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OCTOBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 24th...
1994
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
1996
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
OCTOBER 23
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 23rd...
1996
Just before dawn, Elisa and the gargoyles rescue a subway train full of passengers (including Brendan and Margot) from a street gang. That morning, Captain Chavez temporarily reassigns Elisa to the dayshift and partners her with Detective Jason Conover. Elisa and Jason are immediately attracted to each other. Together, they prevent thieves from stealing containers of D/I-7 from a Xanatos warehouse. That evening, Dominique Destine hires Robyn Corey as her personal assistant at Nightstone Unlimited and discovers that the thieves she hired failed to acquire the D/I-7. That night, Matt questions Xanatos about the D/I-7 and learns it is a potent but theoretically harmless disinfectant. After Matt leaves, WVRN reporter Jon Carter questions Xanatos about the gargoyles. Meanwhile, Elisa tells the gargoyles about her day with Jason. She asks for their help, and they agree to watch over the two locations where the D/I-7 is stored.
Charisma82 writes...
Hey! I was reading up on the episode Hunter's Moon part 3 last night on GargWiki and when I was reading the part about Broadway giving Elisa a lift to where Goliath was fighting the hunters, I started wondering about something. Why was it that Broadway was the one to take Elisa and not one of the other gargoyles? I have some ideas on why it was him and not one of the others, like the fact that he and Elisa are somewhat closer than she is with the other members of the trio, and if she asked him to take her, he probably would. I also wondered why not Brooklyn since he's the leader while Goliath is gone, and then I thought that since he is the leader, he wouldn't want to go against Goliath's wishes. But I want to know what your reason was for having Broadway take Elisa, and not just me guessing at it. Now that starts me thinking on which of the gargoyles thought it was okay for Broadway to take Elisa and which ones didn't agree that it was the right thing to do. Do you think any of them were against them going, which would be going against Goliath's command? Could you please shed some light on this for me?
Thank you for your time and all that you do.
-Charisma82
Greg responds...
I guess I could, but frankly I don't think I should. This isn't some big secret, but I think we're all better served letting what exists stand on its own, leaving it to your (pretty valid as far as I'm concerned) interpretation.
OCTOBER 13
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 13th...
1996
When Demona refuses to allow Thailog to kill Angela, he reveals an additional clone: Delilah, created from a combination of Demona and Elisa's DNA. Demona frees Talon, Goliath and the clan. They manage to recapture Fang and take down the clones. But while fighting each other, Demona and Thailog seemingly perish in a fire. Talon offers to take the other clones back to the Labyrinth where he promises to teach them to think for themselves.
OCTOBER 7
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 7th...
1994
Xanatos used the data on the disks to activate his Steel Clan Robots, which he and Demona immediately set against the gargoyles. The attempt is ultimately futile; the robots are destroyed. Demona, however, gets the drop on Goliath. She reveals her name and her complicity with Castle Wyvern's Captain of the Guard. Elisa prevents Demona from killing Goliath. And Goliath once again saves Elisa's life. Demona disappears. Xanatos is arrested and thrown in jail, initially on multiple felony charges that include grand theft and industrial espionage. Due to his wealth and international connections, he is considered a flight risk and held without bail. Repair work begins immediately to restore all damage to the castle.
OCTOBER 6
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 6th...
1994
Elisa discovers that gargoyles turn to stone during the day. She's forced to lead the Commandos away from a stone Goliath in order to protect him. She then waits by his side throughout the day, cementing their friendship. That night the Trio takes the names Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington and gives Bronx his name as well. Xanatos then reunites Goliath with Demona. Together, Demona and Xanatos convince Goliath and the clan to "retrieve" the computer disks from Cyberbiotics. Goliath and Demona attack Cyberbiotics' airship The Fortress-1, costing Vinnie his Cyberbiotics' security job in the process. The gargoyles are successful in recovering the disks. But the Cyberbiotics Underground Base (under the leadership of the Cyberbiotics Commander) is badly damaged by Hudson and Bronx. And Goliath grows disconcerted with the changes in Demona, particularly after she causes the destruction of Fortress-1. Elisa is able to convince Goliath that Xanatos has been using him, revealing that the disks were actually Cyberbiotics' property and that the Commandos were working for Xanatos.
OCTOBER 5
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 5th...
1994
Elisa investigates, encountering first Owen, then Xanatos, then Bronx and finally Goliath. Frightened at seeing a live gargoyle for the first time, she backs away and falls off the building. Goliath saves her life, introduces her to the rest of the clan and agrees to meet her the next night. Early that morning, Xanatos asks Goliath's help to get his disks back. Goliath is reluctant to help. And unbeknownst to him, Xanatos and Demona are planning something. That night, the Trio leaves the castle to explore the city and accidentally trashes the motorcycle of a man named Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson keep the rendezvous with Elisa, who more or less gives Hudson his name. Hudson retreats to the castle with Bronx - where they discover television and lounge chairs. Meanwhile, Goliath and Elisa rescue an ungrateful Margot Yale and Brendan Quarters from muggers, before being attacked in Central Park by the Commandos from the night before.
OCTOBER 4
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 4th...
1994
The final touches on the castle are completed. It now sits atop the Eyrie Building, high "above the clouds", thus fulfilling the condition of the Magus' spell. The Magus' curse is broken, and Goliath, Hudson, the Trio and Bronx awaken to a brave new world. Minutes later, a group of Commandos attack and seem to steal three disks from Xanatos. This attracts the attention of New York City Police Detective Elisa Maza. Elisa also meets Officer Morgan for the first time.
1995
The werefox is first sighted in Manhattan.
OCTOBER 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 2nd...
1995
In anticipation of Halloween, Elisa helps the Trio order costumes through the mail. Broadway chooses a detective costume. Brooklyn, a pirate. Lex, a pilot.
SEPTEMBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 28th...
994
Tom, Mary and other refugees are given shelter from rampaging Vikings at Castle Wyvern.
995
Michaelmas Eve. Tom and the Magus get the eggs out of Edinburgh Castle. Finella drugs Constantine so that Katharine can escape, and flees with the Princess, Tom, Mary, the Magus and the eggs. The Magus brings them all to the mystic island of Avalon. He is forced to battle the Weird Sisters to achieve the island. He turns them into owls but is unable to take the Grimorum with him. Finella and Mary agree to take the book and keep it safe from Constantine. They depart. Katharine, Tom and the Magus land on Avalon with the eggs. The two time-traveling Archmages witness all this and rescue the Weird Sisters from their owl-state. The Archmages and the Sisters form an alliance. They agree to meet again in the year 1020.
1963
Vinnie Grigori is born in New York.
1980
In Paris, Demona steals the Praying Gargoyle statue from Notre Dame Cathedral. Confronted by Charles Canmore, the Hunter, she kills him and escapes. Canmore's children, Jason, Robyn and Jon swear vengeance.
1995
At midnight, Demona uses Titania's Mirror to summon Puck. They turn Elisa and all the humans in Manhattan into gargoyles and vice versa. The situation is soon reversed, but Puck arranges it so that Demona is human during the day and a gargoyle at night. Fox contacts Preston Vogel, inducing him to betray her father Halcyon Renard.
1996
Xanatos and his robots track Coldstone down in the Himalayas and disable him.
SEPTEMBER 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 27th...
1995
Despite Goliath and Elisa's efforts, Demona acquires Titania's Mirror from the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
SEPTEMBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 24th...
1995
Hudson washes ashore and is helped by author Jeffrey Robbins. Robbins realizes Hudson is illiterate and convinces him that he isn't too old to learn to read. After sunrise, Macbeth finds Hudson frozen in stone outside Robbins' place. Macbeth takes the scroll. The gargoyles attack Macbeth's Mansion to rescue Broadway and recover the Scrolls. But Macbeth loses interest in the Scrolls when he discovers they aren't Merlin's spellbooks. He allows the gargoyles to depart with them. Goliath returns the Scrolls to Elisa, who delivers them to the Museum. Hudson and Broadway immediately begin learning to read. Robbins starts work on a new book, The Sword and the Staff: A Book of Merlin.
SEPTEMBER 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 20th...
1995
Coldstone's repairs are completed. He is reactivated and attacks the Goldencup building, where he downloads government defense specs and is infected by a potent computer virus. Elisa and Matt are called in to deal with the situation using R.E.C.A.P. Lexington and Goliath accompany them and reunite with Coldstone. All are initially unaware that multiple personas (Othello, Desdemona, Iago and David Xanatos' programming) are vying for control of Coldstone's body. Coldstone flees to Ellis Island, and Goliath enters his mind to sort out the trouble. Meanwhile, Xanatos takes delivery on another batch of Steel Clan Robots from Scarab Corp.
SEPTEMBER 11
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 11th...
1995
The gargoyles and Elisa return to the Clock Tower, while back at the Eyrie Building, Xanatos and Sevarius, who had only faked his death, discuss the success of their plan. Later that day, the Metropolitan Museum of Art announces a forthcoming new medieval exhibit: "Titania's Treasures". Demona immediately begins planning to steal Titania's Mirror.
SEPTEMBER 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 10th...
1995
The gargoyles take Maggie back to the Clock Tower, but she flees to Xanatos after they turn to stone. Elisa and Matt discover that Xanatos owns Gen-U-Tech. After sundown, the gargoyles awaken and discover Maggie gone. The gargoyles and Elisa confront the Mutates and Xanatos at the Eyrie Building. Although Derek takes the name Talon, Elisa realizes that the Mutate is her brother. Talon and the other Mutates flee.
SEPTEMBER 8
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 8th...
1995
Derek and Xanatos confront Sevarius at Gen-U-Tech. Sevarius reveals that he has been testing his mutagenic formula on three human test subjects. Xanatos threatens to shut down the project. Sevarius shoots Derek with a dart filled with the mutagen. Derek begins to mutate. Elisa and Matt question Sevarius but find nothing concrete.
SEPTEMBER 7
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 7th...
1995
Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smyth discover The Scrolls of Merlin in Wales. Elisa confronts Derek about missing the previous Sunday's family dinner. He promises to contact her if he has any trouble with Xanatos. That night, Maggie the Cat is allowed to "escape" from Gen-U-Tech Systems. Brooklyn & Broadway find her and try to help, but she is more frightened of the gargoyles than her pursuers. She is recaptured and taken back to Gen-U-Tech. Owen later informs Xanatos and Derek of unusual expense reports coming out of Gen-U-Tech.
1996
The Illuminati make contact with the Canmore family of Hunters, seeking an alliance. Jason turns them down.
SEPTEMBER 6
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 6th...
1995
Fox is granted an expedited parole hearing at the request of grateful prison authorities. She receives an early parole and is reunited with Xanatos. Matt is certified to operate R.E.C.A.P. Elisa tells Lexington about R.E.C.A.P. Coldstone's self-repair systems are activated by Xanatos.
Derek writes...
Why didn't Thailog just make a clone of Demona? He's not attracted to Elisa, you made it clear Goliath and Elisa was more spiritual. Was he just looking to piss Demona off?
Greg responds...
Even assuming that Goliath is not physically attracted to Elisa -- which is NOT something I've "made clear" as I disagree with that premise -- what does that have to do with Thailog?
But, yeah, pissing Demona off was a bonus.
aubrey writes...
could goliath and elisa have a child naturally with the help of science
Greg responds...
Perhaps with a LOT of science... Sevarius-style.
Derek writes...
Hi Greg
I was just wondering why Thailog didn't clone Angela, i know Demona didn't release the bug when she watching her but even still if he could get Eliza's dna without her knowing he could do the same for Angela. If he was expecting Demona to betray him anyway even with Delilah he was at a one "man" disadvantage from a tactical point of view it just would have made more sense for Thailog to clone Angela too.
Greg responds...
When would he have gotten Angela's DNA?
You can pinpoint EXACTLY when he got Elisa's, BTW, if you watch the episode carefully.
SPOILERS
Of course, NOW he has everyone's DNA, everyone in the Manhattan Clan, that is.
AUGUST 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 3rd...
1996
Brod attacks Dracon in prison. But, the gargoyles help Elisa take down Brod, Dracon and most of their men. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower, by which time Goliath, Hudson and Bronx have also returned. The Trio apologizes to Angela for their behavior. She forgives each of them with a peck on the cheek - just before the sun rises. Elisa's operation is a phenomenal success. Jack Dane, Pal Joey, Glasses and many other Brod and Dracon operatives are incarcerated. Dracon and Brod are even forced to share a cell.
AUGUST 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 2nd...
1996
Hudson destroys the battle-axe that tied Hakon to the Earth plane, permanently banishing the Viking's spirit. Goliath then defeats Wolf but gets hit in the face by a banana cream pie fired by Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson don't make it back to the Clock Tower before sunrise. Neither does Bronx, who's having his own adventure. Meanwhile, Brod attacks Glasses' chop shop with the help of Jack Dane and "Salli". But the raid is aborted when the police show up. Salli is knocked unconscious and witnesses very little that Elisa could testify to later. Angela and the Trio stumble into the situation, but the boys are too busy fighting over Angela to be of any help. After sunrise, Glasses visits Dracon in prison. Dracon orders Glasses to retaliate against Brod. Just before sundown, Matt brings Brod and Salli in for questioning. Salli slips away to the Clock Tower, where she reveals herself as Elisa and enlists the gargoyles' help. Salli then confers with Maria Chavez, and they agree to keep the undercover operation running for a while longer, despite the chop shop debacle. While Brod is at the police station, Dracon's men hit Brod operations all over town and even firebomb his favorite restaurant. Glasses also puts word out on the street that Dracon has a trainload of weapons coming in. Brod decides to steal the weapons. He attacks the train with Salli, but is ambushed by Glasses, Pal Joey and the rest of Dracon's men. The gargoyles intervene, but the Trio's competitiveness nearly gets Lex and Angela killed. Brod escapes again.
JULY 15
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 15th...
1996
The Manhattan Clan imprisons Demona in the Labyrinth and agrees to help Talon and the Mutates guard her and Fang. Angela takes the first watch. Elisa is bitten by a robotic mosquito that samples her DNA. Demona regains consciousness in her cell. Angela introduces herself.
JULY 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 10th...
1996
Owen reveals himself as Puck but also fails to stop Oberon. It is Fox herself who saves the day by revealing a magical power even she did not know she possessed. Goliath convinces Oberon to allow Alexander to stay with his parents. Puck is chosen as Alex's tutor. But his powers are stripped from him save when he is training or protecting the boy, and he is eternally banished from Avalon. He reverts to Owen. Oberon arranges for Manhattan to awaken at dawn, and he and Titania return to Avalon. Xanatos vows to repay Goliath for helping to save Alexander. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower. The sun rises. They turn to stone. And the city awakens. Elisa goes back to work. Chavez is less than thrilled about her six-month absence. Fortunately for Elisa, Chavez is in the middle of a turf war between the Brod and Dracon organized crime factions. Chavez needs a new face to infiltrate Brod's men. Because Elisa has been "out of town," she's the perfect choice to go undercover. Elisa will pose as "Salli", bringing Brod information about a Dracon chop shop operation being run by Dracon's lieutenant, Glasses.
Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...
Still reserving anything overall commentwise until issue 5 comes out, but there's a question I keep coming back to and that is Elisa's costume choice as Jasmine, considering she was planning on going with Goliath initially.
Thematically, I'm sure there's some symbolism tied into that choice and I love the thoughts several have shared here.
But part of me wonders why not Esmeralda from NOTRE DAME as that was the Disney movie of Summer 1996? Or did she boycott it due to the comic portrayal of gargoyles?
I know that's probably setup to a smartass answer but I'm ok with that.
Greg responds...
Too much pressure to come up with a funny smartass response.
