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1. Given that the Third Race apparently knows about King Arthur's burial on Avalon (the Weird Sisters asked "Where's the sleeping king?" during their battle with the Magus in "Avalon, Part 3"), what is the significance of Oberon's referring to Titania as his "Once and Future Queen" in "Ill Met By Moonlight?"
2. On this question http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=1414 Todd Jensen mentioned a little bit about Merlin's life according to legend, including his encounter with King Vortigern. An eighteenth-century forger named William Henry Ireland wrote a play about Vortigern's life that he falsely attributed to William Shakespeare, on the grounds that Vortigern's story was so tragic, Shakespeare ought to have written about it. Given that King Arthur appears to have a prominent role in the Gargoyles Universe, and given also your love of Shakespeare, I'm especially curious to learn what role Vortigern has in the Gargoyles Universe.
By the way, I'm even more eager to learn what Shakespeare's story is in the Gargoyles Universe, than what Titania whispered to Fox.
1. You're assuming Oberon knows the title of the book "Once and Future King"?
2. No Spoilers.
Hi again. As long as rules require to group questions by different topics, I've written that as separate questions.
1. If Puck is Oberon's servant, why can he be summoned by Titania's mirror? Not some Oberon's possessions, but Titania's.
2. Does the spell, that Demona used to summon Puck, have any translation? Was it in Latin? I failed to find it on Wiki.
3. Why didn't Oberon just use the mirror as Demona did in order to summon Puck? Was he just in a mood for stroll?
4. In the way I see it, there's kind of tension between Puck and the Weird Sisters, as they say they can hunt him down for Oberon. I mean -Hunt-. Not to bring him, not to call him, not to remind to him. Hunt him down. Why? If this IS a spoiler, please, just forget you've read 2d question. If I just dramatize, feel free to tell it in any form you like.
5. Would - if heard - the ringing of the iron bell be at least painful to ANY one of Oberon's children in their true form? If not to all, then to who will it be?
1. If the spell is powerful enough, he can be summoned by any magic mirror.
2. It's Latin and can be found here: http://gargwiki.net/Summoning_Spell
I don't have the translation here at my Nickelodeon office. But you can probably get it from one of the fans by asking in the S8 Comment Room.
3. Yes. He pretty much says that. (Are you asking these questions from memory without looking back at the episodes? Cuz, if so, you're really waiting a LONG time to get answers you could've gotten yourself.)
4. It's a spoiler.
5. To all.
Is Oberon capable of love? Does he love his wife and biological children? Did he marry Titania for shallow reasons (like her beauty, power, and status)? I get this feeling if his sons were to die, he would not care.
You'd be wrong.
He, of course, loves Titania and his children.
I'm not even sure what you're basing your assumptions on.
Today you answered this question:
"2. Why is the plate still there when she becomes Molly if all of her magic is lost in that form anyway?"
"2. Huh? When does that happen?"
I guess it never did on screen, but the reason I ask is because a while ago a poster named Matt asked:
"5. While the Banshee has Oberon's metal plate over her mouth, can she still transform into Molly or Cromm-Cruach? If so, does the plate remain in place or is that strictly a feature of her Banshee form?"
And you responded with this:
"5. The plate adapts to her form. Oberon knows she can change shape, so I can't imagine he wouldn't have taken something that fundamental for granted. Of course, instead of transforming into Molly , she could glamour into Molly and make the gag invisible. But she still wouldn't be able to talk."
Have you changed your mind since then, & now the plate does not remain when Banshee transforms into Molly? If so, does that mean she can speak while in the form of Molly now too?
Not unless Oberon wills it so.
Hello, Greg, I am a fan of Gargoyles and your other work. I have questions about Oberon.
1.)Did Oberon have any affairs while he was married to Titania? You mentioned he has 4 kids. I'm not sure if two were born before his marriage or during it.
2.)Do you think Future Archmage and Jackal-Anubis(or Jackalbus) stand a chance against Oberon? Both of them seem pretty powerful.
3.)How come he isn't bothered that his wife has a daughter by a human? He doesn't seem upset about it.
1. No spoilers.
2. It's all situational.
3. You're imposing human morality on a non-human entity. He's even LESS human than he appears, btw.
1. Oberon comes off as a slightly arrogant, did he really not consider it beneath him to be intimate and procreate with mortals?
Only slightly arrogant?
Anyway, your question strikes me as a non-sequitor. I don't understand where the premise of it comes from, so I don't know how to answer it.
Assuming they were in a place where they were both at full power, were both not holding back, and there was no chance of peace, who do you think would win between Oberon and Earth-16 Dr. Fate?
See, now, the Hulk is more powerful because the madder he gets, the stronger he gets. But the Thing can still beat him if he keeps his wits about him.
Hi Greg. I am a big fan and I have a copyright question for you . The characters you use in Gargoyles are besides the main cast are mythological. So that would put them in the public domain, but your spin on them is that protected by copyright. Such as Oberon and Titania's connection to Avalon and their devours.
Thanks and Cant wait for Rebels and whatever else you do.
Oberon and Titania, to use your examples, are public domain. But our designs of them are not. And it one began to hew too closely to the backstories we created for them, Disney could, in theory, sue.
We know that Oberon sent the Fae out from Avalon in order to teach them some humility... Was there a singular inciting incidentthat caused this ruling, or was it just from the sheer number of small incidents of individual Fae?
