Greg Bishansky writes...

City Of Stone Part Two

Time to pick up where I left off. I'm watching my tape of the episode and pausing to write my responses.

Xanatos has a really good scene as he saves his and Fox's life. Wonder how he explained the helicopter in the middle of the street. His reaction to seeing all those people turned to stone was priceless. I don't think we've ever seen him gasp before. On the plus side, the city is safer for a billionare like him to take a stroll through without getting mugged… though I'd almost feel sorry for any mugger that tried to take him on ;)

"The nose is all wrong." Wonder where exactly Brooklyn was looking whenever he and Elisa were in the vicinity of each other ;). Love that line though.

Goliath has good instincts. And it's nice to see Hudson out of the Clock Tower. I noticed that Broadway has no speaking lines throughout the entire four-parter. Was Bill Fagerbakke unavailable?

It's nice to see Jeffrey Robbins again. I always liked him, and wished we'd gotten to see more of him. I wonder what Hudson told him later about the events. Goliath shows some fast thinking by having Lexington turn off the sound on Robbins' TV set, which is nice to see. He's not as slow as some people think.

Impatience is the curse of youth eh? I suppose that is true. Okay, I confess, I'm somewhat impatient myself.

I liked the explanation on needing to see and hear magic in order to be affected. But that makes me wonder, is it like that with all magic? If say the Archmage were to throw a bolt of lightning at Robbins, would he be immune?

Brooklyn was being quite rash, but it was understandable, this was one of Demona's more horrific schemes. Though Goliath was smart to keep Brooklyn by his side. Had Brooklyn went after Demona by himself here, I think he would have been killed.

I have to admit, I really enjoyed the scene with Demona smashing those statues. I guess I'm a little sadistic, but hey, I have a sick sense of humor. One of my favorite lines was; "Another human bites the dust, or rather turns to dust." When she blasted the statue's arms, well let's just say I wouldn't want to see the result come sun rise. Also, I enjoyed her smug attitude when she was leaning on the statue of Margot Yale's brunette look-a-like.

Now we fade into the flashback…

The battle between Demona and the Hunter is pretty good. Demona looks younger here than in the flashbacks in part 1. Though I can tell from the way she's fighting that she's older. She's still very good, but I think if this was 994, she'd have taken him easily. Or am I underestimating the Hunter?

Bodhe does come off as a coward here, but I can understand where he's coming from. I wonder why Duncan ordered the marriage… probably to piss off Macbeth. I wonder why he hates him, Macbeth never displayed any disloyalty.

The scene between Macbeth and Gruoch at Lunfanan Hill is of course priceless. I can tell just how much they both love each other. Gruoch is willing to risk Duncan's wrath to be with the man she loves, and Macbeth willing to break his own heart to protect her. There are no easy answers to this dilemma, but that's one reason why I love this show. There are no easy answers.

The wedding between Gillecomgain and Gruoch is beautifully directed. Duncan being the first to cheer before everyone else does, and the fact that Duncan is the only one that is smiling is amusing. Macbeth isn't the only one who didn't want to see them together. The music is extremely well edited as Macbeth leaves the Great Hall and Duncan gives his evil smirk. It's right here where I'd really like to punch him in the face, and I think it's safe to say that I'm not alone here ;)

I do like the scene between Duncan and Gillecomgain here. Though the guy is scum, I cannot help but almost mentally cheer Gillecomgain for his last remark to Duncan. "Think well before you risk my defiance Prince Duncan." Sort of like supporting the lesser of two evils, not that I support Gillecomgain though. Okay, next subject…

Duncan's scene with Macbeth is a good one. You're right, he is such a manipulative bastard. "Gargoyles" certainly has no shortage of them. This guy will do whatever he has to do to get what he wants. Once again, I'd like someone to knock his teeth out. Preferably Macbeth.

I like the scene between the Sisters and Demona, nicely parallels the first one, and ties back in with her alliance with the Captain quite nicely.

The rose scene is also one of my favorite moments, it's simple, but it has a lot of weight to it at the same time.

The fight between Macbeth and Gillecomgain is well done, though Gille himself should have learned not to get overconfident. Though using Gruoch as a human shield is probably one of the most despicable acts I've ever seen one of the series' villains commit. But it works, Gille has Macbeth pegged.

I really like the fight between Demona and the Hunter, very well done, and Demona proves how resourceful she is, especially when she uses the torch as a weapon. And then comes one of my favorie scenes…

Gillecomgain: Tis your handy work. Done when I was but a boy. Remember?

Demona: No.

I love that scene. Takes the high and mighty ego-maniac Gillecomgain, and reduces him to an insignificant spec. And also takes the most important event of his life and reduces it to nothing. Which is what Gillecomgain always was. He was a peasant and a pawn of Duncan, nothing more, nothing less. The only significance that came from him was the mask of the Hunter. The mask is significant, however he is not.

I also liked seeing Macbeth save Demona, and seeing her actually thank him and be sincere about it. The two of them work well together, lots of chemistry, whether as friends or enemies.

The wedding between Macbeth and Gruoch, something everyone except Duncan was happy to see, and a real celebration, nice contrast to the earlier wedding. Nice to hear here referred to as Lady Macbeth, kind of wish she was referred by that title more often.

The scene with Duncan in the tower is good. I wonder, did he pull the mask of the Hunter off of Gillecomgain's corpse, or did Gille have another one in his sock drawer? But this scene was good foreshadowing of things to come.

Fade back to the present.

The scene with Goliath and Brooklyn finding the shattered pieces of the people was wonderfully eerie, made more so by the appearance of the Weird Sisters. I was able to tell that Goliath was talking about killing Demona here. But I wonder if he would ever have gone through with it, had the Sisters not given him that lecture.

The fight scene between Demona and Xanatos was good, though I bet Xanatos wishes he has his armor on here. Would've given him an edge. Also liked seeing X toss his weapon aside to save Owen. Of course he was practically throwing his own life away also, as I'm sure Demona was about to finish him off before Macbeth burst in. Looks like Xanatos owes Macbeth his life.

I did raise an eyebrow when Mac shot Demona and felt her pain. Was unsure of what to make of it, but quickly forgot about it and enjoyed the fight scene between Mac & D. Very nice, especially watching Mac ride on top of her.