I just think that Elisa probably had the Jasmine costume in mind for some time... Also, she spent most of the summer traveling the world, so she may have missed that movie.
Todd Jensen writes...
I know that you're not that fond of questions involving "The Goliath Chronicles", but this is something that I thought I should mention here anyway.
One of the episodes of "The Goliath Chronicles" (it was the one involving Taurus and Proteus in New York) has gained particular notoriety among "Gargoyles" fans because the animators somehow made Elisa resemble Jasmine from "Aladdin". As a result, I found it amusing when, in #4 of the new comic, you had Elisa going to the masquerade party as Jasmine.
Given your past comments on the Goliath Chronicles and how you don't even remember them that clearly, I doubt that you deliberately intended that as an in-joke; also, it makes sense that Elisa would choose that costume because in the previous Halloween party in "Gargoyles", she'd gone as another Disney heroine (Belle from "Beauty and the Beast"). But I still thought that I should mention the additional level of meaning that I'd gotten out of her costume choice to you.
Greg responds...
All things are true.
Wesley Nichols writes...
You mentioned in earlier posts that Goliath and Elisa will have Children of their own through adoption and would be parents to the Children of the Clan. Would most of these Children be human? Most Gargoyle Clans are too small to give up their eggs for adoption and most clans are now dead so will they adopt mostly human children? I had originally thought that Tachi and Nashville would count as parents, but you mentioned that Goliath and the others would be considered Rookery Aunts and Uncles, because they did not take part in the procreation of the Hatchlings.
Greg responds...
I never said through adoption. I never said children. I never said human. I never said gargoyle. I'm confident that I've been most reticent on this topic. That's not going to change anytime soon.
JUNE 11
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
June 11th...
1996
Nokkar captures Bronx and Angela. Meanwhile, Elisa is found by Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smyth. They take her back to their hotel, where she is examined by Doctor Arnada. Goliath finds her, but when Elisa fails to recognize him, Goliath is forced to kidnap her. Nokkar intervenes again, capturing Goliath and explaining his interpretation of events to Elisa. Nevertheless, Elisa (though still without her memories) comes to believe in Goliath. She helps rescue the gargoyles from Nokkar and is eventually able to convince him that her friends are not servants of the Space Spawn. She also encourages Nokkar to befriend Duane, Morwood-Smyth and Arnada. The travelers depart Easter Island, and Goliath just manages to cast the spell that will send them back to Avalon before the sun rises. When they arrive on the mystic island, it is already night. Nevertheless, it takes a few hours before Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken. During this time, Elisa's memory returns.
JUNE 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
June 10th...
1996
Elisa, who had been working throughout the Avalonian day to help Jade and Turquesa transplant the rain forest's flora, rejoins Goliath, Angela and Bronx on the skiff. They depart Avalon again and Elisa falls asleep en route to their new landing: Easter Island. While Goliath and Angela explore, Elisa is taken into custody by Nokkar, an alien sentinel based on Easter Island, who has mistaken the gargoyles for a hostile alien invasion force. When Elisa tries to explain that the gargoyles are her friends, Nokkar assumes Elisa has been brainwashed. He wipes her mind clean, temporarily giving her amnesia. Then he sets her free.
Chip writes...
AAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Thailog Stabbed Goliath!
Okay Okay, I had to start that way since I started my last review that way. No titles this time, we just jump straight into the story, which is cool with me. We've got Billy and Susan and a young Terry Chung (Which says to me that New Olympians is still a few years away, alas.)
BTW on a side note why does Billy and Susan's Mom let her kids dress up as convicted felons?
Hah! I figured that Hudson was off to see Robbins, and the panel with Gilly and Bronx lying by the fire just made me squeal with delight (where's Frank Welker when you need him?) It also make me wonder about that Adventure that you said that Bronx went on with Cagney during the events of Vendettas/Turf.
I think Robbins is going to figure out Hudson's little secret if he hasn't already.
Angela as Dorothy, quite apropriate symbolism there. Angela is still not quite used to New York life, (but she's learning fast)
I find it creepy that Lex is dressed exactly as he was in Puck's "Future Tense" world. I also get the feeling that I usually get when foreshadowing is involved...Or maybe I'm just paranoid. Yeah that's it.
"Move Girl" Talon yelled "Moving!" the [Labyrinth New Girl-Whose-Name-you-haven't-revealed-to-us-yet-which-isn't-a-big-deal-since-names-don't-matter-much-to-gargoyles] said moving out of the way hastily.
I'm not sure why, but that scene made me grin, and I gotta wonder, the clones may have been programed as 'robots', but they aren't. How did they feel turning on the Labyrinth residents who've been so good to them.
36-2. Something tells me we have a big-wig here.
BTW (Again) Elisa as Jasmine this year. Does Elisa just like the Disney Princesses? Going as Aurora next year? I think Elisa would make a nice Mulan.
Poor Morgan.
Owen has his own army. Why am I not surprised ;)
And the Climactic moment...Thailog stabs Goliath. Will he make it to surise. (I thing that this marks the first moment that Goliath has actually bled since the pilot episode)
Can't wait for issue #5
Greg responds...
Elisa does like Disney animated movies. At least she did in the 90s.
And kids dress up as all sorts of horrible things on Halloween.
Purplegoldfish writes...
Now you can't get rid of me...
So, watching through my tapes of the later episodes, and I just watched "The Green," one of my favorite world tour eps.
I remember when I first saw the scene after Goliath's and Elisa's argument, when Goliath turns around to glare at Elisa, and thinking 'What was that all about?'
I never felt he did that because he was simply angry at her for her point of view. All the other arguments that we've seen the two get into usually ended with either him agreeing with her, or just shrugging her off (or screaming in her face heh)-typical male ;)
So the way Goliath just stops in his tracks and slowly and deliberately turns to stare at her for a good five or six seconds suggests more to it-as if a realization about her just hit him.
So here's my theory: I think it just kind of hits Goliath how human Elisa really is. There's not just physical differences, but cultural ones as well. He realizes they're going to clash on many things because of their respective instincts and upbringings. Maybe he's thinking of his growing feelings for her-perhaps there's some human prejudice mixed in with those feelings as well-as if he realizes their vast differences and wishes for a moment that she were born a gargoyle and not a human.
And the way Elisa looks back at him suggests that she probably knows what he's thinking and is most likely sharing those same thoughts.
So am I on the right track or totally off?
Greg responds...
Well, I don't agree with your premise. I don't think that's even vaguely an angry look.
Kaylle writes...
Way back in October 2005, the day they released the cover art for the second DVD set, I watched a bunch of episodes instead of doing my homework and typed up my musings on them (mostly on Hunter's Moon and the Goliath/Elisa relationship) in my livejournal. Today I'm *still* trying to avoid my homework, and the queue is open again, so I thought I'd dig up those old musings and get your opinion on them (I may have posted something like this in the CR once as well; my apologies if you happened to catch it there). So here they are. I wrote:
"At the end of HM3, Elisa and Goliath finally get some "resolution" to their relationship. The infamous kiss it took us (and them) 65 episodes to get to. I hate to call it resolution at all because it doesn't really resolve anything; their relationship is still in a pretty uncertain place and kissing hardly changes that. But it's the first time they both admit what's going on between them and do something, however small, about it. And it provided some small measure of satisfaction for the fans, who were just beginning to realize that was all we were going to get. I remember being so hopeful, so excited, 13 years old, watching in awe as finally, *finally* the two of them "got together." I hadn't realized it was the season finale, although really it was pretty obvious (I didn't know cartoon shows *had* season finales). And I certainly hadn't realized it was, for all intents and purposes, the end." [Of course, I know now what I didn't know in October 2005-- it wasn't the end! We have a comic book!]
"But I digress. Anyway, I noticed two things today. First, in HM1, during the scene on the subway: after he dispatches the muggers, Elisa goes to Goliath, lays her head down on his chest, and says, "Nobody messes with my best friend." I always thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to say in public, although sweet. But I noticed today the way that Goliath reacts to it. Maybe I never noticed before, or maybe I just don't remember, but he reaches to touch her hair and then stops himself, grimaces, and pulls away. It happens so quickly it's easy to miss it. But something about that aborted gesture of affection really intrigues me.
"Did he stop because he thought she wouldn't appreciate the sentiment? Haven't we seen him touch her that way before? It's hard to remember because the two of them get so very few explicitly affectionate moments. There aren't a lot of episodes that deal with them. (The most obvious is The Mirror, but that was so long before this that it's hard to use it as an indication of their relationship now. Although there is that moment, while Demona and Puck are spying on them via the mirror, when Elisa sort of nuzzles her face into Goliath's shoulder. I'd love to know what the conversation was that led her to do *that*...) Their relationship is very clear to the viewer, but it's also very understated. Any romantic moments like that are part of some larger scene, some larger conversation, etc. (I was half-convinced, when I was a kid, that it was because Disney didn't want to deal with the xenophilia aspect. Now I can see that it's in character for them to act that way; both of them know what's going on but they can't admit it, can't act on it because they're certain there's no future in it. But when you're 12-13 years old you miss some of the subtler points <g>.) So, while I can think of romantic moments between Goliath and Demona, MacBeth and Gruoch, etc, Goliath and Elisa are much more subtle than that.
"So then I went picking through episodes looking for Goliath/Elisa moments. (Aren't they cute in Eye of the Beholder, dancing in their Halloween 'costumes'? Even the trio notices. "They should have Halloween more often.") As early as Awakenings 5, we see Elisa take his face in her hands. The closest embrace I can find is in Heritage, after Elisa's disappearance. They both look pretty happy to see each other there, and she doesn't show any reluctance to touch him or be held by him.
"So anyway, it could be because he thinks she won't appreciate the gesture. She has shied away from discussing their relationship in the past. Or it could be because they're in a train full of people (although, again, she's pretty much given them away to everyone on the train already).
"Or it could be because he doesn't want to let himself touch her? Because letting himself caress her hair (the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss, even if Elisa doesn't necessarily know that) means pretending, if only for a moment, that they have a relationship? And because he can't stand doing that to himself over and over again? Something to think about, anyway.
"The other thing that I noticed was that, although Goliath saw Elisa kiss Jason and heard what she said about her feelings, she doesn't know that. As far as she knows, nothing between them has changed since HM1. Obviously they're both happy to see each other after Jason rescues her (although Goliath is probably "happier" than Elisa is; at least, she didn't think he was dead). But nothing has happened, to her knowledge, to bring things between them to a head. So why does she finally decide to admit her feelings to him? Her dialogue doesn't really tell us anything, either. He says, "So... Things have come full circle," and Elisa replies, "Somehow, they always do. You know how I feel about you, right?" She brings it up apropos of nothing. (He doesn't seem startled by it, either. Why is that? I sure as heck was!)
"Is it her relationship with Jason? The realization that, even when presented with someone human who seems to be everything she's looking for (at least at first), she still wants Goliath? When offered the normal life she thinks she wants, she still chooses Goliath and the clan, and all the uncertainty and upheaval they imply. Is that it? Of course, they've had a traumatic couple of days, and that could be a reason all by itself."
At that point I decided that I'd spent way too much time analyzing things and that I really ought to be doing work, so I stopped. But I'm still intrigued by it all. I guess if I had to distill it down into a few questions, they would be:
1) Is there a reason for Goliath's gesture (or lack thereof) on the train, or am I thinking too hard/paying too much attention to tiny details?
2) Does Elisa know that touching hair is the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss? (Maybe not in so many words, since I doubt the gargoyles think of it in terms of how their gestures of affection are equivalent to human gestures, but does she realize the sort of underlying meaning of a touch like that?) And if so, how does she know? Just from observation and intuition? Did someone tell her?
3) Why does Elisa finally speak up at the end of HM3? What changes her mind about keeping quiet?
Thanks for listening to me ramble on a bit, and for taking the time to answer our questions. It's only out of love that we analyze every aspect of things :)
Greg responds...
1. I think all your thoughts are right on target, and the gesture (or lack thereoff) was certainly intentional on our part.
2. She does by now, yes. Whether she did then... I'd have to look again.
3. Events. Momentum. Passion. Change. Or whatever you decide.
I liked your ramble, btw.
Rachel N. writes...
Hello, Greg.
One of my favorite episodes of Gargoyles is "Eye of the Beholder" (from Season 2). Whose idea was it to have Elisa wear Belle's gold ballgown as her Halloween costume? Was it your idea? Are you a fan of Disney's Beauty & the Beast?
Greg responds...
I think it was my idea, but it was so long ago, I'm not entirely sure. And, sure I'm a fan. But the point is that Elisa's a fan.
Audra writes...
Hi Greg,
I just got comic #3 in the mail yesterday, and after reading it, I'm very excited! I'm so happy to have new Gargoyle stories written by you. For many years I have told my friends how I miss Gargoyles so so much... And when I say that, I meant new stories.
The art in comic #3 I think more like the TV show then the first two. (And I think it looks great!) I was quite surprised by what happened with Goliath and Elisa though. For some reason, I never thought Elisa would do that. Especially after Hunter's Moon. I don't know, I guess I am just a hopeless romantic, heh. But I guess I can't really relate to Elisa. I don't care so much about having kids, and having the normal family life... But it's important to me to be love with someone who loves me. I am in a long distance relationship, and have been for almost two years. I love my boyfriend so much and even though our relationship is hard because he lives on the other side of the world, I wouldn't change it for anything. (We see each other a few times a year, and he will be moving here after next year, but that's besides the point) I guess I just felt like Goliath and Elisa's love was strong enough to over come anything, but I guess not... Or at least, Elisa is not thinking of that at that moment... I really look forward to more comics, and I really want to know what happens with Goliath and Elisa... I'm so happy though about these comics being made!
Greg responds...
Stay tuned... or, uh, stay turning the pages... or poised to turn pages...
You get the idea.
The last word on Goliath & Elisa has not -- and I think this comes as no spoiler -- been written yet.
Charisma82 writes...
Hey! I've wanted to do rambles on all the gargoyles' episodes, and have only gotten around to the first one. So I wouldn't forget anything, I wrote my ramble as I watched the episode instead of summing it all up and highlighting certain things. I did the same thing with the Gargoyles Comic Book #3: Invitation Only. I went through page by page and wrote about each one. I did this so I wouldn't forget anything. So, since it is kinda long, here are the first 12 pages.
Gargoyles: Clan-Building
Part Three: Invitation Only
Part 1 Pages 1-12
Page 1: At first glance, I thought that the invitation on the table had been sent to Washington and that I was looking at the president's desk, or something like that, until I looked at the next page. I really like the mask next to the invitation. I also like how Alexander's name was included on the invitation. I wonder what he'll be doing while his parents are at their party. Will he be with them or somewhere else… (I'm not lingering off here to sound mysterious, I just didn't know what else to put).
Page 2: I love Alexander's costume. I also like the quote, "Sure, Manhattan may be infested with real monsters, but it's not like the beasties can talk, right?" People are really trying to make them look like horrible monsters, and to do that, they make them look unintelligent and degrade them. But then again, how many of these people have really met one?
Page 3: I like that Matt is in charge of the taskforce and not Elisa. It gives him a bigger role to play and it doesn't make Elisa look like the biggest Gargoyle fan out there. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's better to lay low and not have stupid people ruining her life because they know she's a gargoyle lover (talking about the average Joe out there who wants to vandalize stuff and needs a good reason to do so). I also like being introduced to new characters. I hope to see more of the new detectives.
Page 4: I like Morgan's line, "Uh, detective… I mean… Elisa…" It's weird to hear his voice in my head say her name, cause he's always calling her detective. I was also I bit weirded out with him asking Elisa out. I just can't see the 2 of them together or thinking that Morgan has a thing for her. I always saw him as an older mentor type to her. Him actually calling it a date made it even… well… weirder.
