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If Donald Canmore was indeed the wellspring of the Hunter line and ancestor of Jason, Jon and Fiona how exactly did he sire children before his death at the young age of seventeen(1068-1085) or is this another misreporting of history similar to Macbeth actually being killed by Malcom Canmore or Malory and those writers before him leaving out gargoyles because of the prejudice of the time :) ?
Huh. The research I have indicates that Donald Canmore was born in 1069 and died in 1093. If that's wrong, it does screw me up a bit. I guess I'll need to triple check.
A long while ago, somebody asked you about what elements that you're strongly opposed to had been brought into "Gargoyles", and you said that illiteracy was one of them. Now, this clearly showed up in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", with its point about how being able to read was important. But it recently occurred to me that the dangers of illiteracy showed up in another episode: "Awakening Part Two".
When Hakon tears a few pages out of the Grimorum and burns them (among them the counter-spell), he says sneeringly about the spell book, "Makes me glad I can't read." Thus, Hakon's illiteracy (and pride in it) is tied in to the destruction of the counter-spell, which results in the Magus being unable to undo his spell on the gargoyles, meaning that they're trapped in their stone sleep for the next thousand years.
I don't know whether you'd consciously planned for Hakon's illiteracy to be a factor in his act or if it was just a "fortunate accident", but I did find it interesting enough to mention it.
It was VERY conscious. Long before "Lighthouse" was a glimmer in my eye, that was a message that I tried to get across with Hakon.
In the first two parts of "City of Stone", Duncan, while not yet King, often acts as though he already had royal authority. He appoints Gillecomgain to the post of High Steward of Moray, with no sign of having consulted his grandfather Maol Chalvim first. He also has the power to force a marriage between Gruoch and Gillecomgain, with Bodhe saying that it would be high treason to deny Duncan's wishes on the matter. In fact, he appears in the first two parts of "City of Stone" to be king in all but name, despite the fact that he doesn't become King of Scotland until two years after the events in "City of Stone Part Two". Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thought one... we were simplifying our storytelling by not including Maol Chalvim.
Thought two... I think Maol may have invested considerable authority into his grandson.
Thought three... I wouldn't be surprised to find out Duncan had "incapacitated" Maol to some degree...
In "Avalon Part One", Maol Chalvim displays strong suspicions towards Constantine in his conversation with Kenneth. While Constantine's subsequent actions (murdering Kenneth and seizing the throne) show Maol Chalvim's suspicions to be justified, I can't help also remembering what you said about how Maol Chalvim would himself usurp the throne from Kenneth III ten years later. Was Maol Chalvim's attitude towards Constantine intended, in part, to be one based on "I suspect him of plotting treachery, because that's what I'd do in his place?" (a la Elisa's remark in "Protection" about how the corrupt are always readiest to believe that others can be corrupted)?
To some degree, we were planting seeds for what we knew was to come -- and for what we had already revealed. Maol Chalvim's grandchildren were Duncan and Macbeth (and Thorfinn). Maol favored Duncan. What does that tell you?
Did Hakon die before or after Macbeth was born?
Before.
Hi Greg,
I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.
Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.
Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.
I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.
Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...
Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").
Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).
Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.
Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)
Hope that clears it up.
MacBeth was Scottish nobility and related to the king; so is he a from the line of Princess Katherine or the usurper, Constantine?
Well, they're all related, at least distantly.
But here goes...
Kenneth I (the first high king of Scotland) had two sons Constantine I and Aodh.
Connie-1 begot Donald II. Meanwhile (to keep our generations straight) Aodh begot Constantine II.
Donnie-2 begot Maol Chalvim I, while Connie-2 begot Indulf. (Up to this point, NONE of these are people we've met in the series.)
Maollie-1 had three sons: Duff, Kenneth II and [the fictional] Malcolm of Wyvern, while Innie begot Culen.
Kennie-2 (Katharine's uncle) begot Maol Chalvim II (Katharine's cousin) while Malcolm of Wyvern begot [the equally fictional] Katharine... and while Cullie begot Constantine III. (All of these characters, except Cullen, were featured in "Avalon, Part One".)
Maollie-2 had three daughters and no sons.
The eldest Bethoc begot Duncan I (from "City of Stone"). The middle daughter Doada married Findlaech and begot Macbeth.
It's easier to see on a chart. But hopefully you can make your own chart with the info provided.
Dear Greg,
I remember in Awakening Part II when Xanatos asks Owen to bring in the construction crew to transport Castle Wyvern to Manhatten, and Owen replies saying that not only will the cost be "Astronomical," but not many are willing to do it because the locals say Castle Wyvern is Haunted. My question is are the hauntings Owen refers to created by the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain, since as far as I know they may have hovered there for over a thousand years (I think Hakon mentions that himself, but I won't promise to it). If this was asked at some Gathering I wouldn't know since I've never been to one. However I do plan on going to Montreal this coming year! (:
Did you make it?
Anyway, yes. Hakon and the Captain.
An "Upgrade" question. During the gargoyles' fight with the Pack at the bank at the beginning of the episode, Wolf shouts, as the Pack is retreating, "This isn't over!" The last time that I watched this episode on tape, I realized that those were the exact same words that Hakon shouted in "Awakening Part One" after the gargoyles had turned back his first attack on the castle.
Did you know at the time that Wolf was descended from Hakon, and put that line of Wolf's in as a foreshadowing of "Vendettas"?
Yes.
Hi, I wanted to ask a couple of questions related to Scottish royal genealogy and Gargoyles.
First, I was wondering about the identity of Prince Malcolm. Having read "Once upon a time, there were three brothers," I see that you make him the youngest son of King Malcolm I. But the sources I have note only two sons - Duff and Kenneth II. Is Prince Malcolm, then, made up? (Duff, I'd note, had a younger son Malcolm who died in 990...)
Second, in "City of Stone", Lulach/Luach is depicted as Macbeth's son, but in actual history, he was Gruoch's son by Gillecomgain (who is the first Hunter, in Gargoyles). Was this change made on purpose, to simplify things, or was it a mistake?
Thanks. (And just wanted to say that these aren't criticisms. I remember when I first watched Gargoyles how impressed I was by the effort that was made to actually depict a recognizable version of Scottish early Medieval history - "City of Stone" was what really drew me in to the show in the first place. I'd seen it a few times before that, and then I remember coming home from school and saying "a cartoon show with a revisionist version of the story of Macbeth? What's going on?" And after that I was hooked.)
1. Yes, Malcolm and his daughter Katharine are fictional characters that we added to the Gargoyles' Universe.
2. It wasn't a mistake. Our research indicated that Macbeth adopted Lulach/Luach. I have posited that perhaps the reason he did that was because he was in fact the boy's father... conceived before Macbeth & Gruoch were actually married.
Glad you liked it.
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