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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Hello again,

I have a questions about the original Olympians in the Gargoyles universe. I hope you aren't sick of my curiosity about the Third Race, but the links to mythology are my favorite parts of Gargoyles, since I've always loved mythology.

I was looking in the Archives about the New Olympians, and I found two entries that interested me. In 2000, concerning the New Olympians and their ancestors, when asked about those ancestors who were worshipped as gods, you wrote:
"They weren't actually immortal."

Later in 2001, you wrote:
"The ancestors were the "gods and monsters" of legend. Many of whom were known as the Olympian Gods of Ancient Greek and Roman mythology.
Most of them were of the Children."

I'm sure I am misinterpreting your responses, but I find these two seem contradictory. The 2001 response indicates most of them were "of the Children" but the 2000 response seems to me to mean that most of them were not Children of Mab.

1. With regards to the original 12 Olympians, were most of the 12 Olympians Children of Mab, or just some of them? Or were most of the original 12 Olympians hybrids?

Thank you.

Greg responds...

Just some of them.

Response recorded on April 27, 2009

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Hello Greg,

Thank you for taking questions again!
I have been waiting a while to continue this conversation about the Third Race. Honestly I have so many questions that I've been waiting to ask for the longest time, but I have generally held back so I wouldn't flood the queue.

A while ago, I asked you <<"Are Children of Oberon vulnerable to steel, since it contains iron?">>
You responded:
<<"I think pure iron is what they're MOST vulnerable, but who wants to take chances?">>

I think it makes sense that they're _most_ vulnerable to pure iron (wrought iron). However, it doesn't make sense to me that steel has no effect _at all_, yet this appears to be the case, judging from the ineffective-ness of Hudson's sword in The Gathering, and that spear in Mark of the Panther. Steel is stronger than wrought iron and holds a sharper edge, but chemically there is very little difference between steel and pure iron.

I did some research, and steel (including ancient steel and most modern steel) is 98%-99.5% elemental iron -- almost as pure as wrought iron. Cast iron is actually less pure than steel, it contains less elemental iron. Modern stainless steel is even less pure than cast iron.
It also turns out that all of what is marketed as "wrought iron" today is actually steel.

1. I have a question. Children of Oberon can be seriously harmed by being cut or stabbed with pure iron, but does it harm them just to touch it? Was Puck harmed (even just getting a rash or a minor burn) by having those chains on all night (in the Mirror)? They were touching his skin, but he didn't seem physically uncomfortable, just annoyed at Demona.

Greg responds...

I don't think it causes hives, but I suppose it varies from individual to individual.

Response recorded on March 24, 2009

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Wesley Nichols writes...

I reread one of your old postings where you state that fans sometimes call Oberon's Children fey, yet you do not really use this term because you need to do more research on what it means. Fey is one of the ways of saying fairy in french (fairy is a french word) with different ways of it being spelled such as fey, fae, or fairy. You have also stated that Oberon's children were sometimes called Dark Elves yet according to Elves, Wights, and Trolls by Kveldulf Gundarsson, Dark Elves were actually the dead in old Scandinavian religion. We know less about the light elves who were a type of god. However modern mythologists often confuse them with Dwarves (Swart Alfs). Alfs is what the scandinavians called elves before the word was anglecized by the english.

Greg responds...

"Swart" means "black". So Swart Alfs would be Dark Elves... so...?

And in any case, I think my point about the fey was that it was NOT my term of choice. It didn't cover ALL that Oberon's Children were.

Response recorded on October 22, 2008

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

I've been thinking about the Gathering of the Third Race, and its effect on the various pantheons of the Gargoyles Universe. Once when asked about the afterlife and the Underworlds run by the gods, you wrote:

"My gut reaction, based on Dante as much as anything, is that people go where their souls truly want to go. Since it's voluntary, though not necessarily consciously so, there's no conflict with Oberon's edict."

I find this response interesting, since it allows those religious beliefs to all be true and (fairly) accurate, at the same time.
You've also told us that during the Gathering, the Children of Oberon (with a few exceptions like Puck and Titania) will be mostly confined to Avalon and will have to stay there until the Gathering ends. This raises two questions in my mind.
In various mythologies, the afterlife/underworld is populated by gods who judge and watch over the dead. The Greek myths mention Elysion, Tartaros, and the Kingdom of Hades, and Egyptian mythology mentions the Duat. The Aztec gods have several different afterlife options, such as Mictlan. In your previous response you said that dead mortals can still go to afterlives/underworlds controlled by the Third Race if they give some unconscious assent. But what happened to these afterlife places (or whatever you want to call them) after the Gathering started?

1. Are the Children of Oberon completely forbidden to visit in these underworlds/afterlife places during the Gathering?

2. During the Gathering, are the Children of Oberon completely forbidden to visit Earth or interact with the mortals there?

Thanks!

Greg responds...

1. I'm sure Oberon doesn't want his "officers" shirking their responsibilities. Some considerations have probably been made.

2. Largely, yes.

Response recorded on October 03, 2008

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

1. I've been wondering about the subject of families for a while.
Humans usually form nuclear families, or extended families, around biological kinship -- biological parents and children, and maybe grandparents, aunts, or uncles. Children generally grow up with their biological siblings, raised by their biological parents, or maybe a grandparent. If adopted, they generally form nuclear families as though they were biological. Many human societies have legal polygamy, while others value monogamy.
Gargoyles usually raise their offspring communally, one entire generation of parents raising a whole rookery generation as a set of siblings. Biological relationships are not important, and each individual has many parents and siblings. Siblings are only those who are the same age. For both species, it appears (except in dysfunctional families) that parents and children tend to bond closely, and individuals bond more or less closely with their siblings. Among gargoyles, mates are usually rookery siblings, they mate for life, and are almost always monogamous.
So far we have not learned anything about Third Race families, and I don't know whether you've thought much yet about how they raise their offspring. But I'm curious to see what you're willing to share about how Third Race parents, offspring, and siblings usually define their relationships to each other, how or whether they emotionally bond, what their (typical) concept of a family is. Does a member of the Third Race only have their two biological parents, or more than two parents, or less than two? Who usually raises them? Do they value monogamy, or is it acceptable/legal for them to have multiple marriages at once (not all partners are marriages)? I'm not looking for individual answers, but just an idea of what is typical or common or average for the Third Race.

