More e-mails: CATMAN

Another e-mail exchange here. This one is from Fred Schaefer who was creating our proto-Talon character. He wanted some background on DC's Catman character. So I gave it to him.

[2] From: Greg Weisman 1/13/92 10:47AM (5292 bytes: 87 ln)
To: Fred Schaefer
bcc: Greg Weisman
Subject: GARGOYLE VILLAIN
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[FRED WROTE:]

Greg, I've created a villain (yes, he's big and powerful) called CAT SCAN. Later, I realized that you said avoid silly villains, using Cat Man as an example. What do you know about Cat Man, so I don't duplicate the character? I doubt that I have, though.

fs

[GREG RESPONDED:]
Catman is a batman villain. At his worst, he was just a guy who liked to steal cat related items. The Egyptian Cat god statue or a gold cat with ruby eyes. He was a former big game hunter who took on the identity of Catman when he got bored, I think. He'd use cat-related items to commit crimes, like a cat-o-nine-tails or a Cat-amaran or a catalogue. (I'm not kidding. At this level, he was simply stealing all the sillier aspects of the Catwoman's schtick.)

At his best, he had a couple of other twists that made him a bit more interesting. He had this cape, that he claimed gave him 9 lives. It was left intentionally vague whether he was just lucky to escape all these dangerous situations, or whether because he believed in the cape he had the confidence to survive, or whether the cape actually worked. One time when Batman ripped off part of the cape while Catman was trying to escape, Catman survived jumping thru a "wall" of high temperature steam. The next time he resurfaced, part of his face was scarred (sound familiar) and burnt by the steam. He blamed Batman, and the fact that a piece of the cape was torn. Even after that, it was still intentionally unclear whether he was just lucky to have survived at all, or whether the cape was in some way responsible. Since then writers have often forgotten that story, and Catman has been fairly inconsistent. Plus since he's now been around for many years, he's used up his nine lives (assuming he ever had them), and writers try to beat around that bush as well.

Another interesting element to the character was the rivalry between Catman and Catwoman, with Batman in the middle. Catwoman & Batman have this love-hate thang going. Plus she occasionally tries to go straight for his sake. (In one old story, that is no longer part of the "cannon" of the DC Universe, Batman and Catwoman got married and had a daughter who grew up to become a heroine named "The Huntress".) Catman and Catwoman used to fight over who had the right to the name, etc.

The key thing however is motivation, look and goal. Catman is a good example of a silly villain, because he has no real motivation beyond liking catstuff. No good reason to even like catstuff. His goal of stealing is just the kind of thing cops should handle. He's not dangerous enough. In later stories, his goal became more murderous. He wanted revenge on Batman and/or Catwoman, but that was because they had defeated him while he was just a glorified catburglar. Finally, his look is silly. He wears a mask with little cat ears, and he wears traditional superhero tights and a cape with a "CM" on his chest. I can bring in a shot of him tomorrow if you want.

There you go, more than you ever needed to know about him.

Except this: when I set out to write my Black Canary mini-series, which never got published, I thought that cats would be natural enemies to a canary, so I teamed up Catman with a Wonder Woman villainess called the Cheetah. I gave them a romance, because Cheetah was mentally scarred (i.e. crazy) and Catman's face was scarred by the steam. They loved each other because no one else would. This was done to off-set the fact that Black Canary's love-life (with another superhero named Green Arrow) was stagnant and hollow. "Even the badguys can have a committed relationship." It was the first issue of the four parter which would act as a catalyst for the two heroes to marry. The series was killed, because DC was approached by a very popular artist/writer who wanted to do Green Arrow. But wanted to keep the character single.

There. Now that's really more than you ever needed to know.

A species is born (again)...

More e-mail. Same day. Tad sends me back word that he can't go to the comic book store, and that I worry too much about Marvel.

