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CHRONOLOGY REVISED
In the wake of completing the script to issue #3 of the comic book, I decided to take a careful look at my Gargoyles Timeline.
I wound up doing a whole new draft of the document. (It's now 249 pages long.) I actually incorporated some corrections suggested here at ASK GREG by folks like Aris and Matt and Todd and Kathy. Aris, as a few of you may recall, pointed out an error in my math, that shifted Angela's hatching back to 1058 from 1078. So I fixed that.
Other things have changed as well. BUT NOTHING CANON HAS CHANGED, i.e. nothing has changed from the first 65 episodes of the T.V. series or the first issue of the comic (or the second or third either, frankly -- though you guys haven't seen them yet). Even "The Last" (Team Atlantis episode featuring Demona and on view at Gatherings) is still holding its own. And I didn't change anything just for the sake of changing things -- not even to surprise you despite the spoilers I've already given out.
But some things have changed. So old info currently in the Archives at Ask Greg may or may not be dead on accurate now. But I think the biggest change is that 1058 thing. So nothing too major, change-wise. Lots of new stuff added. Hopefully fun stuff.
Just thought I should let you know.
I believe you've said Arthur had some adventures before the events of "Pendragon", so, I was wondering…
1. When did Goliath & Co. arrive in London and meet Una and Leo (in "M.I.A.")?
2. When did Arthur arrive in London and first meet Griff (in "Pendragon")?
3. What day in 1920 did Goliath travel back to first meet Griff ("M.I.A.")?
1. Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrive in London and first meet Leo and Una on January 23rd, 1996.
2. Arthur arrives in London and first meets Griff on May 19th, 1996.
3. I have not pinpointed a precise date in 1940 for when this took place. (Note, however, that the year is 1940, not 1920.)
One thing I've always wondered is how long Goliath & Co. were on the World Tour; as I near as I can tell, Guardian first contacted Elisa in early to mid December 1995 and the Avalon Quartet arrived back in Manhattan on July 9th, 1996 (Alex's birth date). So,
1. When in 1995 did Guardian arrive in Manhattan, get arrested, meet Elisa and find Goliath?
2a. Was it his first time in New York? 2b. Was it his first time in the U.S.A.?
3. How long did the main events(or 1995 events) of the Avalon series actually take?...It seems like it all happened in one Avalon night (which would be like a week and a half in the real world, right?) from the time Katharine, Guardian and Magus were placing out dinner at sunset to the time Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela left.
4. On what date did Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrive in Wyvern (or the main events of "Shadows of the past" occur)?
1. The Guardian arrives in New York on December 27th, 1995, but it is after midnight on the 28th before Tom and Goliath meet at Belvedere.
2ab. I'm not answering this at this time.
3. The Archmage's first attack on the Avalon Clan is on December 22nd, 1995. Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela leave Avalon for the first time on January 1st, 1996.
4. The quartet arrive in Wyvern on January 1st, 1996. The events of "Shadows.." take place across the night of the 1st and 2nd of January, 1996.
Hope that helps.
Hi Greg I have a couple questions.First off i was wondering have you decided the dates of when Goliath,Elisa,and Xanatos die? Second I'm assumming they die of natural causes like old age right?
I have not pinned down exact dates. And I'm not going to confirm or deny your second question at all.
It's me, again, with a whopper of question.
Will you please list the following events in chronological order:
1)Nokkar arrives on Earth
2)Mayan Sun Amulet is made
3)Last Member of the Lost Race dies.
4)Nokkar's race came into existance
5)The structures in the caverns below where Castle Wyvrn and the various pictures were created/drawn
6)Gargoyles's Spell of Humility was cast
7)New Olympus is founded
8)Puck is born
1. 400 A.D.
2. 990 A.D.
3. I choose not to reveal this now.
4. I have no idea. Long ago. Long before 802 B.C. This is probably the oldest thing on your list.
5. I choose not to reveal this now.
6. 10 A.D.
7. I don't know exactly, but before 3 B.C.
8. Don't know exactly but before 1300 B.C..
1st, I want to give you, Greg Weisman, congrats on making it this far in answering questions.
Can you list all the events on your giant timeline that have occurred on February 2, which happens to my birthday?
Happy belated birthdays, since I'm betting you've had at least a couple of birthdays since this question was submitted.
