Heather N. Allen writes...

City of Stone...what a great miniseries! Not one of my specific favorite sets of episodes, but I love how everything storywise came together ('what a tangled web we weave'!) I ADORE continuing story lines, which is why I never got into many 'sitcom' cartoons. (I DO admit having a weakness for "Freakazoid", though...)

And thanks for explaining that whole screw up with Demona looking too old in that 'new' scene with the Captain of the Guard. That has always annoyed the heck outta me, but I wasn't thinking along the lines of the poor animators trying to keep things straight. Considering I want to go into some type of animation, I feel guilty for not being more thoughtful! ^_^

Now, on to some questions/musings/etc...

"If it turns out short, we can add the bit about 'Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane', which I've left out for now."

1>You planned to use this witches' prophecy from the play in the show? How were you going to fit it in exactly?

This was one of my favorite ironies in the play (now that I've read it!), right next to the prophecy about Mac not being killed 'by a man of woman-born'. And if you think about it, that irony _was_ portrayed in the series. Demona isn't woman-born, and she certainly ain't a man! ^_~

"He gets in his helicopter heading for Studio, with Derek at pilot."

2> You mean you didn't have "Metamorphosis" planned out at this point in time? Or were you just confused? Or am I just confused...?

"Duncan goes to destroy them starting with Demona."

3> Whoa, hold on! I just thought of something...how'd Duncan know about Gil's feud with Demona specifically? Did Gil tell him? And did he pass on the legend of "The Demon" down to Canmore? How did the Eternal Hunt for the Demon get passed down (I mean, how did future Canmores specifcally know to hunt HER?)

"Duncan is killed in some way. (Preferably the same way Find & Gil bought it.)"

4> Well, we know he DIDN'T die this way. How did that whole magical orb thing come into the picture? Who's idea was it? (Yours? Mr. Reaves?)

"...To Demona, who is having a grand old time with the 'stoners'..."
"...She's practically giddy, talking to herself and the 'stoners'..."
"...In the skies above Manhattan, Xanatos & Goliath fly abreast for a moment as they 'pass gas'..."

>No questions here, I just thought that was funny. ^_~

>Hmm...I just ran this by spell check, and it suggested "manatees" for "Xanatos". How the heck do you get _manatees_ outta that?! There's no "X" in manatees! Sheesh!

Ciao, thanks again!
~H\A~

Entity writes...

Hi Greg,

We've all been awaiting this ramble for a long time, and no doubt, the coming weeks will be VERY enjoyable. :)

CITY OF STONE, PT 1.

I'll admit to you that the opening terrorist sequence wasn't all that effective to me. It came off rushed. But it provided an excellent transition to Demona. And then... THE FLASHBACK. The first of many. My God, this was glorious. I always imagine that if I were to ever show off Gargoyles to someone new in under 5 minutes I'd show them this flashback. Even though deductive reasoning filled the holes that this flashback does in, it was still such an experience actually seeing it take place, like witnessing history. The Wyvern Massacre was the defining moment of the series. And now, to see the behind-the-scenes was breathtaking beyond description. Demona's tearful turn to stone, then horrific discovery at sundown were amazing. That 'blood-curdle' music is just great, too.

Let's see, I can't go on like this with every scene, so I'll try to sum up from here.

You mentioned it was originally going to be a three-parter. Allow me to accidentally spit my drink all over my keyboard at reading that. Even now, I think about how much better it could've told its story with five or even six parts. Just three? Impossible. There is so much jammed in there. Too much, really. I'm glad you're here for insight, because I'll be honest: I got scarcely any of what you had in mind for various characters' motivations and inter-relating. Everything was crunched to 'sound bites' and didn't get enough flesh for me to interpret what you were aiming for. Of course, I got all the necessary things needed to understand the flow of the story, but I regret not getting the rest...

This is completely random, but I just thought I'd say that when Macbeth removes his Hunter's Mask later, in Part 4 I think, I like how his hair was ruffled. A nice touch. Very appreciated.