Page 5: I love this page. Matt totally distrusts Hacker, and acts like he'd rather stick his head in a trashcan instead of talk to him. He also acts disgusted with him. It's all good. I like how Hacker makes Matt use their code when Matt could've done without it. "Formalities must be observed." Matt's face is priceless when Hacker puts his arm around him. I should probably mention something about Hacker's speech about the world not being ready to have gargoyle and humans together yet, just to set myself up for when I mention his other speeches with Xanatos and Castaway. Well… I guess I just mentioned it.
Page 6: It's good to see Jason again. I miss not hearing his voice; it's a good thing I've got it stored up in my head. I didn't expect to see him handcuffed to his bead. I find it almost humorous, handcuffing a paralyzed guy to his bed. But then again, he's full of surprises. His conversation with Elisa is typical. He still holds a spark for her and she's second-guessing her relationship with Goliath. It had to come up eventually. It's also pretty clear that he doesn't want to see Elisa with a gargoyle. There's still some dislike going on there for the species, I think. I do hope that Jason finds someone else though. He deserves a second chance.
Page 7: More breaking out of stone. It's funny to see Elisa trying not to get hit with stone. It's interesting to see Angela and Broadway holding hands now. They don't seem worried to show that they like each other. I also like Brooklyn's look over from the corner.
Page 8: You can see more of Angela's naiveté here with her not knowing much about Halloween. Elisa looks reluctant to speak with Goliath, but goes on with it and confronts him.
Page 9: What a teaser! What did the gargoyles decide to dress up as? I can't wait to find out in the next comic. I really don't like that Brooklyn is folding his wings underneath his arms now. Is that going to be a new permanent thing? Are you trying to distinguish his look by doing this? It just doesn't look right. I like the hint at where Hudson and Bronx are going to be going. All I have to say is that I hope they are going where I think they're going. I also like how Lex is still weary of Fox. After Broadway tells Angela that no one will know that they are gargoyles, her follow up question is a good one. "And that's a good thing?"
Page 10: Now to the more emotional page. Goliath is taken off guard and backs away when Elisa says that their feelings "are not enough." She makes a good point. How can Goliath argue with her reasoning? The line, "Goliath, I want children…" was a big hit on him, I think. He is actually speechless after this.
Page 11: Again with Hacker and his "formalities". More number stuff. I like the up close looks on Hacker and Xanatos' faces when they give their numbers. Xanatos is as calm as ever and Hacker looks about the same. I had to go back and look at Matt's face when he said his number on page 5. He looks annoyed. Anyways, back to page 11. Hacker looks funny with the mask on his face. It's also interesting to hear Xanatos speak of a "phase one." Him and his plans and phases. Too bad Xanatos can't go to his party. I guess he won't be playing host.
Page 12: I almost missed this page and went right to page 13. It's a good thing I went back and looked. More of Hacker's teasing lies. He says one thing to Matt, and another to Xanatos. Exactly when is he telling the truth? Who knows except you, Greg? Xanatos seems to tolerate this guy. I get the feeling he doesn't like him much, though. It's just the way he talks to him.
Okay, so there's my ramble on the first half of the 3rd comic book. Hope you didn't fall asleep or anything like that.
Thank you for your time, your patience, and a great comic book.
-Charisma82
Greg responds...
I don't see Morgan as a mentor to Elisa -- after all, Elisa had already made detective the first time they met in Awakenings -- just someone she thought of as a friend and co-worker. But I think there are hints in the tv series that Morgan may have other feelings for Elisa.
Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...
Forgive me if this is in the archives and I couldn't come up with the right keywords. Is Goliath the first thing Elisa's ever had in the way of a serious relationship? Between the fact we know she was very job focused from the beginning, and the heavy amount of almost childlike naivete in how she describes her dreams to Goliath in Issue 3, I'm inclined to think that this is the case that she's never been anywhere near a balanced work-life relationship before. But I'm not certain.
Greg responds...
I guess it depends how one defines "serious relationship". I don't think she's ever been engaged to be married in the past. But she's had a serious boyfriend or three. Guys she was in love with. But I think she'd be redefining for herself what "love" meant now that she knows Goliath.
Maria writes...
If Goliath and Elisa had chidren what would they name them?
Greg responds...
I have no response to this question. Sorry.
Liz writes...
I've been a fan of Gargoyles since the show first came out, and that hasn't changed. I know Broadway and Angela end up together, but early on I got the impression that Broadway sort of had a crush on Elisa. (IE, showing up randomly at her place to grab a meal or watch a movie, and so on) Was that in any way true, or was my thirteen-year-old self just reading too much into it at the time?
Greg responds...
I think Broadway really liked Elisa -- and appreciated her... uh... feminine influence. But I don't think he ever had a sexual interest in her.
Makhasu writes...
Who does Demona hate most: Goliath, Macbeth, or Elisa?
Greg responds...
I feel like I've answered this already. But even if I haven't... Why quantify something unquantifiable.
But if I had to guess, I'd say Elisa.
Makhasu writes...
What does Elisa think of Delilah? It must be pretty disconcerting to know there's a clone of her and Demona.
Greg responds...
As of issue #2 of the comic book, Elisa hasn't seen Delilah in person. But knowing someone like Delilah exists is probably disconcerting enough.
JJ Gregarius writes...
Another thought about Bonkers...
At one point here, you said
By the way, the Miranda/ Bonkers relationship was a clear precedent for Elisa/Goliath. (Doesn't that seem strange?)
Yes, that seems extremely strange, given some of the more salient aspects of the Elisa/Goliath relationship. Could you elaborate on what you meant? Are you just talking about pairing up a human female lead with a non-human male lead in crime-fighting stories?
Perhaps one day I'll have a bona-fide Gargoyles question to ask here.
Until then, JJ signing off.
P.S. Here's hoping the Gargoyles comics are thriving by the time you read this.
Greg responds...
I'm hoping they're thriving too. It's hard for me to tell.
Anyway, yes, that's all I meant. A human female cop fighting crime with an inhuman (but very human) male "partner".
Nothing romantic going on between Bonkers and Miranda. Bonkers only has eyes for Fawn.
Blaise writes...
THE GATHERING, PART ONE
Hey Greg! Good to see you rambling again. I'm going to have to do a little mini-marathon to catch up, so without further ado....
When this episode first aired I had figured that this would be the ep when the Travelers (finally) got back to home base and the rest of the regular cast. I, for one, was looking forward to this, if for no other reason than to see more of my favorite character (Brooklyn).
Seeing the Gathering on Avalon was a nice little "curtain call" for the many supernatural beings the Travelers had encountered on the World Tour. Other than those we had met, Nought definitely had the most striking design (it also helped that he was pretty well featured for a walk-on).
I agree with you about Anubis--he should not be laughing. That part never seemed quite right to me.
It amuses me how, when the Banshee and Odin are fighting, Oberon at first enjoys the action immensely, but as soon as his mirror is nearly damaged he calls an end.
I may be alone in this, but I don't feel too sorry for the Banshee--she was a bit of a pain.
Selene (sp?) is in full fury mode here (I love her eagerness in offering to hunt down Puck).
I also enjoy Princess Katharine's reaction to Oberon contacting her magically.
I've always wondered what Renard thinks of Petros Xanatos. I'd imagine that they might have got along well enough, despite Renard's enmity towards David.
I hadn't figured out Titania and Anastasia were one and the same until Anastasia started talking. Only here did I recognize them as both having the same voice actress and draw the connection.
Of course I didn't get the Owen/Puck connection (or refused to--I'll explain later).
I, too, loved Vogel's reaction to Petros' question about him being related to Owen (an honest question if you ask me).
The child is born. And (for those of us who read the credits of FUTURE TENSE) we already knew his name (and what he'd probably look like all grown up).
Watching the bit with the jogger pouring out his drink after his "hallucination" this last time, I felt myself thinking that, while it's a nice old gag, I'd kind of like to see it with a new twist. For example, instead of pouring out the offending substance, after seeing the supposed hallucination, the subject instead smiles and starts chugging it.
The hypnotized guard is funny. The late Charles Hallahan did a great job with both that and Travis Marshall's snide "...both of them ex-convicts..." line. Great copy and great performance.
The confrontation in the Xanatos' bedroom was very well done. Oberon's reaction to Fox being Titania's daughter is, of course, a high point, but there are smaller things that stand out to me as well. Seeing a young and healthy Renard is a plus, and I love that Fox visibly reacts to seeing Xanatos' gun behind his back (it's small and if your attention is on Xanatos you wouldn't notice it).
As I was watching this time, I thought about Oberon's lines about how Xanatos should take comfort in having "fought admirably for [his] child against impossible odds," and that they have an hour to say good-bye before he takes Alexander away forever because Oberon is "not without a heart." These lines, looking at the words alone, are essentially making things more painful and frustrating for the Xanatos' (insult to injury, as it were), but Oberon does not intend them that way. He's actually being honest, maybe even paying compliment to them, and (in his own mind) is being nice about the whole thing.
In a way it reminds me of Xanatos' line to Derek in THE CAGE--"He's the scientist, you're just the experiment." Xanatos wasn't trying to hurt or insult Derek with that statement, he was just stating the fact of the matter. Similar to Oberon here, the words used by the speaker seem more hurtful than the speaker's intent.
I suppose all this is just a roundabout way of saying Oberon really is Xanatos' comeuppance. :-)
THE TRAVELERS FINALLY COME HOME!!!
Man, I was so happy to have them back on home territory and ready to get back to stories with the rest of the regular cast in their given setting. The World Tour was a nice way to expand and show more gargoyles, but there really is "no place like home."
When Goliath is telling about all the gargoyles around the world he sounds positively giddy. He's even SMILING! Of course he's been smiling since they got back, but here...it's just that seeing Goliath this happy is a bit uncommon.
The Trio of course has their first introduction to Angela...and I kind of suspected this would be the cause of a few waves with them. Three guys and ONE girl…oh, yeah, trouble. The bit with the chocolates is funny, too. And after tasting just ONE chocolate, Angela says, "I think I'm going to like it here." BEHOLD! The power of CHOCOLATE!!
Seeing Goliath and Elisa on her terrace...the first time I watched this, I had already decided that they were going to kiss or something by the end of the season. When G brought E back home, I thought, "This is going to be it!" Then Elisa had to be a party pooper and stop it (and my, wasn't that rain a convenient way of breaking it off).
This latest viewing, I found myself thinking, "...She left her lights on, the electric bill's going to be bad. Wait...how long have they been gone, exactly? It's a miracle she still even HAS her apartment--all the months she wasn't there to pay rent! What, does she pay several months in advance?!" Being a budding actor I have found myself struggling to cover such bills for the past two years, consequently thoughts like that have a tendency to occur to me.
Anastasia/Titania's revelation of herself to the gargoyles was a bit too quick for me, but there's only so much time in the average episode.
I love that the evacuating workers are actually questioning why they're being evacuated (I heard someone mumbling "fire drill"). It's a little detail I like.
The force field surprised me a bit, both because it's something we hadn't really seen before in the series, and because it was actually effective.
I love how Oberon goes from being amused to being pissed off when his magical bolt doesn't break the force field.
Nice effect where his eyes glow green when the lightning flashes.
Seeing Oberon wreak the one car makes me feel sorry for the car's owner (hope the owner's got good insurance). Then he puts everyone in the city to sleep and I start to wonder how many people might die (killed in a car accident, fell asleep while on a ladder or stairs, etc.) because of this. A lot of people are going to be inconvenienced by something they have absolutely no idea about (kind of like Vinnie!).
Oberon's put the city to sleep and both Petros and David Xanatos are in the "war room" with the former asking, "Has the attack begun?" I find that hilarious.
And then Oberon grows up ("Enuk-cha!"). That last shot of his laughing face through the glass of the atrium is great, especially as a cliffhanger.
Here, at the end of my ramble, it's time to talk about Owen. Now, of course he's acting weird but....
Okay, when this ep first aired I watched it with my brother. Now, I was the GARGOYLE nut in my family. My brother and mother thought it was all right and would watch it from time to time, but I was the one who lived, breathed and slept it. So, my bro and I watch this and my bro turns to me and says, "Owen's got to be Puck." And because it was my brother who said this, I disagreed with him. It wasn't that I didn't think it was possible Owen and Puck were the same (in fact, it seemed to me like a distinct and intriguing possibility), but it galled me that my brother (who would NEVER admit to being wrong) would be right about this. The fact that GARGOYLES was MY thing and not his made me more adamant.
Of course, in the end he was actually right...but I can't recall being disappointed about it in this case. It was just too cool of a twist.
On to part two, now....
Greg responds...
One has to assume that by "Night of the Panther" at least, Elisa had made some arrangement to deal with bills and etc.
angel writes...
after hunters moon part 3 is there any more reviling eips on goliath's and Elisa's relationship
Greg responds...
Read the comic, and you'll see the answer is yep!
Idril writes...
Hi i have a question about galith adn elisa. dose xanatose, puck, foxe, macneth, the mutates including derik, the rest of the gargoyles or any one ealse know about Galiths relationship between elisa?
Greg responds...
What's to know? That they like each other? It's not exactly a secret. As to the extent of their feelings... which they've hardly (or at any rate barely) admitted to each other out loud, I think it all depends on how ... intuitive each of the people you listed are and/or how much opportunity they've had to observe Goliath and Elisa together.
I would think that Xanatos, Fox and Puck get it.
The clan, especially Angela and Hudson and Broadway and Bronx and Brooklyn and Lex, get it. (I started out writing Angela only, but as I considered each character, I couldn't find one who didn't get it.)
Macbeth... I don't know. It's not that I don't think he's intuitive, but he just hasn't spent enough quality time with the couple to have the chance to observe. And I think that maybe in "Sanctuary", he might have been distracted and/or a tad self-absorbed.
Mutates... same thing. How much have they seen of Goliath & Elisa together? Derek is, I think, the densest of the four mutates. But I'm not sure any of them have had the observation time to figure it out.
If they try to kill ya u gotta kill them first writes...
Hi, Greg. I know you open these for the gathering thing but i got these questions and comments...ya know, it is a nice oportunity. I would love LOVE going to the Gathering but as i am on the other point of the continent (:P) like, i cannot go... Gargoyles is geting very popular here, in Argentina, but i would want to know if the dvd or the comics are going to be able here? :) so the south people can enjoy gargolyes more?:) Jo, anyway, great show, great story, great characters, great drawings and...great me! hahaha.
Fine, now comments and questinos, if u wanna escape, these is the rigth moment:
Demona is one of the best characters i have ever seen before, and i love the contrast that she has with Magnetto, althougt she is, well, crazy.
I get what feelings the poor Goliath still had for Demona, and what feelings Demona had for Goliath, but the others members of the clan once had a close relaitionship with her as well, like "sister-brothers" "daugther-father". So ( i know about Brooklyn, very expresive the guy) what did feel Broadway and Lexingston about that? I mean, if my sister would get mad and because, let´s say, a dog kill someone she loves, now she would be trying to destroy all the dogs of the world:S i would be really...sad?.
It´s the same with Hudson, he ´d seen Demona since her most tender infance, looking her grown up from that little hatchling to that powerfull and nobel warrior she once was. Actually, he was her father. So same question, what did cross his mind every time he see her then in the new millenium? It must be very frustrating.And as we are with him, if Demona was part of the clan no more, they would still be like a daugther and a father, by teorical terms?
And Elisa, she is such a nice person! But althougth all the times Demona has tried to hurt her, Elisa seems to get more anger whenever Xanatos or Tony Dracon tryes something than when Demona does. Why is that she react so "professional" when is Demona who "pops-up" ?
