Goliath and Elisa> [SPOILER] I also think that a Commitment Ceremony is years off. Things are a lot simpler and more traditional for Broadway and Angela. They don't have their feet in two different worlds and they don't have the eyes of the world on them. Admitting to each other their feelings was a big step that took years. Admitting to the world their feelings took another year and only came about because circumstances forced it a bit. I think both Goliath and Elisa want to be together, but making that public acknowledgement is likely to take some time. [/SPOILER]
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Tue, Apr 23, 2024 11:29:15 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

A happy Bard's Day to everyone! The big ol' 460 today.

Blaise:[SPOILER] Had to look again at Brooklyn's horn. Eagle eyes, you. [/SPOILER]

Goliath and Elisa: [SPOILER] When it comes to their own Commitment Ceremony, even if they are already committed to one another in the practical sense, I don't think it unreasonable to think that it'll take time for them to reach that particular step in their relationship. It took 65 episodes for Elisa even to kiss Goliath. But hey, who knows who will be catching the proverbial bouquet at Angela and Broadway's. [/SPOILER]

Todd: [SPOILER] Castaway and Demona unintentionally agreeing on anything is bound to make them hate each other even more, I reckon d: [/SPOILER]
Phoenician
Gus: "I always forget you're there." Hooty: "I forget I'm here toooooo."
posted @ Tue, Apr 23, 2024 10:39:08 am EDT from 72.216.220.229

It's already been two months since we've gotten the solicitation for the last issue of Quest, but we still have nothing about the 12-issues series that Weisman confirmed is to follow, not even the title; I have two theories about why that might be:
1)Dynamite decided to space things out a bit in-between their Gargoyles series, so we'll have to wait a few months before the next run begins.
2)Something big is going to happen in the next run (time-skip?) that Weisman doesn't want to be spoiled yet, so he asked Dynamite to refrain from writing solicitations for now.
Thoughts?
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Tue, Apr 23, 2024 6:37:34 am EDT from 79.52.70.64

Craig > [SPOILER] You're right about how Tasers work, but that, I think, is not a Taser but an old-school stun gun, which doesn't have darts. And which therefore is typically more permissible for civilian use.

I agree that this doesn't help with the disjointedness: it is even more unclear what exactly is supposed to "hoit", or more specifically whether Elisa or Goliath got to Evil Archie first. Maybe it doesn't matter that much, but even a bit of a "crackle" sound effect from off-frame during Vinnie's line would clear things up. Oh well. [/SPOILER]

The more I think of it, the more I think of things (or one thing, specifically) that didn't work for me with the latest issue. But I want to digest "Manhattan" #12 before I dive into that, 'cause I need to get caught up and it may set that right.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 11:25:25 pm EDT from 99.74.15.252

Blaise > Great thoughts on the issue as always. A few quick responses to your thoughts, live from here in fabulous Walt Disney World (where I have seen neither hide nor hair of a Gargoyle, unfortunately...)

[SPOILER]
Under the assumption that Jade and Turquesa have had multiple stops on their World Tour, I simply took their dialogue about the amulets to mean that they had spent some time on Avalon on their most recent stop. So, resuming use of the amulets again will be a bit like having "jet lag," adjusting to a new biological pattern again (or, more accurately, an old biological pattern). I figured they've maybe gone through this process a few times, going back and forth to Avalon.

One of the reasons the action on Page 20 confused me was that tasers involve firing two darts connected by copper wires to the taser itself. There is no evidence that Elisa ever actually fired her taser, perhaps simply because (as you say) they weren't allowed to show it, but it leaves the action rather disjointed, and with the appearance that Elisa charged up her taser and never actually fired it.