Anyway, to do with Part 1, I have really one more comment. I think the "mistake" you made with the Weird Sisters in their portrayel in this multi-parter has to do with just one key scene... aww, crap, here I go referring all the way to Part 4 again. Oh well, the scene in question is the very end, the "they are our responsibility... our children... that is a story for another day" scene. Up until then, I believe our impression of the Sisters was of benevolent helpers, like you wanted us to believe, according to your memos. However, in this scene, they suddenly "reveal" that they actually had a reason for helping them. That there is a greater design. That Demona and Macbeth have destinies to fulfill. I, and I'm sure most other people, suddenly got insanely excited thinking that D&M were going to be instrumental in saving the world from some great prophecy or something. But as it turns out, it's just a petty strike on an island...

Just my take. (I'd be interested - if this doesn't sound like me usurping your forum, Greg - in what others' takes were.)

Lastly, I just thought I'd mention that, ironically, I was talking with a friend this morning about the play Macbeth. I mentioned Gargoyles and off-handedly about its superior historical accuracy, to which Friend reponded that Macbeth, the play, was fiction. I insisted there really was a Macbeth and Duncan, but he was convinced otherwise. Interesting, huh?

Of course, I myself thought it was all made-up by you and the makers of the show till I looked it up in my Encyclopedia, to see what kind of historical "damage" you were doing in drawing these elaborate tales set in real countries' pasts... heh.

Dracolich writes...

Hello again.

After checking a great website called Encyclopedia Mythica (probably the most extensive list of mythology) I discovered an interesting tidbit on a being that might make the unusual depiction of the Banshee in the Garg universe understandible. The creature there is called a Baobhan Sith, and on a different webpage, it is considered to be another name for the Banshee.
This being is supposed to be a fairy-vampire. Interesting to note that it is supposed to wear green clothes, like the Banshee of the series. Interesting.

Tim writes...

City of Stone 1 ramble:

The Revelation about the Weird Sisters double agent motiviations was a thrill to read. It worked on me exactly like you said it did...did you have a camera inside our heads? Those are still the most wonderfully mysterious fey ever...I loooove Kathie Soucie's voicework.

In the top 5 of the most heart and gut wrenching scenes ever, Demona turinng to stone with a tear in her eye, the massacre finding scene (I thought "COLDSTONE!!!" when she picked up the piece of face) and her tearful goodbye to Goliath and any hope of a non-vengeful life.

1. Eggs: I never gave any thought to the eggs, but once they were shown driven away, it just opened up a whole new subplot to wonder about.

2. MacBeth, I was wondering about, he was neither a hero, nor a villian, something grey in between, which is always the best character. Young Macbeth and Young Gruoch certainly had to grow up fast. Loved the battle scene between Young MacBeth the Hunter and his "Nooooo!" Bodhe seemed to be a shrewed negotiator...probalby would make a good ambasador.

3. I really thought that was how Demona got her immortality, from the Grimorum. Why the heck not? Xanatos seemed to be desperate enough to trust her. Either he would have used the spell on Fox if it worked on him, or he didn't love her enough to ask her about it...wouldn't he have tested it on somebody first?

4. Yeah, Owen being caught by the spell was a bit cheating...but that's okay. :) Never even thought about the "tricky one" comment until I saw the Gathering. Once again, love the latin spells, gives the show authenticity, plus latin sounds just really darn cool and mystical.

Overall, the fact that this show provides wonderful backstories for the "villians" in a FOUR PARTER episode just goes to show why this is on nearly everybody's top 5 best episodes list.

Questions: 1. What did Standards and Practices think about the implications of Goliath and Elisa's relationship by the end of the series?

2. Who came up with the brilliant idea of the access code being "ALONE"? That just fits so well. Thanks so much for these episode rambles!

Yadira - xena_lawless@hotmail.com writes...

Comment:

Shutting off the broadcast, did not make me think that would work in breaking the spell and I thought it foolish of Xanatos to be so sure that it would work. I thought I was going to see a bit of hesitation and uncertainty in Xanatos right before he shuts off the broadcast. It seemed too simple a solution. In many experiences, it's easier to start something, but a bit more complicated to end it.

