A Station Eight Fan Web Site


The Phoenix Gate

Ask Greg Archives

REJOINDERS 2005-09 (Sep)

Archive Index

: « First : Displaying #9 - #18 of 38 records. : 10 » : Last » :

Posts Per Page: 1 : 10 : 25 : All :

Bookmark Link




Once AGAIN, I'm wasting my semi-valuable time (and hopefully yours) to bring you the latest update in my attempt to catalogue the most significant characters in the BUFFYVERSE. The first three previous CUMULATIVE updates covered the first, second and third seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. After that, the task became more complicated as Buffy's fourth season aired simultaneously (day for day, literally) with the first season of Angel. Since a normal season of Buffy (the first excepted) consists of 22 episodes, the fourth of Buffy added to the first of Angel totaled 44 episodes, and that seemed too long to wait for an update. So the fourth update took 11 eps from each series. Now, this - our fifth update - completes the tally for Buffy S4 & Angel S1. (I think from now on, I'm only going to do an update at the end of each season, so this one'll have to hold you all over for awhile. And you won't see that mid-season update reflected in the rankings below. Just made life too complicated.)

As you may recall, I've tried to inform this subjective task with an objective formula. I tried, as much as possible, not to allow my knowledge of future events to influence the current standings. Still, I won't deny that subjectives have played a role. It's hard not to take extra notice of a character you know is going to be important later. And ties were broken based entirely on subjective criteria - i.e. my personal preference.

The idea behind a cumulative tally is to mimic the original experience of following the Buffyverse. It's a horse race. Some of the winners and losers are decidedly predictable. Others are a bit surprising - in fact in one specific instance, surprising enough that it's become absolutely clear that my system must be flawed. I've since dreamt up a new system, but it's too late to implement it. Someday, LONG after I've finished this first survey (but ONLY if I prove truly insane), I might just start over and see what the results are with OBJECTIVE SYSTEM 2.0. But for now - assuming you haven't nodded off - you're stuck with system one.

I have a list of ALL the characters that have appeared in both series up to this point. It's so long (including everything from leads to ridiculously minor characters) that I haven't even bothered to count how many there are. But my list of MOST significant currently tops out at 112 characters.

But I think listing the top 40 is both pleasantly traditional… and plenty. Or largely. I just want to note a few characters introduced (or revisited) in this set of episodes, who haven't yet or never will make the top 40, but whom I believe are memorable enough to merit honorable mention.

Starting with…

#111 & 112 - Ilsa & Inga. The Swedish twins that Jonathan is bedding in "Superstar". Sex objects? Sure. But it's a great visual joke.

#110 - Vanessa Brewer Weeks. The Blind Assasin from Angel. She was pretty cool. A Daredevil rip-off, but a cool twist on it.

#106 - Scientist #1. Just giving credit for continuity, in that they used the same actor to play a generic Initiative scientist in multiple episodes.

#105 - Roy. Same deal. You need a college student, why not use Roy, who we've met before?

#103 - Mr. Ward. The Washington Bigwig who shuts down the Initiative.

#102 - Mason. You need a college student, why not use Mason, whom we've met before?

#101 - Colonel George Haviland. The first guy to take charge of the Initiative after Maggie Walsh dies. He's mysteriously replaced in a later episode with a new actor playing a new Colonel serving the exact same function… but I can't resist including him here because he was played by John Saint Ryan, who voiced King Arthur in GARGOYLES.

#97 - Miss Kitty Fantastico. Willow & Tara's kitten. Whatever happened to her?

#91 - Angel's Dad. Seminal, even in death.

#86 - Alanna Gunn. Seminal for Gunn.

#83 - Adam's Follower. A vampire who basically got forgotten.

#82 - Reporter. Again, just some points for consistently using the same person.

#81 - Weatherby. Part of the Watcher Hit Squad that was chasing Faith and crossed over from Buffy to Angel.

#80 - Smith. Ditto.

#78 - Ryan. Little kid with no soul, who was more dangerous than the demon who possessed him. A chilling idea.

#76 - Jeera. Other-dimensional freedom fighter and potential love interest for Angel. I remember thinking she'd reappear some day. But nope.

#71 - Detective Clark - Recurring Buffy Police Detective (second in a series) who made a bit of an impression. Again, I thought we'd see more of this guy, but the idea of the cops of Sunnydale beginning to catch on just never, well, caught on… perhaps because that WAS a semi-important part of the Angel series.

#61 - Holland. Not one of the Senior Partners at Wolfram & Heart, but as close as we get. He'll become more important next season.

#54 - Collins. Head of the Watcher Hit Squad chasing Faith.

#53- David Navitt. Nerdy billionaire on Angel.

