Ricky: A couple of neighbor boys I used to know introduced me to it. I would've never known the show existed if it wasn't for them. And so, I am forever grateful!

I kinda forgot the show for a while though... I remembered it through Toon Disney. Thank God for Comcast's schedule thingie on the remote! Oh, and I have to thank YouTube and Nayrusavatar for uploading all of the episodes. I love those things...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 1:56:22 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I agree, although its odd seeing you pair Aqua Teen up with Gargoyles and Batman. But it's not just cartoons that are suffering in quality these days. TV is swamped with reality shows and crappy shows that all tend to get canceled within a season. Anyone who actually likes wrestling will also tell you the glory days are gone. We get gems here and there, but alot of stuff just seems so terrible lately.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 12:36:01 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

I just watched a few seconds of CAPTAIN Ns take on Zelda 2!! "Muahhahahahaah!!" :D

I figured there should be both more cartoon shows like GARGOYLES, BATMAN TAS and AQUA TEEN HUNGER FORCE!! Now THAT would be my taste. :)
Brook
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 12:02:55 pm EDT from 84.191.219.183

"It was great back in the late 80s. Don't know how it holds up now, but you can get the complete series on DVD."

It's alright as long as you watch it with the understanding that it's gonna be cheesy as heck. The character designs are so far off in most cases but then it's not like 8 bit graphics gave them alot to work with

The only character they didn't really mess up was Link in his cameos.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 11:39:00 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

I meant the remark that he isn't in a hurry "anomre" and that he's not "dropping" things.

Basically, I wondered if we get what would have been Season 3 in comic form, or just a "Best-off" of season 3 with bridgeing EPs missing.

So it's interresting to me that he's doing the full thing. :)
Brook
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 11:01:33 am EDT from 84.191.219.183

Brook> Why is that interesting? It isn't anything we didn't already know. Greg has told us that the TimeDance would last forty years and would gain its own spinoff series to enable the telling of it.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 10:24:07 am EDT from 70.237.196.245

Interresting what Greg said to one of my questions:

"Brook writes...

Hi Greg,

I've got another question: with the comics being limited to a few books per year - are there any "minor" story arcs you've dropped along the way? I don't want to ask if there were "less important" ones, because who's yet to tell what is of importance in the future? I'd just like to know this, for the last Season of Gargoyles (Season 2) was so hughe and massive, that I'd like to know how you're working here (it's obvious that the Timedancing, for example, can't take as long as the Avalon-tour did, for there's not enough room). Are there side-storys you've dropped for now or that are on ice? Or are you just formulating the main storyarcs?

Thank you so much for awnsering, and once more - thank you for your time and work.

Greg responds...

I haven't DROPPED anything. I'm just in no hurry (anymore) to catch up to the present. I'm fine with the setting being the late nineties for the time being.

TimeDancer is MUCH longer than the World Tour. The latter lasted a few months. The former, forty years. But again, I'm in no hurry to tell it all at once."
Brook
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 10:05:48 am EDT from 84.191.240.119

Spongebob is brilliant, but you just realize it with turning 20!! :D

@ Ozzie: Nevermind if this is actually true or not (going to post it on 20 MBs now :D) - I could see networks do this. Kinda like with how they cancelled EVERWOOD because they weren't satisfied with the ratings and wanted to aim their shows at a different audience.

Again, I can "see why" - but find it disrespectful both to a show and the audience to do such a thing!!
Brook
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 9:51:10 am EDT from 84.191.240.119

lonerider26> Since you were born in '94, the year Gargoyles began, I'm really curious how you discovered the show. I love hearing stories about how fans first discovered Gargoyles, so if you and anyone else would like to share, I'm all ears. :)

I was 9 years old when the first Gargoyles episode aired (I'm now 23), and I was instantly hooked. I don't remember exactly how I knew about the show, but I remember seeing the first episode, and I never missed one.
Ricky
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 3:58:55 am EDT from 151.205.168.247

Tony: Ah, so that's why I've never heard of it. I was born in '94. I know nothing about the 80's.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 2:23:09 am EDT from 71.239.117.121

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_N:_The_Game_Master

It was great back in the late 80s. Don't know how it holds up now, but you can get the complete series on DVD.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 2:13:12 am EDT from 70.15.84.29

Ozzie: I've never heard of Captain N. Huh...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Sun, Oct 19, 2008 12:11:43 am EDT from 71.239.117.121

It's from Captain N. There was an episode where King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard used a genie to take over Metroid and turn it into Hippozoid(Don't ask). The N team were walking around and Mega Man says "I can see a booby trap a mile away!" Then suddenly a phone nearby rings and Mega Man stupidly answers it to which you hear Eggplant Wizard say that line before a boxing glove shoots out of the phone.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 11:38:17 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Ozzie: See, I don't really watch t.v. too much. And that's why. T.v. is just not what it used to be. One show I won't even dare to watch is The Misadventures of Flapjack. It might be even worse that SpongeBob...

Billy and Mandy is an okay show, I've watched it a couple times. Because of that show, I read Grim Tales from Down Below by Bleedman. Those comics are pretty cool :)

Out of curiosity, where did you get your signature from? A t.v. show? Or did you just make it up?
I always found it amusing...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 11:20:08 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I don't get to watch Cartoon Network much since I started working on Night Crew. But aside from Billy and Mandy the only shows I really like that they have now are on Adult Swim. And even that's not so great when you got crap like Xavier, Tim and Eric, and Squidbillies wasting time slots.

I miss when they were making good original cartoons like Samurai Jack, Dexter, and Powerpuff Girls.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 10:49:16 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Cartoon Network has been dropping a lot lately, and putting up more brainwashing shows up, some like SpongeBob Squarepants. Scary, isn't it?
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 10:39:57 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I withdraw my statement then. I wasn't really stating it as fact. I said I heard it. Someone on 4chan mentioned it and they don't keep things archived.

I see your point and can respect your professionalism.

The closest thing I could find was this saying they were dropping it in favor of new shows.
http://www.joeacevedo.com/docs/mycorner/Blog/files/b7ef1bedac4c24eb5fc2255dd7bffc1c-10.html
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 10:03:47 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

Ozzie> Sorry, but if you are going to make an outrageous claim, you have to cite a source. You said that Cartoon Network canceled "Justice League Unlimited" because it got a different target audience than they wanted, which is a very outrageous accusation.

Rumors get started like this, things spread, and all of a sudden you have people believing things without one shred of evidence. It's why journalists need to cite their sources. Why, if you write an essay for school, you need a bibliography. Otherwise, who knows what is fact and what is fiction. And people believe it, sometimes. You had Lonerider there believing it.

So, produce the comment you cite here, or withdraw your statement. Show your work. Google can search everything here.

C'mon... pony up or withdraw the statement.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 9:02:35 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

Greg B.> I don't have a source to site. It may have been a rumor because I read about it on 4chan back when the show actually got canceled. But Cartoon Network really does seem bad at making decisions about what to air and what not to air. They keep crap like Tim and Eric's Awesome Show on TV and never follow up on Korgoth which had a very positive response to the pilot. But seeing as how Justice League Unlimited did good in DVD sales, I find it hard to believe it got bad ratings on TV.

Then they have stuff like Ben 10: Alien Force where they basicly completely retconned the first series.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 8:28:59 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

I don't know if it has been said, but am I the only one hopping that once Karine finishes BG #6 she's jump at the chance of doing GARGOYLES #12? That's would be AWESOME!

Karine posts here sometimes right? Karine> I know you've mentioned multiple times how extremely busy you are, but is there any chance you'll be involved with #12?
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 7:02:51 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

I hope myself that the new pencillers will be quicker than Hedgecock - I have the uneasy feeling that he bears more responsibility for the delays than did the Disney clearance department. (Though I'm partly inclined to say that because of the facetious tone of his bio in "Gargoyles" #1 - remarks like "How he finds time to make comics, only Kirby knows" and "David has had his work published by many reputable (and some not-so-reputable) comic companies,(sic) a few have even managed to stay in business" make me fear that he doesn't take the job seriously enough.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 6:52:13 pm EDT from 4.244.212.103

Ozzie> Cite your source. This is how rumors are started. You have to learn to cite your sources.

For example, "Babylon 5" is one of my all time favorites, and I was really looking forward to the spin-off series, "Crusade." While B5 pulled in high ratings for TNT, it wasn't getting the demographic they wanted, so they screwed around with "Crusade" mid production, and then killed it before a single episode aired.

Yeah, that sounds like an outrageous claim, but I can cite my sources on that one. For example: http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16212

Just saying, if you're going to make an extraordinary statement like that, cite your source, please.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 2:35:45 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

Ozzie: Say what?!? I didn't even know they had that show on there. That's what I get for not watching any television...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 1:58:56 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

"Kid of like a television company settles for a series. (I'm REALLY annoyed at how it's an international standart nowadays to "cancel" a show when the numbers are low, even if in the midst of it. It's logic - but I find it kind of disrespectful.)"

You think that's bad? I heard Cartoon Network canceled Justice League Unlimited when it had high ratings simply because they were getting a different target audience then the one they wanted.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 1:21:22 pm EDT from 69.14.122.91

@ Demonskrye: Thanks you so much for that post - yeah, it was quite enlightening. :) I guess I'm a bit frustrated and deillusionised how a big company treats their shows. I just wish that they, with the decision of releasing a show on DVD, would focus on that primar show and how to release and market it in full - kind of how a normal prod-company who does, say, Japanese Horrorfilms and tries to get out all films of one specific line of films out one by one (like it was done with RING, or JU-ON or with various other more parters).

I just wished they'd focus on saying "OK - we do GARGOYLES or Darkwing Duck, so we do the wholedeal and not just one part of it and take a look at how it works.

Kid of like a television company settles for a series. (I'm REALLY annoyed at how it's an international standart nowadays to "cancel" a show when the numbers are low, even if in the midst of it. It's logic - but I find it kind of disrespectful.)

Anyways - you guys are right!! Let's stop moaning and do something!! :D (=buy TPB 2!!)
Brook
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 1:07:34 pm EDT from 84.191.248.90

Ozzie> lol, yes, several ppl have garg tatoos. Just not me:) Hey, in G'07, didn't a grp including Thom go get Phoenix Gate tats?

Landon> Blah. "TBA"... But thanks for the info!

Anyone know WHY Gummi Bears stopped? There were in fact 95 unique stories, some comprising only half of a half hour so that you got two stories in a single 1/2 hr episode. The only other show that comes close to my knowledge, from Disney, was Ducktales which had an equal number of episodes. No, Gummi Bears was never truly finished but has a fair and devoted, if small, fanfic realm. Like Gargoyles, it is a much beloved cartoon of mine and I can't wait to have them both. Gummi Bears will be one of the first cartoons I show my daughter. I just hope it's out before she's like 5 yrs old lol. So they got less than five years left!! Lol.
Jade Griffin
"Foooooooood!!!"
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 12:49:35 pm EDT from 71.94.79.73

Greg B.

Looking back at the news article on TVshowsonDVD that I was talking about, I realized I was wrong. They never posted an official statement by Disney, but seeing as how the post is from 2 years ago, I hope it's understandable why I didn't wasn't remembering it properly. I probably should have reread it before my last comment.

Anyhow something Gargoyles related that doesn't involve bashing Disney. Anyone ever get a Gargoyles tattoo? I'm thinking of getting one of Demona on my arm.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 11:40:46 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

One reason for Greg's/SLG's optimism for two January releases has to be new pencilers. From what I've heard, a professional artist of average speed can draw about one comic book per month. Since we won't have to worry about David Hedgecock's 3-6 month turn-around time any more, it's possible #12 could be done by the end of November if they find an artist ASAP. I'm assuming coloring only takes a couple weeks, but I don't know.

That would leave all of December for the arduous approvals. It's a long-shot, but I'm going to start out optimistic.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 10:48:15 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

TPBs> Yes, I'm also happy to hear that the books will be relelased so soon. I didn't expect that. Though with the delays these books have had in the past, who knows? I just hope to have both out before the Gathering.

I really think we need to push for these to sell. I mean really, really push them. This may be our last big chance for a while to get what we want. I would LOVE to see Gargoyles as graphic novels. I'll be buying several copies of each, but we need to make sure that every Gargoyles fan who has the money picks up at least one copy.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 9:17:52 am EDT from 70.237.196.245

LONERIDER - January, according to SLG's expectations. (It was in one of Greg's answers at "Ask Greg" yesterday.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Oct 18, 2008 7:11:58 am EDT from 4.244.214.205

Todd> I thought the same thing, but if both trades come out at the same time, I'll be thrilled. But I'm assuming it'll probably end up being more like: Bad Guys in late January and Clan-Building Vol 2 in mid-late February.
Ricky
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 10:57:56 pm EDT from 151.205.168.247

Wait, when are the TPBs coming out?
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 9:32:50 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I'm glad that the releases are scheduled that soon - though I was expecting the "Bad Guys" trade paperback to come out well before the second "Clan-Building" trade paperback. "Bad Guys" only has two as-yet-unreleased stories, while "Clan-Building" has four, so I would have expected "Bad Guys" to be completed first.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 7:23:51 pm EDT from 4.244.210.222

For the record, I'm not making any complaints about the DVDs, just responding to a comment:

Ed> Most of these cartoons don't have big narrative arcs so it could be safely assumed that the kids would never know the difference if they didn't release all the episods.

