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Were you or the other creators and writers of the series of frustrated with what I term "cartoon cliches"? For example knock-out gas, lasers or having to replace profanity with the word jalapenia.
A specific example: the beginning of deadly force. Does the mafia in all animated shows have stock in chloroform or something? If the Supranos or police reports have taught us anything it's that organized crime tends to be accomplished with a lot of people being shot.
There are others things certainly, so i ask simply, do tell us what you found frustrating, stupid or just plain wrong in creating stories for Gargoyles, the constraints and cliches you hated.
I didn't hate much, frankly. At least we got to use real guns within reason. Today, not even a cop can pull a real gun. You'd never see a "Deadly Force" on broadcast today.
I don't mind being either more creative or slightly more fanciful in a world and in a universe where that is appropriate. I'll reserve my "hate" for more serious concerns.'
Do I wish sometimes we could swear? Maybe. Occasionally. But not often. And I LIKED "Jalapeña" even if my art staff hated it.
Sorry if that's not strident enough for you.
I'm not sure if you're the one to ask about this, but they've yet to make an "Ask Jamie" segment, so here goes:
It's a pretty frivolous question, anyway.
The Hound of Ulster was one of the better World Tour tales, if you ask me, but I found the character design and direction of the Banshee was superb, both in terms of looking like the Banshee of myth and just as a cool design in and of itself.
My question is: How much of that is Sheena Easton? I know she's a singer, but, wow! That was crazy! Was it enhanced at all, or was that all her? If it was, I'm very impressed.
Even if it's not, I'm still moderately impressed :)
A lot of it was Sheena, but credit should be stretched around. To voice director Jamie Thomason too. But mostly to the wonderful people at Advantage Audio, our post-production sound house.
Marc Perlman and Paca Thomas combined to create sound and music effects to play alongside Sheena's voice. And then Advantage did a great job mixing that voice. (I'm afraid I can't remember who specifically did the mix but choose two from the following list: Jim, Bill, Ray and Melissa.) It was stunning stuff -- I remember thinking that at the time. Should have won a Golden Reel in my opinion.
Recently I rewatched my tape of one of my favorite World Tour episodes, "Grief". While there are so many things I enjoy in that episode, the thing that never fails to blow me away is when Jackal becomes the avatar for Anubis. Oh, the merging of the Packster and the Death God's voice is just... W-O-W, wow! I absolutely love Tony Jay's voice, it's so powerful and majestic with just the right amount of creepiness, great as Anubis just perfect for any role of quiet menance and dignified sophistication. The technique of mingling the two speakers was brilliant-- it was so powerful, and expertly done. Just wanted to tell you I loved it!
Thanks! I will take credit for the IDEA of merging the two voices. But of course credit for the execution of that idea goes to actors Tony Jay & Matt Frewer (and later Tony and Tony Shaloub) under the direction of Jamie Thomason. Plus the excellent soundwork of the gangs at the now defunct Screen Music Studios and at Advantage Audio.
I noticed that in one episode a writer named Steve Perry is listed. One line makes me think this is the same man who wrote the "Matador" series of books back in the late 80's and early 90's: Hyena finds out that coyote is a robot and responds "Even better" with just a hint of sexual tension.
Is this Steve Perry the same one who wrote "Shadows of the Empire" for George Lucas, or am I seeing something that isn't there?
I honestly don't know. Steve was hired by Michael Reaves. I've talked to him on the phone a couple of times, but I don't know him or his resumee very well.
I have a language question. The gargoyles (Manhattan Clan)come from medevil Scotland, right? Well, English 1000 years ago wasn't the same as it is now. It actually bears little resemblence to old English, so how could the gargoyles understand our English (Modern English) when they woke up in NY in 1994?
When you really think about it they should be speaking Scottish since they're from a time when people in Scotland spoke Scottish, not English.
So either way you look at it there should have been a lot of communication problems at first. (I can accept we can understand everyone in Scotland 994 since you'd have to use subtitles otherwise. Thanks :)
You are essentially correct, although I'd use the term Gaelic, I think, rather than Scottish.
The "behind the scenes" answer, as I've mentioned before, was that we chose Scotland in part because it's a place where people CURRENTLY speak English, so we felt we could skate past the language question without too much of a problem.
The "in universe" answer, which I've also mentioned before, came, I believe, from Michael Reaves, who suggested that a spell was cast (perhaps by Demona before Goliath & Company were brought to the top of the Eyrie Building) to bring the Gargoyles up to speed language-wise without any of them realizing that they'd been effected.
Hi.
I was just taking a look at your last ramble. I never noticed this liberty your background artists had taken which you alluded to. Their inclusion of all of these portraits of Elisa in MacBeth's home. I was wondering if that kind of material (outside where you probably would have intended to take the series) would have emerged as it's own story if it had the chance?
What I mean is, when creative contributors outside the writing team took liberties like that, or even if some kind of happy accident developed, did you ever try to develop them into their own story? I, personally, would have been interested in learning why Mr. MacBeth had those portraits adorning his home.