Okay, first. I try not to use the word "Fae" to refer to all of Oberon's Children. That's a fan term, which I have - through not paying attention - occasionally found myself using by accident or out of laziness. But I'm trying to break myself of that habit.
Anyway, the answer is BOTH, i.e. there was a cumulative effect of multiple incidents that started Oberon thinking along certain lines. But there was also a singular incident that ultimately triggered his decision.
I'm honestly not trying to have an "ah ha! Gotcha" moment here (although it may seem like it after I ask my questions), as I am honestly curious and a little confused.
You've said that Odin was able to circumvent Oberon's rule of not stealing Avalonian artifacts from mortals because he felt that it belonged to him.
My question is:
1) Why does he believe the Eye still belongs to him after he gave it up willingly (i.e. not stolen from him)?
To put it in "mortal perspective," if a woman gives up her baby for adoption, and for whatever reason the adoptive family decides to give the baby to someone else, and the birth mother takes the baby back, thats kidnapping (i.e. theft)...even if the birth mother feels justified, reasoning that this new family isn't who she agreed to give the baby to and doesn't like how they are raising the child, if the authorities caught her, she would be punished the same as if she hadn't given birth to the baby - as she gave up all rights to the child in the first place.
Now, in Odin's case, Oberon is the authority and Odin was able to "bend" Oberon's law because he "felt" justified:
2) Does Oberon agree with Odin, that he is the rightful owner dispite having given it away a long time ago?
3) Why? Does he not see contractual agreements with mortals binding?
4) Was Odin punished for breaking the law or forgiven? (If this is a story for another day, I'll understand if you do not feel like answering this one).
1. Reversion clause.
I'm not sure I don't believe that extenuating circumstances would negate your analogy. Plus, if you gave your baby up to adoption to someone specific, I'd lay odds that in many adoption contracts, there may in fact be a clause that gives the birth parents the option of getting the child back instead of it going to an unapproved third party. But in any case, Odin is a god (from his point of view). He sure as hell wouldn't think much of your analogy.
2. I don't think Oberon knows or cares. But I tend to think he wouldn't think much of your analogy either.
3. What contract with what mortal are you referring to? Mimir was not a mortal.
4. See above.
I have a few questions regarding Banshee/Molly.
1a. Is the plate that covers her mouth made of iron?
1b. If not, how does it restrict her powers?
1c. Also, if it's not iron, why did Oberon put it there instead of "decreeing" her powers not work (like the restrictions on mortal interferance)?
2. Why is the plate still there when she becomes Molly if all of her magic is lost in that form anyway?
3. Is the plate a temporary punishment or permanant - meaning it cannot be removed, even by Oberon himself?
1b. Oberon's power does the trick.
2. Huh? When does that happen?
3. Oberon can clearly remove it. Listen to his dialogue.
You've said that "sides were taken" during the war between Mab and Oberon.
I have a few questions regarding this conflict:
1) Were the "sides" you refered to composed of, lets say "morally ambiguous," Children like the Wierd Sisters, Banshee, Anansi, and Raven versus the relatively benign Children like Puck, Odin, Coyote, and Grandmother?
2) Does Oberon hold any animosity for those who sided against him, ranging from general distrust to outright distain? Does he forgive any of them completely?
3) Do any who took Mab's side still prefer to be refered to as "Mab's Children?"
4) Were any Children who fought against Oberon imprisioned along with Mab?
These are all spoiler questions. No comment.
hey i was wondering how would you describe oberon's relationship with the avalon clan amicable respectfully or professionally distant
also does boudicca like oberon at all
1. All of the above.
2. Sure. He gives her treats.
Since you are a big Shakespeare fan, I thought to ask if you've read A Midsummer Tempest by Poul Anderson? It's set in a world where all of Shakespeare's plays really happened?
No. And I won't, so as not to crowd my head with other folks' ideas. Sounds really cool, though. We were trying to accomplish the same thing (among other things) on Gargoyles.
I would like to make a few questions about The Children of Oberon's weakness: Iron.
1) Why they are vunerable to it to begin with?
2) Is iron COMPLETLY inmune to their magic, or only highly resistent to it?
3) If so, how much iron composition other substances (like Steel) would need to be at least resistent to their magic?
4) If a Children of Oberon turn itself into a creature stronger than an average Gargoyle, would he/she be able to break a iron chain with it's bare hands?
5) If the Children of Oberon can't affect iron with magic, how did Oberon managed to do things like levitating Xanatos' laser-gun, shockwave several robotic gargoyles and melt a lamppost with his bare hands?
1. Maybe because most iron comes from outer space? (Honestly, I don't know. They just are. Like Mon-El's vulnerable to lead.)
2. Iron is immune, but if you can pick up a pair of wood tongs with your magic, you can use the tongs to pick up the iron rod. (Or something like that.)
3. Any iron in an alloy adds resistance, but if you're looking for a numerical value, you've asked the wrong guy.
5. Depends what they are made of. And also look at the answer to question two. A mighty wind is a mighty wind and can blow anything out of it's path. If Oberon can create a wind, it blows.
I wrote this up on my blog last Christmas (a bit of a gift to myself there) and thought I'd share it here.