I'll confess, I didn't get that Xanatos thought he'd be able to break Demona's spell by shutting off the broadcast. I got that on my third viewing of it. Of course now, I've seen "City" a hundred times and it seems clear to me.

Mac & D were both extremely well animated as he continued to ride her, and she tried to lose him. I love Demona's war-cry. Wish we heard it more often ;)

I love the scene between Xanatos and Goliath. X is so smug and in control, while Goliath is furious and considers killing him. "Do you want vengeance or a solution?" I love that line. Xanatos seems to come off as the hero of this 4-parter. Seeing him and Goliath shake hands was weird, but made sense. I'm sure it did from Xanatos's POV. Though for Goliath, it must have been like making a deal with the devil himself.

Greg Bishansky writes...

Here's my own "City Of Stone" ramble. I decided to wait till you were done rambling about all 4 parts and do mine together. I'm also watching the 4-parter as I type this. This is, IMO, the best multi-parter, and story told in all sixty-six episodes of "Gargoyles". It is an extremely powerful and dramatic story.

Here we go…

"City of Stone Part One"

First that title, it is a very powerful and dramatic title, just like the story it is attached to. While it doesn't really cover the flashbacks, I don't think it really needs to. It still sets the mood quite well. Also, I agree that it does sound like a movie title.

The opening scene works quite well. Matt does make a good negotiator, I wonder if does that often in hostage situations, or they bring in someone else. Nice use you make of Brendan and Margot, though I'm surprised there aren't more hostages in a building like that. It is New York after all. I've always been a little curious about the terrorists' cause, but I understood that this was not the place to tell us. Here's hoping you're able to tell us here soon, or show it to us in the show's revival, or in one of the Spin-offs.

Of course the Gargoyles bust in, and you have a great battle scene… though I think it would have benefited with better animation of course. I was quite disgusted with Brendan and Margot in this scene (among their other scenes on other episodes), being more afraid of the Gargoyles, than the woman who had them tied up with guns to their heads. But I love Brooklyn's line to them. Very appropriate indeed.

Ah the Sisters. They did appear to be rather odd here, but they were supposed to. I wasn't sure what to make of them, but I decided to let time tell. I was able to easily figure out that they were talking about Demona…

Fade to the next scene, and we see her. I like the way she was drawn and animated here. There's a lot of beauty and grace here. I love Demona as you know, so be prepared for a lot of compliments to her throughout my own ramble.

It's nice to see what the Captain and Demona discussed after Goliath left them, and didn't feel stuck in at all. I like the Captain and always thought that he was a good man, though he has made mistakes… haven't we all. I did notice what you talked about way back when I first watched it that the animators messed up on Demona a few times. It's particularly obvious when she grabs the Captain. But she looks normal again, and we get that gorgeous shot of her profile with the moon glowing behind her.

And then there's the scene with Othello and Desdemona. Another nice scene, and it makes me wonder how close Demona was to them as opposed to her other rookery siblings and clan members, because it seems like she was deliberately seeking them out. Also, I would have expected Iago to be perching near them, since his parts also get mixed up with theirs leading to Coldstone. This is also a powerful scene for Demona, since she's no in control of the situation anymore. Damned if she did, and damned if she didn't. I often wonder how I would have handled it.

The scene where Demona turns to stone on the beach with the tear running down her face was beautiful.

The next scene is also quite powerful. Demona's returning to the castle where we already know what's happened, but the massacre is still as horrific as it was in "Awakening", perhaps even more so now. I think even Demona realized what had happened but was in denial. She wouldn't have hid if otherwise.

Of course she can't face Goliath, but I wonder how different things would have been had she the courage to face him there. Goliath's "angel of the night" scene is not as dramatic because there should have been more flames animated in the castle like in "Awakening part 1 and 2", so when the stock footage is inserted, it looks out of place.

I wonder what Demona was doing while Goliath and the others were battling the Vikings.

Ah yes, the infamous "What have I… what have they done to you!?" Perhaps the single defining quote of who Demona has become. It is perfect; it was also perfect for Jon Canmore, but more on that when we get to "Hunter's Moon".

I also wonder why she didn't take the eggs from the Princess, the Magus and Tom. I'm sure it would have been easy enough to accomplish. My guess is that it was out of shame. For when they hatched, each time she looked at those hatchlings, she'd see the clan she left to die.

Her farewell to Goliath is very emotional, and the tear on the stone works well again.

The scene where we meet Gillecomgain is a great one, and it works well with Demona. We saw her just two seconds ago mourning, and now we see her in a mad rage. One small, action creating a thousand year legacy. Sad but true.

And we fade back to the present with another gorgeous shot of Demona gliding, and the look on her face is not the look of someone who is going to turn the city's population to stone, and massacre innocent people, but rather a look of sadness. In that one brief scene, she looks sadder than any other time we saw her. Including the aftermath of the massacre. Her silence speaks much louder than her sobs and her tears.

The spell casting scene was great. Sure you cheated a little in having Demona trap Owen, but I don't care. It would have messed up the tone of the scene and it's pacing. I hope I'm correct in assuming that the wire Demona used to bind Owen was iron.

The Sisters themselves get a good scene; I of course was wondering what it was they were waiting for. I also wonder what people made of Demona. Eccentric woman in a Halloween costume perhaps? Wonder how PackMedia explained that later.

The second flashback. The scene where he Gargoyles break into the mill is especially dark, and when Demona raises her mace and kills them, well… what can I say. I do think the animators made Demona look too old here. She looks younger in the flashbacks in part 2. But I imagine that the years have been miserable and stressful to say the least.

Is it just me, or to the other Gargoyles seem terrified of Demona. I sometimes wish we got to know some of them better. Did Demona call any of them friends? And the Sisters show up and are quite mysterious. I like the way Luna is animated, ever the mystic. "Buffy the Vampire Slayer's" Drusilla sometime reminds me of Luna in that scene when she has a vision and acts all mystical. Again I think Demona's age was overdone, especially with that close-up right before the commercial.

I like the scene with Findlaech, Bodhe, Gruoch and young Macbeth. Truly love at first sight, it's rare but it happens. You described Bodhe's actions in this scene far better than I ever could.