Tempation: Jo, great episode however not the best.
Nice detail: i LOVE that posture of Demona after Brooklyn tryed to take the book away from her for the first time: leaning against the wall, huging the arcanorum as it would be Goliath him-self (XD)looking lunatically from the shadows. It was then when i thougth: something happened to these girl!.
To think: Gargoyles can really keep a groudge for a long time, and not just Demona but then Lexingston and now Brook, c´mon people, let it go!.
I think Demona wasn´t really lieng to Brooklyn...yes she screw it up, but i think she really has a point. Always she has that nasty point of view that makes you think " fuck, she is no so wrong".
Long way to morning: It´s great if you want to see scared things but, i really didn´t like the Demona of the past in these one, she acts very similar to the present, not exactly but...she was nasty.
Reawaking: I love these one, how the clan learns that the people is important and no the place where the people is, how they got more "civilizated". very nice lesson.
The mirror: It´s the first time someone subdue demona in how much time? These episode, i think, it´s the only one ( after high noon) in wich Demona appears that i laugh. Awesome, but why did Demona hesitate when Puck asked her what did she want? It´s not the destruction of human race always on her mind?
City of stone: And everything got sense!! I cried at the end :( poor demon. And that make me ask was the humans hate what drive her on the way she was or it was the lonlyness what twist her brain?
High noon: hahahahahahahahahahahaha...GREAT END!! "Why are we working together!?""grrrr"
Avalon: Macbeth and Demona working together...Woaho.
Well that´s all for now. I really REALLY hope you understan all that crap, i did my best to write in pure english(:P)and if you did not... i am really sorry. A last think!! In ascending list: Whoose of these characters she hates most?: Macbeth, the hunters, Goliath, the rest of the clan, Elisa, the rest of human race, Puck, Thailog. Thanks for your time, bye :)
Greg responds...
In the future, numbering your questions would really help me out. Also please avoid using curse-words in this forum. We try to keep it PG.
1. I'm afraid I don't know where the DVDs are available internationally. Have you tried Amazon.com?
2. Broadway and Lex may not have been THAT close to Demona in the Tenth Century. She was too young to be a maternal figure to old to be a Rookery Sister, and perhaps too imposing and/or prickly to be a friend. So her betrayal of the clan, is just that: a betrayal of the clan, not a personal betrayal. Which is not to say that they don't take it personally, cuz I'm sure they do. But they don't feel personally betrayed. Does that make sense?
3. As for Hudson, he is Demona's father. So I think it's much tougher on him. The only saving grace, such as it is, is that I think by the time of the massacre, Hudson had a clearer sense of Demona's true nature. I think deep down the betrayal was less of a shock to him then it was to Goliath. Not that he wasn't surprised. You can see how warmly he greets her in "Awakening, Part Four" when she first resurfaces. But in the end and darkly, I think her role in things saddens but doesn't shock him. I also think he CHOSE to focus his real hatred on Hakon Clan-Slaughterer.
4. I don't know if I agree with your assessment of Elisa vis-a-vis Demona. Certainly Dracon is able to get under Elisa's skin, but I think the thing to keep in mind is that Dracon is HER nemesis. Not Goliath's. Hers. Not that Goliath hasn't been of use there, but Dracon isn't super-human. He's a crook. She's a cop. Dealing with Dracon is HER job. As for Elisa and Demona, I think there are plenty examples of Elisa revealing her true feelings for Demona (in "The Mirror", in "Vows", in "High Noon", etc.) And they aren't without ire. But Elisa didn't lose her clan to Demona. So it's not the same thing.
5. In "The Mirror", Puck had already made the point that he didn't have the power to giver her absolutely anything she wanted, i.e the destruction of the entire human race. So she had to pick a more specific wish. That put her at a brief loss.
6. Loneliness, I believe, was a huge factor in creating the present day Demona. Not the only factor. But a big one.
7. Well, this is a little pointless, but if I have to rank your list, at this time, i.e. as of issue #1 of the comic book, I'd put 'em in this order of hate:
Elisa
Hunters
Thailog
Goliath
Macbeth
human race
rest of clan
Puck
Susan Leonard writes...
Something has always bothered me about the way the clan reacts to Elisa's hysterical sobbing on the hay at the end of the Metamorphosis episode. Why doesn't at least Goliath,who has more than a platonic interest in her at this point, go over to comfort her. The whole episode evolved with Brooklyn wanting to pursue Maggie due to his compassion over what she had gone through. I thought the episode was wonderfully done otherwise. I was despite knowing Xanatos always had some kind of agenda was willing to bite at first when he seemed shocked that Derek became a victim of Sevarius' mutagenic dart.
Greg responds...
I just think it's honest that sometimes big dumb guys (read the entire male population) don't know how to best handle public displays of emotion. We're not culturally trained.
But the other thing to keep in mind is that you're only seeing a fragment. The most dramatic, painful fragment, but a fragment nonetheless. You don't know what came before or after. Did she already tell them to give her a moment alone, and then when she broke down they didn't know how to respond (see above)? Or did Goliath head her way just after the scene ended?
I've been taken to task in the past for answers like this. Told that I was "cheating". That if it wasn't on screen, I can't fall back on the wiggle-room of what might have happened off-screen. But I don't think that's fair. 22 minutes an episode is all I get. (Or 24 pages an issue, which is a lot less, believe me.) I can't possiblly fit the entire range of responses to anything into that time. There MUST be off-screen moments. I go for the big punch on screen, as long as I feel that it's honest and not gratuitous, but there must be more.
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
Suddenly, this came to me: it looks like nobody ever asked this, so, how did Elisa get that amazing car of hers?
Thanks.
Greg responds...
I'm thinking she bought it.
Anonymous writes...
was it planned for elisa and goliath to fall in love
Greg responds...
Yep.
Magus10 writes...
After a few hours of perusing through the archives and "unanswered questions," I think these are questions that haven't been answered yet. If these questions were answered, I apologize. This list of questions will have to do with Elisa Maza.
Knowing that Elisa Maza is half Native American/African American, does she struggle with the duality of being of mixed cultures? If asked the question "what racial aspect she feels more related to?" what would her response be (if any)? As a child, how would being of two different descents affect Elisa?
I've also noticed within the series that she is close to her parents, but gravites towards her father (i.e. "Her Brother's Keeper"). Did something happen in the past to make her gravitate that way or is it "Daddy's little girl" type of thing?
I know the name of the show is "Gargoyles," but I have always been intrigued at the fact that Elisa Maza didn't have strong outside relationships with anyone outside the police force and the gargoyles. Is it because she's too busy on the force? Is it because she's a loner at heart? Was there a plan to have her outside friends/relationships shown within the series?
You've stated before that Elisa has been in romantic relationships. What is her preference towards men? I know that she finds traits exemplified in Goliath as attractive, but this is more of a superficial question and I'm looking for answers that deal with a racial, religious and financial aspects. Yes, I'm horrible.
You've stated earlier that she's bee in romantic relationships, but not to the point of marriage because no one has ever been that close to her -- why is that? There are probably too many influences to state, but I just want to know about the most prominent influences.
There are probably more questions brewing in my head, but I see that you're bogged down already; therefore, all I can do is wish for my questions to be replied someday.
Greg responds...
In the future, numbering your questions would be helpful. I'll divide your questions by paragraph.
2a. I'm sure she struggles a bit.
2b. I think Elisa probably relates to being African-American a bit more than Native American as her mother studies her heritage and her father had (for most of Elisa's life) rejected his. But I don't think she'd respond well to the question, frankly.
2c. I'm not going to use this forum to right a dissertation long answer. I'm sure there was some societal ostracism here and there. Elisa's different. Her ethnic background isn't always immediately obvious from looking at her. This causes some confusion for OTHER people. And that confusion can indeed effect a child. But Elisa was raised in a good home, surrounded by love and a fairly concrete ideal of right and wrong transcending the petty. I think she did fairly well.
3a. Probably a bit of Daddy's little girl. Probably also a natural bent. Elisa is bright, but she's a doer like her father. She didn't follow her mother into acadaemia; she followed her father onto the force. Beth, though choosing to study her Native American heritage, is much more like her mom. Derek is somewhat trapped. He probably would have been better off just following his own path -- to the sky, most likely. Flying was his great passion. But he felt (mostly internal) pressure to follow dad and big sis onto the force. That led to a backlash, which brought him under Xanatos' sway. Now he lives underground.
4a. I'm not sure I agree with your premise here. Elisa had a VERY strong relationship with her family. Plus I think she has friends. The fact that most of those friends are cops, is hardly surprising, since most of us pull our friend pool from our environment. I don't think that Elisa dates much. She would, I think, be very hesitant to date cops or lawyers that she works with. (It's dicey even today for a woman to date co-workers and still be taken seriously.) And she's sure not gonna date perps. And given her schedule, that limits her opportunity to meet people. We happenned to meet her between relationships, but I never thought she NEVER dated. The force does define her a bit. But not entirely.
4b. She's self-sufficient. Which is different. But she has a lot of love to give. And a cat.
4c. Eventually, all things.
5. Racially/ethnically, I don't think she's picky. Her parents' successful marriage; her attraction to Jason, her attraction to Goliath, certainly, indicates she's pretty open. Religiously? I don't know how much that would matter to her either, assuming values were shared. Financially. Well, she wouldn't want to date a bum, i.e. someone who wasn't first self-sufficient as she is. I think she has some traditional values and dreams... again modeled from her own family. But I think those values and dreams are pretty middle/working class, generally.
6. Main one: didn't meet the right guy. Otherwise, see above. She had a goal, a plan. To be a detective for the NYPD. She didn't want anything to stand in the way of that. Then she got there, and meeting eligible guys isn't that easy. Doesn't mean she wasn't looking or even hopeful.
7. Hope you're still around to read these answers.
Jessica Cariaga writes...
Hi Greg,
Does Elisa ever get married??? She is one of my favorite characters. Angela is my most favorite.
Greg responds...
My advice is to start picking up the comic book... In time, all will be revealed there...
Fllay Allster hater AND Kira Yamato hater writes...
Just a comment: I couldn't help to notice that detective Ellen Yin from "The Batman" has the same the color schemes as Elisa Maza.
Greg responds...
I've noticed that too. But I have to assume it's a coincidence. Red, black, blue isn't exactly an exotic choice for either character. I've worked on both series, and certainly, no one on The Batman has ever snuck up to me and whispered, "Ellen's a tribute to Elisa, you know."
snoop g'rgg writes...
Why didn't Xanatos use his power and influence to have Elisa kick off the force or have her kill?
Greg responds...
Why would he do either of those things? What possible motivation would he have? How would that aid his cause AT ALL?
Joey writes...
How did Elisa know how to wake up Sleeping King Arthur in Avalon part 3?
Greg responds...
The Magus filled her in off-camera.
French Kitty writes...
Hi Greg, how are you?
I know that you had a plan for Goliath and Elisa to go on a Halloween double-date. Would this be Elisa's decision? How long after Hunter's Moon III would this have taken place? How long after that would they have decided that that was pointless and become a couple? If the show comes back will this episode be aired?
Thanx, bye! >^-^<
Greg responds...
I won't answer this now, except to say BUY THE COMIC BOOK -- all will be revealed!
Ashley writes...
I've read that Elisa is based of Salli Richardson. i've been wondering since she is, is elisa's skin dark or white? its hard to tell on the tv but it looks white. which is it??? salli's skin is dark so i was wondering. thanks greg!
GARGOYLES FOREVER!
Greg responds...
Elisa's skintone is very similar to Salli's, I think. Though I may not be the best person to judge this. Elisa's mother is African American. Her father is Native American. She gets her skin more from her father, it seems to me. But she was never meant to be caucasian.
Angie writes...
It seemed that Brooklyn was chasing any female that could talk or had wings (maggie and angela)in "The mirror" was he atracted to Elisa as a gargoyle?
Greg responds...
Wasn't everybody?
French Kitty writes...
First of all, I just want to say that Gargoyles is the BEST cartoon series ever made! You and your working crew did an amazing job at bringing it to life.
So, yeah. My question:
Why doesn't Elisa ever change her clothes? I know she changes clothes and her closet is probably filled with a lot of black T-shirts and a lot of blue jeans, but she would have looked great in the outfits from the comics. Or at least something similar.
But nonetheless, I LOVE the show and I am crossing my fingers for more episodes!
I also can't wait for the DVD to come out! I am SOO buying it! Thanx for your time. >^-^<
Greg responds...
Well, she did change her clothes occasionally. La Belle Elisa dress that she wore on Halloween and "Eye of the Beholder". The tough girl outfits she put together for "Protection" and "Turf". The clothes she wore briefly in episodes like "Hunter's Moon, Part One" and "Eye of the Storm". The dress she wore in "The Journey". There may be a couple of more examples that I can't think of at the moment.
The short REALITY answer is that redesigning new clothes for her every episode would have been prohibitively expensive and cause multiple animation errors overseas. So we limited her wardrobe changes to situations where story called for it.
Think of her standard outfit as a dramatic conceit.
Within the show, I just think that's a look she's comfortable with. I pretty much where the same outfit everyday myself. Tennis shoes, jeans and a t-shirt. Of course I don't wear the same t-shirt everyday. I have black t-shirts, white t-shirts, red t-shirts. And most of them have some kind of decal or design on them. But...
Anyway, the plan for the comic book is to start giving her a wider variety of costumes. But we still love that red jacket, blue jeans and black t-shirt. So that won't go away.
Hardwing writes...
Why is Demona is always doing so poorly when she fights against Elisa?
I mean through her 1000 years of experiences in battle she should be a damned good warrior (considering that the Weird Sisters and the Archmage wanted her), so why has she lost against Elisa even in her gargoyle form(Avalon)?
Was it because she was ever such outraged that she became incautious? Or is Elisa truly the better fighter?
Greg responds...
I think that a few factors come into play.
I think that Demona is unaccustomed to fighting in human form, which is why she has difficulty in "High Noon".
I think on Avalon, she was under the Archmage's thrall, which dampened her own skills... as it dampened her free will.
And I think that Demona has an obvious rage problem, and since much of that rage is laser-focused on Elisa specifically, she often lets her anger get the better of her skills.
Also the battles have always been brief, with many distractions and third party interventions.
I think Elisa's pretty tough and savvy, but in any sustained conflict between the two, I'd absolutely put my money on Demona.
kadee writes...
why did u decide to put elisa maza and golith together?
Greg responds...
I might suggest that THEY decided. But beyond that, it was always the plan, from the moment that Goliath entered the development. We never considered any other alternative.
kazz writes...
hey i was wondering why you made elisa kiss galith. does she love him? i havn't seen that episode yet but i want to.
Greg responds...
Yes, she loves him. Though she's barely admitted that to herself, let alone him.
Greg Guler Responds...
Hey gang...
The other day, I got the following question here...
Audra writes...
Hi Greg,
I was just wondering, how tall is Elisa? I am an 18 year old female and I am pretty tall myself. I am 5'7. And Elisa seems like a tall woman to me. I was wondering if she is as tall as me or taller. Thank you Greg!
I responded...
I don't know. It would be a good question for my CreatureComics.com partner, art director, Greg Guler. I'll ask him.
Here's Greg Guler's response:
Hey guys. Although it's never been figured out in feet
and inches, I figure she has to be at least that tall
in order for her be as tall as she is with Goliath,
and make decent eye contact.
Greg G.
So there you go. You asked Greg, and a Greg answered. All part of the service here and at CreatureComics.com.
Audra writes...