But it's clear here that my own thinking is starting to crystalize a bit. I don't want our proto-Goliath to be a cursed/transformed human. In fact, I'm clearly leaning away from him being "created" at all. I'm leaning toward a species with multiple members. I'm bringing it back toward the comedy development but through the dramatic prism.

The Zot! reference below goes like this. I once (more than once actually) tried to get the various companies that I have worked for to option Zot! for animation. Someone once suggested to me that I just create my own Zot!. Obviously I balked at the notion of stealing the essence of someone else's idea. Here on Gargoyles, I felt we had developed something unique and our own. I didn't want, after the fact, to have been accused of stealing someone else's idea. As it turned out, I was accused of that anyway. But at least I could document that it wasn't true.

[20] From: Greg Weisman 1/10/92 11:55AM (1799 bytes: 28 ln)
To: Tad Stones, Mike Ryan, Kathy Fair, Fred Schaefer

cc: Hali Helfgott
bcc: Greg Weisman
Subject: Gargoyle

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[TAD WROTE:]
Sorry, I have a lunch today.

I think human to gargoyle is open territory because it's traditional horror transformation and certainly fairy tale stuff. Beauty and the Beast is the direct reference. The fact that both Marvel and DC have those characters shows that it's open territory. Not that I think the human to beast idea is necessarily the way to go.

[GREG RESPONDED:]
Personally, I don't like Human to beast. I feel a) like it's been done to death and b) like no matter how many times he says he can't be cured, you're gonna look for the cure and get frustrated when it doesn't come in a series.

It seems more unique to me if we are creating this new breed. They existed. He may be the only one left, though I might argue both sides of that issue, but it was something that has it's own traditions and mythology. Just another guy transformed ugly, Thing, Hulk, Beast, Beast, Gargoyle, Demon. That doesn't strike me as special.

And I think you underestimate the trouble that Marvel's Gargoyle might give us. We've developed to this character in a natural progression from an original notion. I personally would like to avoid taking turns that would make it look after the fact like we were copying them. It's like the Zot! situation in reverse.

More Tad e-mails...

Here's more of the e-mail exchanges between Tad Stones and the development department. Tad reminds me to be more adventurous (in more ways than one).

At the end, I ask if he's "geekin'", which was our word for going to the local comic book shop during lunch hour. (Or was that obvious?)

[3] From: Greg Weisman 1/10/92 11:41AM (1483 bytes: 26 ln)
To: Tad Stones, Mike Ryan, Kathy Fair, Fred Schaefer
cc: Greg Weisman, Hali Helfgott
Subject: Gargoyle

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[TAD WROTE:]
We should be careful with any "boy adventure" show we do. We've trained ourselves away from it to such an extent, that it's a kind of release to finally be able to handle different subject matter. You might rush in and put a good, solid show together ... without taking the time to make it special. I'm talking about more than good stories and characters ... we have to take the time to make it different, as different as DuckTales was from other funny animal shows. I think the romance might help give it a special tone.

[GREG'S RESPONSE:]
I don't disagree. And I'd love to have romance. (Sex and Death are the two things I miss from comic books.) I just don't know how much we're allowed to get away with romance-wise. Far from the "release" causing me to leave it out, is the conservative approach that the last two years have taught me.

And by the way, we can't do him as a human cursed to Gargoyle form. Both DC's Demon and Marvel's Gargoyle are humans cursed to monstrous form.

Are you geekin?

Mike responds to the guru...

Yesterday, I posted Tad Stones' response to our new "THE GARGOYLE" development. Here's staff assistant Mike Ryan's response to Tad.

Coincidentally, I had lunch with Mike yesterday. And he and Tad and I chatted briefly walking over to the Disney commissary.

[2] From: Mike Ryan 1/10/92 8:29AM (907 bytes: 16 ln)
To: Tad Stones, Greg Weisman, Kathy Fair, Fred Schaefer
Subject: Gargoyle
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Tad,

It's great to get a "fresh" perspective on this stuff. I was having the same nagging problem with the princess in the backstory, but couldn't quite pin down what the problem was. She really has no place in this show.