The Hunter was introduced magnificently. He definitely came off as dramatic and powerful (I know I keep using those words in my descriptions, but that's what the whole of CoS is), and the fight scene is great… "City" is full of great action scenes. Findlaech's death did not shock me, since it seemed obvious her was going to die. Don't know why, it just felt right. I wasn't even well versed in history and Shakespeare back then. Demona looked quite frightening when she advanced on the Hunter. I enjoyed seeing her save Macbeth and Gruoch, nice to see she hasn't fallen completely into darkness yet. The more I think about it, the more I think you're description of her as a romantic makes sense. She's a character full of passion.

Duncan comes off as a real bastard, and only becomes more of one as "City Of Stone" progresses. I was not at all surprised to see that Gillecomgain was under that mask. Knew it the second I first saw the Hunter. Also liked how the Sisters just seemed to be everywhere.

Fade back to the present with Macbeth donning the mask of the Hunter. Demona will express my sentiments for me about this in Part 4. But I was wondering why he was wearing it.

The scene with David and Fox in the helicopter was nice. Always good to see those two together. Does she always fly him around, or does he have a personal pilot. Also, Fox sounded a little different. Was that Laura doing her voice in this episode? Also, I liked the scenario you presented if Demona had been telling the truth, and would David do anything to give her back that one-minute when she died. It's moot, but it's a dramatic scenario anyway.

I rather liked Owen's urgency. Nice to see him kind of losing it.

As for why Elisa's facing the wrong way… I don't care. It's still a good cliffhanger.

End Part One.

Need to take a break, I'll do the other parts a little later.

Derek! writes...

My personal favorite Smart-ass response:
Question-
How weak is angela?

Answer-
How weak are YOU?

Cassandra writes...

Comments on "High Noon"

Recognizing Demona and MacBeth> I didn't the first time watching, but you knew something was fishy. The handcuffs, the expressions.

I wasn't as worried that our heroes wouldn't survive as to why Demona and MacBeth were working together. And whether Coldstone was going to realize that he couldn't bury his head in the sand.

No, Elisa wouldn't bury her head in the sand. She voices the option because it does exist but she knows she won't give into it.

Michael Dorn is a great voice actor.

Recognizing Demona in Dominique> I didn't until MacBeth called her Demona. And I can understand Elisa not recognizing her. Uniform blindness (the situation where all the person notices is the uniform) and then she knocked out. But I also buy Elisa almost recognizing her. It's the opposite of what happened in the "Mirror". Demona recognized the gargoyle Elisa right off the bat.

This episode was one of the best animated. I love Goliath tapping the camera with his wing. And Elisa's tired eyes.

Demona's sexpot poses> Not exactly in her character, but they work in a "I'm a better-looking human than you" way.

Desdemona being taken over by the Weird Sisters. That confused me because of the hair. If the animators hadn't gotten the colors right, I wouldn't have been confused. But going back and rewatching it and listening to how the dialouge is phrased, it becomes more obvious.

Elisa and Demona's catfight is great! <G> The gals one-on-one, Goliath's life on the line, and that whole "I'm going to beat the crap out of you" attitude.

The jogger> I love the continuity stuff. It sets Gargoyles apart from other cartoons. And I love that guy. I used him in my first Gargoyles fanfic in similiar circumstances--wandering on something in the Park and having no idea what's really going on.

Elisa is a hero and I'm glad you gave her a chance to show it.

Later

matt writes...

HIGH NOON RAMBLE-

the second i saw the title i knew this one was going to be different then most episodes, which are predominantly at night. i was really excited about the teaming up of the two gargoyles who've betrayed the clan, Demona and Iago, i figured that these two together could really cause the clan some trouble, if only Iago could get rid of Othello and Desdemona, well thats a story for another day...
when Macbeth and Demona made their first appearence i recognized Demona and was excited that we'd finally see the clans reaction to her humanity, but i oddly didn't recognize Macbeth until a minute or two later. its probably because Demona sends that glare at Elisa and so i know its her, but why would she be with Macbeth?! of course i didn't expect them together.
i really did wonder how those two knew about the Clocktower, but their stealing Coldstone was as much a distraction to me as it was to the gargs. since Coldstone had been shown i figured they were taking him but i didn't think of the magical artifacts in the closet, which i should have, if they hadn't taken them i'd be here right now typing: "why didn't Demona and Macbeth take those artifacts when the were there?"
i love the battle at Macbeth's. its great to see the whole clan together in battle, not just Goliath and the trio. i think Goliath does a great job of spliting everyone into pairs, his second with Bronx, the oldest with the next strongest and himself with the tech wiz, they all compliment each other in those pairs. i did shake my head at Brooklyn for not paying more attention to what Bronx was sniffing and scratching at, especially after "City of Stone"! and i noticed how Lex never seems to trust Coldstone very much, warning Goliath about bringing him to the Clocktower in "Legion", cautioning Goliath against freeing him here, and being the only one not to volunteer for soul transference in "Possessions" later on. i wonder what Lex has against Coldstone? but, Lex was right, neat trap, got the whole clan with one button...
i picked up on this episode being Elisa and Othello's episode, but i think you kinda forgot about Desdemona, i think her heroism was as important to the outcome as Elisa's! she comes through with the message that its not about being a hero, its about doing whats right, i really like Desdemona, she's such a good person and friend. oh, and when she is holding down Iago so Othello can take control, i think Iago is barely trying cuz he's enjoying it, but that's my theory!
finally, as for the coming battle line by the Wierd Sisters, i didn't know what that meant but i knew that would be a cool episode. actually, after this episode i was still looking at the Wierd Sisters at good guys and they were going to use the artifacts against something evil or something. little did i know...

Oscar - writes...

Greg -

I was just curious of your opinion of Michael Reaves. I love the man's writing style and imagination. I have a friend who thinks his writing is like, godly. She found his website and e-mail him.

He took about 3 mouths to respond to one of her E-mail and honestly it was kinda rude, nothing insightful. I don't know the man and know how he is. I was just wondering what your opinion is.

Thanks

Ciani writes...

