[SPOILER] One other thought I had; it seems particularly appropriate for the story of Cain and Abel to get a mention in the "Demona" mini-series. As a consquence of helping to bring about the slaughter of most of her clan, Demona has been roaming the world for a thousand years (something we've certainly seen a lot of in the mini-series), just as Cain, as punishment for killing his brother, was condemned to roam the world. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Nov 7, 2025 7:23:10 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Matthew> [SPOILER] Interesting point about Modi and Coldstone. There are certainly some parallels there. I guess I just see them as all a part of the spectrum. Gargoyles, like humans, are not monolithic. To paraphrase Goliath, there is good and evil in all of them. You certainly have our heroes towards one end of things. Hudson and Broadway feel particularly solid on good side (though no one is perfect!) and you have your Demona and Coldsteel on the other. In the middle, you've got Modi and Coldstone and others. Even Lexington could be found in the middle there somewhere, I think, though he clearly leans good. I think gargoyles have a cultural lens of being protectors, but how that is interpreted varies. I do think Coldstone and Demona and Modi see their actions as fulfilling the role of protector. But yeah, interesting things to ponder. It's worth noting that Magni seemed the most bothered by Modi's actions, of course, but Demona didn't seem to care. She probably agreed with Modi. Again, there's a Coldstone parallel there. [/SPOILER]
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Fri, Nov 7, 2025 8:32:08 am EST from 204.184.178.1

MATTHEW - [SPOILER] I hadn't thought of the parallel between Modi and Coldstone before you mentioned it, but it's a neat idea. Thanks for sharing it with us. [/SPOILER]

I've probably mentioned this here before, but the link between Cain and gargoyles reminds me of the passage in "Beowulf" which made Cain the ancestor of various monstrous beings, including Grendel and his mother; I suspect that the composer of that poem (in the Gargoyles Universe) probably thought gargoyles to also be Cain's descendants. (For that matter, I've wondered whether, in the Gargoyles Universe, Grendel and his mother were the last survivors of a gargoyle clan, turned bitter and hostile towards humans like Demona.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Fri, Nov 7, 2025 8:27:26 am EST from 68.99.93.213

this is an interesting discussion!
bathroom renovation bendigo
posted @ Fri, Nov 7, 2025 3:03:19 am EST from 136.158.8.124

Craig> Didn't think anyone else would remember Futurama's Pazuzu, especially since he was mostly there for a few gags. [SPOILER] Amusingly enough I had actually forgotten about the gargoyles that belonged to DC's Cain and Abel, so I guess we're even on things we've forgotten about.
Oh, something else. You brought up the archivist Abu Jafar Ahmad ibn Yusuf ibn al-Kammad having names from two characters from Disney's Aladdin. The characters from the Disney film got their names from the 1940 film "The Thief of Baghdad" which also had a villainous vizier named Jaffar. [/SPOILER]

Some other thoughts about Demona #4.

[SPOILER] Is it just me or did Modi being revealed as the murderer and turning against the humans seem like an intentional echo of Coldstone betraying the Clan? Both make it pretty clear that they dislike the arraignment that they're currently living in. They strongly distrust the leadership like Modi sleeping in an iron box and Coldstone growing more and more frustrated over having to live under human laws. And their actions cut their rookery brothers the deepest. Might just be me. [/SPOILER]
Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight
posted @ Fri, Nov 7, 2025 3:02:20 am EST from 184.23.35.150

Appreciate everyone's insights. [SPOILER] When Shahrizad is introduced in issue #4, it looks like she's making the Spider-Man web shooting gesture with her hand. Along with the silver bracelets that look like web shooters, I can't unsee it. [/SPOILER]
KC
posted @ Thu, Nov 6, 2025 10:21:36 pm EST from 209.74.237.9

Loving everyone's thoughts on the latest story! Keep it up.

Todd> Thanks for the link. I watched that clip and it seemed very familiar. Sure enough, I scrolled down and found a comment I made on the video five years ago. I quoted "Reawakening".
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Thu, Nov 6, 2025 9:39:52 am EST from 204.184.178.1

Sorry for the double post, but I was recently reminded (thanks to an article in the local newspaper) about a PBS YouTube series about monsters, which did a piece on gargoyles - including ours. Here's a link to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E_RmBMH-6A&t=517s

And (which I forgot to mention in my last post), I was watching a television documentary on pigeons last evening, and it mentioned that they mate for life. I was amused that they had that feature in common with gargoyles, given gargoyles' (admittedly, canon-in-training at present) dislike of them.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 6, 2025 8:24:49 am EST from 68.99.93.213

[SPOILER] I'd missed the "possibly Puck" cameo in the crowd, until it was pointed out. Then I went back and looked for it, and spotted it.