2. Short question: Humans kiss and gargoyles stroke each other's head/hair/horns. What is the Third Race equivalent to these behaviors? (I'm guessing that since the Third Race can be humanoid or giant spiders or else have the heads of jackals, etc., that kissing isn't practical.)

Greg responds...

1. I'm mostly not going to answer this now, but expect variety.

2. Kissing works often. But there are other options, I'm sure.

Response recorded on April 30, 2008

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Zabrian writes...

Now i noticed and a may be wrong but Titania seemed less effected by iron as did puck then Oberon himself. I was wondering if maybe this was because they are less Allergic to it being his children, and is Titania just less effected in general?

Greg responds...

They're not LITERALLY his children. And I'm not sure why you say they were less effected?

Response recorded on April 14, 2008

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Queen of Night writes...

Wow, I had no idea Bad Guys was already out. It's been a busy month. But I got a lot of thinking time since I've been on medical leave and I came up with these little gems.

1. OK, in the case of Owen/Puck you've said that Owen is fully human and can't do magic unless he's Puck (as far as I know anyway) and that rule applies to all Faeries. However, Fox is the offspring of Titania as a human and Reynard but she and her son are able to cast spells. I've read a few things about the differences between human and faerie magic but the only times we've seen magic in humans is through an object of some sort i.e. the Grimoire, the Eye of Odin, the Pheonix Gate ect. So what kind of magic do Fox and Alex (and presumely Merlin) use? If human why don't they need an object; if Fairy how?

2. I'm a HUGE fan of Midsummer's Night Dream but there is one thing that has irritaed me even when I was 10 years old. You switched the roles of Titania and Oberon. In the play Oberon was the consort though he was King of the Elves, Titania was the Queen of Fairies. What made you switch their roles?

3. I know you'll hate this question but is Mab plotting the destruction of Titania and Oberon or is she just gonna destroy us all outright?

Thanks for the answers!

Greg responds...

1. Mortal sorcery doesn't enter into it. Owen is a mortal construct, able to do no magic except transform into Puck. Fox is half-human/half Child of Oberon. Alex is 3/4 human, 1/4 Child. Merlin is half and half. What isn't clear about this?

2. I've read and seen Midsummer easily 100 times. In what way did I switch their roles? Are you sure you're not allowing your interpretation of the play to influence your interpretation of what we did on the show?

3. I don't hate the question, but I have no intention of answering it at this time.

Response recorded on January 15, 2008

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NOVEMBER 18

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

November 17th...

1994
Tony Dracon steals hi-tech weapon prototypes from Xanatos Enterprises. Elisa is put on the case and confronts Dracon, who later orders Glasses to sell a few of the weapons on the street. Broadway rushes off to see the movie Showdown again and then goes to Elisa's loft for a bite to eat. He accidentally shoots her with her own gun and rushes her to Manhattan General Hospital. He does not return to the castle.

1995
At the behest of Fox, the cybots are reprogrammed by Preston Vogel to sabotage Fortress-2. Goliath and Renard join forces to defeat them and save the ship. In the end, Vogel has a change of heart and assists. Early that morning, Fox confronts Renard, informing her father of her pregnancy. Owen learns from Xanatos that Fox is pregnant and begins making preparations for a possible attack from the Children of Oberon.


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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

I have a few more questions I'm wondering about the Children of Oberon. I'm trying not to ask too many at one time.

1. a. The Children of Oberon are shapeshifters, able to appear any way they want, right? So I'm wondering, why did Odin always have one eye in "Eye of the Storm" (before he got it back) in all forms? The obvious/immediate answer is that in the myths he's one-eyed, so he had to be one-eyed in the show, but what is the reason for that in the Gargoyles Universe? After giving an eye to Mimir, was Odin unable to change shape into a form with two (or more) eyes, or did he just chose not to (that we saw)?
b. In the myths of some cultures (like the Norse) gods can lose body parts, but in some other cultures the myths say gods can't be permanently injured. Is it possible for Children of Oberon to permanently lose body parts (um, until they find them again and reattach them like Odin did), or be injured seriously enough to leave permanent scars? I've gotten the impression they are not flesh and blood -- even when Oberon was stabbed with the iron harpoon, he didn't bleed.

2. a. In the past when asked if the Third Race need food you answered "Yes, depending on their chosen form."
When a Child of Oberon is not in a truly mortal form, does he or she need food? (By "truly mortal form" I mean a mortal flesh-and-blood body like Owen, not just a shape that looks like a human or gargoyle.)
b. When a Child of Oberon is not in a truly mortal form, does he or she need to breathe?

3. When a Child of Oberon takes on a completely mortal body and mates with a mortal of the appropriate species, the offspring is a "halfling." But what happens if two Children of Oberon both take mortal forms of the same species, and then have kids together? What would their offspring be?

And thank you again for answering our questions! It's really great to have this website.

Greg responds...

1a. The exchange itself created a mystic restriction.

1b. Rules that cannot be broken can be bent, but they can't be broken. But they can be bent. But not broken. (Get the idea.)

2a. Yes, but I'm not defining what food is for them.

2b. Yes, but I'm not defining what they breathe.

3. Confused?

Response recorded on November 07, 2007

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

Yay the queue is open! I'm happy you're taking questions again. (and I'm of course excited to get #6, which I'll be ordering asap). I hope you don't mind questions unrelated to reviewing the comic... those Children of Oberon always make me so curious.

1. a. So Ragnarok already occured in the Gargoyles Universe. When did it happen? (If you don't want to give a year or decade, can you please say what century it happened in?)
b. Did any of the gods survive Ragnarok, other than Odin? If some did, who?

2. You've also told us that the war between the Titans and Olympians was a real event in the Gargoyles Universe. What happened to the defeated Titans afterwards? (I don't want to assume it is the same as the myths, or to ask more specifically for fear it would be an idea)

3. When was Oberon born? (If you don't want to give the year or decade, please say what century?)

Greg responds...