DON'T READ IF YOU PLAN TO SEE CASTAWAY!
Stupid Movie. . .
Greg, I totally agree with you on Castaway. I thought it was completely silly. The only good part was Wilson. *laugh* I went with my brother and mother and my bro and I laughed at it the whole way through. Did you notice how Tom Hanks had a severe problem with turning around? When Wilson went missing he stared every which way but behind him - when the huge ship passed him he was staring the other way for the longest time... it was so stupid. And then there was the mysterious water splash - in every few scenes he'd be splashed by water from a really weird angle that wasn't possible according to the normal laws of physics... *laugh* Anyway, Tim - my bro - and I found all of this very amusing. Personally I think a fast moving transfer truck in the last scene would have been the BEST ending ever. Tim thought that would be pretty funny too.... gah... I watch way too much Southpark.

matt writes...

Sapphire-
ithink at some time in the series, maybe in that same scene Goliath says something like, "What humans don't understand, they fear. And what they fear they often seek to destroy."
so you are definitly right in your examples, but remember those all are instances within and between our species. look how humans often treat animals and plants we don't understand, in fear that we may be in danger, so we attempt to destroy it! i think its the same and would be even worse between gargs, New Olympians, whatever and humans.

Sapphire writes...

In the episode Heritage Goliath tells Angela "What humans fear they seek to destroy" Throughout recoded history fear has never been the cause of racism, arrogance has. Hitler's arrogance about a master race has led to the deaths of millions of innocent Jews of whom he saw as inferior. Hitler wasn't scared of Jews but he was jealous of their wealth. The Ku Klux Klan has a long history of terrorizing black people living in the deep south, but they did it out of their misguided arrogance of the belief that white people are superior, they didn't do it out of fear. Besides in reality if humanity ever discovered another race living on earth beside our own, the overwealming majority of humans would be curious not fearful.

Blaise writes...

CITY OF STONE PART 3

Well, now that you mention it, I suppose the title doesn't adequately capture the full impact of the multi-parter (especially the flashbacks), but I never noticed it before. And it is still pretty cool.

Yeah, it always did bug me that Elisa was facing the wrong way and began talking when she reverted back (not only that, but her eyes somehow closed while she was still stone--and Owen somehow managed to stand straight up).

Owen's "awakening". Very rarely do we get that much emotion out of him. ;) And I love the look he has when he sees the phone cord is broken.
And then there's his line as he surveys the "clear signs of a struggle" in the studio--"You've managed to stop the broadcast I see." Or something like that.
It wasn't until after THE GATHERING that I knew what Xanatos was meant when he mentioned "mixing magics." Before that, I had always wondered what he had been referring to with that line. The spell seemed like it was of the Grimorum. But I let it slide until all was revealed, and then I marveled at how early this seed was planted.

The news scene is indeed quite fun. Wasn't that "I never watch television" woman the one from the Diamond Exchange back in HER BROTHER'S KEEPER? Who did her voice in this ep?

It's very hard for me to watch Macbeth, Duncan and their sons on their outing--especially how quickly Duncan seems to forget that Macbeth saved his life. Neil Dickson does some very good voice acting, as you have pointed out. It's especially good with some of the more inventive touches of writing, such as Duncan switching to the use of the "royal plural" when Macbeth pleads on behalf of Demona and the other gargoyles.

Ah, the Weird Sisters as the Witches. Y'know, I actually heard about a production of the play in which the Witches actually DID appear throughout the play in different guises--most noticably as three Nurses in the "Out, out damned spot" scene. It adds an extra power to their presence--especially in this four-parter. And I too like Luna's incredulous "You would lecture US on Fate?" Kath Soucie does some incredible voice-work throughout this series.

It took me a couple viewings before I could pick out Macduff, but it was fun once I did. I think he had a scar on his face...but I can't be sure.
One thing that bothers me about the "gargoyle smashing" sequence is that the animators can't seem to keep track of which gargoyle(s) was(were) smashed. Oh well, Demona's Second still makes a good impression. I just love the look he gives Demona when she says there's no one else fit to lead the last of the gargoyles. Talk about insulting!

Once again, Bodhe suggests the submissive action and once again Macbeth follows it. Says his good-byes (yes, it is quite touching, and the fear in Grouch's voice when she says "Husband?" after Macbeth's "Know that I will always love you" is quite good).
Macbeth's interchange with Demona and the Weird Sisters' spell...what can I say. It's well animated, well acted, and a wonderful sequence. I did indeed understand that the Wierd Sisters appeared differently to D and M, and I figured out most of the aspects of the spell that were revealed in Part Four (and may I just say, that the spell has rules the crueler side of me tends to revel in).

I always wondered what Demona was thinking when she saw Macbeth and Gruoch together--her face shifted from one emotion to the next (a far more guarded look) so quickly. Maybe that was her intent.

Love the battle, though I do wish we saw Macbeth putting up a better fight against Duncan. He probably would have--if Macduff hadn't tried to blind-side him. "Treacherous human" is right!
The globe was a cheat, yes. But its effect on Duncan remains one of my two favorite death scenes in GARGOYLES. How can you beat fire shooting out of a man's head and mouth?
Ed Gilbert sure read a great "THE NIGHT IS WON!" line. I don't know why, but it's appealing in a funny sort of way (maybe the crack in the voice).

Canmore proves that he inherited a bit of his father's mean streak--and deviousness. The mask of the Hunter passes on.
Meanwhile, Macbeth is crowned, and Demona named (and cheered by the humans). This is another of those "heart-breaking" scenes because I know that eventually things just have to fall apart. Still, it is nice to see everyone happy for this brief moment. And if you look in the crowd scene, you'll see a brunette-woman who shares Princess Katharine's fashion sense. ;)

I recognized the Sisters as Police officers (and liked it).
I picked up on the "semi-running gag" of "That's one way to end an argument" when Elisa and Owen turn to stone mid-struggle.

One of my favorite exchanges:
GOLIATH: What is Elisa doing here?
BROOKLYN: She doesn't look happy.
XANATOS: Owen sometimes has that effect on people.
It's just so fun.

I figured there was something behind the tapestry when so much emphasis was placed on Bronx clawing it. And I knew Bronx was going to save Elisa as soon as the cliff-hanger happened. I still didn't like having to wait for the next episode, though.

Multi-parter's coming to an eventful end, sure enough.

Cassandra writes...

My vote on favorite sarcastic reply from Greg.

Jim R. writes...
How long would a gargoyle last in college? And would he be able to afford it? :)

Greg responds...

