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RESPONSES 2001-3 (March)
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LSZ writes...
Do gargoyles need to bathe, or are body odours etc disposed of via stone sleep?
Greg responds...
Bathing helps periodically.
Jim R. writes...
I'm still a little baffled about Timedancing Brooklyn and the story behind him. You state that when Goliath threw the Phoenix gate into itself without a mind to guide it, it would be forever lost in the time stream. Then you went on to say that it lands in front of Brooklyn.
1. Why did you choose Brooklyn?
2. When does it land in front of him, in what time?
I was reading through the archived responses about this, and you say that he never lays a finger on the gate.
3. But how is it possible for him to travel forty years leaping in and out of random time shifts the gate creates? The gate is just a talisman, without a mind or the incantation it really can't go anywhere, which leads me to my next question.
4. If Brooklyn is susceptable to random time shifts, how long does he or can he stay, in one time?
5. Why couldn't he lay a finger on the gate? I mean surely he would eventually find out how the gate works in some time, grab it, speak the incantation, and boom! he's back home again in his own time exactly when he left. Brooklyn isn't that stupid, he surely would have had some pre-existing knowledge from Goliath about the dangers of the gate.
Please. Maybe you could explain this whole Timedancer mess in better detail or in a nutshell, or at least point me out someplace online I could go to read more about it in further detail.
Greg responds...
No, I stated that Goliath threw the Phoenix Gate into the Timestream -- not itself.
1. He chose me largely. He was ready for the next step in his character's evolution. And I felt he could carry a series.
2. In "the present". Originally, that meant 1996. I'm not sure now. I'm leaning toward '97 though. Not 2001.
3. No, it goes everywhere and everywhen. It seems to be random. But the timestream itself may have currents and eddies guiding it.
4. There's no consistent rule.
5. He can never get to it in time.
The only place I can point you for more detailed info is the TimeDancer archive here at ASK GREG. (This doesn't seem that complicated to me, however. I certainly wouldn't call it a 'mess'.)
matt writes...
you've said before that unless their bodies are destroyed that the Coldtrio will live forever, so will any or all of them be around in 2198?
Greg responds...
Not saying.
matt writes...
i just want you to confirm that Gabriel is definetly Othello and Desdemona's biological child, cuz lately there has been talk of Iago having a child on Avalon and Gabriel has some features, the large brow ridges and the small horns on his chin, that we've only see in one other gargoyle, Iago. so, if Iago has a biological child on Avalon, its not Gabriel, right?
Greg responds...
Gabriel is Othello and Desdemona's biological child.
You heard it here first.
About four years ago.
Slow writes...
Re: High Noon
I have to say that I was very confused about the three Desdemonas. Until someone mentioned it in Ask Greg I just figured it was the writer wanting to do strange and surreal stuff inside Coldstone's head. The animation was so good I never would've noticed the colour mistake. If it wasn't for this venue, I'd never have known.
"This is diverting." "You don't know the half of it."
Sure, I laughed when I first heard the line accompanied by the expression on Coldstone's face. But when I watched the episode again a few years later, I thought that Macbeth's response may have been a hint (subconsciously, maybe) that the entire situation was a diversion (staged to get the talismans). Am I wrong to think that Mac may not have been as interested in the girl-fight as it sounded?
Greg responds...
Nah. It works both ways.
Erin Peretti writes...
I am absolutely fascinated with your comment that Gargoyle's MacBeth was more historically accurate than Shakespeare's (obviously ommitting Demona and immortality).
What parts were more accurate?
I know this is a pain, but would you happen to know where I could find some historically accurate accounts of Macbeth? His home, his full name, whether Duncan was the perfect king potrayed in the play, etc....
What research materials did you use when writing Mac for Gargoyles?
Is Glamis castle in Scotland really Mac's castle, as I have been told?
Thanks so much!!!
Greg responds...
Most of the research on Macbeth was done by Monique Beatty and Tuppence Macintyre. I did little or none myself. (I didn't have time.) Monique was my assistant (and is now a producer in her own right). Tup is a close friend and a Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney.
I know Holinshed was of some use. But I don't know what other books they used specifically.
Almost everything we did -- minus the gargs and Weird Sisters and the Mask of the Hunter -- was more accurate historically than Shaekespeare. (Not better, just more accurate.) Duncan and his father hired Gillecomgain to assassinate Mac's father. They rewarded him with Mac's title and with Gruouch. Mac eventually killed Gille and married Gruoch, adopting her boy Lulach as his own. There were some rumours that Lulach WAS his child.
Mac killed Duncan in battle, not while Duncan was a guest in his house. Mac ruled wisely for seventeen years and was overthrown by Malcolm Canmore, who was backed by the English. Etc.
I'm not 100% sure about Glamis, but I believe Macbeth's historical home was Castle Moray (also called Murray).
Todd Jensen writes...
A question about Xanatos as portrayed in "Future Tense". This was the last episode in the series where Xanatos was the antagonist (even though it may not count as such, given that it turned out that it wasn't really Xanatos). And what recently struck me about it was that here Xanatos, for once, was acting in a manner more like a conventional cliched cartoon villain than he did anywhere else in the series. He took over Manhattan by force, enslaved the population and plunged them into poverty and misery, had the city patrolled by Mutate soldiers on the ground and Steel Clan robots in the air, murdered his own son without even an ounce of pity or remorse, and was plotting to seize control over the entire planet. All very evocative of the stereotypical super-villain that one would expect to find in a more conventional animated series.
Also, in this episode, Goliath did (momentarily) "destroy" Xanatos (or the Xanatos Program masquerading as him) in the cyberspace battle (just before it turned out that it was really Lexington operating the Xanatos Program behind the scenes), in what could count as their final battle.
So, was "Future Tense" designed, in part, to trick the audience into thinking that "Gargoyles" was going to end with a more conventional showdown between Goliath and Xanatos, a more stereotypical "final battle", before going on to reveal, almost immediately afterwards (given that "The Gathering" was the story that came immediately after "Future Tense"), the real manner in which the Goliath/Xanatos conflict came to an end (through the two making peace after the gargs helped Xanatos against Oberon)? A kind of "tricking the audience raised on more conventional adventure cartoon series" method similar to that used in "Leader of the Pack" (where it initially seems as if Xanatos is out for revenge, but it turns out that it wasn't the real Xanatos and that the real one had very different and much more practical goals)?
