Vaevictis Asmadi writes...

I read "All You Zombies" by Heinlein a while ago, based on your recommendation that it demonstrated working paradoxes in time travel, and although it was not recent I decided to finally type up and share what I thought from reading it. First of all, the story creeped me out!

But what I'm writing to you about is free will. Did the main character of that story have free will? On the surface at least, it appears to me that he did not for much of the story. He clearly remembered everything that had happened to him, yet he did not have to option not to seduce himself, or not to catch take past self back in the time machine, nor could he choose to change what he said and did in that bar when he was the bartender. When interacting with his past self, I think he had no choice but to say and do exactly what he remembered seeing his future self doing and hearing his future self saying.

He did have options regarding abducting the baby, mainly because he didn't remember being abducted, but one way or another he had to abduct that baby or get someone else to abduct her: he only had options in how he did it. This is comparable to Goliath time-travelling with Griff in M.I.A. Goliath could not possibly get Griff back to his clan in the 1940s, but he had plenty of options of what he could do instead. In that situation Goliath had far more options than the character in "All You Zombies" had when abducting the baby, but still this is a situation with free will.

But what options does a character really have when meeting their past self, if they DO remember the entire encounter? This is apparently what happened to Demona in Vows. She remembered Goliath's "little speech" (or maybe she was lying to him or to herself, but let's assume she was telling the truth this time) and so she must have remembered what her future self said and did. Does that mean she had no free will to change the encounter with her past self when she went back in time? For example, did she really have free will to change what words she said, or not to kick Goliath? It appears to me that this is a situation where she didn't have free will. When the Archmage(+) told his past self that the future is a place of science, not superstition, and that Demona and Macbeth were only "cannon fodder" he couldn't even have understood what he was saying, let alone invented it himself. In fact his entire bizarre mini-timedance seems to abrogate his free will, because as he said "I should (know what to do), I watched you do it."

Demona's PAST self certainly had free will in Vows, since she did not yet remember the encounter. Likewise, the Archmage clearly had free will during his first pass through his time loop. I would think that any time a character is in a stable time loop, they have free will as long as they are unaware of what "already happened." But when they do remember what happened because their past self is there at the scene, they don't have the option to change what already happened. They already KNOW what happened. If they already know what words they spoke to their past self, then those words are something they remember, not something they are thinking up freely, and they don’t have the option of saying anything different from what they remember.

Am I missing something?

Charisma82 writes...

In High Noon, what would Demona and Macbeth have done if Iago hadn’t been the personality to take control over Coldstone? What was their plan if Desdemona or Othello had taken over?

Thank you for your time and all that you do,

-Charisma82

Greg Bishansky writes...

This discussion has been had in Station Eight a few times, and I thought I would bring it up here. It seems to me like one could make a case that Demona is the lead character in the greater story of the GARGOYLES UNIVERSE.

If one looks at "Dark Ages," "Gargoyles," and "Gargoyles 2198" as a three act story, Demona's story is the one story arc that really plays out through the entire timeline. She is there for all three acts.

Yes, Goliath is the lead in "Gargoyles" and Samson is the lead in "Gargoyles 2198." I think Hudson is the lead in "Dark Ages," but I might be wrong. And they all play huge roles, crucial roles. But Goliath and Hudson are not in Act Three, and Samson is not in the first two acts.

Demona, without being the lead in any of the acts, is the constant presence. Sure, she may not appear in "Pendragon," "New Olympians," Heroes of Ulster," and may only have a small role in "TimeDancer" and "Bad Guys." But if "Gargoyles" is the center of the universe here, and "Dark Ages" and "2198" are both acts in that story, it almost makes me wonder if this is really her story. You've got her youth, her fall from grace, her time as the main antagonist (or one of them), and then her eventual redemption.

Not to take anything away from Goliath, because I definitely agree that "Gargoyles" is his story and that he is the most pivotal character in that series. But is his story a large piece of her story?

I'm not saying it's all about her, because it's not. I don't think that or feel that, because this is all one huge ensemble piece made up of many stories, but like I said, she seems to be the most constant character out of all of them in the Big Picture. And all without ever being THE LEAD in any of the "three acts."