For every hero, or group of heroes, there must be villains. The villains test the hero, the villains make the hero. In the realm of superhero lore, Batman and Spider-Man have been cited as having the greatest rogues' galleries in comics. And I do not disagree. Sadly, other heroes or teams seem to come up lacking. Sure they may have one or two great villains, but the rest seem to be meh. The FF have Dr. Doom and Galactus, sure. The X-Men have Magneto and the Sentinels, Green Lantern has Sinestro, but the rest of their rogues galleries have always seemed, at least to me, to be okay at best. I know some will contest this opinion, but it's my opinion and as far as this blog goes, that's the one you're stuck with. Personally, I always thought the Third Great Rogues' Gallery belonged to "Gargoyles." So, let's honor them.
First of all, here's who didn't make the list and why:
Wolf - Nothing against Wolf, he's fun. He's a big dumb thug, but he's fun. But, as of yet, I haven't found him to be very interesting on his own. And I always thought his teammates were more interesting and fun to watch.
Tony Dracon - I like him a lot more than a lot of other "Gargoyles" fans seem to. He's usually fun, but he didn't quite have enough to make this list.
Oberon - I never thought of him as a villain, and I still don't. Even when he was trying to kidnap Alex. Did I agree with him? Not at all, but I don't think he was in the "legal" wrong either.
Robyn Canmore, Dingo, Matrix, Yama, and Fang - If you don't know why, shame on you.
Second of all, here's who I hope to add to the list some time:
Queen Mab - Come on Disney, let Greg do it!
Morgana le Fay - Ditto.
With that out of the way, let's dive into list.
20. Duval and Peredur fab Ragnal
At present, we've seen too little of these two to know much about them. But what we have seen has been enough to give us an intriguing mystery, especially if you've been following ASK GREG for the past fourteen years. They are the guiding hands of the Illuminati Society, which was created a century after the Fall of Camelot, by Sir Percival to "set things right." Which of these two men is Sir Percival? Well, I have my theories on that. Peredur fab Ragnal is the Welsh name for Percival, and Duval sounds like a modern alias for Percival as well. In fact, for years Greg Weisman told us that Percival was Duval, and then when the comic comes out we get Peredur. Following that, he said nothing changed from his original plan? So, who is Sir Percival, and what's the deal with the other guy? Again, I have my theories.
But I imagine that should new material ever come our way, one or both of these guys will shoot up on this list.
I also enjoy the idea of Duval being cybernetic, but I think he needs a bit of a re-design. Especially in what he wears.
19. The Banshee/Molly
The Banshee may have only been in one episode (with a cameo appearance in another), but damn did she leave an impression. Everything about this character was executed flawlessly. The character model, the animation, the voice, the effects! I loved how ghoulish she appeared, you could see the background through her.
It also helps that "The Hound of Ulster" is one of the best World Tour episodes. The script is tight, the animation is gorgeous, and a lot of the character actions are subtle and over the top when they need to be. Look at Molly's brief, brief exchange with Rory's father for the subtly, which contrasts the wonderful over the top performance as the Banshee.
This guy was a jerk. I mean, really. A paranoid tyrant who thought the world was out to get him. Well, not the world so much as his cousin, Macbeth. I suppose I can understand seeing Macbeth as a threat to the throne, but he just seemed to go out of his way to make Macbeth miserable. He reveled in it. When he died, we were all happy to see him bite it.
Batman has Joe Chill, and Spider-Man has the Burglar. Goliath has this Viking chieftain who massacred his clan. Well, Hakon may not have acted alone, but with the swing of his mace, the series really began. Like his descendant, Wolf, he's pretty one-note. But he plays that note masterfully.
But perhaps the better story isn't even the one where he shattered the clan, but the one where his vengeful spirit attempted to drive Goliath insane. That episode was the perfect send off for Hakon, even more so than falling off a cliff to his death. His angry, vengeful spirit was trapped alone at the bottom of a cavern for all of eternity without anyone or anything to hate. At least that's where I think he should have stayed. Hakon might have ranked higher if he didn't come back one last time in an episode that I thought was one of the show's only misfires. But hey, sixty-five episodes, eighteen comics, and only one misfire. You're still golden.
Now this guy is fun. I love his design, both as a gargoyle and as a robot. I love his Doc Ock-esque tentacles, and I loved Xander Berkeley in the role. Coldsteel is a manipulative jerk, and it's fun to watch him work. His favorite victim is usually Coldstone, and his goal remains unchanging… possess Coldfire. In a nutshell, he's a creepy stalker.
What's also fun is that he's had three voice actors, and not because Berkeley was unavailable. When he controlled Coldstone's body, he was played by Michael Dorn. When he possessed Brooklyn, he was voiced by Jeff Bennett. And they both did it without talking like their regular characters. Watch "Possession" again and listen to "Brooklyn" speak. It's obvious who is in the driver's seat.
I also enjoyed his appearance in the comics, working for Xanatos to distract our heroes from the theft of the Stone of Destiny. Where will he go from here? I'm not sure. I tend to think he works better when he's teaming up with other villains than acting on his own. Well, he did see potential in the Coyote robot, so maybe that's not over; one could see him working with Thailog too; perhaps even re-team with his rookery sister, Demona… they did get along quite well in "High Noon."
15. Constantine III
What can I say about this guy? He follows a long tradition of Disney tyrants, and is just as fun to watch as any of them. Sometimes I think the tenth and eleventh century villains are even more vicious than the modern day villains, and Contantine sums that up.
