Regarding the Arkham Knight until recently I thought that was the better story of how it done, although that's a low bar considering what we know now, and the Earth 16 is the best way to go in my opinion.

And yeah although I like Spider Gwen a lot, the death of Gwen Stacy was really well done, like Uncle Ben, and the Waynes but of course the publishers find a way to ruin anything given time. And come to think it of it wasn't Major Force created by Greg Weisman? Has anyone everyone every asked about that incident or is that an unspoken rule I just broke? Sorry in advance but I always thought it was odd that he was in a Green Lantern story.

And I love the internet, I was always curious about the new member of the pack and lo and behold a plausible candidate who I never thought of came up. Speaking of has does anyone have an idea about what was the cause of that unnamed terrorist in City of Stone was? I was thinking something along the lines of a free Kurdistan or environmentalist agenda.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Sun, Apr 10, 2022 9:03:57 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Alex> I'd argue that it's less of nerds love violence and more like writers being lazy when writing drama and/or relationships. One of the earliest (and in my opinion, best use) of the Women in Refrigerators, was "The Night Gwen Stacy Died." And that mostly because it created a huge shift not just in Spider-Man but comics as a whole. And it didn't just give Peter something to angst about, but had a huge emotional impact in the rest of his cast. Harry started his slide from antagonistic towards Spider-Man, Jameson upped his smear campaign to the point Peter nearly broke, and more importantly Mary Jane opened up about her own trauma and grew beyond her party girl image.

It's like writers took the wrong lesson from it. Instead of death of a friend or loved one being a huge impact to those who remain, they instead treat it as a, "What can we do to get our hero to brood about something for a while? Let's kill off the love interest!" Or worse, they kill off a character because they can't think of anything more to do with them.

Now as for the new pack, we've already covered most of the more iconic canines so you'd have to go for the more obscure Dhole or African Painted Dog.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sun, Apr 10, 2022 5:19:41 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

We don 't know for certain who the new member of the Ultra-Pack will be, but the Tasmanian Tiger at the start of "Bad Guys" seems like a clear candidate.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sun, Apr 10, 2022 2:35:47 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

The reason they include the woman in the refrigerator story is the same reason Arkham Knight spent like a ton of it's run time adapting Death in the Family AND the Barbara Gordon part of the Killing Joke. (Which was ridiculous IMO)

Comic nerds like violence. :P

The fourth Green Lantern could be Jessica Cruz. Who was in Justice League vs. the Fatal Five (which incidentally was a REALLY good DC Direct to Video if anyone wants to watch a really good DC animated movie).
Alex (or Aldrius)
posted @ Sun, Apr 10, 2022 12:55:02 pm EDT from 65.95.86.37

Does anyone know who will be the new member of the Ultra-Pack? I mean canine-wise.
Anonymous
posted @ Sun, Apr 10, 2022 11:34:56 am EDT from 188.240.57.118

No need to apologize, we cover all kinds of things here. And even though we don't often cover politics (because the can of worms that opens) that doesn't mean we shove away healthy discourse.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sun, Apr 10, 2022 7:16:40 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

Yeah I am sorry about getting sidetracked in political discussions I will try from now on to stick to the superhero side of things life is too stressful as it is right now.

And as for the fourth Green Lantern while it could be Alan Scott I believe there was supposed to be a Green Lantern trainees story in the YJ comics which was Kyle Rayner was apart of. I hope they do him justice and not have his girlfriend who started the Women in Refrigerator trope, I mean seriously every story included the reboot featured that story because... I have no clue why.

And the ending of the arc was very good and I look forward to the next one which I am calling as Rocket's due to the Fourth World in the midseason trailer.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Sun, Apr 10, 2022 1:44:20 am EDT from 72.95.140.30

JURGAN - It might have been worse. You could have wished for "Gargoyles" to return, only for its revival to be even worse than the "Goliath chronicles", and then have to wish for that wish to be undone.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 9:55:48 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

Hey, don't worry about it Jurgan. Trolls have only ever been a small fraction of the posts here.

The business spam shows up more frequently on the other hand.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 4:29:38 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Folks, I have a confession to make. Last week, I found a monkey's paw and wished that the comment room would be more active. I'm so sorry.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com']
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 4:12:02 pm EDT from 98.48.118.192

Since the League is said to have "four Green Lanterns and two Flashes," my assumption (until or unless the show proves otherwise) is indeed that they're talking about Alan and Jay.

It'd be reasonable for Jefferson's reforms to include offering the living JSA alums a sort of "honorary membership" or some equivalent. Even if they're not actively going on missions, it gives them a seat at the table for discussions and votes of import.

Aldrius: My reading is that [SPOILER] Psy-Backs can only "write" to the same PHYSICAL brain their engrams were pulled from, which seems a reasonable restriction to place from a "sci-fi mumbo-jumbo logic" perspective to keep the Light from just, say, cloning an army of Supermen with Lex Luthor's brain in them. So the Arion clone got a transplant of the dead Orm's brain (we know from Brain and Humanite themselves that they have the tech for that) and the Orm clone would of course also have the same physical grey matter, allowing both to get Orm's Psy-Back data. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"My mission is to make everyone happy by singing." - Vivy
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 3:28:19 pm EDT from 98.150.138.224

No, that's not me. I have no idea why I would say something like that.

Thanks Matthew for letting me know about the brain transplant stuff. That's... weird. Kinda wish that had been a little clearer, but maybe I was just being inattentive.

[SPOILER] Okay, might as well talk about this arc now.

I liked it a lot. I had a few quibbles, but I liked it a lot. I think this show can tend to take things for granted a little too much. Like there<'s a lot in this story that's predicated on Orin's backstory and knowing it, and while there's enough little dialogue queues to understand the relationships it makes it harder to get invested in the stakes. Like if I'm spending time figuring out the plot, it makes it harder to get invested in the drama as it were.

But I do like things like them making more clones to sort of perpetuate their schemes, I actually completely forgot Arion was dead somehow. Also that ending with Vandal Savage was really cool. Watching Savage lose it was a nice change of pace. Especially considering how many times Vandal's gotten those "Xanatos tag"-style endings where everything goes his way. Increasingly it seems like things aren't necessarily going his way.

I liked seeing the return of a lot of characters from past arcs.

It felt like there was maybe another episode of story here even. Things got wrapped up rather suddenly, and I found the whole brain transplant story a bit hard to follow. I also wanted a lot more Mera here, if the conclusion of the story was going to be that she's the one most worthy of being the ruler of Atlantis. But she MOSTLY just recited the prophecy stuff and was a foil for Orin to bounce dialogue off of.

