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The Phoenix Gate

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Anonymous writes...

Hi, I'm curious...what was life like growing up for Goliath(especially in his warrior-trainee years). I'm wondering whether or not he had a stressful time in his warrior-trainee stage. Well I'm sure he did, I'm just asking you to confirm it(if you can). I'm wondering because I'm curious as to what shaped him(speaking as if he were real) to be the person he is today. Judging from his character attributes(which I absolutely admire; "love" even) I'm sure he had a very hard time when he reached puberty. In my mind I see him as a poor troubled youth who is both admired(for his looks and talents) and absolutely hated(for the same things by his clanmates who were jealous of him). Always torn between the need to succeed to please his elders but not succeed too highly to keep his clanbrothers from hating his guts even more than they already did.

Greg responds...

Actually, I think Goliath was a bit sheltered and naive. Not from danger, of course. He faced plenty of that. But until he got quite a bit older, he was less aware of deceipt.

Given that he took danger as a given, I don't think Goliath would think he had a very tough childhood.

As to his youth and training, that's what GARGOYLES: THE DARK AGES was created to explore (among other things).

Response recorded on February 01, 2001

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Corrine Blaquen writes...

Will Goliath and Demona ever make peace? I realize that they'll never get back together, but would they ever cease being enemies, or maybe even be friends?

Greg responds...

Too soon to say.

Response recorded on January 26, 2001

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Vilija writes...

Hi Greg! Happy Christmas! My question this time's on Christmas presents.

What does Goliath want for Chirtmas this year?
(Does he celebrate Christmas? If not, what does he and other gargs celebrate? Winter Solistce?)

How about Demona? (Santa knows she's been naughty, though.)

What'd Elisa like this year?

Thank you, .... Wait! Today's winter solistce! Have a good one. (and a good holiday.)

P.S. What're you wishing for this year?

Greg responds...

I'd lean more toward Solstice than Christmas. And I don't think Goliath is very interested in material possessions.

Demona wants the same old thing. A human-free earth, and all the power, with no guilt.

Elisa -- I think she'd like a quiet night at home with Goliath.

And me? Well, I wanted the video to Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And I got it. YEAH!

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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Sapphire writes...

What is Goliath's view on homosexuality?

Greg responds...

I don't think he gets why it would even be an issue.

There are many things that might disturb Goliath.

Promiscuity.

Adultery.

Sado-Masochism.

For example.

But neither heterosexuals or homosexuals have the patent on those things.

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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JADE writes...

Hi Greg,
I was wondering about this: In one show (Which I can't remeber the name) Demona, Angela, and Thailog were in it. What I remember the most about it was that in this show Angela said to Demona "I hate you!" And then Demona started to cry and went and fought with Thailog over something---I think it was something to do with Angela. After that I don't think we saw Demona again, but if Angela and Demona would ever sit down and talk about their feelings for each other, would it ever work out? I mean would Demona go back to the clan, or would her and Goliath work something out so Demona can see Angela once in awhile? I know this question isn't to understand able, mainly because I can hardly remember anything from this part of the show only the "I hate you" thing---but please try to answer the best you can. Thank you.

Greg responds...

I assume you're talking about "The Reckoning".

As for answering your question, I don't have any simple reassuring response. This isn't, for example, as clear-cut as a divorced couple arguing over custody of their teen-age daughter. Demona's a would-be mass murderer. She and Angela have much to work through. Stuff that includes mother/daughter relations, gargoyle/human relations, good/evil, nature/nurture, etc. It's an on-going discovery for both characters. And for Goliath as well.

Response recorded on January 17, 2001

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Demona Taina writes...

Dear Greg:

If the gargoyles' equivalent of kissing is stroking each other's hair, then was Goliath "kissing" Elisa when he tucked her hair behind her ear in "Hunter's Moon III"?

It appears to be so, judging by the look on his face and the soft tone of his voice. He seemed to be expressing his love to her, I suppose, by caressing her hair and lightly touching her cheek. Then Elisa, being a human, jumped and kissed him instead, being the humans' way to express love for someone else.

Well, is this true, or am I totally off? :P

Thank you for your time. :)

Greg responds...

You are right on the money.

Response recorded on January 03, 2001

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matt writes...

what is Goliath's reaction to Broadway and Angela's relationship? what is Demona's?

Greg responds...

