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Makhasu writes...
Why did Goliath forgive the Captain of the Guards? Sure, he may not have intended for the Gargoyles to die, but he had no problems with the deaths of the soldiers of the castle, the refugees who were unlikely to be spared, etc... He even helped Hakon chase down Katherine when she tried to flee. This guy's just as creepy as any other villain we've seen.
Greg responds...
Forgiveness helps the forgiver at least as much as the forgiven. Or that's the theory.
Makhasu writes...
You've hinted that Luach was conceived during the time that Gruoch was married to Gillecomgain, with Macbeth being the father. Why would he and Gruoch take such a risk? He gave her up for her own safety... committing adultery would probably have resulted in her execution.
Greg responds...
Yep. So why would they take the risk?
The only answer I have is... why do you think?
Just to be clear, I'd like to make the point that I haven't "hinted" that Luach was conceived during Gruoch's marriage to Gillecomgain. Luach was definitely conceived during that time. I have suggested that PERHAPS Macbeth was the biological father, but that neither Gruoch or Macbeth know for sure.
Raye writes...
Hi, my question concerns Demona and Gruoch, two of my favourite characters (One of my favourite moments in "Gargoyles" is when Demona goes completely against her prejudices and saves Macbeth and Gruoch when they're slipping from the parapet, and Gruoch's nervous little "thank you" to her afterwards). But anyway:
1. During the "Golden Age" of Macbeth's rule, how well did Gruoch and Demona get on? Or to make the question a bit more generalised, what was their relationship?
Obviously they wouldn't have been best friends, but I also can assume that as such close companions to Macbeth they would have spent a reasonable amount of time in each other's company.
2a. Would they have considered each other as a "friend"?
2b. Or was there a little bit of resentment/jealously/competition going on in terms of their separate relationships with Macbeth?
2c. Or did they just stay out of each other's way?
Thank you very much in advance for any reply you give me, I think the time and effort you put into communicating with fans is amazing! My fingers are crossed that the second half of season two will make it to DVD.
Greg responds...
1. I'd like to explore this someday. But generally, I think they got along on the surface, but that each had a healthy suspicion of the other.
2a. Try "ally".
2b. I'm not sure I'd characterize it that way. Demona distrusts humans. Gruoch distrusted Demona.
2c. Largely.
Richard writes...
If Donald Canmore was indeed the wellspring of the Hunter line and ancestor of Jason, Jon and Fiona how exactly did he sire children before his death at the young age of seventeen(1068-1085) or is this another misreporting of history similar to Macbeth actually being killed by Malcom Canmore or Malory and those writers before him leaving out gargoyles because of the prejudice of the time :) ?
Greg responds...
Huh. The research I have indicates that Donald Canmore was born in 1069 and died in 1093. If that's wrong, it does screw me up a bit. I guess I'll need to triple check.
Todd Jensen writes...
A long while ago, somebody asked you about what elements that you're strongly opposed to had been brought into "Gargoyles", and you said that illiteracy was one of them. Now, this clearly showed up in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", with its point about how being able to read was important. But it recently occurred to me that the dangers of illiteracy showed up in another episode: "Awakening Part Two".
When Hakon tears a few pages out of the Grimorum and burns them (among them the counter-spell), he says sneeringly about the spell book, "Makes me glad I can't read." Thus, Hakon's illiteracy (and pride in it) is tied in to the destruction of the counter-spell, which results in the Magus being unable to undo his spell on the gargoyles, meaning that they're trapped in their stone sleep for the next thousand years.
I don't know whether you'd consciously planned for Hakon's illiteracy to be a factor in his act or if it was just a "fortunate accident", but I did find it interesting enough to mention it.
Greg responds...
It was VERY conscious. Long before "Lighthouse" was a glimmer in my eye, that was a message that I tried to get across with Hakon.
Todd Jensen writes...
In the first two parts of "City of Stone", Duncan, while not yet King, often acts as though he already had royal authority. He appoints Gillecomgain to the post of High Steward of Moray, with no sign of having consulted his grandfather Maol Chalvim first. He also has the power to force a marriage between Gruoch and Gillecomgain, with Bodhe saying that it would be high treason to deny Duncan's wishes on the matter. In fact, he appears in the first two parts of "City of Stone" to be king in all but name, despite the fact that he doesn't become King of Scotland until two years after the events in "City of Stone Part Two". Do you have any thoughts on this?
Greg responds...
Thought one... we were simplifying our storytelling by not including Maol Chalvim.
Thought two... I think Maol may have invested considerable authority into his grandson.