I agree with you and others that Goliath and Thailog looked a bit odd in panels, especially the chin. This would be my one and only other quibble with the art (other than the disjointedness of Page 20, although I now think that was more a script/censorship problem, not an art one). Everything else was exceptional, and I honestly don't mind Qualano taking a slightly more stylized approach to Goliath, even if it looks a bit unusual. I quite liked the use of Ben Day dots occasionally to indicate shading, which gave a bit of an old-school comic book style to the art that I enjoyed.
[/SPOILER]
Craig
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 10:41:40 pm EDT from 207.190.29.31

CARUMBOZABUMBO - [SPOILER] I agree with you that Goliath and Elisa don't have any in-story reason to delay their commitment ceremony for long, but from a pacing perspective, I think it would be a good idea to have a few issues between Broadway and Angela's commitment ceremony and theirs. And I also think that it would make a good 30th anniversary event. [/SPOILER]

The trade paperback of "Gargoyles: Here in Manhattan Volume One" arrived in my mailbox today; I've only glanced through it so far (focusing on the new material, such as the "making of pages" at the back, but I've liked what I've seen so far.
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 9:38:07 pm EDT from 174.72.60.154

Blaise - Thank you very much.

Todd - [SPOILER] Realistically, how long would it make sense for Goliath and Elisa to wait before they get their own CC? I agree that Greg will let some time pass from Broadway and Angela's (unless he decides to go full romantic comedy and have them marry on the spot, but that's unlikely), but by this point G&E have accepted that they are each other's One & Only and their relationship is known to the public, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to wait overmuch, IMO.

You know, it just occurred to me that Goliath and Elisa's Commitment Ceremony might make for a fitting 30th Anniversary Special... [/SPOILER]
CarumboZabumbo
Noi siamo le creature della notte! Noi siamo... i Gargoyles!
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 2:08:09 pm EDT from 79.52.70.64

Fifth! Great thoughts, Blaise. Love the "Next Time on Gargoyles" reference!
Matt
"And, thus, given no choice, we waited..." - Alesand, "The Reach"
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 10:59:35 am EDT from 204.184.178.1

BLAISE - Thanks for your review.

[SPOILER] Your comment on Goliath's grand voice reminded me of how, a few days ago, I'd watched a set of spring-themed Mickey Mouse cartoons on the Disney Channel whose narrator had sounded familiar; I checked the ending credits, and yes, it was Keith David.

Incidentally, I'm now wondering what Goliath and Elisa's commitment ceremony (when its time comes - probably not for a while, in order to space it out from Broadway and Angela's commitment ceremony) will be like, now that their relationship is public knowledge. I can just imagine the media trying to cover it in full "media circus" style - not to mention what the response of Castaway and his fellow gargoyle-haters would be. (I remember, many years ago, somebody conjuring up the image here of Castaway and Demona both bursting in from opposite doors to protest - followed by their complete astonishment at actually agreeing on something.) [/SPOILER]
Todd Jensen
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 9:30:04 am EDT from 174.72.60.154

Third, again, and good morning to the room. And what a fine morning it is, because I've just been informed that, at long last, "Here in Manhattan" #12 should be landing in my mailbox later today. I look forward to being able to see, finally, what everyone thought of it, assuming it does not get eaten by a chupacabra or something (which would figure, given how hard it's been to get the thing sent).

Speaking of which--what people thought, not chupacabras--nice write-up, Blaise, as always.
morrand - [morrand276 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 8:35:56 am EDT from 99.74.15.252

****A stained-glass window appears in mid-air, hanging there for just a couple of seconds before Blaise comes flying through, shattering it. He very quickly falls to the floor, however, with bits of glass on and *in* him. He slowly stands up, making very pained noises as he does so.****
WHY do people keep going through windows in fiction?! It is always more painful than it looks!

Oh well--SECOND!

CARUMBOZABUMBO> Hello and welcome to the Comment Room!