That would depend on the gargoyle. And the financial aid package.

recorded on 02-15-01

Sapphire writes...

Wouldn't it be cool if gargoyles was done in amine?

Aaron writes...

City of Stone, 1-4 mini-ramble.

There so much to address here, I should really dig out my tapes before attacking it, but...

A few things still stick out.

I remember the first time I watched it, and thinking something didn't quite add up with what Demona was saying. Before the advent of mass media, exactly how would Demona get enough people together to make a spell like the one she sold Xanatos on worthwhile?

I remember being really impressed with the scene where MacBeth goes skysurfing, or whatever you want to call it, with the line wrapped around Demona's leg. Really good showcase of exactly how determined, not to say completely mental, MacBeth is at this point. Can you imagine how much it would hurt if Demona did succeed in shaking him off? Even if you're immortal that's gotta suck.

And of course, I did love the double punch D&M give Goliath. (But then, I'm a Demona fan, so watching the big purple guy take one usually amuses me)

Slow writes...

Re: High Noon

I have to say that I was very confused about the three Desdemonas. Until someone mentioned it in Ask Greg I just figured it was the writer wanting to do strange and surreal stuff inside Coldstone's head. The animation was so good I never would've noticed the colour mistake. If it wasn't for this venue, I'd never have known.

"This is diverting." "You don't know the half of it."

Sure, I laughed when I first heard the line accompanied by the expression on Coldstone's face. But when I watched the episode again a few years later, I thought that Macbeth's response may have been a hint (subconsciously, maybe) that the entire situation was a diversion (staged to get the talismans). Am I wrong to think that Mac may not have been as interested in the girl-fight as it sounded?

Todd Jensen writes...

A question about Xanatos as portrayed in "Future Tense". This was the last episode in the series where Xanatos was the antagonist (even though it may not count as such, given that it turned out that it wasn't really Xanatos). And what recently struck me about it was that here Xanatos, for once, was acting in a manner more like a conventional cliched cartoon villain than he did anywhere else in the series. He took over Manhattan by force, enslaved the population and plunged them into poverty and misery, had the city patrolled by Mutate soldiers on the ground and Steel Clan robots in the air, murdered his own son without even an ounce of pity or remorse, and was plotting to seize control over the entire planet. All very evocative of the stereotypical super-villain that one would expect to find in a more conventional animated series.

Also, in this episode, Goliath did (momentarily) "destroy" Xanatos (or the Xanatos Program masquerading as him) in the cyberspace battle (just before it turned out that it was really Lexington operating the Xanatos Program behind the scenes), in what could count as their final battle.

So, was "Future Tense" designed, in part, to trick the audience into thinking that "Gargoyles" was going to end with a more conventional showdown between Goliath and Xanatos, a more stereotypical "final battle", before going on to reveal, almost immediately afterwards (given that "The Gathering" was the story that came immediately after "Future Tense"), the real manner in which the Goliath/Xanatos conflict came to an end (through the two making peace after the gargs helped Xanatos against Oberon)? A kind of "tricking the audience raised on more conventional adventure cartoon series" method similar to that used in "Leader of the Pack" (where it initially seems as if Xanatos is out for revenge, but it turns out that it wasn't the real Xanatos and that the real one had very different and much more practical goals)?

Aaron writes...

High Noon

<<Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?>>

(raises hand) Aw c'mon Greg, not even human form and frumpy clothing can hide the radiant beauty that is Demona. ;) But seriously, who else has hair like that?

Random observation: When human-form Demona leaves her hair alone, instead of putting it up in that dreadful restrained thing she wears as Domonique Destine, she looks like a red-haired Puma sister. (Dominion Tank Police, in case you didn't get the ref)

Anonymous writes...

Just a quick comment. Actually, Demona's"sexpot posing at the clock tower when she confronts Elisa did seem in character to me. I always imagined her smugly suggesting, See, even as a human I'm better looking than you. Her subconscious jealousy of Elisa and Goliath's "connection"
and her "I'm better than you are attitude, contirbute to her flagrantly exhibiting herself." Or in the words of the immortal and unknown, "When you've got it flaunt it." Got to love the Japanese animators on this one.

Todd Jensen writes...

My "High Noon" ramble.

It's hard to be certain what my original thoughts were when seeing this one for the first time (given that that was back in 1995), but I feel pretty certain that I didn't recognize Demona in her human form until the dialogue actually named her. (And given that, as you'd pointed out, up till then, I'd only seen her as a human briefly at the end of "The Mirror", it was easy enough not to recognize her).

I don't recall now what I'd thought of the Demona/Macbeth team-up or where the Weird Sisters were all this time when I first saw the episode, though. Maybe I was just accepting the story as it went along without asking that many questions.

I very much liked Hudson's question about the "hit the sack" idiom, and the bit where Hudson and Broadway were reading the newspaper as the link back to "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Both struck me as very enjoyable touches.

I sometimes wonder if Officer Morgan will ever realize just how helpful he was to Elisa in helping her gain the strength to face Demona at Belvedere Castle. This may very well count as his biggest moment in the series to date.

The revelation at the end that the Sisters were behind it all, and - more importantly - that the real targets were the Grimorum, the Eye of Odin, and the Phoenix Gate definitely surprised me. One thing that I do remember from my first time seeing the episode was this: for some odd reason, I was under the impression that "the coming battle" that the Sisters mentioned was something slated for the end of the season (Episode 65 or close to it), a grand finale conflict of some sort. Well, it was a big battle, but it took place in "Gargoyles" a lot sooner than I was expecting.

(One little thing that I must admit: a good thing for Demona that she was using the Grimorum to shield herself from prying eyes during the day. I don't think that she would have been too appreciative of the way that male humans might have been looking at her in that outfit as a human if they could have seen her :)

Cassandra writes...

Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?

Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.

Greg responds...

Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.

And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.

recorded on 02-15-01

Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.

I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.

I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.

Todd Jensen writes...

A little thought I've had for some time, inspired by the occasional protests from this "Gargoyles" fan or that who wanted to see Angela pair up with Brooklyn rather than with Broadway. I've never had any problem with Angela choosing Broadway, and actually think that it works very nicely (not to mention that I don't think that Brooklyn would really have been all that happy with Angela - for one thing, there's the way that he feels about her mother). But there is one thing about this business that has amused me.