Don't know why Disney would do this when other companies released complete storyline free cartoons. Only thing that puzzles me if it's money problems it that it seemed like all sets so far (except Gummi Bears maybe, didn't the show have about 80 episodes?) did well enough to get further releases only to be a volume away from being complete. Was the expectations rising everytime a new volume was being released.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 7:01:11 pm EDT from 71.120.226.102

Interesting that so many Disney DVD series are incomplete. Pure speculation, but I wonder if there's a concern that releasing too many sets is going to put the DVDs in one series in competition with each other. Collectors will get the lot, but if a good chunk of the people buying these series just want something to keep their kids quiet for a few hours, it makes more sense to have lots of different options on the shelves than four different editions of 'Ducktales' or 'Gargoyles' or whatnot. Most of these cartoons don't have big narrative arcs so it could be safely assumed that the kids would never know the difference if they didn't release all the episods.
Ed
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 6:06:02 pm EDT from 213.187.38.226

Ooooh, I like David Hutchinson's art: http://david-hutchison.blogspot.com/ It looks like we might get an anime/manga flare: http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=000860

Here's to dual January releases!
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 5:23:01 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Whoops, it didn't like my tabs. But you get the idea.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 3:37:06 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

I find the Disney Afternoon DVD release history interesting:

Darkwing Duck
Volume Release date Ep #
1 August 29, 2006 27
2 August 7, 2007 27
3 TBA 27
4 TBA 10

DuckTales
Volume Release date Ep #
1 November 8, 2005 27
2 November 14, 2006 24
3 November 13, 2007 24
4 TBA 25

TaleSpin
DVD Name Release Date Eps#
Volume One August 29, 2006 23eps. with 4-part pilot.
Volume Two November 13, 2007 27 eps.
Volume Three TBA 11 eps.

Adventures of The Gummi Bears
Volume 1 release: November 14, 2006
Volume 2 release: TBA

Gargoyles
DVD Name Ep # Release Date
Season 1 13 December 7, 2004
Season 2: Volume 1 26 December 6, 2005
Season 2: Volume 2 26 TBA
Season 3 13 TBA

Gargoyles was the first show to get a DVD release, but it wasn't the last. Disney has been willing to release box sets as recently as 11 months ago. Since there haven't been any more release announcements for any of the above shows, either Disney decided to refocus their attention or all the shows eventually encountered depressed sales. That said, Disney certainly has a nasty habit of unfinished DVD lines.

The large number of non-Gargoyles releases since December 6, 2005 implies that it really was sales that kept the last Gargoyles box set from being released rather than simply someone not paying attention. I still think once the time and management is right, they'll release for all those shows.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 3:36:01 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Ozzie> <<One thing I have never liked about this whole thing though is that Disney said if the current DVDs sold enough they "might" release the rest. The thing is they never told us what the sales figures were or what would be the likely target to get the rest released. So right from the beginning it felt to me as though Disney was merely using us as a tool to sell more of something that's already been released while having no intention of releasing the rest. Because they can always say "Well we never promised we would, we said we might.">>

Citation please?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 1:56:13 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

No offense guys, but what is the point of whining about what Disney could/should do to bolster Gargoyles as a property? There are LOADS of things they COULD do that would make Gargoyles a more profitable venture. But since they WON'T do them, what's the point of complaining? There's no reason to bitch and moan about something we can't change. Why don't we talk about things we CAN change? Like, coming up with a brilliant way to get people to buy the existing Gargoyles products or to buy the upcoming trades? If we can come up with an idea that will increase sales even a little, then we have definitely helped the property. If we bitch about something we can't change, we aren't helping anyone.

Personally I don't have any ideas to contribute, but just because we haven't thought of it yet, doesn't mean there's not SOME way to promote them really well.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 1:25:49 pm EDT from 76.165.38.212

Battle Beast> Part of the problem when we talk about "Disney" is that the term means all kinds of different things: a huge company focused primarily on entertainment, an animation studio, a brand name associated with family friendly entertainment, a cable channel, a number of theme parks, Walt, Roy O, Roy E, etc. Because some companies have the Disney/Buena Vista name, we may feel that those companies *are* Disney while everything else is merely a company that Disney owns. But I believe the point Greg B is making is that there is no mandate from the highest levels of the Disney company that everything they put out must be famil friendly entertainment. It's not as if Disney couldn't stop the companies they own from putting out darker more adult aimed product or divest themselves of these companies if they wanted to.

I believe the argument that keeps coming up is that the Disney brand is supposed to mean family fun and kids' cartoons and "Gargoyles" isn't typical Disney show and that's why Disney keeps ignoring it. But the other Disney Afternoon shows are a much better fit for the typical Disney audience than "Gargoyles" and none of hem are getting full series DVD releases either - let alone a brand new comic. I've said it before and I'll probably feel compelled to say it again: it's all about the money. No one at Disney is saying "We don't want your smelly twenty- to thirtysomething dollars; we only target kids." They just don't feel that - based on their understanding of the property and the sale figures they have - "Gargoyles" is something that can make them a big enough profit. Even if you stopped calling it "Disney's Gargoyles" and released it as "Touchstone Animation's Gargoyles" or some such thing, that wouldn't change.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 11:17:00 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

I can assure you that any company that Disney owns is highly aware of the fact that they'd better be doing only those projects that will give the greatest return on investment. If Disney owns the company, it's all Disney's money.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 10:55:52 am EDT from 76.241.140.98

JADE> CONGRATS!

Greg> Sure, which is why Disney made "Pulp Fiction," Et. Al...

Disney OWNS THE COMPANIES who made the films. They had little if anything to do releasing the films. There is a difference.
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 10:01:07 am EDT from 75.152.237.85

When I bought the DVDs, I discovered that I'd only missed something like 2 of the season 2A episodes. I've missed a lot of season 2B, and without either DVDs, Youtube, or some other place/way to view them, I'll never see what I missed. -..-
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 9:06:30 am EDT from 71.56.36.35

I wonder if there might be a few "Gargoyles" fans out there who don't mind that they never came out with the second half of Season Two on DVD, with a tone of "Yeah, we don't get the complete season, but most of the second half was about the Avalon World Tour, so we're not missing that much".

Though, regardless of what you think about the World Tour (and I enjoyed a lot of the episodes in it), the second half also has "Hunter's Moon", which was a great season finale.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 8:22:41 am EDT from 4.244.212.80

Jade : Congratulations!

Blue Wyvern : "Alexander Fox Xanatos IV and I" You do know that they're one and the same, right? The way you grouped them seemed to imply that you thought otherwise.
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 6:17:39 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

I make one little reference to Hannah Montana and I have all this to read when I get back.

One thing I have never liked about this whole thing though is that Disney said if the current DVDs sold enough they "might" release the rest. The thing is they never told us what the sales figures were or what would be the likely target to get the rest released. So right from the beginning it felt to me as though Disney was merely using us as a tool to sell more of something that's already been released while having no intention of releasing the rest. Because they can always say "Well we never promised we would, we said we might."

And what exactly will ever be considered "enough" when they're likely being compared for their undeserving yet more popular shows? But then again it's not like Disney are the only ones who did this. Inspector Gadget and Animaniacs are incomplete due to sales.

But maybe I'm just bitter towards Corporations in general. After all I live in Michigan, where the big 3 mismanaged their own companies and have flooded the employment lines with people who should be working on cars.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Fri, Oct 17, 2008 5:32:37 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

Jade Griffin> Congrats. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 8:18:38 pm EDT from 99.168.79.19

Jade Griffin> Big congratulations! And yes, that's a perfectly legitimate reason not to be keeping up with the comics. I can understand that collecting the single issues was not always easy, but now that we're getting the trades, it should be as simple as going on Amazon and placing an order. Best to you and your recently explanded family!

Brook> "I'm not even calling for HSM to be erased. But with ALL that money Disney DOES actually MAKE - couldn't they do something for the fans ONCE??

The awnser: Yes, if it is profitable to a certain degree!!"

First point. Yes Disney does make a lot of money. And they likely lose a lot of money on some projects that don't turn out as well as Disney expects. Now the tons of money that Disney makes on other projects may not actually mean anything for "Gargoyles" because there are likely separate budgets for DVD releases and possibly even separate budgets for animated DVDs and live action or different genres or whatever. But assuming that Disney could take the money from the last "High School Musical" and put it wherever, the person in charge of deciding how that money is spent has a couple of choices:

- Make a DVD of the second half of "Gargoyles: Season Two," despite the fact that the previous DVD did not meet sales expectations, and maybe advertise it more than the previous two releases.

- Work on a new project for the tween girl market which is similar to "High School Musical," but expands into slightly different territory just to add a little diversity.

- Make another "High School Musical."

Oversimplified? Yes. Way off the mark? Probably not. The job of the people at Disney who decide where to spend money is to try and determine how they can spend that money to get the most bang for their buck, the biggest return on their dollars. This is why there was virtually no advertising for the "Gargoyles" DVDs. It's not that no one told Disney that more people would buy the DVDs if they advertised them. It's that Disney didn't believe that enough additional people would buy the DVDs if they were more heavily advertised to make the investment worthwhile. If you sell two DVDs for every dollar you spend advertising "Gargoyles" and a hundred DVDs for every dollar you spend on "Hannah Montana," which one is the better choice? (I really have no use for any of Disney's tween girl shows, but they are popular so I'll use them as examples.) As is, Disney spent next to nothing on advertising for "Gargoyles" and it still didn't meet their sales goals, which would have to be higher to cover additional costs if Disney were to give it an advertising budget.

As for the idea of Disney doing something for the fans "just once," several years ago, someone asked Greg a very similar question. This person wondered why Disney had to always be so concerned with making the most money possible and why they couldn't just release the rest of "Gargoyles" on DVD because it would be a nice thing to do for the fans. And Greg, who probably loves "Gargoyles" more than you or I or anyone else in the world, said that he wouldn't want Disney to do that. Not because he doesn't think the rest of season two should come out on DVD, but because as a stocklholder, he wants Disney to committed to turning a profit. And putting out product just to be nice to the fans of that product sets a very bad precedent business-wise.

Let's says Disney decided to release the rest of season two on DVD. It sells reasonably well. Maybe Disney even gets to bundle all three box sets together and net themselves a few more sales that way. It turns a profit, but nothing exceptional. But then, Disney starts getting letters and e-mails from other fans, who are complaining that Disney still hasn't released the full "Gargoyles" series yet because there's this third season that hasn't been released yet. (No I'm not saying that "The Goliath Chronicles" coming out on DVD would be the worst possible outcome. Stay with me.) Disney figures an additional box set probably won't sell that much worse than the previous ones and might help moves some more big sets of the whole series. So they put that out too. But then, in come the fans of all the other Disney Afternoon shows that got partial releases on DVD. "Hey, what gives? we know our DVDs sold at least as well as 'Gargoyles,' if not better. Why did you finish that series on DVD and not the ones we like?" They have a point, and Disney wants to keep the fans happy. So every Disney Afternoon DVD set that was started gets finished. "But what about us "Mighty Ducks" fans? Our show was on Disney Afternoon too." Well OK. Kids still like hockey, right? "We want "Aladdin!" And "Timon and Pumbaa!" I guess they are tied in to feature films. "'Quack Pack' has Donald Duck." That's true. "You forgot "The Schnookums and Meat Funny Cartoon Show!" How can you ignore the huge demographic of people who wanted a watered down "Ren and Stimpy?" Well, if it keeps the fans happy...

"Marsupalami!" Sure. "Brandy and Mr. Whiskers!" Fine. "Teamo Supremo!" Whatever.

I think you get the point. If Disney doesn't set some kind of criteria like a certain amount of profit or a large fanbase they don't want to upset for what does and doesn't get released on DVD, what rationale would they have for not releasing everything in their library, no matter how much money it might lose?

I'd be willing to bet that your definition of "profitable to a certain degree" is very different from Disney's definition. The people who decide what gets a DVD release have to justify that decision and every dollar spent on it to their bosses who in turn have to justify it to their bosses and so on all the way up the chain of command. At best, they may be told that no one believes it will make enough money. At worst, they may be told that their ideas are terrible, they have no clue what they're doing, and their desks should be cleaned out by this afternoon.

None of this is to say that I don't want the rest of season two on DVD. But there is no way around the fact that we won't be getting that until Disney believes "Gargoyles" is worth the money they would have to spend to make it. And no amount of "Disney should" is ever going to get the DVD released because we have no control over what Disney does. All we can do is vote with our dollars.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:56:12 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

If you'll permit me to totally ignore the flow of the CR, I've still got 2198 on the brain. Now I'm thinking about Samson and Delilah.