When we first meet this guy, he uses Finella, the woman who loves him, to lure King Kenneth (who is in love with her) out just so he can murder him in cold blood and take his crown. Then he casts her aside so he can marry Princess Katharine and better secure his claim to the throne. And he tries to keep in control with barely veiled threats against her charges. Harsh.
But even better than that is his return in the "Gargoyles" comic book where he's hunting down and murdering every gargoyle clan he can find, and trying to find Katharine and her friends. By now, he's been in power for two years and rules with an iron fist… which leads to a civil war. This guy is such a jerk that he even kills the messenger that the army of the Three Brothers sends. You never kill the messenger.
And then there was his rather creepy relationship with his new protégé, Gillecomgain, which led to the two inspiring each other in a very twisted ways. Constantine is inspired by Gillecomgain's scars to wear them as war paint in battle, and in turn, Constantine inspires Gillecomgain to become the Hunter. As if Gillecomgain needed any more inspiration. Which brings me to…
Let's face it, even as a kid, Gillecomgain had issues. Obviously there was a lot of darkness instilled in him by his father, who himself had some very understandable issues also. What did these issues lead to? One rogue gargoyle was going through their barn, and Gillecomgain pointed a pitchfork into the shadows to scare a thief only to get slashed across the face. What did THAT lead to? Arguably the events of the entire series.
Gillecomgain's life didn't get better. Constantine III took an interest in him which set him on the path of becoming a masked political assassin, not to mention his continued hunt for the demon that scarred him. Like dominos, this led to events that made Macbeth the man he is today, the Canmore clan what they became, and set the tone for centuries of hatred and pain. And all because of one scratch in a barn.
As a character himself, Gillecomgain stacks up well. There is a moment after his arranged marriage to Gruoch, who obviously doesn't love him, where you almost wonder if you should feel bad for a man whose wife obviously despises him. Then he crushes her rose underfoot. What does this mean? Here's a hint, Luach might not have been Macbeth's son. Powerful stuff.
13. Falstaff/John Oldcastle
Okay, this guy is fun. Him and his gang of LARPers gone bad. They appeared only in the final two issues of "Gargoyles: Bad Guys" but they made an impression. I loved the buildup Falstaff received. We see him take a young Harry Monmouth (who would grow up to become Dingo) under his wing. Train him to be a thief, and take pity on the poor boy after his mother ran out on him. Only for that shocker of a final page where we see Oldcastle with his hands wrapped around the throat of her already dead body.
I really love his gang. At first glance, they seem super human, but are in fact incredibly skilled. And I love that Oldcastle, maybe the world's greatest thief, named himself after Shakespeare's king of thieves. He looked the part, and just seemed to take so much joy in everything he did, and that helped make it a joy to watch him do it.
I hope we get more at some point, because I want to know more about him. Why did he murder Dingo's mom? And when did the Illuminati recruit him? Does he have any other responsibilities for the Society other than guarding their giant vault? Well, until next time, and I believe there will be a next time.
Of all the new characters introduced in the comic books, the most intriguing has to be Shari. Is she Thailog's new executive assistant, or does she own him? So far it seems to be a little bit of both. But I'm sure it's far more one than the other.
I love the narrative device of her storytelling, and I wonder where her knowledge comes from. Sure, she's a very high member of the Illuminati Society, but there are some things she just shouldn't know. And yet, she does. Like I said, she's intriguing. Now, I have my theories on who she really is, in fact I think it's so obvious, I almost wonder what the point of not revealing it was, aside from the fact that I can't see a place in the stories released to do it.
And as a final bit of trivia, Shari's look and basic design was inspired by stage actress and long time "Gargoyles" fan, Zehra Fazal. I've seen her perform on stage, and she is brilliant. She definitely deserved to be immortalized in "Gargoyles" canon in such a way.
11. The Archmage
Who would have thunk it? A one-shot villain if "Gargoyles" ever had one. You watch "Long Way to Morning" again, and you'd never think this guy would have become so important in the grand scheme of the series. Well, let's just say that David Warner kicks ass.
While I do write off his appearance in "Long Way to Morning" as 'obvious one shot villain,' he's still fun, even there. But I think what everybody remembers most is his turn as the villain in the "Avalon" triptych. I loved "Avalon Part Two." I thought the script was brilliant. I thought David Warner's dialogue with himself was tremendous. The entire endeavor was just wonderful.
Do I agree with the decision to kill him off? Absolutely. I don't think he would have had any staying power in the modern day material. The guy is a clichéd sorcerer, even if he's a very fun one. However, that doesn't mean I think the character is done entirely. There is plenty for him to do in a certain spin-off that takes place during the "Dark Ages." Or maybe even something to do if one were to TimeDance and have an encounter with him.
What can I say, I have a soft spot for this glorified toaster oven. At first glance he may seem like Ultron wearing half of Xanatos's skin, but the influence from Xanatos is evident. This robot has a sense of humor, sometimes even a perverse one. Granted it's not sentient or self-aware, but it almost seems close enough to fool you.
I love all the designs he goes through. They're all different, while at the same time reminding you of who you're looking at. But my favorite will always be the first one. I loved the look, I loved his perception-warping weapon the most. I wish he'd used it more often.
