A Station Eight Fan Web Site
JEFF BENNET and frank welker are profesional voice actors. what are they like?
(i.e. they're both very sweet.)
Just out of curiosity: if #3 and #4 had been done as a television episode of "Gargoyles", whom would you most liked to have cast in the roles of the two leading new characters introduced in those issues (the young woman in the Labyrinth and the White House steward who's a member of the Illuminati)?
I have voices in my head, but for the time being I'm making a conscious choice to leave them to reader imagination.
1. While #1 and 2 gave us some new scenes and had some occuring in a different order than "The Journey", was there anything that just didn't make the cut in the episode or the comic?
2. Do any of the voice actors as well as others who worked on the show pick up the comic as well?
2. Don't know.
(Lexington boots up his computer, signs onto the 'net, types in a web address, and there we see it)
ISSUE 2: THE JOURNEY
"Medieval scholar Lennox Macduff," eh? What research does he do? Read his old diaries?
On that note, the irony of A.D.A Yale's statements, nicely contrasted by the events happening in our story, have always amused me - especially "Our children are not safe!"
Xanatos, Mr. Duval, and the Illuminati - I have to admit, I don't think I ever really understood what was going on here from the TV version - I think I always assumed that Alex's piggyback ride was on the way to the phone, Xanatos following Owen's implied advice. But here, his smirk makes the point much clearer - it's not wise to ceep the Illuminati waiting, but Xanatos doesn't care. Baby Alex needs some daddy time!
But I can just see Owen back at the phone: "I'm sorry, Mr. Duval, I'm afraid that Mr. Xanatos is in the middle of something vitally important - it cannot wait, and requires his full attention. He hopes you understand."
Broadway and Angela - I don't recall the TV version calling it a reading lesson, so nice touch there. But I don't think that Shakespeare is the best material to learn to read (and frankly, I'm not that fond of reading Shakespeare at all - seeing it, however, is another story).
Angela's been off of Avalon for the better part of a year, but still, like Broadway with literacy, she has so much to learn.
Semi-random thought: How's Hudson's progress towards learning to read? I don't remember seeing anything of that since High Noon.
Brooklyn's line - "Parting is such sweet sorrow" - knowing what I do now, I wonder if this was a subtle foreshadowing of Timedancer - he parts with the Clan for forty years, but finds love.
After Vinnie leaves, Goliath's statement about life is very true - life is a journey, and the road is often hard. But we can't let that stop us, for each new day brings an exciting new adventure. Don't think about the journey's end, because as someone said, destination is a state of mind.
Not much else to say, now. Some people have commented that they miss the voices, but I can here them still, playing in my head with perfect clarity - right down to Margot Yale's voice not being Marina's.
So, to Greg Weisman, and everyone else at Creature Comics: keep up the good work.
(Lex logs off, and shuts down the computer.)
In my mind, Margot is always played by Marina. Tress is a wonderful actress of course, but Margot is Marina.
I just recently found this site, and am posting for the first time. I'd like to say that this provides a very nice opportunity to fans.
I also think that if you get to do the Halloween double date story, there would be an appropriate symmetry to Elisa's date being Morgan because between the four characters there are only two actors. Of course I realize that, the way things are, the most likely way for the story to appear would be in the new comic book, which doesn't have any actors.
In my head, there are always actors. I try to hear the voices...
Of course, starting in issue #3 we introduce new characters, one of whom has a speaking part, so I cast the character in my head, so I could hear her voice as well.
More new characters speak in issue #4, and I cast them too.
Keeps me honest.
Thanks for your "Possession" ramble, Greg. (Just think - all that you've got left is "Hunter's Moon" and you're done with Season Two!) A few comments.
That opening with Xanatos hunting Coldstone down in the Himalayas makes more sense to me now that I know about that Marvel Comic story that you were going to write but never got to do.
The first time that I saw the episode, I initially thought that what Xanatos and Owen were trying to do (and needed more than technology to do) was repairing Coldstone after the damage done in the recent battle, but afterwards I understood that their goal was transferring Desdemona and Iago to Coldfire and Coldsteel. (And I agree that it would be like Xanatos to say "Chin up" to Coldstone while his head is disconnected from the rest of him.)