Chris writes...

Would Demona and Macbeth still blame each other if they knew how the Weird Sisters had manipulated them, or would they assume that the Sisters were responsible for their betrayals?

Chris writes...

When Demona thought that Macbeth was going to betray her, why didn't she just take her clan and abandon him (or, if she really wanted to make sure he would fall, sabotage Castle Moray's defenses like with what happened to Wyvern)? Why would she work with Canmore, who she hated?

Loralee Dawson writes...

Hello. I was just wondering if Demona & Broadway were related? And I do not mean though Hudson. They are both the most human looking (besides Goliath & Hudson) their wing talons are the same, neither have horns, or weird face. Also their coulouring is very close. In some episode, even the same colour. I just thought they might be cousins.

Anonymous writes...

If Demona got pregnant in her human form could she still turn back into a gargoyle?

I miss the Blue Mug a Guests writes...

At the Gathering in Chicago, during the Blue Mug a Guest, you and Keith David were asked if Goliath and Demona had sex during Awakening 4. After the scene where they reunited in the Great Hall it fades to black. Then we see them on the turret with the rest of the gargoyles.

When you both got asked at the Gathering about this, Keith said something like "what couple in their right mind would meet again after a thousand years and go see the kids first?"

I don't remember if you answered. So, did they?

Curious writes...

Are there any gargoyles out there that would be inclined to agree with Demona's ambitions to destroy humanity? I find it hard to believe she's the only gargoyle in the world with a deep hatred for humans.

Richard Jackson writes...

Has Demona ever noticed that despite her quest for gargoyle supremacy that she's not even really a gargoyle anymore? She turns to human during the day and she's immortal. In the Gargoyles Universe, gargoyles are not inherently magical beings, but by this point Demona, I really believe Demona is a magical being.

Richard Jackson writes...

In "Temptation", Demona gives Brooklyn a tour of New York to show him how she views humanity. She and Brooklyn witness a purse snatching, a married couple fighting, and a murder scene. I can allow that at night and in a big city like New York, it would probably be easy to find crimes being committed or the aftermath.

what I always found a little suspicious is how Demona knew which house to go for the fighting married couple. And they are fighting (the wife even throws a vase at her husband) the exact moment Brooklyn looks in the window. Was there more to the married couple than meets the eye or does Demona just have a nose for troubled homes?

Greg Bishansky writes...

This is something I've been pondering for a while. In spite of her hatred for humans, Demona is willing to ally herself with humans when she sees an advantage in it.

She allied with Macbeth (I like to think she thought of him as a friend, even if she wouldn't admit it). She allied herself with Canmore. She allied with Xanatos. Even in the non-canon Radio Play, she allied herself with Tombstone.

Actually, to be honest, of my many problems with the TGC episode "Generations," her allying with the Quarrymen was not one of them (her alliance with Canmore, a Hunter, showed precedent). I was more bothered by Castaway and the Quarrymen allying with her. The former because, well, the demon killed his father. The latter because, it removes the frightened citizens aspect and just makes them designated bad guys.

Has she allied herself with any humans between Canmore in 1057, and her alliance with Xanatos in the late twentieth century?

Anonymous writes...

If Xanatos's archetype is the trickster, and Thailog's is the bastard, what is Demona's archetype?

Greg Bishansky writes...

Referencing back to this question.

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=12342

Well, I definitely didn't think that Demona literally told Thailog every detail of her life and every scheme she has in the works, she definitely had Operation Clean Slate in the works, and Sevarius working on the CV-1000 as a side project while she and Thailog were together.

But was Thailog aware of this particular plan?

Greg Bishansky writes...

You once said that the reason Demona hasn't been back to Nightstone Unlimited since "Hunter's Moon" is because she is lying low, paranoid that "Dominique Destine" has been outed. Robyn Canmore found out, turned out to be a Hunter, and was then taken into custody.

But, and this is something else I was wondering recently. Would Demona have any real interest or even desire to run a corporation? That seems to be Thailog's M.O., considering who educated him.

Demona doesn't seem to me like she would have the patience to deal with all the paperwork, and other responsibilities of a CEO. Not to mention it seems doubtful that she has any business training. I'm assuming Thailog gave her a crash course when they both established the company.