I'm really looking forward to the next arc. It's sort of weird because there was really not much to do with Kaldur here, he's such a strong stoic character I think it's hard to get into his head or give him vulnerabilities, and in the end I think this was more of an Orin story but I think we got enough Kaldur too. I liked the attention to Atlantean politics, even if I think it needed more breathing room. Yeah, that's about it. Just liked it a lot. [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 2:28:49 pm EDT from 65.95.86.37

Alan Scott is a Green Lantern, but I don't think he's active duty in the League (I mean, hopefully he's enjoying a well deserved retirement!), so probably it's Kyle (and much as I'd love Jess or Simon to show up, I'm attached to them as a package deal duo.)
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 1:35:13 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

I think Guy Gardner was the fourth and Alan Scott was the first
Friendly CIA Spook
Your Snappy Caption Here
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 11:06:25 am EDT from 71.56.248.200

Who is the fourth Green Lantern in the Young Justice universe?
Prince Ritji - [jrgontor at gmail dot com]
gontor
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 9:59:14 am EDT from 192.190.140.23

I don’t care about the debagee but I agree that Anime does anime representation right.
Phantom stranger
posted @ Sat, Apr 9, 2022 9:16:21 am EDT from 189.130.154.253

Henry> You're free to check it out yourself, personally I didn't watch all of the episodes of season 3 but the ones I did I can generously call "some interesting ideas that weren't well executed." I don't know, it just feels more....Saturday Morning Cartoon than anything.
But if you have the opportunity to read the SLG comics I'd heavily recommend that instead.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 7:23:59 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Henry, if you can find copies of the SLG comics, I would recommend those over The Goliath Chronicles. You might try looking through WorldCat for any library copies you might be able to get access to (I helped a friend read them through inter-library lending through that).

https://www.worldcat.org/
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 4:59:52 pm EDT from 184.54.103.20

*Crass
Algae
"People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it." - Princess Bubblegum
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 4:08:49 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

B> I can't claim to know Alex/Aldrius very well but I can't imagine them being so effing cross.
Algae
"People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it." - Princess Bubblegum
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 4:06:18 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

question, Should I continue on to Gargoyles season three? I heard mr. Weissman isn't involved so that makes me not want to but it has the same cast so I do want to. What should I do?
Henry
HGB
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 3:31:51 pm EDT from 134.10.130.78

B> Chock on your granddaddy's dick, faggot.
A
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 2:04:46 pm EDT from 208.78.41.198

@A: I hope you're not Alex/Aldrius insulting me with ridiculously overblown language for making one minor mistake while trying to be helpful using a system I've never used before to clarify an episode everyone here has probably seen. I'd be less disappointed in you if you were a rando or no-longer-a-fan insulting me over either that or my social opinions. Either way, your words are meaningless and I know for a fact they couldn't be further off the mark, so my self-esteem is quite intact. They also violate the code of conduct here, and say more about you than me. Sheesh, you'd think getting that mad would hurt. Note: if you respond, I won't reply a second time regardless of what you say, so you needn't bother.
B
B
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 11:00:44 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

B> You're a fucking inbred retarded mouth breather.
A
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 10:36:41 am EDT from 198.8.92.75

Turns out that the much-vaunted [SPOILER] Psy-Backs that Vandal kept mentioning have a waaaaaay more literal name than it might've seemed at first blush.

PSYchic BACKups. [/SPOILER]
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"My mission is to make everyone happy by singing." - Vivy
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 2:52:48 am EDT from 98.150.138.224

Aldrius> [SPOILER] The cloned Arion's body using residual DNA that Vandal had access to then transferred Orm's brain into that body. You see in one scene that Ultra-Humanite was carrying a brain around while Vandal was talking about the Orm clone. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 2:19:20 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

I know I pasted that end slash.
B
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 2:17:25 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

@Alex/Aldrius: [SPOILER]The real Orm's brain was put in a cloned Arion body sometime after Lady Shiva beheaded him.[SPOILER]
B
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 2:16:24 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

So the word "non binary" isn't a new word. It means someone's not one or the other. And being "nonbinary" is not anything new. The words might be new, but the concept of neither being a man nor a woman is not something that teenagers on twitter invented in the last decade. The whole concept of gender fluidity is old as dirt. And if you think it's "mental" frankly... um... it's not.

And I fail to see how anything in season 3 is preachy. Characters talk about their feelings and identities. If someone wants to be called by other pronouns other than the norm... *they talk about it*. This is also a subplot that has been arcing for... what? 20 episodes? Halo is hardly even in this season. And if you think the show lacks focus because it's spinning too many plates, then I think sure, that's a legitimate criticism, but it has nothing to do with the show being "preachy" or including a non-binary character.

And you know what? Nothing about Young Justice is really preachy. The closest thing to the show being preachy was that episode in season 3 about child abuse. Which I mean... that's pretty fair.

As to Luthor... like... those Trump quotes were jokes. Maybe jokes that didn't land, but just jokes. I'd hardly say Lex was like Trump otherwise. Other than being an obstructionist I guess.

[SPOILER] Okay, so I'm gonna write a more full review later, but am I crazy or was... Orm's soul or personality inside Arion's body? Or did I miss something? [/SPOILER]
Alex (or Aldrius)
posted @ Fri, Apr 8, 2022 2:02:49 am EDT from 65.95.86.37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x_-4UdhL3Q

Throwback Toons uploaded this recently, 3 episodes of TSSM. One of which being Nature VS Nurture having of course included at the end, but prior to it is Intervention and The Final Curtain (First Season 2 episode they uploaded).
Antiyonder
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 8:23:18 pm EDT from 71.93.3.194

@Algae "And I can't recall an example of ANY celebrated author in recorded history being praised for being 'apolitical'."

That's a very good observation. And I'm reminded of a post a friend of mine made on Facebook where they said if you call yourself "apolitical" then you might as well call yourself some other words, such as "indifferent", "callous" and "cruel".
.
B
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 5:02:04 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

JUST ANOTHER FAN> To me, preaching is when a character stops the plot to deliver a lecture to the camera. And I can't really recall an example of that in either Outsiders or Phantoms.

Lex's Trumpism are, at worse, dated gags. The climate change comments were just one item on a list of grievances meant to set-up the various Atlantean city-states' dissatisfaction with Orin's administration. Violet's 'coming out' was literally played over the ending credits.

At anyrate, authors have been putting political and social commentary in their works since Dante Alighieri wrote about all the Florentine nobles he didn't like literally being tortured by demons in Hell.

And I can't recall an example of ANY celebrated author in recorded history being praised for being "apolitical".
Algae
"People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it." - Princess Bubblegum
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 4:06:53 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

As a non-Muslim I haven't had these concerns about Halo, but I have to disagree with Greg's point 1, that they didn't create her. The Halo in the comics isn't a Muslim or Middle Eastern, so that's what the asker was referring to. They created an original Muslim Middle Eastern character on Young Justice when they adapted Halo.
B
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 12:00:24 pm EDT from 104.228.162.16

New Young Justice comics, hooray! I've been hoping for that. And bonus stories, too! There's such an extensive timeline with all the offscreen events, filling it in is all to the good.
B
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 11:55:44 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

@no_longer_a_fan Young Justice hasn't died, you've left. And good riddance, you silly person.
B - [b]
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 11:50:18 am EDT from 104.228.162.16

So you don't want political pandering or preachiness.
I'd ask you, what is the acceptable level of political references or social commentary in a show rated TV-14? To which I should point out means it isn't a "kids" show.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 6:03:49 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

Again I am not complying about diversity. I am all for LGBT and minority characters in media.

I am complying about the preachyness. AND the whole political pandering to a specific group of Twitter users politics.

Believe it or not, I am left leaning too. Not an evil trump supporter that hates all minorities or whatever label people give to anyone having a dissenting opinion on twitter.

1- Preachyness

I mean those examples being false equivalences aside, there’s the fact that this show started as a kid’s show and the warped itself to start preaching it’s audience to promote Greg’s own political views. That is the issue.

Nobody is complying about the show touching serious issues. The complain is again Greg using it to promote his political ideology.


2.- Anime

I stand by abuse doing diversity right without the preachiness. Praising how they di diversity right doen’t mean I think Japan is an utopia. Just that they do storytelling better than their West SJW counterparts. Not always. And it’s not perfect. But they do.

Cool you are an anime nerd. So am I. Most of us disagree with you.

3.-Lex Luther being trump

Greg HIMSELF admitted he gave him Trump’s traits.

He literally gave him his cathphrases. Also very disingenuous and dishonest to use comics as a defense when the show has made its point of standing on its own merits.

He wasn’t a trump stand in, until season 3.