Hi Greg,
I was just wondering, how tall is Elisa? I am an 18 year old female and I am pretty tall myself. I am 5'7. And Elisa seems like a tall woman to me. I was wondering if she is as tall as me or taller. Thank you Greg!
Greg responds...
I don't know. It would be a good question for my CreatureComics.com partner, art director, Greg Guler. I'll ask him.
holly writes...
do elisa and goliath ever become a couple?
Greg responds...
You mean they're not now?
Vinnie writes...
Hey Greg, my question is simple how long are the sleeves on Elisa's black shirt? Because I noticed in the episode "The Green" she has short sleeves and in "Sentinel" she has long sleeves in the scenes where Elisa takes off her jacket. This is most likely a typo unless Elisa had time to run home and get a change of clothes. Just thought I would mention it, because unless she was caring a change of clothes with her when they first set out for Avalon or unless she stopped off on the quest to buy a new shirt I don't see how her shirt could change so drasticly.
Greg responds...
I'd say at home, Elisa has both long and short sleeve black t-shirts, but she didn't exactly pack for the trip.
On the other hand, she did have plenty of opportunity to pick up some stuff (say in Paris) and plenty of motivation (you try wearing the same clothes for weeks on end). So maybe she bought a new shirt. Or maybe Princess Katharine sewed it for her on Avalon. (We didn't show it, but the Skiffers stopped back at Avalon between every adventure.)
My point is... if you want to view it as a mistake, be my guest. Congrats. You found one. But if you'd prefer to find an explanation for it, it's not exactly a challenge.
veronica writes...
what's with goliath/elisa?
aren't you going to hook them up?
Greg responds...
SPOILERS:
Eventually.
Todd Jensen writes...
A question about Elisa awakening King Arthur "early". Now, we know that Elisa awakened Arthur ahead of schedule, based on the information given in "Avalon Part Three" and "Pendragon", and that he was apparently originally supposed to be awakened somewhat later and for a different emergency than the Archmage (although we don't know what it was or how far away in time it would be).
What I'm curious about is: has Elisa thereby altered Arthur's destiny? To explain a little more about what I mean, I suppose that I'd better go into a brief "ramble".
We don't know much about the nature of fate or destiny in the Gargoyles Universe (beyond the fact that the Weird Sisters are linked to it, at least when Luna is the dominant one), but we can tell that it exists in some ways (such as Avalon sending people "where they need to be"). I don't know if it's actually supposed to be possible to "alter destiny" in the Gargoyles Universe, beyond the fact that we know that the past can't be altered (as Goliath and Demona have both learned the hard way), but since Elisa came to the Hollow Hill in her own time rather than in the past, her awakening Arthur obviously wouldn't count as changing history in the same way that somebody going back in time to, say, avert the Wyvern Massacre would. However, since the future is part of the time-stream (and I assume that the only 2198 in the Gargoyles Universe is the one where the Space-Spawn show up and take over the planet and there are no alternate 2198s where that event doesn't take place), it doesn't seem so probable that it can be altered.
On the other hand, we do know that carefully-laid plans that were devised, not by God or destiny or something of a transcendent nature, but by humans or gargoyles or the Oberati, can be changed through the actions of others. Demona and the Captain of the Guard's original plans to betray Castle Wyvern, for example, wound up having different results than those that they were expecting, thanks partly to Goliath's decision to only take Hudson with him, partly to Hakon's decision to smash the gargoyles at the castle in spite of the Captain's protests.
So what my real question is, I suppose, is this; was the original "future time" for Arthur's awakening (in which he will not be awakening after all thanks to Elisa) set by God or Fate or something of that nature, or was it set merely by people (as in, the ones who placed him in the Hollow Hill)? Has Elisa genuinely altered Arthur's future, or only altered his future as it was perceived by those who laid him to sleep on Avalon?
Greg responds...
It's a very interesting distinction isn't it? Does Destiny = Future?
Well, I'm thinking no. The future, as you stated, is part of the timestream. Actual events that happened in the future (from some kind of external perspective) are immutable.
But Destiny, to me at least, means something different. Destiny is about potential. It's not about a lock or a guarantee.
Individual characters may be loose with language, but I think that in the Gargoyles Universe, when one says a character is "DESTINED" to do X, what one means is that said character is destined to ATTEMPT X. Doesn't guarantee success. Success relies on a combination of indiviual and circumstance.
So, to your original question, has Elisa altered Arthur's destiny? I'd have to say... "MAYBE!!!!"
I mean actually, I know the answer to that question, but I just don't feel like answering it now. What I mean by "maybe" is that she certainly may have. She may have created a new destiny for him. She may have spoiled plans for the old destiny. And yet he may find his way back to that old destiny. Or what he does accomplish may not be exactly the original destiny, but winds up doing the same thing or sowing seeds for others to reep. Any or all of the above.
Miranda writes...
how old is Elisa?
Greg responds...
By the end of 1996, she was 28. So now in 2005, she's about 36 or 37.
Jessica writes...
Hello Greg!
First of all, I want to thank you for a show that had me hooked from the very first preview. I loved it when it first aired in the mid-nineties, and I think I appreciate it even more now. So....thank you!
I was wondering when you think the guys came to think of Elisa as a part of their clan. I know that it was at least by the time of "The Cage". I realize that that their trust and affection grew along and along, so it probably wasn't, say, the "seventh" time they saved each other's necks that it was official, but do you think that it was something that had to be discussed? Was there an announcment or did it even need to be said?
Greg responds...
I think that by "Her Brother's Keeper" Goliath was already viewing Elisa as part of the clan. Ironically, her role in moving them to the clock tower, a move he strenuously objected to, helped cement her position. His willingness to have Elisa reveal the truth about them to her brother demonstrates that he viewed her -- and thus by extension Derek -- as family.
But I think the final turning point was "The Mirror" and seeing her as a Gargoyle.
But as you noted, the whole thing was a progression. So I'd be open to other interpretations. It's a very good question and I'd be interested in hearing other points of view on the subject.
Chapter L: "The New Olympians"
Time to ramble...
Chapter L: "The New Olympians"
Story Editor: Gary Sperling
Writer: Adam Gilad
Director: Bob Kline
ORIGINS
Well, the Greek Myths of course. But that's not really what I'm talking about. As many of you know, The New Olympians was a concept -- originally created by Bob Kline -- that we began developing at Disney TV Animation even BEFORE Gargoyles. It was definitely a concept that evolved, but it was also a concept that we felt fit nicely into the Gargoyles Universe. So this episode was created as a backdoor pilot. At the time we had big plans for the Gargoyles Universe. Hopes that it would eventually evolve into Disney's equivalent of the Marvel or DC Universe. The World Tour expanded our Universe in many ways -- mostly for the sake of the Gargoyles series itself. But also to demonstrate that our universe had the "chops" to go the distance.
So the New Olympians were imported whole, like Athena from Zeus' head -- into the gargverse. The development for "The New Olympians" series focused on four major characters: Terry, Sphinx, Talos and Taurus. Terry and Sphinx were kept out of this episode on purpose -- so that we'd have fresh faces for the series if it went. Talos has a very minor role. But Taurus took a lead here. Other characters, such as Kiron, Ekidna, Helios, Boreas and, of course, Proteus were also part of the N.O. development. Though again, we left out a bunch of other characters: Xetes, Kalais, Medusa, Jove and Xanatos (yes, Xanatos) so that the whole series didn't become old news, should it get going.
The basic concept of the series, familiar to anyone who's attended a Gathering and seen the original pitch, was Romeo & Juliet. Terry is a human. Sphinx is a New Olympian. They are in love. But their "families" aren't making that love easy. This episode, would in essence be a PREQUEL to that series. Terry hasn't arrived yet. Elisa will help pave the way for Boreas' decision to finally reveal the New Olympians to the human world.
But another important inspiration was the work of Jack Kirby. In my recent ramble on "Eye of the Storm", I commented on how we strove to avoid a Kirbyesque Odin -- and didn't entirely succeed. Here, Kirby was a clear influence. I hope The New Olympians weren't a rip-off, but I can't deny that his Inhumans, his Eternals and his New Gods influenced us -- or me, at least -- when we were creating both New Olympus and our cast of characters.
Creating the cast was also interesting. We basically compiled a list of Greek & Roman myth-figures. Gods. Monsters. Titans. Etc. Then we tried to think about their descendants... Tried to think about which would be the most visually interesting. (A lot of the gods, for example, just look like glorified humans, so we tended to ignore them.) Originally, Kiron had the Taurus role and Medusa had the Sphinx role. But after talking with the artists, we made the double switch, because it was felt that having to animate a centaur and a woman with snaky hair on a regular basis was just inviting difficulties. As with many of these pragmatic decisions, I eventually fell in love with the new version -- and wouldn't want to go back, even if I could be assured of the highest possible animation quality.
In order to import this diverse group into the Gargverse, I posited that these were the descendents of mortals who mated with the Children of Oberon (or Mab). They therefore have incredible abilities and amazing appearances, but they are mortal. Some may have extremely long lives, but they do age. Still, before they left the human world behind, many of the original Olympians were treated as Gods. But some were treated as Monsters. As in Gargoyles, PREJUDICE would be a major theme of the series. In fact, if you look at the PREVIOUSLY of this episode, you'll see that it's fully thematic. All stuff about humans being prejudiced about Gargoyles. That's because we had nothing content-wise that we needed to set up. But if we set-up human prejudice, than it helped forge the twist of prejudice against humans, which Elisa would face in the episode. (I do wish we had thought to include Goliath's line: "Humans fear what they do not understand...")
So the New Olympians fled the Human World. They established a secret island and developed astounding technology... including a cloaking device. (I was always a touch disappointed with all the fog and mist in the opening scene. I wanted the skiff to suddenly be on the open sea, with nothing around for miles. The fog allowed for the notion that something might be hiding BEHIND it. I didn't want that. Still, I think the idea gets across. And the shimmer effect is nice. Plus, I like how Goliath abruptly spreads his wings when he enters it. When my daughter Erin saw the city finally materialize, she said: "Wow!")
OLD LINES IN NEW CONTEXT
Were we just out of dialogue ideas, or were we trying to make a point or an inside joke or something. I'll let you decide...
Goliath: "We cannot wage war against an entire city."
Elisa: "You'll have to do better than that."
VOICE WORK
Michael Dorn wound up playing Taurus and the late Roddy McDowell as Proteus. Dorian Harewood, who was originally cast as Boreas, also wound up playing Talos. But none of these three were our original choices for those rolls. Instead we cast three people who I thought would be perfect for their parts. But none hit it. It was one of our rare recordings that DIDN'T work. So we fell back on Michael to play the very Worf-like Taurus. (This sometimes bothers me as the voice is exactly the same as Coldstone's. But ultimately you go with the best hand you have at the time.) Dorian ended up doing double duty as Talos and was terrific. And of course, Roddy was just brilliant as Proteus.
What's interesting is that Proteus himself is not the greatest actor. Erin noticed... "There's something different in his voice." Of course, it's Keith David PLAYING Proteus playing Goliath. (Which is always fun.) And Keith hits the mark with precision. As does Salli & Michael when they're playing Proteus playing Elisa & Taurus. Sure Proteus always LOOKS the part -- thanks to his shape-shifting abilities. And I suppose he's less of a ham than Sevarius. But he never quite takes the time to truly "inhabit" his roles. Certainly, while playing Elisa and then Goliath, there are a number of small tip-offs in his choice of words that are just wrong. Like can you really imagine Goliath saying: "Who's that guy?" One assumes that his performance as Taurus' dad is equally off the mark.
The walla in the Senate House when Elisa is on trial isn't my favorite. We just didn't get enough coverage, so it repeats and repeats.
PREJUDICE
All of the New Olympians we see are prejudiced. Every one. Some are worse than others. Boreas is well-meaning, but wrong. Taurus is narrow-minded. Talos is, at best, only pragmatic -- not morally outraged by Elisa's treatment. Most of the others are just flat out racists. "New Olympians fear what they don't understand." I'm sure somewhere on the island there were some more enlightened individuals, but we made a point of NOT showing them.
I wanted to do a few things with that theme. (1) Show that prejudice breeds prejudice. The New Olympians have some legitimate grievances against the human race, but they've learned the wrong lessons from their ancient persecution. (2) Of course, we wanted to play the irony of the monsters being afraid of the "Humans of Legend". Elisa tells the Gargoyles to hide when they first land on the island. And she's the one that the New Olympians fear. They have "no quarrel" with the Gargoyles. And the best solution that even Boreas and Taurus can come up with is to "Quarantine" our girl. (3) There was a three. I had it in my head a minute ago. Now, for the life of me, I can't remember what it was.
Maybe it had something to do with Prejudice only truly being able to be attacked one person at a time. I went to an all boys high school. We were all so deathly afraid of being called homosexuals that a culture of homophobia was ingrained into all of us. It wasn't like I was going around gay-bashing. I like to think that even then, I had the sense and the control to stifle my prejudices. But I can't deny I had them -- probably still have them to some extent, unfortunately. Anyway, then I went to college. Acted in a couple plays with a guy I really admired -- both as an actor and as a human being. Became good friends with this guy (who had the amazing name Steve Wraith). THEN I discovered he was gay. By that time, I didn't care. He had personally won me over -- in a slightly less dramatic fashion then how Homer Simpson learned to accept gays after John Waters saved his life. Steve never saved my life, but I'm afraid the metaphor is VERY apt. I haven't seen Steve in twenty years, but I owe him a lot. A few years later my cousin came out. After that, many if not most of my friends came out. My sister. Etc. Steve paved the way to make me a better person. Conceptually, we can all talk about dismissing prejudice, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the only way we really learn is one human being at a time. That's why Goliath vouching for Elisa was ineffective. People are doomed to HAVE to figure things out for themselves. And unfortunately, some never do.
WHO KNEW THESEUS WAS SUCH A BASTARD?
And so we put Taurus through that process. He meets a human. His distaste is palpable. He knows the story of the Minotaur, his ancestor. [Now Theseus is one of my all time favorite characters from Myth. But I couldn't resist flipping the tale of the Labyrinth and telling it, if just for a few seconds, from the Minotaur's point of view.] But Taurus will learn to respect humans - one human at at time. Elisa and Taurus actually have a lot in common. Both are cops. Both have/had fathers who are/were cops. But as Elisa says, he's "got some funny ideas about justice."
Elisa is clearly more enlightened. In part, that may come from her own history. She grew up as a person of color in a largely white society. She's no stranger to prejudice. Being both African-American and Native American, it's possible that she has even faced some rejection from African-Americans and Native Americans as well. Clearly, based on her openness with regards to Goliath and the Gargoyles, she learned her lessons long before we met her. Pretty much from the moment she realized that Goliath could talk -- and was therefore sentient by human standards, she treated him as an equal. I always admired her for that. Unlike the New Olympians, she didn't let the prejudice she faced turn her into a bigot.
Taurus will eventually get the message. His prejudices don't just vanish. But he's learned something.
SOME NEAT MOVES
I like the sequence where Goliath comes to break Elisa out, and Proteus takes advantage of the situation by first turning into Elisa and then Goliath. (When Erin first saw him as Elisa, she said, "Uh oh." which is pretty much exactly what he was going for.
I like how Taurus threatens to fire Helios.
I like how Goliath turns to stone in Proteus' cell.
I like how Elisa takes charge -- and basically FORCES Taurus to partner up with her. She has two tip offs that Proteus is posing as Goliath. First the fact that he didn't turn to stone and blames it on the cloaking device affecting the sun's rays. Of course, Elisa knows that it's not literally the sun that turns a gargoyle to stone. It's his or her biological clock, which is often triggered by sunrise. But the real clincher is Proteus' plan to blow up the Collonadium. Elisa knows Goliath would NEVER do that.