A lot of the 2198 characters in some way echo current Gargoyles characters -- Zafiro 2198 and present, LXM and Lexington, Alexander Fox Xanatos IV and I, Nick and Natsilane, etc. Then you've got the characters who are simply present in both times, like Brooklyn and Demona, for even further continuity. It occurred to me that since Delilah 2198 is probably going to echo Delilah 1996 to some degree -- name, probably roughly similar appearance -- perhaps Greg envisioned her also voiced by Salli Richardson? I know he doesn't like to talk about speculative casting for fear of alienating people, but that one seems pretty safe.

Then I remembered that Samson is supposed to be obviously descended from Goliath, so he'll probably look very similar visually. Now, it's more of a stretch, since Samson is supposed to be pretty young, but maybe he's supposed to be voiced by Keith David, too (doing his lighter, "young" voice like in "Long Way to Morning" flashbacks, I guess). Now THAT would be pretty cool, I think. Keith and Salli through the ages. I think I'm warming to this couple.

I realized one additional reason I may not have picked up on the Samson/Delilah pairing, and that's because, in my mind, they're both the same color! In my versions of the characters, I made Samson Broadway green and Delilah Malibu green, and that would just clash. You can't have a gargoyle couple with clashing or too similar colors!
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:52:21 pm EDT from 69.112.108.43

Sorry about the double post... (>*.*)>

Looks like my question for Todd has already been answered... <_<'''
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>*¬*)> I was invited to the Scream 2008 awards, but I have no way to get there...and no one is able to go with me... **uber sad**
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:50:08 pm EDT from 67.101.237.11

Todd >> When is it being published and where can I get a copy?

Demonskrye >> You should take Brook's idea and post your state of the franchise address and post it whereever Gargoyles is discussed!

Bishansky >> I was actually going to post a much more simpler post that went along the lines of what you were saying in regards to Demonskrye's post. However, not only did you beat me to it, you also expanded on the subject quite nicely. So, there's no need for me to reiterate what's already been said. :)
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>*¬*)> I was invited to the Scream 2008 awards, but I have no way to get there...and no one is able to go with me... **uber sad**
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:48:29 pm EDT from 67.101.237.11

Todd: Ah, I shall be patiently waiting! Can't wait to read it :)
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:48:18 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I don't know yet. I'll let you know when it's due. (The deadline for article submission is May 1, 2009, so the book won't be published for several months yet.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:46:31 pm EDT from 4.244.215.61

Todd: Where is it being published? I'd gladly buy it, but I have no idea where to get it...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:41:14 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Sorry, you'll have to wait for the anthology to be published to read it.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:33:50 pm EDT from 4.244.215.61

Todd: Is it on the internet? I'd really like to read it!
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:32:52 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I finished the first draft of my "Gargoyles" article for the anthology that I mentioned a few months ago (an anthology of articles on the Middle Ages as depicted on television).

Because of the nature of the anthology, I focused on the medieval aspects of the show - the gargoyles' origins in medieval Scotland, the flashbacks to Scotland in the 10th and 11th centuries, the adaptation of early Scottish history (Macbeth's life in "City of Stone" and Constantine murdering Kenneth in "Avalon Part One"), and the use of the Arthurian cycle. I also discussed the gargoyles' trying to make sense of the modern world - such as the scene where Goliath asks Elisa why Manhattan doesn't have city walls (the natural response of a medieval person to a modern city), and understands when she explains that the biggest problems are from inside the city. (I even brought up one advantage of the gargoyles' medieval origins - remarks that could have easily seemed preachy in another series, such as Hudson saying at the end of "The Thrill of the Hunt", "Maybe we shouldn't believe everything we see on the television", here work as the gargoyles trying to make sense of their new surroundings.)

Because of the focus on the medieval aspects of the series, a few episodes were treated differently than they might have in a more conventional review - for example, in my comments on "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", I concentrated on how the episode handled Merlin (particularly that it dwelt on his role as King Arthur's advisor and teacher, rather than just a famous wizard) rather than on the pro-literacy element (which we more immediately think of).

Since the anthology was specifically about television, I didn't say much about the comic book, but I did briefly mention the Stone of Destiny story, which not only included Arthur and Macbeth, but also alluded to parts of early Scottish history (that might count as medieval) in Shari's stories, such as the Stone's links to St. Columba and Kenneth mac Alpin.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:08:09 pm EDT from 4.244.215.61

Brook: It was so worth it! We had to wait out in freezing conditions, but, it was worth it. He waved to my friend and I. I melted...

I remember when HSM first came out. It was all the rage, even I was into it, for a little while. But, then it died down, and we all got older...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 6:21:55 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Yeah. And I hope HSM is doing to be a bummer. Not to hurt Disney, but because it is crap.

Oh yes, it is!!
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 6:12:26 pm EDT from 84.191.236.90

lonerider: Even as a heterosexual man, I am jealous!!

Johnny Depp is probably one of the most talented actors earth ever brought up!!

ST was one of my favourite Burton films. It is really good, but only if you are willing to fully surrender to "Burton the artist".

Oh, and it is VERY bloody. What I don't dislike.

Seen ALIEN yet? ;)
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 6:11:47 pm EDT from 84.191.236.90

I still can't believe that HSM is going to be in theaters...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 6:03:35 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Brook: Okay then, I will.

I still need to see Sweeny Todd... On the bright side, at least I got to see Johnny Depp in person :) Yeah living only 10 minutes away from Crown Point! He's short though... Ha ha, randomness...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 6:02:48 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

@ lonerider: WATCH There will be Blood!!

Daniel Plainview is my single favourite movie character this year. Even above stone faced killer Bardem, the various Dylan incarnations (LOVE :D LOVE) and Sweeney Todd!!
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:59:18 pm EDT from 84.191.236.90

@ Demonskrye: I'm not even calling for HSM to be erased. But with ALL that money Disney DOES actually MAKE - couldn't they do something for the fans ONCE??

The awnser: Yes, if it is profitable to a certain degree!!

Which is frustrating in terms of DVD sales. If it were for a film, I'd say "FINE - DUNE didn't sell that well, so it's the only thing we get.", bt with DVDs, especially with such a weird release politic as with Season 2, it's just dull and bureaucratic!!

If a STAR TREK film would stop, they'd still release it on DVD and do another one!!!

= if GARGOYES Season 2.1. stopped, they could have moved on, made some promotion and release 2.2. alson with.... Darkwing Duck 2, I dunno, but with something to make income!!

People reffer to DISNEY so many times as a "company" - yet from the companies I've seen, DISNEYs structure seems to resemble more of an anthill of all that we know!! :C
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:57:55 pm EDT from 84.191.236.90

Doesn't Disney own ABC too?
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:52:05 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Ozzie and Landon> Weird as it may seem, smaller companies can sometimes get away with smaller profit margins. It can be for any number of reasons: they're private companies that don't have to worry about stockholders, their releases are more bare bones, the don't have as many people working on the project who need to be paid, they do it more for the love of the properties than to make a ton of money, etc. So it's not so much that "Gargoyles" and the other Disney Afternoon shows aren't turning a profit on DVD; they just aren't turning the kind of profits that Disney wants to see.

As for the advertising, or lack there of, it's been mentioned before that there are a lot of DVDs and DVD sets that have very little advertising upon release and rely more on fans paying attention and word of mouth. And as Greg B brings up later, Greg W did outright tell Disney that little to no advertising would be all right, because otherwise, we would have had no advertising and no DVD. So while it's unfortunate, I don't think it was totally insane for Disney to release the DVDs to very little fanfare.

Tony> You make a good point, but I would add that there may well be a point years after the Wellness initiative has passed when there's a new executive in charge who one day says "Hey, you know what would be a great concept for us to focus on? Wellness." And hopefully, there will still be people under this executive who will remember the previous wellness initiative and be able to tell new exec about it, not to say that it's been done and shouldn't be tried again, but to review what was done before on the wellness front, go over what worked, what didn't and what could be improved, and determine if wellness could be a concept worth trying again. We've heard rumbling recently that Disney wants to start up a network aimed at preeteen boys to counter the fact that Disney Channel skews heavily to either preschoolers or girls. So they're pulling in some of the shows they have on Jetix and likely looking to pick up some anime and some new shows that will appeal to that demographic, largely of the action-adventure genre. And if we're lucky, someone at Disney will say "Hey, we actually have our own action-adventure show from back in the 90s that we don't have to pay anything for. Maybe we should take a look at that." We can't do much to ensure that this person is at Disney, but the more money "Gargoyles" brings in, the more likely it is to get looked at when someone brings up a project it might fit into.

Brook> Politics can play a hand at decisions made by big companies, but in the end, it's all about money. You can have people who are pretty high up at a company championing a project, but if it just isn't pulling its weight, their support can only do so much to help it. At this point, I don't think there are many people in a high enough position to kill franchises like "Hannah Montana" and "High School Musical" even if they wanted to because these properties do make a ton of money and stockholders would be livid. I do agree that a lot of big companies are much too focused on short term profits as opposed to what may be more profitable in the long run. But regardless, Disney just doesn't see "Gargoyles" or much of the Disney Afternoon in general as moneymakers.

Guns> I think part of the reason we might see a little more willingness on the part of the London Clan to use guns than we're seeing from the Manhattan Clan is their cultural differences. The Manhattan Clan comes from a time when fighting was very up close and personal for the most part. Weapons were pretty scarce in the Wyvern Clan. There was no outright prohibition against them, but they were more the exception than the rule. The London Clan is a more modern clan. Even Griff was probably quite accustomed to the notion of using guns for long range fighting before his time traveling. Even if the clan never used guns before, they're more used to seeing them and have had ample time t adjust to them being around. For the Manhattan Clan, it's just one more bit of culture shock. The first gargoyle they saw using a gun of any kind was Demona and that probably didn't start things off very well. And Broadway has an understandable personal aversion to guns. Think about it: if you accidentally injured someone the first time you tried driving a car, it would probably be a while - if ever- before you could get behind the wheel again. And Broadway isn't a fanatic. He's never made any negative comments about Elisa continuing to carry a gun. He just understands that they can be very dangerous and are best taken out of the equation as soon as possible in a fight.

Moral concerns aside, guns just don't fit into how the Manhattan Clan fights. And judging from Coco's comments, that sentiment isn't limited to gargs who grew up in the 10th century.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:51:35 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

GregB: Completely off the subject, but, am I the only one having problems logging on to devArt?
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:49:50 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

@ GregB: Sure - it makes sense - if you're a mathematician or an accountant, and if money is the driving force behind Disney. Oh, it is... :S OK - then rather if you need the money to survive.

First: I rules out the films you mentioned. I am aware of them being part of the DISNEY company, but I was referring to the Cartoon-Disney (or rather CGI and DISNEY-Disney... I actually don't know how to call the difference between the studio that did HSM and THERE WILL BE BLOOD).

My point is: Disney is going the way of instant success. They take a look at what is selling, and go down that way. OK. That is completely logical. If I would have a record label, or a supermarket, I'd also go with the products that sell best and multiply them (probably throw some promotion into it).

BUT! As a record company, I would not stop pressing the CDs of lesser valued acts. As the head of a supermarket, I would not delete yoghurt from the list, because, even though the income is small, there IS an income and voiced interrest.
By stopping the sale of yoghurt (for example), the 100 people who love yoghurt might get pissed and buy the yoghurt (and the other stuff) elsewhere!!

Sure - if I'd be the owner of a small shop round the corner that would have to keep an eye on every penny, I'd probably do it to survive!!

Of course Gargoyles is not yoghurt. But Disney isn't a small company. Een though they don't gain the large profit they aimed at, they still acquire quite a sum of money from the sold DVDs. But instead of releasing BOTH S2 DVDs at the same time, they release part 1 first and wait for the income to see if it is profitable to do the second part.

Now - if we'd be talking a seasonal release (like with TWIN PEAKS, where Season 2 had huge problems of getting a release), I wouldn't wonder. But with half a season, it is quite illogic!! If they'd have released both at the same time (and having twice the profit for a small amount of spend money - cause really, who buys part 1 of a season and not part 2??), they would have made lots more!!

I hope you get my point: On paper, this is completely logic!!
But in real life??
Example: I'm the head!! Harry Potter 1 sells 50.000 copies, I grant part 2 being published. Part 2 does 15.000 copies. I see that I got income, but it is small. So I just CUT it??

I'm aware of the fact that Gargoyles is 'OLD' - but then again, with a bit more publicity, international release and consequence, S1 AND 2 could become grower, that, over a time period of 2 years, could become quite profitable!!

And even if they do not: releasing your entire catalogue on DVD is nowadays more a matter of time than a matter of money. The only fault Disney could do would be to release material tha doesn't bring as much profit as they'd think before the release!! But do they loose big amounts of money, status or fans? Quite the contrary.

What I want to point out is, that the idea of "instant profit" is nonsense!!

I named record labels earlier, because they did this in the past few years: they invested what they had in acts that made huge amounts of money the first 2 years, then fell rapidly, whilst they failed to support acts that, over a bigger timespan, made a lot more money, then these bands did in one year!!