#52 - Angleman. The #2 Initiative scientist who gets zombified by Adam.

#49 - Colonel McNamara. The Initiative Colonel who stuck… until he bought the farm.

And before we start, a fond Top 40 farewell to Scott Hope, Deputy Mayor Finch, Whistler, Kendra and Devon.

Abbreviations for previous rankings…
Y1 - Buffy Season 1.
Y2 - Buffy Season 2.
Y3 - Buffy Season 3.
NR - Not Ranked that year.

#40 - Principal Flutie. Y3: 24. Y2: 16. Y1: 9. The original Principal of Sunnydale High is still just hanging on.

#39 - Larry. Y3: 25. Y2: 35. Y1: NR. A former bully, he became one of the White Hats and was killed by the Mayor. Still dead, so he basically peaked last year (while we was still alive), falling 14 slots to 39.

#38 - Ethan Rayne. Y3: 29. Y2: 22. Y1: NR. Giles former friend still looms larger in my memory than his ranking suggests. But he's fallen nine to 38.

#37 - Charles Gunn. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Gunn is #37 with a bullet. Making a big, fast impression in just a few key episodes at the end of the last season of Angel. I'm assuming that they knew they wanted to make him a regular in Season Two, but him getting all the way into the top 40 this quickly came as a surprise.

#36 - Percy. Y3: 26. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Percy, an obnoxious basketball player from Sunnydale High, drops 10 rankings in a year, but is still hanging on to the top 40 thanks to the fact that he humiliated Willow at a Sunnydale U Frat Party. He's still not even vaguely interesting as a character. But he keeps showing up.

#35 - Parker Abrams. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. The second guy that Buffy ever slept with. A real jerk. But he was pretty important this one season.

#34 - The Annointed One. Y3: 19. Y2: 14. Y1: 10. The Master's mini-me drops 15 rankings this season. Odds are after next one, he'll be a mini-memory.

#33 - Mr. Trick. Y3: 18. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. The Mayor's #2 man also drops 15 rankings. Not a good season for early season second bananas.

#32 - Amy. Y3: 27. Y2: 23. Y1: 17. Her continuing appearances as a Rat - including one brief but hilarious transformation back to human, are keeping her in the top 40, but she still falls 15 rankings.

#31 - Lilah Morgan. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. #31 with a bullet for this Wolfram & Hart attorney. She's a comer.

#30 - Willy the Snitch. Y3: 21. Y2: 24. Y1: NR. I thought that maybe Willy was gone for good, but he made one more appearance in a nice Buffy/Riley/Willy scene. He still falls, but only nine rankings. Less precipitous than some.

#29 - Lindsey McDonald. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. #29 with a bullet for this Wolfram & Hart attorney. Another comer. Is it a coincidence that both Lindsey and Lilah have the initials LM?

#28 - Darla. Y3: 23. Y2: 23. Y1: 11. Hard not to slip a bit (5 rankings) when you're a vampire who's been staked. But Darla's poised for a bit of a comeback, as flashbacks and the last Season 1 episode of Angel indicated.

#27 - The Master. Y3: 16. Y2: 13. Y1: 8. Buffy's first Big Bad appeared in a shortened first season, so has fallen (11 rankings) out of the top twenty.

#26 - Adam. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Buffy's latest Big Bad zips past the Master, but not (thankfully) past the Mayor.

#25 - Harmony. Y3: 20. Y2: 26. Y1: 18. Harmony keeps bouncing back and forth. She's dropped five rankings, but she's still up there.

#24 - Jonathan. Y3: 17. Y2: 19. Y1: NR. Jonathan drops seven rankings, but his single appearance this season in "Superstar" was darn memorable.

#23 - Kate Lockley. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Angel's cop friend started out as a potential love interest, but has become something closer to an enemy.

#22 - Graham. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Riley Finn's second best friend climbed this ladder on the basis of screen time, I guess.

#21 - Forrest. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Riley's best buddy at the Initiative and the Fraternity at least has the virtue of being cyber-demonized into a Second Banana.

#20 - Tara. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Tara appropriately climbs halfway up the top 40 in her first season.

#19 - The Mayor. Y3: 14. Y2: 40. Y1: NR. The Mayor loses 5 rankings. Probably the best of the big bads - unless you count Angelus. But it's inevitable with two series to see even major players like him start to fade when they're not appearing over multiple seasons.

#18 - Maggie Walsh. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. But this is just wrong. One of the things that points up a flaw in the system. It's one thing for her to be ahead of Adam. He didn't even show up until WAY into the season. But how does she jump ahead of the Mayor. You figure Maggie & Adam together might equal the Mayor. But no…

#17 - Jenny Calendar. Y3: 13. Y2: 11. Y1: 15. Still maintaining a good number. Made a deep impression.