Although I've seen a number of protests about Brooklyn not becoming Angela's mate, I haven't seen one case of a "Gargoyles" fan, to date, who wanted Lexington to become Angela's mate. Looks as though Lex doesn't have that much of a fan club :)

Aris Katsaris writes...

Justin> You seem to think that "fat" and "obese" are one and the same. They are *not*. Trust me on this, Broadway isn't obese, not by any definition of the word...

Jim R. writes...

Greg,
Not to be rude, but I read some of your rambles about stuff. What are they SUPPOSED to MEAN?! I can't make heads or tails as to what you're talking about or where you're going with these alternative outcomes...Whatever you're rambling about, trust me, you're beginning to make me think of parallel outcomes for everything I saw in Gargoyles which is MORE like something I'd watch on Star Trek. Now, don't scare me. (And you said you tried to avoid such unstrict storylines which Star Trek producers are famous for.)

Jon writes...

Favorite smart-ass remark:

Faieq writes...
In the Gargoyles Universe, how much truth is there in fortune cookies?

Greg responds...

All cookies are true. Especially Peanut Butter cookies.

(Personally, I've known a few disingenuous peanut butter cookies in my time, so I'm not sure I can back you on this one, Greg)

Good luck regaining your edge!

Jim R. writes...

matt,

I thought the skiff was blown up at first, but i remembered that only happened in the "Future Tense" episode, which I suppose wasn't real to Goliath. But no one could accidently go to Avalon, because one would first have to recite the Latin to reach it. I got you on this one buddy. :)

Durax writes...

City of Stone scenelet>> When Gil crushed the rose, I thought this was to tel the audience that, the scars on his face did more than damage his looks. I thought he had lost his sense of smell too. In my mind this provided even greater cause for him to grow more and more embittered against Demona. I don't think this is what you were intending though, not anymore.

Justin writes...

Greg,
A few weeks ago Anonymous writes
<Are there any female gargoyles who are obese? How about muscular or extremely skinny? Are any females bow-legged?
Are there gargoyles with differnent wing and ear types than the types that were shown on the series?
You know how some gargoyles have a sharp elbow or knee spike that juts out, I was wondering if any gargoyles have them on both knees and elbows because it was always on or the other.>

To which you replied...
<Obese? Not likely, but possible, I guess.

Look, it's all sounding possible.>

Now why is not likely for a gargoyle woman to be obese? Must all of them be fairly skinny like Demona? I don't know man, it seems like a sexist notion of what the female form is supposed to be! Sorry if offends you but with the gargoyles anatomy being similar on the surface, this might boys the neanderthal idea of what female beauty is supposed to be, and girls an impossible standard to live up to. Now don't get me wrong I love the show. Another thing that yerked me. You have mentioned that the original Broadway was going to be a girl. But you changed your minds out of fear of feminist groups being concerned about the evil/fat issue among the two female characters.

Now I would think that feminist groups with all sorts of "agendas" as you put it would love to see a none picture perfect woman in the series. Trust me having the two main female gargoyles in the series model thing didn't exactly endear the show to them I'm sure ;)

Sorry if this sounds like a rant. I just wanted your honest thought on what I've said.

Thank you

Aris Katsaris writes...

More of a ramble (or two) than a question but here goes:
I believe that someone here in Ask Greg compared Xanatos to Prospero- both having magical assistants... Anyway I was thinking around the same lines, trying to compare Xanatos with characters from mythology:

My first thought was Gilgamesh (I'll ramble about him next) but then I thought an even better match: namely Sisyphus. And, god, this guy seems the most Xanatosian character I know (I even imagine him played by Frakes). He's *very* intelligent (him and Ulysses are pretty much the two clever men of Greek mythology); something of a trickster; he's considered to be something of a villain; and finally in certain stories he has even tried to find a way to defeat death. Two times in fact. One of them involved binding Thanatos (or Hades - not sure which) pretty similar to what the Emir did in 'Grief'...

So questions:
1. Any thoughts on the above? :-)
2. Sisyphus was punished pretty severely for what was seen as villainy (namely his trying to cheat death and angering Zeus in general)... Other than the brief (though admittedly great) scare that Oberon gave to Xanatos, do you think that Xanatos will get a comeuppance for his crimes? He's done worse than Sisyphus I think...
3. There's a third question but I'll post it serarately in case Todd thinks it a story idea...

Corrine Blaquen writes...

What nationality is Titania's human form supposed to be?

I find it very cool that you have so much ethinic/racial diversity in the human cast, from Elisa's Native American/African background to Xanatos's half Greek. It's such a fresh change from other cartoon characters with no heritage at all.

I myself am French-American, and I LOVE it that Fox, one of my favorite characters, is half French-American. Thanks, Greg!

matt writes...

Faieq, Goliath said, "I grow tired of this, take whats left of your men and begone!" i think he meant he was tired of that particular battle and i doubt there had been previous encounters with Hakon.

Todd Jensen writes...

My "City of Stone Part Four" ramble.

I hadn't noticed the bit about Bronx responding to Demona's tone of voice, but I think that it is a good point. I know from personal experience that dogs do the same thing in real life. My mother used to sometimes, for a joke, when she was telling off our dog for doing something naughty, add, still in a condemning tone of voice "You're the most beautiful dog in the world", etc., and note the way that he'd hang his head and look guilty at that.

The Chorus music in the battle scenes in 1057 reminded me a lot of the music in the battle scenes in "Excalibur". (Kind of appropriate, actually, given Macbeth's affinity to Arthurian matters in "Gargoyles").

Good analysis on Macbeth's secret council, and I certainly don't think myself that he would have agreed to betray the gargoyles. (And I don't think, for that matter, that it would have worked even if he had; given the fact that the English still attack Castle Moray even after the gargoyles' desertion, and continue to support Canmore against Luach even after the destruction of Demona's clan, I certainly suspect that Bodhe was inaccurate in his assumption that they had only invaded Scotland to destroy the gargoyles. Historically speaking, of course, they had a number of non-gargoyle reasons - such as the fact that their real-life leader, Earl Siward of Northumbria, was one of Canmore's relatives - but that's another story).