I also hate trump, but implying this isn’t preaching political activism is a lie. And very dishonest.
Just another fan
Concerned fan
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 4:37:42 am EDT from 189.130.190.200

Pardon the double post, but it's time for episode 17 "Leviathan Wakes"

[SPOILER] So I was right in that the prophecy never specified that it Arion chosen to be the high king of Atlantis and that it could've easily applied to the other three also at the Red Waters. But Karrin got it right, it was meant to be Mera. I do like the humility Arthur displays, one who recognizes the need to step down and let more qualified people take charge. Or at the very least someone who doesn't necessarily feel quite the same burden that a crown can give. And I'm glad that La'gaan is finally getting some recognition of his own, because if the Team has no quota on archers, the heroes have no quotas on water guys.

So Project Thrinos was simply a bait-and-switch, clone Ocean-Master and set it loose on Atlantis, while the real Orm infiltrates within a brand-spanking new body. Actually I'm a little surprised the Light gave him this chance in the first place, he didn't strike me as the best of the leads even before his disgrace and considering how close he was to enacting the Nuclear Option out of spite. Well I figured the Light cast him off like the dead albatross that he was. And I guess it goes to show considering he couldn't help rubbing it in one literal last time. But you know what they say about pride and the fall.

I'm honestly a little disappointed, I was hoping Project Thrinos was going to be another long-running clandestine theme and not something resolved so easily. I will say I wonder what Vandal's going to do next, very few things have gotten under his skin like this and I wonder where the Light will direct their energies to next. And then there's the matter of clone Orm, now that he's no longer dancing to anyone's strings, has the Light gained a new enemy?

I really appreciated Kaldur's speech at the end, I actually wonder if Khary wrote that on his own considering how close he is to the character. And it makes sense too, he's had such a constant hand at the heroes' machinations that of course he would carry a huge amount of guilt when they went wrong and others paid the price. And only now has he learned to let that grief out and take time for himself. Here's hoping he comes back a stronger and better man. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 4:23:36 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

Both of my parents have worked in the oil refinery business and I can tell you that long-term damage for short term profit is very much a thing. Especially since the people at the top aren't going to be living anywhere near the affected area.

Now when it comes to nuclear power, keep in mind I live near the San Andreas Fault so a reactor doesn't really appeal to anyone around here. But I will concede that there are plenty of areas where the local environment would cause quite the hazard.

Oh, and SF Debris covered "The Silver Falcon" on his website. You can find it here: https://www.sfdebris.com/videos/animation/gargoyless2e6.php
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Thu, Apr 7, 2022 2:10:37 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

I mean, let's be real, the reasons that nuclear power isn't adopted more widely isn't solely because eeeeeeeevil environmentalists have rallied against it for no adequately explained reason.

It's because, while on balance it is arguably the least-dangerous energy source in terms of total accidents or fatalities, when those accidents do occur the environmental, human, and financial impacts can be absolutely devastating.

I'm sure you roll your eyes when people's thoughts immediately and automatically turn to Chernobyl, Three Mile, or Fukushima whenever the words "nuclear power" come up but...that kind of happens for a reason? Because those were all high-profile demonstrations that there are limits to the locations where nuclear energy can be harnessed and processed safely. People didn't randomly "turn against" nuclear energy because big, bad environmentalists conjured a boogeyman out of whole cloth; the nuclear industry did that to themselves by screwing up in a number of inarguably horrific incidents.

Now me, personally? I do think nuclear power has a part to play (among others) in the energy transformation that needs to happen if we want to actually make a serious dent against climate change. But it's far from a panacea. And it's silly and asinine to pretend like the public perception (*gets a glare from Orin*) that there are serious safety concerns with the technology doesn't matter, or that it's 100% unfounded. Exaggerated and out of proportion to what's actually borne out by the data, perhaps, but not unfounded.

But you're right, this is veering waaaaaaay off-topic. All I was pointing out on my end was that Garth's line makes perfect sense from his particular perspective; whether any of us personally agree with it is immaterial.

(That being said, I absolutely do agree with it.)
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"My mission is to make everyone happy by singing." - Vivy
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 11:56:15 pm EDT from 98.150.138.224

I think it's safe to say that when people think of corporations they think of private entities and not when they are owned by the state and as far as I can tell that is what the vast majority are in the Guardian article, authoritarian states that have no oversight. And typically people mention the global north as the ones causing the most in climate change which I assumed what you meant when you said few causing the majority, which if you didn't I am sorry.

And I don't subscribe to the view that people with money and power have an extreme outsized influence in controlling other people's behaviors, yes they do more on average but everyone has agency and exert power in different ways, and blaming "systems" usually is a way to excuse your contribution to the problem. No one likes to admit they are responsible for things it's human nature. I mean living in the United States as a citizen you are in the Global 1% but everyone acts like they are powerless it's baffling.

Another reason why we haven't gotten rid of fossil fuels is because no one has come up with a sustainable solution to them and nuclear power has been demonized by environmentalists in an echo of energy companies denying human caused climate change. Until we discover how to store a lot of power in batteries that is our only option but's easier to create a narrative than acting on solutions I suppose.

Regarding King Shark's statement I don't think you should give too much weight to what he says, he is looking for a reason to fight and he will find no matter what that issue is just the excuse.

I don't know about Garfield's arc it sounds like they are combining addiction, the negative side of child acting, PTSD, and depression into one, which I don't think is a good idea.

[SPOILER] And yeah looks like General Zod is appearing maybe Krypton will get a more villainous portrayal then previous depictions [/SPOILER]

But yeah I hope I am not coming off as argumentative or in bad faith unlike others, I just believe in healthy dialogue as opposed to being in an echo chamber where nothing gets done. And I can stop talking about the issue if it helps, I would like to see your write up on Beast Boy maybe my mind will get changed about how the arc is unfolding.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 10:55:36 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Oops, sorry about that! That's my post below - hadn't set my text color up yet on a cookie-less browser. Ah well.
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 10:03:38 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

I think you're a bit confused about the terminology involved? State-owned corporations are still corporations, which is why China is at the top of the list there. And even then, they're quite outnumbered by private groups such as Shell, Exxon, etc.

The larger point, that there are a relatively few number of entities responsible for an outsize proportion of pollution, is well backed up by data - and I'm not sure why you're bringing up the US or Western private entities? You're the only one who's specified a geographic region or a specific country thus far. The episode doesn't get that granular either (it would be somewhat awkward given the trademarked names - blaming LexxonMobil, perhaps?), so I'm not sure where that's coming from.

Though, this all is drifting from the original point somewhat - you said "People are not burning fossil fuels for misguided short term profit they are trying to get out of poverty", which is not actually born out by data. Most people who are prioritizing our use of fossil fuels are quite wealthy, and that wealth allows them to shape policy - including the policy of what behavior gets incentivized and disincentivized. The problem, in other words, is not a vast number of people who have no choice but to use fossil fuels - it's a system that has made us reliant on them, which has been perpetuated by people who do so because it makes them money and they expect that same money will insulate them from the consequences indefinitely.

I'm similarly unclear on why you're under the impression I was singling the US out for the waste thing? If you'd read the linked article, you'd see that it mentions the US, the EU as a whole, Canada... many countries, really. The US only comes up as the single largest contributor, but that's hardly a major focus of the article. Statistics, properly gathered, are not demonization, and it's not as though researching who has done what is preventing people from also studying new methods. Statistics and energy development are quite different fields!

And as far as the fictional argument goes - as I understand it, "until they have to deal with it" is happening now. At least one country is having a famine, and the issues of algal blooms and toxic runoff presumably affect them as well. There's only one ocean, after all.