I think he's pleased.

Demona's probably conflicted. I don't think she likes Broadway, simply because he's alligned against her. But I don't think she's rooting for her daughter to be alone either.

Response recorded on December 22, 2000

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Faieq writes...

I asked this question before and you responded
"I don't have my timeline with me, so I cannot assume the premise of your question is correct. Please resubmit it."
So now I'm resubmitting it:In 975 Goliath and Demona/'Angel' were 37 chronolgically, I think, and this seems to be a little young to be committing themselves to eacch other (compared to the trio, who were the same age in 994 but were single). Does that mean that the Trio mated late and the rest of their rookery siblings already have mates in 994, or did Demona and Goliath become mates long before their other brothers and sisters?

Greg responds...

I think Goliath and Demona mated a tad young. A few of the Trios contemporaries may have mated at the time of the massacre, but most would not have.

Response recorded on December 22, 2000

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Elisa Ann Goliath writes...

Hi! It's me again! Just wanted to ramble a little bit about E&G's relationship. (And a comment or two would be nice:)
Lately I've been thinking a lot about marital relationships. (You know, what makes a good one. My parents recently had their 41st anniversary, I guess that's why I'm thinking about it.) Now, I'm only 16, and I don't presume to know everything about marriage, but I think I can safely say I have a more realistic view of marriage than most of my peers.
In the series, as a HUGE fan of the E&G relationship, of course my main concern is for E&G to get "married", but really if you think about it, they already have a relationship that is.... I don't know, kind of marriage-like. In the Bible, men are commanded by God to love their wives as Christ loved the church (be willing to die for) and women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way). With Elisa and Goliath, Goliath loves Elisa with all the tenderness of his heart, is willing to die for her, and he values her and her opinions, and is therefore always asking for her input and for her help. Also, since he loves her, he is not demanding or arbitrary, making it easy for her to submit. She, of course, loves him as much if not more than he loves her, is willing to die for him, and is usually ready to submit when he makes a final decision on something, whether or not it is what she suggested. As a proud, independent woman this cannot always be easy, but she makes the sacrifice because she loves him and because she knows that he is only doing what he thinks is best.
Well, I've just been wanting to get that down on record.
Thanks! TTFN!

Greg responds...

Elisa Ann, I can't let it go. I should, but I can't. Cuz I've got a daughter, and I wouldn't want her to someday read this exchange and think that even by ommision, I might possibly agree with you. I don't agree with the following statement you made: "women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way)." I don't think it works best that way. I don't see any reason why women in particular should sublimate themselves to men. Why not men to women? Or why submit at all. Why not just be true to yourself, and find someone who compliments that truth? That's how I see Elisa and Goliath. Whether I succeeded or not, that's the kind of relationship I tried to forge between them.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree with it. And I don't see Elisa as even VAGUELY submissive. He respects her. She respects him. Each of them do things at times that the other wishes they would not. Not just Goliath, but Elisa as well. She is strong, proud, independent, loving. All the things you've listed. So is he. EITHER would die for the other. (Not just him for her.) I'm gratified you like their relationship. But I think you have subtly mischaracterized it to fit views you already hold.

Response recorded on December 21, 2000

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Chapter XXI: "Vows"

Written by Shari Goodhartz
Michael Reaves, Story Editor

Benny: "But Daddy, when it's dark they get alive. But when it's light, the get frozen like a statue."

Last night, the kids, my sister, my wife and I all watched "Vows" together. Time to ramble.

Back to the Golden Cup Bakery Building. As I noted in the previously posted memo about this episode, I wanted a little opening battle, but I didn't want to waste time in a tight, packed script explaining how this came about. It does beg the question though. Assume that X contacted Elisa. She told Goliath. He went ALONE? His friends allowed this? Hmmm.

Xanatos knows from the letter to himself what to do, but I sometimes wonder just how detailed the letter was. I like to think it was fairly sketchy. That exactly HOW Xanatos got Goliath to come was his own machinations. Otherwise, though he takes the credit for the letter, the truth is that the plan itself wasn't his idea. He got the idea from the letter. And he wrote the letter based on what he had done, which he had gotten from the letter. None of this is really his to own, though he does claim ownership. So I like to think that at least some of the details were X's. For example, X knows what G will respond to, i.e. Demona.