In other words: will HSM3 sell as much in 10 yeas as it does now? Hardly!! Will it be remembered as an outstanding film 10 years from now? Hardly.

But OH, LOOK, I'm still here, on a Gargoyles message board, 12 years after it's demise, talking to people who are in ther early teens and late thirtees!!
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:48:16 pm EDT from 84.191.236.90

GregB: Yes, they are, but to us, you can see the difference a mile away. That, and they're shorter...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:47:57 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Early teens are still teens.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:45:58 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

GregB: Oh, they never fail. As long as it makes them a whole bunch of money, then it's the next big thing! I personally can't go any where now a days without seeing Hannah Montana merchandise. It's like its following me...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:45:34 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

*continues post* ... at least from what I've seen. I think that 12 and maybe even some 13 year olds might like it, but, when you get into high school... it doesn't really interest you that much. That's why they're making so much money. It's from the pre-teens and early teens.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:43:06 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Lonerider: You may think Disney failed on that one. But the financial revenues don't lie. You and I are in the minority on this one.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:41:50 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

GregB: I guess I just missed out then *shrugs* Now I wanna go watch it...

Yeah, I know. But, I don't know one girl in my grade that likes those shows. I think Disney failed on that one...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:39:52 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Lonerider> "There Will Be Blood" was one of the biggest movies of 2007. Best Picture nominee. Daniel Day-Lewis won Best Actor for it. It had a hard R rating.

Read my other posts on this subject.

As for demographics, believe it or not, most of Hannah Montana and High School Musical's demographics are teenage girls. Not just children. And they are bringing in a lot of money.

Just the way it is.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:34:02 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

GregB: I've never heard of "There Will Be Blood". Huh...

I was mostly talking about the Disney channels, not really the movies. I still remember Disney afternoons... Those were the days...

I know how the industry works. Living in the world we have today, making money isn't easy...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:30:18 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Never mind any of this stuff, but...

Jade> Congratulations!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:22:59 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

I never called those shows quality shows. Personally, I want "Gargoyles" back as well. More than you can imagine.

I'm just trying to explain how the entertainment industry works.

And once again, this whole notion that Disney only targets young children is wrong. Because "There Will Be Blood" was not exactly child friendly fare.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:19:05 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

Jade Griffen: Congrats! Even though I don't know you... Oh well, congrats anyway! =P
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:14:18 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Demonscrye> My excuse for not keeping track w/ the comics? Lol, life. I just gave birth like 6 days ago. Not MUCH of an excuse but I will pick them up. I recieved Clan Building Volume One as a gift recently so I didn't buy that. I'm not sure where we're at on the comic aside from SLG stopped putting it out and all that hooplah, etc. Haven't gone to the site to see what is out and where we stopped yet. Would love to have the dvd pt. 2 season 2 released, as I'd like to see Gummi Bears Volume 2 out. Will get around to pitching a fit to Disney that they aren't out yet sometime soon but honestly, that's why. Oh, and Reno does not carry any good comic shops, let alone ones that pick up gargs, so I just go online to make my purchases.

Yes, if you can make the Gathering, you can buy the comic:) That's a great way to put it. I'll try and do better!
Jade Griffin
"Foooooooood!!!"
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:12:14 pm EDT from 71.94.79.73

GregB: I said that about HM and HHS, not Brook(just an FYI). And really, the only reason I mentioned it is because I hate them both equally. Despise, actually. What I miss is the shows that actually taught you values. Not that Disney doesn't do that every once in a while, but usually, it's just for entertainment and comedy.

I'm not bashing Disney, nor do I hate it, but, from a person who's grown up with classic Disney films (such as Aladdin, Hercules, 101 Dalmatians, exc.), they've gone down hill. I personally wish they made more shows for teenagers and families with older children, because HM and HHS are rather, well, just not entertaining for them. At all. It's actually quite scary. Though, I AM quite curious about Bolt, and Beverly Hill Chihuahua. Something that you can actually see that the whole family can enjoy, and not just the kids. That's the reason teens hate Disney these days. They just don't have anything to interest us. Maybe little kids, but not us teens.

We need more shows like Gargoyles. Or Gargoyles can just come back on the air. That works too :D
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 5:08:54 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

BROOK> I am going to reply to your points here one by one.

<<I understand what you're saying, and I know of this, sure - but we're talking DISNEY here!! DISNEY!!>>

And Time Warner is Time Warner. Microsoft is Microsoft. McDonalds is McDonalds. A statement like that doesn't help you make your point.

<<I can understand that with their size, it is really hard to keep track of things (= not loosing money due to a huge output of sales that don't bring in any money)>>

Who said anything about Disney having trouble keeping track of things? I didn't say it. No one else here said it. If anything, they have an army of accountants to keep track of their revenue.

<<- but not releaseing their most important 90s shows on DVD and market them is just STRANGE!!>>

Not if those shows on DVD aren't bringing in the revenue to justify further releases. There is nothing strange about it. It's all perfectly logical, actually.

<<I'm aware of what's going on right now with HM/HSM and why - but it seems to me that Disney tries to keep their new fans rather than please the old ones.>>

Disney is not trying to please or displease anyone except for their stockholders. It has nothing to do with fans. It is all about the revenue. This is the cold reality of it all.

<<Sure - Disneys main target audience are kids.>>

Sure, which is why Disney made "Pulp Fiction," "Gangs of New York," "Kill Bill," "Trainspotting," "From Dusk Till Dawn," and more recently, "There Will Be Blood," and "No Country For Old Men."

All Disney.

<<There is a market!! There are people who would buy this thing, even if they're not uber-fans waiting for the release day, they'd BUY it.>>

Well, obviously not enough of them actually went out and spent the money. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Again, we can get into the notion of how Disney lacked in advertising for this, but we knew that going in. Greg told us from Day One. A lot of fans chose not to believe him.

<<What estranges me therefore is that DISNEY is now where Music Industry was in the beginning of the 00s - something is a surprise hit, company is appy, and redoes the surprise hit to gain maximum success out of it. Cool, I'm fine with it. But we are talking ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPANIES OF THE WORLD HERE!!>>

I do not understand what you're trying to say here.

<<So why they don't release and promote their older material for some extra cash (and a small amount of costs - we're not talking indie-filmproduction here, we're talking of the guys who do Disney World, own a very, very successful movie-production company and various comicmags!!) beats me!!>>

Obviously they did, but the revenue didn't justify continuing it. I remember seeing advertising for Darkwing Duck on DVD.

<<Rather than wait for the numbers, they should release things in bundles!! TWIN PEAKS and BATMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES did this, and they did quite good at that!!>>

Oh, I guarantee you that Warner Bros waited for the numbers on those first Batman DVDs before they committed to more. I guarantee that. And Batman sold on DVD very well.

<<So - really, why??>>

I told you why.

So, ponder this. If it would make a thousand people happy, would you pull a $100 bill out of your wallet and set it on fire?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 4:49:34 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

Brook: I was actually able to find a way to get the episodes, searched on Youtube for a tutorial ;) Thanks!
VoLpE de FuEgO - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
too tired to type one T_T
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 4:46:05 pm EDT from 75.74.224.252

I think something that would make a remarkable difference in sales is to put a quick little 30-second trailer/blurb/announcement on the DVDs they sell of other movies (you know how there are always several trailers that you can access from the DVD menu, or sometimes they play before the DVD menu). I don't know how it would cost that much--all the footage already exists. It seems to me like it would be extremely easy to do and probably pretty cheap, with the potential to be quite profitable. Still, it must not be as cost-effective or as potentially profitable or as feasible as I think it is, otherwise Disney would probably have done this already. They're not stupid, after all.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 4:45:01 pm EDT from 76.165.34.175

I should add: I know of smaller companies who spend a large sum of money to make sure they release all they have, to gain maximum income. From my knowledge, there's sooner or later an audience to DVDs - be it shows, series, documentarys or feauture films. Sooner or later, an interrest is voiced!!

Now Disney obviously wouldn't need doing this - but why miss the extra cash??

For example: A limited edition of 10.000 copys would do well and be a collectors item!!

I've seen companies spend all their money on DVD releases and distributing them quite well. Sure, this also has to do with growth. But the reality is, that a company as large as Disney doesn't HAVE TO CARE ABOUT THIS!!

They don't spend a hell lot more than 1 Million doing those DVDs!! I guess with todays prices a LOT less - and even though the profit is not "high" (like HSM1/2/3-high), it is still there!!
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 4:37:05 pm EDT from 84.191.236.90

Size of the future trades > Consistency is important to me...however, I would be happy to ignore the inconsistency, just for the sake of having the next trades be normal-sized. The increase in quality and readability would outweigh any pleasures I might get from having a consistent set of trades. When the quality of a new product (as compared to an older product) goes down, I get annoyed over the lack of consistency and the quality reduction. When the quality of a new product goes up, I overlook the inconsistency and am pleased with the increase in quality. I wasn't disappointed with the Season 2 DVD being packaged differently than the Season 1 DVD, because I felt that it was packaged BETTER than the Season 1 DVD, and thus I overlooked the inconsistency. However, if the Season 1 DVD had been packaged like the Season 2 one, and then Season 2 had been packaged like Season 1, I would have felt disappointed at the inconsistency...but mainly at the reduction in quality. That's how I feel about quality vs. consistency.

So, in short, I would like it if the upcoming trades are normal-sized trades. If the total cost that will be passed along to fans is only a little bit more, I think it wouldn't affect sales negatively (at least not much). Ultimately though, our opinions probably don't really matter. SLG will probably release whatever size trade they think will yield them the best profit (which is understandable).
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 4:35:55 pm EDT from 76.165.34.175

@ Greg: Haha, not THAT young anymore.
I understand what you're saying, and I know of this, sure - but we're talking DISNEY here!! DISNEY!!

I can understand that with their size, it is really hard to keep track of things (= not loosing money due to a huge output of sales that don't bring in any money) - but not releaseing their most important 90s shows on DVD and market them is just STRANGE!!
I'm aware of what's going on right now with HM/HSM and why - but it seems to me that Disney tries to keep their new fans rather than please the old ones.

Sure - Disneys main target audience are kids. I know a lot of people who still, when I bring up GARGOYLES, get big smiles on their faces. "That shpw sure was cool... what happenned to it?" "Well, there are now DVDs and comics etc." "WHAT?? Why didnt I see any?" "Well... they're out in the Us, but..." "AH, damn, I gotta usual player with RC2, and I guess impot DVDs are too costy anyways."

AND THERE WE HAVE IT!!

There is a market!! There are people who would buy this thing, even if they're not uber-fans waiting for the release day, they'd BUY it.

What estranges me therefore is that DISNEY is now where Music Industry was in the beginning of the 00s - something is a surprise hit, company is appy, and redoes the surprise hit to gain maximum success out of it. Cool, I'm fine with it. But we are talking ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPANIES OF THE WORLD HERE!!

So why they don't release and promote their older material for some extra cash (and a small amount of costs - we're not talking indie-filmproduction here, we're talking of the guys who do Disney World, own a very, very successful movie-production company and various comicmags!!) beats me!!

Rather than wait for the numbers, they should release things in bundles!! TWIN PEAKS and BATMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES did this, and they did quite good at that!!

So - really, why??
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 4:31:47 pm EDT from 84.191.236.90

BROOK> <<I also am a bit estranged by Disneys... politics...
Large company and profit and all - With huge size comes huge reponsibility. Disney seems to let their fans down, becase they'r waiting for instant profit rather than a long term sales profit.>>

Okay, by reading this, I get the feeling that you are very young. So, I'll try to explain this as best I can.

Just about all corporations work this way. All of them. Their first responsibility is to their profits and their stockholders. Disney is not a charity. Warner Bros is not a charity. Paramount is not a charity. They may have more money than you or I will ever see in our lifetimes, but that money is finite and they have to invest it in things that will make them a profit.

Disney is not brainwashing anyone. For whatever reason, Hannah Montana and High School Musical are big now. HUGE! The revenue they bring in is more than enough of a justification to produce more of it.

Whether we like it or not, "Gargoyles" has not brought in the type of revenue it needs that Disney feels it is profitable to invest more into. We can debate why, but that really doesn't help. That's the way it is. But throwing money at a product to make a very niche audience happy makes no sense on a financial level. I say this as a stockholder and as a man with a degree in producing.

And the way people talk as if it's just Disney that does this kind of grates on me. All of these studios are run by these conglomerates that all care about the bottom line and only the bottom line. Warner Bros, Paramount, Fox, Universal, they all run their companies with a bottom line in mind.

For example, take "Serenity." The fans of "Firefly" did everything they could to make that movie a success. They spread the word, they kept the candle burning. But, for whatever reason, it didn't bring in the revenue needed to green light a sequel. Again, we can all debate why, but it simply is.

Do I want more? Of course I do. I'm willing to fight to make sure we get more. But, in the end, it all comes down to the bottom line. If I ever ran a studio, and we had one of the highest quality properties in the world, but we lost money on it, I could not justify keeping it around.