Greg responds...
Yep. I mean that wasn't the only thing going on, but we did so love to play with and against expectations.
But it's also fun, even if it's a fantasy within our fantasy, to see such opposites go at it to the death. I knew that wasn't they're true destiny, so it was nice to slip a version of it in.
Todd Jensen writes...
In "Monsters", was Sevarius working for Xanatos or himself when he was at Loch Ness? He had the Xanatos Goon Squad along with him to help him out, but nothing that he said really confirmed that he was working for Xanatos; he appeared to be after the Loch Ness Monsters more to satisfy his own personal interest in genetic tinkering than from any interests that Xanatos had.
Greg responds...
For Xanatos, though X gave him fairly free reign to keep him happily employed.
Yadira writes...
"Outfoxed"
In this episode, one of the key things we learned is that Fox is pregnant and she breaks the news to her father, Renard. What we don't see is how she breaks the news to her husband. If you had time to explore this, how did Fox tell Xanatos about her delicate condition and what did she feel might be Xanatos' reaction. How did Xanatos truly react at first upon hearing her news.
Greg responds...
He was thrilled. I believe she told him as soon as she got off the phone.
LSZ writes...
Did Mab have parents?
Greg responds...
One way or another.
Anonymous writes...
1) What has Mab been doing all those eons in confinement? Even prisoners must do something with their time. I assume the solitary confinement has worked wonders on her sanity.
Greg responds...
Not saying.
Oberon writes...
Where did you get the name Grimourum Arcanorum
Greg responds...
Michael Reaves came up with that. But I think it's simply Latin for "magic book".
Vic writes...
Hellos,
I'm just wondering if you know anything about the fabled Gargoyles movie project. Last i heard it was mired in development hell. Has it moved up to purgatory or down to something more hopeless, like ohio?
Greg responds...
I hear they have a script they like. But I haven't seen it. I don't know anything else, but hope to have more info for the Gathering.
matt writes...
what are some of the other names of gargoyles on Avalon? i'd imagine most biblical angel names were used, but Opheila, Angela, and Boibekka all have other types of names, what were some of these?, if you know any
Greg responds...
Boudicca, not Boibekka.
I've answered this. I believe that Katharine did attempt at least to use all the standard Angelic names...
Gabriel, Michael, Azrael, Raphael, Uriel, etc.
Plus some variations like Angela.
But they had more gargs than angels.
So we get Ophelia, etc.
Anyway, I don't plan on tying my hand by naming a bunch of characters I haven't yet explored.
Mary Mack writes...
Hello there.
I have a simple, small question regarding garg culture.
What goes into the average gargoyle commitment ceremony?
That's it. You don't have to include any fun geographic-cultural variations of the thing, just outline the basics-- if there are basics. If there are no basics, that'd be good to know too.
And you know what? Even in California it's cold in February. I wish the computer with Net access weren't in the garage-- I'm reezing my fass off out here!
Greg responds...
Sorry, Mary, I hate to make you reeze your fass for nothing, but I'm saving those details for now.
Sapphire writes...
Elisa Maza for a human is extremely beautiful and attractive. Do you think that the New Olympians when they first saw her saw her as a very beautiful organism since some of the New Olympians looked extremly ugly.
Greg responds...
Eye of the beholder, my friend.
Vashkoda writes...
1a) How are the majority of New Olympians educated? Are they forced to have an education? Up to what level (relative to our own system) have most of them been to? (highschool? college? post-grad?) Do they all understand advanced calculus, for example? b) Are any (if not all) NO gargoyles similarly educated?
2a) Is the majority of the NO population educated well enough to understand their island's technology? b) Roughly how many people are in charge of research and development and maintaining this technology? (tens? hundreds? thousands?). c) Would this group include any gargoyles?
3a) While I'm at it, roughly how many people live on NO? (hundreds? thousands? millions?) b) Roughly how many full-blooded NO gargates are there? c) Roughly how many NO are of gargoyle descent?
4) How will the NO clan be discovered by the outside world?
Greg responds...
1a. Forced? In the sense that kids have to go to school? I guess. But they aren't conscribed into education. Most want a good education. Most get it.
1b. Some are, yes.
2a. A good chunk.
2b. I don't know.
2c. Potentially.
3a. The low thousands.
3b. About 100 or so.
3c. Huh?
4. They will reveal themselves in front of the United Nations Building.
Vanity writes...
I have been reading Macbeth and Demona responses and the above mentioned for "High Noon" where questions were asked why Macbeth didn't feel the pain when Elisa and Demona where in combat. And I think people are putting too much emphasis on the fact that Macbeth could prepare for the blows. Couldn't it be that, and if you watch the fight scene; Elisa didn't really "hurt" Demona enough to evoke the spell? Granted Demona ran head-first into a statue but that might not of hurt too much.
Greg responds...
A combination of all of the above -- including that we screwed up a bit.
Aaron writes...
High Noon
<<Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?>>
(raises hand) Aw c'mon Greg, not even human form and frumpy clothing can hide the radiant beauty that is Demona. ;) But seriously, who else has hair like that?
Random observation: When human-form Demona leaves her hair alone, instead of putting it up in that dreadful restrained thing she wears as Domonique Destine, she looks like a red-haired Puma sister. (Dominion Tank Police, in case you didn't get the ref)
Greg responds...
I still don't get the ref.
Anonymous writes...
Just a quick comment. Actually, Demona's"sexpot posing at the clock tower when she confronts Elisa did seem in character to me. I always imagined her smugly suggesting, See, even as a human I'm better looking than you. Her subconscious jealousy of Elisa and Goliath's "connection"
and her "I'm better than you are attitude, contirbute to her flagrantly exhibiting herself." Or in the words of the immortal and unknown, "When you've got it flaunt it." Got to love the Japanese animators on this one.