....wow, I can't believe this took up the entire week. I had a bit I wanted to write about Garfield's arc thus far and how it's good to have characters with a wide variety of responses to trauma, and how getting or deserving help isn't reserved for people whose trauma shows up in a 'nice' or easily packaged and understood way that I meant to write today - since I thought the chat would be quieter - but maybe it'll wait for next week? Or maybe it'll come up in the episode. Apparently it'll be called [SPOILER] Leviathan Wakes, so we get that full KNEEL in the acronym. [/SPOILER] And written by the multitalented Khary Payton! Really, is there anything that guy can't do?
Anonymous
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 10:01:48 pm EDT from 68.9.91.142

To Masterdramon, I didn't expect my question about Aquaman's telepathy to get into climate change but here we are. And to your points considering the size of the ocean and the characters involved I suspect that Atlanteans are short sighted and flawed as the land ones are, King Shark would have attacked his neighbors for one reason or another climate change was just the excuse.

And while I don't know the size of Atlantis or the population but I would imagine if they can live underwater or you know since they have magic they would have ways to mitigate the damage or avoid it entirely the ocean is a big place. Yes they can't avoid it entirely but at the very least if they are anything like the surface they can put it off until they have to deal with it.

Which is why it's very difficult to discuss real world issues in superhero shows when you have metahumans, magic, and advanced technology that could solve these problems.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 5:27:26 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Respectfully I believe you missed my entire point, for that corporation list, the most heavily polluters were from government entities, not United States or Western private entities. It's a global problem and requires global solutions not singling out behavior that is commonplace amongst nations. And a big reason we haven't got away from fossil fuels is because the closest energy source that can meet the world's supply nuclear power has been demonized and thus people are forced to use fossil fuels. Energy companies are ammoral not evil give them an incentive and they will follow it people are complicated not Captain Planet esque villains.

The dichotomy of stronger nations taken advantage have always existed every country has and will continue to do so, but singling out the United States doesn't solve anything the same countries we take advantage of do the same to others as well. Instead of demonizing energy companies or countries develop the technology and mitigate the emissions for the current ones, humans are a hardy species 100 years ago we were worried about horse manure in the streets who knows what energy problems we will have in the future.

Re Ra's Yeah I hope that plotline gets explored in Nightwing's arc but I suspect it will be about the Phantom Zone, which is disappointing but I will wait a month when they have the Arc's poster come up to pass judgement on that.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 5:18:12 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Climate change isn't an inevitable apocalypse. It's a completely avoidable apocalypse where, unfortunately, almost all actions actually drastic enough to avert the worst of its effects aren't on the table for any major political party.

This is another case where I'd say that one man's "preaching" is another man's "realism." Fact of the matter is, if we're to accept that the largest nation on the Earth exists entirely underwater, then that alters the geopolitics of the issue severely. For Atlantis, climate change is an existential threat, and far more immediately than it is for most of the world. The way that the perspective of island nations today is often quite different than landlocked ones.

I have no trouble believing that Garth would have zero patience for hearing about the economic drivers that perpetuate and accelerate fossil fuel use. His nation is simply going to have different priorities than others might, by virtue of geography.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"My mission is to make everyone happy by singing." - Vivy
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 5:05:23 pm EDT from 198.217.64.131

"It's ok if you neither respond nor read this, but regardless of what you think of my opinion or character, I take issue with your dismissing my appreciation of your early work only because I don't gush all over you and everything you do, like the clowns on this room. But I understand it's easier to paint dissents as trolls than accept criticism outside your echo chamber."

I'll just add that if you can't find any space between ass-kissing and hate speech, that's a you problem. And yes, accusing people whose identity you don't accept of mental illness is hate speech. See 50's propaganda about the "depraved homosexual," or runaway slaves accused of "drapetomania."
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com']
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 4:56:10 pm EDT from 98.48.118.192

I mentioned before that the issue with Ra's and his new viewpoint is that while he presents the idea of seeing the world in shades of grey, in practice it's much more fuzzy.

While he may not be working with the Light anymore, he has no problem sharing crucial information about Nightwing and his new group of heroes to the Light in Season 3. Not to mention that he uses his image as a "reasonable and honorable" villain to undercut some legitimate concerns from the heroes. And you notice that he and his entourage are quick to shoo the heroes out before they start noticing a certain red-hooded ninja....
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 4:53:50 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

No, I'm taking an accurate view? 100 corporations are responsible for 70% of pollution since the 70s. More than 50% can be traced to 25 entities. It's not Western-centric to say that. And the reason we don't have cleaner energy yet has nothing to do with people sitting on their hands and catastrophizing and everything to do with those same corporations lobbying and making ad campaigns to keep fossil fuels profits up. Which is part of why developing nations that arguably need fossil fuel as a stepping stone in building their industries up and establishing cleaner power now get hit for it in a sort of 'screw you, got mine.' And frankly I don't know where you're getting the idea that I think they're passive victims from the accurate statement that we have been sending our waste overseas to avoid recycling it ourselves - for goodness' sake, some of the countries we've been using as a trash dump have started sending the trash back! Recognizing that we've been giving some people a raw deal in the name of profits is hardly saying those people are passive.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48444874

And seconding all of what Algae said.
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 4:44:29 pm EDT from 72.10.127.194

Alas assuming your political opponents are operating in bad faith and not simply they just disagree with is as old as time itself but I should have been more clear on that. But I believe Lex Luthor being Trumpesque was what the original comment was referring to with his fake news and good people on both sides comments in the show.

Re Climate Change, you are taking a very Western Centric view that corporations are the main responsible party with climate change as they are no other entities on the planet who has agency and that the people of poor nations are just passive victims. That viewpoint doesn't serve or help anyone as people in those countries are not trying to destroy the planet but getting out of poverty which is why they are burning fossil fuels so they become can richer and more secure because survival is their priority. I don't disagree that Exxon Mobil hasn't contributed to the problem but this is a global issue and one corporation or country is not responsible for it is much more complicated then that.

And people have been aware of the climate change since at least the 70s but instead of developing technology like nuclear power or mitigate current emissions we are stuck on talking about the problem like it's an inevitable apocalypse. Sorry if I am coming off the wrong way but this is a very important issue to me and I want people to take it seriously and not as a partisan checklist you don't think twice about.

Re Ra's Al Ghul clearly something happened that made him see the world in grey and not Light or Shadows, as Sensei said they are no longer in that business and he wouldn't go with the Light during the Chaos Lord Crisis when he most likely would have before. While raising Damian is obviously on his mind I think it's fair to say there is something else going on.

And re the comic that is good to hear and that apparently in a back up feature they are telling stories in the between years of the show so it looks everyone will get what they want!

And yes they has been used as singular pronoun when the gender was unknown in an either or context and there have always been gender atypical individuals.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 4:21:15 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Lex Luthor is nothing like Donald Trump. Lex is much smarter and has better hair.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 4:03:56 pm EDT from 70.227.91.143

Congrats to Messieurs Weisman and Jones. Not bad for series that's been "dead" for almost a week. ;)

Not to backtrack but I just wanted to address a couple misconceptions I noticed floating about the room earlier today...

While “Non-binary” may be a relatively new term (having largely superseded “genderqueer” which itself goes back as at least as far as the 1980s), the phenomena it describes is very old indeed. From the Gala of Ancient Sumer to the Public Universal Friend of 18th century Rhode Island, folks who fall outside the gender binary have existed at least as long as the written word.

I could go on to cite every other example of gender variance in world history and mythology across cultures as far afield as Armenia, Polynesia and Zimbabwe but as Mr. Weisman might say, this isn’t the format for novel length responses.