In the mean time, listen to Demonskrye. She has the right idea.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 3:36:18 pm EDT from 66.214.184.152

Demonskrye> Thoughts:

In the medical world (the medical world that I'm involved in), the big thing right now is Wellness. It's so big that there is a new Wellness Department and Wellness events that happen all the time. There are e-mails going out all the time informing employees of walking events, cholesterol screenings, blood pressure checks, flu clinics, etc, etc, etc. To a standard human being, their well-being is very important to them and obviously Wellness is helping bring awareness to one's own well-being. But as an organization, we not only concerned on our employees, but we are concerned about our members, the people enrolled in the Health Plan that utilize our services. What's the next big thing? Drug Adherence -- making sure that if a member gets a 30 day supply with 2 refills, that they take all their drugs and get their refills. If they don't we need to know why.

The point is that Wellness will not be the focus forever. It's hot now, but it may dry out. Maybe Drug Adherence will be the hot button for a few months and something else might take its place. We don't know, but there are people that create trend reports and we can make predictions and projections based on that. And who makes the decisions based of the information we give them? Answer: The executives, the guys making the big bucks, the movers and the shakers.

Gargoyles had a great run, but like everything else in the business world, it didn't last forever. The focus shifted and the executives holding the cards made the best decisions available based off information that was given to them. Do I agree with their decisions, no, but I understand why they were made the way they were. Thankfully and surprisingly, we got Gargoyles in another medium many year later. And for now, that has also ended. So what happens next?

Well, I love Gargoyles so I'm going to buy the trades. I will continue to post at the message boards at the TheForce.net and G4TV as well as other places. I will continue to spread the word that these mediums are available for those interested. We can't create interest, just awareness. Like you said, it's not a cause, it's entertainment and I treat it as such. I hope that Greg Weisman continues to do what he does because he's great at what he does. And the world keeps on spinning.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 3:00:06 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

I still have a hard time believing the Disney Afternoon DVD releases haven't been profitable. DVDs make so much money these days that they dwarf ticket sales for feature films. With Lasseter killing Disney's direct-to-video market, they'll be looking to fill the dearth of home releases. Greg has mentioned how much executive turn-around was at Disney when he was there. When they get the right executive in to manage BVHE or whoever controls DVD releases these days, I think they'll take a look at Disney Afternoon again. It's just bureaucracy.

And as someone has mentioned before, we'll be swinging into a 90s nostalgia phase soon enough (just look at all the 80s remakes out right now). I think that the further we get from the Season 2, Volume 1 release date, the *greater* the chance of another release.

Demonskrye: "But picking up the trades is likely the only purchase that stands a chance of ensuring that we will get more "Gargoyles" stories in the future."

That's why I made the case for pushing SLG to make the trades bigger to give them a more prominent place on store shelves. Screw conformity. If the trades don't sell, they soon won't have anything to not conform with. I also don't like the idea of having unreleased content only available in that squished format.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 2:30:23 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Ozzie: Heh, Disney's too busy brainwashing children with Hannah Montana and High School Musical...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 2:04:23 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Guns: also,remember it was Elisa's gun that saved Broadway in the Price and Griff used Macbeth's gun in Pendragon...

Maggie and Talon's kid:yeah, Peter and Diane would be a good candidate for the kid's grandparent's.. thought if it got out that his parents are mutates and his aunt is in love with a gargoyle..bound to raise a few eyebrows..

Nick and Delilah.. I was under the impression of Samson and Delilah myself.. my Nick would make a good love triangle.. *props for Demonskyre for the Brooklyn theory*..
Starlioness
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 1:49:06 pm EDT from 24.18.243.70

@ Demonskrye: Post that over at IMDB on the Garg message board!! :D

I also am a bit estranged by Disneys... politics...
Large company and profit and all - With huge size comes huge reponsibility. Disney seems to let their fans down, becase they'r waiting for instant profit rather than a long term sales profit.
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 1:07:49 pm EDT from 84.191.196.48

I doubt we'll ever get anymore of the show on DVD. Since all of DIsney's TV box sets seem to be dieing. Darkwing Duck, the Tick, and various others have gone past the usual 1 year mark for another box set without so much as a new release date.

I'm just fed up with Disney, cause I don't see how these shows can be so unprofitable when He-Man, Thundercats, and various other shows have gotten complete releases from smaller companies. Heck they released all of Defenders of the Earth and I doubt most people even remember that.

We midaswell not talk about the no advertising thing because none of these shows really get advertised. They just rely on people noticing them. But I doubt Disney's idea to spread box sets a year apart helps, people who cared when the first box set came out might have lost interest after waiting for a year. Or maybe Disney is just lazy because they realize they can just make all their money off their jailbait cashcow.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 11:39:55 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

STATE OF THE FRANCHISE

(This is mostly just me thinking out loud about where "Gargoyles" is right now and where I think it's going. It'd certainly not intended to be anything definitive, so feel free to post your own thoughts on the matter.)

First of all, let me say that what we have already is pretty amazing. It has been twelve years since season two of the original TV show aired and eleven years since "The Goliath Chronicles" ended. The vast majority of animated shows from that time period have probably been forgotten and have virtually no chance of coming back in any form. In the space of the past few years, we have received two DVD box sets and comics featuring all new "Gargoyles" stories from Greg Weisman himself, among other bits of merchandise here and there. Two companies have now produced "Gargoyles" t-shirts and a Goliath statue appears to be in the works. We may not be the most well served fandom in the world by a long shot, but all things considered, we've been pretty fortunate. The fact that anything has happened with the property after over a decade has exceeded my personal expectations.

However, everything is not moonlight and moonbows. As a relatively small fandom, we should be and are grateful for whatever new "Gargoyles" product we can get. But this does not mean we don't have valid concerns about the state of "Gargoyles." The second half of season two on DVD has yet to be released and it does not look as though it will be anytime soon. We can gripe all we want about how much we disagree with Disney's policies of minimal advertising for the DVD releases and refusing to release the full second season if the first half didn't meet their sales goals, but it's not going to get us anywhere. Disney did not promote the DVD releases because they were told that there was a fan community that would do it for them. We have been told more than once that if Disney had thought that they had to spend a lot of money to advertise "Gargoyles" on DVD, they simply would have scrapped the whole DVD release. I'm not looking to rehash the past or assign blame here. What happened happened and there's no changing that. To me, the future of the DVDs is looking rather bleak. Anything is possible, but if current conditions continue, I don't see that we're on the path that ends with the DVD being released. At this point, I'm not sure that what Disney is looking for is Season Two Part One finally reaching its original sales target. Maybe they'll release the DVD if that happens, but maybe not. What would probably be better is a noticable upswing in sales of the DVDs, showing Disney that there is a renewed interest in "Gargoyles" and that a third box set might sell in the amounts they want much faster than the second box set did. But for that to happen, we're going to need a way to get a lot more people interested in "Gargoyles."

The comic met a somewhat premature end this year. We fans were understandably frustrated by the lengthy delays between issues - not just because we didn't like waiting for new material, but because it made the comic harder to promote when no one could accurately predict when the next issue would be out. Again, I am not looking to assign blame for the comic's problems in production and sales or its eventual cancellation. Comics is not an easy business and every stage of the process has its own particular challenges. In some ways, we are very lucky that the people involved in bringing the comic to us stuck with it as long as they did. And it's not over. We are again fortunate that SLG has decided to release trades which will include the unpublished issues of the comics. There is no shortage of comic books with continuig storylines which simply ended with plots unresolved, never to return again. It seems pretty clear that Greg has a very good relationship with Dan Vado and SLG, as Slave Labor is going to be publishing two original comics series written by Greg. And we have been told outright that Vado would like to try to renegotiate a deal with Disney to publish "Gargoyles" in grpahic novel form, IF it's going to be financially viable.

Which brings us to the future.

Greg has stated in a recent Ask Greg answer that what we need now is good sales on the upcoming trades. No one is prepared to do "Gargoyles" if they're going to lose money on it; not Disney, not SLG, not even Greg. So in order for Dan Vado to be able to approach Disney with a deal that will allow everyone to make a reasonable amount of money, we need to prove that "Gargoyles" trades and graphic novels are going to sell. I know that some of us have been considering the possibility of another publisher - possibly one owned by Disney - picking up the license. That's not beyond the realm of possibility and may be a viable option if SLG doesn't feel like they can do "Gargoyles" again. But if other publishers look at "Gargoyles" and see a low profile license with poor sales, they aren't going to bite. In the same Ask Greg answer, Greg says that he'll have a much easier time with Disney and SLG or any other publisher who might consider the license if the trades are selling well. The idea that Disney might reduce their licensing fees simply to make a little money off of "Gargoyles" instead of no money is a non-starter. We know that the licensing fees are not "free money" for Disney and if they don't think a property is going to turn a profit, they're perfectly happy to just shove it back in the vault and put their resources into something that will.

Right now, dollar for dollar, the first volume of "Clan Building" and the upcoming trades are probably the best investment you can make to help "Gargoyles." If you want to buy the DVDs, that's great. If you want to buy the shirts, go ahead. But picking up the trades is likely the only purchase that stands a chance of ensuring that we will get more "Gargoyles" stories in the future. As always, don't buy anything if you can't afford it or simply don't care. Food, shelter, and the well-being of yourself and your family should always take priority. And chances are, there are some other things in your life that are just more important to you than "Gargoyles." If you've been enjoying the comics and you want to see more in the future and it won't hurt you financially, buy the trades. We know they're coming, so if you start setting aside money now, you can improve the chances that you'll have the cash when they come out.

We do need to get more people interested in "Gargoyles," but to start with, we may want to look a little closer to home. I'm still very surprised that so many Gathering attendees weren't keeping up with the comic. If anyone is or knows one of the people who falls into this category, I would be very interested to hear why this was the case. (And I promise I won't get mad about it.) But again, I want to look to the future here. If you have a real reason for not buying the trade, that's fine. But no excuses. These will be available in bookstores and on Amazon without the wait Amazon had for the single issues. You don't have to track down a comic shop in your area and try to convince them to order "Gargoyles." If you can afford to travel to an annual "Gargoyles" convention, you can afford to pick up the trades.

I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating: If you try to get someone you know interested in "Gargoyles," don't make it all about "saving" the comic or the franchise or what have you. This isn't polar bears or a plant that could have mdeicinal properties or the rainforest. This is entertainment and entertainment is supposed to be fun. True, some of us are willing to put some work into keeping "Gargoyles" alive in various ways, but that's because we're already fans. No one wants to buy a comic they've never heard of or pick up a DVD of a show they may or may not remember from the 90s just so they can help "save" it. Keep it casual and keep it fun. It's a cartoon. It's a comic. It's not a cause.

I'm not going to make any promises that if every one of us does this, we'll get the graphic novels and Season Two Part Two will come out and Disney will start paying attention to the property and so on and so forth. Maybe all of this will happen. Maybe some of it will. Maybe none of it will happen and it will be another decade or more before we get any new "Gargoyles" stories. None of these outcomes are beyond the realm of possibility. But we do currently have an opportunity to at least try and help "Gargoyles" to have a future. And if you think that's worth some of your money, I hope you'll consider at least picking up the trades.

Thoughts?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 10:19:56 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Guns > Guns are a tool, like any other, and can be used for good or evil. In the hands of a responsible person, a gun is not an evil weapon. Which is why I've always been a little disappointed about the way guns are treated like some evil horrible thing by some of the characters. Like in Deadly Force and some other episodes, the way Broadway acts towards them (nevermind the fact that Elisa getting shot is all HIS fault, not the gun's fault), and in The Kingdom, when Talon says something like "From now on, all weapons are banished. In the labyrinth, justice prevails". Which suggests that weapons and justice are mutually exclusive, which is total hogwash. Which is why it makes me really happy when one of the "good guys" accepts a gun for what it is: a tool, neither inherently bad or good. I really liked that moment in #8 when Griff used a gun for a good purpose. That's a rare thing in Gargoyles, and I'd like to see it more often (and see less demonizing of guns). I don't want to see it TOO often, because it's not as cool as a gargoyle using his natural weapons to dispose of a foe, but I think it's still something we should see sometimes. I also liked that moment in Leader of the Pack when Lex blew a whole through Coyote, and some of the other moments when guns have been used constructively.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 9:55:26 am EDT from 76.165.36.226

@ Volpe: There are certain... ways to obtain these youtube videos... I bet if you take a closer look at versiontracker.com, youshould find something...
Brook
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 7:21:48 am EDT from 84.191.220.176

We're not about REAL Gargoyles here, and certainly not REAL buildings, so I'm affraid you're outta luck... try wikipedia... Sorry. :/
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 1:33:00 am EDT from 75.152.100.145

can anyone tell me where I can find some information about the gargoyles, eagles and faces on the building formerly known as PS 90 (public school) in Harlem, located in 147th & 148th sts?
mark m - [mark at curtisbuilding dot com]
posted @ Thu, Oct 16, 2008 12:06:46 am EDT from 68.42.222.196

Out of curiosity, why isn't there a Shari icon in here? Just wondering...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 10:18:20 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

volpe de fuego: I was kinda peeved when part 2 (or was it part 1) of Revelations was deleted off YouTube. And since I haven't been able to get the DVDs yet...