Greg responds...
Works for me too.
matt writes...
does Demona have to sleep? i figure that when she is human her garg side sleeps and when she is gargoyle her human side sleeps. if this is true where does she get the solar energy from to support her gargoyle form?
Greg responds...
Magic compensates to some degree, but she does sleep as a human periodically.
Todd Jensen writes...
My "High Noon" ramble.
It's hard to be certain what my original thoughts were when seeing this one for the first time (given that that was back in 1995), but I feel pretty certain that I didn't recognize Demona in her human form until the dialogue actually named her. (And given that, as you'd pointed out, up till then, I'd only seen her as a human briefly at the end of "The Mirror", it was easy enough not to recognize her).
I don't recall now what I'd thought of the Demona/Macbeth team-up or where the Weird Sisters were all this time when I first saw the episode, though. Maybe I was just accepting the story as it went along without asking that many questions.
I very much liked Hudson's question about the "hit the sack" idiom, and the bit where Hudson and Broadway were reading the newspaper as the link back to "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Both struck me as very enjoyable touches.
I sometimes wonder if Officer Morgan will ever realize just how helpful he was to Elisa in helping her gain the strength to face Demona at Belvedere Castle. This may very well count as his biggest moment in the series to date.
The revelation at the end that the Sisters were behind it all, and - more importantly - that the real targets were the Grimorum, the Eye of Odin, and the Phoenix Gate definitely surprised me. One thing that I do remember from my first time seeing the episode was this: for some odd reason, I was under the impression that "the coming battle" that the Sisters mentioned was something slated for the end of the season (Episode 65 or close to it), a grand finale conflict of some sort. Well, it was a big battle, but it took place in "Gargoyles" a lot sooner than I was expecting.
(One little thing that I must admit: a good thing for Demona that she was using the Grimorum to shield herself from prying eyes during the day. I don't think that she would have been too appreciative of the way that male humans might have been looking at her in that outfit as a human if they could have seen her :)
Greg responds...
Except I don't think she was shielding THAT. She hailed a cab in that outfit, after all. (Which amuses me to no end. Hey, it's NYC!)
Sapphire writes...
In the episode high noon Elisa was waiting for her gargoyles to return because it is nearly dawn and she was worried for their safety but instead the only gargoyle that came around was Demona, Demona transformed into a human when the sun came up but when downstairs and hailed a cab. My question is was Demona carrying any money with her when she got into the cab or did she just got out when the ride was over and not pay at all?
Greg responds...
She was probably carrying money. Or she made Macbeth pay.
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
I was wondering, how will Demona react when she discover that the Clan - and specially Angela - are back to the castle and living with Xanatos? That they sold themselves?
Greg responds...
Sold themselves? Huh?
One writes...
1) What are your personal feelings regarding Demona? Do you see her as a tragic victim of humanity's fear, the weird sister's machinations, etc? Just a mad gargoyle who can't let go of the past and refuses to accept responsibility for her own actions? What's your take on her?
2) In your opinion, which character of the series is most like you? Why?
3) If you had to go through everything Demona went through... how do you think that would have changed you? What would you be like?
Greg responds...
1. She is complex. She contains multitudes. I'm fond of her in a strange way. But that fondness doesn't mitigate her actions as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand, I've always been fascinated with the idea of redemption. So who knows?
2. None really. Or all of them put together. Or Vinnie, because I'm often hapless. Without hap.
3. A puddle.
matt writes...
was Angela nervous upon meeting the Manhatten Clan? i noticed that she stayed back in the shadows a bit at first. if she was, i can understand why. first of all, she probably felt like a hatchling among them. Avalon was not only where she lived her childhood, but it seems to be a place of eternal childhood, for mortals anyway. even Tom, Katherine, and the Magus said they all lived like children even as they all grew older. and when Goliath came to the island he was the oldest gargoyle (biologically and chronologically) that the Avalon clan had ever seen! than she gets to Manhatten and there's an even older gargoyle, Hudson. then of course, if i was Angela, i would feel very nervous about being raised by humans, even though they did a great job. the Manhatten gargs all hatched in the Wyvern rookery, grew up in the castle raised by gargs and had maintained almost entirely gargoyle-gargoyle relationships with the exception of Elisa, Matt, and some villains. Angela probably felt like, "I wonder if there is some gargoyle custom i'm not aware of.", or, "Am I doing something only humans do?" among her brothers and sisters all this was ok since they were all raised the same. actually out of all the NY gargs i think Angela was probably most intimidated by Hudson, am i right about any of this?
ok, just another ramble from matt...
Greg responds...
I'd say she was a bit nervous, yes.
I don't know if Hudson made her that nervous, specifically. He was very welcoming, and she's fairly self-possessed. But the situation was nerve-wracking, for many of the reasons you describe.
Cassandra writes...
Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?
Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.
Greg responds...
Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.
And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.
recorded on 02-15-01
Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.
I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.
I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.
Greg responds...
And an interesting one. But yes, that Deadly Force moment was to Goliath, a kiss equivalent. Not necessarily a romantic kiss. But a caring one.
Cleo writes...
Do you think Gargoyles will ever come back on the air?and if so will there be more episodes on the Goliath-Elisa relationship? P.S.Gargoyles ROCK!
Greg responds...
Yes, I hope so, and yes, I hope so.
Aaron writes...
I'm probably thinking too human on this, but there is one thing that has always bugged me.
Goliath takes such issue to being Angela's parent, but he was ready to adopt Thailog as his son?
I presume he meant in the rookery father sense, although the language seemed a bit off. Maybe because I'd regard a clone, particularily one who was as physically mature as me, as a brother rather then a son. But again, that's just me.
Greg responds...
Adopt is a strong word. He simply was ready to take responsibility and try to bring him into the fold, in the rookery sense.
Cary Bates agreed with you. Wanted to view Thailog as a brother, not a son. But that didn't match up either with the biology or with Goliath's mindset. At least not in my mind.
Tazz writes...