I'd noted Demona's cover-story to explain her longevity, but had forgotten about gargoyles all being hatched at the same time of year until Phoenician reminded me of it. Presumably Al-Kammad was far less knowledgeable about gargoyle life-cycles than about astronomy. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Thu, Nov 6, 2025 8:18:22 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Phoenician > [SPOILER] Re: Skiff Face. Yeah, I'm looking at it again, and it's almost like Weisman/Paur deliberately kept the thing JUST out of frame (page 22 panel 2, page 23 panel 2). The great splash panel of Avalon is from the rear of the skiff, so it could go either way. The one that really killed me is the top panel on the final page. It looks like there's another skiff poking into frame in the foreground, and it VERY clearly has nothing on the prow. But now I'm questioning: Is that supposed to be a skiff, or is it something else? And if it is a skiff, maybe it's the back end as opposed to the prow? I'm not sure. But, zooming in on Tom's skiff in that same panel, and MAYBE the face is there? So perhaps my reports of the death of Skiff Face were an exaggeration, to paraphrase Mark Twain.
[/SPOILER]

And heck yeah, I'm in favor of a Gargoyles/Pazuzu crossover. I know Greg was a big Simpsons fan in the classic era, but I'm not sure if he ever got into Futurama. But the wacky Darkwing Duck crossover seems like a perfectly reasonable opportunity to drop Pazuzu in!
Craig
posted @ Thu, Nov 6, 2025 2:39:29 am EST from 69.118.30.106

Picked up my copies of Demona #4 earlier today and while there I added Gargoyles Meets Darkwing Duck to my pullbox. One of the shop clerks showed interest, and so I shared the story about how Tad Stones and Greg Weisman both contributed in their own ways with each series (Weisman with the name 'Gosalyn' and Stones with focusing the series on just the gargoyle that would be Goliath), and that both would be working on this crossover. Fun stuff.

Anyways, I read this latest issue last night like so many others, and enjoyed both it and reading what's been posted here so far. Some stray thoughts:
[SPOILER] When I saw the collar around Demona's 1195 armor, and my first thought was this was something more close to what I was expecting Cleopatra's Necklace to look like. Of course, that's not a knock on the ultimate design for the talisman (especially since it has a real life counterpart!).

In addition to loving Angelika's latest look and age, the locket was the first thing I noticed. Like a ticking clock that thing . . .

I love murder mysteries. I've read a healthy amount of Agatha Christie (mostly Poirot, but a few standalones), enjoyed the shows Monk and Only Murders in the Building, plus movies like In the Heat of the Night, Thin Man, Knives Out, etc, etc . . . and I can never guess correctly. Never. You'd think the rereads and rewatches would click something for me when I attempted the next story, but alas, nope. At best I can spot the obvious red herrings, but knowing who didn't do it is very much *not* the same as knowing who did. And this issue proved to be no exception. I knew it couldn't be the red herring red-haired gargoyle immortal, but if not her, then WHO?

I too did not notice the blonde haired young adult in the audience. I also admit I did not recognize/notice the potential Puckish figure. I was too busy gauging the mood of the audience, who all seemed to have mixed reactions to Shahrizad's tale. Some intrigued, some confused, others bored. Tough crowd, and none of them are emperor!

I did recognize the echoes of Aladdin, much like Shahrizad's "Italian Tragedy" from Dark Ages. When this page was one of those few teased the day before, I also looked up the names and learned their connection to the Thousand and One Nights. Perhaps Al Diyab's family passed it down the generations until it hit Antoine Galland's ears? Or not. Either way, very cool to give credit to a name not mentioned often enough.

I also appreciated the story taking place in Khaifang, a historical capitol of China, which was only vaguely referred to in the original writings. Nice detail to add.

Also in the preview was the archivist, with a name that quickly revealed his historical foundations as well. Who supposedly died in 1195. Yikes. Well, I know the murder victim, but that was a cheat. Still no closer to the killer.

Loved Demona's lie about gargoyle lifespans, if only because its based on the complete ignorance on Abu Jafar Ahamad Ibn Yusuf Ibn Al-Kammad's part that unlike humans that can be born 1/366 days in the year, gargoyles universally hatch in the Spring Equinox, where the stars don't change position (much) even after centuries. Unless she also meant planetary movement, which will very much shift every twenty years. Not sure the astronomical literacy at this point in the 12th Century, but a scholar like Al-Kammad would know the difference.

Man, I didn't even recognize Tom by his third panel.

Shahrizad and Angelika's interaction reminded me of the fun, well-researched, little book The Book of Lost Books: An Incomplete History of All the Great Books You'll Never Read by Stuart Kelly. I read it a good ten years ago, but still recall how the original dialogues (the first Greek plays with not one person, but TWO people, on stage) were lost to the flames simply because the Library of Alexandria preferred to have the originals and not make copies. I'm glossing over quite a bit, but that's just one example.

Angelika and Magni in the moonlight, wings wide open. Would have loved those NECA figures!

Are the human members of the Varangian Guard wearing horns on their helmets? I know at this point they are not the original generation of Vikings, but oof, someone tell them that. Maybe they play up the appearance much like Ben Franklin wore that coonskin hat in France.

Side note: Demona's 'ruh-roh' look when Alexios accuses her of theft is priceless.

Modi mentioning a Scotsman stranger first had me thinking I missed Macbeth somewhere, again, completely overlooking Tom. A few pages flipped back and I too was also pegging him for a Canmore.

Nice callback to "Fools Rush In..." with Demona reminding everyone not really needing a sword. Speaking of a callback, al-Kammad's death wound was a single sword strike to the back. Where's that weasel Arkil Morel to claim credit when you need him to?

We can now count that during his travels every hundred years Guardian's been apprehended by the local authorities at least twenty percent of the time . . . and it doesn't sound like 1095 was smooth sailing either, lol.

So Guardian's behind bars, and when he finally let's his brogue loose is when I finally clock him. I actually remembered the look of his sword from the series as well. But do I suspect this kind of detail is a potential clue? No, no I do not.

