.? Do they need anything?
--Goliath: "I need a detective."

18. Epilogue #2 - All-Nite Grocery - Dawn.
--The thief from scene 1 comes in again.
--The owner is scared at first but the thief is very contrite.
--He gives back all the money and asks the owner to call the police so that he can turn himself in.
--When the flabbergasted owner asks why, the frightened thief replies: "Six monsters and a cop told me to."

19. Rooftop across the street from the All-Nite Grocery - Morning.
--In the cold early morning wind amid hazy sunlight, Elisa stands on the roof across the street from the grocery store amid six horrific stone gargoyles.
--Elisa watches, as Morgan (at the end of his shift) takes the thief away in his squad car.
--Elisa: "Well, it's a start. Xanatos, Demona, you two are next."
--The sun breaks through the clouds, shining brightly on a beautiful winter's day in Manhattan.
--E: "You know, guys, the city feels safer already."
--She leaves them there to sleep and heads home after a long night.
--FADE.

End of memo. My real Ramble should come soon.


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Joxter the Mighty writes...

Recently, when someone asked you what other cartoons you liked, you mentioned among them, "Old Development Bonkers"... What did you mean by that?

Greg responds...

There were two versions of Bonkers. One that I developed which featured Bonkers, Jitters, Sgt. Grating and Miranda Wright.

There were some problems on the show that came to light when episodes first came back from overseas. Disney panicked. Over-reacted. They basically took everyone off the show and started from scratch with a new developement and production team.

They tossed everything but Bonkers himself. Brought in Detective Piquel, and I think, watered down the premise. Some of the episodes might have been individually better -- and I think the art direction was definitely improved, but the ideas that made the show unique were flattened or ignored.

Then to add insult to injury they aired all the NEW episodes first, and created a "Transition episode" to transition from the Piquel episodes to the Miranda episodes, making it appear as if our stuff had been an afterthought. Given that our show didn't LOOK as good, it made us seem like a poor replacement, when in fact I think our stories were better (just my opinion).

By the way, the Miranda/Bonkers relationship was a clear precedent for Elisa/Goliath. (Doesn't that seem strange?) And because I didn't get to play out all my HILL STREET BLUES inspired cop ideas in Bonkers, it gave impetus to making Elisa a cop so that I could play that stuff out in Gargoyles.

Response recorded on April 07, 2000

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Blaise writes...

Hey Greg, just writing to say CONGRATS on the legal news concerning the "jerk" who tried to claim the rights to "Gargoyles". I had been wanting to ask about it, but considered that doing so would be in bad taste. Still, it is nice to hear of the "vindication" you have recieved. Here's hopeing no other wackos try to do something else like this.

Greg responds...

Thanks.

Response recorded on April 04, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

This is another "rambling" response, to your "Awakening: Part Four" ramble.

I actually saw an "edited-together" movie version of "Awakening" (taken from the television version rather than the video, evidently, since the eggs were included in it)on television on Saturday afternoon twice here in St. Louis, once in 1998 and once in 1999, where when Elisa was trapped in the boathouse, she did indeed appear to say (according to the closed captioning) "d-mn", and that did startle me. But I hadn't seriously thought that you'd have had her say that word in the series, so I can easily accept your explanation that it's just a grunt that got misunderstood.

The first time that I saw that episode, I had to miss Act Three so I didn't get to see Demona's explanation of how she survived through the centuries (which, we later on discover, turns out to be a lie - actually, Demona's actions in "Awakening" following that indicate that she HAD to be lying about being trapped in stone sleep, given how much more incredibly bitter she'd become about humans, something that would have to come about through waking experience, surely).

Hadn't even noticed the similarity between the dog Elisa uses as a decoy in Central Park and the one on the dog food commercial that Hudson and Bronx were watching (I wonder if Bronx would ever eat dog food, BTW). Thanks for sharing that with us - and the bit about Vinnie's cameo in "Awakening Part Four", too.