And in terms of the English language, the use of the singular they/them is attested as far back as Chaucer and Shakespeare. That’s not even getting into languages like Turkish that don’t have ANY gendered pronouns.

Which is all to say that whatever you think of how Greg and Brandon have handled this particular subject manner, none of these issues are in anyway new.

And even if I personally didn’t believe in non-binary genders, I’d still make it a point to address someone by their chosen name and pronouns just out of basic courtesy. The only reason I can see for outright refusing is if your actively trying to antagonize someone.
Algae
"People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it." - Princess Bubblegum
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 3:44:04 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

Kevin: that might be the case on a subreddit, but I don't see how that's relevant to the text of the show or this forum. No one here has said anything about 'rednecks', it's not in the show, so I don't see how it matters to this conversation. You can't assign a political belief to someone because it's the norm in some corner of the internet they don't participate in and don't moderate.

Also, while obviously I'm not a psychic and wasn't in the writer's room, I'm pretty sure the 'short sighted economic gains' comment was about things like ExxonMobil knowing back in the '70s that burning fossil fuels was accelerating climate change, and spending 40 years trying to bury and discredit that same research so they could continue profiting. And putting fossil fuels aside, look at how most of our waste ends up shipped overseas to poor nations to avoid paying disposal or recycling costs here, only for it to end up polluting those areas and harming the health of their residents. "Short-term profits" is an extremely accurate description of the motivations involved here, especially considering that most pollution comes from industrial sources.

Also, we already know the comic is going to be an interquel? Or at least, if we get a season 5 it will be. It takes place [SPOILER] directly after the end of Phantoms and is about the Outsiders rescuing Perdita. [/SPOILER]

(I admit, I'm not sure how much there is to tell in why Ra's left the Light - obviously there could be some huge drama, but I think maybe he just told Vandal "hey I'm going on grandpaternity leave, see you when Damian's ready to get involved with Light stuff, keep the League of Shadows warm for me, thanks" and that was that. It's never seemed to me he left on bad terms or even means this to be a permanent thing - what's 15-20 years to get his new heir trained up to an immortal?)

Also, singular 'they' has been in use longer than singular 'you.' Just a fun little historical tidbit.
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 3:25:03 pm EDT from 72.10.127.194

To CIA Spook [SPOILER] I thought that too at first but then I realized taking an alias would make sense for Mr Duval and why not take up his son's to throw people off the trail? At least I think that is something Greg Weisman would do for a twist. [/SPOILER]

To Phoenician it looks me and Ed had the same thought!

To Matthew Donald Trump was very different in the 1980s then he was in the last few decades and even then he was copying the 1980s businessman look then actually being one hence the Howard Hughes and Ted Turner influences being more prevalent in Lex Luthor.

Re Preachiness Yeah when they are talking about climate change the way people were talking about in the 1970s and 80s is very tone deaf. People are not burning fossil fuels for misguided short term profit they are trying to get out of poverty and shaking your head condescendingly is not helping anyone.

As for the redneck comments yeah if you look at the YJ reddit or anywhere really if you don't agree with the prevailing opinion, you are a Cis [a term that makes no sense] Trump supporter/hater of all minorities or some other similar term but this seems to be limited to people who are online too much and it's easy to lose perspective.

And for the new comic I hope it tells an original story and not be an in betweenquel a lot of creators seem to enjoy writing. It so easy to do why not tell a new story about the JSA or Justice League or maybe about Ra's Al Ghul and he left the Light?
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 2:27:53 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Gonna guess this new comics series takes place during the timeskip between S3 and S4, given everyone's visual appearances and the general premise. After the "The Prize" of course, given the presence of [SPOILER] Clayface [/SPOILER]. Super-excited regardless!

Just Another Fan: Don't have much to add to the points better articulated by Matthew and Antiyonder, but as a big anime nerd I do also have to take issue with your assertion that anime achieves "diversity without preachiness" in a way that other countries should emulate. I hear this point in other circles all the time and it's complete nonsense.

Japan isn't some apolitical utopia where art is produced in a complete vacuum divorced from the nation's historical or contemporary political culture, and the efforts of some (largely right-wing) fans to paint it as such smacks of both revisionism and more than a bit of worrying cultural fetishization. You may want to consider:

1) Your definition of what content is "political" or "preachy" may be too narrow (hint: if you consider "Attack on Titan" or "My Hero Academia" to be among these vaunted non-political works, then this one is definitely true).

2) Some cultural and political references may honestly go over your head, because naturally the contemporary politics that Japanese media most often comments on is...well, Japan's.

3) You may be willfully ignoring when Japanese creators can and do have something clear to say about a Western political or cultural issue and put it in their work, even if they do so with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Look at MICE from "Carole and Tuesday," or on the converse, Chiaki Nonaka's "Digimon Tamers" stage show last year, wherein the heroes fight a villain named Political Correctness, with an attack called Cancel Culture.

4) You may, honestly, just be judging the works by different standards for no reason I can adequately explain. Is it too "preachy" when Lily comes out to her friends in "Zombie Land Saga" and they all agree that she's the same girl she was before, regardless of what genitalia she has? Or Yu from "Stars Align," whose whole focus episode is about their long-standing gender questioning and reading up on different identities, before deciding "non-binary" is the closest one? Or...basically the whole field of modern yuri and yaoi, which tend to deal far more realistically with Japanese issues of homophobia and gender expectations?

If you don't like these sorts of things in your media, Western or Eastern, then that's fine. No one's forcing you to watch or like anything.

But I also think it's a mistake to think that the people who do enjoy that content are just some vocal minority on Twitter that doesn't translate to a sizeable real-world audience. I can only speak for myself, but I love diverse themes and characters in my media more than anything else, whether Western Animation or anime. And what you call "being preachy" I would call "treating it realistically," which enhances that enjoyment tremendously.

I don't know what an apolitical version of "Beastars" or "Great Pretender" or "Oddtaxi" or "Violet Evergarden" would even look like, but I'm sure I wouldn't love them nearly as much.
Masterdramon - [kmc12009 at mymail dot pomona dot edu]
"My mission is to make everyone happy by singing." - Vivy
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 1:59:29 pm EDT from 98.150.138.224

Exciting! [SPOILER] Though, I wonder if that first page is a flashback? Since Superboy looks awfully, uh, non-ghosty. I mean, we all expected him to be retrieved, but it is unlike them to give the game away like that. Can't wait to see how this plays out! [/SPOILER]
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 12:34:53 pm EDT from 72.10.127.194

New Young Justice canon comics this summer!!

https://www.gamesradar.com/young-justice-returns-in-the-comic-book-series-target/
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 12:04:42 pm EDT from 72.216.220.229

Since the X-Men came up, I seem to recall the 90s X-Men cartoon had a lot of digs at the incumbent Clintons. Futurama had quite a few chuckles at the expense of Nixon and assorted others. And if it comes to that, pop culture has poked fun at Donald Trump since well before he went into politics. Biff Tannen in Back to the Future 2. Dan Clamp in Gremlins 2. Max Schreck in Batman 2 (didn't realize they were all sequels).

It's nothing new to poke fun at a public figure. I don't see how it amounts to an attempt to alienate viewers who might have liked or supported those individuals, and even if I did, there's a bit of incongruity between decrying a writer for (supposedly) playing to the "wrong" base by revealing a character as nonbinary while also decrying a write for not playing to the "right" base by poking fun at a political figure they like.

Of course, I'm not Greg, not affiliated with Greg, and I'm not even A Greg, so it's presumptuous of me to respond to a point of discussion aimed at Greg. I apologize for that. I just think it something that needed to be said.
Friendly CIA Spook
Your Snappy Caption Here
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 10:07:59 am EDT from 71.56.248.200

1. Really, even when some are light on the preaching, stories with heroes even the flawed ones kind of lend themselves to bringing awareness to societal ills.