I like Alex's winged teddy bear, too.
I agree that Coldfire is a much better name than Goldfire; it certainly fits the pattern with Coldstone and Coldsteel in the way that Goldfire wouldn't. (It even makes me wonder how "Goldfire" was even a candidate to begin with.)
Another thing that I picked up on in later viewings was the consequences of Brooklyn's "Me three - except that you don't need three" line.
One of the big elements for me in the episode is how the voice actors demonstrate their versatility (as you pointed out); instead of taking the customary approach in cartoons of "when people switch minds, they also switch voice actors", we here got to hear, say, Bill Faggerbakke and Brigitte Bako altering their delivery to sound more like Michael Dorn and C. C. Pounder. And it was a very admirable performance.
One of my favorite bits: Puck-as-Coldstone saying, "Naughty, naughty, sneaking up like that on Uncle Coldstone". (As much from how Dorn delivered it as from the actual words.)
And I think that we can all agree that this is just the way that Puck *would* educate Alex.
Again, thanks for the ramble.
I can never praise our voice cast (and voice director) Jamie Thomason enough. We were constantly presenting them with new challenges, and they ALWAYS rose to the occassion.
I just read your ramble on "The Reckoning," which is one of my favorite episodes, and just wanted to contribute my two cents. Ever since "Sanctuary," I had been wondering what would happen when Demona and Angela met again, and I'm happy to say that this episode did not disappoint. For an episode with a very large supporting cast (that also introduced several new characters to boot), it carried itself amazingly well.
It flowed wonderfully, and as you pointed out, contained a lot of memorable lines. Jim Belushi is not my favorite actor, but I loved him as the voice of Fang. I think Fang just might be one of his best roles. His delivery of the one-liners was superb.
If I had to pick a favorite visual moment, it would have to be the shot of Demona, Thailog, and the clones right before the end of the second act. It was like looking at a negative photographic image of Goliath's clan. Very chilling.
A few things I found interesting: Thailog and Sevarius in the same room together. I suppose it's not too surprising, since mentally, Thailog was programmed with Xanatos's slant on life. Xanatos kept the gargoyles alive because he thought they'd be useful (or I'm just going by what he told Goliath at the end of "City of Stone"). Similarly, I'm wondering if that was Thailog's line of thinking when Sevarius was hired to engineer the clones: the doctor does come in handy.
Also, concerning the relationship between Demona and Angela: I think that Demona does love Angela. But I find it interesting that she told Goliath to save their daughter instead of doing it herself. The thing she seemed more solidly focused on was punishing Thailog, because Thailog had just delivered a double whammy by not only ending their relationship, but also splicing her DNA with the human she seems to hate most. It almost looks like Demona loves revenge more than Angela. I look forward to seeing what happens between them in the comic. Your comments on those three small words were very intriguing.
All in all, a very well-done episode that exceeded my expectations. I will be posting comments on the new comic at a later date, but for now, let me just say thanks, and best of luck with your future endeavors.
Jim is also an extremely nice guy and really fun to work with. And I tend to agree with you. Fang may have been one of his best cast roles ever.
Sunday, June 25, 2006: 3RD DAY OF THE GATHERING OF THE GARGOYLES
So how is everything going? Good I hope. Only one more day of Gathering of the Gargoyles. I'm sure everyone is having a great time out there at the gathering. Everyone must be really busy trying to get to everything there. Just curious, but how many sessions are going on out there? Do people have time inbetween sessions to do anything else? Did you do any sight seeing in L.A.? I hear that next year the gathering will be in Tenessee near the Smokey Mountains. That would be so cool to go to. There must be a lot of sight seeing to do for the next gathering, that is if you have time to get away from the convention. I've been to Tennessee once up in the Smokey Mountians. I barely remember it, but the few pictures I have in my mind are of very beautiful scenery. I can picture the mountains with dark clouds around the top of them. Maybe I can get a plane ticket and head out there next year not only for the gathering, but to recharge my memory of the scenery. I think that if there was another gargoyle clan out there in the U.S. (besides the Manhattan clan), they should be located in a place like that. The mountains would be great cover, and there are little towns all around in there that they could protect if they felt the need to. I'm really hoping that I can convince someone to go with me now that I'm getting myself psyched for the Smokey Mountains.