#16 - Drusilla. Y3: 11. Y2: 8. Dru has fallen five ranks, but she's still way up there.

#15 - Doyle. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. With his midseason death, Doyle's got nowhere to go but down. But I loved this character. He was a blast. And his death really did catch me off guard. His ranking was really helped by Angel having such a small regular cast initially. It gave him a lot of screen time and story points.

#14 - Anya. Y3: 22. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Anya's admirably fills the Cordelia role, but even by the end of Season 3, she's still not a regular. But she's moved up eight rankings over last season.

#13 - Faith. Y3: 10. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Faith loses three rankings due to coma.

#12 - Principal Snyder. Y3: 9. Y2: 10. Y1: 12. Snyder falls three ranks, to equal his season one score. Pretty good for a dead guy, but he was helped by a dream appearance right out of Apocalypse Now.

#11 - Riley Finn. Y3: NR. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Riley just misses entering the top ten. A new regular (hopscotching over Anya).

#10 - Wesley. Y3: 15. Y2: NR. Y1: NR. Wesley's midseason reappearance, joining Angel's small cast allows him to rise 5 rankings.

#9 - Joyce. Y3: 8. Y2: 7. Y1: 7. Joyce has barely appeared this season, but she was so high up that she only lost one rank.

#8 - Spike. Y3: 12. Y2: 9. Y1: NR. Spike jumps 4 ranks, as he becomes a regular.

#7 - Oz. Y3: 7. Y2: 12. Y1: NR. Well, Oz is done, but he's high enough to maintain his ranking. It's all downhill from here. Still, I'm sure he'll remain in the top 40 forever.

#6 - Willow. Y3: 4. Y2: 4. Y1: 4. Maggie was a small hint, but Willow's #6 ranking absolutely DEMONSTRATES that the system is flawed. Of course, we expect Angel, now the lead of his own show, to pass Willow. And I get how Cordelia's position as Angel's Gal Friday on Angel gave her a ton of screen and story time. And Cordy was close enough to Willow, to allow her to pass our young Wicca. But how did Willow fall so far behind in the first place? How is it that she's so far behind Giles and Xander that she's vulnerable to fall two ranks?

#5 - Angel. Y3: 6. Y2: 6. Y1: 6. I'm mildly surprised that even as the Lead of his own show, Angel's still behind Cordelia, his second banana.

#4 - Cordelia. Y3: 5. Y2: 5. Y1: 5. See above. She's #2 in a tiny regular cast.

#3 - Giles. Y3: 2. Y2: 2. Y1: 2. Giles falls one rank. Still the number 3 guy, which is tops, but his Season Four fears that he has no roll in Buffy's life may have a basis in reality.

#2 - Xander. Y3: 3. Y2: 3. Y1: 3. Xander moves past Giles into the #2 spot. This doesn't surprise me… except again as it relates to Willow. How did he pass Giles and Willow doesn't? It's just counter-intuitive.

#1 - Buffy. Y3: 1. Y2: 1. Y1: 1. Duh.

Bookmark Link

Edi writes...

Hey there Greg. First, I wanted to congratulate you for creating such an incredible cartoon. Also, this is my question for you, I know It may have been asked, but I can't help but ask it to the man: <i>What exactly inspired you to create Gargoyles?</i>

Greg responds...

Many things. And I'm going to refer you to our copious archives for many, many more detailed answers.

Response recorded on September 22, 2005

Bookmark Link

Siren writes...

Okay, one more question for now...

I am a fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series. And the more I have read the behind-the-scenes on it, the more I see Joss Whedon, the creator has done a lot more then I thought and I apparentlty have been watching his works longer then I thought. As I have with you as well. I was wondering if you ever worked with him on anything? I know he has jumped around studios for years, even wrote Toy Story and whatnot, so he has been with Disney as well.
Also, have you watched either Buffy or Angel? And if so, what do you think of them?

Greg responds...

I've never worked with or met Joss Whedon, though I'd love to. I'm a HUGE fan.

I'm also a HUGE FAN of Buffy, Angel and Firefly. By now many of you know that I'm working on this strange anal project calculating the top 40 most important characters in the Buffyverse.

And I can't wait to see SERENITY. I'd see it the day it comes out, except that I'll be camping with my son on Catalina Island. So I probably won't see it for a week.

Response recorded on September 22, 2005

Bookmark Link

Siren writes...

I just noticed in the archives, you wrote one Kim Possible. My daughter and I love that show. Could you please tell me the episode's title so I can be on the look out for it?

Greg responds...

I think it was called "Queen Bebe". In any case it's the one with Smashmouth.