1a. Yes, it occured, but no I'm not going to hint at a date (even a century) at this time.

1b. Yes, a few others did. But I'm not revealing who at this time. (Though the myths themselves are a good hint.)

2. I'm not answering this at this time.

3. Ditto.

Response recorded on October 11, 2007

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

I hope nothing in my previous questions about the fae bothered you.

These are the other questions I have about the Children of Oberon ... as you can see I'm very curious about them. I hope five questions are not too many. (At least I got the number right this time!)

1. In some cultures, shamans believe that they have a personal connection to an animal totem who acts as a helper or spirit guide. In the "Gargoyles" universe, is this true? (OK, all things are true, but is it correct? :) ) Do any of the Third Race such as Raven and Coyote form personal connections to shamans or other individual humans (besides the one formed in the Coyote Dance)? I understand this isn't necessarily something you want to reveal, I'm just hoping you're in the mood. :)

2. How many people can be avatars of a single Child of Oberon at any one time? Is there a limit?

3. a. Are halflings vulnerable to iron the way that the Third Race are? Fox doesn't seem to be bothered, she never suspected she was a halfling. But if for example, Alex shapeshifted into a non-mortal form, would he be vulnerable to iron?
b. Can a halfling be bound with iron, the way Puck was in The Mirror, or how the Coyote robot captured Coyote?

4. The Children of Oberon cannot use their magic on iron. But the Magus (a human) used Avalon's magic on iron. Can halflings use fae magic to affect iron? (but I don't mean to imply that Avalon's magic is the same as fae magic)

5. a. Does each Child of Oberon have an inherent sex or gender, or is their sex/gender only a shape they take? Personally I think of sex as a biological or physical trait, but gender seems to be more psychological, or even spiritual.
b. Not necessarily the same question ... can Children of Oberon take on shapes of either gender (or no gender, or hermaphroditic, or make up an imaginary gender)? Can they take mortal forms of either sex?

OK, anyway thank you again for answering our questions! It is really great to be able to find out more about the Gargoyles Universe.

Greg responds...

1. Sure.

2. One.

3a. Have to wait and see.

3b. Chains are still chains.

4. Again, the term "fae" is NOT from the show. The fans use it so much, that I sometimes slip into it. But it's not accurate to my mind. Which doesn't, of course, answer your question.

5a. The Children are a relatively new species. Gender may be learned on their part (the way language came from human to gargoyle) which doesn't make it less important at this point.

5b. Yes. Remember Loki, MOTHER of Sleipnir.

Response recorded on July 16, 2007

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Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

My favorite part of "Gargoyles" has always been the incorporation of myths and legends -- both the presence of actual gods and characters like King Arthur and Cuchullain, and the hints that gargoyles inspired some mythical creatures, such as griffins, black dogs, and feathered serpents. Greek Mythology was one of my first great loves as a child, and remains one of my favorite things to read about and study, though I've branched out somewhat into the myths of other cultures. And I agree with Chip, I'm very glad you didn't make Anubis evil. Lots of fantasy settings that use mythological characters just assume that all death gods are evil, without really reading any of the stories about them, and that irritates me a great deal.

So naturally, I am very curious about the Children of Oberon, and their connection to mythology around the world. I have a lot of questions about them, and I don't want to bother you by posting a ton all at once, so I'm only posting some of them for now. I hope 6 in one post is not too many.

1. a. Are Children of Oberon vulnerable to steel, since it contains iron? Oberon reacted badly to Elisa's gun which she said was "steel alloy" but I have no idea what bullets themselves are made of, or if Oberon knows what bullets are. And the spear that Anansi was stabbed with looked to me like steel.
b. Can Children of Oberon be harmed at all by non-iron weapons, such as a bronze sword, or fire, or a laser?

2. a. In the past when asked if the Third Race need food you answered "Yes, depending on their chosen form." To clarify, do you mean that they only need food when they take a truly mortal form like Owen, but not when they are in a Third Race form (like Puck)? Or that it depends on what shape they take even when not in a mortal form?
b. Do the Third Race need to breathe? I mean, when they are not in a truly mortal form like Owen. c. If they do breathe, what gas do they use? Oxygen, or carbon dioxide, or something else? I'm guessing I know what the answer is, somebody once asked about blood and oxygen and you said they have no blood. I'm just trying to be sure.

3. You've said that some of the Greek gods were Children of Mab but some may have been halflings similar to the New Olympians. Since Zeus and the other Greek gods were worshiped at least as early as 2000 BC, if any of the Olympians were halflings, could any of them still be alive in 1996? Can halflings actually live thousands of years? (without being enchanted by somebody else like Macbeth and Demona were)

4. Were/are the Titans members of the Third Race?

5. I think you've stated that the Aesir were of the Third Race. What about the Vanir?

Thanks again for answering questions from the fans.

Greg responds...

1a. I think pure iron is what they're MOST vulnerable, but who wants to take chances?

1b. Depends on their form, their preparedness, etc.

2a. Uh... yes?

2b. I'm not really in the business of allowing you to be sure. (I'm in a quirky mood today. Excited about the Gathering, I think.)

3. Not revealing this at this time.

4. Largely.

5. Many, not all the Aesir were Children. As for the Vanir... not revealing this at this time.

6. Didn't you say you had six questions?

Response recorded on June 12, 2007

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Chip writes...

As I mentioned at the '06 Gathering (but you prolly forgot, no big) I am an Egyptology Major and my favorite episode was "Greif". Because A; it portrayed Anubis (Which is his Greek Name BTW, the Egyptians called him Yinepu or Inpu) in a positive light (and as one of the Third Race, cool to tie everything together) B; because it was a well written and powerful episode C; because it explained (Though not in so many words) the blending together of Egyptian Gods (They merge and change roles frequently) and D; because as powerful as Anubis was he could not undo death, even death he caused. Very powerful to me.