Since the gathering is almost over for 2006, I might as well get your opinion on it. Did you think that the turn out was better or worse this year than other gatherings? Did a lot of voice talents from the Gargoyles show come to the convention? By the way, how many of these gatherings have you attended? I know that this one in 2006 is the 10th annual one, but did you go to the first few, like the 1st or 2nd gathering? Who exactly started these gatherings (don't just say fans, please)? Do you think that more talents from the show will come to next years (2007) gathering?
Well, now that I've questioned you out, I might as well mention a few things that happened today since this is sort of a journal of what's going on during the gathering. Today is Sunday, so of course church. After that, we (my family) had tacos and I slept for a couple of hours. I woke up to find nothing great on TV or on TIVO. Later, my parents and I watched some murder mystery movie where some woman was being tricked into thinking she was crazy by her husband and best friend so they could get rid of her and get all her money that she'd made. It was interesting. Not as good as it would have been to be at the gathering (I had to throw that in there).
When I mentioned church, it got me thinking. I know religion is a touchy subject for a lot of people, but I was wondering if any gargoyles were religious in some way. If they are, do they practice human religions or do they have one of their own? I could see a clan living in a big church building with the stain glass windows and such, with them posing on top on the steeple or roof during the day and then protecting the town at night. I can just imagine the picture in my head. It would look rather gothiky though.
Now that's my ramble/journal for today. Just one more for tomorrow. I'm sure you'll miss my long talks about nothing (probably not). I hope all is well, and thank you for your time.
Turn out for 2006 was high for a Gathering. Having the con in L.A. always helps, because we can get a TON of special guests (because they're all local) that we couldn't afford to bring to a more distant location. Someone from the Gathering would have to give you exact figures, but I believe the attendance was probably our second highest ever - second only to G2001, which was also in L.A.
We did have quite a few voice actors, including Keith "Goliath" David, Thom "Lexington" Adcox, Brigitte "Angela" Bako, Elisa "Obisiana" Gabriellie, Morgan "Petros" Sheppard, Jim "Dingo" Cummings and others. Plus quite a few voice actors from WITCH and other shows as well.
I've attended all TEN Gatherings. It might seem like quite an achievement, but really it's all thanks to the fans, who pay my way for every non-L.A. convention and put me up (and put up with me) at the L.A. cons. There are a handful of fans whom have also been to all ten conventions. They are my heroes.
"Who exactly started these gatherings (don't just say fans, please)?" - Okay, I won't say fans. I'll say FAN. May "Elisa Maza" Li (I hope I'm spelling that correctly) was THE fan that got the ball rolling by almost single-handedly organizing the first Gathering in NYC. Burned her out so much that she didn't attend again until this past year, when she was given the Fan Guest of Honor award. Of course since then there's been a long list of people who have contributed. I'd list 'em, but I'm sure I'd forget some people, and I don't want to offend.
For info on Gargoyles religion -- which is both Animistic and Monotheistic -- check the archives under GARGOYLE CUSTOMS.
In a word, the comic is phenomenal.
I should point out that I was in the show's target demographic during its first run (not so much anymore, just graduated college). I was skeptical about how it would work as a comic book, but that all melted away when I bought Gargoyles #1. It was pure joy.
First off, I think that translating "The Journey" as the first several issues works extremely well. For the first time, I feel like we're finally seeing what's going on in your head, without the watchful eye of S&P censoring what we see. We all knew that something like the "monster-loving whore" commen was missing in "The Journey;" you can't really show racism unless you can show the bigotry that goes with it. And Elisa's response is very Elisa-esque.
Finally seeing the Matt/Chavez scene was a treat for fans who could only read it here up until now. And for that matter, I think we all knew that Elisa wore something sexier to bed than that old-woman nightgown.