I like when Taurus tries to express his admiration -- and still can't do it without insulting her species. Elisa takes it in stride: "I'll choose to take that as a compliment." Progress is slow.
THE NEW OLYMPIANS
We end the episode with a pretty blatant pitch for giving the New Olympians their own show. It's certainly shameless. But I make no apologies. I still contend that THE NEW OLYMPIANS would make a GREAT t.v. series.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Anonymous writes...
hey greg heres a question. when did goliath found out that he had feelings for elisa?
Greg responds...
I don't think he realized it until "The Mirror". But I think his feelings for her existed as far back as "Awakening".
MOONGAL writes...
You said Elisa and Tony Dracon had a history. What history was this?
Greg responds...
Whoah. I thought September 30th, 2002 would never end.
Anyway, they've had cop/crook encounters in the past. I'm not going to go into the whole story here.
Wingedbeast writes...
Ramble on Golem.
A great episode this.
On the climbing. I've got to say, my favorite Gargoyle shots are of them climbing. It best shows off how animalistic they are and how beautiful they are. It really drives home the "they aren't human" issue. They're creatures of instinct.
And, BTW, when Angela and Bronx are climbing up the tower, that's a great butt shot on Elisa. Gotta say. Elisa rocks. Strong woman that never gives up, protects her friends, has a sense of humor, and has a great butt.
If she's based off of anybody you know, mind introducing me? :)
Onto the rest of the ramble.
Max and Elisa parallel on that huge issue. They're the heroes beside the heroes. The difference is that Elisa started out that way. It's who she is. Considering who her parents are, it might even be an instinctive trait to her.
Max? Max isn't so lucky as to have Elisa's upbringing. He's probably had to learn that lesson that there are some things that are too powerful for him to overcome. So, he has to overcome that fear just to go into his destiny.
Elisa's learned quite the opposite lesson. Even within the series, she's learned that, even though there's always somebody bigger and stronger than she is, that doesn't really matter.
Renard gone mad. Oh come on, like you wouldn't destroy a few things if you got that kind of power. It's like a new toy. You play with it until you're through.
But, when Renard was through with the euphoria of the new toy, he was left with the cost. And, that was a great face shot of the Golem when Renard realized that he had become something. It also made sense that it was Goliath's words that finally got through.
He might, logically, have known that Elisa and Max were right, but he considered Goliath to be an equal. They both share that daily struggle of integrity. And, it's here where Goliath really repayed Renard for his lesson in Outfoxed, and reminded him of the daily struggle that is integrity.
The final fight sequence was something that struck me. 4 different heroes, 4 different styles. Max, the Golem, Goliath, and Elisa. Each very effective.
The first time I saw this, I saw the golem as a robot and Max as the mind behind it. Telling it what to do and, like a good little drone, it does it. Essentially making Max the mind. But, that scene with Brode over the big pit, last time I saw it, changed my mind. Instead of the golem's mind, the golem has it's own mind even if it is a primitive one, Max is the golem's heart.
If there were future episodes with the golem, I could see Max going through efforts to keep the golem from becoming like the monsters that he fights.
Can't wait for the ramble on "The Hound of Ulster"
Greg responds...
Elisa's based on Salli Richardson. She's in the upcoming movie, ANACONDA 2.
Totally agree with your heart/mind assessment, by the way.
Amanda writes...
Hi Greg! I have loved this show since i was 8 and now im 16 and im still watching the reruns! Anyway, i am a New Yorker and I think you did a great job of portraying the City realitically. But-one thing bothers me. In New York there are many precincts and youmade it seem like the only police department in the city was the one Elisa worked in. How come in any of the episodes you never see another precinct?
Greg responds...
We actually made an effort to portray this realistically. Elisa may get involved in investigating crimes that wind up taking her out of her precinct's boundaries, but she doesn't get started investigating crimes that don't begin within those boundaries. (If that's clear.)
Brad676 writes...
Will Goliath and Elsa get further into there relashiship
Greg responds...
Yup.
Talon writes...
Could Elisa have told the chief of police about her brother's condition after Metamorphosis or The Cage?
Greg responds...
Obviously, she could have. But she didn't.
Katalina Darkheart writes...
Hi Greg,
So I guess i'm in a way sort of a...um.."new" fan of gargoyles...i used to watch it all the time when i was younger but i guess i just had other things to do...but i'm watching it again now...way kul show dude...but i wantedto ask you...since i'm new and this is bugging the bejeepers out of me....does Elise Maza and Goliath ever put aside their differences and like wed r something?...i know i shuld continue watching the series....and i will try to watch it as much as i can...but disney likes to rerun them and they're not always in order...and now that i'm older unlike when i was a kid i have more responsibilities such as work and school that keep me from being able to watch it so i'd be extremely grateful if u'd fill me in on that subject...oh and heheh..Happy Birthday...may-b if i send it now it might reach u sometime around there...or if not merry christmas ^.^...heheh...see ya..
Greg responds...
Disney is actually pretty good about airing the episodes in order. Of course, we didn't get to tell all the stories we wanted to. I only worked on 66 episodes and they did 12 more after I left and that's it.
So the short answer is, no, Goliath and Elisa do not get married by the end of the 66 or 78 episodes.
What happens in the future is another story.
The Soulider writes...
In "The Mirror," why did Elisa get her shoes back and none of the other humans-turned-gargoyles get theirs back when the were changed back into humans? And where *did* Elisa'a Jacket go?
Greg responds...
I don't recall everyone else using/losing shoes. I'd have to watch it again. Maybe the other people you saw all transformed before they had their shoes on in the first place? Never put them on, so never got them back.
As for Elisa's jacket... I don't know. I've never known the answer to that one. Magic and Puck's personal aesthetic, perhaps.
Jen writes...
Greg
i was wondering if golitah & elisa ever become a couple
Greg responds...
Have you seen "Hunter's Moon, Part III"?
or said another way...
Define "couple".
Mooncat writes...
Hello Greg,
The subject came up in the Adult comment room on the Gargoyles Fan Website, on wether Goliath and Elisa would ever be able to become mates. Physically.
So the main question is, can they become mates, in a physical sense, without physically harming Elisa?
How well endowed is Goliath (beneath the loin cloth)?
How well endowed are Brooklyn, Broadway, and Lex? Yes, inquiring minds want to know *^_^*. If not exact sizes, some general indication would be appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to consider the question.
Mooncat >^,,^<
and the peeps in
the Adult Gargoyles Comment Room
Greg responds...
I think of Goliath (and all the gargoyles) as being proportional. So that would make him fairly well-endowed by human standards. I have no doubt that Elisa and Goliath could become intimate, but I do have some doubts as to whether they could engage in intercourse without harming Elisa physically. But there are of course, many ways to become intimate short of intercourse.
Kim writes...
Settle a bet, will goliath and elisa ever hook up?
Greg responds...
Define "hook up".
Gipdac writes...
1a) Did Goliath know Jon Canmore and John Castaway were the same person? b) Did Elisa?
Greg responds...
1a. Not at the time of "The Journey".
1b. Ditto.
FanForLife writes...
I was wondering, when exactly did Goliath actually admit to himself consciously that he was in love with Elisa? Actually said to himself, "I love her?" Was it at a specific moment in the series, and if so what scene/episode? Thanks!
Greg responds...
That's a darn good question. I'm sure he hadn't figured it out by "Sentinel". It might, in fact, have been in "Hunter's Moon, Part III" after she returned from the dead. Maybe right after the Praying Gargoyle was smashed. Or maybe after he returned to the castle. It wouldn't surprise me if it was as late as that.
I'd be eager to hear what all of you think on this question.
In any case, he certainly knew by "The Journey".
wizebeaz writes...
Hey Greg I just want to say you did a great job on the Gargoyles. Ok now for a couple of questions.
You know on 'hunter's moon 2' after Jason kissed Elisa, then Elisa went to the clock tower. Well, was she going to go visit the gargoyles, namely Goliath? And if she was would she tell him who she felt about him if she was?
Greg responds...
I do think she would have come to see them, to talk about the crisis in general. I don't know that they would have discussed the kiss. I don't know what she would have revealed about her own feelings. But I tend to think -- very little. It's just not her -- guarded, pretend to be invulnerable -- way.
Anyhow, it's moot.
matt writes...
in 2001 (or probably 2002 when you answer this :) ) is Elisa still a NY Cop? has she been promoted or still doing her detective work?
Greg responds...
How about in 2003?
Yes, I'd imagine she's still a cop. Hopefully, by now she's been promoted a grade or two. But I don't have a context to say how high.
Aaron writes...
I forget who asked this: "10. Does Dracon dream about Elisa and him being together?"
Greg replies: "10. Probably." By dream, would that be in the context of fantasizing about Elisa, (Poor Tony's never met Demona, has he?) or does Tony genuinely have some really strange dreams?
http://www.inktank.com
Greg responds...
Maybe both.
A. Goodman writes...
Before I get to the questions, I'd just like to say how much I enjoyed the show and how amazed I am to find that I'm not alone in wishing to see a return to that universe. Having said this...on with the questions!
First, is it possible to obtain recordings of some of the episodes, particularly "The Mirror"? On the subject of "The Mirror" I must say that I was somewhat disapointed that subplot (the sparks of romance) between Goliath and Elisa never reached the level of developement I was expecting (or did it?). I honestly thought Elisa made a very good gargoyle, and I always wondered if that might also have been addressed in some way. Thank you once again for everything!
Greg responds...
1. The first season was released on video, though you'd probably have to haunt e-bay to find copies of those tapes. Otherwise, the only thing I can recommend at this point is to record the eps off Toon Disney.
2. Well, I think the subplot was advanced in episodes like "Sentinel" and "Hunter's Moon", among others. As for Elisa being a gargoyle, that was always temporary in my mind.
Vashkoda writes...
The grant of immunity to Oberon's magic is a great gift to Goliath and his clan (even if it *is* subject to Oberon's interpretation).
1) You've explained that Elisa still fell prey to Oberon's sleep spell because he didn't consider her part of the clan. a) Why is this? Did Oberon not recognize how close Goliath and Elisa were back on Avalon? Did he automatically dismiss the idea that a human could be adopted into a gargoyle "clan"? b) Just a comment here, but I think it would have been a nice touch if Elisa *had* been granted immunity from the sleep spell, kind of as a way to symbolize her relationship to the clan. c) At some future point, do you see Oberon extending this immunity to Elisa as well?
2a) Do you have any specific ideas for future moments when the clan will once again get to take advantage of their immunity from Oberon's magic? b) When you introduced Oberon's gift to Goliath in "Ill Met by Moonlight", were you already thinking ahead to "The Gathering", realizing that that the clan would need this immunity? Or was it simply something you figured you might make use of eventually in a future story?
Greg responds...
1a. Largely, I don't think he's that observant. Gargoyle clans. He's thinking gargoyles. No doubt, Elisa was regarded as an ally, but I don't think it occured to him to actually consider her to be part of the clan.
b. Well, it's nice and symbolic, but I just think the spell has to come from Oberon's PoV, and it seems out of character to me for him to include her. This isn't something I missed. This is something I considered and made a conscious decision about.
c. I doubt it.
2a. Not specifically at this moment.
b. Yes and yes.
FanForLife writes...
Hi Greg. Just wondering--was the part in the Journey where Goliath went to see Elisa the first time the two talked or saw each other since the kiss at the end of Hunter's Moon 3? If not, when did they first see or talk to each other after the kiss? Thanks!
Greg responds...
Elisa and Goliath kiss on the morning of October 27, 1996.
Goliath goes to see Elisa just after Midnight on October 29, 1996.
I find it hard to believe that they didn't see each other at all on the 27th or 28th. But it's very possible that they had no time alone to discuss what had happened.
Corrie "Cormak" McDermott writes...
Hi Greg,
I have some questions about Goliath and Elisa.
1. You've said that Goliath started falling in love with Elisa pretty early on. And that he fell in love with her before he even understood how attractive she was physically. By Elisa's reactions in various episodes it seemed that she knew he was falling for her and she tried to deny the truth for a while. Not only his feelings but hers as well. Obviously by what happened in Hunter's Moon I , II and III she realized that she was in love with him and she let him know. Did she fall in love him because of the way he has protected her and his personality?
1a. Did she find him attractive physically?
1b. or both?
2. I've read your comments that Elisa and Goliath would realize that their relationship before it really started was impossible and they would date members of their own species, possibly at a Halloween party. Would this party have been the first time they dated since the breakup?
2a. Also would it be at this party that they would both realize that they still loved each other?
2b. or would that have been later on down the road?
3. Does Elisa know that Goliath was watching her and Jason in her apartment? (Hunter's Moon Part II)
3a. If not, would Goliath ever tell her?
Greg responds...
1. Well, I think Elisa probably thinks he's good looking too, but yes, it's who he is inside that really attracts her. In my opinion, anyway.
1a. I think so.
1b. Both, yeah. I gotta start reading ahead.
2. I think so. But it's not a party so much as a night out. At least in my mind.
2a. Yes.
2b. I don't think they ever stopped loving each other, but they tried to let logic and reason dictate their feelings. By the end of this Halloween adventure, they'd realize that it was pointless to supress their feelings. Certainly unfair to their dates.
3. Not sure. Don't think so.
3a. It seems unnecessary now.
Chapter XLII: "Sanctuary"
Time to ramble...
This episode was directed by Dennis Woodyard, written and story edited by Cary Bates.
The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I thought initially that we'd be even more focused on the Cathedral. That we might play a Quasimodo character. Heck, if Disney's "Hunchback" movie was going to have living gargoyles bouncing around, then I could have a Quasimodo swinging from the bell-ropes.
But the story, thank goodness, rightly evolved into a family drama with Goliath, Elisa, Angela, Demona, Macbeth and Thailog (and Bronx) providing us with one very ODD family. Quasimodo went away in favor of Thailog.
And we had to work a bit to make sure the thematic idea of the heart as a Sanctuary worked its way into the picture. Thank God for that French minister, eh?
During the "Previously..." recap the following exchange was heard between my eight year old daughter Erin and my five year old son Ben, after Angela learns (in that scene from "Monsters") that Goliath is her biological father:
Benny: He IS her father. He laid the egg.
Erin: Girls lay eggs.
Benny: His wife laid the egg.
ROMANCE
Enter, for the third time or the first (or, depending on your point of view, maybe this one doesn't count either), Ms. Dominique Destine. She tells Mac, "We have all the time in the world..."
This for me (and I know for Bond expert Cary) was a very memorable line from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." And always a good sign that a relationship is going to come to a bad end.
Elisa tips her hand, which she can do cuz no one is awake, about how she really feels about Goliath here. "The most romantic city in the world and Goliath isn't awake to share it with me." (Or something like that, all quotations are approximate.) That's what she'd like to do, I'd wager. Soar over Paris with G. the way they soared over Manhattan in "Awakenings". Now had he been awake, do you think she would have made that request? Or would she in fact be distancing herself from him simply BECAUSE she had that impulse?
After her adventure on the Loch, it's nice to see Margot on a pleasant little stroll through Paris.
THE GARGOYLE WAY
Why is Goliath so resistant to parenting Angela? After all, though they're really more like younger brothers, he does his fair share of parenting the Trio.
He falls back on "The Gargoyle Way", but that's certainly inadequate, as Diane Maza will later point out. Yes, he's only one of her rookery fathers, but he's (a) the only one there and (b) the only one left alive except for the two souls trapped inside the AWOL Coldstone.
Ultimately, I think the answer is that Angela's sudden obssession with her "BIOLOGICAL" parentage makes him nervous because of the obvious extrapolation to what comes next. If she's obssessed with me as Daddy, then what happens when she learns who Mommy is?