I'm afraid I currently don't have any events that specifically take place on February 2nd. Sorry.
ok, i really had to research the archives to figure all this out, but that (and the long wait) will be worth it to satisfy my curiosity.
ok, heres some things you've said in the archives (correct any of these if i've gotten them wrong or they have changed):
-1 year in Avalon is 24 years in the real world, so 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world.
-Gargoyle Beasts are mature by age 2 and can mate and lay an egg 10 years after they were hatched.
-besides Boudicca, there is another female and a male beast among the Avalon Clan and they are mates.
-the Avalon Clan hatched in 1078.
1. so, ten years after the Avalon Clan hatched (this would be the year 1318 in the real world) the gargoyle beast pair would have been old enough and in sync with the natural gargoyle cycle to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?
2. if an egg was laid in Avalon in 1318, then ten years later on Avalon in the year 1558 the egg would be in sync with the natural cycle and again and would hatch, is that correct?
3. then ten years later on Avalon, which would be 1798 the gargoyle pair would be in sync again to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?
4 so, just to be clear, when Goliath, Elisa and Bronx arrive on Avalon, not only should there be Boudicca, and the other two beasts, but there should also be the first now mature pup of the beast pair and their second egg, waiting to hatch in 2038. is that correct?
i know the math is kinda crazy, but the way i figured all this out was by saying 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world and just adding from there so:
1078 real world- eggs hatch
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1318 real world- gargoyle beasts mate and lay egg
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1558 real world- egg hatches
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1798 real world- beasts mate again
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
2038 real world- second egg hatches
is all this right? its entirely possible, despite my checking, that i could've goofed up somewhere, so please correct me if i'm wrong on anything.
thanks Greg!
Ugh. God, you're really going to make me do the math, aren't you? Let's start by saying that I'm not confirming that any of this happened. I'm just striving to address your calculations.
1. The natural gargoyle cycle would dictate that an egg would not be layed until 1328. Eggs are layed on even decades. They hatch on odd decades.
2. An egg layed on Avalon in 1328 would hatch in 1578.
3. Moving forward, the next egg would be lain in in 1828.
4. That egg would be waiting to hatch in 2078. Nevertheless, by your calculations, when Goliath and Elisa first arrived on Avalon, there should indeed be a pup that hatched in 1578 and an egg that was laid in 1828.
I swear I haven't seen this answered anywhere, but I can't imagine I'm the first one to be confused by it.
How long did it take Xanatos to move all of Castle Wyvern from Scotland to Manhattan? Did it take longer than one day? If so, was the spell configured to end as soon as the last stone was replaced onto the newly transported castle? Or was the castle continuously rebuilt after Awakening?
If it did not take longer than one day, how was it possible for Xanatos to install all of the 'modern' components in the castle (elevators and vid screens and communications network etc)?
I guess this just boils down to me being confused as to the timeline of Castle Wyvern's transportation.
Thanks!
I don't have the exact date, but the scene you saw, where Xanatos orders Owen to purchase Castle Wyvern, took place sometime in the year 1993.
The Gargoyles wake up on October 4th, 1994.
Thus the purchase, deconstruction, transportation and reconstruction of the castle took a minimum of nine months, and maybe as much as 21 months... even with Xanatos' wealth and connections.
Xanatos, following Demona's advice, was careful not to put the gargoyles in place until everything was ready.
Hi Greg,
I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.
Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.
Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.
I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.
Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...
Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").
Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).
Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.
Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)
Hope that clears it up.
I have a question about Angela:) How old was she when she first appeared on the Avalon series? Just curious:) I appreciate you taking time to look over this and answer:) Thanks:)
I assume you mean "How old was she when she first appeared in 'Avalon, Part One'?"
Angela was biologically 19-years-old.
Although, in fact she was chronologically 917.
When was Bodhe born and when Bodhe died ?
The research I have indicates that Bodhe, a son of Kenneth III, was born in 985 and died in 1058 at the age of 73. To be honest, I've found that different sources often have different dates, so it's hard to be 100% sure. But these, I've decided, are the dates of the Garg-Universe Bodhe.
Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.
I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:
Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.
Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)
Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.
Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.
Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.
Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.
Here's hoping you've got your timeline with you.
In honor of the birth of my first son, could you please share some of the events that have happened in the gargoyles universe on September 10?
Sure. Hold on. I'll be right back.