What looks good in comic form: The Gargoyles escaping from the clock tower. Castaway blowing up his statue (which thankfully doesn't look like Goliath anymore). Sunsets. The recap spread on page 12-13 is gorgeous, and makes me wonder if we'll see something analagous to Keith David's narrative intro in each issue.
I might (and I stress MIGHT) go so far as to suggest after just one issue that the comic format serves Gargoyles better than animation. Of course, there are drawbacks. We lose the magnificent voice work of some of these actors. We lose the Keith David-narrated show opening. We lose the ability to show some of the character's aerial moves in action. But the advantages are huge. Storylines aren't constricted to 22 minute, and S&P isn't compromising the story you're trying to tell. In fact, because it's completely common for a comic franchise to have more than one title in print at once, I feel like series like Timedancer and 2198 were made for this kind of thing.
Anyway, that's just my two cents as a fan. The comic format seems very natural for Gargoyles, which is a relief. Clearly, I'm looking forward to new stories in #3 more than anything else. All in all, thumbs up on the comic.
I'm personally LOVING doing Gargoyles as a comic. I miss the voice work too, but I do feel that our series' voice work was so strong and distinctive, that if I do my job right (writing the dialogue) that you can almost HEAR the voices (and the music) in your head. That's my goal anyway. That and doing radio plays at the Gathering, (hopefully with some of the cast present).
When this ep first aired, I wasn't quite sure what to make of it.
We had Wolf going after Goliath and Hudson along with Hakon-in-an-axe, and some other guy along the fringes as just comedy relief (these are my initial impressions, mind you). Nothing much more than fighting goes on, along with the revelation that Wolf is Hakon's descendent (and I may be alone, but I rather like that connection).
Regardless, the end made me laugh out loud (and I loved the in-joke of Vinnie humming the theme song).
Over time, I've come to view this episode as being perhaps the most problematic of the series...but I enjoy watching it.
I agree with you on the inherent problems of the piece, Greg. The animation was disappointing--the fight scenes were serviceable but not really involving for the most part, and some comedy was nearly lost. It took a couple viewings before I noticed that Goliath elbowed Hudson in the face while preparing to hit Wolf--the hits occur too quickly for the joke to really pay off--and the second time Goliath nearly elbows Hudson doesn't read that way to me (it just seems awkward that second time).
Then there are the missed opportunities. The mace, of course, is the biggest. As nice as the "battle-axe night" line sounds, I'd rather have the mace. Actually, there could still be a fun line put in there, I think. Maybe not "mace night," Todd's right that doesn't have the same ring to it, but Wolf doesn't strike me as picky about specific terms for melee weapons. "Tonight is CLUB night" would have a nice double meaning to it, or "Tonight is WARHAMMER night" (probably please fans of that old pen-and-paper RPG of the same name). Sorry, I digress.
And yes, I would have liked more resonance to Hudson's battle with Hakon. You get a *little* of "Hudson taking revenge" when he gives a little chuckle as he leaves Hakon trapped in the crusher, but I would have liked more. Love the "clan-slaughterer" title, though.
These complaints aside, I rather enjoy the episode. Vinnie actually helps. It's nice to see what happened to a supposedly "random" person due to the gargoyles' actions. I raised an eyebrow at ret conning him into the role of "big nose" on Air Fortress 1, but I was willing to shrug my shoulders and go with it. I had not seen THE CAGE when I first saw VENDETTAS so the bit with Sevarius getting kidnapped left me mystified and frustrated (it did not stop me from thinking Talon was the kidnapper when I finally did see CAGE, he and Goliath have *very* similar silhouettes).
