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Scott Iskow writes...

Hi, Greg.

Just last night, I was talking to a few of my floormates, talking about childhood cartoons, toys, and the like, when the subject of the Disney Afternoon came up. After going through each cartoon in the order that they aired, we came to "Gargoyles," at which point I was surprised to learn that it was pretty much a consensus that the show was "amazing." I say "surprised" because I didn't figure these types of people to appreciate a show like that, yet here they all were, in the same room.

One person in particular appreciated the "Avalon" storyline. He loved the mythology, and didn't know until a chance encounter at the library after "Mark of the Panther" that Anansi existed outside of the show.

Just letting you know that there must be tons of people you reached with "Gargoyles" that aren't even part of the fandom.

Greg responds...

Great.

[But Scott, try to recruit them, eh? :)]

Response recorded on June 13, 2000

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"Leader of the Pack" Background memo...

ASK GREG is back up and running. (Thank you, Gorebash.)

Unfortunately, Murphy's Law in in effect, and I'm now swamped with work. (More on that tomorrow.) I'll try to get to your questions and comments A.S.A.P. In the meantime, I've watched another episode "Leader of the Pack". I've taken notes to write a ramble but I don't have time to compose it tonight. But I also wanted to post my July, '94 memo to Michael Reaves regarding his first draft outline on this episode. (Like the one I posted for "Reawakening".) I have a hard copy of this memo, but unfortunately -- there's that Murphy's Law again -- I don't seem to have a computer file for it. (Which, frankly, is truly bizarre.) Still, retyping this is faster than composing something original. But I don't know if I'll have time to retype the entire five page memo tonight. So bear with me. This could take a while... (I'll try to keep all the typos intact. And I'll add a few new comments in [brackets].)

Greg Weisman 7-2-94

NOTES ON OUTLINE for "Leader of the Pack"
Michael, I think we can focus the story a little more. And I think there's quite a bit of padding that we can trim down, but on the whole, a good start.

General Notes...

--Let's focus this by making it Lexington's story. A real companion piece to "Thrill of the Hunt". In that story, Lex was too trusting. In this he'll be hell-bent on REVENGE. That's today's theme. And today's lesson is about setting priorities -- and how revenge ain't a great one. Lex comes close to letting his lust for revenge take priority over his concern for his life and his friends. Same with the Pack. They break prison; they could head for Rio. But they want revenge on the gargoyles more. It gets them in trouble. Ironically, only Xanatos has his priorities straight. He didn't give a damn about revenge on the gargoyles. He just cared about his "friend" Fox and getting her released from her unfortunate incarceration. [A DESIGNING WOMEN reference -- Greg 2000]

--Given the above. Let's see Lex as the true monster he can be. As frightening as possible, as often as possible.

--The stuff w/Dingo's change of heart was nice. It gave me a great idea for a story about him trying to go straight, set in Australia during the WORLD TOUR. But I think it's out of place here. It's distracting to the main story. I don't want Dingo to start to turn yet. He didn't have to come back from Europe to help the others. Let's keep him gung-ho for now. (When we do the Pack Upgrade Story, in which Wolf will submit to Doc Sevarius' genetic treatment ala Talon, and Hyena and Jackal will undergo cyborgizing ala Coldstone, we'll plant the seed there that Dingo thinks things are getting carried away. He'll choose removable robot-armor, and we'll play some of these beats then.) [When you're working on 65 episodes you try not to waste anything. And the characters begin to define their own destinies. But you need to pace them. -- Greg 2000]

--Coyote's abilities need some clarification. Let's start by thinking this is a stranger wearing some kind of power-armor. Jet black, anubis-headed armor. We'll modify or harmonize Jonathan's voice. Then when he removes the dog-faced armored head, we reveal that it's Xanatos inside the armor. The audience will buy this because of "The Edge" story. When COYOTE has the "helmet" off, we'll use Jonathan's voice un-harmonized. But obviously for battle scenes he'll put the helmet back on. A slight clue that Coyote isn't the real Xanatos will be that Coyote seems more determined to get revenge than we'd normally expect from the rational Xanatos we've come to know and love. Then at the end, we'll reveal the robot beneath the Xanatos face. We also need to make a bigger deal of this reveal. I think it would be cool, if after the body is damaged beyond repair, the semi-damaged head, takes off, shooting into the sky like a comet, abandoning the Pack. At any rate, we can now have Coyote be very powerful throughout the episode, without our audience suspecting the truth. What can the Coyote "armor" (i.e. the Coyote/Xanaots robot) do? Does it have built-in jet-boots and weapons systems? Let's make it real tough and cool.