Tangent: one of my favorite bits of canon-in-training was highlighted just not too long ago on Voices from the Eyrie, with the joke that Guardian was so lousy at making the Iron Bell that when Elisa asks who forged his armor (the sword is never mentioned in the gag), Ophelia rushes off to seek the help of the gargoyles who did. Now, 1195 Tom isn't wearing armor (and Raphael and Michael are clearly still hatchlings at this point), but I'm inclined to think that this off-screen gag still holds.

At any rate, we at least have confirmation that Guardian forged his own sword! I wonder if it happened on or off the island (during his first voyage in 1095?). Either way, props on his dedication for some seriously difficult trial and error.

Literally, the hilts are so different. I didn't notice. Argh.

Shahrizad has been known to demonstrate knowledge she couldn't possibly know, most recently with her telling of the "The Tale of the Three Brothers", but at the same time, she's not omniscient (or hasn't admitted to be). I'm inclined to think she isn't, otherwise, why does she love listening to stories as much as telling them? Like the 'until kingdom comes' nature to the mortal spells featured in the series, there's a law of conservation to the nature of Shahrizad's longevity that continues to intrigue.

With the exception of Demona, we enjoy the classic 'everyone in the same room' climax. Still no idea until Shahrizad and Magni puts the pieces together for me. At this point I look back to "Fortune Favors the Brave..." but did not see either Magni or Modi wield twin swords in that issue (Modi did use that axe though).

Couldn't figure out the murderer, but I did pick up what Shahrizad was putting down with that Cain and Abel reference. I swear she must have been part of the troupe that performed The Murder of Gonzago for Hamlet (which its oldest source, the Saxo Grammaticus, is contemporary to this issue's era)!

So is that panel a shot of Demona stealing the true Eye of Odin or planting the fake one while al-Kammad is turned away? I know it clearly serves both purposes in this medium, but my wiki-oriented mind doesn't want to assume d:

It really is such a treat to see Frank Paur design each of Angelika's ages. The one hundred and two years are all evident, and yet it is still very much the same face we saw in 1093.

I think this is the first time we've seen the Aurora over Avalon! I'll refrain from saying borealis or australis since Avalon has no mundane coordinates to speak of.

Craig: I too love the skiff's face, but looking through the issue again, and I just think we weren't privy to a decent angle this time around. First panel and the skiff's face is just out of frame, and the last page is looking at the skiff largely from behind or from a distance. [/SPOILER]

Can't wait for the next issue! Also,

Pazuzu! Hey these days, Futurama is technically Disney, right? Sounds like another sandbox to play in d:
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Thu, Nov 6, 2025 1:59:25 am EST from 68.2.64.232

Unfortunately I don't have much to add in regards to the new issue, but I did want to say:
Craig > [SPOILER] Your comment about Demona being around so long that places she's excised herself from revisiting eventually become new to her altogether is something I hadn't even thought of. Most stories of time travel or tales that are centuries-long don't get the chance to have an immortal character be there for such changes, let alone it also allowing us as the viewer or reader witness those experiences. Though I sometimes lose track of when and what's exactly happening across the many different locales and time periods we've seen through Demona's travels, it's something you really never see elsewhere. Really you could go on to tell hundreds of stories from this angle alone, and I guess that's what makes me end up appreciating the vast reaches that the Gargoyles storyline(s) ends up having. [/SPOILER]

In other news, I had a dream where Griff showed up. Makes sense, he's my favorite non-main gargoyle, but it's not that often fictional characters show up directly in them. I don't even remember what it was about, other than that he flew in front of me and smiled...
Kate
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 9:57:43 pm EST from 208.102.156.56

Todd > [SPOILER] An easy mistake to make! With Matthew's knowledge of comic book lore, it could have easily been him. And I was annoyed when Matthew made the Futurama post, that I hadn't remembered that (very amusing) bit before he mentioned it.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 7:22:05 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

CRIAG - [SPOILER] Whoops, thanks for setting that straight! Matthew mentioned a gargoyle in "Futurama" instead, and I'd gotten the two posts confused. [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 7:11:02 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Todd > [SPOILER] Actually, I was the one who mentioned the DC Comics Cain earlier yesterday. :) I also was very amused by the coincidence, in my sleep-deprived state reading the comic.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 7:06:36 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

[SPOILER] I'd looked up the name of the Aladdin-counterpart protagonist of Shahrizad's story, and found out about the real Diyab that way even before Craig's review, but hadn't known that al-Kammad was a historical figure as well. Thanks for sharing that with us, Craig.

And it struck me as amusing that Matthew brought up a pet gargoyle of Cain's just before this issue came out, where Shahrizad's planning to tell the tale of Cain and Abel in response to her suspicions about Alexius. (Maybe that's why Alexius only had Isaac imprisoned and blinded, but not put to death, after overthrowing him; he might have become afraid to kill him after being reminded of what befell Cain after killing his brother.) [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 6:55:03 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

As promised, my thoughts on Demona #4.

[SPOILER]
One of the delights of this series is seeing the variations on Demona's outfit/armor for each era/setting. And I appreciate that the cover artists have been (more or less) following Frank's designs on each issue.

I love the detail that Demona doesn't like to return to places she's been. She truly burns every bridge after she crosses it. After 1000 years though, I assume she eventually ran out of new places...or maybe the old places eventually changed enough that they felt new.