At any rate, I did like the idea of a "regular person" taking on the gargs. Losing his motorcycle and TWO jobs as well--heck, I'D demand satisfaction for that, too! And I believed Mr. Carter was a real gun (loved the Acme reference, BTW--didn't get the "Kotter" reference because that was before my time). Of course, neither Vinnie nor his gun is quite "regular." Vinnie explains himself (justifies himself, I guess) to Mr. Carter, earning stares from people passing him on the street. Vinnie doesn't seem to notice, though. Of course, not paying attention is what gives him such a difficult night to begin with. My favorite is where he tells "Mr. C" about the second job he lost and then turns around the corner and is surprised that the gargs are gone (as though the world stops when he reminisces). I guess this is part of your point on vengeance, Greg; Vinnie is so wrapped up in "creaming" Goliath--"the Big One"--that he doesn't notice imminent hurt/humiliation until it happens.
But he does not give up! When all other foes are defeated, Vinnie is still the last man standing! I'll come back to him before the end.
On to Hakon and Wolf. I didn't immediately cotton to Hakon being the axe. I noticed it laughed in the car and sounded similar to Wolf, but only when Hakon appeared as himself at the end of Act 1 did I realize who it was.
And Hakon has a LOT of powers. I guess it's a combination of being around for 1,000 years in a magical cave, being full of hate, and possessing a blood descendent that allows him to do what he does with Wolf's body. Flight telekinesis, disappearing, illusions (Hudson sees Goliath as Wolf), and the ability to become insubstantial…I wouldn't mind being able to do that! Hakon was right; Wolf was a fool to give up that power before the gargs were defeated. Of course, Wolf's always been a bit bull-headed about doing things his way and being in charge.
I had no problems with Wolf being descended from Hakon. Quite the contrary, I saw a wealth of opportunity in this development. Of course, Wolf and Hakon don't specifically tell anyone but the audience about this connection so I don't know how anything would develop. But the seed's there.
One interesting point that's made about vengeance in this episode: sometimes, the feelings of vengeance are not mutual. Hudson views Hakon as the ultimate evil, but Hudson barely matters to Hakon--the old gargoyle is just another obstacle to get to Goliath. To Wolf, Goliath, the "alpha male" gargoyle, is the ultimate target, but I somehow doubt if Goliath views Wolf that way. He views Wolf as a powerful and tenacious enemy, sure, but I don't think Goliath singles Wolf out from the rest of the Pack as a "prime" foe. As for Goliath and Hakon, yes there is resonance there, and in the past Hakon was definitely a focal point of Goliath's vengeance, but I think after SHADOWS OF THE PAST, Goliath's enmity for Hakon is no longer as strong. Hakon on the other hand, has lost no hatred for Goliath.
And none of them have any clue that Vinnie even exists until he walks right up to Goliath and shoots a pie in G's face.
That last part still puts a smile on my face. I had not expected the pie, but in a way it makes perfect sense. Why would Vinnie want to KILL Goliath? The gargoyles have humiliated Vinnie multiple times, cost him property and two jobs, but he's still alive, in good health, and not TOO badly off if he can afford Mr. Carter. Based on that, a pie in the face seems a reasonable retaliation.
One bit of dialogue I rather like in this episode is this one:
Wolf: "Come on, are you afraid to die like a man?"
Goliath: "What would a mutate werewolf know about being a man?"
That, coupled with the scene of Wolf scrounging for food in a dumpster, show just how far this former TV idol has fallen. And all just to get Goliath.
I find Hakon's "death" an interesting contrast to the Captain's back in SHADOWS OF THE PAST. With the Captain it was a feeling of peace and ascendancy. Hakon's seems more violent (I love the little electric bolt at the end). It makes sense to me.
I hadn't realized this epsiode had a different voice director until I saw the credits. Honestly, there was no decline in quality so far as I could tell. So take a bow, Greg. And if you see Clancy Brown, tell him to take one, too--he differentiated between Wolf and Hakon very well.
So VENDETTAS, while obviously problematic, is still fun for me.
I'm fond of it. That was the first episode I ever voice directed in its entirety. Of course, I chose it on purpose because it had such a small cast of TOTAL PROS, who knew me and would forgive my ... uh... shortcomings. Ed Asner, Jeff Bennett, Clancy Brown, Jim Cummings, Keith David. Couldn't ask for a more solid, talented and UNDERSTANDING cast for my first effort.