Which brings me around to my question, which other gods of Egypt (also called Neter or Netjer just like the Norse gods were called the Aesir) exist in the Gargoyles Universe? Because of the Shapeshifting Nature of the Third Race any number of gods could have fullfilled many roles (as they did in Eygptian Mythology)

Is Thoth in the Gargverse? Osiris? Isis? Set? Horus? Ra? Hathor/Sahkmet? Bes? Sobek? These are just some of my favorites, there are over 10,000 Egyptian gods.

In honesty, I don't expect you to have thought about this as much as I have, but you never know, I might just be surprised (you do that alot)

Rock On!

(OH! PS: if you need an Egyptology Consult for any upcoming issues I'm your guy!)

Greg responds...

Thanks, Chip. I might take you up on that someday. Thoth is pretty much a lock. Beyond that, I'd rather not say.

Response recorded on May 22, 2007

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APRIL 25

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

April 25th...

1058
Canmore is crowned High King of Scotland as Malcolm III.

1996
The Banshee informs Puck that the Gathering is at hand.


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Shadow Wing writes...

When they speak of Oberon's Law and/or The Law that Cannot Be Broken, does this refer only to the law of non-interference, or in a more general, "his word is law" sense?

Greg responds...

Depends on context.

Response recorded on April 03, 2007

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Anonymous writes...

Are changelings called to the Gathering?

Greg responds...

Probably depends on what their status was pre-diaspora, i.e. 1001 years ago.

Response recorded on March 29, 2007

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Apostolos writes...

At Gathering, Part II, when Petros Xanatos shoot and wounded Oberon(deadly, in my opinion) with an iron arrow, why Oberon didn't died? Is he "just" valnerable to iron, or can die by it?
For example, if you cut Oberon's head with an iron sword, would Oberon died?

Greg responds...

He can die from prolonged exposure, but assuming the exposure isn't prolonged to the point of death, he can recover by having the exposure "removed". (Think Kryptonite, for lack of a better term.) So the answer to your first question is both.

Having said that, I did feel like we cheated a bit in Gathering II.

And I would think that if you managed to cut off Oberon's head with an iron sword, he would in fact die... assuming he didn't see it coming and removed his own head to dodge the blow.

Response recorded on February 15, 2007

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Raci writes...

How does Oberon maintain his rule over his Children? So far we've seen that many of them have abilities that could probably kill Oberon like Anubis's ability to manipulate life and death and Puck's ability to rewrite reality or is Oberon just much more powerful than the combined might of his children?

Greg responds...

Than the COMBINED might... no, I doubt it. But do you really think that THAT group could agree on a replacement?

And to address your specific examples, Oberon is clearly more potent than Puck. Puck can't rewrite reality. He can simply send a false vision. SO not the same thing.

And we've seen how rigid Anubis is with his powers.

Response recorded on January 12, 2007

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dph writes...

Could you please list the following events in chronological order:

1)Oberon overthrew Queen Maeve
2)in reference to City of Stone part 4 in the scene where Bodhe says the English rid their land of gargoyles years ago, the point in time in which the English thought they rid themselves of gargoyles
3)Merlin was born
4)Oberon married Titania
5)Atlantis fell
6)Last Member of the Lost Race died
7)Goliath, Angela, Bronx, and Elisa meet Nokkar

Thank you for answering this question.

Greg responds...

5.
3.
1. Although it's Mab in our continuity, not Maeve.
4.
7.

2 & 6 I'm choosing not to reveal at this time.

Response recorded on December 21, 2006

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Brett writes...

How did Anubis die?

Greg responds...

He didn't.

Response recorded on October 23, 2006

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Richard von Heinz writes...

1) Why did the producers of the show go with iron as the general weakness for Oberon's Children when many of them like Raven, Odin or Anubis were figures from mythologies that didn't see iron as a sort of "god kryptonite". In fact the Fenris wolf from norse mythology was able to snap his iron chains and had to be finally chained with a magical one and many of the gods and demons of the Far East didn't seem to have a problem with iron.

2)In relation to the first question why was Oberon the king and lord of the third race that included such beings as Odin and possibly Zeus and other godhead when in the traditional stories he was just a minor king of the fairies or elves?

In general I'm just rather curious why you put so many of the qualities found in fairies and elves such as Oberon and the iron weakness onto mythological figures such as Odin, Coyote or Anasi which in the end from my point of view kind of diminishes the gods.

Greg responds...

1) When combining so many mythologies, certain choices have to be made. Since we were putting a traditional "fairy" figure like Oberon at the top of our feudal pyramid, using iron made sense. I understand your objection, even sympathize with it, but I also don't regret our decision.

2) Well, a short answer is that we wanted to diminish the gods a bit... or put another way, we wanted to create a unifying system for them all. A feudal system. Oberon and Titania got priority, because in general SHAKESPEARE got priority. Titania, as far as I know, is not a traditional figure but an invention of ol' Will's. I've always freely admitted to being a Shakespeare fanatic, so his characters, including Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, Puck, the Weird Sisters, etc. were always going to have featured roles in this series. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference, and I was the guy in charge. That doesn't make me RIGHT in some transcendent sense, just means that I had the right to create the universe I wanted to play in. So I did.

Response recorded on August 24, 2006

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Tyler Durden writes...

In the "Gathering", what are the names of that winged horse and the name of that half man/horse next to Coyote??

Greg responds...

It's been a long time since I've seen the episode. I don't know if we had names for them.

Response recorded on December 05, 2005

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Regarding Oberon

The other day, I was asked a question about sources for Oberon. I didn't know the answer, but I received this e-mail from site moderator, Todd Jensen:

Dear Greg,

In "Ask Greg" today, curousity asked you if there were any other sources besides Shakespeare for Oberon as "king of the faries [sic]". You replied, "Not off the top of my head." I hope that I'm not presuming here in e-mailing you, but I have found at least three works beside "A Midsummer Night's Dream" that portray Oberon in that role, both of which are early enough that they count as "primary sources".