One thing that strikes me about the bit where Canmore "slays" Macbeth is that it brings across the fact that he was something of a rotter. Instead of slaying Macbeth in fair fight, he waits for him to get into an argument with Demona and then stabs him in the back. Not much honor there. At least his Hunter descendants were a bit of an improvement over him and his father (except for the point when Jon Canmore becomes Castaway and afterwards).

I also find Macbeth and Gruoch's final parting a moving moment. One thing that I've got to say about Gruoch in "City of Stone" - it's hard to believe that she's the historical original of one of the most infamous villainesses in all of literature. Shakespeare may have maligned her even worse than she maligned Macbeth (as I said before in my "Long Way Till Morning" ramble, Demona fits the Lady Macbeth role far better than Gruoch ever did).

Back to the present: the big confrontation at the end still moves me, including the Weird Sisters' lines (even after we learn that they don't really practice what they preach). I can't help but wonder what the impact on Demona must have been when she discovered that the fact that killing her would mean his own death was no longer much of a deterrent to Macbeth - was, in fact, more of an incentive. And I agree that "Death is never the answer. Life is." is a great Goliath line. And Demona's "The access code is 'alone'" is a very moving moment; at least, it was for me.

Thanks for the ramble.

The Mighty Thor writes...

Lawrence Stone writes...
How do gargoyles view Homosexuality?

Greg responds...

On cable, like the rest of us.

This has got to be the best on in the arcive, mostly because you play it out so litteraly like with the "cauldran of life" It just really get's me how a question/magic spell can sound so good and start an intelegent conversation and then take any meaning or insight and compleatly nuke it.

Zombie White writes...

SMART ASS STUFF...
you wanted to know those we loved... I liked the Bunji-jumping new olipians and the fea that evolved from books... I like the sens in the non-sens..

by the way, some people asked "what came first, the egg or the gargoyle"... come on, we all know it's the egg... if gargoyles are part of the evolution then they came from dinosaurs that layed eggs :P
then again, dinosaurs came from unicellulars that didn't O.o
who's the smart-ass now !?

Jim R. writes...

I agree with Chris Maune's post. Gargoyles on the Cartoon Network would be a great thing! It would give a chance for some healthy "American animation" to replace some of that mindless Japanese anime that is polluting the minds of our younger generations in the Toonami block. Kids these days just don't know good cartoons when they see them...

matt writes...

no offense to anyone who has posted stuff about gargs evolving from dinosaurs, but i think that it is extremelly unlikely that they did. only Greg and God could convince me that they are saurian descendants.
dinosaurs were all wiped out!!!! what does a garg evolve from? bones? and as for the triceratops head frill and the pterydactyl wings and whatever else, why would all these dinosaurs mate with each other anyway? for that matter, pterydactyls arn't even dinosaurs!
gargs are far more likely to be related to the platypus, the bat, or some other mammal, not dinosaurs.
sorry if i seem like i'm ranting, but for some reason the dinosaur connection just really bugs me...

Todd Jensen writes...

Wow! A new episode ramble! Well, here's my thoughts on "City of Stone Part Three".

I get a chuckle out of the "I never watch television" scene - although I've occasionally thought that the lady must have been reading the script to know that watching Demona's broadcast was what turned everyone to stone :) (Then again, maybe it isn't such a hard connection to make).

Yes, I'd noted that Lulach's name got spelled wrong (I was aware of the original Lulach of history before "City of Stone" came out); thanks for explaining about how that happened.

I mentioned in my ramble on Part Two that the Duncan of "City of Stone" felt a lot closer to the Shakespearean Macbeth than the Macbeth of "City of Stone" did, and the Weird Sisters scene brings it home all the more. They do their "toil and trouble" scene, as per the play (which delighted me from the very first time that I saw the episode) - but note here the twist from Shakespeare. In Shakespeare, the Weird Sisters' words inspire Macbeth to move against Duncan. In "City of Stone", they inspire Duncan to move against Macbeth, instead. (And it says a lot about Duncan that he should completely forget that Macbeth just saved his life a few minutes before, simply because of the words of three old crones).

The scene where the Sisters transfer Demona and Macbeth's ages is a very effective one (although I don't know if I'd gotten the full story there until Part Four came along). So also is the battle scene, including Duncan's fiery end. (Again, I wasn't too surprised by the basic manner in which Macbeth overthrew Duncan; I'd already read that he did overthrow Duncan in actual history - and that it was in 1040, so I was expecting that incident the moment that the "1040" caption appeared on the screen. I'd also read that Shakespeare seems to have borrowed the more familiar murder story from Holinshed's account of the murder of a certain King Duff - apparently the same Duff who appeared in your "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers" story as Kenneth II and Prince Malcolm's older brother. Although that Duff's final days reminded me more of Uther Pendragon's, in his going into his final battle in a litter - but I digress).

A couple of thoughts about Demona at the coronation that really stand out to me. First off, when Demona comments that she'd rather that humans feared gargoyles than respected them, I can't help but think that it shows how Demona doesn't always reason things out. For humans do fear gargoyles - and that's what causes the problem. Humans hunt and destroy gargoyles because they're afraid of them. So I don't think that it's clear thinking on Demona's part to desire that her race be feared.

The other part is the astonished, then delighted look upon Demona's face when the humans in the great hall actually cheer her. Another one of those almost sad moments, in that she's given an opportunity to see what it can be like to be loved by humans instead of feared - and seventeen years later, she'll reject it. A moment equal to her brief "What have I done?" moment in 994, before she changed it to "What have they done?"

I very much liked the Weird Sisters' little lurkings in the background throughout (and caught their policewoman role at once).

Oh, and I like the title "City of Stone". True, it indeed does ignore the flashbacks that are so crucial, but it sounds good. I didn't even notice that trait when I watched the multi-parter.

But perhaps the most intriguing part of "City of Stone" remains this: how many animated adventure series would dare air a story that spends so much of its time in medieval Scotland, as opposed to a more high-tech setting (whether modern-day or futuristic), exploring actual events in early Scottish history? "Gargoyles" was definitely unique in that regard.

I'm looking forward to the "Part Four" ramble.

Patricia writes...

My fave S-A Response :) :

Faieq writes...
In the Gargoyles Universe, how much truth is there in fortune cookies?

Greg responds...

All cookies are true. Especially Peanut Butter cookies.