Very cool and unexpected to see Shahrizad, and yet it immediately feels so right. Frank does a great job drawing her. Shari and Angelika as detectives is the team-up I didn't know I needed. Also amusing to see the story of "Aladdin" referenced in the 'Gargoyles' universe, since Disney's 'Aladdin' joined The Disney Afternoon the same year as 'Gargoyles.'

"Youhanna al Diyab," the protagonist's name in this version of the "Aladdin" tale, is presumably a reference to Antun Yusuf Hanna Diyab. An 18th-century Syrian man, Diyab lived a truly fascinating life, but his greatest claim to fame is that in 1709, in Paris, he told Antoine Galland the stories of "Aladdin" and "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves." Galland was then in the midst of the lengthy process of translating the 'Thousand and One Nights' into French. Neither "Aladdin" nor "Ali Baba" were part of the 'Nights' prior to Galland adding them, after being told the tales by Diyab, and some scholars have argued that Diyab may actually have conceived of these stories himself. Of course, Shari can't actually be referring to the real Diyab, since he wouldn't be born for another 500 years, but it's a nice Easter egg.

Like Matt, my eye immediately went to the smirking Puck-like figure in the last panel of page 3. I did clock the blond dude as well, since Bevard's coloring/lighting did a nice job of drawing the eye where it was supposed to go. But Puck(?)'s 'Where's Waldo' moment was definitely the first thing I noticed.

The "archivist" and murder victim Abu Jafar Ahmad ibn Yusuf ibn al-Kammad is a real historical figure (it is mildly amusing to note that his name contains the names of two characters from Disney's 'Aladdin'). Al-Kammad was a famed astronomer; but apparently, little else is known about his life. Some sources indicate that he did indeed die in 1195. I haven't found any reference to him being linked to Emperor Isaac II, and I'm assuming that both his employment in the Byzantine palace and his murder are inventions of Greg's.

I love Demona's little B.S. lie about the positions of the stars determining gargoyle lifespans, playing right into al-Kammad's interests. She's a sly one.

Am I crazy, or is Demona being a bit seductive with al-Kammad in that last panel on page 4? And he seems like he's into it!

Cute to see Angelika use the endearment "Querido" for Magni. Given that she was raised as a nomad and seemingly hasn't stayed in any place too long, I assume she's incorporated turns of phrase from the various places she's been.

Have we seen Angelika express an interest in storytelling before? It's a nice character beat, but it seems to come out of nowhere.

We once again get a hint, as in Quest #2, that Shahrizad's life literally depends on telling stories (and not finishing them). Obviously, this is a play on her circumstances in the original text. But it also seems increasingly likely that, in the 'Gargoyles' universe, the storytelling is somehow inextricably linked to her immortality.

Interesting that Magni and Modi are still using the iron box for protection (or, at least, Modi is).

Angelika doesn't seem at all freaked out that Shari knows her name. Perhaps Angelika introduced herself between panels, but it comes off as slightly odd the way it's staged here.

I love the "life is short" exchange.

Another great line, when Demona says she's a long way from even the MEMORY of home.

You really get a sense of how much Demona loves Angelika, that she's willing to suffer the great indignity of subjugating herself to human justice (for a little while anyway) in order to placate her daughter.

Given that it's impossible to read the line "make it so" without hearing Jean-Luc Picard, I have to imagine Greg had Patrick Stewart in his head when writing Emperor Isaac.

Matt > It's strongly implied that Alexios was the one who suborned Modi into stealing the Eye. Although I'm not entirely sure why...simply for its power, I suppose, since (as Todd informed us a couple of weeks ago) Alexios will in very short order seize the throne from his brother.

I did note an amusing little twist that I assume was intentional by Greg. As Todd told us, the real historical Alexios blinded his brother, and although we don't see that happen, we do get Alexios attempting to take Isaac's Eye!

I LOVE Demona's grin at the top of page 20 when Angelika sees through her ruse. She's so proud of herself.

Count me as another person very curious about the Eye's journey from the bottom of the Bosporus to Xanatos's hands.

I will admit that I did not pick up on Tom's identity at all until the big reveal. I was just too swept up in everything else going on to give it too much thought. So I was really blown away when he began that familiar incantation.

Gorgeous reveal of Avalon there. All the kudos to Frank and Robby. Yet another shot in this miniseries worthy of being a poster.

One minor quibble, though...as in Quest, it appears that the weird face on the skiffs' prows has been retconned out of existence? I love that creepy face and hoped we'd learn more about it someday. I wonder what the logic is in getting rid of it.
[/SPOILER]

Once again, this series is shaping up to be an all-time great in the 'Gargoyles' pantheon, and I'll be very sad to see it end.
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 4:08:52 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

As usual, I waited up late for the digital version of the latest chapter to drop. Glad I did. I was not dissapointed. I've chatted with Bishansky and Phoenician a bit about this, but here are my first thoughts on Demona #4:

[SPOILER] - We are back in Constantinople. No surprise there given the solicitations. While Demona doesn't like to return to prior haunts, I do, so I am glad to see it again. I love that Angelika has now clearly passed Demona in biological age. Surely that is what has Demona starting to become concerned for her daughter. One of the curses of immortality, I suppose. Perhaps lessons learned from growing close to Angelika is what has Demona reluctant to be close to anyone else down the road.