I guess what I am asking is, did Demona have any interest in Nightstone Unlimited at all besides using its resources to finalize Operation Clean Slate?

Todd Jensen writes...

Some time ago, I mentioned a book by Eleanor Prosser called "Hamlet and Revenge", which argued that Hamlet's goal to avenge his father on Claudius was not a righteous duty, but a misguided and dangerous quest. Recently, I thought about a passage in it in connection to "Clan-Building: Volume Two".

In one of the early chapters, the author discusses Kyd's "The Spanish Tragedy", one of the leading revenge-plays before "Hamlet". The protagonist, Hieronimo, is out to avenge the murder of his son Horatio. After discovering his son's body near the start of the play, he decides not to bury it until he can achieve his revenge, an act which, Prosser comments, would have unsettled the audience.

This reminded me of the scene in "Clan-Building" where, after Demona reports the slaughter of the Sruighlea cell by Constantine and Gillecomgain, True suggests that they hold a Wind Ceremony for the dead gargoyles, and Demona rejects it in favor of pursuing revenge on the humans who did the deed. I just thought I'd share it with you.

Greg Bishansky writes...

Okay, this one has been on my mind for a while.

Demona trusted Thailog with a lot of her secrets. Thailog even said that they had no secrets from each other. Obviously, he was lying. But, did she keep things from him too?

Specifically, was Thailog aware of Operation Clean Slate? I don't think he'd have been on board with her plans for genocide. Neither did we see him feign a hatred for humanity in her presence. I tend to think that if he knew, he'd have put a stop to it while she was imprisoned in the Labyrinth.

But then again, she told him the secret to killing her, that's kind of a biggie.

So, do you think he knew about Operation Cleanslate, or not? And if he didn't know, why do you think she trusted him with the secret to killing her, but not her master plan?

Greg Bishansky writes...

I think we may have discussed this at a Gathering once, so forgive me.

We all know Demona holds Angela in a much higher regard than she has held anyone in, well, a very long time. Does the biological connection matter to her? I almost wonder if she would have gone through the trouble to turn Gabriel or Ophelia if either of them left Avalon with Goliath instead.

She did pause briefly in "Avalon Part Three" when Goliath pointed out that she was pointing a gun at her own children, after all.

But then, Demona has always been atypical of most gargoyles.

Quiz writes...

Dear Greg,

Mullets are the ugliest haircuts available to this world. How is it that Demona pulls it off so well?

Patricia Dove writes...

This one's about Demona's character.
I'm not sure if you've seen nostalgia critic's review of your series (he gave it 2 claws up), but during the review, he claimed Demona one of the great cartoon villains. She's much like Lady Macbeth with scales eh? But what I want to know is, was she ever truly good? We know she had a softer side once upon a time, but even then she was hostile to the humans' prejudice against her clan. She was double crossing her oath to protect the king back in the archmage days, and over time that hatred inside her grew 10 fold, as we know. So, was Demona just a natural born evil? A true villian? Or during your creation of her, did you ever once think that she was the honest 'Angel of the Night?'

Derek writes...

Demona is easily the most popular character on Gargoyles. Are you surprised by this or did you expect that she would be? Does it make you more conscious of how often you use her? Like Marlon Brando is Superman and Death in the Sandman comics?

Anonymous writes...

Does Demona like pudding? If so, what's her favorite kind?

Derek writes...

We've seen biological relations for all the members of the cast(Brooklyn(Brooksbro), Lexington(Kermit), Hudson and Broadway(True), Bronx(Chomp and Chaw)) except Demona and Goliath among the Wyvern Clan, is there a reason for this.

Derek writes...

If Demona had succeeded in Hunters Moon do you think the Manhattan Clan would have stayed in Manhattan? Would Demona have survived the spell, did even she know or care whether she did?

Derek writes...

1)What do you think would have happened if Demona hadn't betrayed Macbeth to Canmore? Do you think her clan would still be around or do you think that due to Demona's nature they were all already living on borrowed time?(I'm still waiting on Clan Buliding Two maybe that will give me some answers)