One particular scene that I liked in that episode: the one where, after the gargoyles have all glided off for the Cyberbiotics raid, we see Xanatos standing alone by the window, waiting. That was, I thought, a particularly great shot of him.

Greg responds...

Never trust the close captioning. I don't know who did that stuff, but they didn't even ask us for scripts. All they did was listen, like anyone could listen, and write down what they thought they heard. And frankly, they didn't do a very good job.

But that does explain where the "damn" myth comes from. Someone got it off the close caption.

Response recorded on April 04, 2000

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Entity writes...

Hi!

After reading your comments about prefering an hour-long format over a half-hour one, I thought I'd seek your opinion on something I (and I'm sure any other fan) has wondered: Do you think Gargoyles could've been "The One" to break through into mainstream?

Sure, the show was a breakthrough as it is. A heavy, animated drama series... and by the light and fluffy Disney, no less. But could it have gone further? Could it have been the first to gain the attention and respect of mainstream America? I don't think I have to say how condescendingly your average demographic adult views animation.

Gargoyles could've easily been an hour-long show. And while it had the fantasy and the science-fiction, its present urban setting made it down-to-earth. With it aimed at an adult demographic, there could've also been more of a PG rating.

That was the whole problem right there, in my opinion. The series should've never been targeted toward younger children. They were all watching Power Rangers. It was the older viewers who remember it. And they all came upon it on chance. To think of the audience Gargoyles could've gained had it been advertized for adults...

Gargoyles was so many things. Talk about a wide appeal. A cop show. A conspiracy show. A historical show. A mythological show. A sci-fi show. A business show. There were so many levels. It couldn't have been anything BUT successful.

Well, those are my... quite a few... cents. Heh. Hope I didn't ramble on.

Greg responds...

We targeted kids. I targeted kids. And, largely we were successful at reaching that target. Kids (of 1994-1996) still remember the show fondly. I know. They tell me.

I just didn't limit the show's appeal to kids.

So I think what you're really asking me is "WHAT IF IT HAD BEEN IN PRIME TIME and marketed that way?"

And my answer is... I just don't know. I would have thought that first season of BATMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES would have worked on primetime on FOX. And it didn't. And if we had been on one of the three major networks, I know we wouldn't have been given the time to build an audience and we'd have been gone. After six or less episodes. Cable sounds like the answer, but at the time there wasn't a single cable network that could have afforded the show and/or would have paid that money for a cartoon.

And all this by-passes the notion that we created the show specifically for the Disney Afternoon. So any speculation becomes such a series of What if's and maybes...

Which doesn't mean I haven't thought about it endlessly... :)

Response recorded on April 04, 2000

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Sharon writes...

I only discovered Gargoyles this past summer (first on Disney, later on Toon Disney) and I was immediately hooked! The characters and stories were intelligent and in-depth, and such a refreshing change from most cartoons nowadays.

I still have a hard time watching some of the episodes,(especially the ones that take place in medieval Scotland). I often find myself saying "if only!".. I know these are fictional characters, but I have come to care about them, and it's hard to see them screw up.

You also asked us to share our comments about the show, so I must say I loved that line by Xanatos when the Gargoyles are captured and bound to the coyote carving with a tray of acid above their heads and he says something like; "this is my first real stab at cliche villany, how am I doing?" That line was so over the top and yet so realistic it was great.

Furthermore the episode where Vinnie (?) spends the whole show pursuing the Gargoyles with a giant cannon while they fight for their lives and he finally shoots Goliath with a giant cream pie was unexpected and hilarious.

That is another thing I like about the show. Although tragic things happened, and could not be undone, these were intermixed with classic moments of comedy.

Greg responds...

Thanks, Sharon. We tried to balance the tone. Vinnie's pie is an obvious example, but we tried to keep things light amid the general darkness. And we tried to show that there's a lot of humor in the darkness too. Glad it worked for you.

Response recorded on April 04, 2000

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Ed writes...

Hi there, Greg!