-The title for this chapter, "From the Ranks...", should've been a clue to our culprit, but I admit I was too drawn in by the story and the eye candy to give the title any thought until this morning.

- In the palace we find a few expected familiar faces, Magni and Modi, and an unexpected face as well: our old friend Shari. It isn't that I was surprised to see her exactly, she just seems to pop up a lot when and where you don't expect her to be. And off she goes with another tale for her large audience. My eyes went right to a character in the audience that looks just like Puck. I don't know if it is him or not. Maybe this was a little tidbit Greg and Frank threw in for fun or maybe this isn't Puck at all. But that is who I couldn't unsee. Hilariously, whether he is the Puck or not, he drew my eyes away from what was front and center. I didn't look twice at the young man in front until subsequent viewings.

- Meanwhile, Demona is playing nice with the resident treasurer/archivist/astrologer. She even drops Xanatos's line at one point. When Demona is being this chummy with a human, you know she's up to no good. I like her line about gargoyle lifespans. A total lie, of course, but a convenient way to avoid the question of her longevity. i found it interesting she introduced herself as Angel. Was that to hide her true name? Why would that matter? I like that she's using the name Angel, but unsure of her motives with it. Later, when she says their exchange was "enlightening", it makes me wonder if the Archivist is an Illuminatus...

- Back in the Emperor's hall, our "Storyteller" does her usual "story for another night" bit. She "can and must" end the tale in the middle of it. Interesting that. We keep getting hints, but we really need a story to explain her powers and what they do and why she does them. I love seeing Magni and Angelika's reunion. More about them later. Then we get one of my favorite pages. The first panel with Modi and the young man didn't mean much to me, but when we got to their second panel I gasped suddenly realizing who the man was! I was pretty psyched and I love how perfectly this works out. Here we are in 1195, two hundred years since The Eggs were taken to Avalon, and here we have Tom on his, presumably, second trek from the island. In "Avalon", Tom told Goliath he went out every hundred years to see if Goliath had awakened, but Greg always said the bigger reason was actually to see if the world was safe for gargoyles. Now that is canon, at last. greg also told us that he had fairly solid ideas for all of Tom's excursions, but I wonder in how much detail he had planned all of this out. Regardless, I LOVE Modi's response to Tom's questions: "I sleep in an iron box. No gargoyle is safe in this world." It is so tragic and so true. I get an element of Goliath's line "We live. We do not thrive." We are long past the Age of Gargoyles and the ones hanging on are clearly not exactly thriving. Meanwhile, the "Storyteller" and Angelika are becoming friends which is nice.

- Magni and Angelika pick up right where they left off. Very sweet. But they are older now. They made their choices and perhaps have their regrets, but I regret that they are too old to parent an egg together. They missed that window. I would've liked to know that their lineage survived out there somewhere, but I guess that is pretty human of me.

- Then we come to the murder. I knew this chapter was going to be a murder mystery and wondered if I'd figure it out. I've never been very good at such things and we have a room full of potential suspects. Clearly Demona is the obvious culprit (and therefore not likely to be correct) and then Tom was suggested (and I was fairly certain that wasn't right either). But whodunit? The Emperor's brother seemed surly enough, I guess. That was my best idea at this stage. I think Angelika and Shari are a fun detective duo.

- We get an incredibly fun and interesting scene of Tom and Demona in the cells. I chuckled when Tom said his sword was difficult to forge. That is a deep cut joke for sure. I also wonder that "mess" he got himself in in 1095. Demona confers with her fellow Scottish neighbor with no idea how they both have their origins at Wyvern and by some definitions are family. Tom seems to recognize Demona. He only met her briefly at Wyvern and that was a long time ago. Perhaps he is seeing some of Angela in her. I wonder how much he remembers of this encounter when Demona attacks Avalon down the line. I figure it was Magus and Katharine that IDed her as Goliath's Second, but did her appearance raise Tom's eyebrow as well?

- Angelika and Shari continue their investigation. They are being clever. More clever than Modi thought to be (apparently). I did not catch Modi's inflection here because I'm not clever either. But worse, when he revealed the "Scotsman's sword" I was annoyed since it was clearly not the correct sword. I knew they had shown Tom's sword correctly earlier, so chalked this up to an art error. I feel bad that I assumed it was an art error before seeing that it was a clue. Oh well. Like I said, I'm no detective. Good on Shari for realizing that the conclusion was neither satisfying or logical.

- Time for sentencing and Modi is all for it. Guess he found the perfect pawn to place the blame upon. I appreciate that his character is more fleshed out now. In Chapter 2, he certainly came across a bit stoic and pragmatic, but now he really leans into it. Pretty jaded dude, really. And not cool that he's prepared to kill someone he knows to be innocent (and someone who has always shown him respect). Fortunately, Shari makes a demand for poetic justice (the Pukhan Clan would approve!) and from there Modi's scheme unravels. The true owner of the sword is revealed and Matt feels like a dummy. Modi reveals his dissatisfaction. But to kill a man that has nothing to do with all of this? Yeesh. Seems Modi also wanted to return the Eye to his homeland. Modi flees. I wonder what became of him. Did he make it home with his prize? If so, what did he find there? I suspect we won't find out soon if ever. Cool design. Not a good gargoyle. Later, Modi.