I did pick up on the fact that Demona recognized and knew the true identity of the person behind the mask when they felt each other's pain, an incident which I found rather interesting and wanted to learn more about it.

I do like Xanatos' line "You want vengeance or a solution." Something a true businessman would say. Put all your personal feelings aside and let's get right down to business , this needs to be fixed right away. That line is totally Xanatos.

Then at the end when Xanatos and Goliath shook hands...I didn't like it. I thought Goliath too forgiving....I mean shaking the hands of a man who's attacked you, paid people to attack you, manipulated you, and evicted you from the only home you've ever known....to shake hands with that man after only one situation where they had to work together and call a truce....for me...it was too soon. I think they should have just nodded to each other
when they parted...letting the other know that they appreciated the other's help, but I still don't trust you. Sometimes I don't blame Demona for being so upset at Goliath and calling him a fool....because sometimes he's too trusting and forgiving....but then again that's why I love him.

Thanks again, Greg, for helping to create a fascinating
series which I will continue to watch on tape and adore.

JADE writes...

Hi Greg,
Your always asking for some feed-back, and well here's mine, well it's more of my thoughts of a certain character--Demona. In the show she always seemed to filled with so much hatred, hatred for every one it seemed. Seeing the person she was before and after the raid of the castle really made me think. Having my own bad days, like every one else, I know what it feels like to "hate" the world, and during those days I realise it takes more strength to stay mad at the world than it does to "like" it. So thinking of Demona always being so full hate all the time is really sad, of course in a way she put herself in it...it was her own hatred for humans that did her brothers and sisters "in". Of course she'll never understand this, I guess her pride gets in her way some times, like every one does. In closeing I would like to say that I think Demona was a good character to throw in, it made the viewers see what a long time of hatred does to the heart.

Dexter writes...

Why is Angela so DAMN sexy? Oh I love her SO much! Dude, do you think she'd go for a blonde-haired punk? I mean, her own dad even went for a human, so maybe there's hope for me yet. Hmm...I bet you're gonna give me a smart-ass remark like "she's taken" or something cuz "gargoyles mate for life" BUT Demona proved that it is not true! Go me! Long live the beautiful Angela!

WereFox writes...

Greg

Just read your rambling about COS part 2 and I must confess I didn't ever pick up on Goliaths intention on killing Demona. It makes sense even though it would have been futile. Still, say he did try it (Big IF I know), I wonder what her reaction would be. As often as she's thrown his feelings for her back in his face, she'd view his attempt to kill her as a sign that his sentimental weakness regarding her was over. On the other hand, would it be so shocking that Demona would express sorrow that Goliath's feeling for her had so diminshed that he was capable of killing her?

Anonymous writes...

Addressed to "matt":
About Goliath "abandoning" the eggs: There IS no justification for him leaving the responsibility of taking care of the eggs to Princess Katherine and the Magus. BUT I do "understand" why. Perhaps it was because he was so depressed and traumatized he couldn't think things all the way through. Perhaps because he didn't feel himself "suitable" or "worthy" of taking care of the eggs and that even the humans would do a better job than he would; he must have blamed himself and not just the captain of the guard and Hakon for what happened at Wyvern. He must have felt he deserved the fate of the surviving members of the clan. And it seems that you have forgotten how sincerely remourseful the Princess and Magus were toward Goliath and how they offered to do anything they could for him. It wasn't as if they grudgingly offered to help him; so they were not very likely to go back on their promise. Also he is mortal and imperfect, and as an imperfect being he made a bad decision. Everyone makes a bad decision, and no one is codoning it, I just want to make sure you understand that.

Anonymous writes...