Hudson, on hearing about the wedding, suddenly makes the connection to the long ago incident when he met the Goliath from the future. So he's strangely ambivalent. Elisa on the other hand, seems flat out jealous to me. After the events of "The Mirror" and "Eye of the Beholder", she's much more aware and focused on her feelings for Goliath. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS. At this time, she thinks it's impossible. But that doesn't change how she feels. And now, she's jealous. Goliath's feelings for Elisa are just as intense, but so are his feelings for the "Angel" of his youth. He HAS to give it one last chance. (And this will be the last chance. The final nail in the coffin of his and Demona's "marriage".) Brooklyn, meanwhile, is just knee-jerk against anything involving Demona.

PETROS XANATOS is introduced. Again, I wonder why he was invited. Was he also included in the letter? Or did Xanatos invite him to prove something to his father. Is X that needy? Or did X invite him to the wedding, because of course he'd invite his father to his wedding, and his already planned "honeymoon" to 975 shouldn't alter his decorum. Perhaps he's mildly surprised his father winds up coming along? Anyway, Petros was a fun character. A tough hard physical man. With morals. A great contrast to the son. I knew even then that we'd give Petros and David an arc to their relationship, (one that eventually would culminate in Gathering2).

"Oh, reason not the need." A little King Lear is always nice. And I love Petros' attitude on the line, "And the armor?" I mean what would you say to your son if you saw him dressed like that? I'd like to know how many people had sort of forgotten that X was even wearing armor (we're so used to it) until Petros made an issue of it?

I love all the irony in the dialogue between Petros and David. David knows what he's planning. He must be smiling when Petros says "I'd like to get my hands on the man who gave you that coin." And when David says, "Someday, I'll prove to you that I'm a self-made man," he must really be patting himself on the back.

I love the voice work of Keith and Marina when doing their teen-age counterparts. So subtle, yet it's always clear which Goliath and Demona is talking at any given moment.

CONTINUITY:
Gotta love that storage room in the clock tower. The Eye of Odin, the Grimorum, half the Phoenix Gate, and, oh, yes, a comatose Coldstone. By the way, despite what the memo said, I think generally, Goliath carried that Gate in the pouch attached to his belt. Not behind some brick. We hadn't actually come up with that pouch yet, not until the World Tour. But using RetCon, I think that's where he kept it until they moved to the clock tower and Demona tried to kill him, Hudson and Elisa in "Long Way to Morning".

One interesting thing: this is the first episode where we actually CONFIRM that the ILLUMINATI does exist. Matt's mentioned it. Even chased it in SILVER FALCON, but we've never been shown any proof of it's existence until now. Was anyone surprised by that?

Judge Roebling was interesting in theory, though not so much in the episode. I'd like to do more with him some day. I also thought that it was interesting that despite seeing the tape of the Gargoyles in advance. And not reacting outwardly when he saw Goliath, he still gasps when Demona enters. What is it about her? When she entered, Benny turned to me and said: "She's queen of the Gargoyles." Oh. So that's it.

(And everytime Xanatos and Fox are on screen together, Benny likes to point out that he and Erin dressed up as them at the last Gathering. "That's me. That's you, Erin.")

To some extent, X must have filled D in on his plan. I love her "acting" when she enters and gives her bitter "excuse" for being there to Goliath. She's playing hard to get!

I love Petros: "Unnacceptable." He's still trying to teach David the error of his ways.

The Gate itself is very idiosyncratic. It's size, the size of its portal, and the duration the portal stays open seems to vary not just from episode to episode but from scene to scene. Sometimes it annoys me, like when Princess Elena removes the Gate from her sleeve, and suddenly it's bigger than her hand. But now I'm just amused by it. Again, if you think of it as a steam valve for the timestream, it explains a lot.

I love the little sound that Paca put in when the two pieces of the Gate first come together. What a tip-off that was, yet it's subtle. Did anyone think about the significance of the talisman that Demona had shared with Goliath before she started speaking in Latin and flames appeared out of nowhere?

It was hard to make people understand the time loop a bit. But it seemed really hard to make them see why I kept wanting to repeat scenes to show the connective tissue. We had to squeeze in Owen's "Honeymoon" line the second time. No one left space for it.

For the first of many times in the series, someone (X) says the line: "It's not where, it's when". (Erin: "I know when.")