Hi, Greg, I first wanna say that I think you did a wonderful job with Gargoyles. The plots were wonderful for the whole family--not just kids. It's an educational experience for sure! So thank you for bringing it to life and sharing it with all of us. And my question is this--I looked in the archives, but couldn't find where someone has asked this, so I really hope I looked hard enough, but I was wondering where I could view an the original drafts of Goliath--for example, you said that Mr. Guurr(sp?) had made the basis for Goliath's form. Is there any way to see it? I'm very curious how Goliath originally was drawn, and how he evolved into the person we see now. Thanks so much, Mr. Weismann, and I hope I haven't annoyed you. Thanks! Tazz.
Greg responds...
Not annoyed, but I don't have any of that old development art. Disney has it. Sorry. Maybe if you come to the Gathering in L.A., will try to give it all a holiday from the archives for a bit.
Chapter XXVIII: "Revelations"
Time to Ramble...
Fueled by (what I perceived in my own mind to be) the success of "City of Stone", I began to get more daring in my story structure. In Revelations, Cary and I utilized the time-honored tradition of "in medias res", where a story starts in the middle and catches the viewer up along the way. (Thanks, Homer.)
We also used voice over narration for the first time. It's interesting because Matt just seemed like a perfect character to do that kind of Philip Marlowe naration. But at the same time, it was daring, because of course, Matt is not a regular. The audience didn't know him that well. I think it showed the strength of our supporting cast that Matt could carry a show like this. Of course, having the massively talented Tom Wilson playing Matt helped. I knew he could handle it. And he did. Tom is terrific and VERY funny in the booth. I hope someday he gets his own tv show. (I also loved him as Coach Fredericks on Freaks & Geeks.)
The basic springboard for this episode came from four sources.
1. The notion that eventually Matt would have to find out about the Gargoyles. We didn't want to just throw it away or constantly come up with new excuses why he had "just missed them" or whatever.
2. Matt's pursuit of the Illuminati. What began as a Michael Reaves throwaway line in "The Edge" had evolved into its own subplot. Cary's "Silver Falcon" had taken us to the next level of hearsay. It was time to finally bring the Society into the series.
3. Disney's desire to do a cross-over event with their new "TOWER OF TERROR" ride down in Orlando. Unfortunately, they had wanted this much earlier -- in 1994. We had piggy-backed our World Premiere Screening of Gargoyles down in Florida in September of 1994 with the press event for the Tower's Grand Opening. (That's how Keith David, Marina Sirtis, Salli Richardson, Gary Krisel and I wound up riding the Tower of Terror together on the night before it opened to the general public.) But this was the soonest we could fit the notion into our continuity. You'll see in the memo that I just posted previous to this ramble, that when we were at the outline stage, I was still trying to more firmly tie the two properties together. Partway through the script process, someone at Disney changed their mind. They didn't want the tie-in anymore. I shrugged, I think. And the HOLLYWOOD TOWER became the HOTEL CABAL.
4. An episode of the British TV series, THE AVENGERS, called something like "The House That Jack Built". This was a classic that we ripped off shamelessly. (Wait, wait, I mean we paid it homage shamelessly.) It was about this nutty house designed, I believe, to trap spies inside and drive them bonkers and break them. Sound familiar? John Steed and Emma Peel redone as Goliath and Matt. Didn't you notice the resemblance?
(Gee, so far I've credited Raymond Chandler, Homer and THE AVENGERS as influences. What a fun episode.)
We reintroduced Hacker, mostly so that we could bookend him at the end as Matt's new Illuminati contact. This was something that Cary and I planned as far back as Silver Falcon. We always had to keep Hacker's agenda straight. Make sure any info he gave Matt was a wild goose chase, at least as far as Hacker knew.
In this episode, and only in this episode, Maria Chavez is played by the talented Elisa Gabrielli (also known as Obsidiana). Rachel Ticotin, our usual Chavez, was just unavailable. So Elisa filled in. She has a lighter sound. But I think it works. Did anyone notice? Both Elisa and Rachel are great. I used Elisa as the Doll Demon in 3x3 Eyes (now available on VHS and DVD).
My 3 year old son Ben, who at this point is used to me writing down what he and his older sister says during these viewings told me to write down the following: "When it's night, Demona's a gargoyle. When it's day, she's a human. He likes it when Demona's a human." This had absolutely nothing to do with this episode, but hey, who cares?
I really loved what Ed Asner did with the throwaway character of Jack Dane. "Tell him he's a bum." Dane was so much fun, I brought him back for TURF later.
CONTINUITY
Matt climbs into the clock tower and finds the TV he helped Elisa with on the day they met. That was fun. This whole episode ties back to Matt's Illuminati musings in "The Edge". It was nice to find another connection. Also, Elisa's been lying to him as long as they've known each other. Nice to remind the audience of that as well.
I like the "family of gorillas" line.
"The Dental Plan" line is vintage Cary Bates.
Elisa: "Matt, you haven't said three words all night..."
Matt: "Let me drive." HEY! THREE WORDS! :) This is fun because, I always thought of Elisa as someone who was such a control freak, she never let her partner drive her car. A big part of this episode, though it could easily sneak past you what with everything else going on, is revealing more facets of Elisa's personality. We learn much more about her and she grows here too.
It's fun to establish Xanatos as "a lower eschelon member". Immediately makes the Illuminati impressive, if Xanatos barely registers on their scale. Also sets up eventual conflicts with him.
First act cliffhanger: Here the threat is Matt. Again, how well did you all think you knew Matt? Here we're inside his point of view -- his narration. But we still try to play him edgy enough that we don't know if he'll kill them both. It helps that we opened with the shocker that he betrayed Goliath to Mace. How many people bought that? Thought Matt was the Judas that Mace said he was?
Anyway, I really like this scene. Elisa yelling at Matt. Matt getting out of the car and yelling at... no one. And Elisa's quiet revelation that Matt isn't crazy... "They don't follow me everywhere." Again, this line was as important for Elisa as for Matt. Sure she can count on the Gargoyles for help. But I never wanted it to seem like Lois and Superman. Like he was always around or would here her with super-senses everytime she screamed. Most of the time, Elisa's on her own.