--In general, we need to be really careful not to let the Pack seem weak or incompetent. I doubt Elisa can outshoot them. They've been defeated twice already. If we don't up the ante, we've lost these characters as effective adversaries.

--The huge emphasis on updrafts can be dumped. We've already shown the gargoyles glide to and from Liberty Island in "The Edge". How far out in the water is this tanker? Better not to go into too much detail.

--Same with the Pack's search for the gargoyles. Why raise the issue about how easy it is to find the gargoyles? Besides, the method used here could take weeks, if not months. Let the gargoyles find the Pack. We can dump the CD-ROM disk.

--The mirrored shields was a good idea. But it pre-supposes a Lexington who is rational enough to use his head and come up with it. Not this story. But remember it for later use. [O.K. I guess some things did get wasted. --Greg 2000]

--We definitely don't need or want Derek in this story. If it comes before "Metamorphosis" than we don't want to mess with his loyalty to Xanatos. If it comes after, then obviously he's not Derek anymore, but Talon. Anyway, we won't need him. The way I figure it, Elisa's role in this story is fairly minimal. I didn't like her as victim/hostage, so I largely dumped her. So we can leave Derek out, as well.

--Fox should protect he guard first, then refuse to go. When she refuses Hyena's inclined to kill her too. Coyote prevents it by indicating there's no time. Also, I've cut the middle Fox scene 14. Better that the audience forget about her until the end.

Specific Notes & Questions....
[to follow tomorrow, hopefully...]


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Robin Wynn writes...

Hi Greg!
I figured I'd take this time just to state my opinions on the Avalon episodes. Especially since so many people seem to have disliked them (mostly I finally decided to do this after reading Alaxk's negative posts). I, on the other hand, LOVED them. I mean, I had wondered about other gargoyles living in the world, and it had already occured to me (before all the Avalon stuff) that unless the other gargs found some reason to come to New York, (and that seemed unlikely, seeing as mostly the gargs were unknown, and that gargoyles would want to stay at their homes to protect them) we would never see them, because our gargs certainly didn't seem to be going anywhere. The Avalon eps. were the perfect opportunity.

The Avalon eps. accomplished a lot of stuff that otherwise never could have been touched in the normal series. Also, as far as the quality of the show, if anything, i think it went up. From episode to episode you never knew what was going to happen. When would Goliath get home? Would Angela find a place to stay along the way, or would she follow them all the way to Manhattan(yeah..I actually wondered that for awhile)? What was happening back home?(which my only complaint would have to be that you didn't manage to do very many eps on this issue. Though i think you said that you had planned for one) Plus, though I'll admit a couple of the eps weren't that great, and maybe one or two that were, in my opinion, a little corny(ie Vendettas), but those eps existed in the series even before Avalon (ie. A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time, Silver Falcon, Protection, etc.), Most of the episodes were really good! (IE. Shadows of the Past, Future Tense, MIA, Grief, Bushido, etc.)

...ok...lets see..did I leave anything out...I think I've sorta lost my train of thought....what was I talking about?....

Greg responds...

You did o.k. (I kinda lost you there near the end too, though.)

Thanks. Look it worked for some people. Didn't for others. But I did the stories I wanted to do. Had to trust my instincts.

Response recorded on March 22, 2000

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The Gatekeeper writes...

In your ramblings on 1/24/00 you asked for what our reactions were to several of your more risky plot twists. It is hard to think back to when I first saw them, particularly when I rewatch the episodes and see new things; but I'll give it a go.
When the World Tour was originally airing, I found it interesting to begin with, but the major characters that I liked at the time were back in New York, so I would start groaning at another world tour episode. In retrospect, the world tour was probably a very good idea. Too often a series dies due to lack of new material. In doing the world tour, you opened up a large number of new ideas and possibilities.