Thought three... I wouldn't be surprised to find out Duncan had "incapacitated" Maol to some degree...
Todd Jensen writes...
In "Avalon Part One", Maol Chalvim displays strong suspicions towards Constantine in his conversation with Kenneth. While Constantine's subsequent actions (murdering Kenneth and seizing the throne) show Maol Chalvim's suspicions to be justified, I can't help also remembering what you said about how Maol Chalvim would himself usurp the throne from Kenneth III ten years later. Was Maol Chalvim's attitude towards Constantine intended, in part, to be one based on "I suspect him of plotting treachery, because that's what I'd do in his place?" (a la Elisa's remark in "Protection" about how the corrupt are always readiest to believe that others can be corrupted)?
Greg responds...
To some degree, we were planting seeds for what we knew was to come -- and for what we had already revealed. Maol Chalvim's grandchildren were Duncan and Macbeth (and Thorfinn). Maol favored Duncan. What does that tell you?
matt8387 writes...
Did Hakon die before or after Macbeth was born?
Greg responds...
Before.
Aves writes...
Hi Greg,
I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.
Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.
Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.
I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.
Greg responds...
Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...
Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").
Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).
Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.
Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)
Hope that clears it up.
Anonymous writes...
MacBeth was Scottish nobility and related to the king; so is he a from the line of Princess Katherine or the usurper, Constantine?
Greg responds...
Well, they're all related, at least distantly.
But here goes...
Kenneth I (the first high king of Scotland) had two sons Constantine I and Aodh.
Connie-1 begot Donald II. Meanwhile (to keep our generations straight) Aodh begot Constantine II.
Donnie-2 begot Maol Chalvim I, while Connie-2 begot Indulf. (Up to this point, NONE of these are people we've met in the series.)
Maollie-1 had three sons: Duff, Kenneth II and [the fictional] Malcolm of Wyvern, while Innie begot Culen.
Kennie-2 (Katharine's uncle) begot Maol Chalvim II (Katharine's cousin) while Malcolm of Wyvern begot [the equally fictional] Katharine... and while Cullie begot Constantine III. (All of these characters, except Cullen, were featured in "Avalon, Part One".)
Maollie-2 had three daughters and no sons.
The eldest Bethoc begot Duncan I (from "City of Stone"). The middle daughter Doada married Findlaech and begot Macbeth.
It's easier to see on a chart. But hopefully you can make your own chart with the info provided.
Phoenician writes...
Dear Greg,
I remember in Awakening Part II when Xanatos asks Owen to bring in the construction crew to transport Castle Wyvern to Manhatten, and Owen replies saying that not only will the cost be "Astronomical," but not many are willing to do it because the locals say Castle Wyvern is Haunted. My question is are the hauntings Owen refers to created by the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain, since as far as I know they may have hovered there for over a thousand years (I think Hakon mentions that himself, but I won't promise to it). If this was asked at some Gathering I wouldn't know since I've never been to one. However I do plan on going to Montreal this coming year! (:
Greg responds...
Did you make it?
Anyway, yes. Hakon and the Captain.
Todd Jensen writes...
An "Upgrade" question. During the gargoyles' fight with the Pack at the bank at the beginning of the episode, Wolf shouts, as the Pack is retreating, "This isn't over!" The last time that I watched this episode on tape, I realized that those were the exact same words that Hakon shouted in "Awakening Part One" after the gargoyles had turned back his first attack on the castle.
Did you know at the time that Wolf was descended from Hakon, and put that line of Wolf's in as a foreshadowing of "Vendettas"?
Greg responds...
Yes.
John writes...
Hi, I wanted to ask a couple of questions related to Scottish royal genealogy and Gargoyles.
First, I was wondering about the identity of Prince Malcolm. Having read "Once upon a time, there were three brothers," I see that you make him the youngest son of King Malcolm I. But the sources I have note only two sons - Duff and Kenneth II. Is Prince Malcolm, then, made up? (Duff, I'd note, had a younger son Malcolm who died in 990...)
Second, in "City of Stone", Lulach/Luach is depicted as Macbeth's son, but in actual history, he was Gruoch's son by Gillecomgain (who is the first Hunter, in Gargoyles). Was this change made on purpose, to simplify things, or was it a mistake?
Thanks. (And just wanted to say that these aren't criticisms. I remember when I first watched Gargoyles how impressed I was by the effort that was made to actually depict a recognizable version of Scottish early Medieval history - "City of Stone" was what really drew me in to the show in the first place. I'd seen it a few times before that, and then I remember coming home from school and saying "a cartoon show with a revisionist version of the story of Macbeth? What's going on?" And after that I was hooked.)