"This time I'll drive."
Fun to see the gargoyles reactions when Matt is introduced. Goliath's not upset. He appreciates that Elisa has a loyal partner and probably gave her permission to bring Matt in from the cold long before. The truth is they know Matt already.
Elisa: "better late than never".
And then immediately Goliath is suspicious. "Trust is not... to be bartered."
As creators, we were playing both ends here. Omitting pieces of conversation. Trying to get the audience to believe that Matt might in fact be betraying G. But also making it believable that in hindsight, he wasn't. Not cheating, in other words.
At this point, my six year old daughter Erin said: "I don't like Bluestone in this one. He's usually very nice. But in this one he's mean." That's how she saw him. Not righteously angry with Elisa for the lies. Just mean.
It took remarkably more effort than I'd have expected to get things to hook up with our Teaser from the beginning of the act. To help, I reused a couple of Mace's line as prompts to the audience.
It's fun to hear Tom Wilson playing Matt playing at being a bad guy.
I like all the hotel references. "Check out time" etc.
Mace falls down the shaft and grabs the cables with his bare hands. One hundred years old or not, that's gotta hoit.
I like Matt using his coat as a parachute. That wouldn't be necessary except for that darn Gallileo. If it weren't for him, Goliath, being heavier, could have fallen faster than Matt to catch up to him. :)
And of course, I enjoy the irony of Mace being trapped in a Hell of his own making. And i like the notion that the Illuminati just left him there to rot. He had outlived his usefulness. A non-member had found him thanks to his annoying sentimental habit of visiting Pine Lawn. AND he had failed to hold the Gargoyle in the Cabal. Breaking a perfect record. Woops.
Goliath refers to Bluestone as his friend. That's to make sure the audience is clear that Goliath was in on the plan from the beginning. Later, I gathered, some people still didn't get that.
We have a great Turning to Stone sequence here. Every once in a while it's nice to remind the audience that this is unique and special. Seeing it through a new characrer's eyes is a great way to do that.
I love Elisa and Matt's conversation. Elisa reveals that she's subconsciously been keeping the gargs to herself because it made her feel special. Explains a lot about "Her Brother's Keeper", doesn't it? And Matt admits to something similar. I think we all do little things to help ourselves stand out, even if no one notices them but us.
Maria then helps us see that Matt and Elisa are going to be okay.
And finally, our Hacker tag. (This episode had like six tags.) Matt gets his pin. I thought that was kinda cool...
What say all of you....
Back to the pilot...
On July 6th, 1993, Writer Eric Luke turned in an outline for the pilot. It still had the Pack, and introduced the concept of the Gargoyle Eggs. Here were our notes on that outline, as we sent him to script.
To: Eric Luke Date: 7-15-93
From: Greg Weisman Ext.: (818)-754-7436
Subject: Notes on 7/6 Gargoyle Outline
Ta Da!! Let's go to script....with notes...sorry. Actually, we're real happy with the outline, we just want to send you forward with a few things in mind.
One general note comes from Gary, who's pretty much decided that the Gargoyles cannot fly like birds, but rather can glide like flying squirrels. We're going to take a lot of liberties with this. Play a lot with updrafts and downdrafts, i.e. cheat a lot, but the big basic no-no is the idea that they can start at ground level and just muscle themselves into the air with their wings. Gary doesn't want to just make this a rule, he wants to make use of it in the script as a vulnerability for the gargoyles. For example, if Goliath and Elisa are surrounded by the Pack, he can't just pick her up and fly away. He's trapped, unless he can get some height to get some air. Another thought comes earlier when Goliath saves Elisa's life at their first meeting. Maybe he grabs her in mid-air and then arcs up to re-land on the castle ramparts. And maybe he can't quite make it to the top and has to grab hold of the building and use his talons to claw his way back up to the landing, with her holding on to him for dear life. (These are just examples that occur to me...use, embellish, come up with your own as it fits the script.) Anyway, you get the idea.
PAGE 1
I think we can heighten the drama of the opening by referring to the original beat outline depicting Robby and his Mom desperately running up the hill to the castle w/the Marauders close behind. It's sunset. Cole and crew don't have long to wait for it to get too dark for the archers to target them.
PAGE 2
Re: the Wizard. The scariest thing about Goliath's looks is his tremendous threatening bulk, claws and teeth. His non-human appearance, wings and skin color play into the wizard's fears as well. But it's the potential physical threat that's the most frightening. I'm not sure that this will specifically come out in dialogue, but...
Teen 'goyles should probably be doing minor mischief until Robby's mother refers to them as monsters. This pisses them off (particularly Brooklyn) and they decide that if they're gonna be treated like Monsters they might as well act like monsters, and perhaps they do something that is flat-out malicious. Goliath comes in while they're "acting like monsters", doesn't know why and banishes them from the courtyard. They feel bigtime jipped.
Eggs in the rookery really intrigues us. It raises HUGE questions. Do Gargoyles lay eggs? What do they look like? Gary pictures rough spheres like cannonballs made of stone. Do the eggs survive Cole? I guess they must since Bronx and the trio do. Do they survive the centuries? What's the gestation period of a gargoyle egg? Did Demona gather up the eggs? Were they effected by the wizard's spell? When Xavier moves the castle to Manhattan, is the Rookery, eggs and all, left in tact in Scotland? None of these questions need to be answered in the pilot. It's just a great seed to plant for future episodes, so don't make too big a deal of it here; we want careful viewers to be curious, but most to be unconcerned, since they won't get the answers to these questions in this movie.
Was Broadway raised in the Rookery? Or has it been out of use for decades? If he was, we need to be careful that our trio aren't telling each other things that they all already know.
PAGE 3
Again, in the final battle against the Captain, Cole and his marauders, refer to the original beat outline for choreography. We need Cole and the Captain to drag the queen away from the battlefield, luring Goliath away too, alone. We need the Wizard left alone, believing the Queen is dead, w/only one remaining spellbook to confront the rest of the 'goyles and turn them to stone, etc.