Hi! I'm Mel from Malaysia and I just wan't to tell you that how much that I'm REALLY hooked and into your original and unique cartoon and it's colourful characters I adore. Well, actually, I do have a vast of shooting questions that might just nip your time away....But you know how Daddies monitor their 17 year old daughters, so I'll just ask a few.
1.I'm so head over heels giddy about the 'steam' between the romantic Duo(G&E), but it also kinda surprises me that the other clan member didn't mind the sparks, I mean, being two different species(I don't mind,REALLY!=]); How come? What did they see within that?
2.Should ever IF THEY have a kid, how'd Demona react to the hybrid

matt writes...

hey, Jim R., thanks again for the kind words but stop putting quotations around my name. Matt is my real name and i'm fortunate enough that one of my favirote characters in the series shares my name! HEY, no one has emailed me!! whoops! i forgot i wasn't going to talk about non-garg stuff!!

matt writes...

i figured since i was singled out to everyone by "Jim R." earlier i'd write something about me... also cuz i like to talk about myself.:)
i don't know Greg personally but i wish i did. i ask Greg so many questions because i'm a big fan and i want to know everything about "Gargoyles" that Greg is willing (or able) to share with us. i've watched garg. since it first came on and i've come up with a lot of questions and when i came across this website i started asking them. i just really love this show! if i had one wish i'd wish for world peace, but if i had two wishes i'd wish that "Gargoyles" had its own television station and played nonstop!! to show how much a fan i am, those last two sentences instantly reminded me of Puck's "does this look like Alladin's lamp" line!!!!
anyway, so as not to clutter up this page with anymore non-garg stuff if you want to email me you can at ewoks11@hotmail.com. i'd love hearing from other fans esspecially since none of my friends were ever really into gargoyles.
and as for all my really great questions: "I can't help it if you can't keep up with Greg and me!". joke. see "Turf".
oh, and thanks for comparing me to Mr. Spock!

demona writes...

gerg in the chat room who is hudson?

WereFox writes...

Greg

My aplogies for all of the typos in my previous post. Thats what I get for posting this at 2:45 in the morning.

Joxter writes...

How much fuu could a fuu dog fuu if a fuu dog could fuu fuu?

Yes, that was a variation on the How much wood could a woodchuck chuck bit... And yes, it made no sense at all. But, Timedancer Brooklyn has a fuu dog... And if you say it all really fast then add a "HEY!" to the end it's pretty fun actually. Just a fun little thing, since I can't think of any questions for you to give a smart-ass answer to at the moment...

Jim R. writes...

Suggestion: give "matt" his own category whenever in the "Greg Archives 3.0". I mean that as a compliment. I know, I know, what can I say...I'm done for tonight.

Jim R. writes...

Greg, who is "matt"? Do you know him personally? "matt", if you're reading this, why do ask Greg so many questions? I hate to be the backseat driver here, but must you require a logical explanation for everything? Mr. Spock would think so, but geez man...

Oh, yes, and Gorebash, I know you will read this...I might be the only person just to ask how do you handle all these questions? You must be damn good at your job! Keep up the good work. I hope this gets posted. (Elvis has left the building...)

Aaron writes...

Hmmmm, a couple of random replies that probably won't make any sense due to the lag. But what the hey.

On the G99 radio play:

<<I had some specific kind of space iron that they were vulnerable to. (I had a name for it. I can't remember it now.)>> If nobody's reminded you by now, it was Dark Iron.

From the comedy development documents:

<<Pat Riley would have had a hard time with this group.>> Hee hee, being nearly as big an NBA fan as I am a gargs fan, you have no idea how funny I find that. Now I'm trying to picture Demona in a dark suit with her hair slicked back, stalking the sidelines like a caged lion.

Oh, and Xavier promised to make Demona the head of security for Glint Enterprises? I know it's a comedy, and so perhaps not such a big deal, but I still get a grin over the idea of his security corps being introduced to their new boss.

"I guess when they said Glint Enterprises was an equal opportunity employer, they weren't kidding."

I do find it kind of ironic though, since being head of security, while primarily about power and control, does sort of fall under the "gargoyles protect" heading.

DCB writes...

More of a general comment than a question, Greg. You don't have to say anything :)

I watch Demona's twice-daily transformation, and it suddenly dawns on me how excruciatingly painful that must be. Which is strange and probably silly, considering her tortured howling and screeching through it all, but I still have to wonder. As much as I hate to admit it, I myself never truly respect physical pain until I actually feel it, and afterwards I'll ''forget'' what it was like until I feel it again. Or I'll recall a time I was in ''unspeakable'' pain, and the feeling itself will be remembered vaguely at best. Pain demands respect, but it isn't as deserving or demanding as . . . oh, say, love and emotion . . . or even mental anguish, which can be far worse than its cousin physical pain.