I don't really remember my reaction to the clocktower beign blown up. I think I was surprised. It had become a standard set piece, and people generally don't go destroying things like that. I was not surprised at the return to the castle. With Xanatos' change in attitude after Alex's birth that move was being telegraphed.
I was also not suprised at the move out of the castle, Elisa was pushing so hard during the entire episode that Goliath didn't have much of an option.
Just my $.02 worth. I mainly just enjoyed being able to escape reality for a while and not be bored silly while exercising. (An hour on a rowing machine while watching the news can be mind numbingly dull).

Greg responds...

Thanks.

Response recorded on March 22, 2000

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E.J. Kalafarski writes...

Hi Greg. Did you walk into the World Tour with the intention that Goliath would loose all the items the Gargoyles had been safeguarding? I mean, by the time the travelers got home, Goliath had lost the Grimorum (destroyed), the Eye of Odin (recovered by Odin), and the Phoenix Gate (lost in time). I realize the Gargoyles picked up the Guatemalan Medallion along the way, but was the concept of Goliath returning home with none of these items a conscious decision on your part, or just the way things worked out? Thanks.

Greg responds...

Yes. Conscious. That's why I had him guarantee that no one would ever use those items again. Arrogance, even heroic arrogance, deserves comeuppance. And I liked the irony that it was Goliath himself who first used the Gate and the Eye. No one takes either item from him. He chooses to use them.

Response recorded on March 21, 2000

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Ray Kremer writes...

Greg,
Another enormous fan of the show here. Gargoyles is truely the Babylon 5 of animation. (And if you haven't experienced Babylon 5, it's recommended. The reference is to the interlinking plot elements that gives the show a "big picture" quality.)
One of your ramblings asked for comments about blowing up the clock tower, moving back into the castle, etc. I think those were great moves, and fit well into the story. I always hoped they would make it back into the castle someday. Even the world tour eps were great, the only annoying thing was we went through several rerun cycles before getting to "The Gathering". On a straight run through of the eps, I don't think there were too many world tour eps at all.
Anyway, there needs to be a question here. In "Metamorphosis", the 'death' of the Sevarius was so convincing because just as Derek was about to get the antidote shot, the gargoyles burst in the door, threw Anton into the eel tank (breaking the antidote vial), and escaped. Now, this works out the way Xanatos wanted, but how could they have set it up so perfectly, with such wonderful timing? There was no way to tell when the gargoyles would make the rescue attempt, or which door they come through, or where they would be throwing people.
Thanks again for the show, and count one more vote that it comes back someday. (Speaking of which, using the net to ignore TGS and the time gap - I'd go for that.)

Greg responds...

Re: World Tour. Yeah, reruns killed us. (Or at least maimed us.) But what could we do? We had been given way too little time to produce the 52 episode second season. We just couldn't get them all ready fast enough. And, unfortunately, the big delay took place during the Tour.

Re: Metamorphosis. Actually, if you assume that Xanatos and Sevarius knew exactly when Goliath, Brooklyn and Lex broke in, and had some covert way of keeping track of their progress, it wasn't too hard to rig the "death scene".

Response recorded on March 17, 2000

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Blaise writes...

Hey Greg! Just read your ramble about taking risks on the show. I have to tell you, I liked that.
Actually the first thing that got my attention was in the first five episodes when a) the majority of the clan was massacred, b) there were actual children (eggs) that vanished, and c) a character who was introduced as a "good guy" and the hero's love to boot ended up a dangerous villainess. I liked that. I wasn't initially as surprised at the gargoyles moving to the clock tower--I guess I kind of expected them to leave the castle sometime (because of Xanatos and all).
During the second season, however, the permanent changes really started hitting me. Elisa's brother and three other humans are turned into Mutates and NOT CHANGED BACK at the end of the episode. Hell, the ep ends with Xanatos pretty much triumphant, Brooklyn depressed, Elisa crying and the other gargoyles troubled (at least, that's how I interpreted it). And of course, Demona gaining the ability to turn human during the day! The Pack's permanent body upgrades (and Dingo's eventual reformation). Owen's stone hand--quite an ending that. And of course the addition of Angela to the cast. I always find it interesting when a new character is added to the show as a REGULAR.
Then there's the Avalon World tour. I got to admit, that's gutsy. Yeah, I got annoyed sometimes--4th or 5th ep I started wondering "when are they going to get home?"--but then I realized I just had to sit back and enjoy the ride. And I did.
The Xanatos family--I didn't really see that coming (how many other characters in animated afternoon shows get married and have kids like this?). The Clocktower's destruction--I could have killed you guys for that cliff-hanger. ;-) I did not expect that, but after it happened, I figured Xanatos would help them and they'd live in the Castle again. But that was only AFTER you destroyed the place they lived in for the majority of the show.
This is a book now, so I'll just finish by saying this: You guys did a bang-up job!