One is a late medieval French work about one of Charlemagne's knights, entitled Huon of Bordeaux (written in the 15th century, and translated into English by a certain Lord Berners in 1548 - early enough, in other words, that Shakespeare could have used it as a source for Oberon). In it, Huon befriends Oberon in his adventures, and the latter becomes Huon's guardian, almost a "fairy godfather". (Oberon is portrayed in it as around three feet tall due to a curse placed upon him in his infancy, and as the son of Julius Caesar and Morgan le Fay!) At the end of the story, Oberon even brings Huon to Avalon and formally abdicates in favor of Huon, declaring him ruler over the "faerie-folk"; a bit of trouble develops, however, when King Arthur arrives at the gathering and protests, saying that if any human should be ruling over Avalon, it should be he himself rather than a relative newcomer like Huon. Oberon angrily tells Arthur that he has chosen Huon for his successor, is not going to change his mind, and even threatens to curse Arthur by transforming him into a werewolf if he doesn't accept it. Huon at this point steps in as a peacemaker, to say that he doesn't think that he could rule Avalon on his own and suggests that he and Arthur act as co-rulers. Oberon and Arthur both agree to this, after which Oberon peacefully dies and Arthur and Huon are crowned in his stead.

Another non-Shakespeare "primary source" involving Oberon is Michael Drayton's Nimphidia, which has Oberon ruling over the "fairies" as well - and wedded here to Queen Mab! (According to the research that I've done on fairy mythology, Titania appears to have been Shakespeare's invention as opposed to a pre-existing legendary figure, though Oberon and Puck both predated him.)

A third is Edmund Spenser's The Faerie Queene, which presents Oberon as the former ruler over "Fairyland", now deceased, with his daughter Gloriana - the Faerie Queene of the title - ruling in his stead. (Gloriana is actually an idealized Elizabeth I, meaning that the Oberon of Spenser would be an idealized Henry VIII.) The poem also includes, incidentally, King Arthur, Merlin, and Talos as on-stage characters.

THANKS, TODD!!!!


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Anonymous writes...

Hey Greg on the portrayal of the children of oberon were you trying to making them as non-human and alien as possible in character or were you just trying to make them more like people who had incredible amounts of power?

Greg responds...

I didn't have that kind of agenda, one way or another. I simply wanted to make them viable and compelling as characters.

Response recorded on July 05, 2005

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curouosity writes...

That you for taking the time to look at this.
I was wondering the following considereing Oberon and the 3rd race:

1. Before the space-spawn invasion, does Oberon know of alien races and go to other worlds or does he not know or not care?

2. Are all of the third race weakened by iron or are some like Anubis and Odin who seem so different from the likes of Puck immune to it?

3. Why is Oberon far more powerful then other memebers of the third race? Is that the only reason he is king?

4. If I understand the weakness to iron correcly, it means any magic shield a fay attmpts to use pure iron would pass through and magic blasts like Oberon demonstrated would be stopped, right? Would these also apply to Odin's lightning bolts or Anubis's ageing attacks?

5. Do you know where it is written(story or other place) that Oberon is king of the faries and the magic's vulnerability to iron? Besides Shakespeare

6. Is Avalon an actual island on Earth Oberon hides with magic or is it in a different reality?

7. What do the third race do on Avalon? Puck seemed to think it would be boring and there does not seem to be alot to do for beings that are so powerful.

Thanks

Greg responds...

1. I'm not aware of him knowing about them at this time.

2. All.

3. It goes a long way toward explaining things. But it combines with heredity.

4. Rules that won't break, can bend.

5. Not off the top of my head.

6. Somewhat other-dimensional. But it is attuned and part of the Earth.

7. It's home. Home can be boring sometimes, but most of us like to hang there.

Response recorded on July 05, 2005

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Francois Ferland writes...

Hello yet another time Greg! Sorry to flood you with questions as of late but keep fate, as I'm running out of things to ask you.

1. This one's simple and concerns the Children of Oberon.

Almost everyone uses Children of Oberon and Fae interchangeably. But after going through the archive for said beings, you once mentionned that Fae (or is it Fey? No one seems to agree on the spelling) are only one particular group of Oberon's Children akin to the Norse or African pantheon.

I'm not really knowledgeable in myths and legends, so could you tell me who the Fey are, with example from the show? I assume (perhaps or should I say probably wrongly) that it simply represents another pantheon, maybe the Anglo-Saxon one (is it Anglo-Saxon if I'm refering to England, Scotland, Ireland and other countries nearby) in which case, Puck, Oberon and Titania might be a part of it, being quite ingrained in English litterature.

But then again, what do I know?

2. This one's not a question but a personal comment, so I can get away with it not being on the same subject :) . It just dawned on me that by creating such a complex and (in itself) realistic universe with Gargoyles, you ran the risk of the viewers not "getting" many of the subtleties of the show, its universe and characters.

With your average TV show, things are often very clear. Heroes, while hardly perfect, are almost always morally right, while bad guys, which are not always purely evil persons, are almost always despisable no matter how they try to justify themselves. You rarely see a character that can't basically be classified as "good" or "evil", or to use more appropriate terms, morally "right" or "wrong".

Also, most of the time, what you see of a character on screen is a pretty accurate representation of who that person is and what they do all the time. So if someone is always seen giving money to the poor and never seen doing anything reprehensible, you assume that person is caring and generous. It never dawns on you that the man in question might actually beat up his wife everyday, because it wouldn't "fit" with the image shown to you. Yet it would not be impossible, as people are known to have very selective values sometimes. He might feel bad for those less fortunate while thinking that "disciplining" his wife is the right thing to do for a husband. Like I said, such is rarely the case, and what is shown is often intended to be representative of the whole truth.

And finally, things are often easily explained in most TV shows. The villain did this because of that, the aliens invaded for such reason, etc.

What am I getting at? That a lot of the questions you get at Ask Greg are due to the above. Although the fans recognize and live the show for its maturity and above-average (and that's putting it lightly) complexity, they fail to realize that things in the Gargoyles universe, just like in real life, don't have easy answers.