I wasn't too surprised ;)
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 10:17:22 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I know T_T I mean, I don't mind watching them on YT; I do it all the time. But it doesn't help when you wanna make music videos w/ scenes from later episodes.

I was watching "MIA" and had another question for the comment room. Was anyone the least bit surprised that Griff mentioned how those lightning guns would be useful fighting tools? After watching "Deadly Force" and getting used to seeing the Gargoyles (minus Demona) fight w/ just teamwork, tooth, claw and force, I was a bit surprised to see another one of the good guys pick up a dangerous weapon and actually contemplate using it.
VoLpE de FuEgO - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
too tired to type one T_T
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 9:36:18 pm EDT from 75.74.224.252

volpe de fuego: I've been looking for those for a while now, but I can't find a website. Darnit...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 9:14:43 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Does anyone know where I can download the remaining episodes that haven't been released on DvD yet? I'd really like to make another Gargoyles music video and I'd appreciate any help in getting the remaining Season 2 episodes in high quality, please ^^ I have every episode recorded on tape but not the required equipment to put them on DVD+R or my computer T_T Much appreciated!
VoLpE de FuEgO - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]
too tired to type one T_T
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 8:21:44 pm EDT from 75.74.224.252

Patrick> No beatdowns from me at least. I agree that uniformity is important in a series of books or DVDs or what have you and for the sake of more casual readers picking up all the trades, I'd prefer that they all stay the same size if a later full-sized reprint isn't an option. Like I said, I understand that part of the appeal of the smaller sized trade to publishers due to the likely reduced costs. (The bague connection to manga I find less understandable.) I just wish that publishers in general would understand that not all art reduces well and that the trades had been full-sized to begin with. But since that's not the case and I agree that visual continuity does help customers connect products that are part of a series, I do think the first printing should be at the smaller size. Which it probably will, regardless of my opinion.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 7:11:04 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

I miss the comics...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 6:04:45 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I guess I'm probably going to get beaten down for this, but I would rather see the trade paperbacks for Gargoyles 6-12 and Bad Guys 1-6 be the SAME SIZE as the one that's already out for uniformity's sake.

The one detail that still annoys me about the "Gargoyles" DVDs that were put out is that they didn't package the second one the same as the first. Consistency in presentation goes a long way toward helping someone realize as they're looking at a shelf that the products are parts of the same whole.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 5:59:13 pm EDT from 76.241.140.98

Landon> Here's the link to contact SLG to ask them if they'd be willing to do make the next TPBs the "correct" size.. http://www.slgcomic.com/Contact-Us_ep_5.html

Kathryn> It's always been my understanding that giving people little nicknames is an endearing quality, but sometime can have a demeaning or hurtful meaning depending how they are said. I always thought of Tony being sort of a Han Solo type of scoundrel and that he has always hit on Elisa. She is an intelligent attractive young cop. What's not to like, right? He may hate that she's a cop, but he can appreciate the power that she has and the respect that she commands.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 2:09:15 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

I don't know if it's just me, or if somebody else picked this up too---anyway, in the four episodes Tony Dracon appears in, he goes out his way to call Elisa Maza "Sugar", and when she lets him know she hates that, he goes out of his way to say her name. When he does that, I'm getting a distinct impression that he LIKES her! Could you really blame him? She is quite lovely, and she's not afraid of him, either. Anyway, again, in the episode "Protection", when he thinks she's gone bad, he basically starts courting her and taking her out on a date. "It's like our first date, Sug---um---Elisa." And when she encourages him to sit next to her, he thinks they're going to start cuddling, and he's all smiles! COME ON!!! Does Dracon have the secret hots for Elisa or not? It would make for quite an interesting scandal, wouldn't it? But who would it be a bigger scandal for, her or HIM? A criminal falling in love with a cop is right out of Romeo and Juliet---but it's also a big No-No!
Kathryn Sugg - [shewolfsiren at aim dot com]
Kathryn L. Sugg
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 1:34:41 pm EDT from 150.216.151.120

Taking deposits sounds like something that would open SLG up to litigation. And SLG would probably need to sell out their existing stock before they'd consider reprints.

But I think you're on the right track. It would be prudent to let SLG know that we want normal-sized trades for the Bad Guys: Redemption and Gargoyles: Clan Building #2. I mean I've never seen a trade as small as Clan Building #1. I have to admit that most of my trades are from DC or Marvel, but that's the problem. The Gargoyles trade looks tiny and insignificant in comparison. If we want to get Gargoyles out of the funk it's in now, it needs to catch the attention of people who don't read obscure comment rooms or watch Diamond shipping lists. It needs to have a visible and consistent spot on local comic store shelves. Regular releases will help but if the next two TPBs and, god forbid, the future graphic novels come out in that flip-book size, we might as well pack up and go home now. No one will notice them or they'll think they're nothing more than a kid's book.

In fact, now might be the time to complain. If what gets sent to Disney for approval is a proof of the final product, we'd want to bring it up with SLG before the art is done and everything gets assembled.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 11:51:03 am EDT from 128.101.32.234

Jorhan> Your assessment of the situation appears to be entirely correct, though I wish it weren't. I share your frustration on pretty much all fronts. I agree that on the one hand, it feels like we should be happy to be getting any new stories from a property that's over ten years old. But at the same time, what we ended up with turned out to be considerably less than what we were initially promised as problems kept mounting and delays grew longer and longer. And while I can understand a lot of what happened and that it was frequently beyond the control of the people trying to bring the comic to us, I can certainly see how fans are feeling a bit cheated. I generally buy trade paperbacks of comics I enjoy just because I like having them in a more "permanent" format. But for people who were only buying the single issues - especially if they did so because they had limited money to spend and believed that buying the single issues was the better way to use their money to support the comic - I can see how it's frustrating. Of course, it's completely out of SLG's control at this point; the license ended at th end of August and SLG legally can't print new single issue comics unless they renegotiate with Disney, which is unlikely to happen until SLG determines if doing the series solely as graphic novels is viable, as the licensing fee Disney wants currently is too high for SLG to afford.

I'm with you on wishing that the next trades could be printed full-sized, but sadly, I doubt that will happen. Smaller sized trades seem to be all the rage now, partly because manga is printed at that size and manga is popular, partly because it is likely less expensive to print smaller books. What publisher fail to relize is that very few American comics are drawn or lettered so that they remain legible when they're shrunk down. So you end up with comics that are pretty hard to read and something of a headache for people like me who don't have the best eyesight to begin with. If a bunch of people reading "Bad Guys #4" missed the tendrill of Matrix behind Sevarius in the full-sized artwork, what do you want to bet that no one will be able to see him when the page is significantly smaller?

Tony> It's possible that SLG would consider a larger format trade (maybe even with all 12 issues) in a limited run, but they would probably need a pretty significant number of preorders to make it worth their while. If they can't sell enough to put out a reasonably sized print run, cover their costs, and make a profit, they just won't be able to do it. And though SLG and Vado seem genuinely interested in trying again with "Gargoyles," there's still no guarantee that they would want to do a second version of the trades.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 11:50:20 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

What SLG should do is have a form on their website for those customers wishing for a larger version to fill out and put down a deposit down for it. I would pay more money for a larger version. I would pay money for a larger version of the 1st Gargoyles TPB.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 11:18:10 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Jorhan: I feel your pain. The last couple years have been an exercise in patience and frustration for Gargoyles fans. I too hope they don't skimp on the TPBs and print them at normal size.

You're right that there is a possibility of future Gargoyles graphic novels. If SLG can pull off that idea next year, I think it'll be much better for the property. Even if they only release 1 graphic novel per year, it'll be a big improvement, not just for fans but for sales too. #1 came out in June 2006. By June 2008, we only had about 12 total issues available, when you combine Gargoyles and Bad Guys. So we've only been getting 1 graphic novel-worth of content yearly anyway. By releasing all 6 issues at the same time, it'll be much more economical for SLG and we won't be depending on casual fans to keep such a close watch on the erratic release cycles so as not to miss an issue.

Gargoyles has been hemorrhaging sales since day 1 and I think graphic novels is the safest way to stem the bleeding.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 9:33:13 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

PS -- If I got any of my info wrong then I apologize!
Jorhan - [kuzco at hotmail dot com]
J
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 9:21:52 am EDT from 99.231.150.96

I'm sad that I bought all the Gargoyles and Gargoyles: Bad Guys comics so patiently over the last few years and now I'll only be able to get the last remaining issues in the TPB (According to Wikipedia anyway)... While I realise that as a fan of a show that spent a decade out of the public eye I should be happy the story has continued at all -- I am. I am very, very happy to see the Gargoyles again and am grateful the team behind it loves the characters so much. But at the same time it still sucks as a person who works hard for his money! I'll buy the TPBs but I won't be happy about owning doubles. I'm hoping you guys/SLG will consider printing them in their full comic book size - That would be good if it's at all feasable! It'd be a shame for that unseen artwork to be given the teensy tiny treatment. I don't mean to sound rude or anything here, I just needed to vent my frustrations -- and therapists are expensive. ;) I'm sure the team is frustrated too. It must suck to have such an amazing thing on your hands and it not get the full credit and recognition is deserves. I'm gonna end this on a positive note: Best of luck and thank you for the heart you put into bringing the Gargoyles back to life -- Here's hoping for those potential future TPBs of new stories (I heard that as a *possibility* somewhere too). XXOO
Jorhan - [kuzco at hotmail dot com]
J
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 9:07:24 am EDT from 99.231.150.96

Nick and Delilah?> This is just pure speculation on my part, but I kind of wonder if Nick might end up being the Brooklyn of 2198 in terms of looking for love in all the wrong places. Greg's descriptions of Nick seem to indicate that he's something of a gargoyle wanna-be, so falling for a gargoyle - especially one who is part human - might not be unthinkable for him. I can definitely see a kinship growing between them: he's a human who possibly feels more like a gargoyle trapped in a human body and she's a human-gargoyle hybrid who doesn't feel totally at home in either culture. But Delilah may not feel anything more than friendship towards Nick. She was raised as a gargoyle (and it's still unclear how exactly she still carries the stigma of being part human if her ancestor only had a few cosmetic traits from Elisa Maza) and even if she was starting to view Nick as more than a friend, she might well suppress those feelings for fear that choosing a human mate would only isolate her from her clan and her kind even more.

If this does turn out to be the case, unlikely as it may be, Nick could potentially serve as a lesson for Brooklyn on his way to becoming a more mature gargoyle in terms of his romantic life. He could observe Nick's less than successful attempts to court Delilah and think "Sheesh, is that what I looked like when I was going after Maggie?"

Labyrinth> I'm afraid I don't understand. Where is there a possible hint at a good guy being bad?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 7:52:56 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Well, I didn't know that Samson and Delilah were marked for couplehood. I thought it was still all open, and I thought I had picked up on something with Nick and Delilah's similar struggles, plus the "Three Musketeers" thing made me discount Samson. But I pretty much hinged my whole theory on that idea, so it's pretty loose now. I guess now there's no problem with Nick coming from BOTH the Maza adoptive and blood lines, and no issue of Nick and Delilah having any blood tie (though I still wondered why Greg mentioned it). I have to point out that Samson and Delilah are both descended from Demona, though.

About Maggie and Talon's kid -- I agree that voluntary adoption probably isn't tragic enough in the sense Greg was hinting at. I am betting that the kid is going to appear at least outwardly human, maybe with latent mutate abilities, like strength or lightning under duress. In that case I did imagine that Peter and Dianne would step in as grandparents and help raise the child above ground -- become his/her parents for legal purposes and show up to PTA meetings.

Anyway, I just wanted to get my thoughts out in writing, since I knew you guys would correct me where I went wrong. Thanks for indulging me.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Wed, Oct 15, 2008 12:19:44 am EDT from 69.112.108.43

dragonheart05: Say what now?
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 10:57:19 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Hi, Welcome to Teen's Comment Zamboanga
dragonheart05 - [free_03stone at yahoo dot com dot ph]
couples
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 10:34:15 pm EDT from 203.131.134.214

Supermorff: You were right :) Thanks for the correction! I have no idea why I thought it was protagonist though...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 10:19:40 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

You are.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 10:19:01 pm EDT from 70.230.150.190

Supermorff: I dunno, I always thought it was Protagonist, but I could be wrong.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 9:41:49 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Fair enough. Of course, it is quite difficult to assign motivations to characters we hardly know. Who knows? Well, Greg, but he ain't saying.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 9:07:00 pm EDT from 70.230.150.190

Matt> Regarding Demona and Zafiro: That's certainly one reason they're on Nokkar's team (Greg has more or less said as much), but it's not necessarily the ONLY reason each of them chose to go. Just saying.
Supermorff
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 9:03:19 pm EDT from 64.136.26.225

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add that I think the big reason Demona and Zafiro are the ones that head out into space is because of their ability to avoid stone sleep. Zafiro might feel like a third wheel, but I imagine the main reason he goes is out of a sense of duty. He has this ability that Samson and Delilah don't, he should use it to greatest affect.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 8:57:54 pm EDT from 70.230.150.190

I think there is some confusion going on here. To my knowledge, the possibility of a romance between Nick and Delilah in 2198 has never been brought up by anyone before today. Delilah seems to be the romantic interest of Samson and Greg has said that there exists only one other human-gargoyle couple (besides Goliath and Elisa) in all of history and it unlikely to be these two. So, I would think it is safe to say that Nick and Delilah will not pair up. Of course, Delilah is still distantly related to Samson, but so much so as to not be an issue and besides they wouldn't know it. Clearly the pheromonal signals have not dissuaded them from liking each other.