2. Plus, more and more I question the whole "I'm fine with diversity as long as quality comes first". Seems fair I suppose if one doesn't think too hard about it. But?

While it would be dishonest to say that my own leanings on politics doesn't factor into my tastes, some of it is how I always approached my viewings even as a kid.

It would be a while before I really became a fan of girl/woman aimed franchises and the like, but I watched such cartoons as I would the usual 80s boy fare.

I didn't really grasp the idea of shows that I enjoy being crappy until I was older, but I recognized that say G1 MLP or Rainbow Brite was up there with Transformers of the time.

Fellow guys who suggest that they will watch something starring a girl or aimed at girls if good? It's that same with the while quality before diversity bit.

I doubt that they are strictly concerned with quality as much as they claim. If any generalization is arguably fact or close to such, it's that everyone enjoys their share of crap whether guilty pleasure or something they deem good.

Heck, if quality was really that important, why did Michael Bay get away with having 5 Transformers films under his belt? Or again, why are the original Transformers, G.I.Joe or even He-Man held up as examples of quality compared to today? Not good and got preachy either in show or PSA segments.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 5:46:35 am EDT from 71.93.3.194

So here's a little comic history Concerned Fan, for years and years Lex Luthor was portrayed as a paunchy, mad-scientist type. Building killer robots and the like to bring down that goody two-shoes Superman.

But in 1986 The Man of Steel was published by John Byrne as a way to set the new foundation for Superman after Crisis on Infinite Earths. Lex Luthor was reimagined from a mad scientist to a corrupt businessman whose Nietzschean philosophy and lust for power and affluence contrasted against Clark's humility and morality. John Byrne admitted that he reimagined Lex as a blend of Ted Turner, Howard Hughes and yes, Donald Trump. His LexCorp Tower even emulating Trump Tower. This version was a hit among readers and he's carried elements of that reinvention even to this day.

For further fun, Lex was even elected president in the DC Universe in 2001 and those political aspirations have been seen in other media like Justice League Unlimited and Young Justice.

So you can't blame the cartoons for staying true to the character from the comics.

Now, history lesson's over. Let me address a couple of your assumptions.
1. Greg never said anything about red-necks on any side of the political spectrum.
2. You're making an awfully big assumption that the "real fans" were the ones who wanted to cancel Greg.

Now I have my criticisms, I've laid them out when I was reviewing every episode, comic and otherwise related material of Young Justice (I also did Rain of the Ghosts and Spectacular Spider-Man). But for the most part I tried to offer up my own ideas or alternative thoughts on story beats or characters. Because I don't like complaining for the sake of complaining and I try to live by my words, "It's easy to critique but far harder to create."

Diversity is a HUGE and tricky subject with a lot of nuances to it. Some of which Antiyonder laid out. And I have plenty to say on the matter myself. But for now, I'm climbing off the soapbox.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 3:18:47 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

And just to further my point on the FoH from X-Men TAS, they would frequently even go after civilians who either helped mutants or were more neutral.

They engineered events to make a good mutants look bad. And when they were briefly stopped in Season 2 it wasn't them realizing that they were the monsters, but merely cause Creed is the son of a mutant (later shown to be 2 mutant parents).

And in Bloodlines a small amount of them only get arrested for reckless behavior which Jubilee laments.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 2:40:32 am EDT from 71.93.3.194

Preaching is totally a bad thing. Agreed.

Except when:
1. Captain America punched Nazis left and right.

2. Superman's radio show story about him going after The Klan, and early comic issues going hard after social issues like an abusive husband or a mine owner being pressured into providing a better work environment.

3. Green Lantern and Green Arrow traveling the country to combat social issues in the country. Starting with Hal needing to deal with a a corrupt apartment owner and even realizing he has neglected the black community.

3. The famous drug trilogy of The Amazing Spider-Man. Drugs are so bad that Peter went after Harry's drug dealer and attacked pretty fiercely without holding back or concealing his secret id.

4. X-Men in general. Especially having a less than nuanced take with the Friends of Humanity. Even in TAS, the FoH weren't misunderstood citizens who needed to be shown compassion. They weren't decent people inspite of their prejudices. The show treated them as irredeemable bigots through and through.

5. And as much as I enjoy them, yeah even Suoer Friends and Captain Planet with any critiques they do get are nowadays treated as an example of the good old Woke free days. Super Friends which had preaching in their main eps, Wonder Twin shorts functioning as PSAs and four Superfriends who had no purpose beyond diversity.

Samurai, Apache Chief, El Dorado and the retooled Black Lightning.


Fact is if say Star Trek TOS, Gargoyles, X-Men TAS came out with the same exact writing and dialogue that they had in the past, they would be treated as social pandering as much as actual modern fare.
Antiyonder
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 2:36:23 am EDT from 71.93.3.194

Maybe Matt went to far with calling it “mental illness” but he wasn’t wrong with his criticism, Greg, assuming you re really him.

It’s not that diversity is bad. It’s that you are being preachy an political. Look I don’t like trump wither, but you warped lex Luxor into a caricature of him. And now your characters are being informed not on diversity, but for twitter fads like “they/them”. And they are fads because those concepts didn’t exist even 7 years ago. As you admitted.

You have seen first hand how to is your twitter audience is. You reached muslim Aliance and still wasn’t enough. Your real fans Aren’t the crowd complaining about pronouns Greg. And after all you did for them. They still tried to cancel you. And you know it.

Your problem is assuming everyone that dislike the political pandering is somewhat a bigot redneck trump supporter. “Evil”.

Diversity is great. Representing the little guy is too. Being preachy and condescending to your audience is not. Anime does this all the time. Diversity without without preachiness.

I do hope you get another season, but if you don’t I think this is what will have turned off your non twitter audience’s interest. Not the diversity. Diversity is good. Being preach is not
Just another fan
Concerned fan
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 1:15:11 am EDT from 189.130.95.149

Yeah I know. I was just having fun with CIA's gargopoly.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 1:06:54 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

It's this board game.

https://gargwiki.net/Gargoyles_Awakening_Board_Game
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Apr 6, 2022 12:11:23 am EDT from 70.176.217.135

Now here's the question, would you be buying up actual New York property or only the fictional locations from the show?
In any case, I imagine the Eyrie Building and Avalon would fill in for Park Place and Boardwalk.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 11:26:35 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

Gargopoly?
Friendly CIA Spook
Your Snappy Caption Here
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 11:14:20 pm EDT from 71.56.248.200

[SPOILER] Technically, Blanchefleur, while ultimately originating in Chretien de Troyes, comes via Roger Lancelyn Green's "King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table". Green's account probably influenced Greg's plans for Percival and Blanchefleur, for he states - and this appears only in Green; Percival's fate is different in Malory (and Blanchefleur doesn't appear in "Le Morte d'Arthur"), and Chretien never finished "Perceval" - that Percival and Blanchefleur ruled together at Carbonek after the Quest of the Holy Grail and that after the end of Arthur's reign, their kingdom "made still a little light in the darkness of a Britain conquered and laid waste by the barbarians". (Note the word "light", and its link to "Illuminati". One difference, though, is that Percival and Blanchefleur do eventually die in Green's version, and the Grail was taken up to Heaven - as per Malory - at the end of the Grail Quest.) Roger Lancelyn Green's book is recommended reading for anyone interested in the Arthurian legend in the context of "Gargoyles", since Greg's described it as one of his major sources - his take on Percival's parentage - the son of Gawain by the Loathly Damsel - comes from there, for example - and fortunately it's still in print. [/SPOILER]

By the way, I spotted the "Gargoyles" board game at the local Barnes and Noble this morning.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 9:25:49 pm EDT from 70.176.217.135

[SPOILER] Gawain is not one of the 8 Arthurian characters Greg has confirmed to be active within the (contemporary, I should say) Gargoyles universe, so it's very unlikely to be him.