I literally have just flipped through every page of the timeline. This is the ONLY entry I found for that specific date:
Sunday, September 10th, 1995
The Gargoyles take Maggie back to the Clock Tower, but she flees to Xanatos' Castle after they turn to stone. Elisa and Matt discover that Xanatos owns Gen-U-Tech. After sundown, the Gargoyles awaken and discover Maggie gone. The Gargoyles and Elisa confront the Mutates and Xanatos at the Castle. Although Derek takes the name Talon, Elisa realizes that the Mutate is her brother. Talon and the other Mutates flee.
Congratulations (two years late) on the birth of your son, by the way!
ok on that age thing I messed up, I thinkGoliath is 35, hes 7 ft tall and I don tknow how much he weighs, his wingpsna is 18, would be neat if it was 24 though.
hudson is in his 90's or a 100, hes 6 ft tall, weighs about 1 ton, the rest you can fill me in on
Gargoyles Forever !
The weights sound wrong. I have no comment on the wingspans or heights. (I'm not into numbers.)
And as for the ages, as of what year? Though generally, they sound wrong too.
To answer Anons question, I know some (plz do corrected me if I'm wrong so I can correct myself)
1)Brooklyn - is 19 years young, 6ft tall and wingspan 6 ft, day he weighs about 210 lbs. , night alot more
2)Broadway - 19 years of age, 6 ft tall, wingspan about 16ft, day time weighing in at a even 2 tons, night I don't even wanna think about it.
3)Lex - 19 years old
(I'm a tad bt out of thier age range)
4)Golaith - I think 29 years old
(Within better age range for me, he's just a few older than I)
5)Hudson - Hatced in 878 A.D., you do the math and get back to me on that one.
6)Bronx - not that old at all
7)Demona - If you know that would also help me, because I have no clue and if I'm wrong I don't want her hunting me down.
Gargoyles Forever !
Anonymous asked for the ages at the time they were cursed. So my numbers are more accurate.
And I don't stand by those weights at all. Frankly, I'm not even sure about the wingspans.
As for Demona, she hatched at the same time as Goliath.
I know that the Clan was frozen in stone for 1,000 years, and I am also aware that Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans, but approximately how old was each of the Gargoyles prior to being cursed.
I've answered this before, but...
The first number is the character's actual calendar age. (The second is their approximate human biological equivalent.)
Hudson 116 (58)
Goliath 56 (28)
Trio 36 (18)
Bronx 16 (8)
in the "Avalon", when Magus is talking to Elisa, there is a flashback of Tom and Katherine playing with the young gargoyles. i was curious if you knew how old the gargoyles were in that flashback. do you have in your timeline what year that was?
I do not have a fixed year for that brief flashback assigned in my timeline.
Hi,
I just started watching you show. I really want to see "Hunters Moon". Last nights show was "The Reckoning". Which one comes first.
Reckoning comes before Hunter's Moon.
Since you have updated your timeline since you last answered the question about Angela and Ophelia possibly being "in heat" in 2008 (02-02-00), I thought I would ask that question again since that part of the timeline might have changed.
1)When is the earliest time that Angela and Ophelia could have laid an egg?
2)Will Angela, Ophelia, or both of them be capable of laying an egg in 2008?
The earliest for either is 2008 and, yes, both are potentially capable of laying eggs in that year.
Random question - which is longer (page-length-wise), the Gargoyles Timeline or the Gargoyles Encyclopedia manuscript?
The Timeline, last updated 6/27/01, is currently 221 pages long (not counting all the handwritten margin notes done since then).
The Encyclopedia, last updated 9/16/98, is currently 350 pages long (not counting all the handwritten margin notes done since then).
Hi Greg ,
I wondered if you know where one can
find a chronological listing of
all gargoyles-episodes
Oh, I'm sure I've posted this somewhere.
Try:
DOUBLE JEOPARDY
The (currently) new ramble! Here's my own (which I also posted in the Comment Room).
After watching the "Previously..." recap and hearing Sevarius' mention about cloning, and then seeing the title, I pretty much figured out what the episode was going to be about. Consequently, I kind of knew that the gargoyle on the battlements at Xanatos' place wasn't really Goliath. Still, I was not quite prepared for Thailog, but we'll get to him later on.
The prologue is well written, and does fit in well with the established continuity...except for the date it's given in the computer files. Even allowing that Xanatos did not get released from prison until after Oct. 31, when did Elisa get shot, and how long before she was able to walk on crutches? Still, I'm willing to let it slide. Besides, it was cool how Goliath smashed the robot's head (you can see the red eye-bulb pop out).