Greg responds...
1. Yes, Malcolm and his daughter Katharine are fictional characters that we added to the Gargoyles' Universe.
2. It wasn't a mistake. Our research indicated that Macbeth adopted Lulach/Luach. I have posited that perhaps the reason he did that was because he was in fact the boy's father... conceived before Macbeth & Gruoch were actually married.
Glad you liked it.
Macbeth writes...
When was Bodhe born and when Bodhe died ?
Greg responds...
The research I have indicates that Bodhe, a son of Kenneth III, was born in 985 and died in 1058 at the age of 73. To be honest, I've found that different sources often have different dates, so it's hard to be 100% sure. But these, I've decided, are the dates of the Garg-Universe Bodhe.
Todd Jensen writes...
In "City of Stone Part Four", when Canmore is invading Scotland as the Hunter, he doesn't reveal his true identity as Canmore until facing Macbeth directly just after the fall of Castle Moray. I recently found myself wondering why he did that for so long; after all, in concealing his identity as "Canmore, son of Duncan, rightful king of Scotland, come to reclaim what's his" he was apparently throwing away a great propaganda advantage. Why did he conceal his true identity for most of that time?
Greg responds...
Let me try putting it this way: the Batman joined with the citizens of Metropolis to secure Gotham City's throne for Bruce Wayne. He simply didn't want people to know that HE was Bruce Wayne. He didn't want to make himself THAT kind of target.
Yes, of course, as Batman, he was another kind of target. But we don't see him taking the lead in any battles. If he keeps back -- as the Batman -- no one's likely to specifically go after him. Plus, as the Joker and Riddler were seen as his primary targets, than the mysterious reappearance of the Batman was a huge propoganda coup.
But that's not to say that Bruce Wayne wasn't part of the propaganda mix.
Now substitute:
Canmore for Bruce Wayne
The Hunter for the Batman
The English for the citizens of Metropolis
Scotland for Gotham City
The Gargoyles for the Joker
Macbeth for the Riddler
TakariFreak writes...
Hopefully this has not been asked/answered before..Can't find it in the archives.
Why were the vikings attacking Castle Wyvern? Because they could? Or some other reason?
Just a side comment...until a few days ago, I had never known that Fang actually asks Goliath "How many gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"!! Have I missed a lot!
Greg responds...
Plunder.
Todd Jensen writes...
Here's my ramble on "Shadows of the Past".
First off, of course, this is where the Avalon World Tour begins (if you don't count the "Avalon" triptych), which makes it a biggie. I agree with you that the reruns in between the three instalments of it (which aired, as I recall, in November-December 1995, February 1996, and May 1996 - more or less) make the World Tour seem longer than it really was. (Incidentally, you're right that you were able to bring out more than 18 episodes of "Gargoyles" in the September-December period; I remembered that the "fall run" ended with "Grief", and so worked out that it was 30 new episodes during that period).
As I mentioned before, I enjoyed the Avalon World Tour, and agree with you that something like that was necessary for the series at some point (especially in bringing in enough other gargoyles to make it feasible for the species to survive and recover - as I've mentioned here before, something along the lines of the World Tour was probably the only realistic way for Goliath to discover that there were gargoyles left in other parts of the world, given that he couldn't simply hop on board the next flight from New York to London or Japan).
Angela's correct (from the original legends perspective) about it always being summer on Avalon; in fact, I remember that the old Welsh legends about Avalon (or, more accurately, its "literary predecessors") called it the Summer Country or the Region of the Summer Stars.
In hindsight from "Vendettas", I picked up on the significance of that axe that Goliath unearths - and agree with you now that Hakon's mace from the Wyvern Massacre would indeed have worked better. Too late for that now, though.
I also liked that line (which I considered very poetic) of Elisa's about "old wounds".
The Captain and Hakon's tormenting of Goliath was very effective - probably the creepiest part, in my opinion, was when Angela and Elisa appear in Goliath's eyes to be the Captain and Hakon - but then we hear Angela and Elisa's voices coming from the Captain and Hakon's mouths.
The Captain of the Guard's change of heart worked for me (again, I especially liked the bit that you mentioned where he's looking troubledly at his hands as he and Hakon solidify). In fact, it made sense in view of his role in "Awakening" - he'd never wanted the clan massacred, and was horrified as to how that had gone wrong. I might add that Hakon showed, again, just how creepy he is when he gets into the fight with Goliath and begins laughing as his fists pass through Goliath - the reason for that being now, not that Hakon's insubstantial and Goliath solid, but the other way around.