But the point is, since Demona's situation . . . her lot of pain, both physical and mental, is unique in all the world (save for MacBeth, perhaps), I have to wonder what it's like to go through all that, to live the life of the tortured soul who won't (openly or willingly) admit she's a tortured soul to anyone but no one, even though I'd be insane to jump at the chance to experience that tapestry of pain. A small part of me, the part that wonders, wants to feel it just for the sake of knowing, and the rest of me keeps that one part small.

And when that part grows some, I imagine what it'd be like to have my feet grow several sizes and explode from my shoes like that and come to my senses :)

I guess what I'm actually saying is that "Gargoyles" really makes me think about a lot of things, perhaps even things you never intended your audience to think about or realize.

Happy Holidays, Greg. And thanks.

WereFox writes...

Hi Greg. Just a few thought about the Post Hunter's Moon Demona. My sense from reading the archives is that even though her ultimate plan, representing 500 years of work, has been foiled, her resolve to destroy humanity has not weakened. I can buy this argument, but I'll admit my bias now. Another plan, even one with your usually creative flare, to destroy humanity would still seem anticlimactic to me. Plus any actions by Demona to just pick up where she left off would seem unnatural.

Hi, I've just built a nuclear in my basement and the other day I came within an inch of pushing the button. Does my life continue on as it did before? I'd hope not. There would be consequences, grave ones.

To me, Hunters Moon should be a similar watershed in Demona's plot development. I'm sure she has plenty of other ideas, but would she be allowed to act on them? Even if the Robin Canmore and her brothers keep quiet, Xanatos knows what she almost pulled off. Here is a man with the resources, the motivation, and determination to move mountains to protect his son. I'd be disappointed if he didn't react. If he knows then presumably Fox knows. I can imagine the conversation now. "Mom, you'll won't believe what that nut job Demona almost did." I'm sure Titania would have plenty to say to Demona on this matter. And then there is always the possibility of the Illuminati learning about it. I'm not advocating retribution here, but the bottom line is consequences. You play with a big fire, you get badly burned. Would Demona be allowed to continue scheming while carrying on as president of Nightstone Unlimited? I'd think her first instinct should be to go into hinding for a long while, or something... It just wouldn't feel honest if she just went back to going about her daily life as if nothing had happened.

I once saw a 60 Minutes interview with the surviving families of Herman Goering and Martin Boreman. What I chiefly took away from that show was the sence of overwhelming shame that these people lived with on a daily basis, due to the actions of their genocidal relatives. How does Angela absorb the impact of knowing just how close her mother came on Hunters Moon and not be completely devastated? What kind of a relationship would she want with her mother now that she know just how far she is willing to go?

I can go on but I think you see my point. In the Goliath Chronicles episode, Generations, no mention was made of Hunters Moon. I see that it is also played down somewhat in The Gargoyles Saga. I hope that in any of your future plans for Gargoyles, the consequences for Demonas actions are appropriately profound. Thanks for putting up with the rant.

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a comment on your answer to Jason Barnett's question about Rogue. I'd read your ramble on the "X-Files" movie where you explained why you weren't too keen on Rogue as portrayed in the comics, particularly because of what you viewed as a clumsy introduction (her story being mostly crammed-in backstory rather than happening on-stage).

WB's currently doing an X-Men cartoon in which Rogue's a major character, in which they handle her introduction differently. They introduce her in the "now" of the series at the point where her "draining" ability first manifests itself, whereupon Mystique finds out and recruits her for her followers; in the "now" of the series thereafter, Rogue is thus portrayed as a "villainess" of sorts in that she's one of a group of mutants whom Mystique's recruiting in opposition to Xavier and the X-Men - but also portrayed as not feeling quite at home with them (she even reluctantly helps out the X-Men in one episode, though she doesn't feel quite ready to join them even then and heads back to Mystique immediately afterwards).