Blanchefleur and Percival are on that list, and, as far as I'm aware, are lovers in de Troyes' story. Therefore the "Peredur's two most beloveds are his parents" thing could still be the case, assuming the Illuminati's 2s are Percival and Blanchefleur (though that still raises the question of why their kid (or clone, or whatever) has Percival's original Welsh name. Not that characters sharing a name isn't something we've seen in Gargoyles, but still. [/SPOILER]
Friendly CIA Spook
Your Snappy Caption Here
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 8:16:33 pm EDT from 71.56.248.200

[SPOILER] Another possibility is that Duvall is actually Gawain and Lady Ragnall is also Blanchefeur. That callback to the two people I most love in the world, while referring to a wife and best friend, could also be a father and mother. I got this from the archives when Greg Weisman was talking about his love of the Bastard trope and wondered if he would try to fit him in as Duval. [/SPOILER]

And yeah although in hindsight [Granny Goodness was a New God so she had a connection with the Amazons albeit it tenuous[/Spoiler] And wow that was over ten years ago with Linkara where does the time go.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 7:26:41 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

[SPOILER] Granny Goodness in did give me Duval/Percival/Peredur vibes when Outsiders first aired, but my long-standing personal favorite angle to our Arthurian-Clan Building mystery was first broken down by Ed, longtime frequenter of the Comment Room, back in 2009. I'll post the link to that archived post to allow those musings the most accuracy. :-)

https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/comment/archive/index.php?archive_date=2009-09-14 [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 7:23:29 pm EDT from 72.216.220.229

[SPOILER] With the certainty that Duval is more than what he seems, and the chance that Peredur is a clone of the actual Percival. I sometimes wonder if Peredur is merely a figurehead and the true power behind the Illuminati are in fact the two Twos. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 6:45:14 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

If I remember correctly [SPOILER] we have two characters who might be the Arthurian character Percival. The bald grouchy-looking one appears to go by Duval, and is indicated to be at minimum around a millennium old when he's seen in Timedancer as Brother Valmont. The fluffy-blonde guy outranks Duval, and is identified as "Peredur fab Ragnal" by none other than the Stone of Destiny, which, I assume, would not be mistaken about such things. I've given this matter a lot of thought and don't have an guess I'm satisfied with. For a while I thought blonde-Peredur might be a more recently created clone or something, made by the real Percival to be a suitable replacement for Arthur (Peredur doesn't resemble Duval much, thus presumably ruling him out as the DNA donor, but he might pass for a gender-flipped Blanchefleur, I suppose). But even that doesn't really sound right to me. [/SPOILER]
Friendly CIA Spook
Your Snappy Caption Here
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 5:49:35 pm EDT from 71.56.248.200

Taking a page from Linkara, maybe Peredur/Percival and Duvall is really [SPOILER] Granny Goodness!!!!! [/SPOILER]
Antiyonder
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 5:36:53 pm EDT from 71.93.3.194

Well that escalated quickly but back to the Aquaman point I remember in Endgame (interesting title all things considered) that he used a whale to help evacuate some civilians and like Superman not having cold breath I assumed it wasn't canon. I don't know why both of these powers are such a problem with the creative team but that's comic book fans for you.

And regarding Peredur/Percival and Duvall [SPOILER] I think they are all the same person since we know Granny Goodness and Gretchen Goode were the same beings I think it's safe to say Mr Weisman would use a similar trope regarding the leader of the Illuminanti. [/SPOILER]

And I don't it would be wise to write up my criticism of the show now because I don't think it go over well at this time.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 5:29:50 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

No longer a fan> See if this was just a case of differing opinions in regards to how the seasons were written, it wouldn't be an issue. But the fact that someone is writing off others who identify as gender-fluid or nonbinary as mentally ill. That's a problem.

I've mentioned before that gender-fluidity isn't a new thing, the ancient Hindu Veddas spoke on that sort of thing quite a lot. It's only "popularized" in the sense that social media has allowed others to speak up on their own lives from all over the world and there have been efforts made not to shut others down because they live outside the heteronormative norm.

I'd encourage you to actually meet and speak with others who are nonbinary, but for some reason those who treat it as a mental illness seem adamant against face-to-face conversations.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 5:06:18 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

By the way, we all know it’s you, Thomas Peano.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Become a writer; you can be petty." ~~Roshni Chokshi
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 2:05:11 pm EDT from 174.210.4.107

For someone who claims that they’re no longer a fan, you sure are invested in trolling this comment room. Your opinions are yours, and nobody else here cares about them, or agrees with your assessments. If you want to quit being a fan, then just do so. Leave, don’t come back, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Become a writer; you can be petty." ~~Roshni Chokshi
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 2:01:51 pm EDT from 174.210.4.107

Yes, that dialog will age horribly. Non-binary is a made-up term popularized nowadays by social media to normalize gender dysphoria. If you had done your due diligence, you'd have fallen into a steep rabbit hole and found people identifying with bug and toys pronouns. Peak mental illness. These people need help, not complacency. And I watched YJ for the plot, intrigue and action. Not identity politics.

Maybe it's a sad truth that network restraints brings out the best work from you, as it forced you to think outside the box. A good example of that is Season Two. With only 20 episodes to work with, the season had better pacing, focus and well fleshed out characters, unlike the dumpster fire that was Season Three of YJ that tried to compact 15 different plots jumping back and forth with everyone fighting for the center stage. Gargoyles clearly had lots of representation, but it was nuanced. I used to think that was intentional, but apparently it's a consequence of the restraints you had to work around. Season Three is representative of what happens when you have free reign: nuance goes out the window and diversity, inclusion and representation are done with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. And it seems you've learned nothing from that season's reception, because Halo continues to be driven by contemporary woke social justice themes, instead of the plot. Her scenes are inorganic and shoehorned, completely detached from the A-Plot. They completely pulled me out of the episode. Her "epiphany" happened because the writers decided she needed to get there, and not because the events around her drove her there. It's not like she met someone suffering from gender dysphoria and related to him/her. She suddenly decided she wanted other people to refer to her with third person plural pronouns, because that's totally a normal thing to do. Contrived, cringe-inducing and desperate virtue signalling.

It's ok if you neither respond nor read this, but regardless of what you think of my opinion or character, I take issue with your dismissing my appreciation of your early work only because I don't gush all over you and everything you do, like the clowns on this room. But I understand it's easier to paint dissents as trolls than accept criticism outside your echo chamber.
No longer a fan
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 1:48:57 pm EDT from 185.174.159.134

Mother of Goat, forgot the name.
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 10:53:45 am EDT from 72.216.220.229

Kevin -- And that, indeed, is the big difference between between canon-in-training (CIT) and canon. Should Gargoyles ever get more stories, the GargWiki knows just where they'll be needing to de-highlight and/or thoroughly update . . . [SPOILER] (looking at you, Duval, Percival, Peredur! Whoever you all are, lol [/SPOILER]. d:
Anonymous
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 10:52:59 am EDT from 72.216.220.229

Success it worked!