Incidentally, the Captain actually appears better-looking in the scene where he's giving Goliath his thanks, just before he ascends.
And I'll confess that I'm one of those who would have preferred Hakon to have remained trapped in the cave for all time - I felt, when "Vendettas" aired, that it destroyed some of the effectiveness, in retrospect, of Hakon's sentence: trapped alone for eternity, with nobody at hand for him to hate. (Also, "Vendettas" felt anticlimactic on the Hakon front; in "Shadows of the Past", he battles Goliath by skillfully undermining him with a lot of psychological subtlety; in "Vendettas", he's reduced to simply fighting him in a slugfest with a big dumb werewolf - though don't tell Wolf that I called him that. :) ). But I do think that you made a good point about how, ultimately, Hakon would have to be given more permanent resolution than just that.
Incidentally, your treatment of the megalith that the Captain and Hakon were using, and your comments on it, make me wonder now how you would have handled Stonehenge if you'd ever gotten to do an episode involving it (especially since you mentioned having had plans to send King Arthur and Griff there during their quest for Merlin) - a pity that we may never know the answer to that now.
Greg responds...
*I think it's appropriate that as the Captain is (in essence) redeemed and "ascends", that he is beatified a bit.
*I get what you're saying about Hakon, certainly. And yet, I really like "Vendettas" and hardly think that Hakon's post-Vendettas fate is likely to be any kinder than his post-Shadows fate. And although Hakon was the series' first big villain, he was hardly the most impressive of our villainous creations.
But, let's be honest, I just couldn't resist giving Clancy Brown the opportunity for a David Warner-esque tour de force performance. I'm sure I'll get into this topic more when (some day) I get around to rambling on Vendettas, but I think Clancy's double duty in Vendettas is perhaps even more impressive than what Warner did -- (a) because Clancy did what he did with a then amateur voice director (i.e. me) and (b) because the two characters he was playing (Wolf & Hakon) allowed for much less subtlty than Warner's two Archmages. (This of course, is not designed to take any credit away from the brilliant David Warner, simply to give Clancy his just desserts as well. And speaking of Clancy, he does a great Mr. Freeze in the new "The Batman" series.)
*The ideas used in Shadows for the Megaliths, were in fact cribbed from ideas I've had for Stonehenge for some time. (Pre-dating the creation of Gargoyles, in fact.) It would be interesting to see (even to me) how I handled Stonehenge now. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to repeat myself, but I'd also want to be consistent and I don't want to betray the notions I've had in my head forever. That's the problem when your brain begins to cannibalize its own ideas. A danger I find myself facing all the time.
person writes...
Hi Greg. Here's my question.
In Awakening part one, a man covered in white made a bargain with Hakon. Was that The Magus? And what did it have to do with the whole spell thing? Because I know it was Demona and Captain of the Guard's idea to let the Vikings have the castle. I just don't know what the Magus(or whoever it was)had to do with it.
Thanks!
Greg responds...
It was the Captain. We simply tried to fool you into thinking it was the Magus.
Wolfram Bane (wolfram_bane@hotmail.com) writes...
Macbeth
In the Gargoyles universe, you mention that Luach was the son of Macbeth and Gruoch, and born in 1033. In actual history, Luach was the son of Gillcomgain and Gruoch, and born in 1030. After Gillcomgain's death in 1032, Macbeth married Gruoch and adopted Luach as his own son and heir, and Luach even succeeded Macbeth as King briefly in 1054. I was curious as to the reasons you modified these aspects of history?
Greg responds...
I didn't. Not to my knowledge. My research indicates that Lulach (Luach) was born in early 1033, after Gillecomgain's death, but too soon to be Macbeth's son (at least legally). We glanced over it in the episode, but, yes, Macbeth adopts Gillecomgain after marrying Gruoch in 1032.
Further, my research indicated that rumors were rampant in court that Mac was actually Lulach's biological father, as well.
It's possible the research I received was faulty. (For example, a typo caused us to spell and pronounce Lulach's name incorrectly.) But we made every effort to weave our fiction among the facts -- without changing those facts.
The date of Lulach's birth is approximate anyway. So any time between 1030 and 1033 is probably "legitimate".
Wolfram Bane (wolfram_bane@hotmail.com) writes...
Hunters
Through which of Malcolm Canmore's children do the Canmore family of Hunters (Charles, Jon, Jason, Robyn, et al) descend from? Is it from one of the children from his first mariage to Ingibiorg Finnsdottir (King Duncan II, Malcolm or Donald), his second marriage to St. Margaret Atheling (King Edmund I, King Edgar, King Alexander I the Fierce, King David I the Saint, Edward, Ethelred, Matilda or Mary), or as yet another child?