I think we sometimes we underestimate [executive] intelligence (you don't hear that statement too often!) and we are overexplaining everything in this pitch. Even if [an executive] doesn't know exactly what gargoyles were created for, he does have an idea of what they are. We can assume that much for all of our audience.

Finally, I agree that we're making a mistake to sidestep the romance.

My guru speaks...

When I started at Disney in 1989, my boss Bruce Cranston was immediately sent to Europe for SIX MONTHS to help open two studios there. That left the entire development department in my hands. And I had been there all of four days. It was a tremendous time for me. I learned a ton. And one of the guys I learned the most from was Tad Stones. We developed DARKWING DUCK together. (Or rather he developed it and I tried to help.) Tad was instrumental in convincing us to switch our comedy development to dramatic action. The idea of a proto-Goliath was really his. I gave him a copy of our latest pitch breakdown (already posted here, check the Archive). Here's his feedback, sent by e-mail.

[2] From: Tad Stones 1/10/92 7:17AM (5251 bytes: 85 ln)
To: Greg Weisman, Kathy Fair, Mike Ryan, Fred Schaefer
Subject: Gargoyle

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The latest presentation list looked pretty good. Just a few thoughts:

Don't shy away from romance. It's more than friendship between the girl and gargoyle.

I'd dump the Princess in the backstory. You don't need the parallel to- present day, and it weakens the present day relationship. He loves her for who she is ... not because of a guilt trip in the past or emotional transference.

Backstory: You don't need it except for the tragic betrayal, and that should be simple. Should the wizard literally create the gargoyle? Or is that too godlike? Two thoughts on gargoyle creation: 1) Start the pitch with a drawing of a stone gargoyle... or a photo from Notre Dame. "People think of gargoyles as grotesque decorations left from another age..." Then a medieval woodcut showing a gargoyle tossing knights over castle ramparts. "But there was a time when they were real." Then go to your Manhattan/Gargoyle beauty shot, "That time is today!" Actually, that last line is catchier than it is clear. The point is - don't waste time and art explaining gargoyles any more than you'd explain dinosaurs. They were demonic creatures. Period. I got it. Unless you tell me different, I'll assume there were all sorts, good and bad. You can go into all sorts of backstory in the two hour movie but it's not necessary for the pitch. There was the "king" of the gargoyles who protected the castle of Arthur (or whoever) but he was set up (framed) by the evil wizard. The walls of Camelot were breached and the Gargoyle is seen as a betrayer. Merlin has him sleep a petrified slumber as punishment. "You failed to guard it this night. Then you shall guard it for all eternity!!" As simple as possible, probably avoid using names because that complicates it.

2) He was human and framed. His punishment was a spell of petrification. But this spell has no cure, no princess's kiss or beauty's love will change him back.

The sunlight/sleep aspect of the gargoyle could be saved for a explanation of powers/weaknesses in the present day.

Art: Lose cards #2, 3 (redundant), 5 (seems like the gargoyle is taking action while the castle is still being lowered), 9 (one action card, not three. The guy has wings so I assume he can fly. Have him about to toss a truck while bullets bounce off him - show scared crooks and the cop amazed in the BG), 10 (for now - you can add it later if you need it), 12-18 (Simplify as discussed. WWII stuff fun but I'm not sure what it adds to the pitch. Isn't it more special that he hasn't helped until now - because of the love of the girl?) 19 and 20 (What kind of visual could Bob possibly draw. Pitch gets preachy and deadly) 21 (The "beauty shot" aspect fights what she's saying - Modify. Make it a poster, city as castle. It's the hook of the show, design this card as a showpiece.) 22 (We've already seen this when he saved her), 27 (redundant - if they don't have it by now, give up.) 28 through 30 (If you have great ideas on this stuff, add them. Is there a way to make them as fun as the crockery in Beauty and the Beast without making them gargoyles? Put your time in the villains. That's what Hasbro and the boy audience will be interested in. Supporting characters should be developed by the story editor anyway, not needed for the pitch.)