The seemingly benign Weird Sisters lost a large part of the popular vote when it seemed all their interventions were geared for the sole purpose of revenge. Yet, you said yourself that the Sisters have many aspects, with vengeance and fate being a part of them. We at first ASSUMED they were completely (or close to) benign, and then we changed our perception to one where they are only after revenge. And yet, like you said, things aren't that simple, and we STILL don't know much about who the Sisters really are. The fate part might play a larger role later on, or they could yet reveal another part of their identity. In the end, they are complex characters who cannot be summed up in a few sentence, which is what most people seem to want.

Oberon is another victim of this. I admit that I too, thought he was a big arrogant jerk, whom Titania manipulated all the time to get what she felt was best for everyone. But like you made me realize, he has a lot of quality, the first being that he cared enough about mortals and how his Children dealt with them to force them out in the real world for a millenium in the hope of them gaining some maturity. And in every story we saw with him, he always ended up being generally fair to most. He isn't perfect (and who is?); is not above pettiness and anger for example. But his behaviour, from his POV, is perfectly acceptable, if not admirable. And there is so much about him we don't know and haven't seen to be able to judge his being accurately. For all we know and despite appearances, Titania might not be THAT more mature than him.

The list goes on and on. People (and I'm guilty of that as well) want easy answers where there are only complex explainations. I hated the concept of Anubis on my first viewing of "Grief" because it seemed at first that all death on Earth were and had always been caused by the guy. It just seemed so cheap, yet I accepted it at face value because it was what was shown at the time (and like I said, we tend to not question things seemingly presented as fact). Now, thanks to you, I know better, with what little you let on about death-gods and their connection to death and such. And just like there's no solid rule as to wether the Children can go against Oberon's law. It depends on all sorts of things, like intent, bending the law itself and people's words and so long and so forth.

In short, thanks for Ask Greg, I've gotten a better perspective on the complexity of the Gargoyles universe. It doesn't mean I'm no longer looking for easy answers, but I understand why you might reply that "there are no easy answers" or "it isn't that simple", because in your mind, that's really the case. Thanks again for your patience and dedication!

Greg responds...

1. The fans took to using the term Fae (spelled variously) as a replacement term for the admittedly awkward "Children of Oberon". Sometimes in answering questions, I have slipped and used the term as well, but I was never comfortable with it. And I'm even less comfortable in trying to define it as a subset of the Children. I haven't researched the subject enough.

2. Thank you for the kind words.

Response recorded on April 26, 2005

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Francois Ferland writes...

Hello again Greg.

I just have a few observations about Oberon and his children.

1. I'll admit to being one of the many people who was very disappointed by the way the Sisters acted in the "Avalon" trilogy. I've read all your explainations in the archive, but although it makes sense and I can accept it on an intellectual level... it still doesn't feel right. I've been asking myself why, and I think I've found an answer or sorts...

I think what was really intriguing about the sisters was the whole mystic surrounding them throughout the series up until the "Avalon" three-parters. They always seemed to have some higher goal in mind, like they were an integral part of destiny (you'll probably say they are, but I meant in a more intentional way). Their words of wisdom when talking to Goliath and friends in "City of stone" were especially touching. They appeared almost like moral guardians of some sort.

When we see them again in "Avalon", we find out their primary motive has been revenge all along. Maybe it wasn't the whole reason for their actions, but it certainly felt like that. And thus, their whole involvement in "City of stone" felt like cruel mindgames and very subtle manipulation.

Hum, you know, maybe the thing that makes it hard to accept is the fact the we, the audience, uncounsciously feel like WE were cheated and manipulated. Like Goliath and the gang, we were fooled from the beginning and we have a hard time accepting the truth, thus we prefer to think that the Sisters' characters were simply cheapened.

The human mind works in mysterious ways...

2. Oberon's children were forbidden by his law from interfering in the affairs of mortals. Those who took on a human form were obviously not a problem, since they were limited by their bodies just like every other mortal. I suppose assuming any other mortal form, like Gargoyle or simply animal, would also be okay.

Of course, a great many actually took on more fantastic forms, like Banshee and Anansi.

I've noticed that most of those we saw never really showed the full extent of magical powers that feys posess, although they often exhibited at least SOME kind of magical abilities.

a) Are they limiting (or customizing) their power in relation to their "character" of the moment, like Banshee having a powerful voice, or Odin having control over the elements? Because since they'd be limiting themselves, they wouldn't really be using "fey magic" against mortals and as such, wouldn't go against Oberon's law.

b) This one's technical, so if you don't feel like answering it, no problem.

You often said that the Third race don't have a true, definite form, being shape-shifters. Of course, some DO have a form they obviously prefer and we tend to associate it with their true form but "that assumption is faulty" as you would say.

I've been thinking about their vulnerability to iron, and how assuming a mortal bodies removes that limitation (as well as any magical power except reverting back). So Anastasia can touch iron but can't do any magic. That's simple. Any other mortal form would do the same.

Now, is it possible for a fey to assume a non-existing form, like Anansi as a giant spider, which would have some innate powers unique to this body (so it would have no other powers except the one of that form and the possibility to change back to "pure fey") while being immune to iron, pretty much like a mortal body?

And if you don't know and don't want to think about it, just say so. I'll understand :)

Greg responds...

1. Totally agree... and that was my intent. I guess I just didn't count on HOW strongly people would feel along those lines... and how they would then translate that into disappointment with our execution. Or maybe we just sucked.

2a. You're assuming that every one of Oberon's Children have the exact same base power that can then translate into anything they choose. That's not the case. Banshee's appearance may or may not be a glamour. But Banshee is Banshee. Banshee isn't some other Oberon's child glamoured and powered as Banshee.

2b. See above. Appearance may be deceiving, but Anansi is Anansi. He is one of Oberon's Children in that form and is thus vulnerable to iron. Now if he shape-shifted himself into a real spider...

Response recorded on April 15, 2005

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Puck Robyne Lover!! writes...

Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.

Greg responds...

I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:

Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.

Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)

Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.

Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".

Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.

Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.

Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.

Response recorded on November 18, 2004

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juan castano writes...

please can you tell me a list of all of oberon's children

Greg responds...

Nope.

Response recorded on October 28, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

How long was the Lady of the Lake living in that lake in Manhattan?