What's next for this character? Well, Greg has kept extremely tight-lipped. We know more upgrades are on the horizon, but come "Gargoyles 2198" … well, let's just say I think I know what the Xanatos of "Future Tense" was actually foreshadowing.
9. Jackal and Hyena
The "Gargoyles Universe" is well known for their complex, complicated villains. But sometimes, it's nice to just cut loose. Enter the sociopathic Jackal; and his twin sister, the psychotic Hyena and we're in for a good time whenever they show up. These two will crack you up one moment and then make you sick the next.
The first time they appeared, they didn't seem THAT bad. Then, come their second appearance, you have Hyena nearly slicing a fan's face up, and smiling when she gets arrested. Following that, we have Hyena falling in love with a robot. And then, after that, the two volunteer to trade in their body parts for cybernetic implants. Frankly, it's rather sick.
Jackal almost seems normal when you compare him to Hyena. "Normal" being very relative, until we get to "Grief" where he becomes the avatar of Anubis, giving him power over life and death, and what does he do? He decides he wants to end all life on Earth. Yeah….
I'm glad these two are close siblings, because they deserve each other. Still, whatever else they are, they're very fun bad guys. Hell, even a friend of mine named his gold colored Aztek after Hyena.
8. Anton Sevarius
Dr. Anton Sevarius earns points for being the creepiest villain we have encountered so far. He's even creepier than Jackal and Hyena! Sure, he's pretty much a hired gun, but the guy enjoys it. He revels in it. I can sum up Sevarius with one quote. After he was asked why he was doing this:
"For science, which as my associate Fang indicated, must ever move forward. Plus there's the money… and I do love the drama!"
This guy is only slightly more ethical than Dr. Mengele! And I also need to give a ton of credit to Tim Curry for really bringing this guy to life. Apparently, Brent Spiner was the first choice to voice Sevarius, but Curry got the role, and Spiner was cast as Puck. Thank god for those decisions.
Another moment that really stands out was when he was all over Angela in "Monsters." Does he have a sexual interest in her? I don't know, probably not. I think he just took pleasure in making her as uncomfortable as possible.
I think my other favorite Sevarius moment comes from "Double Jeopardy" where he thinks he's taking part in a Machiavellian scheme of Xanatos's and decides to act the part… very badly, I might add. So much fun, even when he makes you scream.
7. The Weird Sisters
Okay, let's get this out of the way. Silver haired Luna is the Sister of Fate; Raven haired Selene is the Sister of Vengeance; and Golden haired Phoebe is the Sister of Grace.
The Weird Sisters are, for the most part, a complete mystery. They have plans within plans that stretch through the centuries, after all what is time to them? They could even give Xanatos a run for his money. What is their agenda? Only they know. We've seen two thirds of the story, with Luna ascendant during "City of Stone" and Selene ascendant during "Avalon." But there is a missing piece, where does grace fall in their plans for Demona and Macbeth? Hopefully time will tell.
These three are great fun to watch. I love how they can be both nowhere and everywhere. And I love how they can and will take on different forms depending on who is looking at them at any given moment. Where do their loyalties lie? Well, it seems to be with Oberon, but I've long suspected there is something bigger at play with these three.
It would be easy to say they were plucked straight out of the Scottish Play, but in several folklores and mythologies, the Weird Sisters are present in some form. There is just something elemental and primeval about them. And that's part of what makes them a great element of the series.
Any woman who David Xanatos would marry would have to be cut from the same cloth he is, because anyone else would be beneath him. Fox is that woman. Hell, sometimes she gets the better of him, whether they're sparring in the dojo, or playing chess. And he doesn't resent this; it's just further proof that he's found the love of his life.
It's weird to watch her in "The Thrill of the Hunt" at times, because Wolf, Jackal, Hyena, and Dingo just seem so far beneath her, she almost seems out of place there. And yet, at the same time, the more we learn about her, the more it makes sense. When we meet Halcyon Renard, a huge piece of the puzzle is put into place. She was never a daddy's girl, in fact, quite the opposite. She was clearly motivated, for years, by just annoying her father. Maybe her mother too.
And I think it was just as much of a shock to her that she loved David. But I wonder what their relationship was like before her prison sentence? Obviously Xanatos made her a television star, but what else was going on there?
She was his lover and employee. And a trained mercenary, let's not forget that.
Like her husband, she grew and developed as the series progressed, and is every bit as interesting a character as he is. In fact, in an alternate universe, I wonder how the series would have played if Fox was in Xanatos's role from the get go.
Ah, the prodigal son… and he's a bastard. Literally.
I love this guy, he's just a hoot. Thailog is as powerful as Goliath, as brilliant and amoral as Xanatos, and as hammy and immoral as Sevarius. All at once. And it shows. In every single appearance, it shows. The guy is a walking Oedipus complex, what with his desire to prove his superiority to his fathers. I suppose one might say that he's already gotten the better of Sevarius, since he has the good doctor on his payroll. And while he outsmarted Xanatos once, I don't think he's done. Turning Nightstone Unlimited into a powerhouse to rival Xanatos Enterprises is obviously a means to this end. But what next?
I think my favorite thing about Thailog is that while he is a clone of Goliath, that's the last thing that comes to mind when I think about him. He's a fully developed character in his own right, and not simply Goliath's evil twin. On that note, I'm happy his coloring is different, because the last thing this show needs is an entire episode where the gargoyles try to figure out which one is the real Goliath.