One last thought: He is the only gargoyle. No goofy gargoyles. No evil gargoyles (except MAYBE late in the series). Keep him special and unique one against the world - that's the gothic/heroic/tragic/romantic element. Don't diffuse it.

Put the pitch together without the art cards I've noted and write a pitch. Only then should you put the shackles on Bob to do the "Would be nice if you have the time" stuff. You might find you want completely different shadings. But run it by GK/JK [Gary Krisel and Jeffrey Katzenberg] before you go farther. Consider painting/airbrushing card 21 - the poster.

Neat stuff. Wish you had more time.

More on villains...

The same day as our last memo, Fred re-submitted the villain guidelines (his interpretations of stuff I told him) along with some notes on proto-Xanatos and proto-Magus/Arch-Mage.

RECEIVED BY
JAN 09 1992
GREG WEISMAN'S OFFICE

THE GARGOYLE -- WEISMAN GUIDELINES FOR VILLAINS
(Schaefer 1-9-92)

DISTRIBUTION: Cranston, Fair, Felix, Guler, Kline, Krisel, Ryan, Stones, Weisman

THE CRAZIES

-- Batman-esque villains. E.g. The Joker; Two Face (half of face scarred by acid; duality); Scarecrow (plays on people's fears, scares them to death). Avoid silly villains (e.g. the Penguin, the Riddler, Cat Man, Mr. Freeze).

-- The villains' craziness should be life-threatening. Attempted murder represents the majority of their crimes.

THE BIG GUYS

-- Considering what they'll be up against (The Gargoyle), physically they should be BIG, perhaps MUSCULAR, villains. Some may be hired by Xavier.

-- Fantasy-based. ogres, Trolls, etc.

-- Horror-based. A Mummy, A Werewolf, etc.

-- Empower the villains; make them formidable!

[Of course, there will be overlapping between the above two categories.]

AND THEN THERE'S XAVIER...

Very big, very rich, and very powerful. On a good day, he's vain, ruthless, lecherous, wicked, deceitful, unscrupulous, and vile. His corrupt hand is involved in a slew of nefarious endeavors. A self-taught Machiavellian; a manipulator, by nature.

He's a big, muscular man. His three-piece suit can scarcely contain his conspicuous bulk, much less maintain the air of civility desired by most businessman. But Xavier disdains most businessmen; they're weak, spineless cogs. Worker ants. Cowards. Powerless.

Powerlessness. Xavier abhors this more than anything in the world. It's his one big fear and the root cause of most of his frustrations.

A FINAL VILLAIN CATEGORY ... THE ANCIENT WIZARD

This is the Brit who created The Gargoyle 1000 years ago. Now he's back and he's mad as hell, but he doesn't know who to take it out on. The princess who turned the Gargoyle against him is long since dead. Of course, there's the Gargoyle. Well, what should the Ancient Wizard do? What's his big plan? Does he have a talisman that can place the Gargoyle (and the little gargoyles) under his power? How does it work? And how much power does it exert over them? Maybe Xavier discovers the Wizard's existence and views him as a threat. After all, the Wizard has powers that Xavier can never have and they both want the same thing -- The Gargoyle.

Villain-work...

After Fred Schaefer's attempt at Villains like Mortify, I must have sat him down to give him some pointers on more dramatic villains for our new dramatic series. He wrote up the following:

THE GARGOYLE -- WEISMAN GUIDELINES FOR VILLAINS (1-9-92)

DISTRIBUTION: Cranston, Fair, Felix, Guler, Kline, Ryan, Stones

-- Batman-esque villains. E.g. The Joker; Two Face (half of face scarred by acid; duality); Scarecrow (plays on people's fears, scares them to death). Avoid silly villains (e.g. the Penguin, the Riddler, Cat Man, Mr. Freeze).