And now the new comic...
QUEST: QUESTIONS> [SPOILER] We’re dropped into the new story with Jade and Turquesa on their own sort of “Avalon World Tour.” One of the advantages of the comic over the animated series, I feel, is that we can more easily have characters speaking in non-English languages--no need to find multi-lingual actors and worry that subtitles will turn people off (though with sound mixes these days, subtitles are becoming the default...), just make the text italic, put it in angle brackets and add a little note saying “translated from [language].”
(That said, I love it when animated series *do* go the extra mile and do that stuff!)
There is a mention of not being able to take the pendants onto Avalon, so I guess they did leave them on the barge at the “gates of Avalon” (we know non-Avalonian items can go that far, at least). From their dialogue it sounds like this is the first time they’ve been able to make use of their pendants, but Turquesa almost makes it sound like they’ve been trying to get back home for a while. If the latter is the case, I find myself wondering if their first time or two trying to get back home they either couldn’t get their pendants for some reason or even forgot they no longer had them (like forgetting your watch or something when leaving home). Or maybe all their previous adventures just took place at night.

Either way, Avalon sends them to witness the arrival of one Dominique Destine at a mansion in Buenos Aires. She is there to meet Dona Anapaula Aguilar, an older woman with a collection of antiquities (inherited from her late husband, something I feel could be another story seed), and four very serious looking MiB-type servants/bodyguards/henchmen. Seriously, though, I can’t tell them apart—are these guys related or clones? ;-)
There is a lot in the collection (including a cryptid skull and an apparent Viking ship) but Dominque is most interested in something we’ve seen before: the head of the Lance of Fate, here officially named Gugnir. And wouldn’t you know it? That’s the one piece of the collection that’s not for sale. Of course, Dominique knew this and specifically timed her visit for sunset...

As Jade and Turquesa talk about how their reason for arriving in this specific place will soon be revealed (good, they’ve been briefed on how this works), Demona bursts through the stained-glass window (quite a loss that, especially with the lovely dragon imagery) with the spear in her hand! A wonderful two-page title spread! Obviously, Demona getting this thing spells bad luck for pretty much everyone...funny, then, that all this took place on the day *before* a Friday the 13th.

But we jump ahead to July 19, and to a different continent as we go to New York City and an anti-Gargoyle demonstration being led by John Castaway himself (standing on top of a police squad car, no less) just outside the Park Manor hotel. Naturally, even after the win (however bought) in court, the clan does not instantly have the entirety of public opinion on their side. This is something I’ve been wanting to see for a while, actually: Greg Weisman’s take on this sort of thing. We saw what “The Goliath Chronicles” did with this concept, but I wanted to see more of what Greg would do. I like that we don’t see any “suited-up” Quarrymen here, but we see Castaway as the leader of the mob still. This helps keep the physical threat of the Quarrymen confined to their appearances in uniform while highlighting their greater ideological threat to our heroes. Doubtless there are other Quarrymen than Castaway there, but I don’t think they are the only people making up that rather sizable crowd.
I feel sorry for the poor cop (most likely Morgan) trying to politely talk Castaway down off the squad car, though....

Of course, this isn’t just a random anti-gargoyle protest, but a demonstration against the event going on inside the Park Manor Hotel: The Gathering of the Gargoyles Guild. One of the better plot elements that TGC tried out was a pro-Gargoyle group, one to counteract the Quarrymen and show that not all humans would be against our heroes. I had some quibbles with the execution--wasn’t as fond of the name "People for Interspecies Tolerance" or “PIT crew,” felt they were a little broadly characterized, and (most frustrating of all) they were only in *one episode*--but the concept was right. So here we see a bit of Greg’s take on it, however it is mixed with a bit of a love letter to us fans. It’s no mistake that this is taking place on Saturday, July 19, 1997, as that was the first day (according to GargWiki) of the first ever Gathering of the Gargoyles! And just as one Mae Li was the one to put that all together, this event was spearheaded in the Gargoyles Universe by one Ruby-Mae Li (immortalized!). I do not mind this sort of nod to the fans, and in fact even love and appreciate it: it’s combining a need in the universe (a pro-gargoyle group) with an acknowledgement of the people who kept the show alive after its end. Also, I guess the group here is called the “Gargoyles Guild.” Well, I think it’s fun and gives an alliterative pair of initials (GG).
Ruby-Mae says that it was from watching Goliath’s trial on television that she started finding people on the internet that wanted to come together for the gargoyles, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some of the people who lived in Manhattan were already talking to each other about all the sightings and encounters, too.
This event does bear more of a resemblance to a fan convention right from the off, though, with folks in costume (hopefully the gargoyles view that as flattering) and speeches and signings in different rooms/halls. Heck, even the protesters outside accusing the attendees of godless demon-worship is accurate to some conventions these days (WonderCon this year didn’t have a huge crowd that I could see, just 4 or 5, but they were there...). It seems even Tobe Crest is getting some attention at this event (though we won’t see him in this issue). Goliath is still a little unsure of everything around this event, and I can only imagine what this must be like for him. He had some measure of acceptance from humans in the past, but this is the closest he’s probably come to being celebrated by them. He does agree with Ruby-Mae that this is a good move in bridging the gap between their species, though.