- We come to our conclusion. Shari guesses Modi was hired or coerced or partnered with someone to obtain the Eye. Who knows? I have suspicions, I guess. Angelika knows her mother well and Demona gets her little Demona Tag where she reveals to have taken the true Eye of Odin before the murder! She offers it to Angelika to provide her immortality. I wonder what would've happened to Angelika if she had chosen to don the Eye. Probably not someone Demona would've recognized. Something to ponder. Instead though, Angelika asks Magni to finally join her as a mate. With that secured she decides she doesn't need the Eye or immortality. A brave move. It seems she sees immortality as a curse and not a blessing. Something her and Demona do not see eye to eye on (no pun intended). Angelika tosses the Eye into the Sea. I wonder how it will find its way to Xanatos. Another story we may not know the answer to for a long time. And the finale. I had barely gotten over seeing Tom an bam! The Avalon spell, the island itself, and Angela! My math says that they came to the island (from their perspective) only 8-9 years ago. That makes Tom in his late teens. That checks out to me. Late teens might be a kid to us, but that would be a young adult by 1195 standards. As for Angela, if Greg holds to The Eggs' 1058 hatch year, then Angela hatched 5-6 years ago. I guess she reads close enough to toddler age to me. Very cute. Loved Tom's words to Angela. World isn't ready for them yet "my egg." And "no one out there knows to miss you." Ugh, brutal. We close on a worried look on Demona's face. And a promised "Fatal Finale" to come. Brace yourself, folks.

I greatly enjoyed this chapter. Probably one of my favorites of the Dynamite era. Even though I was pretty dense to the mystery, the characterizations and surprises of this chapter are amazing. And the art continues to be top notch. Really awesome! Looking forward to (and slightly dreading) Chapter 5! [/SPOILER]

Those are my thoughts. Where are yours?
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 2:19:38 pm EST from 204.184.178.1

In the Craft Sequence books - set in a world where necromancers have overthrown the gods of the world back in the 1900s - there's a clan of gargoyles in not-New York City. They start as a sort of obstacle to our heroine, the necromancer-lawyer Tara Abernathy, and become allies. They're the sacred creations of the fallen goddess of the Moon, and we get to know them - especially Aev, the tiger-headed first and Shale, the youngest (though still over a hundred years old) - over the rest of the series.
Karrin Blue
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 1:40:06 pm EST from 72.10.127.194

Remember. remember
The Fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot
I see no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.

My thoughts on "Demona" #4.

[SPOILER] Greg Weisman said that there'd be some unexpected guest stars in this mini-series, and he was right about this one. First Shahrizad turns up (telling what seems to be a variant of the tale of Aladdin at court, and serving as a great commentator on events) - but the even bigger surprise was who the young Scotsman was. For a moment, I thought he was the current Canmore Hunter (even though I wasn't seriously expecting them until the final issue), but when he showed signs of recognizing Demona, in a non-hostile manner, I began to suspect his true identity - and it fitted with the year (exactly two centuries after they took shelter on Avalon). I hadn't expected getting glimpses of Tom's past visits to the outside world, but it's another of those things that, once it happens, makes so much sense that you're surprised you hadn't considered the possibility earlier).

I'll say more about this when I've had another reread, but we got a great murder mystery (I hadn't expected Modi as the murderer), and some equally great drama with Angelika and Magni - particularly the moment where Angelika rejects the Eye of Odin and throws it away.

And (though I don't know if that'll be mentioned in #5 or not - as I mentioned in a post here a few weeks ago, things are not going to go well for the Emperor and his brother, though we don't know yet whether Demona, Angelika, and Magni will remain in Constantinople long enough to witness the fallout.... [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 8:45:54 am EST from 68.99.93.213

Todd> Can't forget Pazuzu from Futurama, the traitorous gargoyle that the Professor put through college. (No, there is no context for any of this)

Anyway, some quick thoughts on Demona #4

[SPOILER] We're back to Istanbul and something I just noticed, one of the most effective parts of the series is having Demona be the center point over a constantly changing story. The settings, the background, the cultures, the leaders and now even her adopted daughter, all have changed except her. For the first time in ages she's gone back to some place she's been before (something Angelika lampshades) and is brought into a world of political intrigue that's unfamiliar with because she left that behind years ago.

But the big piece on why though is revealed, she wants the Eye of Odin to make her daughter immortal and I can guess that's been a pressing issue in the back of her mind for some time. Angelika looks to be on the tail end of middle aged and it won't be long before she passes on. As we saw so many years ago the greatest fear, the greatest regret and the truest thing that weighs on her heart is that Demona doesn't want to be alone. And when Angelika casts the Eye away and has Magni join with her, that loneliness begins to creep back in. The duo has become a trio. And one day it will be back to being a solo... [/SPOILER]

I could go on but it's late and I have plenty to do tomorrow. I'll be back with more later. Until then, can't wait for the finale.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 4:37:48 am EST from 184.23.35.150

I've read Demona #4 twice, and more than ever, I'm convinced that this miniseries is Greg's greatest masterpiece in the 'Gargoyles' comic book realm so far. Just truly epic. I'll have more thoughts tomorrow when I get a chance, because I need to sleep now. But all I will say for now is that [SPOILER] I absolutely love that we got a canon joke about Tom's terrible forging skills! [/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Wed, Nov 5, 2025 1:30:45 am EST from 69.118.30.106

Here are a few books on gargoyles I've read or encountered, that weren't on the TV Tropes list.