Often, story ideas came from sources other than me or my writing team. Sometimes happy accidents definitely contributed.
I don't know whether I would have addressed those portraits because I find them utterly mystifying. I don't know what the bg painters were thinking. The only thought that comes to mind is that Macbeth is obsessed with Elisa -- and he's just not. So sometimes I ignore what I can only categorize as mistakes.
Still if a great idea occured to me, I certainly wouldn't be above using it...
I was reading some of your answers and was reminded about how Broadway was originally female. I am an overweight female, and the thought that a overweight female gargoyle wouldn't have bothered me in particular. I think it is all in the way the character is. Broadway knows he is big, and his self esteem is pretty good, considering the jabs his rookery brothers make. He is smarter then he looks too. Naive, but so were the rest of the clan, it's a learning process. New time, new people, new culture, new ideas. I love Broadway, think he is a great character, but I hope one day they can come out with an overweight, young, smart female. Most overweight females are all the Miss Potts type. Mother hens, grandmothers, etc. I like the way Broadway is and acts, and I wouldn't want that to change, but I still want to see a similar female character one day, human, gargoyles, whatever. I know a some people blow things out of proportion when a female actress puts on a fat suit, like Courtney Cox in Friends. If your going to make the character humourous, it should be tasteful, not hurtful. Someone for people to look up to, not a joke, most characters should be. Look what they do to mentally retard people, Adam Sandler still does it, and it's still funny to a large amount of the public. (Not me.) Maybe it's just me about the whole thing, I am overweight, but I am secure in my look. I think the ones who bash the overweight characters are the people are unsecure with themselves. But there's my ramble. What do you think?
I basically agree with everything you've written here. And, as I think I've admitted before, I'll blame our original decision (to change Coco into Broadway) on a combination of cowardice and commercial interests. We were doing a show that was designed to appeal to a wide audience on many levels. But fundamentally (i.e. economically), we still needed to hit our main target audience of Boys 6-11. We felt -- and I'm not defending our decision, just revealing it -- that that particular audience could enjoy and appreciate a tough male warrior garg that was (at least at the beginning) both overweight and fairly obsessed with food. We felt that the same character as a female would come across as (a) less interesting to that target audience and (b) likely to bring negative attention to the series.
The conventional wisdom, for example, at toy companies is that female action figures don't sell as well as male action figures. Kenner would not have been interested in Coco -- as they were not interested in Angela. But they were interested in Broadway.
Another conventional wisdom is that no good deed goes unpunished. We felt that if our one heroic female was overweight, we would not be praised for it, but attacked -- perhaps even called misogynistic, which I hope no one thinks our series is.
We justified all this creatively with the notion that the Gargs situation was more tragic when the only female left alive was the enemy Demona. But adding a female gargoyle to the cast was a huge priority for me for Season Two. Granted, Angela is quite svelte, but that made sense given who her biological parents were.
My hope, over time, was to introduce the audience to a whole bunch of individual gargoyles and gargoyle beasts -- in both genders and of all shapes and sizes.
hello, I want to say that if there is any way that any one cares,that I'm one of the third race(lol) and yes my real name is Forliya. how did you come up with the show GARGOYLES in the first place???????
viva Gargoyles!!!!!!!!
A team of us worked together to bring it to life.
Personally, I've always been fascinated by Gargoyles. For more info, check the Archives for this site.
Greg, what age group was gargoyles ment for and what age group did it attract?
It's primary target was Boys 6-11. But the show was created and designed to reach a MUCH larger audience than that. For financing purposes we had to hit our target. (And we did, though not as well as Power Rangers.) But we also sought out and reached an audience that included both males & females and everyone from age six to sixty, as far as I can tell.
'Kingdom' ramble:
It's funny how you mention Xanatos finding out that Goliath is missing, then not hatching any kind of a plot as a result, because you honestly couldn't think of something. I strained my brain to try and figure out how X might possibly use such knowledge to his advantage, and came up dry, so when nothing happened, I kind of expected it. In fact, felt validated by it. In my head, knowing that Goliath was missing let him put two and two together in episodes like "Cloud Fathers."
X's new security system DID suck, but it's cool to know why it was installed (as a result of "Double Jeopardy"). Those cannons were out of control. I think the sequence would have worked, thanks to the atmosphere and X's cool lines, if the cannons just would have aimed AWAY from the castle. The redundancy didn't bother me. Sure, Mac's place has these spiffy blaster cannons too, but HE'S not Xanatos.
Where did those Cyberbiotics rifles come from? Why did Cyberbiotics abandon them? Okay, so they pulled out fast, but jeez, talk about corporate neglect, leaving an arsenal of deadly weaponry in a subway. So much for Renard's integrity. (I'm trying to bait you here.)
Oh, the climax with Maggie and the key card? One of my favorites. The build-up is perfect and Carl Johnson composes it well.
Carl is great, but much credit should go to Marc Perlman, our music editor. We couldn't afford to have Carl score every episode. So Marc had to edit Carl's music to fit any situation. Though they were rarely in the same room together, the two made an amazing team.
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