And that's the key. He's divorced Demona. His wife who laid the egg. It took centuries and months, but after "Vows" he moved on. Now he sees Demona as a nemesis. A painful one to be sure, but a nemesis none the less. He's afraid of what the knowledge will do to Angela. He's afraid of what Demona will do with Angela, should Angela share that knowledge. And is he perhaps afraid of what -- under Demona's influence -- Angela might become?
THE CATHEDRAL
There's some nice animation in this episode -- but none of it is at Notre Dame. That sequence put us through fits in retakes and editing. Ugghh. It's still painful to look at.
But there's some nice stuff going on...
Demona says: "In here my love." to Goliath before she realizes its not Thailog. What did you all think of that line? At this point we had only seen one silhouetted monster from a distance. And since you knew Demona was in town, we intentionally tried to lead you to belive that she was the Monster at Notre Dame. Were you expecting Thailog? Or did you think that Demona was addressing G as 'my love'?
Goliath's arrival is a shock to her, so what did you think then?
Then Thailog's arrival is supposed to be a bigger shock to you guys. Was it?
I love hearing Thailog say: "My angel of the night."
Demona has a good line too: "Jealous and paranoid."
Later, we set up Nightstone Unlimited and their two "human" identities, Alexander Thailog and Dominique Destine.
At this point in production, we knew that Fox was going to have a baby but we had not named it yet. I couldn't think of a better first name for Thailog and later I couldn't think of a better first name for Alexander Xanatos. At first this bugged me. But I began to realize it made perfect sense. Xanatos had programmed his "first" son well. If X would pick Alexander, why wouldn't T have picked it as well. And there's something so symmetrical about both his kids being named Alexander.
TOURISTS
Elisa sits at a french cafe talking out loud to herself. Ugh. Very awkward. Obviously, we couldn't come up with a solution we liked better. I'm sure it occured to me to do it in voice over, but just chucking a V.O. sequence in the middle of an ep is very awkward too. Suddenly, the movie is POV Elisa, and we weren't doing that here. (Cf. "Revelations" and Matt's VO narration.)
I do like her last line though, coming as it did from a long time Superman scripter, Cary Bates: "This is a job... for the Gargoyles!"
THE WEDDING NIGHT
We had Macbeth use the Lennox Macbeth name instead of Lennox Macduff because we thought it would be too confusing to give him an entirely different name to any new viewers. And it makes sense that he has multiple aliases. But it still bugs me and I think in hindsight, I wish we had just been consistent.
Demona kicks Macbeth into unconsciousness, and Erin asks: "Why didn't she get hurt?"
And that's a very fair question. As usual with D&M's Corsican Brother connection, we tried very hard to be faithful to it, but it was very hard. And we wound up being a bit inconsistent. The best I can suggest is that when Demona knows she's going to hurt M and it isn't just on impulse, she can more or less steel herself against the magical feedback. It's still painful. But she doesn't show it as much.
The Gargoyles wake up and Elisa says: "Look alive, guys!" Well, they do now, don't they?
I love how Thailog slips Mac the gun and then later yells at Demona, "Didn't you search him?!" He's an evil genius that one. And passive-aggressive too.
Thailog's plan is brilliant, I think. So elegant. So simple. And if not for Elisa, so effective.
Mac's suicidal tendencies resurface. Demona's legendary temper gets the better of her common sense.
Thailog really comes into his own in this ep. Sure, Xanatos said he may have created a monster, but now Thailog has outsmarted X, D and M. Who the hell is left to outsmart?
And he has some great lines too:
"You and what clan?"
"Teamwork is so overrated."
"Aren't you spunky?'" (Another Lou Grant reference of course.)
To be fair, he couldn't immediately know that Angela was blood kin, but still doesn't his reaction to her give you the creeps? When X says Angela is lovely in "Cloud Fathers" I don't think anyone thought he was being salacious. But T? Yeah, baby.
Of course, Goliath finally gets the picture after this one. Up to this point, he was thinking Demona's the lost cause but maybe Thailog is salvagable. Now he knows better. At least about T anyway.
BATTLE
There's a lot of water in that water tower. It looks cool though. The animation here makes up for the Cathedral stuff.
I love Goliath's two-handed punch.
I love Demona's punch-drunken sway, as she makes her move to, as Mac says, "put us out of our misery..."
But I've always wondered why the background painters put multiple pictures of Elisa on the wall of Macbeth's chateau. Odd, that.
When I was young, I used to love MASH, particularly back in the Wayne Rogers days. (And, yes, Wayne is a friend of my dad's now. But they didn't know each other back then so I was unbiased.) But one thing that used to drive me nuts was the repetition of the following exchange:
<LOTS OF SHELLING IS ROCKING THE HOSPITAL. SUDDENLY, IT STOPS.>
Hawkeye: Do you hear that?
Someone else: Hear what?
Hawkeye: Silence! The shelling's stopped!
This was fine the first time they used it. By the twentieth time it got VERY old.
But we do a version of it here after Elisa shoots Demona ending the battle.
Why? When it used to drive me nuts? It's amazing what I'll pay tribute too.
KEITH meet MR. DAVID
I love playing Thailog against Goliath, because I love those Thailog/Goliath exchanges where Keith plays both roles. That's one of the main reasons we created Thailog. To enjoy listening to Keith go to town.
1st Epilogue:
Goliath: "She has done you a favor, Macbeth."
That line should be a bit of a shock when G first says it. But it makes a lot of sense after he explains. And I love the look that Goliath and Elisa share. They aren't even pretending they don't share those feelings. They just won't act on them.
And how about Goliath actually telling a joke: "Just make sure you get a good look at her at night." Word.
2nd Epilogue:
One of the things I like about our series is we didn't have to end each episode the same way.
This one ends rather darkly. Goliath won't acknowledge the obvious. He just broods. Angela turns to Elisa: "Elisa, I have to know." And Elisa confirms that Demona is Angela's mother, because it's ridiculous to either lie or to not confirm the obvious that Angela has already figured out. But she knows G didn't want A to know that. So everyone is left unhappy as we sail into the fog.
And Erin ends the episode saying: "I think Elisa should be her mother."
(Me, I've always seen them sharing a more sisterly relationship. But I thought Erin's idea was sweet, and certainly came out of the sexual tension between E&G.)
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Stacey writes...
Dear Mr Weisman.
Hey there. Hope you had a nice holiday.
I was wondering when it was that you actualy thought up the idea for the garg universe? I mean, did it just pop in your head on day or had it been there for a while?
Also, was there any 'plan' to the story. Was there always going to be a Goliath/Elisa thing? Were the Rookery eggs always going to be on Avelon? Was there some kind of planning towards it?
I know this is probably incredibly sappy but its been killing me ever since I saw that episode...what WAS Goliath going to say to Elisa at the end of 'The Mirror'? Ok, for a start, it wouldn't have been much because he knew that the sun would be up soon. And all the clan were around. But what would he have actualy told her - sworn absolute undying love? Admited that he liked her a bit? I know its a stupid question, but its a lovley scene. Also, what were they like with each other the next night? I guess they both knew what he meant (even if I don't).
Okay, thats all for now. Thank you very much.
Greg responds...
Stacey,
It's been so long since you posted these questions (last October) I'm going to assume that you've already got the answers since all of them are available in the archives.
But just in case, and briefly.
I've been fascinated with Gargoyles since high school at least, but the series was developed by my team at Disney between 1991 and 1994.
Yes, we had a plan. G&E was planned. The eggs showing up on Avalon (or some equivalent) was planned..
I'm not sure that Goliath had the exact words on the tip of his tongue. (This isn't like Titania whispering in Fox's ear.) I think he would have tried to stammer something out about his growing feelings for her. But it would have stopped far short of "declaring his undying love".
Andrea "Elisa Maza" Ivanovs writes...
Hi Greg!
I hope you had a nice birthday! :)
I have a profane question, to which you might not even have an answer, but I figured I'd try. I'm hosting ELISA MAZA'S WEBSITE, all about her, have been for a pretty long time now. I've been considering getting "elisamaza.com" as a domain, but even though there's no profit involved, I'm not quite sure if I'd get into deep trouble with that.
"Gargoyles" is not a copyrighted name, so sites titled "Gargoyles.com" don't have problems - but "Elisa Maza" is a copyright by Disney...you worked with those guys, so maybe you can tell me your thoughts on that. I don't want Disney's hitmen on my doorstep or something.
Thanks for your time, and seize the night!
Greg responds...
Hey Andrea,
By now, you must be married or darn close to it. Say hi to Tony for me. Tell him the CD was great. (Although the song he credited to Alanis Morissette wasn't by her.)
Anyway, I can't answer your question. I'm not a lawyer. I don't work for Disney and I don't know what the rules are for this thing. Is it expensive? I mean would it kill you if you did it and at some point down the line, Disney asked you to stop? They wouldn't punish you -- at least not at first -- they'd just send a cease and desist.
I don't know what the likelihood of even that is, but I wouldn't want to advise you to do something that could cause you problems down the road. Good luck.
Chapter XXXVIII: "Heritage"
Time to ramble...
This chapter was written by Adam Gilad. Story Edited by Gary Sperling, and directed by Frank Paur.
FAME
As I watch each episode with my family, I've got my journal open in front of me to take notes for these rambles. During the opening credits, my five-year-old son Benny said: "I like Gargoyles." I was very pleased, of course. Then he said, "Can you write down that?" So I did. And so I have.
SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT
Back on the skiff, and Elisa still hasn't QUITE gotten the idea. She still anticipates being back in Manhattan. Like visiting Scotland was an anamoly, but now surely Avalon will send them home. (What did you all think at the time?)
And boy, that girl likes her hot dogs. Make her one with everything, you know?
A.K.A. CECIL
Our Sea Monster attacks. It's a cool design, based on research that we did. (It happens to look a lot like a pre-historic whale I saw last night on a Discovery Channel special: "Walking with Pre-Historic Beasts".)
I wish we could have found a less generic name for the creature than "Sea Monster". Thunderbird is a cool name -- particularly since I have fond memories of the L.A. T-Birds from Roller Derby telecasts of my youth -- but our research never turned up another name for the Sea Monster.
Keep in mind that though we did research, we also had time constraints. We couldn't keep researching a topic indefinitely. Eventually, we'd have to use what we had and run with it in order for the story and script to be delivered on time.
But I know Gary and Adam did quite a bit of backgrounding for this story. The Sea Monster, Thunderbird, Raven and Grandmother all came from Haida stories -- though we conflated quite a bit, I think. We did always try to be as true as possible to the history and legends we were riffing on.
HEY, WEREN'T THERE FOUR OF YOU?
As the battle with the Sea Monster came to a close, my seven-year-old daughter Erin said: "What about Elisa? Where's Elisa?"
Five seconds later, Goliath surfaces and says pretty much the same thing, before fearing her drowned by shouting "ELISAAAAA!!" (Shades of things to come -- in Hunter's Moon III.)
TOTEM POLES
Speaking of research, the origin of the whole episode was the fact that Totem Poles caught my eye as being a particularly gargoylesque deal. Then we did some preliminary research and found that they weren't carved in anything that seemed to resemble a gargoyle tradition. They were 'carved to honor animal ancestors'. So rather than stretch (or abuse) the truth, we decided to let the characters (and audience) be lured off course by the poles, just as we had been.
Fake GARGOYLES, right here in North America.
In many ways, I think it could be argued that what takes place in this episode is handled or covered in other episodes to come. We have another episode with a 'sea monster'... a more famous sea monster in a certain loch... coming up rapidly in "Monsters". Also in that ep, one of our cast is lost and feared drowned after an early attack by that monster. And much of Nick/Natsilane's dilemma is also re-covered with a more-important recurring character (Peter Maza) in our other Native American-themed episode: "Cloud Fathers". We even do more with a volcano in "Ill Met by Moonlight". On some level I suppose I regret the duplication of efforts. I don't think we usually did this sort of thing.
But I don't regret the episode. I had plans for Raven. Plans for Queen Florence Island. Plans for Nick/Natsilane. I still think the ep has some cool stuff in it. And I think we NEEDED to cover Totem Poles. It was a natural.
HAR with a V. VAR with a D.
I went to a high school in North Hollywood, CA named "Harvard High School". Named after the University. (Some people have incorrectly stated I went to Harvard for college. But I went to Stanford for Undergrad and U.S.C. to get my Masters.)
I don't remember who's idea it was to have Nick be a graduate of Harvard. Might have been mine. Harvard of course is useful as a symbol.
I like Nick/Natsilane. He's got some nice attitude here and a nice shift. Maybe not the most impressive of our so-called "International Heroes". But very likable.
I give a lot of credit to the voice actor for bringing him to life. Gregg Rainwater was brought in by our Voice Director Jamie Thomason. Gregg was terrific. We used him again in Cloud Fathers, but I've used him many times since Gargoyles. I've even written parts with Gregg in mind. He was Jake Nez in Max Steel. And I cast him as Jake MacDonald in 3x3 Eyes. He always brings incredible humanity to a part, I think. Heroic, but real.
THAT'S NOT A CROW
It's a raven. Our second Trickster makes his first appearance. Of the four (Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote), Raven was the guy we gave the most evil bent to.
I like all the shape-shifting he does. (Though when he flees at the end, I wanted him to flee in his bird form, not his Raven-Goyle form.) I also like how he lies by using pieces of the Truth.
Raven-Goyle: "There is an evil sorceress named Grandmother. She summoned the monster that you fought."
When he said that, did you believe him?
Of course, Grandmother does have magic power and she did, in a way, summon the Sea Monster.
IT COULD BE WORSE. I ONCE LIVED ON 28TH STREET.
While doing our research, we encountered names of Islands off the Canadian coast like Queen Charlotte Island. So I named the fictional island we'd be using "Queen Florence Island."
Growing up in Woodland Hills, California, I lived on Queen Florence Lane, a street off Queen Victoria Road. Victoria and Florence were the daughters of Michael Curtiz, the director of such films as CASABLANCA. Curtiz, at one time, owned all the property in that area, so he named the two streets after his daughters.
OR so I once was told... by a ghost named Humphrey who tried to convince me that he was Humphrey Bogart, though you could tell by looking at him that he wasn't.
WHO EXACTLY IS THE SICK ONE HERE?
Elisa is so strong so much of the time, that it's kinda sexy to see her vulnerable and feverish.
Notice that Grandmother doesn't use Fairy magic to heal Elisa. She uses Haida medicine. Thus the rule of non-interference is bent not broken.
I like when Nick comes back in and the Fever's broken. And he says just don't tell me you cured her with tree bark.
When she says, "...and roots." His expression is priceless.
SEEING RED
I like the lighting in the Volcano scene.
Goliath is so glad to learn that other clans have survived, that he doesn't notice -- in fact defends -- the inconsistencies in Raven's story.
Angela, on the other hand is suspicious. This was done, in part, to further develop her character. She's naive about certain things. Having been raised by humans, she's not inclined to judge them harshly or fear their prejudices. But she's not stupid. Something doesn't smell right and she notices.
For once, Bronx though does not. I chalk this up to the high quantity of magic being tossed around on this dying island. Grandmother is not what she seems. Neither is Raven. Bronx is confused.
Anyway, Goliath speaks to Gargoyles protecting to explain away why "Raven's Clan" can both hate humans and protect them. You get the sense that he understands all too well. Like despite everything, there's a part of him -- a prejudiced part -- that hasn't forgiven the human race for what happened at Wyvern. (Also keep in mind, he was just at Wyvern again, rehashing all those old memories.)
Of course, once Goliath learns that Raven was pulling something, he's furious at the trickster. Playing on his hopes AND his prejudices, Raven has risked G's wrath.