The coloring error you saw, Greg, concerning Thailog's arm in the attack on Lex and Broadway, seems to have been corrected in later airings (at least it's black on my tape).
That was one thing that surprised me--seeing the flash in Elisa's windshield NOT being a copy of Goliath, but something with black skin, red eyes, and a white something (hair of course, but I only saw a glimpse).
I was curious as to what Sevarius was doing with the mercenaries, and why he seemed to be stealing from his employer. I think I may have decided to wait until the end to draw any conclusions.
When Owen mentioned the Emir, I remembered THE EDGE. I didn't expect the dude to actually show up in the series (I was still a bit naive (sp?)), and instead thought more along the lines that this would be a running gag in the series. A sort of background business thing that Xanatos would always be dealing with.
It is interesting to see Xanatos in a semi-vengeful attitude. It's just something you're not used to seeing from this guy. I liked hearing the list of his "enemies" for some strange reason. Just nice to know that Xanatos isn't so untouchable.
And Owen even gets to make a couple of digs at Xanatos--not just the one at the end, but the "plan you've neglected to mention" and cryptically referring to Xanatos Enterprises as "a certain large consortium" (sp?).
Even though Goliath laughed maniacally well-enough in ENTER MACBETH, I still got a kick out of Hudson's line. A little nod to the fact that Goliath has a tendency to be...stoic, perhaps.
And then we get another glimpse at Thailog. And he actually managed to look scarier than Goliath, IMHO. Not a bad trick. I hadn't thought until reading the memo that something...unpleasant may have happend to the mercenaries here. This new thought rather intrigues me (in a morbid sort of way).
The Gen-U-Tech traking bracelet makes a reappearance. Gotta love continuity.
Seeing the electronic log of Thailog's creation proved to be quite fascinating for me. Mostly because of the mention of "accelerating (sp?) the normally slow gargoyle growth process." I liked the added explanation here and the nod towards the coloring change. On the whole, it made everything easier to except, and allowed me to sit back and have fun watching the episode develop.
Like many folks, I loved the whole Xanatos-Sevarius confrontation. Neither is really aware of what the other is thinking, but believes they are. And when Sevarius started to cut loose (and then undercut it with the whispered question of his quality of performance) I laughed out loud. That and the look on Xanatos' face are still amusing (vengeful, confused...you see a lot of sides to Xanatos that you normally don't in this episode).
When Goliath finally meets Thailog...I did not expect Thailog to turn out quite the villain he was, despite knowing that he learned everything from Xanatos. Consequently, I was not expecting him to jump Goliath like that. But this made him a lot of fun. And I love the way Thailog sort of hisses out the "s" at the end of "All the old blocks."
When Thailog is talking to Xanatos and Sevarius in the hold of the oil rig, there is a loop of repeated animation that is very noticeable. The odd thing is, the lips actually remain more-or-less in sync with the dialogue.
I love Thailog's lines here. "And waste my life playing 'guardian angel' night after night to a decrepit city, infested with inferior humans?" Just his choice of words says a lot about this guy's outlook on the world. And to this day I keep playing his other line to Goliath in my head from time to time: "I considered caring about you. It took some effort, but I arranged for you to join this party because I planned to share the money with you. But our little...'family reunion' disappointed me, *father*! So I've decided to *hate* you, too." I just love how that throws some of the blame for what happens on Goliath. Man, with this and OUTFOXED, Goliath's been faced with a lot of his shortcomings.
I had no problem with Elisa slipping out of the manacles. I mean, those things weren't like police cuffs that could close in diameter to conform to a prisoner's wrists. Besides, Xanatos' comment was rather fun.
Actually, there were a lot of fun lines in this sequence, and the episode as a whole (of course, they've already been pointed out, so...).
I get a strange kick out of the fact that it's Sevarius who picks up on the idea that could save them all. It's always fun when the villains and heroes wind up on the same side for some reason.
Something I find very interesting whenever I watch this episode: when Elisa and Xanatos think Goliath might be dead, Xanatos actually moves to comfort Elisa! It's just endlessly fascinating to me that in a potential moment of loss, the proferred shoulder to cry on comes from the antagonist. That's one great thing about this series, character was never subverted for the sake of conforming to traditional "roles."