At the time of writing, you've just been going through rambles about past episodes, specifically the first 'AWAKENING' instalments. So here's my own views on it, responding to some of the points/questions you raised then. (For those that missed those rambles, they were dated 10-12 February and are presumably in the 'rambles' section).

Firstly, a little explanation of how I came to 'Gargoyles'. The first episodes I watched were World Tour episodes ending with 'THE GATHERING PART ONE'. I missed a lot around then; the only ones I do remember seeing for sure were 'EYE OF THE STORM', 'THE GREEN' and 'BUSHIDO', 'ILL MET' and 'FUTURE TENSE'. This interested me enough (especially with that Oberon cliffhanger) to keep my hooked, but Disney took it off-air after that. But when flicking through the television channels one morning I found what I thought to be a curious little medieval cartoon. The scene had Katharine and the Magus in the banquet hall.

I quite like sword and sorcery bits and pieces, and the initial impression I got was that it looked rather realistic. It did occur to me that it was similar to 'Gargoyles' although I don't know what tipped me off (possibly the music). Of course, when I saw Goliath walk in, I got really excited. :)

I think what did occur to me (although I'm not sure how accurately I can recall) is that he seemed to have more presence about him then. More menace if you will.

One interesting thing is how many tiny little scene contrasts I didn't pick up as being significant. You mentioned the hypocrisy of Katharine having dogs in the chamber but blaming the Captain for 'beasts in the dining hall', and Broadway's differing reactions to food as the different circumstances demonstrated.

What annoyed me most about these episodes were the darn "next time on Gargoyles" snippets. These always annoy me. It seems like:
(a) an excuse to pad out air time.
(b) an indication that the people that whoever added it didn't have enough faith in the power of their cliffhanger to leave it to stand alone.
(c) a spoiler in a lot of ways.
Who decided to include these?

My first reactions to Xanatos... well, I knew that he was suspect because I'd seen him in THE GATHERING. The character fascinated me, but obviously I knew that he had another motive. I always felt that the introduction betrayed that a bit as well...

As for the Demona shadow... well it did give it away somewhat. I must admit, I didn't recognise Demona at all. I'd cottoned on that Angela (although I couldn't remember her name then) was the daughter of Demona. I can't remember whether this was simply because their designs were so similar as to make it obvious, or because I particularly remembered this detail. It was painfully obvious that Demona was alive from the initial encounter. It was a fascinating twist, although it did dumb down the surprise. And because I knew that Xanatos was a bad guy, the connection wasn't too difficult to make.

That GMTV run lasted until UPGRADE (omitting REVELATIONS and DOUBLE JEOPARDY, but including TURF). I only realised far too late in the day that I should start taping it, but what I do remember from the initial run was that the characters did get confusing.

For example, when I first watched vows it was several months after AWAKENING and I'd forgotten what the Magus looked like. So naturally, I got the Archmage confused with the Magus quite a bit. In some ways, this might have been the advantage that I 'got on' the 'Gargoyles' fan ride at the World Tour. The scenario was fairly self-explanatory - three gargoyles and a human touring the world and sorting out whatever problems arose there. After I was fairly hooked into it (that 14-month GATHERING cliffhanger) I then found out the backstory. But it wasn't until I was able to tape them that I appreciated the continuity.

To this extent, I do wonder if - even though it's not popular amongst many fans - the World Tour was a well-timed addition.

That's enough from me - you're supposed to be the one rambling on this page. ^_^

Greg responds...

No, no, I want us all to ramble. That's what makes it fun.

As for those "Next time" teasers, this was done for a number of reasons.

1. We DID want to pad out our air time. Teasers take up time that allow us to edit the show tighter, make it play better. They are a useful tool.

2. One concern we had about the first episode was that it was entirely medieval except for a two minute prologue that the audience might have missed or even forgotten. We wanted the audience to know that the series was largely set in the present. There was a feeling among the execs that a medieval series wouldn't play as well. No one wanted to cut back on our 994 flashback, but they did want to use the Teaser to reassure the audience that the show was contemporary and cool. Reaffirm our core premise. This wasn't my idea, but I wasn't against it.