At the end of this scene, the three silent gargs vanish magically.
Erin said: "What happened? What just happened?"
Benny said: "How did they just vanish?"
They know I know the answer. But I resist telling them. It's a touch cruel. What did you guys think?
YOU CAN TAKE THE GIRL OUT OF THE CITY...
Elisa is such a New Yorker. Everything is compared to that. "This sure isn't Central Park."
Anyway, Raven, then a bear, then Bronx and finally Angela and Goliath find Elisa. I love Goliath and Elisa's hug. It's so unselfconscious. They were so worried about each other that they forgot the usual distance that they maintain.
SUSPICIOUS MINDS
So who did you trust? When the gargs disappeared, that had to indicate that something was up with the Raven-goyle.
So when Goliath tells Elisa that Grandmother is a sorceress, particularly given that Grandmother saved Elisa's life, we all tend to think that G's been duped. Then we spot Grandmother turning into Thunderbird. What did you all think then?
Benny noticed "her ears" and suspected her even before she turned into T-Bird.
THAT'S GOTTA HOIT
A cool moment in the battle against T-Bird is when Goliath rakes the creature with his claws.
Then Angela spots the Illusion. And plays it cool with Raven.
I like Goliath's line to Grandmother: "We live. We do not thrive."
Grandmother than establishes that Raven is a Trickster and that they are both "Children of Oberon". Thus we establish that aspect of our series.
She states that they are forbidden from directly interfering in human affairs. Reinforcing what the Weird Sisters said a few episodes before.
Raven joins the party. The jigs up, but he revels in it. He's got a few decent lines too.
I like "It's so messy."
POOR HORATIO, ALWAYS A BRIDESMAID, NEVER A BRIDE
Elisa more-or-less quotes Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Natsilane, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I've always loved that line.
Anyway, Goliath and Angela depart to fight Raven. They arrive first, but given the fact that Nick had to...
1. Have a final change of heart.
2. Change clothes.
3. Get up to the volcano without wings.
...He makes good time, don't you think?
Raven brings the totem beasts to life. This was always a bit weird. We introduce illusion gargs based on the totem beasts. But then when we bring the totem pole to actual life (or semblance) we have new designs for the woody creatures.
Does everyone see Goliath play dead for that bear?
Raven has a nice exit line here: "This place no longer amuses me."
Neither does this Ramble.
Chapter XXXV: "Avalon, Part Two"
Time to Ramble...
"PART TWO"
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.
I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.
Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.
Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.
THE EGGS
Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.
Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.
Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.
BEACH FIGHT
So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.
I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.
I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"
And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"
And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"
"Uh. Yeah."
And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.
It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.
So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.
I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.
Either way, there are some great lines:
Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.
Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.
Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"
Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"
The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)
At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.
ANGELA & GABRIEL
Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.
But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.
And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.
On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?
REUNIONS
Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.
Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.
I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.
K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"
SLEEPING KING
We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.
Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.
And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.
Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?
LOOSE ENDS
This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.
Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)
Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")
And how did the Archmage survive?
Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.
Now let's reveal...
WEIRD SISTERS
Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.
[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]
The sisters have some nice lines...
L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).
ARCHMAGESES
Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!
Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.
Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.
And of course, David. Wow.
Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.
But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.
"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."
"Show some dignity."
"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)
"Not where. When."
"If you don't know, don't guess."
"The book must remain in play."
"Try to keep up."
"We're not doing her any favors."
"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."
"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"
"I hadn't thought that far in advance."
"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"
"Now I understand."
"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"
All great fun.
FLAWS
All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.
The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.
And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.
But Macbeth?
Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.
It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.
But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.
CAPTIONS
These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...
Sure we start with...
"Scotland, 984 A.D."
But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".
It still makes me smile.
POWERING UP
So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....
They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.
So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."
BATTLE FLASHBACK
We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.
Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.
LAYING PIPE
In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.
The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.
Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...
And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.
And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.
Uh oh.
As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"
To be concluded...
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Chapter XXXI: "Protection"
Watched "Protection" last Saturday with my wife and kids. Here's a ramble:
CAST
I'm immediately struck by our large supporting cast. Probably because so few of our regulars (Elisa, Goliath, Broadway only) appear in the episode.
THE CROOKS: Dracon, Glasses and Pal Joey. (All very fun to write for.)
THE COPS: Matt, Maria, Morgan. (All three go undercover and do a bit of play-acting, which is also fun.)
THE CIVILIANS: Art, Lois, Dave, Mr. Jaffe, Travis Marshall. (Each is characterized rather quickly, but memorably, I think. It was particularly cool to play off the Matt/Jaffe relationship previously referred to in "Reawakening".)
As for our regulars, we intentionally reduced the number of 'goyles in this one so that we had the space in our short 22 minutes to focus on other things. Goliath and BW seemed the appropriate two to bring along for various reasons -- established most obviously in "Deadly Force" and "The Silver Falcon".
I liked how Goliath reacted to the perversion of the concept of "Protection" and how the movie-savvy BW shakes his head but takes it in stride.
ELISA
Okay, I figure we didn't fool many of you into thinking that Elisa had actually gone bad. I was pretty sure we wouldn't. At least not the older fans. So I tried to fool you another way in the first few minutes. Glasses tells Dracon about a lady cop, but doesn't mention who. Chavez accuses Elisa, but Elisa pleads her innocence. Did anyone think that Elisa was being framed?
My daughter did. But in a way that I hadn't considered, despite the fact that "Double Jeopardy" was part of the same tier and naturally led to her conclusion.
--Erin: "That's not Elisa, is it?"
--Benny: "Yes, it is."
--Erin: "Yeah, that's not her. She never dresses like that."
--Benny: "It's a wig. How'd she get her hair like that?"
--Erin: "It's a clone."
A clone? Of course! That's the problem with introducing so many concepts. Too many options for the viewer. Did anyone else think clone? Erin maintained this idea right until the end of the episode. She kept saying with increasing frustration: "That's not Elisa. It's not."
SPEAKING OF NEW CLOTHES...
I loved Elisa's new outfit, I only wish the animation -- the character modeling -- in the episode had been better. It's not always very flattering to her. Sometimes it seems to WAY flatten her out. Other times, it makes her huge. (Yes, I'm focused on her breasts. I'm a heterosexual male. What do you want from me?) But it never makes her look real. Still, it's just nice to see her wearing something -- ANYTHING -- different. I wish we had had the resources to give her more clothing options in general.
DIALOGUE
Some nice lines in this one...
Elisa to Goliath: "What are you, a puppy?"
Elisa to Glasses, et al: "You tough guys just gonna stand there all night?"
Goliath to Elisa & Dracon: "Money and power sound very appealing."
Dracon to Elisa: "Keep the jar."
Elisa to Broadway: "Keep the jar."
Dracon to Goliath: "So she's your woman. You have good taste."
Broadway to himself: "Why are bad guys always in such a hurry."
Broadway to Pal Joey: "Sorry, Pal."
Broadway's slightly dated black & white movie gangster lingo.
All of Dracon's on-going Honey, Sugar, etc. references and Elisa's reaction to them. Makes me smile still.
JALAPEÑA
You've all heard this story, right?
Okay, BRIEFLY...
Keith David used the exclamation "Jalapeña" all the time. More or less as a replacement for Halleluia. It was an expression he had gotten from a female jazz singer (whose name escapes me at the moment -- as it usually does for some reason). One day in the control booth, voice director Jamie Thomason turned to me and said, "I bet you can't get that into a script." I said, "I bet I can."
Shortly thereafter, poor innocent writer/story editor Gary Sperling turned in a perfectly normal script. I then added this entire "Jalapeña" subplot. (I had to add all this stuff about room service, jars, etc. to justify the last word in the episode.) I fell in love with the idea. I thought it would give us a curse word, basically. (That's how BW uses it in the ep.) Most everyone else hated it. But directors Frank Paur, Dennis Woodyard and Butch Lukic didn't know how far I planned on taking it. They thought it would be a one episode thing, so they indulged me here. In fact, they suggested the massive "Jalapeña!" echoes at the end of the episode. ("If you're gonna do it, do it!")
Jamie would later goad me by saying things like, "Yeah, but I bet you can't get Hudson to say it." And so one by one, everyone said it. Again, I thought it was fun and useful.
But eventually the art staff literally revolted against it. Frank told me I HAD to stop. So what you'll notice is that starting with this episode we ramp up and begin to use the word a lot. And then it peters out and disappears entirely from the show -- until "The Journey" my farewell episode. I put one "Jalapeña" in that. Disney executive Jay Fukuto asked me why I had done that: "I thought Frank hated it." That's why I did it, to annoy Frank and gratify myself.
Frank and I are all good again now. We look back on our Garg days and realize that we didn't even know how good we had it. But I'd say that in 1996 our relationship had deteriorated a bit. The stress of doing 65 episodes had taken a bit of a toll. We weren't at each others' throats or anything. But we were just a bit on edge. Like I said, ancient history. I'd love to work with Frank again now. But there you have it.
DRACON & GLASSES
Lots of loyalty from Glasses. These second banannas always fascinate me. Of course, Xanatos usually treats Owen with the utmost respect. Dracon isn't quite as good a boss. He has a line of contempt after Glasses tells Dracon that the shopkeep [Matt] wants to meet with the boss. Dracon to Glasses: "And he knows it's not you." You wonder why Glasses puts up with it.
I love how quickly Dracon adjusts to the Gargoyles too. The concept of controlling them is so appealing, it submerges his fears. He quickly starts referring to them as Guests, and then as Partners. He even puts a hand on Goliath's shoulder -- briefly.
BOMBS OVER BROADWAY
This guy seems to deal with bombs a lot. This time he hold it in his teeth, which I thought was cool.
THE GROCERY STORE
Poor Mr. Jaffe. He gets robbed all the time. Then he has to put up with a Werefox attack. And now a particle beam battle.
And what's with those giant bags of flour? Who buys those?
And I wish those hidden cameras had actually been hidden.
I'm not in love with the battle choreography here. Elisa gets the jump on Dracon, which is okay, I guess, as he was hoping he could trust her. But then Dracon gets the jump right back. She should have been better prepared. It's all a touch clumsy.
Goliath's roar is interesting. Usually we use more effect and less Keith. This one is more Keith. A lot more Keith.
G's eyes are glowing as he takes Dracon into the air. But you'll notice they stop glowing just before he drops Dracon. This is a clue that he never really intended to let Dracon die. His anger has already ebbed. And after all, "Gargoyle justice is not human justice." Had this been Gargoyle justice, you get the sense that Dracon would have wound up, dare I say it, "Street Pizza."
Things wrap up. Chavez of course is still largely in the dark. But you'll notice that things were staged so that you could believe that Matt may or may not have been in the dark too. Since this episode was part of the same tier as "Revelations" we didn't 100% know for sure whether or not Matt would know about the Gargoyles by the time this aired. So we tried to play it ambiguously here.
ELISA & GOLIATH
Jalapeñas aside, I like the final scene between E&G. They reaffirm their mission and their love for each other. The first explicitly. The second implicitly.
Also we use the scene to justify why Dracon would buy something that I knew the audience wouldn't. "The corrupt are the first to believe that others can be corrupted." If you never thought for a moment that Elisa was dirty then there's hope for you yet. Either that, or your hopelessly cynical about the rules of television.
But did you still think she was a clone?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
"PROTECTION" Memo
[In prep for my ramble on "Protection", here's the memo I faxed to Story Editor/Writer Gary Sperling. (Actually, I'm retyping it -- old typos and maybe some new ones included -- because I don't have a computer file. Just the hard copy.) You'll notice that it's more abbreviated than usual. Note the date. I was on vacation at the time. Plus, the outline may have been in better shape. Also note that the episode's original title was "Undercover". But we realized that Elisa wasn't so much going undercover, and that we'd save that concept for what eventually became "Turf". Besides the one word title, "Protection", was hard to resist given our on-going themes.]
WEISMAN 12-29-94
Notes on "Undercover/Protection" Outline...
BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. Restaurant blows up. Keep very brief.
2. Glasses joins Tony in the limo. Glasses has heard that dirty cops are muscling in on their protection racket.
3. News report to Gargoyles. PRoTECTION RACKET. Goliath wants to see Elisa. She hasn't stopped by in days. Where has she been?
4. ChAvez asking Matt same question. As MATT brings in #3 to question him about restaurant bombing. Elisa arrives late. Matt: "Where you been?" Don't crowd me Bluestone. Asks for time alone with #3 Matt gives it. Elisa starts to talk obliquely about her moving in. Chavez interrupts and suspends her while she's under investigation. Maza protests that she's innocent. HAs to turn in badge and gun.
5. Elisa storms outside. Goliath and Broadway follow.
6. #3 calls Dracon.
7. Pool Hall - reveal Elisa.
ACT BREAK??
Glasses and #3 comes in.
8. Pursuit.? or HUSSLES ELISA OUT.
9. Goliath and Broadway intervene. CHASE.
Elisa pulls the rug out from under G. She leaves w/Glasses.
Goliath says she's under a spell. BW says maybe there's another explanation.
10. Glasses and Dracon. Elisa in the next room. Send her in. You guys get to work.
Elisa and Dracon.
11. Grocery Store: MATT (disguised) and owner. Matt and Glasses.
12. Some phony store. Maria, Morgan and #3. After #3 leaves they make reference to one of their plans is sure to nail Dracon.
13. Goliath and Broadway have gone bad at Dracon's Penthouse.
ACT BREAK
Finish out 13.
Intercut:
14. Broadway helps Maria and Morgan against #3 (and Glasses?)
15. Matt and Elisa nab Dracon. He's ready with men and bomb.
Goliath and Elisa work together to diffuse situation.
(Matt and Goliath relationship should be vague.)
Elisa gets her shield and gun back.
16. Reveal clearly what everyone probably knows by now. Elisa was undercover. BW figured it out and tipped off G. Some PROTECTION TAG.
DRACON OUT ON BAIL?????????
Silverbolt writes...
I just had a thought.
Why did Elisa only have a bit part in the reckoning?
I mean I wouldn't have mind seeing her reaction to Delilah. Heck even seeing how Delilah reacted to Elisa.
Greg responds...
The answer is that in any given episode we've only got about 22 minutes of screen time. We can't service an entire cast as large as Gargoyles in every episode. We figured someday we'd get her reaction...
matt's boyfriend writes...
Why didn't Alisa ever get to learn any magic? or any of the gargoyles?
*matt adds that its Elisa, not Alisa*
Greg responds...
No aptitude. Not their style. Not that easy. Etc.
matt writes...
when Puck transforms the human population to gargs why is it that Elisa and the three teen girl gargs in the subway not have brow ridges or horns of any kind? every other gargoyle we've seen except for the English gargs had either horns or brow ridges or both, but these transformed humans had neither. in fact, besides the pointed ears and color difference (which Elisa didn't even have) their bodies from the neck up looked very human, not gargoyle. was it cuz you wanted these characters to be physically attractive to human viewers even as gargs? cuz i think physically Desdemona is more attractive than Demona or Angela and Des has big old horns, so why make these characters as gargs so human looking?
would you have objected to the animators giving Elisa a beak or a frill or any of the other non human features of gargs?
Greg responds...
Yes, I would have objected to Elisa getting a beak, because she wouldn't have looked viserally like Elisa. Other changes that were less significant would not have bothered me.
However, I loved the design they came up with and didn't question it.
As for the girls in the subway. MINOR, minor characters. There wasn't as much time to do all this stuff as you seem to think. We just had to get it done.
Don't read too much into it though. We all think that Desdemona is attractive. Frank in particular likes drawing attractive females. I think Demona and Angela and Elisa are pretty hot too. Among other characters.
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