(This is my favorite question this month.)

Siren writes...

Well, first off, Smart Ass answers are my favorite...But I can't pick one, so here are just a few of my favs.

Airwalker writes...
In the 'ONCE UPON A TIME...' segments you've done, we've seen why Malcolm would need to ally himself with a Gargoyle clan. But why would Hudson want
to ally himself with Malcolm?
Greg responds...
Patience, grasshopper...

Scott Iskow writes...
That last question of mine got me thinking...
Are there flying pigs in the Gargoyles Universe?
(Believe it or not, that's actually a serious question. Go fig.)
Greg responds...
I've got the bacon, do you have the catapult?

ndrew writes...
In the episode the gathering (part 2) what did titania whisper to fox at the end of the episode. I have been wondering this for a long time.
Greg responds...
You and what army?
Oh, yeah. That army. <WAVES> "Hi, guys!"

Heidi Doeing writes...
I don't think, despite your multiple attempts to evade the question, that anyone will stop until the real answer is given:
What did Anastacia whisper to Fox?
( ;) just thought I'd try again)
Greg responds...
You misspelled Anastasia.

Duncan Devlin writes...

My favorite smart-ass response was your answer to the question:
"Which came first, the gargoyle or the egg?"
Your answer: "I DID"

I even drew up a little comic around it in the New Yorker Magazine style.

Dexter writes...

Hey man, I'm back. Dude, so let's say I asked Angela out on a date, and she said yes...

1) What kind of flowers should I bring her? Or would she prefer something more original like...a basket of nectorines or something?

2) what's her favorite color? That's always good to know about a woman.

3) Does she like punk rock? Hey it could be very likely! I mean, after all she did come to New York! I'm sure she's determined to get 'cultured' in her new world, so what style of music do you think she likes? Hey, there's an idea, I could write her a song...that's more personal then flowers. Heh heh, that gargoyle is so cool. When we go out, I'll even whip out my flashy Cheetah Bondage pants for her...I only wear them on very special occasions don't ya know.
You probably think i'm a psycho, huh? Yeah I know, it's a hard truth. I seriously painted her on a wall in my room though. It's pretty sweet! But ya know what Greg, now you have my pathetic posts and questions to look forward too every time you come on to reply! Besides, I've been through the archives, and as you know, there are people here who have way more issues then I do! Later Dude!

Jim R. writes...

Greg,

I never "was" picking on matt. When I first found this place, I saw how much he was posting and I thought I'd ask him, since I really had no other way to communicate with him at the time. And after he responded with his email included, I started talking to him more frequently. He mentioned my name, and I did his. BUT, it was all in good fun! I never ment to be negative, but I guess you took it that way... Please don't be mad with me! :)

[Jim R. bows at your feet in forgiveness.]

matt writes...

Greg,
there seemed to be a mix up about the relationship between Jim R. and i. we actually met through this site a couple months ago and are now friends. we talk on the computer but have never met, however we hope to meet at the 2002 Gathering or sometime. Jim R. may have been picking on me, but in a friendly way so it's not a problem. thanks!
-matt

Simon Bucher-Jones writes...

Not actually but after the recent time travel thread referenced a book of mine at one point I just wanted to say
how great I think your show is!

warrioress writes...

My favorite smart-ass response:

Someone wrote...

What do you you think would be the reaction of the Canmore siblings (especially Jon) if they found out that Demona literally killed their father with one hand tied behind her back? (She was holding onto the Praying Gargoyle at the time he attacked her.)

Greg answered:

Gee. I think they'd dance a jig.

Whaddaya think their reactions would be?

Then there was the one person asking how Goliath was able to shave on the Avalon Tour, and Greg said something about Superman volunteering his heat vision.....

VF writes...

My favorite responses (to most things, actually) are the ones that reveal a witty-but-slightly-quirky sense of humor without being malicious. So I'd have to pick these:

1) "... I realize that isn't the kind of answer you were looking for. ... And that amuses me."

2) "It's not that I didn't understand the question. It just struck me, no offense, as too silly to answer in any straight way. ... And the funny thing is, it still strikes me that way."

Emmlei writes...

fav smart-ass response: in reply to aris's follow-up about one my latest whisper question
Oh, well if that's what you want, then the answer is...

Hey, was that you're plan all along? To appeal to my sense of perversion?

yeah, that questions been asked way too much. so you gonna tell us? j/k

Jim R. writes...

Here's one of my favorite smart-ass responses:

Anonymous writes...
do you know where i can find a picture of some neat looking gargoyles? like the ones out of a comic book.

Greg responds...
Nope. Have you tried comic books?

Revel writes...

Okay, after going through the smart ass archive I know I definitly want to meet you in LA
My favorite was the guy swooning over Angela and your drawn out response.
-Sure, more power to you........Poor slob
My thoughts exactly. There's a world outside them for walls!

Todd Jensen writes...

Here's one of my favorites from the "Smart-ass Responses" section, as per your request:

<<What Would Happen to a gargoyle in space?

Greg responds...

They'd explode in the void, just like a human.>>

matt writes...

Greg, i love those smart-ass responses and it would be hard to choose one favirote, but i always thought that this one was pretty good:

-How do gargoyles view homosexuality?
-On cable, like the rest of us.

i also liked:

-After clones, superviruses, and mutates what could Sevarius possibly cook up next?
-Breakfast?

you sound like Xanatos in "The Edge" when he thinks he's lost his. i think you still have the edge in smart-ass responses, you are hilarious!

Ray Kremer writes...

All the rambles on City of Stone recently brought back some memories. While that season was airing I was in High school, and the English Class that semester was British Literature. Beowulf, Canterbury Tales, and of course Shakespere. We did the Scottish play not too long after CoS aired and when I was reading the book the voice of John Rhys-Davies always found its way into my head.

The classroom also had a big poster of the complete family tree of the royalty of the British Isles. You can imagine how much fun it was to look back to 11th century Scotland and find the names of Gillecomgain, Gruoch, and Luoch right there with MacBeth, Duncan, and Malcom Cannmore.

Then when we got to Arthurian Legend I asked the teacher what the significance of Avalon was besides being Arthur's final resting place, half expecting to hear it was the traditional home of the fairy kingdom. (Never could be too sure what was real, what you were making up, and what was some of both.)