3. Once we elected to use the Teasers on episode one, we felt we should be consistent for the whole mini-series.

Response recorded on March 31, 2000

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Onil writes...

Awakening -One big comment on the mini-series

I remember my first time watching the series VERY well. After my first day of high school I came home and saw an ad for the show that was cut from the "darker" scenes used in the opening credits. I was intersested. The next Monday, I came home late and forgot about "that new cartoon I wanted to see", but caught it when I was flicking the channels. I only missed a little bit of the intro. I watched the ep and was interested in it even though it wasn't what I expected from the commercial. To be honest I DID expect it to be more Batamn-like, but i didn't care -- the "you are tresspassing scene" had me hooked.
I have to say that every surprise that was unveiled really did surprise me. I didn't expect the clan to be slaughtered, and I did think that Demona was dead -- I figured Goliath would be able to ID her remians. Seeing her behind the shadows in the doorway TOTALLY ruined that for me though, so I felt zero dramatic effect when Goliath and his true love were reunited. But I didn't really care, everything was just so well-done that everytime I watched the show, there was a unique mood that was unlike any show I had seen. Sure, the animation was amazing, but the music helped too (except in the butchered direct-to-video version).

After the mini-series was done, I wasn't sure whether or not any more eps were being shown. In Toronto, the mini was first shown on a major Canadian network (that kids never watched after school). The Fox carrier that we see started showing the mini at 7AM on weekdays, but there was no way I could wake up to watch it. I set my VCR timer and ended up seeing the same mini rerun for another 2 weeks until new episodes were finally being aired. I remember the show temporarily moving to afternoons for some of Season 2, but I know that there must've been a lot of kids out there that had no idea where the show came from. It's not the kind of show everyone could jump right into (not that I'm complaining). I just think Gargoyles got a rotten deal when it came to Canadian timeslots.

Greg responds...

That's too bad about Canada. We had some bum luck here and there. The OJ Simpson trial didn't help us either.

I'm also a big fan of Carl Johnson's evocative music for the series. But I helped edit "the butchered direct-to-video version" which as I've said many times wasn't edited for direct to video at all. Anyway, what was wrong with the music in that?

Response recorded on March 31, 2000

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Blaise writes...

Whew! I'm going to have trouble keeping up with your remarks on the episodes!

"Awakening Part 3"
Brooklyn the ladies' garg...well THAT certainly would have been interesting to say the least.
And I agree with your observation that it would have been best to not have seen Demona's silhouette (I KNOW that's spelled wrong) in the doorway this early-on. It would have made her reappearance in Part 4 more shocking and her story more believable. At this point I kind of figured Xanatos was untrustworthy, but wondered about "the female gargoyle" and what her role in all this was.
The latch on the freezer door actually would have made that scene more believable (especially because that door shouldn't have been so heavy that Brooklyn and Lexington TOGETHER would have had to exert so much effort). Forgive me for bringing up a little wound here, but WHY does Toon Disney think it has to cut the scene of Brooklyn's escapade with the stove? I would think children would be LESS likely to play with a stove, if that scene does anything other than make them laugh.
Really wish you guys had been able to sneak in Elisa's little joke about names. ;) Hudson really is terrific in that scene, and I still love the zinger Elisa gives about the River.
I do have to agree that everytime I watch this ep now it constantly surprises me to hear Goliath tell a joke. How many of those did he get in the series? Two? Three, maybe?
As for the mistakes in Broadway/Brooklyn's lines and the animation, well...okay, don't take this as criticism (it isn't), but at this point, either one could have said those two lines and it would have been alright. Personally, I kind of like the way it did turn out (not to second guess you, Michael Reeves, and Eric Luke).
And yeah, who'd have thought cameo characters would be given development?

I like these rambles of yours!

Greg responds...

I like yours too.

And I have no idea why Toon Disney makes the cuts they do. They don't consult me, obviously.

Response recorded on March 31, 2000


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