NIGHT OF THE GARGOYLES, by Eve Bunting. A children's picture book about a group of gargoyles on a museum who come to life at night, and like frolicking about (particularly by the fountain outside the library) and pranking the hapless night watchman (who tries to tell his superiors about the gargoyles, but they won't believe him; he struck me as almost a Vinnie-counterpart).

THE LAST GARGOYLE, by Paul Durham. The title character is a gargoyle in Boston named Penhallow, who protects the city from various malevolent magical beings; he's the only one left, since all the other gargoyles in the city were slaughtered by these same creatures, now gathering under a new leader, the Boneless King. (The book mentions that there are gargoyles in New York - probably based more on there actually being a lot of architectural gargoyles in New York than on the television series - who look down on their Boston "kinsfolk".)

ANTHONY AND THE GARGOYLE, by Jo Ellen Bogart. Also a children's picture books, but with no words. A very charming story about a little boy who finds a stone that's really a gargoyle egg, and befriends the baby gargoyle who hatches from it - and it brings in the gargoyles of Notre Dame Cathedral.

THE FARTHEST-AWAY MOUNTAIN, by Lynne Reid Banks. The main character is a young girl who has a few ambitions in life, one of which is to meet a gargoyle (her family scoffs at this goal, believing that if you look at a gargoyle, you'll turn to stone - which turns out not to be true). She encounters three gargoyles in the pursuit of another of her goals, visiting the mysterious Farthest-Away Mountain - though it turns out that they're actually trolls (here, dwarf-like people) turned into living gargoyles by an evil witch.

THE ACCIDENTAL ALCHEMIST, by Gigi Pandian. The first of a series, though I haven't read the other books in it yet, just this one. The alchemist of the title (an immortal alchemist named Zoe Faust) meets and befriends a living gargoyle from France named Dorian Robert-Houdin, who's an expert chef.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 4, 2025 6:58:40 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Todd > Very fun project idea! A couple more that spring to mind, that I didn't see listed on TV Tropes...

In DC Comics, the biblical Cain has a pet gargoyle named Gregory. Cain acted as host of DC's horror anthology 'House of Mystery' beginning with #175 in 1968, and Gregory's ostensible origin story is told in that same issue, in a story titled "The House of Gargoyles" (which has a lot in common with Clark Ashton Smith's "The Maker of Gargoyles"). Gregory is probably best-known today for his appearances in Neil Gaiman's 'Sandman,' where he appears alongside Cain and Abel...and Abel also has his own pet baby gargoyle, Goldie. Gregory and Goldie also appear on the recent Netflix TV series adaptation of 'Sandman.'

Speaking of Gaiman, there's an anthology book called 'In the Shadow of the Gargoyle' published in 1998, which is made up entirely of short stories about gargoyles by various authors, some in a fantasy vein, mostly in a horror vein. (Based on the timing of its late-'90s publication, I can't help but wonder if this collection was somewhat inspired by Disney's 'Gargoyles.') Most of the stories were specifically commissioned for the collection (including Gaiman's, a fairly dark story about infidelity), but a couple are reprints, including a very short and gruesome Harlan Ellison story about gargoyles on St. Patrick's Cathedral coming to life due to pollution. I recall not being too enamored with most of the stories, but it's a fascinating curiosity anyway.
Craig
posted @ Tue, Nov 4, 2025 1:17:57 pm EST from 69.118.30.106

Todd> Just thought I'd add this to your list: In the Enchanted Forest Chronicles Series by Patricia C. Wrede, the King of the Enchanted Forest has a wooden gargoyle that is perched in the rafters of his study and offers sarcastic commentary. Or that is what I can best recall. I liked those books when I was a teenage, but have not read them in decades.
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Tue, Nov 4, 2025 11:33:22 am EST from 204.184.178.1

MATTHEW - I remember (just) that gargoyle. (Someone once wrote a fanfic crossover between that Spiderman cartoon and "Gargoyles" where "Bruce" turned out to be Broadway in stone sleep; the author thought that Bruce looked rather Broadway-ish.)

I wonder what led to the production team choosing "Bruce" for that gargoyle's name. A reference to another urban crime-fighter (who even - see my last post - has been compared to gargoyles)? If so, it wasn't the last time that a Spiderman animated series would use such a joke, in light of Black Cat adopting "Selena" as an alias in "The Spectacular Spider-Man".
Todd Jensen
posted @ Tue, Nov 4, 2025 8:31:00 am EST from 68.99.93.213

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https://nationaltechtools.com
posted @ Tue, Nov 4, 2025 12:30:55 am EST from 103.113.217.202

Sorry I haven't been present much, had a memorial not to long ago and that's taken a lot out of me.

Todd> [SPOILER] Yes, the Grey Gargoyle is one of Thor's older foes. Back in the Journey into Mystery comics before issues were wholly written around single characters they would throw all kinds of threats and villains at the heroes, whether they fit into the hero's theme or not. [/SPOILER]

Also a fun bit, back in the 90's animated Spider-Man series (which had Ed Asner as J. Jonah Jameson), Peter would often vent his life troubles to a gargoyle he named Bruce.
Matthew the Fedora Guy
You're Gonna Carry That Weight
posted @ Mon, Nov 3, 2025 9:15:28 pm EST from 184.23.35.150

There's a link to the TV Tropes page "Our Gargoyles Rock", which offers a list of many treatments of gargoyles in various media. I decided to look through it and share some of the gargoyles on the list; I haven't gone over every single one, just the ones I have some familiarity with. I'll be following that in a later post with other fictional gargoyles I've come across who weren't on that page.