Greg responds...

Wow. Thanks. I was particularly proud of the Fox/David marriage and child thing. I mean, he's the bad guy after all, and she ain't much better. And yet...

Hey, you know it actually is working. I feel like we've got a substantial back/forth dialogue going over the last few posts.

Response recorded on March 17, 2000

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Abigail Thorne writes...

I've been a fan of Gargoyles since it first came on--it's one of my all time favorites. I just wanted to thank you and your staff for creating such an imaginative, complex world for viewers like me to escape into for a half hour. Hopefully, you'll be able to continue your work on the show one day.

Okay, here's the question (I have others, but you said ask one at a time, which makes sense). Elisa, Goliath, and Bronx were gone for many months during their Avalon adventures. Explaining their whereabouts to Matt Bluestone and the rest of the Maza's was no problem since they are all in on the clan's secret. But what about Elisa's superiors at the police station? How did she explain what she had been up to for the past two or three months?

Greg responds...

Largely, she didn't. And that created trust problems with Chavez. Unfortunately, I didn't really have the time to deal with those problems. So I partially used TURF to reaffirm her committment to the job.

As to what she said, I think it was something along the lines of I needed some personal time. I tried to call Matt and my parents, etc.

(Also keep in mind, that after GOLEM and especially NIGHT OF THE PANTHER, I'm sure some communication made it back to Chavez. Not satisfactory communication. But something. And it doesn't hurt that Elisa has a great record and that her dad is a respected Sergeant.)

Response recorded on March 11, 2000

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Ed writes...

Nokkar is trapped on Earth with no way of knowing how his people (or his enemies) are doing or even if they are still alive.
1. Does he still believe that they are out there?
2. Does he believe he will ever regain contact in his lifetime?
3. Does he have a family or relations that he has left behind?

Greg responds...

1. Yes.

2. Yes. He has renewed faith after "Sentinel".

3. Yes.

Response recorded on February 24, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

You've stated that gargoyles, in your vision at least, came about naturally in the way that all other living things did, and were not creations of faerie or human magic. I certainly feel that that's the most probable explanation for them. But something that I would like to raise is this - in the Gargoyles Universe, would it even be possible to create a genuinely sentient race using magic?

My own feeling is that it isn't, based on what I saw in the series. Oberon, one of the most powerful magic-users in the Gargoyles Universe, animates a number of statues in "The Gathering Part Two" to aid him against Goliath and his clan, but the statues remained made out of stone rather than becoming flesh and blood, and showed no sign of true sentience in battling the clan, no more so than - say - the Steel Clan. The same thing was the case with Raven's "totem beasts" in "Heritage", who, when animated by him, remained made out of wood and also behaved more like automatons than like truly alive and intelligent beings. And in "Golem", the Golem that was created by Rabbi Loew likewise didn't come across to me as truly sentient, but just a walking clay statue - it never even spoke except when Renard was possessing it. (The Golem did show some dim signs of genuine awareness, but not on the level of a gargoyle, certainly).

So, what I'm basically asking here is - aside from your belief that gargoyles were not created by magic - would it even be possible in the Gargoyles Universe to magically create a truly sentient being or race? Or is such a thing beyond the capabilities of any being other than God?

Greg responds...

I think it would be basically impossible to create sentience from scratch. Which doesn't mean that someone like the Golem or Matrix might not evolve into true sentience. (Neither is there yet, in my opinion.)

Response recorded on February 23, 2000


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