And I agree but on Earth 16 Aquaman apparently can only use it on marine mammals here is where I got that from.
https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=16836
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 10:41:38 am EDT from 72.95.140.30

I take it you mean 'ignored'

Though I suppose it could go either way at this point
Friendly CIA Spook
Your Snappy Caption Here
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 8:07:30 am EDT from 71.56.248.200

Jesus was that Greg Weisman fur real the one that commented below? I though he ignited the commment room
Anonhero
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 7:40:51 am EDT from 189.130.95.149

I'm pretty sure Aquaman being able to control the creatures of the sea has been a thing since the Silver Age. So it wasn't limited to only marine mammals.
I mean, could you imagine him trying to fight crime with only the gentle dugong as his ally? He'd be treated as even more useless than he usually is.

[SPOILER] And I kneel to no man except Terrence Stamp. [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 4:21:34 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

I meant marine mammals can't believe I didn't type that in the first time. And minor thing all things considering but I wonder if he enhanced his meta ability with magic or if it was retconned that he could use it for all fish life.

[SPOILER] Let's see if this works I think the title lines will say INVITATION TO KNEEL BEFORE ZOD [/SPOILER]

It might have been the back slash but lets try it out with this comment.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 1:04:41 am EDT from 72.95.140.30

Or... STREET SHARKS

Gonna kick some serious fin, to win

JAWSOME
Friendly CIA Spook
Your Snappy Caption Here
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 12:34:47 am EDT from 71.56.248.200

They are.

....Except for the dreaded Land Shark.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 12:28:44 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

But sharks are marine animals

... aren't they?
Friendly CIA Spook
Hey, I'm just saying, Cap, if I were God, I'd still want a starship. Just to enjoy driving it. Or to impress women. You know.
posted @ Tue, Apr 5, 2022 12:01:33 am EDT from 71.56.248.200

Kevin> That's interesting, can you explain what's gone wrong when you tried to post things in spoilers?
One thing I missed the first time I tried something in spoilers is making sure to put the back slash. So it wouldn't show up blank at all unless I ended it with [/SPOILER]
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 11:57:35 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

While I do have legitimate criticisms of the show I can't express them here because A. I don't how to use spoilers tags here because every time I tried it doesn't work. And B. I don't think it will be productive because people will think I am acting in bad faith and thus nothing constructive will happen. But at the very least put an avatar/contact info put your money where you mouth is so to speak. And just in case no the criticisms don't have to with diversity/social justice issues but things like the mole, Rimbor and Dr Fate plotlines.

And on another note did anyone notice that Aquaman has telepathy over sharks now when he is only supposed to have it over marine animals? Did his powers change or something I mean I like it better this way but for some reason on Earth 16 this was changed at least until recently apparently.
Kevin - [kevin dot nuckols at yahoo dot com]
Kevin Nuckols
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 11:11:17 pm EDT from 72.95.140.30

Speaking of, that strip I mention, Phoebe and Her Unicorn has a Non-binary Unicorn who shows up from time to time. Ferny who for no reason if referred to as Infernus the Unicorn of Death. Instead of they being used as a pronoun for the character, Ferny (and I presume other Unicorns also NB) are referred to as Neigh.

Cause like with MLP Friendship is Magic, dialogue can benefit from Equine terminology.

And yeah despite being close to 40 this month, I only learned of the term Equine cause of MLP a few years back.
Antiyonder
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 5:05:59 pm EDT from 71.93.3.194

Well said.
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 4:45:05 pm EDT from 64.85.245.77

GREG WEISMAN> Amen, sir... Amen.
Algae
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 3:27:33 pm EDT from 217.183.44.235

It's almost funny to me how some folks aren't satisfied with simply NOT liking something. They also have to assign MOTIVES to the creator. Or presume to assign them.

Anyway, "No longer a fan," you say that I'm "trying to please to EVERYONE". And yet, I feel no need to try to please you at all. I don't give a good god damn what you think. Weird, huh?

You seem convinced that I'm only writing stuff to pander, and you state that YOU ARE NO LONGER A FAN. But the thing is, it's fairly clear to me that you must never have really been a fan of my work in the first place. Or if you thought you were, you only had a superficial understanding of that work. Because going back to GARGOYLES - or hell, going back to CAPTAIN ATOM and my other early comic book work - issues and themes of diversity, inclusion and representation were extremely important to me, long before I had the vocabulary to define those terms. I have from Day One of my career been bored with a media that only focused on a bunch of cis, straight white guys - even though I am (unashamedly) a cis, straight white guy, myself. I like writing about the other. I like writing about outsiders. I always have. ALWAYS. And YOUNG JUSTICE - from season one on - has been part of that mission. For both myself and Brandon Vietti. You think this show has changed from its early seasons? But it hasn't at all, really. We're no longer being censored (for the most part), so that's different in that we can now state objectively things that we only implied in the first two seasons (but we did imply them, in case you felt like paying close attention). And the series has certainly evolved, aging up with the audience, but only along the basic game plan Brandon and I came up with in 2009-2010. You don't have to like it. But it's fairly ridiculous to pretend there's been some kind of shift.

I hesitated to respond to you, because I hesitated to dignify your putrid statements about me validating "mental disorders". But sometimes I can't help myself. And since you felt no hesitation to categorize my personality, I'm gonna go ahead and categorize yours. You're small-minded. Afraid. And that fear closes you off and makes you hateful. And I have no patience for that. AT. ALL.

You say, "Ten years from now that dialog will have aged HORRIBLY. Mark my words." I'll take that bet. Gladly. Fearlessly.

I'm not getting off Twiiter. (I mean, I'd like to, honestly. I know it's not good for me. But it's part of the gig.) And just to be clear, I'm not going to get in a shouting match with you, now. You've had your say. I've had mine. I'm aware I'm not going to convince you of anything. And in case you were wondering, you're definitely not going to convince me. Feel free to have the last word, if you must. But I'm not going to respond to you again. It's fairly dumb of me to respond to you now, even.

But sometimes I'm just a petty bastard who can't help himself. Even when he knows better.
Greg Weisman
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 3:03:41 pm EDT from 70.227.91.143

Third

I'm Travis Marshall and I'm pleased to wish you a very happy National Hug-A-Newsperson Day
Friendly CIA Spook
Hey, I'm just saying, Cap, if I were God, I'd still want a starship. Just to enjoy driving it. Or to impress women. You know.
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 10:04:55 am EDT from 98.172.113.92

Second, and Ramadan Mubarak!
Karrin Blue
.
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 9:14:00 am EDT from 72.10.127.194

Anyone hear that? Must've been the wind.
Anyway. First!
Matthew
When you return to your unobservable but empirically determined dimension of origin--tell them CARL SAGAN sent you.
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 8:35:42 am EDT from 64.85.245.77

March 31, 2022 was the day Young Justice died. It wasn't bad enough that they waste running time on preaching politics but now they officially submitted to social media trends and validate mental disorders as a way of like?!?! THEY/THEM? THEY/THEM?? Greg and Brandon need to log the fuck off Twitter and go back to focus on a MOTHERFUCKING SUPERHERO SHOW!!!! That scene with Halo felt so disgusting, cringe-worthy and contrived I almost gagged. Ten years from now that dialog will have aged HORRIBLY. Mark my words.

To think this will be Weisman's longest running show. (Make no mistake, there's no chance he'll make 100 episodes on another show.)

This guy is so insecure and desperate for acceptance that he's actively trying to please to EVERYONE! For his sake, I hope these mentally disabled people whom he is pandering to are big in numbers and have a HBO account, because you'll absolutely need them to support your show now. KeepBingingYJ? Pass. Next!

YJ sadly joins the ranks to those shows cancelled too soon but were better off staying cancelled.

RIP Young Justice. You had two good seasons.
No longer a fan
posted @ Mon, Apr 4, 2022 6:19:40 am EDT from 84.17.41.82