Greg responds...
I debated with myself as to whether or not I wanted to reveal this at this time, but what the heck...
The answer is Donald Canmore.
Gipdac writes...
I could be wrong, but in Vendettas I think Hudson called Hakon "Hakon the destroyer of clans". So, did Hakon have a reputation for smashing gargoyle clan or so it just the one?
Greg responds...
I don't know if that's an exact quotation. I think he called him, "Hakon, Clan-Slaughterer". But I might be mistaken.
In any case, Hudson was referring to the Wyvern Clan.
Todd Jensen writes...
When, in "City of Stone Part Two", Duncan manipulated Macbeth into seeking out Gillecomgain to avenge his father, what was he hoping the result would be:
a. That Macbeth would slay Gillecomgain, thus ridding Duncan of an increasingly unreliable and likely rebellious former ally? (The result, of course, that actually happened).
b. That Gillecomgain would slay Macbeth, Duncan's leading rival to the throne?
c. That the two of them would kill each other, thus ridding Duncan of both of them?
Greg responds...
Well, I'm sure his ultimate preference would have been c, of course. But either a or b were good news, so he'd settle happily for the a he got.
Stephaneus writes...
Hi Greg Happy New Year all
Vanity(don't you mean Gruouch??)
Know this is about Awakenings (which I think is the best episode in the whole series). Goliath caught Hakon's sword. What is the deal. Hudson's little dagger in Long way to morning cut a statue in half. But Hakons double edged long sword could only scratch Goliath. He's tough and rugged but come on now. And I really loved Hakon's reaction "Fight men they're not invincible" If that isn't invincible what the hell is? Why should Goliath even dodge weapons they just bounce off anyway?
Why did you let that happen? Catching a sword without it even hurting him seriously at all!!
Super Stephaneus
Greg responds...
I don't know what you're referring to vis-a-vis Vanity/Gruoch...?
As to your Awakening question, Hakon's sword did hurt Goliath. Cut down to the bone. He just toughed it out. Cuz he's Goliath. That's who he is. You expected him to cry?
And Hakon's sword could certainly cut THROUGH bone. But he would have needed to put more power behind the swing to do that. Given his position on that tower, Hakon did the best he could, but it wasn't good enough, and Goliath's been in enough fights to know what he can and cannot take. He stopped the blow with his hand before it could gain enough momentum to do serious damage.
What Hakon saw, before he spoke his line, was the Goliath's blood. We made a point of that, and even convinced our S&P exec to let us show the blood. Which is very rare for cartoons. If Goliath had been invincible, there would have been no blood. And the sword would have bounced off his hide. Which it didn't. Weapons don't bounce off our gargs.
Hudson doesn't have a dagger, by the way, but a sword. And a lot of Gargoyle muscle behind his swing.
And you, Super, have a lot of attitude, bordering on disrespect. Just so you know, it's really off-putting.
Fiona Seckari writes...
Dear Mr. Weisman,
I have a questoin for you, and I am fully aware that you will probably exercise you're right to not answer it because it is a question that could possibly involve a lot of writting, that you haven't given any thought to, don't feel like answering, or just be stupid. So, I thank you so much for you're time :) and for such a kick'n show :) and for the super hot character of Puck :D so here's my question:
In "The City of Stone" flashback after Mac Beth successfully wins the battle against Duncan, he exilles Prince Canmore. What happens to him right after the guards take him away? Do they put him on a boat straight to England? Does he get an escort? Does he get to pack? Do they feed him? Does he try to escape again?
2. Is the Prince Canmore in "The City of Stone" full name Malcom Canmore III ?
I realize I am probably just being curious about silly stuff in a really awesome show, but I'm so curious about it I just have to ask! Plus, even if curiousity killed the cat, satisfaction brought her back! LOVE YA!
Greg responds...
1. Well, I doubt he took a boat from Scotland to England. He was probably escorted there, with messengers sent ahead so that the English would expect his arrival. Did they feed him en route? Yes. Did he get to pack? I don't know. Probably not. Does he try to escape? No. I think at this point he goes to England and tries to win the English over to his side.
2. Canmore = Malcolm III = Malcolm Canmore = Maol Chalvim III = Ceann Mor = Big Head
Alex Katsaros writes...
what is the significance of the bird on top of Hakon's helmet?
Greg responds...
Fresh eggs?
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