Off to the side watching stands Antoinette Dracon. And off even further to the side is Elisa Maza, semi-incognito with a black ballcap and sunglasses (but the exact same outfit as always!), who accosts Antoinette and wonders why Ms. Dracon is even here. Of course, this being the Park Manor hotel, the Dracons *live* here, but that does nothing to ease tensions between these two, nor does Antoinette’s attempt at a joke. We’ve never seen these two interact before, and we’ve mostly seen Antoinette interact with people she either has rank over (Pal Joey), family (the Dracons), people she needs something from (the Gargoyles) or someone she must defer to (Demona), so the somewhat adversarial relationship presented here is quite interesting. We’ll see where it goes, but this (along with Antoinette working with Demona) I feel puts paid to any thought I had of Antoinette being Elisa’s CI for what was going on with Dino.

Back at the castle, Lex is (finally) getting some more quality time with Alexander. And a baby, too! OK, that’s a bit needlessly mean to Gnash: yeah, he’s complaining the whole time about not getting to go to the Gathering of the Gargoyles...Guild, and conveniently forgetting that *only* Goliath went, but this is a kid whose entire life up to this point has been a time traveling adventure. I don’t know what’s the longest he’s been stuck in one place and time, but the current situation is a new one for him. He also seems to believe that his uncle Lex is in the same boat as he is, “just cuz we’re small the clan treats us like we belong in the Rookery” but I’m pretty sure he’s just projecting. Still, this scene leaves me wondering if this kid will wind up having an important part to play in this particular Quest.
Oh, and Owen’s also there, stone fist/forearm and all, looking on.

Speaking of the Rookery, though, Hudson pops down for a visit and gives the beasts a break from their guard duty. I love his crack about how they’re “making certain this egg nae rolls away on its own,” and his malapropism with “hold the fork.” Unlike his confusion at “hit the sack,” though, I can imagine someone telling him the correct phrase here and him going, “Oh, that makes *much* more sense.” But we then get a nice scene of him talking to Egwardo, and the hope that both this egg and Nashville have brought to the clan as a whole and him in particular. And Brooklyn and Katana, eavesdropping, share a happy look of their own. (I didn’t even notice one of Brooklyn’s horns was miscolored the first time...oh well, it’s not like that never happened in the series.)
A little digression on Hudson’s fate: I’m not going to borrow trouble on this. Whatever happens will happen. I will say that you can bring up the “two days to retirement” cliché but it’s getting to the point where subversions of that are pretty common, too. And even then, that’s not the vibe I got from this scene: this is checking in on where all the clan is at the start of this arc and for Hudson that is a moment of him really sitting down with the first egg in a Rookery since over 1000 years ago. Honestly, current canon-in-training indicates to me a violent death for Goliath, so I feel like it would make more sense for Hudson to have something different. I say let the “old soldier” get the end he probably never thought he would: go out peacefully as a proper “grandfather” in the clan. Still, like I said, I’m not going to borrow trouble on this. Okay, digression over.