COMIC BOOKS: It includes [SPOILER] the Grey Gargoyle - though no mention of Isaac Christians. According to the TV Tropes site, the Grey Gargoyle was one of Thor's villains; I don't know if that's accurate or not. [/SPOILER] It also mentioned Gotham City having plenty of gargoyles (which doesn't surprise me; they'd definitely fit its atmosphere), and that there was a Batman comic once which explored them from Batman's perspective, including what uses he makes of them (and adding that Batman has much in common with gargoyles: both seem scary, but are actually protectors. (Which might inspire more discussions here on "Gargoyles" and "Batman".)

FILM - ANIMATION: It included both Czernobog from "Fantasia" and the gargoyles from "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". Both of whom we'd be likely to think of when considering gargoyles in Disney animated movies. (I recall a "Disney Adventures" comic in which the trio had seen "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" with Elisa, and were very critical about its depiction of gargoyles.)

FILM - LIVE ACTION: The one movie on the list that I knew much about was the 1972 "Gargoyles" movie that morrand discussed here a few weeks ago. Though it also mentioned a movie called "Tales From the Darkside" which featured a female gargoyle who can shape-shift into a human and marries the main character; I recall that one being described here some years ago. (The description suggested a Japanese folk-tale I'd come across once, where the gargoyle's counterpart was the Yuki-onna or "snow woman".)

LITERATURE: Clark Ashton Smith's "The Maker of Gargoyles" was one of these. A few others (the ones I'm most familiar with) included:

The gargoyles from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series (I was amused to note that one was named after its perch - "Cornice overlooking Broadway".)

"God Bless the Gargoyles", a children's picture book which depicted gargoyles, despite their protector-roles, being mistreated by humans to their sorrow, until angels come to comfort them. I remember that book being read to the younger children at the 2001 Gathering (and maybe other Gatherings as well) - and a "Gargoyles" fanfic where Billy and Susan's mother was protesting that book being read in schools (which sounds very contemporary).

Gargoyles at Hogwarts in the Harry Potter series.

H. P. Lovecraft's "night-gaunts" as gargoyle-analogues (appropriate to bring up here, given Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith as colleagues whose "weird fiction" overlapped.

One of L. Frank Baum's sequels to "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz", "Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz", included gargoyles (or beings called gargoyles, at least). Dorothy and the Wizard are reunited for a "subterranean Earth" adventure after they both get caught (separately) in an earthquake in California (Baum clearly adapted Dorothy's means of getting transported to strange settings to match which part of the country she was in). The gargoyles here are made out of wood rather than stone (the closest parallel to that in "Gargoyles" would be Raven's "totem-beasts" in "Heritage"), are silent, and even fear loud noises (which means you can keep them at bay by shouting - until your voice gets hoarse, upon which they close in....); they also have detachable wings, which offers Dorothy, the Wizard, and the rest of the group (a cousin of Dorothy's in California, his horse, and Dorothy's very snooty pet cat Eureka - no mention of how she got along or didn't with Toto, who was back in Kansas at the time)a means of escape.

"The Stoneheart Trilogy" by Charlie Fletcher, a children's fantasy trilogy. A couple of children get caught in the middle of a struggle between the statues of London, human statues on one side, gargoyles on the other - with the gargoyles being portrayed as malevolent. (The human statues include one of the original Boudicca, by the way - an actual statue of her in London.)

LIVE ACTION TV: It included a living gargoyle from "Doctor Who", also a villainous one (in the service of Azal the Daemon, from one of the big episodes of "Doctor Who" back in the early 70's), alongside the Weeping Angels (who certainly felt "gargoyle-ish" to me).

WESTERN ANIMATION: Besides our gargs, of course, it included a third villainous gargoyle, the one from "Adventures of the Gummi Bears" (appropriate, given that that show was a part-inspiration for "Gargoyles" -I remember a sound-clip from that episode even being used in one of the early podcasts of "Voices From the Eyrie").

As I said, in a later post, I'll be including fictional treatments of gargoyles that I've come across that aren't on the list.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 3, 2025 7:38:05 pm EST from 68.99.93.213

Second!

Six months ago today, Demona #0 came out for FCBD! Looking forward to #4 late tomorrow night!
Matt
"My daughter?! How dare you mock me! I have no daughter." - Demona, 1996
posted @ Mon, Nov 3, 2025 8:21:31 am EST from 69.229.197.48

First.

I've been thinking increasingly of starting a list of "living gargoyles" in various works of fiction (whether books, comics, movies, television) besides the gargoyles of "Gargoyles", particularly inspired by the recent encounters, first with Clark Ashton Smith's "The Maker of Gargoyles" ("Demona" #3 has been out long enough that we probably don't need the spoiler tags for it any more), then [SPOILER] Marvel's Grey Gargoyle and Isaac Christians [/SPOILER]. Most of them aren't in the public domain, so I doubt we'll be seeing the Manhattan clan encountering them (at least, not in the Dynamite comics), but it'd be fun to compare them with these gargoyles.

I'll be sharing some of these as the week continues. (And, of course, "Demona" #4 comes out this week.)
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Nov 3, 2025 8:04:32 am EST from 68.99.93.213