PAGE 5
Perhaps when the Pack first attacks, Goliath and company jump to defend the castle without any request from Xavier. It's that instinctive. Afterwards, (p.6), Xavier asks for their continued protection, and Goliath agrees, largely because at this point, he's already got one foot in the water, so-to-speak.
PAGE 8
We still have the three night structure, but we've lost Elisa asking Goliath to give her three nights to show him all that her world has to offer. That always struck me as a nice moment. Was there a reason we took it out? I'm not saying we need it back in, I'm just curious.
PAGE 9
Adrienne Bello is our executive here in charge of Standards and Practices. We showed the final version of the outline to her, and she had a concern here regarding our depiction of latchkey kids. Basically, it's a weighty issue, and we really don't have the space to do it justice here. That gave me a thought. Another (easily-solved) problem in the scene is that Goliath doesn't seem to be a participant. No one reacts to him. If we change that, we can see a number of kids (maybe out on the stoop, early evening) reacting differently to him. All should be scared at first, but some are quickly reassured and think Goliath (and Bronx) are way cool. Littler kids might still be frightened, and Goliath sees Elisa comfort and reassure them. Teaching them not to be prejudiced, in essence. Or something. We don't have to make them latchkey kids. Taggers? Just neighborhood kids w/no crime involved? Maybe we create a 20th century counterpart to Robby? Anyway, give it some thought.
PAGE 10
This could play into the attack by the Pack. Perhaps our Robby-counterpart witnesses it. And the noise brings more people. They root for the Pack to win out over the "Monster" Goliath. They think the Pack is saving them. Our "Robby-counterpart" could really be confused as to who's good and who's bad. Maybe the crowd helps the Pack? (The right thing to do, as they perceive it, but unfortunately, they've picked the wrong side to help.) Elisa may try to flash her badge, and is knocked aside/out before she can identify herself as a cop. What Fox says to Goliath in the clinches, doesn't have to be heard by the crowd. Maybe the Pack even pretends to try to rescue Elisa from Goliath, making it clear to Goliath and our audience, though not the crowd, that if they get her away from him (and Bronx) she's doomed. [Again, though Bronx is largely a comic relief character, he can be helpful in a fight. Just as Goliath--though basically a dramatic character--has a sense of humor, and can be used in lighter, comic situations.] Goliath has little choice but to retreat with Elisa, with the crowd thinking he's the villain getting away w/a victim (or perhaps accomplice). Then he expresses his frustration that humans could so confuse the heroes and villains, based solely on appearances. If Elisa's conscious at this point, she might try to argue with him.
It's unclear why Goliath thinks the Pack is bent on revenge. What does he think they have to revenge? So far, they've been basically successful in both encounters. At worst, you could say they've fought to a draw.
PAGE 11
If Xavier spotted Demona in a book, it was probably an art book, not a history book. Gargoyles didn't make the history books. I know this is just a story Xavier tells Goliath, but we might as well make it as realistic as possible.
Also Demona does not "seem" to be "genuinely pleased" to see the gargoyles; she IS genuinely pleased to see them.
PAGE 12
Xavier should claim that the disks will benefit all mankind AND ALL GARGOYLES as well.
Xavier should make his contingency plans w/Owen. That way, we don't have to have him talking to himself, or reveal that he and Demona are in cahoots.
Goliath should probably find Elisa at her place, (maybe he followed her from the police station). As opposed to just happening to spot her on the streets.
Also want to make sure I have all the corporate names straight. XAVIER ENTERPRISES (XE) is Xavier's big conglomerate. SCARAB CORP. is the robotic and cybernetic arm of XE. PACK INC. is the "marketing firm" that handles the Pack, which is owned by a company, which up the ladder is eventually owned by XE. CYBERCORP is Xavier's basically honest competitor and the creators of the anti-grav technology that's on the disks.
PAGE 13
The idea of Goliath just sitting on the disks for a night in a warehouse still strikes us as artificial. Maybe Xavier asks Goliath to deliver the disks to someone, at the warehouse or wherever, and then arranges for Elisa to be there.
Angelica/Demona's statement about "If you'd only taken the others away..." isn't enough of a tip-off to make Goliath suspicious. It doesn't sound like she knows something, it sounds like she's using 20-20 hindsight to make him feel bad. At any rate, that would be the natural thing for him to think. Maybe it begins with this, but she takes it a step farther, and that tips Goliath off.
In her explanation of what went wrong, we need to include the notion that the Captain promised her he'd protect the gargoyles, but at the last minute she panicked and left.
We're also unclear how all this has led her to join up with Xavier. Maybe she sees the destruction of humanity in his evil, and she's anxious to help. Or maybe he plans on conquering humanity, and then she plans to take the reins of power from him. Lots of possibilities; we just need to clarify.
PAGE 14
Did Xavier send anyone besides Demona (and Elisa) to the "loyalty test". Maybe Owen has been watching from the shadows.
The reason Xavier didn't take Goliath out immediately after the loyalty test can probably be tied to Xavier's intelligence. He knows that the best time to attack the Gargoyle's is during the day, when they're frozen. I think we should make use of this. Have a scene where the Pack (carrying sledgehammers) searches for the Gargoyles in daylight. Elisa hides the gargoyles and/or protects them, and/or lures the Pack away from their location at great personal risk. Now she and Goliath have saved each other. A human he can count on. Etc. At this point, Xavier doesn't want to leave the loose ends untied for too long. He's confident in his new robot creations. (Perhaps there's one that's specifically been modeled after Goliath.) He decides to just get the battle over with. Or maybe it's Goliath and the gargoyles who decides to take the castle back, (with Elisa's help). They attack Xavier. Demona, the steel gargoyles AND the Pack (and Xavier, for that matter) are there to defend the castle. That's kinda ironic and cool.
And that's it. Give me a call if you have any questions. I'd also like to get an approximate target date when you think we'd have the first draft screenplay. Despite all the notes, we're getting really psyched. Good luck.
cc: Gary Krisel, Bruce Cranston, Paul Lacy
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
Illuminati questions:
1-You once said that they regard Demona as a loose cannon. How they know her _so_ well?