And how can anyone not find that maniacal laugh of his to be anything but endearing?
4. John Castaway
John Castaway is a fascinating character, hell to crack the top five, he has to be. Castaway is a weak man, and at the heart of everything, a frightened child. Too weak to stand up to his brother and say "this is wrong" and too weak to admit he was wrong when he pulls the trigger and everything goes to Hell. I think the only thing that has changed is his support system.
Now that the gargoyles have been revealed to the world, Castaway represents a political movement who are moving against them. And it's rather frightening. Not for being a group of hooded thugs, they are not, but for being like a cross between the neighborhood watch, and a support group. Oh, there is a violent wing of the Quarrymen, we know that. But with Castaway's shrewdness, and the Illuminati's backing, I don't think he would do something stupid like fire anti-aircraft cannons in Manhattan, or hijack a train. No… because that would make Castaway much less difficult to defeat than he is. And even then, who says that happens? The Quarrymen are destined to be a problem for at least the next two hundred years, and like the Hunters before them, his descendents will lead the organization.
Keep in mind, we can all trace this back to a scratch in a barn in the tenth century.
Well, where do I start? Well, I suppose I will start by saying that I almost feel bad for putting him on this list at all. He has a strong sense of honor, if skewed. He's worked against our protagonists and with them. But, in the end I think the only side he's on is his own. While he is more of an ally now, that doesn't mean he hasn't been part of the problem before and won't be part of the problem again.
His story is terrific. Rather than follow the Scottish Play, the story we got was a loose adaptation of the true history of Macbeth and his reign over Scotland. Yes, we had Demona and gargoyles, and the Weird Sisters and sorcery, but we also had a history lesson unfolding, even if we didn't know it at the time. And it's terrific. To this day, it's my favorite tale in the entire mythos.
When we first meet him, the centuries have certainly taken their toll. He is not above attacking the gargoyles, taking hostages, and committing grand theft. And yet, we never once think of him as evil, despite doing some pretty unethical and amoral things. That changes with "City of Stone" when we learn his story and feel sorry for him. But at the same time, I think the perception among many fans has swung around too far. Yes, we understand him more now. But that wasn't his redemption. Far from it.
I think the tail end of "Sanctuary" and "Pendragon" is where the change begins, and I stress this, begins. In the former, he learned that he is still capable of love. In the latter, while some didn't quite get why he competed so violently against King Arthur for Excalibur, well, it always made sense to me. This is a man who has suffered so much, who viewed his existence as sad and endless, that he was looking for something to give it meaning and maybe justify every terrible thing that has ever happened to him. Being the new Once and Future King would serve that purpose, wouldn't it? Well, it doesn't quite work out for him, but over the course of the series we have seen this man go from suicidal renegade to a man who doesn't think life is completely worth living, and now seeks purpose in his existence. Did he look like a fool clutching that broken sword? Well, he was a broken man. And once you hit rock bottom, the healing can begin.
2. David Xanatos
He was designed to be a heroic character, and he was cast as the villain of the piece. That, right there, is what makes this character so brilliant. He has so many positive qualities, so many admirable traits. He's smart, he's cool, he's suave, he's practical, he knows his priorities, he doesn't sweat the small stuff, he doesn't hold a grudge; the titled heroes have more personality flaws than he does! But he is also incredibly ruthless, and while he's not evil, he is incredibly amoral. He seems to be the walking personification of Frederick Nietzsche's ubermensch when one stops to think about it. And he is awesome.
I am actually struggling here, what more can be said about David Xanatos that hasn't already been said? He's designed many tropes all by himself. There was never a villain like him in animation before, and even after he's left, there still has never been anyone quite like him. He doesn't surround himself with dimwitted henchmen and beat them up and scream when they fail. No, quite the opposite, he is always surrounded by incredibly competent people. His assistant and majordomo, Owen Burnett comes to mind. And he so rarely loses. In sixty-five episodes, and eighteen comics, I can count the number of actual losses on one hand. Aside from that, he always comes out on top. Always. But when he doesn't, he doesn't throw a fit and scream, he shrugs it off and moves on to the next plan. There are always contingencies. This guy is the coolest guy in the series.
His character arc throughout the series is brilliant. I love his rivalry with Goliath, and I love how he doesn't hate or even dislike Goliath. He likes Goliath a lot, admires him, and regards him with what I can best call a mix of interest and benign amusement. That's far more interesting than Megatron's hatred for Optimus Prime. And I really love how Goliath would often use the word "evil" to describe Xanatos. Sure, Xanatos has done some evil things, but Goliath's view of him for the longest time was very two-dimensional. It almost represents how most audiences, especially in animation, were trained to view the villain. No, Xanatos wasn't a Dark Lord, or a diabolical evil. He was simply a trickster. A human trickster.
While Xanatos and Goliath seem to have made some form of peace, that still didn't make Xanatos one of the good guys! I love that! In a way, he's still the enemy, and now the gargoyles are living with him, and they know it! He still has plans and schemes, and while he likes the gargoyles and helps them out, that doesn't stop him from manipulating them to his own ends, or even working against them. And best of all, as far as Xanatos is concerned: it's nothing personal.
I also have to give a ton of credit to the performance of Jonathan Frakes. He made Xanatos sound so sophisticated, fun, and erudite.