-- The villains' craziness should be life-threatening. Attempted murder represents the majority of their crimes.

-- Considering what they'll be up against (The Gargoyle), physically they should be BIG, perhaps MUSCULAR, villains. Some may be hired by Xavier.

-- Fantasy-based. Ogres, Trolls, etc.
-- Horror-based. A Mummy, A Werewolf, etc.
-- Empower the villains; make them formidable!
(Compiled by Schaefer 1-9-92)

And now "THE GARGOYLE:

Now that we had left the comedy development behind, it was timE to start working on a pitch to sell our new dramatic development. I wrote what follows, breaking it down so that our artists could figure out what pictures they might need to draw.

NOTE: The show was (briefly) retitled "THE GARGOYLE". And the Gargoyle (proto-Goliath) was a magical creation who lived in despair through the thousand years. Some of which background was later better incorporated into Demona's story.

THE GARGOYLE
(Weisman / 1-7-92)

DISTRIBUTION: Cranston, Fair, Felix, Guler, Kline, Krisel, Ryan, Schaefer, Stones

PITCH BREAKDOWN
(First Pass)

1. Title Card

2. Typical stone gargoyles. (Perhaps stone versions of our mini characters.)

3. Pull back, we see them on the ramparts of a castle under seige by the evil army of the WIZARD. Stalemate.

4. Evil Wizard creates our GARGOYLE king.

5. GARGOYLE sets out very menacing to do the wizard's bidding.

6. PRINCESS turns our Gargoyle to the side of good. Touches his heart.

7. Gargoyle prepared to fight for Princess...(with small goofy army of little gargoyles?)...just as the sun begins to rise.

8. Gargoyle turns to stone at rise of sun. (As the wizard's army attacks?)

9. Sunset. The castle has been sacked. The princess is gone. Our Gargoyle is heartbroken. (More TRAGIC than pathetic.) He's failed.

10. The years pass. He haunts the ruined castle. Howling in front of the full moon??

11. Years in solitude. (Stealing books from library??)

12. Occasional forays into humanity? (World War II? Ripping the wings off a German plane?)

13. Always left with sense of isolation and futility. Nothing for him in this world. Nothing for 1000 years.

14. Than everything changes. Castle lifted by giant airships. Laputaesque.

15. Castle lowered onto XAVIER'S skyscraper.

16. Introduce NEW menacing XAVIER??? (Maybe save til later?)

17. Introduce our heroine. Female police detective? (Do we reuse the Princess model??) How does our Gargoyle meet her?

18. As before, this woman gives him hope, a sense of purpose. And real human friendship.

19. Gargoyles protect from Barbarians at the gate. Manhattan is full of "Barbarians". Gargoyle stops a mugging?

20. Escalate. He stops a car full of bank robbers in it's tracks.

21. Escalate. Major villain card.

22. Escalate. Even tougher villain card.

23. Escalate. The toughest villain card. (Show villain and Gargoyle fighting?)

24. Gargoyle in city atmosphere. Gothic melodrama in very modern setting.

25. Maybe introduce Xavier here? Or perhaps in some way, shape or form, reintroduce threat of the Wizard? Are these two related?

26. Supporting characters. (Other gargoyles, perhaps, or our lead girl's kid? Other cops? The old librarian?)

27. Where does he live? Still in Xavier's tower? With Xavier? The library maybe?

28. Other types of stories?

29. End Card.

Open to suggestions and input. (Particularly from you, Gary. Call me if you get a chance. I don't want to lose time while your out of town.) There are a lot of open issues here. Most important, is this the structure your looking for, or do we want to begin in the present, with a compact flashback for explanation? It's harder to get the capital-T Tragic element in that way, but we're less likely to get the question "So this takes place in the past?" from JK or ME at the end of the pitch.