2a-When Percival/Duval born?
2b-How old he looks?
2c-Is he _always_ at Castle Carbonek?
3-The Illuminati was created in 642. Arthur 'died' in 542. This mean something?
4-Are you pushing to make them the main villains of Gargs? They will be villains in near all the spin-offs. And in 2198, they literally _sold_ the mankind to the space-spawn.
5a-The 'Norman Ambassador' being a Illuminatus and the escort of Elena - coincidence?
5b-If _a_ is 'no', then _why_ should the Illuminati create trouble to Wyvern? You hinted this.
Greg responds...
1. Experience.
2a. I don't have an exact date for that at this time. Sixth Century, however.
2b. Not saying.
2c. Not saying.
3. Yes.
4. It depends what you mean by "main". I certainly want them to be ubiquitous. And I want them to have a bit more presence than they had in the first 65 episodes. But there a background force largely.
5a. I'm not sure what you mean. That's like asking if it's a coincidence that my first name is Greg and my last name is Weisman...
5b. Huh?
Ducks in a row...
Disney's Japanese Studio was collectively the true unsung heroes of the first season of Gargoyles. This is a memo from Mr. Tokunaga, who was the head of that studio. It mentions the Little Mermaid episode that they were currently animating, but is mostly about recommending certain individuals on their staff to be creative forces for the Gargoyles series.
CC: B. FERRO
L. HUME
FAX CONTROL
#ODU-2688
FACSIMILE(0422-51-8229)
DATE: July 10,1993
TO: Ms. Lenora Hume
FROM: Motoyoshi Tokunaga cc. Shin Matsumoto/Sheri Shimada
RE: Gargoyles
Dear Lenora,
Yesterday, I have asked several animators to try on rough designs for this projects characters. We will need one week to finish this work. Therefore. we will be able to tax you these drawings on 7/17. Also, we have sent you the followings together with Take-l's workprint for the Mermaid show #015.
1) Storyboards
*Gadget - storyboarded by Saburo Hashimoto.
*Reporter Blues - storyboarded by Kazuo Terada.
*Soccer Boy - storyboarded by Kazuo Terada.
As a reminder, in Japan we set the maximum number of cels that the show can spend before we start the production. And directors should draw storyboards within this limitation. Since these storyboards were drawn under these circumstances, I fear they might not give you the insight into the artists' creative aspects.
2) Videos
*Ulysis 31: This was produced 12 years ago and directed by Terada.
I hope you could use this as a reference of how he divided the scenes and
the camera angles. But, please do not refer to the animation.
*Batman; which was animation directed by Kazuyoshi Takeuohi.
We have sent this to you because we would like to know if you are thinking of any certain level of animation quality and timing. Please let us know if this is the kind of animation you expect from us for Gargoyles series.
Beat regards,
Motoyoshi Tokunaga
MT/my
Sapphire writes...
Gargoyles 2198
74: honorable
Greg responds...
nope
Sapphire writes...
Gargoyles 2198
519: mechanisms
Greg responds...
nope.
Tom writes...
Why in genisis undone wasn't Elisa there?
I mean surely Delilah would have needed some of her D.N.A. to stay alive. Or wasn't she there because she hasn't met Delilah yet and you were trying to keep it to a one episode show?
Greg responds...
I had nothing to do with that episode of Goliath Chronicles. I have no idea.
Todd Jensen writes...
A little thought I've had for some time, inspired by the occasional protests from this "Gargoyles" fan or that who wanted to see Angela pair up with Brooklyn rather than with Broadway. I've never had any problem with Angela choosing Broadway, and actually think that it works very nicely (not to mention that I don't think that Brooklyn would really have been all that happy with Angela - for one thing, there's the way that he feels about her mother). But there is one thing about this business that has amused me.
Although I've seen a number of protests about Brooklyn not becoming Angela's mate, I haven't seen one case of a "Gargoyles" fan, to date, who wanted Lexington to become Angela's mate. Looks as though Lex doesn't have that much of a fan club :)
Greg responds...
Don't tell that to Lexy! Or Thom Adcox for that matter!
Aris Katsaris writes...
Justin> You seem to think that "fat" and "obese" are one and the same. They are *not*. Trust me on this, Broadway isn't obese, not by any definition of the word...
Greg responds...
Thank you.
Jim R. writes...
Greg,
Not to be rude, but I read some of your rambles about stuff. What are they SUPPOSED to MEAN?! I can't make heads or tails as to what you're talking about or where you're going with these alternative outcomes...Whatever you're rambling about, trust me, you're beginning to make me think of parallel outcomes for everything I saw in Gargoyles which is MORE like something I'd watch on Star Trek. Now, don't scare me. (And you said you tried to avoid such unstrict storylines which Star Trek producers are famous for.)
Greg responds...
Huh?
I don't know what you are talking about.
Are you talking about my rambles on individual episodes?
Can you give me an example? What alternative outcomes?
Honestly, this post stumps me.
Aris Katsaris writes...
3. The similarities between Xanatos and Sisyphus: a Theseus/Gawain-Rory/Cuchullain situation, a descendant (Xanatos comes from Greece after all), or simply the coincidental repetition of an archetype?
(I don't think the above are story ideas, but I'll understand if Todd decides to cut them away...)
Greg responds...
I did think of Xanatos as an archetypal character -- a human trickster (as opposed to a Trickster-God like Anansi or Loki). As noted in the previous post, my lack of casual familiarity with the Sis-Myth prevented him from being a specific influence. But Odysseus was in my head. "Xavier" was designed to look like the classic hero of myth. (In contrast to the monstrous 'goyles.) When I changed the name, the Greek association brought Odysseus to mind.
Odysseus is a tricky fellow, who'll use nearly any means to justify his end. He's pragmatic but also curious. (See how he deals with the Sirens.) Immortality appeals to him. But family is ultimately more important. He's also smart as hell. Handsome, strong. A fierce warrior who uses force as a last resort. Sounds fairly Xanatosian to me. What do you think?
Jon writes...