Hudson also mentions Broadway and Angela’s commitment ceremony, and we cut to them making those plans. Specifically, the guest list: in addition to the entire Manhattan clan (as it currently is), Broadway immediately adds Matt (in the latest “Voices From the Eyrie” Greg Weisman mentioned he saw Broadway and Matt developing a close friendship over detective stories and the like, and it’s nice to see that get a chance to play out). Then, after some thought, he adds the Mazas...which ends up including the “entire Labyrinth clan” (funny how these guest lists can balloon, isn’t it big guy?). For her part, Angela would love it if her entire Avalon clan, including Katharine and Tom, could be there, which as Coldfire points out brings all kinds of logistical issues with it. But what’s really bothering Angela is Demona (and I love Broadway’s resigned “Here we go...”). Angela’s not demanding she be invited, just that she be told about the ceremony, and yeah, I kind of figured Angela would want that much at least. I don’t think this is naive yet (I’m reserving any judgement on that until I actually see Demona and Angela’s next interaction), just Angela not yet having written her mother off entirely. Angela’s basically a Disney princess, so hope springs eternal with her. I’m looking forward to seeing how this will play out. But oh, the dramatic irony as Angela wishes for a way to get word to Demona in front of Coldstone...

And we catch up to Demona now as she meets with Thailog (who has not come unprepared for violence). It’s nice to see Thailog take the stage again and to see these two interact after “The Reckoning.” Of course, with time and distance (and proper motivation) Demona can be quite civil. And she shows cunning as she plays to Thailog’s desires (controlling interest in Nightstone) and ego (with her “Could my little plans ever hope to derail yours?”), but I think Thailog is not completely unaware of this (there may be some hubris in his response to her of “No, they could not” but I think there’s also an honest determination there, too). And the fun discussion of Thailog’s “club” and Demona’s own awareness and relationship with them is a gem. And, of course, Demona’s great parting line when Thailog says getting what she wants may take some time: “I’m immortal. Take all the time you need.”

We return to Goliath finishing up his speech to the Gargoyles Guild. Some of the fan dialogue is pretty silly (“Empathy rocks!” and the running gag of the hug person), but I forgive it because I find it fun. Antoinette comments that the words of Goliath’s speech may have been “fairly standard stuff” but she apparently loves his voice. A sentiment Elisa unwittingly shares before catching herself and redirecting back to the words again. I don’t think Antoinette is fooled, but she has to be somewhere else right now, so she leaves and Elisa finally gets some time with Goliath.
(To be fair, I think there are a LOT of people who feel that way about Goliath's voice....)

Apparently, Elisa advised Goliath to speak to the crowd as if he was speaking only to her (I’m sure he had to go through his speech and remove certain comments about kissing and hair-stroking and other things). Elisa’s appearance hasn’t gone unnoticed as the folks around them comment on her being there (hey, I guess the hat and sunglasses actually worked for a bit!). But it seems Goliath has another visitor: Vinnie! He’s cleaned up a bit (some of that’s just the new art style I’m sure), but is still the same old schnook (dude, lead with the “saving life” thing instead of the “hit you with a pie” thing). At least this time Goliath learns his name. Vinnie’s not here completely for personal reasons, though, as his boss apparently sent him with a proposition for both Goliath and Elisa (oh, Taro, what do you have planned?). But all of that will have to wait because there is a would-be assassin in the crowd. Some redhead with a natty bowtie pulls out two high-tech handguns to attack...the attendees. This is something that I think can be missed: he’s not going after Goliath (not now anyway) but instead the “demon-worshippers.” Speaking of things easy to miss: on page 8, the top panel where Castaway is rabble rousing, there’s a guy in a suit with a bowtie standing just to the right of Castaway’s position (where the front of the car would be) with his hands out of sight apparently on his hips. Could this be the Bowtie Assailant? If so, then dang that’s a subtle early appearance.