Greg responds...

I don't know that she was living there.

Response recorded on September 30, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Could Anubis really have resurrected the Emir's son if he wanted to? Would it have taken a lot of effort?

Greg responds...

It is unclear whether he could have. The moral imperative NOT to seemed to have made it impossible.

Response recorded on September 28, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Are the Weird Sisters older than Oberon? How about Titania, Odin or the Banshee?

Greg responds...

I'm not going to tie my hands by revealing this stuff now. They're all pretty darn old.

Response recorded on September 22, 2004

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Gir writes...

1) Can any of the fae magically perceive the future (not predict and use magic to change the future) as it will be? e.g. predict the order of lotto numbers 200 consecutive times, not predict and magically set the numbers as such

2) If so do they often exercise such an ability? Why or why not? also, did Mab also perceive her fall?

Greg responds...

1. Some may have precognative ability, though I tend to think it would come with some limitations.

2. I doubt Mab saw it coming.

Response recorded on May 27, 2004

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Gesamtschule/Felix writes...

Who is puck? What kind of craeture is he?

Greg responds...

He's a member of the so-called "Third Race" a.k.a. "Oberon's Children" a.k.a. "The Children of Oberon" a.k.a. "The Fair Folk" a.k.a. "Dark Elves", etc.

Response recorded on March 23, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

1.Are Thor's sons alive? I mean they were said to survive ragnorak.
2.How about Vidar and Vali?
3.What about Odin's wife? Is she alive?

Greg responds...

I'm not going to start rattling off a laundry list of Norse Gods and figures.

I have basic ideas about how Norse mythology fits into the Gargoyles Universe, but I won't pretend I've yet had the opportunity (or need) to go through each and every "character" and figure out where he or she or it is currently hanging.

Response recorded on February 23, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Do Titania and Oberon's two children in any of the traditional stories about the fay?

Greg responds...

It depends what you consider fay-canon, I guess.

Response recorded on February 13, 2004

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Zarok writes...

Does Oberon's law of non-interference in mortal affairs extend to animals? In a previous response you said Anansi's turning the Panther Queen into a human didn't count because she provoked him or words to that effect, which implies that it does but the children are often depicted with animal servants. Odin had Hugin and Munin, Anansi had that army of spiders, or are these some kind of special cases that are the result of some loop hole?

Greg responds...

I'm not sure what I said about the Panther Queen, and you didn't quote me directly. It's also possible (given it' legendary status) that the interaction between her and Anansi pre-dated Oberon's edict.

Having servants is different than slaves. I suppose one could argue the point on pets either way. But my dog seems happy enough, getting food, shelter and affection. Maybe Hugin and Munin feel the same. Maybe the spiders worship Anansi. Maybe Oberon is too arrogant to include animals. Lots o' possibilities here.

Response recorded on January 08, 2004

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Zarok writes...

Here is a question that's being rolling around in my head for a while now. Considering your 'all things are true' policy have you given any thought to how you would approach the 'life after death' aspects of the mythologies you've introduced? I mean did slain Viking warriors really join Odin in Valhalla or mummified Pharaohs join Anubis beyond the western horizon? How would this work in relation to Oberons non-interference edict? I'm not asking you to give me the Gargoyles version of every afterlife myth in existence or even to set out anything in stone, I just want your perspective on the subject that I've been pondering.

Greg responds...

My gut reaction, based on Dante as much as anything, is that people go where their souls truly want to go. Since it's voluntary, though not necessarily consciously so, there's no conflict with Oberon's edict.

Response recorded on January 08, 2004

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Sam writes...

I noticed in the Gathering Part One, a Pegasus was among those that were coming to attend, was there ever a plan to place Pegasus or Unicorns into the series?

Greg responds...

Well, by your own admission we showed a Pegasus in Gathering One. And I believe we showed a unicorn in M.I.A.

Response recorded on August 26, 2003

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Anonymous writes...

1.Are the preferred forms of Puck and the other children of oberon illusions? The reasoning is that you said that when the children of oberon transform they lose their powers so are their preferred forms where they utlize their power illusions?

2.Was the deathworm an illusion/glamour?

Greg responds...

1. No. Transformations, not illusions.
2. No. Ditto.

Response recorded on August 15, 2003

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Anonymous writes...

Does alex or merlin have enough fay blood in them to mate with non-compatible species?

Greg responds...

I'm really not sure I understand the question.

If they transform into another species than they can mate. They have enough "fay blood" to theoretically transform, but it also requires extensive training. And more training for them than for the average Child of Oberon.

Response recorded on July 29, 2003

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seeker writes...

Where do Oberon and his kind come from? Did the just materlize out of nothing, or did they just develop differently then humans or gargolyes, from magick instead of animals if you follow that line of thinking?

Is oberon in charge because he is the most powerful, linage , the oldest, or respect?

Which is the oldest of the three races?

When refered to as a child of Oberon, does that mean that they are just a memeber of the third race and use it in a metaphor sense? Or are they all related to Oberon in some way or another?

In the animated series, both aliens and magick were introduced. Does Oberon and his kind know of aliens and possilbe vist other worlds, could there possible be other beings similar to Oberon on other planets?

Greg responds...

There isn't one question here that hasn't been asked and answered before and is easily accessible in the "Children of Oberon, The" ASK GREG archive. Not one. And yet, here I go again...

1. The Children evolved from creatures of pure magic such as the Will-O-The-Wisp seen in "Pendragon".

2. There is definitely an element of lineage in his leadership role, as he is the son of the previous ruler Mab. But the main reason is power. He managed to depose the powerful Mab. He's the most powerful... as far as we know.

3. As I've said before, I don't know, but I lean toward Gargoyles first, humans second and the Children third.

4. They are not literally Oberon's children and they are not all related to him or even all younger than he is. When Mab was in charge they were all called Mab's children.

5. All things are true. But Oberon's power is tied to the magicks generated by our planet. He'd lose considerable power by traveling offworld.

Response recorded on July 23, 2003

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Aaron writes...