David Xanatos, he should run a seminar on villainy. Often imitated, never duplicated.
Demona is the clear number one on this list, for reasons both grounded and very esoteric at the same time. At the most minimal of glances, she seems very typical. We've seen genocidal human haters before. But scratch the surface, even a little, and we get the deepest creation of not only the series, but one of the deepest creations in the realm of fiction. I'm going to say this now, and roll your eyes all you want, but Demona would not be the slightest bit out of place in Russian literature. Or William Shakespeare's for that matter. I love this character.
Let's start with the surface elements first. She's got a terrific character design, and was so very well animated. Marina Sirtis deserves a tremendous amount of credit for the work she did bringing her to life. She embodied that character so completely that I never want to hear anyone else ever voice Demona on any animated project. No one can do it. Period. Hearing Marina Sirtis voice Demona was just as much of a revelation as hearing Mark Hamill's Joker. And I will stand by that statement even under threat of torture. She is also just such a badass! An intimidating warrior, an immortal, a sorceress, and she transforms into a human during the day! Hell, in both forms, she's pretty hot.
Now, for the esoteric. She has a guilt complex that makes Peter Parker's look tame by comparison, but she spreads it around to everyone else rather than internalize it. And considering how much she has to feel guilty over, this makes her arguably the most dangerous character in the series. She cannot accept her own culpability for the terrible things that happened to her, and for all intents and purposes, murdering her clan. She may not have swung the mace, but her ambition, her bigotry, and her cowardice put them in front of it.
Her favorite scapegoats are humanity as a whole, who make an easy and convenient target for her to project her guilt and self-loathing on. Now, does she have a point? Yes. Let's face it, humans can be bastards. We've done terrible things as a species. But, just as you cannot blame every Muslim for the attacks on September 11th, or every German for the Holocaust, Demona is wrong to blame every human for the terrible actions of a few. And at the end of the day, she was either directly or indirectly responsible for those actions. She betrayed her clan, and caused the massacre; she created the Hunter, and betrayed Macbeth. Demona created her own pain, and she intends to wipe out every man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth just to justify every damned stupid choice she ever made.
Despite all of that, she is an eternally conflicted character. She is not a one-dimensional cut-out. Deep inside, she knows she's wrong, she knows what she did. But she cannot and will not acknowledge that. And that's what makes her hatred for Elisa Maza so interesting. The one human she hates most is the one that has been a true friend to the gargoyles, because Elisa is living proof of just how wrong Demona really is. And the fact that Elisa and Goliath are now in love doesn't help considering Demona's lingering feelings of jealousy.
Of course, there is Demona's biological daughter, Angela. She is probably the one person Demona cares about in the world. My single biggest regret about the cancelation of the comic book is that we didn't get to see the two of them interact again. I am beyond curious to see where this goes. But one thing I am confident of, it's not heading towards a hysterically easy redemption. Nope, if we take the plan for the "Gargoyles 2198" spin-off seriously, and I most certainly do, Demona is still plotting against humanity long after Angela has died. Is it sad? Yes. Is it tragic? Yes. Is it Demona? Absolutely.
I also love how she is a walking mess of contradictions. Her belief system is based so much on lies she tells herself, that she will rationalize anything she can to fit her world view. Why? Because the alternative is admitting she is wrong, and right now, she will not do that. Cannot do that. Sadly for both her and Angela, I see tragedy in their future.
Demona's through line is one of the main reasons I am so desperate for "Gargoyles 2198" to be produced. I want to see how her story ends, and if it's going to end anywhere, it's in that spinoff. This is a story I am dying to see, and if Disney never produces it, well… one way or another I intend to find out what happens to her. What her ultimate fate is going to be. We know she'll have an epiphany of some kind. How does it happen? Why does it happen? What's the fallout? How does her story end?
Demona is an endlessly fascinating character. We've never seen anything like her in the realm of western animation before her debut, and I don't think she's been replicated since. Why? I don't know. But lightning has been caught in a bottle, and I am rather happy that no one has attempted to imitate this unique and perfectly conceived character but tragically flawed person.
What? No love for Bruno?
I noticed in another series of children's books called The Sisters Grimm that the author, Michael Buckley, also had Puck as a main character, only he has the form of a 12 year old and seems to have the mindset of one. He also has a pair of pink insect wings (despite still being a shape-shifter) that he isn't ashamed of at all.
He's written in a way that makes me believe he could have been your version of Puck at a younger age, though he is considered in that series to be the literal child of Oberon and Titania (Oberon's children, haha).
What's more is that King Oberon and Queen Titania live in Manhatten, New York City. I can't help but wonder if there's some of the Gargoyle show's influence at work here.
1. Were you aware of this series and its similarities?
2. Did you ever exchange words with Michael Buckley?
3. Do you think it's possible he watched your show, Gargoyles, or more likely that it was a coincidence?
3. I have no idea.
Your rendition of Puck really rekindled an interest of fairy lore in me, especially since I love tricksters and their amoral personalities that make them so complex. I love how you never know if they'll do something 'good' or 'bad' to someone else simply on a whim, and you portrayed that so well.
I read a previous answer of yours to someone else that said you didn't want to label Puck, Oberon, and Titania as 'faeries' because of the pejorative connotations that the word has. I realize and empathize with you about how fairies are often thought of as nothing more than pretty little girls with butterfly wings or something to that effect, who wave magic wands to grant wishes and always do good. Makes me sick.