Response recorded on September 22, 2005

Bookmark Link

Siren writes...

This isn't a question, but more a comment, perhaps a suggestion. It's unbelievable the amount of people who post what essentially are usless questions. Ones you know they already know and are just trying to be smartass about or one's who are obviously too lazy to look it up for themselves. It annoys me to no end. And I don't want to signal out anyone so I won't list the names or questions they ask, you know who they are and they know who they are. A best example is asking what a certain character's name is. How hard is it to look it up? There are 100s of Gargoyles sites. Have you ever thought about having someone extra to weed through the unimportant and "cute" questions just so you can get to the important ones that serious people really want to know? I think if the person is too lazy to at least make an attempt at finding it out for themselves, then perhaps they shouldn't be posting in the first place. I think if you really want to know something, you look it up first and ask questions later. Not to mention there IS a comment room here, that is pretty much a message boards for fans to discuss the show. Why not ask questions like, "What's the name of the young white haired gargoyle?", there? I think a lot of these people are just out to pull your leg, thinking themselves cute or just so desperatly want attention, they'll take anything they can get. It's just a pet peeve of mine and it wastes time for you and for us, the serious fans and readers. I just wanted to make a small rant. I hope I didn't waste your time. ;-)

Greg responds...

You did a little, actually. But that's okay. I admire the irony.

Anyway, as many of you know, Gore and Todd and I have plans to revise the way we do business on this site, with Todd and maybe a couple other people answering already answered questions.

But Gorebash hasn't had time to implement the new system. Someday, though...

Response recorded on September 22, 2005

Bookmark Link

Greg Guler Responds...

Hey gang...

The other day, I got the following question here...

Audra writes...

Hi Greg,
I was just wondering, how tall is Elisa? I am an 18 year old female and I am pretty tall myself. I am 5'7. And Elisa seems like a tall woman to me. I was wondering if she is as tall as me or taller. Thank you Greg!

I responded...

I don't know. It would be a good question for my CreatureComics.com partner, art director, Greg Guler. I'll ask him.

Here's Greg Guler's response:

Hey guys. Although it's never been figured out in feet
and inches, I figure she has to be at least that tall
in order for her be as tall as she is with Goliath,
and make decent eye contact.
Greg G.

So there you go. You asked Greg, and a Greg answered. All part of the service here and at CreatureComics.com.

Bookmark Link

Siren writes...

Once again, a question about what Titania whispered to Fox. I know you won't answer it directly or indirectly, so far.

So will you take it to your grave? Or will your have it etched on your tombstone? ;-)

Greg responds...

Maybe the former. Definitely not the latter.

Response recorded on September 21, 2005

Bookmark Link

Anonymous writes...

what episode does queen mab appers?

Greg responds...

She doesn't.

Response recorded on September 21, 2005

Bookmark Link

John writes...

Hi Greg,

Uh... I just tripped about this question/awnser... and it really got me thinking...

DTorline@aol.com writes...

Not a question, or a suggestion (really!), just a quick comment. For your example of What Not To Ask (point #2), you use "Asking if Demona tried to assassinate Hitler during World War II". I'd just like to say that based on my knowledge of Demona, she'd've been more likely to have been fighting on his side, assuming she was involved at all.

Greg responds...

No comment.


A REALLY strange thing... Demona, a person who hates humans with all her heart... but can she see behind this and see the maniacs behind it? Hm...

This would also considerate Demona to work with Terrorists just to kill humans randomly...

Frightening thing indeed...

However, I would be interrested in one particular thing: From your knowledge of her character, do you think Demona would be able to work together with such doomed forces??? After all this would help her in her, ergh, "quest", but then again, she HATES humans, so I (with a verry big I) think that she couldn't stand, ergh,... "working" with them...

THX for awnsering and taking the time.
CU, John

Greg responds...

I think Demona's behaviour has proven rife with inconsistencies.

Without getting specific, I could see her sitting out a conflict on the basis that if the humans are killing each other... GREAT!

I could also see her getting involved if she feared that one side was gaining too much power and might pose a threat to her at some point.

I could also see her getting involved "irrationally" because she has "poor impulse control".

And so on...

Response recorded on September 21, 2005

Bookmark Link

Audra writes...

Hi Greg,
I was just wondering, how tall is Elisa? I am an 18 year old female and I am pretty tall myself. I am 5'7. And Elisa seems like a tall woman to me. I was wondering if she is as tall as me or taller. Thank you Greg!

Greg responds...

I don't know. It would be a good question for my CreatureComics.com partner, art director, Greg Guler. I'll ask him.

Response recorded on September 20, 2005

: « First : Displaying #9 - #18 of 38 records. : 10 » : Last » :