I actually did think that Thailog had died in the fire. I of course would have regretted it--he was a great character, and Keith David's mannerisms were so distinct from Goliath's that I half-wondered if maybe Thailog was voiced by someone else (a thought I had also had concerning Jim Cummings' differnt sound as Darkwing and Negaduck). However, it wasn't until the "reverse-Xanatos tag" that Thailog took an even greater leap upward in my estimation. Learning that Thailog probably survived and was (in Owen's words) "still out there, has the money, is as powerful as Goliath...and smarter than [Xanatos]." That was one of those "shock" moments, and immediately followed up by "Owen, I think I've created a monster." It felt to me like not only had a new villain been unleashed upon the world, but one greater than any that had come before. I actually like seeing the image of Thailog laughing (although recently, I've wondered what the effect would be if his transparent-face suffused the whole screen).
Rambling on Thailog for a moment--it was great how he moved beyond the stereotypical "evil twin" bit. Although his contrast with Goliath is a very compelling aspect of him, he is not confined to that one dimension. He has the tics that are very much his own, and he manages to assert his independence even more when he takes to wearing the armor.
I know, Greg, that you feel every villain should seem, in "that particular encounter" the hero's unltimate enemy. Still, I can't help but feel that the true rank of "archfiend" seems made for the likes of Thailog.
This is another one of those episodes I really enjoy!
Thanks.
My plans for Season Three would have had Thailog really emerge as the Gargoyles primary antagonist. I really wanted to give him a chance to come into his own. Still do.
As you know, Keith, of course, DID perform both roles. In fact his talent was one of the main inspirations for doing Thailog in the first place.
TIMELINE...
You had questions. Maybe this will clear some of them up. Then again, maybe not.
Friday, October 28th, 1994
Xanatos may anticipate being released by October 31st, the date of his coming pre-trial appearance. [NOTE: The calendar in Xanatos' cell matches neither 1994 nor 1995. It may not even be his.]
Monday, October 31st, 1994
In part, ironically, because both Xanatos and Elisa wish to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos' lawyers and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of receiving stolen property. He is sentenced to six months, including time served, with every possibility that the sentence will be reduced in three months for good behavior.
Tuesday, November 15th, 1994
Owen acquires a DNA sample from Goliath.
Friday, November 18th, 1994
Elisa is shot.
Tuesday, January 3rd, 1995
Elisa is on crutches when Macbeth first attacks castle.
Wednesday, January 4th, 1995
Xanatos is released from prison. Goes home to the castle first. And then stops by Gen-U-Tech.
Hope that helps.
Gargoyles Chronology
I was curious as to the fact if you had ever posted your Master Timeline online, or intended to in the near future?
I have not, and have no intention to do so.
Aside from the sheer size of the document (221 pages), I have some vague hopes of publishing it someday.
In the gargoyles universe;
What year did Atlantis sink?
What was the cause of it sinking?
My timeline says:
"9386 B.C. Atlantis is destroyed. (Date approximate.)"
I think it's interesting how specific that approximate date is.
As for the cause, I'm not ready to reveal that at this time.
If given the chance to revive the Gargoyles series, what role would you personally give to these mostly underused and/or underrated characters:
1. Fang- My favorite character, I wonder if he would be given the chance to become one of the typical " one-liner spitting good guy with bad attitude" character (something I would like) or become a mayor villain.
2. Maria Chavez- Would she ever meet the gargoyles?
3. Claw
4. Wolf
5. Delilah
Also, I would like to know how old Talon, Maggie, Claw and Fang are.
What follows is not meant to be all-inclusive, but just a sampling of my plans...
1. Fang was destined to join "BAD GUYS". That is he was forced to either join Bad Guys or serve a life sentence in prison. He chose the former. For more info on BAD GUYS see the Bad Guys Archive here at ASK GREG, or come to next year's GATHERING in Montreal to see the Bad Guys' story reel for yourself.
2. Ever's a long time. But I had no immediate plans to change either her position or her role within the show. We would have learned more about her home life though, including her daughter.
3. Claw would have remained a mainstay in the Labyrinth, though he also would likely have guest-starred in BAD GUYS.
4. Wolf would have joined the Ultra-Pack.
5. Delilah would also have remained in the Labyrinth. She and Goliath would attempt to "date", but it wouldn't work out.
Finally, my timeline shows the following birth years:
Claw - 1954
Fang - 1968
Talon - 1970
Maggie - 1975
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