1. Is that why you didn't have Puck, Oberon and Titania portrayed with fairy wings despite their status in their original play?
2. If so, why bother to have Puck fly around at all, let alone with fairy dust trailing behind him?
There's a show I recently learned of called Durarara!! in which a Dullahan (technically a sort of fairy) comes to Tokyo to find her missing head, taking the form of a black-wearing motorcyclist and transferring her headless horse's spirit into a pitch black motobike. To hide the fact she has no head, she wears a full helmet and tries to blend in with the city, acting as a transporter and courier for gangs and info brokers, forcing fans to reconsider their initial mental image of a typical fairy.
I think if you had recognized that Puck and the others were Fae, it just might have saved the Fae's tainted, modern day reputation, considering how well-known and admired the Gargoyles show is. However, I understand respect the choices you made, and it was pretty much obvious who they were in the long run.
1. "Despite"? Most of the versions I've seen are wingless.
2. Uh... it looked cool?
I don't recall saying no to the words "faery", "fairy" or "fae" because of perjorative connotations. I think the point I was making is that Oberon and Titania were "larger" than that. The Children of Oberon include those creatures traditionally associated with the "fae" but also various pantheons, etc.
Hi first time questioner, long time fan so here we gp
1)Does Titania still have feelings for Renard?
2)When Oberon sent all of the third race into the human world to learn humailty, what he was he doing for that time. Was he in the human world aswell?
3)Oberon said that they golaith could have killed him with the iron bell. If he had died what would have become of his children?(so to speak)
1. Feelings, yes. Romantic feelings - not much.
3. They'd probably become Titania's Children for the short term. Beyond that, I'm not to big on hypotheticals.
What I don't get is that if Oberan commanded them (his children) toï»¿ not interfere in human affairs why are so many of them interested in carving out their own little dominion across Earth? That just never really clicked in my head...
The "don't interfere" doctrine came LONG after they carved out their dominions, as you put it. It's relatively recent. (Just over a thousand years ago.)
1.How powerful is Oberon in the Gargoyles universe? I assume he cannot destroy the Planet, but does he have power limits, can he divert a large Meteor or Asteroid, or cause Earth to move away from it's position in Space?
2.If not/if he can how much stress would this put on him?
3.What is the most strenuous thing he's done outside of the series episodes/ever?
2.Additionally how would he and other characters like Thailog or Xanatos react to an extraterrestrial invasion in the present day, by the alien antagonists from "2198" in the present day, or a different species?
1. He definitely has limits.
2. I'm not going to get into hypotheticals. They don't interest me.
3. Uh, his wedding?
2 again. Strangely, see the answer to the ABOVE #2.
Thanks for clarifying the feudal society of the Third Race.
Given this feudal arrangement, where does that put the Weird sisters? They are the Norns of the Norse, but also the Greek and Roman Fates, Furies, and Graces. Does that mean they're part of the Aesir? Or part of the Greek gods?
They're part of nearly every pantheon, in a sense. But really they're not part of any. They report directly to Oberon.
From watching The Gathering and other episodes with the Children of Oberon in it, and from your reveals on s8, it appears to me that the Third Race have a feudal-like system, with Oberon as the high king (more or less), and others as his subjects or vassals. I think you have said that there are various "subsets," such as the Aesir and the Egyptian gods.
Do these "subsets" or "pantheons" have any political or social reality in Third Race society? What I mean is, are they just convenient catagories for mortals to refer to this or that Child of Oberon as belonging to a mythological category, or are they actual groups who associate(d) with one another as such, who have something political, social, or cultural in common with one another?
Yes, it's a FEUDAL system. Odin reports to Oberon, but the Aesir report to Odin. And etc.
1. Do the Third Race as a whole view Oberon as their most powerful member, or do they follow him for other reasons (royal bloodline, his overthrowing of Mab, etc.) Are there any who might stand a chance of overthrowing him, or would even want to?
2. Is Oberon regarded as a tyrant by his subjects? Obviously neither Puck nor Banshee wanted to go to the Gathering, but what is more general opinion of Oberon's rule?
3. Several of the Third Race are venerated as gods by mortals (such as Anubis and Odin), while Oberon himself, so far as I'm aware, has never been the object of a major religion. Is he at all irritaded by this, or would he even care?
1. Probably all of the above.
2. Nah, I think generally most are loyal to him and believe he's ruled relatively wisely. Although, "relatively" may be the key word, as their previous ruler was Mab.
The question in the last queue about whether Fox and David can vote after getting out of prison, and my own thoughts about the Third Race and Oberon's Law against interfering with mortals, has led me to this question: What does the Law of Oberon prevent and what does it allow, in terms of Oberon's Children participating in human politics? Do Anastasia Renard and Owen Burnett have U.S. citizenship, or if not could they get it if they wanted it? Can they vote? Can they get any more politically active than voting? (Leaving aside whether they actually want to do any of these things.)
My I-won't-be-held-to-this answer for the moment is that as long as they are living AS humans, they can PARTICIPATE in human affairs. They can eat lunch with other humans. They can see movies made by humans. They can conduct business with humans, and so, it follows, they can vote as humans vote... as long as they're not using magic to alter things.