Thankfully, Elisa is able to taze the guy--although we are apparently not allowed to see that directly, so we have to infer it from the appearance of the taser, Vinnie’s reaction, and the “AH-AH-AH...” word bubble--and Goliath is able to crush the guns before they can do any damage. Elisa places Bowtie under arrest, or *citizen’s* arrest, rather (old habits die hard, right down to carrying cuffs--kinky, detective!), and he feebly tries to justify himself by saying he wanted to “make an example” of the attendees “before the whole world follows their example.”
[ala the Toymaker from Doctor Who: “WELL, THAT’S ALL RIGHT THEN!”]
As for the attendees...there is a beat panel. Maybe it’s because of their brush with death, maybe it’s just them making sure this guy is no longer a threat, or maybe it’s because they saw Goliath with glowing eyes for the first time, but everyone has to stop for a moment. And then “everybody claps.” It’s a nice moment, and Goliath is certainly happy about it (great contrast to Bowtie's expression in the final panel). Some more silly, fun fan banter with a “huzzah” and one more call for hugs.
[“Who keeps saying that?”]

But we now cut to our villainous villains in parallel panels as Thailog’s crew at Nightstone (including Shari and Brentwood) make plans to acquire the Hand of Valmont (canon at last!) and Demona’s group (including Antoinette and Coldstone) focus on acquiring all three new Keys to Power. The parallel panels is something I’ve always enjoyed and these do a good job of concisely showing where our bad guys are now and what they’re gearing up to do. Of course, this means including Coldstone among the villains, but that’s where his loyalties seem to lie for this story, no matter how much he might try to justify it, and he confirms he is keeping the rest of the clan in the dark. I’ve no doubt he will be in for a very rude awakening later.

However, we don’t close out the issue there. Instead, we catch up with the two beasts on their constitutional among the city’s rooftops. How they got down there from the Eyrie, I don’t know (hopefully they didn’t just take a flying leap), but they’re there now. Bronx smells something, though, and lets out a howl. A howl that is heard by the two gargoyles we opened this issue with. Jade and Turquesa have arrived in Manhattan, and Jade recognizes Bronx's howl! I love how Turquesa’s line at the beginning mentioned “one step closer in our quest to return home” and Jade’s line at the end mentions “one step closer in our quest.” I’m wondering if this slight difference in dialogue indicates they’ve put the “return home” on hold for the moment due to something else.

Overall, loving this issue and looking forward to the remaining four. And I mean I want to read them all now!

The new artist, Pasquale Qualano, turns in some great work here. The lighting and dynamic angles are all quite good. There *are* some aspects of the style that strike me as odd:
*The chins on Goliath, Thailog, and Jade seem a bit larger than normal, and in the case of Goliath and Thailog there sometimes seems to be more upper lip in between nose and mouth. This doesn’t happen all the time, though (Thailog at the top of page 15 looks pretty darn perfect).
*Sometimes when characters or objects are in the foreground (like Coldfire in panel 1 on page 13 or Demona in panel 2 on page 14) they have a sort of dot overlay/outline of some kind, maybe to indicate shadow(?) and almost look like they’re cut-outs to me.
*Maybe it’s the angle, but on page 18 Goliath looks positively HUGE compared to Ruby-Mae.
Still, these are mostly minor things and the good is in far more abundance. I particularly like Demona’s escape from the mansion in the beginning, Hudson with Egwardo, and the two panels of Demona’s eyes versus Thailog’s eyes on page 16. [/SPOILER]


I am so here for this.


PREVIEW FOR ISSUE 2> No spoilers here, just saying that I'm surprised this came out so early. It's also not the first five pages, apparently, unless I'm missing something. This feels a bit like the "Next time on "Gargoyles" previews that the "Awakening" 5-parter had. Of course, this just makes the wait that much harder!

Later!
****Blaise makes the remnants of the window vanish with a wave of his hand and shuffles his way out of the Room.****
Blaise
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."--The Doctor
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 12:46:49 am EDT from 45.48.54.221

First!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 22, 2024 12:07:41 am EDT from 73.98.83.249