I love X & Fox's relationship. "Having fun." "A marvelous time." Great stuff.

Hudson gets a close look at 1995 Goliath and immediately sees the age and wear and tear on the guy. (I love the shot of Goliath gagging him.) That says a lot for Hudson, because the visual difference between the two Gs was extremely subtle in the animation -- when it existed at all.

Knowing what we had planned (more or less) for Avalon, we were already laying groundwork here for that. Setting up the combined power of the Gate, Grimorum and Eye. Setting up the Archmage's desire for that power. Further demonstrating his enmity for the people he'd wind up using. Of course, making Demona his apprentice was fun. Tells a lot about her own desire for power that even when she was a good girl, she was still willing to work for the Archmage in order to learn his secrets. Willing even to steal for him.

The Norman Ambassador and Prince Malcolm make a BIG deal about how odd the Xanatoses' clothes are. But were they THAT strange? Was Fox's wedding gown that odd? And even if they were strange, did they look as shabby as Prince Malcolm seemed to suggest?

Not every episode gives you a double wedding. Fox and David. Elena and Malcolm. Hey, did anyone notice that we married off our lead villain? That was very daring, and we all but threw it away in Act One. Was anyone expecting Fox and X to really get married? And once they were, did you think you'd see them have a kid by season's end? I think we broke new ground there.

I like the exchange between Goliath and Hudson. Goliath's trying to explain that he's not a creature of sorcery, but a time traveler. H: "And I suppose you came back in time on the wind." O.k., well sorcery was involved if you're gonna get technical. And Goliath has some amusing tense problems while trying to describe what happened in his recent past, Hudson's FAR future. Then Hudson looks him in the eye and decides to trust him on no further evidence. Cool.

I knew a girl named Bryant from Bar Harbor, Maine once. That's where we got X's home town.

Fox is so proud of her man. But I love Petros' "Mr. Big-Shot Time Traveler" line. Or rather I love the way Morgan Shepard read the line.

How hard did Demona try to do things differently from the way she remembered them being done? She knows Goliath is going to fly down to try and join her and her younger self. She tries to leave before he can get there. But the gate stays open long enough for him to go with. Did it ever occur to her to go somewhen else other than 994? I guess part of it could be chalked up to dim memory. It was over a thousand years ago. And Demona lived through that 1000 years. Even for a very significant event in her life, it must still be very hazy.

That exchange between Demona and Demona is a lot of fun. Demona is so brutal to Demona. (And, hey, she spells out the Gate's power to any audience member who hasn't yet caught on.) "Do not share it with-- Do not share it!" I love that line. Also:

"I am what you will become."
"I will never be like you."
"I don't want to hurt you."
"And I don't want to BE you."

pretty cool stuff.

I also like the moment when we have two gates rolling about on the floor and young Demona and older Goliath both bend over to pick them up. At first we had a lot of discussion as to who should pick up which gate. But the discussion became moot, since after the gate pieces were reunited, they almost always seemed like they had never been broken in the first place. Magic.

And the young Demona, older Goliath scene is also gorgeous.

"What am I to do?"
"Nothing."

Love that. Love his whole "Do nothing/attend the petty jealousy" speech. I think it's very pretty. Very sad. At that moment, does Goliath hope he's changing the future? Or is he simply trying to spare this young Angel a couple extra decades of pain?

Showing Demona's natural bents again: Goliath isn't sure if he remembers the incantation, though he's heard it multiple times by this point. Young Demona, having only heard it ONCE, does remember and uses the Gate perfectly.

"Time Travel's funny that way." At least it is in the Gargoyle Universe with the strict, strict rules that I imposed. Of course, I've always thought that those strict rules made the stories more challenging for the writer and, yet, more fun and satisfying for the viewer.

I also really like Petros' "American Penny" speech. For once the "Xanatos Tag" of victory doesn't go to David.

Where did the expression "More's the pity." come from? I've heard it many times. I know what it means, though that's more from sound and context than from the words themselves. What am I quoting when I use it? Does anyone know? (This isn't a contest. I really don't know.)

Finally, my tape has the weird mistake ending that first aired, which shows Demona and Goliath in the clock tower. It's pretty, but it drives me nuts and I think it's really confusing. But I've talked about that many times before, and I'm sick of it, so this time, I'll let it go.

COMMENTS WELCOME!



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