Favorite smart-ass remark:
Faieq writes...
In the Gargoyles Universe, how much truth is there in fortune cookies?
Greg responds...
All cookies are true. Especially Peanut Butter cookies.
(Personally, I've known a few disingenuous peanut butter cookies in my time, so I'm not sure I can back you on this one, Greg)
Good luck regaining your edge!
Greg responds...
Yeah, a few of you have picked that. It's one of my favorites too.
Siren writes...
Seeing as you had a little cryptzoology in your show, such as Nessie. Did you consider other cryptids like Mokele-mbembe (Brachiasaurs in Africa), Bigfoot, Big Cats of United Kingdom, Chupacabras, etc.
Greg responds...
All things are true...
Sapphire writes...
The majority of the world's people believe in a creator, from the Semetic peoples of the middle east to the indigious
peoples of the Americas. I was wondering in the gargoyles universe is the god that the Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship a fay or is he truely the god of the universe?
Greg responds...
God. The one true God of the Universe is not, in my mind, a fey. On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm going to equate him with the God of Abrahamic trio of religions either. I'm looking for something bigger still. Something that includes but is not limited by those faiths.
Just my opinion, mind you.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Next ramble - Xanatos and Gilgamesh:
As I said my first thought was Gilgamesh, since he also had the wish to find immortality - yet above all because Gilgamesh is the mythological hero whose mortality is an integral part of him: the same thing that you said about Xanatos... Both have had dealings with immortals, yet both are hopelessly mortal...
Other than that, admittedly they don't seem to have any other point of similarity... Perhaps (though a bit far-fetched) that Gilgamesh also starts like a bit of a villain until he discovers friendship. But comparisons between Enkidu and Goliath seem even more farfetched and I decided to stop that train of thought.
The Gilgamesh story is among my very favourite ones... And I love characters such as Utnapishtim (the survivor of the Great Flood - the gods turned him and his wife immortal). In fact I find Utnapishtim's version of the story far more fascinating than that of Noah or Deucalion - two stories which for me are so sketchy as to be really *dull*.
Anyway...
1. Do you have any plans about Gilgamesh or Utnapishtim which are more specific than "Eventually everything?"
2. Since Utnapishtim was turned immortal - do you think he's still around? :-)
Greg responds...
Sure Noah wound up a boring drunk. And Deucalion was a bit of a stiff. But wouldn't you like to see Utnapishtim, Noah and Deucalion all sitting at one of these new post-Flood coffee houses, having a beer together, reminiscing about old times? How singers could really sing pre-Flood and how the smell nearly killed them on those damn arcs?
1. Gilgamesh, Enkidu and Utnapishtim (as well as Noah and Deucalion) all figured into my plans. Vaguely. That is, I have a few ideas for all of these characters. But they have not as yet fully coalesced in the old (and getting older) brain. But I will say that Jeff Robbins is involved with my Gilgamesh notions. (FYI - I never really made a Gil-Xanatos connection.)
2. Duh. :)
Mel. Celestial writes...
Since you don't have the characters' specific age with you now, care to arrange them according from Hudson(he's the oldest, no?)to baby Alex? A-Z? Thanks!
Greg responds...
I'm at MY office today, so I do have some access. My timeline isn't yet fully REWORKED, so all of the following is tentative. But as of 12-31-95, here are the ages of many of our cast:
King Arthur 1510 (57).
Hudson 1117 (59).
Demona 1057 (35).
Goliath 1057 (29).
Coldstone 1057 (28).
Trio 1037 (19).
Magus dead at 1029 (71)
Katharine 1019 (61).
Bronx 1017 (9).
Tom 1009 (54).
Macbeth 990 (52).
Ang, Gab, Oph, Boud 917 (19).
Fiona 107.
Mace Malone dead at 100.
Leo, Una, Kai 97 (49).
Dominic 93.
Zaf, Obsid 77 (39).
Dane 76.
Jade, Turq, Yama 57 (29).
Peter 53.
Diane 49.
Xanatos 40.
Sora 37 (19).
Jason, Matt 31.
Fox, Robyn 29.
Elisa 27.
Talon, Dracon 25.
Jon 23.
Beth 20.
Thailog 1 (29).
Note, the numbers in parentheses represent biological age when it differs from their actual chronological age.
Alex was not yet born at that time. My current thinking pegs his birthdate as 7-9-96, a Tuesday.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
What language is the Grimorum written in? I imagine the spells are in Latin, but what language did the Magus use to recount the story of the gargoyles?
Greg responds...
Most (but not all) of the Grimorum is in Latin. The Magus used Latin as well, which was in those days the language of scholars.
Jim R. writes...
matt,
I thought the skiff was blown up at first, but i remembered that only happened in the "Future Tense" episode, which I suppose wasn't real to Goliath. But no one could accidently go to Avalon, because one would first have to recite the Latin to reach it. I got you on this one buddy. :)
Greg responds...
Yup.
Entity writes...
Hi Greg,
Thanks for giving my comments about AWAKENING (the portrayel of the Trio and the cut prologue) a fair explanation. (I'm glad to hear that you would've preferred the prologue, too -- maybe I just wanted to know it wasn't cut for quality reasons.)
I understand the usage of the Next Time and Last Time segments better now, too. Though I have to ask: Is the quantity of bad animation you got back on GARGOYLES typical of an animated show?
Greg responds...
No. Actually, on the whole, I'd say Gargoyles got much BETTER animation than the average tv show. For starters, many of our episodes were done by Walt Disney TV Animation Japan. Those guys kicked ass.
And we also did very well by our Korean sub-contractors. Not every time. But often enough that I don't want to complain. Well, to be honest, there were always things to complain about. From every studio. That's the nature of tv production. But we got pretty lucky over all.
matt writes...
in "The Gathering" when Goliath and co. arrived in New York what happened to the Avalon Skiff? did it sink as Arthur's skiff had done in London? if the just left the skiff in the lake or river could anyone have gotten in it and accidently gone to Avalon?
Greg responds...
It sank. But even if it hadn't, you need to know the incantation to get to Avalon.
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