Actually, I've found it a rather good series (I've been able to quite enjoy it and follow it, even though I've next to no knowledge of the X-Men; they went for a "start continuity over from scratch" approach of the sort that you praised in both the movie and "Batman:TAS"); incidentally, Frank Paur is one of the directors.

Todd Jensen writes...

This is a sort of early ramble for "City of Stone" in general; I know that you haven't started any rambles on it yet, but this was a thought that I'd had for some time on the four-parter in general that I thought I'd share with you now, since it is next in line on the Episode Ramblings list.

One thing that has surprised me for some time is that "City of Stone" is one of my favorite "Gargoyles" stories. Surprised me because, as you once said (although I honestly didn't realize that this was the case until after you pointed it out) that the episode focused more on the villains (Demona and Macbeth) than on Goliath and his clan. And when I thought over that, it surprised me. Because I've found that I generally don't like episodes in a series which focus on the antagonists and leave the protagonists off to one side. But I very much enjoyed "City of Stone".

Once I realized that, I began wondering over why "City of Stone" was an exception to the rule. And I did provide myself with two possible answers for why that was the case:

1. The focus of the Demona/Macbeth backstory was on something that genuinely interested me very much, long before "Gargoyles" came out. For one thing, it was set in the medieval period, which is my favorite part of history (and indeed, the "medieval Scotland" flashbacks were always one of my favorite parts of "Gargoyles"). But, even more significantly, the backstory in the flashbacks was all about Macbeth. "Macbeth" is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays, and I was genuinely delighted and thrilled to see Macbeth turn out to be *the* Macbeth in it, and to see his story unfold in the course of the flashbacks. And all the more so when I saw that you were basing it on the historical Macbeth (whom I was already fairly familiar with), even if with some elements from the play (such as the Weird Sisters). So the story there was very much my cup of tea.

And second, Demona was, to me at least, never just another villain in "Gargoyles". She was a very crucial figure in the series. After all, she's a survivor of the original gargoyle clan, and thus as legitimately one of the title characters as Goliath, Brooklyn, Hudson, etc. Not only that, but she's also Goliath's former mate, and thus very much part of his story. So the strong flashback element around her worked for me.

At least, that's the explanation that I've worked out for why my response was and is different to "City of Stone" than to other episodes in other series of that nature (i.e., episodes where the protagonists are given a relatively smaller role). I just thought that I'd share it with you.

AbVibiA writes...

Since you always ask for feedback, Greg, Here I am!!!!!
Thanks to you and many others for:

1. Your old notes from the earliest days and silly thoughts. Some of them make me laugh, and some of them make me wish you had used them. (Ala the Elisa- Goliath scene when she mimics Goliath's poses. CUTE!)
2. Gotta love those smart-ass responses!
3. The enduring mystery that you keep about the rest of your plot. I wish you, or some other heavenly creature, could find a way to get that show back on the air!
4. The priceless scenes that endure in the minds of children and obscessive adults alike that I know you had a hand in creating.

Okay, It's short, but what can I say? I just wish the Gatherings weren't so far away, especially for those of us who live in the NorthEast US! Maybe I'll actually get to meet you someday!
-AbVibiA, 13

Mel writes...

Hello, I'm doing an assignment at school for art on Gargoyles, & I thought I'd take a look here to see if I could find some info on them.

I'm LOVE watching the show on Thursdays. I favour Bronsen the best, he's so cute.

Please send a reply to this message to: missee83@yahoo.com.au
because I don't think I'll be able to find this site again.
Thankyou.

matt writes...

i was just looking through the archives and i noticed that everyone always uses the term "the humans" just as we would say "the gargoyles" or "the new olypians". that really struck me as odd because i assume everyone submiting questions is human, as well as you, Greg. we probably say "the humans" for clarification in a universe of diverse peoples, but i wonder if we sometimes say it to distance ourselves from "the humans" in the series who besides Elisa and other friends of the clans (who we are not) usually are the ones to cause trouble for the gargs (which we would not do). well, just another pointless ramble from matt, although i hope its food for thought...