If Oberon were to be killed, or even removed from rulership of Avalon, would the third race be freed from his Law, or not? (I know this seems like a "duh" question, but I thought I'd ask and be sure)

Greg responds...

It depends on who takes over.

Response recorded on June 09, 2003

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Aris Katsaris writes...

Possibly starting a debate...

Galvatron> Umm... "western"-centric because Greg made western deities such as those of the Greeks or the Norse be children of Oberon? Do you think that Athens is somehow located to the *east* of Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Mecca?

I assure you, it's not. :-)

Anyway, the Greeks, Norse, whatever had their deities be finite creatures which began their lives within the universe. There's a difference between that and a supposedly infinite God which *created* the universe. I can imagine the monotheists being upset if they discovered their god was a fay - if The Infinite proved finite, only one of many. But the Norse and the ancient Greeks already believed that there existed many gods. Why be too upset at discovering a couple more they hadn't heard about?

Greg responds...

THANK YOU!!!!

Response recorded on May 29, 2003

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Galvatron writes...

Don't you feel it's alittle bit western centric making the god of the Greeks, Norse and all the other "pagan cultures" Children of Oberon who are no better than the non-corporeal beings of scifi while the God of Judaism, Islam, Christianity is actually the creator of the universe? I mean it's like saying that they're stupid for getting suckered in by the Children while we're smart for actually worshipping the true God.

Greg responds...

Well, first off ALL THE GODS you mentioned are "Western Culture" gods. All of them. So it's hardly Western centric -- beyond the fact that we got more western culture into the show period.

Second, I have never confirmed or denied the existance of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic GOD in the series. I have left that to every individual character and viewer's view of the universe. So I've hardly given the Abrahamist religions priority over the old "pagan cultures".

Finally, not to split hairs, wow, you got me. I've made fictional characters out of the gods of myth. Shocking.

Response recorded on May 29, 2003

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Wingedbeast writes...

Questions regarding three of the Fair Folk

1. After the Wierd Sisters were banished by a simple parlor trick, they rather easily accepted the ARchmage's suggestion for help. Why that as opposed to just using Avalon's magic to destroy the clan?

Why put that much trust in a single human?

Did they even hedge their bets with attempts of their own to remove the clan?

2. When Odin went through his entire deal of getting his eye back, why didn't he, at one point, attempt identifying himself as Odin before threatening a Gargoyle's protectorate? It seems he'd tried everything but the truth before threatening Elisa... and then the truth at the same time, so what really could it have cost him to identify himself before going to threats?

3. While Oberon may have seen himself as being well in the right for wanting to rid Avalon of the mortals, why didn't he think to identify himself as Oberon: Rightful Lord of Avalon? Seems to be pretty much an obvious thing that he may have missed.

Basing this next question on the idea that Avalon wants the humans and Gargoyle clan to remain (or else why bring the world tour group back to Avalon just in time?). Why did Avalon obey Oberon's commands to attack Goliath, Angela, and Gabrial?

Greg responds...

1a. Well, I could say, "Why not?" But the not-quite-as-short answer had to do with their own banishment from the island by Oberon. By becoming "servants" to the Archmage, it enabled them to embark on the island at his command. Otherwise, how do they attack the Magus, et al, when they're forbidden to set foot on the island. There's also a longer answer and a very long answer, but I'm not getting into those now.

1b. They didn't.

1c. They have three plans in play and removing the clan is only a part of each.

2. Chalk it up, as he did, to recent inexperience at dealing with mortals.

3. I believe he did.

3a. That's a big assumption. The Island didn't bring the travellers back. To return to Avalon, the travellers use a spell. In any case, what the island wants and needs, doesn't change the fact that the island is soaked in magical energy, which Oberon is a master at utilizing.

Response recorded on May 22, 2003

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Zelandonii writes...

In the Gargoyle universe, did Ragnarok already happen? Or is Fenrir still waiting for dinner...

Greg responds...

A Ragnarok happenned. Maybe not THE Ragnarok.

Response recorded on May 21, 2003

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Anonymous writes...

What is the true form of the Children of Oberon? Anything close to a Will O Wasps?

Greg responds...

Not particularly. I think of them as more solid than that. But I'm not sure even they know what their true forms are.

Response recorded on May 16, 2003

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Anonymous writes...

Did Oberon and his children invent the gods they were worshipped as or did humans invent them?

Greg responds...

Huh?

If I'm getting your drift, the answer, I guess, is both.

Mostly, Oberon & Co. just were who they were, and various humans began to treat or worship them as gods.

Occasionally, I think it's possible that a culture had a god or two that one of the Children posed as.

Response recorded on May 16, 2003

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Lynati writes...

Why can't I sleep?
I've been up since 7 am yesterday. This just isn't fair.

Getting to the *actual* question...(I've looked through the archives, and haven't seen this one. I apologize if I missed it. And even more so If I've previously asked this question but forgot your response because it was a smart-ass one.)

"All things are true" you say, but I would appreciate it if you would clarify this for me:
In your conception of the gargoyles universe, are all "non-mortal" beings of the Fae race, or do you allow for the existence of anthropomorphic personifications?
(My, you do get a lot of Neil Gaimen inspired questions, don't you?)

[And as Aaron seems to have become lax in his posting of webcomic (and related) links...]
http://pixelscapes.com/sailornothing/

Greg responds...

Well, I hope you've been able to get some sleep since November 9, 2001...

I guess, and I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, I'm not sure how you're defining "anthropomorphic personifications"? How is that different from, say, Anansi or The Stone of Destiny?

Anansi is definitely a "Child of Oberon." Not literally his kid, but one of his race. (Note: he's not Fae, which is not a term from the series. I view the Fae as a subset of the Children. Same with the Norse Pantheon and the Egyptian Pantheon, etc.)

Whereas, the Stone of Destiny is either an enchanted object or a Child of Oberon. I've intentionally left that vague for now.

As you've seen, the New Olympians are, strictly speaking, not Children of Oberon, though they are descended from them. Do they count as anthromorphic personifications?

So, I'm not trying to dodge the answer. I just honestly don't know how to define your terms.

Response recorded on May 14, 2003


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