Another thing to remember is that Greg has said that the Haida people of Queen Florence Island have had good relations with the Gargoyle Nation for some time.

Anyway, it is always good to check the facts, check the archives and check the GarWiki before writing up a bunch of theories that lead the CR into a day of confusion.

I do gotta say though that I like both the Chavez's daughter and the Talon/Maggie's human kid ideas as possibilities for the adopted kid of Goliath and Elisa. It'd also be cool if it was an enemies child or something.

Oh, and count me in as one of those who thinks that all the world heroes are being awakened by Avalon (through the World Travelers) to combat the return of Queen Mab. Certainly, if Raven or Anansi or Banshee choose to side with Mab, Natsilane, Rory Dugan and the were-panthers could be of great help for instance.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 8:55:54 pm EDT from 70.230.150.190

Supermoff > I'd say that's a reasonable prediction. It's sorta like how Brooklyn tried to stay in Manhattan in #7 to avoid being around Broadway and Angela, though his plan backfired.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 8:53:54 pm EDT from 76.165.36.173

Landon Thomas> Actually, Greg's already revealed that his preferred voice actor for Quincy Hemings wuld be Morgan Freeman. I suspect that Greg would be more willing to say who he imagined as a character's voice if that actor was either a huge HUGE star with a distinctive voice (Morgan Freeman), or someone with whom Greg had worked in the past (like Alan Cumming).

lonerider> I think you mean ANTagonist ("enemy"), not PROTagonist ("hero"). I could be wrong.

Rebel> Regarding the Samson/Delilah/Zafiro relationship, do you think that might be one of the reasons Zafiro heads off into space with Nokkar later in the series? Because he feels like a third wheel, I mean?
Supermorff
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 8:52:12 pm EDT from 64.136.26.225

Todd: Yup, Cumming was also one of the celebrity hockey players. I'm glad Greg finally relented. Who knows how Greg and Thomason would direct Cumming, but I think Greg's selection reveals a lot about Amp's personality. We'll have to remember to ask about Hemings, Shari, and Coco when we can submit questions again.

Demonskrye: Regarding a voice actors knowing they weren't the first choice, Billy West can't do an interview without ranting about celebrities taking jobs and doing crappy VOs in animated features. Voice actors are used to being treated like craftsmen rather than artists. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Most don't have the ego to care about being 2nd choice.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 8:28:44 pm EDT from 128.101.32.234

Brook: Al? Bad? He's just an innocent old man showing a newcomer around. Shari's the main protagonist there, as well as the occasional Sevarius undercover.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:58:39 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Is this the same Alan Cumming who did the voice of Jon Canmore?

(He also currently hosts Masterpiece Mystery on PBS.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:47:35 pm EDT from 4.244.214.63

I don't figure why - it is very likely we'll see more of the Gargverse in the next 2 years or so.

Labyrinth... hint at a good guy being bad???????
Brook
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:07:00 pm EDT from 84.191.242.241

Brook: "And that with the labyrinth... HMMMMMMMMMM..."

HMMMM... Indeed.

Greg's been revealing quite a lot lately. I wonder what he'll reveal next...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:05:55 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Greg's not a misleader - all that he has hinted at became true so far.

That startled me though...
Brook
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:01:44 pm EDT from 84.191.242.241

Rebel: Your welcome.

I always thought that Zafiro might have a crush on another female, perhaps one from his own rookery. Or at least someone in that age group.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:01:40 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Greg's in a damn crazy state right now - he's revealing SO much!! :D And so much usedul stuff to.

I'm surprised at the Alan Cumming comment too - usually, Greg allways held back these kinda wishes...
I'm also surprised bout it being Cumming, who is bisexual. That doesn't mean a lot, yet can add to what we're guessing.

I forgot about Taro... hmm....

And that with the labyrinth... HMMMMMMMMMM...
Brook
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:00:45 pm EDT from 84.191.242.241

Also, I wonder how Zafiro will fit into all of this. If the three of them have a close bond, he will probably end up feeling like a third wheel if Samson and Delilah become mates, which is kinda sad. For all we know, he might like Delilah as well, which would be very sad for him.
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 5:35:38 pm EDT from 76.165.36.173

Thanks, lonerider.

Also, that "Are you sure Oberon is still alive?" comment is a little surprising. It could just be Greg misleading us, but it's very possibly that Oberon is dead by 2198 (killed by Mab, maybe?).
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 5:33:57 pm EDT from 76.165.36.173

Rebel: Found it
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=2193
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 5:31:39 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Rebel> I agree. It seems pretty obvious that Samson and Delilah are pretty much paired up - Greg himself has stated that (at the onset of 2198) Samson likes Delilah and Delilah likes Samson, although they are not yet fully mated. One could probably find a reference for that with very little effort.
Supermorff
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 5:26:30 pm EDT from 64.136.26.225

Rebel: That's what I thought too...

Brooke: Al is a homeless person, sort of like Talon's second in command. He's the one who gave Shari a grand tour of the Labaryinth the day Thailog attacked.

Taro is the one who created the Gargoyles Theme park in Ishimura. It, of course, backfired, with the help from Elisa, Goliath and Angela. Yama also helped.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 5:04:25 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Wait, Nick Maza and Delilah might fall in love? Isn't Nick pretty much all human? I know that there is going to be one other major gargoyle-human romance in the Gargoyles Universe, besides Elisa and Goliath, but I always thought Delilah was supposed to end up with Samson?
Rebel
GOLIATH: I SHOULD SAY SOMETHING SHAKESPEAREAN NOW.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 4:58:07 pm EDT from 76.165.36.173

bluewyveryn: I always thought that (maybe) Elisa and Goliath would adopt an orphaned child from the Labyrinth. Most likely through the means of the parents dying (or abandoning the child), but leaving the baby outside the Labyrinth door before they go. Then most likely, Elisa and Goliath would take him/her in, and raise him/her as their own. The child would grow up, and then meet the son/daughter of Natsilane and another woman from his tribe. They'd eventually fall in love, and the rest is history...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 4:22:24 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Wait a min, according to this weeks comments http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/comment/archive/index.php?archive_date=2008-09-01 i thought we had confirmed that greg had not confirmed that goliath and elisa had addopted. Likely to happen yes but not yet confirmed, barely cannon-int-training isnt it?
RandomStan
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 4:20:24 pm EDT from 209.243.35.199

At this point I don't think Greg is worried about insulting anyone when searching for a voice actor since the Gargoyles medium is currently on an indefinite hiatus.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 1:34:10 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Brook> Ah, thanks for pointing that out. It's so hard to keep all the Ask Greg revelations straight. Speaking of which...

Ask Greg Revelations for today> Terry and Tri Chung are first cousins.

Sevarius's lab in "Louse" was part of the old Cyberbiotics complex and is also part of the labyrinth.

Greg apparently would like Alan Cumming to play Staghart/Amp. I'm very surprised that he revealed this, since as he's mentioned himself, it can be somewhat dangerous to publicly state who you're looking at for a role, find you can't get that actor, and then have to approach other actors who will consequently know they weren't your first choice.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 1:27:15 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

"Of course, this could just be a big fake out in that Nick may not be descended from Goliath and Elisa's kid at all."

Nope - Greg stated that they are related!!
Brook
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 12:28:09 pm EDT from 84.191.203.126

Nicholas Natsilane Maza> Way back when, my thinking was that Nick was descended from Natsilane and Beth Maza and that Goliath and Elisa would be "parents" only in the sense that they would be highly involved in raising the children of the Manhattan clan. But now it seems that Goliath and Elisa will probably be adopting a child. And if Greg is acting kind of uncertain (and not merely elusive) about Beth's romantic future, I would have to guess that she's no going to end up with Natsilane, as it seems like Greg has more definite plans for him. (Incidentally, I don't know that Beth and Natsilane marrying would necessarily end that branch of the Maza line. I know I don't have the slightest idea of how the Haida people determine surnames and trace ancestry. Or they could just decide to give their child the last nae of "Maza".)

A few thoughts:

Though I enjoy the idea of Derek and Maggie having a human child and the parallels with "Futurama," this seems an unlikely scenario to me. If we know for certain that Goliath and Elisa adopted the child due to urgent and "tragic" circumstances, then Derek and Maggie simply wanting their kid to live somewhere toher than the Labyrinth seems way too mild. Unlike in "Futurama," where Leela's parents believed that it really would be best if even she didn't know her true parentage so that she could avoid the stigma that came with being a mutant, there really wouldn't be any reason for Derek and Maggie's child not to know who his or her real parents are and even visit them frequently. Plus, assuming a regular nine-month gestation period for Maggie, their child will be born in a time when being raised by a human and a gargoyle as part of a gargoyle clan is probably an even worse option than being raised in a subterranian complex by two formerly human mutates among a largely human population. If the child's parents were ever called on to appear, Derek and Maggie could simply send two human denizens of the Labyrinth in their place or draft Peter and Diane into claiming that they're raising the kid as his/her grandparents.

The biggest prblem with the idea that Nick traces his Maza roots back to Beth is that somewhere along the way, you would have two humans who were raised as relatives getting married. It's true that they wouldn't be actual blood relations, but it would still be kind of odd and something that human society would generally frown on. Even if it wasn't as near in the future as Goliath and Elisa's child marrying Beth's child, it seems like future generations would have even less reason to consider the fact that Elisa's kid was not biologically related to her.

I still like the idea that the child is Natsilane and Beth's biological offspring, as it takes care of both the Maza and Natsilane ancestry for Nick in one generation without anyone marrying a technical relative. Of course, it would mean that something bad would have to happen to Beth or Natsilane or, most likely, both of them. Speaking of which, if Natsilane is the father of the child Goliath and Elisa adopt, I wouldn't be expecting that to happen anytime soon. Greg has hinted that the frequent "hero activation" of the World Tour may have some sort of overarching purpose, possibly something so big and so world-threatening that the world needs all the heroes it can get and soon. So I'm guessing Natsilane will be sticking around at least for that.

Of course, this could just be a big fake out in that Nick may not be descended from Goliath and Elisa's kid at all. Though if that were true, it would beg the question of where the descendants of Goliath and Elisa's child are during the events of 2198.

Nick is born in 2181. Any of our more math literate members want to take a stab at figuring out how many generations removed from Natsilane he might be?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 12:12:53 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Apropos of nothing, I'd like to indulge in a lengthy rumination on the subject of 2198. Ready?

I've been wracking my brains lately over the subject of Nick Maza's parentage. All sorts of possibilities occurred to me. First, it seems clear that Nick descends from a child Goliath and Elisa adopted following a "tragedy", presumably the death of the child's parents. I see two possibilities (each with its sub-possibilities, I suppose):

1. The child of strangers we haven't been introduced to, or maybe even marginal characters we have already met. (Chavez's daughter? Policing is a dangerous job, and it would bring one more facet of Future Tense into reality. Oooh.)

2. A Maza child. Could be Derek and Maggie's child, born human and given to Elisa to raise in the light of day rather than in the dark underground with mutates and misfits. In that case "tragedy" could be the necessity of sending the child away (anyone else thinking Leela from Futurama?), and the "serendipity" could be the fact that Elisa is there to accept it. Or it could be something harsher, like the death of Maggie (in childbirth? Is Gargoyles dark enough for that these days?), Derek, or both.

Or it could be Beth's child. Greg has seemed unsure about her relationship status in the present and future, but it's not inconceivable that she could meet someone, start a family, and then meet a tragic end, leaving her child to Elisa and Goliath. Lots of dramatic potential.

I started wondering if that could be where Natsilane comes into the family tree. He and Beth would actually seem to be a pretty good match if they ever met. About the same age, both academic types, now both with a very particular interest in their respective traditions and folklore. They'd have a lot to talk about.

I don't think Nick Maza could come from them directly, though. For one thing, the Maza name would likely end there with Beth (what is Natsilane's last name, anyway? Does he have one? Or does he just have a single name? In which case I guess he might take the name Maza). For another, hints seem to indicate that Nick's ancestor was adopted, almost certainly by Goliath and Elisa -- which *would* result in passing the Maza name on. It would also make it more likely for the eventual product of that line, Nick Maza, to be raised as a gargoyle, as he would then be subsumed into Goliath's clan. So if the ancestor is a natural child of Beth and Natsilane, then something tragic probably happened to them and resulted in the adoption. I liked that idea best -- until today.

Today I was reflecting on Delilah (2198) and Nick Maza, and how they certainly seem to be being set up for an eventual romantic pairing. They both have the torn-between-two-worlds thing going on, with Nick being a human raised gargoyle and Delilah feeling insecure about her human blood. And Delilah is described as being in a trio-like relationship with Samson and Zafiro, which makes them both less likely as potential mates, but Nick doesn't seem to have that familiar sibling relationship with her. Greg specifically brought up Nick's distant relationship to Delilah, which raised a few eyebrows. Is family relation going to become an issue with them? Do we have a Luke/Leia thing going on here?

If Nick is a blood Maza, i.e. a biological child of Derek or Beth, then Nick and Delilah share Dianne and Peter as common however-many-great grandparents. If his only tie to the Mazas is an adoptive relationship with Elisa, though, then there's no blood relation. While I like the Derek/Beth tragedy adoption idea, I'm starting to lean away from it. (Chavez is actually the current favorite). While on the one hand it would seem strange for communally-raised gargoyles to obsess about matters of parentage and incest (and when you think about it, the small clan has got to be getting pretty inbred -- Hudson, Goliath, Demona, Broadway and Angela have got to be common ancestors of just about every 'goyle we know via Broadway and Angela's prolific line), on the other hand, Greg did bring it up first. I'm starting to wonder if it's some kind of strange *reverse* Luke/Leia where Delilah and Nick are attracted to one another, then think they're related, then realize they're not because Nick's Maza ancestor was adopted. But even if that's not a plot point, I think the hint of an incestuous tie is reason enough for Nick's Maza ancestor to be an outside adoption anyway, just for the sake of the story and everyone's comfort.

So where does the Natsilane line come in? I think right before Nick. I think Nick's father is a Maza (from a line of Maza sons, to keep the name in circulation, I guess) and his mother is a Natsilane, descended from the Natsilane we know but not, most likely, Beth (shame! I still think they would have been a great match). There's one more reason to think that the Maza and Natsilane families would have mingled only recently -- because Queen Florence Island only just became really important again, with the founding of the new clan and the gathering of the eggs. The Mazas, who are surely important in global gargoyle affairs, and Natsilanes, who are important in Queen Florence affairs, would have come into close contact while all that was going on. Of course, the obverse is also possible -- that Queen Florence Island was chosen as the location for the new clan because it was "on the radar", because the Mazas and Natsilanes had already merged a generation or two back.

So what has all this led me to? Okay, best predictions. I think Chavez is going to die in the line of duty, and Goliath and Elisa will adopt her daughter. That girl will be the whatever-grandmother of Somebody Maza, who will meet Someone Natsilane while poking around Queen Florence Island, marry her, and produce Nick Maza. Nick Maza bond with Delilah 2198 over their mutual hybrid natures, and once they both get over their various insecurities, they'll fall in lurve. (I've just realized that Nick will be on the "space team" and Delilah will be on the "Earth team" -- I thought they were in the same group, but no matter. One more obstacle to overcome.)

So. Thoughts? Am I crazy? Prophetic? A butcher of finely-crafted storylines? Greg Weisman incarnate? I'd love to hear your reactions.
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 11:01:09 am EDT from 69.112.108.43

HEY EVERYONE IN CANADA (AND THE USA TOO, IN A FEW WEEKS.)

TODAY IS ELECTION DAY... IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU GET OUT O VOTE!!! ITONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES TO VOTE (IF YOU LIVE CLOSE TO YOUR POLLING STATION) AND IT`LL GIVE YOU THE SATISFACTION OF KNOWING YOU VOTES. PLUS, YOU CAN CRITICIZE THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS!!!

GO VOTE!!! EVEN IF YOUR CANDIDATE LOOSES, YOU EXCERCIZED YOUR RIGHT AND YOUJ CAN FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF!

NO EXCUSES!!! JUST GO VOTE!!!
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 10:49:24 am EDT from 75.152.236.72

Happy Belated Thanksgiving, Everyone!!!
Battle beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 10:47:03 am EDT from 75.152.236.72

Demonskrye> Thanks. 26 years old now.

Think I wanna go get drunk.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 9:52:31 am EDT from 99.168.79.19

Todd> I'm sure that, given enough time, Greg could find a way to incorporate pretty much anything into "Gargoyles" if he wanted to. I think all that the scene would really require would be for either Elisa or Jason to have a reason to be thinking about the other, prompting a flashback to that scene. It's not a top priority for me to see that scene done officially, but it would be nice.

KingCobra> Happy Birthday!
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 9:03:24 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Today is the Hunter's Moon.

I've sometimes wondered whether, if Greg gets to write more graphic novels for "Gargoyles", he might find a way of incorporating the lost scene between Elisa and Jason at the clock tower in one of them - since he's already included other concepts that didn't make it into the original series (Coco and Amp's names, and the Parisian catacombs scene).
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 8:29:46 am EDT from 4.244.215.9

*laughs and thanks all for the birthday wishes*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 7:23:35 am EDT from 99.168.79.19

Brook> Easiest thing to do if you don't know who they are is to look them up on GargWiki.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 7:23:23 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Happy birthday, KingCobra.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:51:12 am EDT from 68.190.20.172

GUYS - WAIT!! Who do you reffer to as All and Taro??

I'm lame, yup... :(
Brook
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 6:49:20 am EDT from 84.191.228.219

Happy birthday, KingCobra!
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 2:01:40 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

Tangent: Just taking a look at the night sky reminded me that this year's Hunter's Moon is almost (if not already) here :)

Spen -- I was wondering if my post would generate a response like that ;D
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Oct 14, 2008 1:33:10 am EDT from 157.242.212.113

Rebel: Interesting concepts.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 9:47:15 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

In regards to the relatively recent Space-Spawn conjecture >

I too imagine that the Space-Spawn will be non-humanoid.

Also, I believe that their reproductive strategies will be completely different than what humans and gargoyles use. Speaking in vast generalities here, humans will usually have only a few offspring, but will invest a lot of effort into getting them to adulthood, whereas some other animals will have a multitude of offspring, and adopt a "hands-off" approach to their upbringing...they will invest little in bringing their offspring up, but because they have so many, it is likely that at least a few will survive to adulthood. And of course, there are other strategies, such as strategies in between these two extremes.

I imagine that the Space-Spawn, simply by virtue of having "Spawn" in their name, will be a species that evolved to produce lots of offspring, and devoted little effort to parenting them. But since the Space-Spawn are an advanced species, there are probably less of them dying of natural causes nowadays...so they probably have to resort to some unsavory means to keep their population manageable. Thus, by virtue of having SO MANY CHILDREN, maybe they have been forced to have much less respect for individual lives. Maybe that is why they try to conquer other planets--so that their population can increase without them having to worry about thinning their ranks. They might even reproduce by meiosis, for all we know. That would be pretty cool.

Of course, this presumes they even need a planet to survive. Given the Space-Spawn's origins (coming from a supernova) they may not even need a planet.

This is all purely wild conjecture, of course. We really have very little information to determine what the Space-Spawn are like.


I imagine that the N'Kai, by virtue of having such LOOONG lifespans, probably rarely reproduce at all. After all, if you have a population that takes so long to die, you can't be making new people all the time. So, maybe they have a very great respect for life because of the rarity of having new babies and because of the tragedy of losing an individual who is thousands of years old.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 9:32:39 pm EDT from 76.165.34.212

Ozzie> "Oh? Hope you have a nice birthday KingCobra."

Thanks.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 8:11:33 pm EDT from 68.75.27.201

Todd: unless Tasha despite being an armadillo is reference to the Aardvark pitch.. though Al being Mutated would be cool too..

thinking about Thailog's samples and the armored mutates makes me think of the Talon and Thailog clones in future tense.. and the quote by Puck-as-Brooklyn bout Sevarius turning the last free humans to mutates..
starlioness
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 7:38:32 pm EDT from 24.18.243.70

Todd: I've been wondering that for some time now. My two guesses were always Thailog and Taro. And since the Thailog theory has been debunked, I'm not too sure...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 7:29:13 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

I do wonder whom Sevarius was working for in "Louse". Whoever it was probably didn't have any problems with a lot of people being mutated in public, in the middle of a big media event like the ball dropping in Time Square (you'd think that mutating a few homeless people in secret would be a much better idea, to keep your activities secret).

It looks as if my earlier speculation that Greg still might make use of the anthropomorphic aardvark idea, after Coco and Amp's names and the Paris catacombs flashback, isn't so improbable.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 7:22:42 pm EDT from 4.244.208.158

Matt: It looks like the Labyrinth labs to me, but, it could be a part of Nightstone we've never seen before. It's a pretty big building... It also could be in Gen-U-Tech, but that's highly unlikely...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 7:12:53 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

When I first read "Louse" I remember my impression was that the "armored mutate" scheme was ordered through Sevarius from some new character we don't know about. We still don't know if it is a new person, but I'm glad to see that my instincts that this was seperate from Thailog's plans was correct. My other first impression was that the Angela DNA came from "Monsters", not "Bash", and I'm glad I was right there too. The Bash samples are Thailog's, afterall. And if Sevarius was working for Thailog, wouldn't he be in the Nighstone labs instead of in the Labyrinth labs? Incidently, do you suppose the lab Sevarius uses in "Louse" is the same lab we see Sevarius locked up in in "The Cage"? Something to ask Greg.

As for the aardvark/armadillo thing. I actually knew it was an armidillo, but for some reason kept typing aardvark. Oh well, at least my typo got Greg to reveal that the aardvark thing was for someone else. Unless he was just joking.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 6:30:18 pm EDT from 70.230.150.190

Demonskrye: I dunno, I always thought Al was the next one to be mutated. It's such a logical step... But, I could see Owen as an aardvark.
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 5:53:39 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

lonerider> Based on Greg's response and the comedy development, I'm guessing we'll be seeing an aardvark in the series that either has some connection to Owen or in fact IS Owen. (Or maybe Vogel will get turned into an aardvark.)
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 5:09:53 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

*sigh* And here...
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10953
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 4:42:54 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Oh, and this too. Angela's sample was from Monsters...
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10956
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 4:17:31 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Well looky here at this: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10957

Interesting reply...
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 4:16:23 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Ha ha, I saw that on devArt. Funny ;)
lonerider26 - [<--That's my devArt gallery :)]
"The story is told--though who can say if it be true..." ~Shari
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 4:14:58 pm EDT from 71.239.117.121

Asatira> Thanks for sharing. Didn't know that site existed and there were some good ones on there.
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Tony Tini
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 1:24:04 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

I laughed at that. I love looking at LilFormers every week, love the Transformers ones. I'm glad he finally done a Gargoyle one and hoping for more.
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 1:06:16 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

For a quick little laugh, I bring you this Li'l Formers comic. http://www.lilformers.com/ I've been waiting for him to get for this since he expanded his subjects.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 12:03:59 pm EDT from 68.190.20.172

Oh? Hope you have a nice birthday KingCobra.

Sort of off topic but I'm extremely happy at the moment. Because inspite of it looking like I'll never get to complete my Gargoyles, Darkwing Duck, or the Tick collections. A game I never thought would actually get added to the Wii's Virtual Console finally did. Square Enix finally put Secret of Mana on the Virtual Console instead of holding it back for a potential remake.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 8:55:46 am EDT from 69.14.122.91

10th in the name of turning 26 tomorrow.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 7:19:00 am EDT from 68.75.27.201

9th in the name of making the countdown(up?) because I got up early...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 6:39:18 am EDT from 70.230.150.190

Eighth in the name of... anarchy?
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Do you wanna know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the... little... emotions. In... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?" -The Joker
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 6:27:12 am EDT from 24.125.223.13

7th thought I missed the countdown due to getting up late
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 6:16:55 am EDT from 64.12.117.134

Phoenician : You have no idea how old I feel when I see a comment like that. :)
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 4:18:55 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

Sixth in honor of Disney's Aladdin . . . simply put, it's the first film I ever saw in theaters :)
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 3:30:00 am EDT from 157.242.214.252

Fifth in honor of The Big Lebowski, because I had a slice of pizza last night called "the Dude".
bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 2:46:05 am EDT from 69.112.108.43

I'll post in honor of "Casablanca". No more needs to be said.
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 1:09:27 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

In honor of the campy goodness that is Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. God bless the 80's!
Ricky
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 12:50:59 am EDT from 141.149.46.18

This post is in honor of "The Godfather," which I now own the Coppola Restoration on Blu-Ray.

I'm going to make a post you can't refuse.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Oh Lord, please help our athletes bring home the gold. Enough gold so we can melt it down and buy back our economy from the Chinese."
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 12:47:37 am EDT from 66.214.184.152

This comment is in honor of Stardust, the movie I just finished watching with my friends. I had forgotten how much I loved this movie!

Post in honor of your favorite film ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Mon, Oct 13, 2008 12:05:58 am EDT from 209.243.38.9