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matt writes...
i have a couple comments on "Her Brother's Keeper" which i just watched...
first of all, i love the trio in the helicopter scene, one of the most fun moments in the series!
my real comment/question is about Hyena in this episode. why are she and Jackal suddenly outlaws, hunting a creature that doesn't legally exist is one thing, but all of a sudden they're stealing (or attempting to steal) the "most valuable stone on Earth", whats that about? oh, it was orders from Fox? i see, didn't Hyena just say, "I don't take orders, brother, not even from you!" then she dutifully follows Fox's orders several times in the episode. i don't get it... these two, particulary Hyena really confuse me and seem to be acting out of character at this point. later on, they escape from prison and so they're already outlaws, so why not rob a bank, but here they are good citizens, even popular citizens, why mess that up on Fox's orders, are they that loyal to her?
Greg responds...
They were never good citizens. They were mercenaries hired to portray heroes on tv.
None of what they did, including following orders when it suited their proclivities, seems out of character to me.
matt writes...
i was really surprised how easily Hyena forgives Jackal, i mean he is always calling her sick for falling in lust with Coyote, then in "Grief" Jackal destroys Coyote and makes Hyena a baby, but by "The Green" Hyena happily makes jokes with her brother. it just didn't seem right and it didn't seem like it fit in with the theme of consequences in "Gargoyles"... your thoughts...
Greg responds...
Hyena's a freak. Coyote can always be rebuilt. And Jackal and Hyena have always both counted on and sniped at each other.
Shavri writes...
Sorry for double posting, I just thought of another question. Is one of the reasons why Xanatos was always picking on Goliath is that it gave him a sense of power? You know, as kind of an ego-booster? Is it that the same reason Wolf was always trying to fight Goliath(besides his hatred of him)?
Greg responds...
It's in there. But it's also not that simple.
Anonymous writes...
What body parts did Jackal and Hyena sacriface for the upgrade?
Greg responds...
Arms and legs mostly. Body mass.
Vashkoda writes...
1a) Which race and civilization (or "clan" if they were gargoyles) created the Cauldron of Life? b) Which was the Cauldron made of--mortal, fairy, or some other magic? c) If it was made of mortal magic, did the mortal energies have any adverse effect on Puck when he dipped in his hand (other than the petrification itself), or was he spared any possible additonal effect because he was in mortal form as Owen?
2a) When the Cauldron's iron was reforged into the Coyote robot, was its ability to turn objects to stone lost? b) Did the Cauldron have any magical abilities other than petrification? c) Did the magic in the Cauldron's iron really make it more effective at capturing the Coyote fae, or would regular iron have been just as effective? If the Cauldron was made with mortal magic, did these mortal energies play a part in its effectiveness as a prison for fey?
3) What did Xanatos do with the magical iron after that Coyote robot was disabled?
Greg responds...
1a. That's a story in its own right.
1b. Mortal, largely.
1c. No adverse effects on Puck.
2a. Not necessarily.
2b. Not necessarily.
2c. Didn't hurt.
3. Wouldn't you like to know?
matt writes...
i know Xanatos used the Cauldron of Life in Coyote's reconstruction cuz it was iron and would hold Coyote the Trickster, but couldn't he have used any old iron to do this? some may say that Xanatos used the Cauldron so as not to be wasteful, but i think he really was wasting the Cauldron on something that any iron would do. so why did he use the cauldron?
Greg responds...
He wasn't taking any chances, I guess. He wanted his robot to not merely be iron, but to be magically powerful.
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
About Angela: Right after the World Tour, what are her opinions about...
1-Macbeth?
2-Fox?
3-Dingo?
Thanks.
Greg responds...
1. He seems all right.
2. She doesn't seem to trustworthy. But at least she's not trying to kill me.
3. He seems all right.
matt writes...
am i correct in these assumptions of what beasts DNA was used to mutate the following characters:
Wolf - wolf
Talon - panther, bat, e. eel
Claw - tiger, bat, e. eel
Fang - couger?, bat, e.eel
Maggie the Cat - lion, bat, e. eel
Greg responds...
Yeah, that sounds right. Cougar or Mountain Lion for Fang.
(The Guppi) writes...
Were Fox, Dingo, Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf using their 'stage' names prior to the Pack's formation?
Greg responds...
Fox, maybe. The rest, no.
(The Guppi) writes...
Are the former members of the Pack (excluding Fox) wanted criminals? Why haven't they been caught yet?
Greg responds...
Dingo and Jackal are both wanted in the U.S. But they're out of the country and hard to catch.
Hyena's in prison.
Wolf, I'm not sure about.
Coyote doesn't officially exist.
(The Guppi) writes...
1) What happened to PM Studios after the arrests?
2) Did the model who was taken hostage by Fox press charges or file suit?
3) How did the PR staff deal with the fallout?
4) What was the public's reaction? The parental backlash against the media's portrayal of violence &c can't have been very pleasant for TV execs.
5) Do the fuzz or Feds know about XE's connections with PMS?
Greg responds...
1. Nothing.
2. Yes. The former.
3. Miserably.
4. The Pack was immediately cancelled.
5. Potentially, but no one knows that X was behind the Pack's crimes.
(The Guppi) writes...
[1] About how long did THE PACK air, and how large a portion of the market did it capture? Was it syndicated or affiliated or a network? And was it at the height of its popularity as of _The Thrill of the Hunt_?
[2] What was THE PACK's usual show format? The impression I got from _TTotH_ would lead me to place it in the 'mindless fighting' category. (Not that that's always a bad thing. THE A-TEAM always held a great deal of fascination for me when I was a kid, and enough people see something in POWER RANGERS [wince] and the WWF to have propelled them to the top of the ratings charts. ...The fighting in GARGOYLES is naturally quite cerebral.)
[3] What sort of commercial tie-ins do you think THE PACK might have had? Would its merchandise have rocketed in value after its stars got the boot?
[4] Lastly, was Pack Media Studios in charge of any other series or franchises?
Greg responds...
1. I don't have all that info handy here at my Disney office. But it was syndicated. And it was at the height of popularity when Fox and Wolf were arrested.
2. It was more mindless. They were the good guys. Always getting lured into traps by evil ninjas. Fighting their way out.
3. They had tons of merchandising. I think initially all that stuff would have tanked in value. By now they might be collectors items.
4. They had a lot in development.
Basilisk writes...
We know Fox's real name is Janine Renard and Dingo's is Harry Monmouth, but what about Wolf, Jackal, and Hyena? What are their real names?
Greg responds...
Don't know yet.
Yttrium writes...
Did you always plan for Fox to be the leader of the Pack? I don't know why, but from the Pitches I got the impression that you were originally leaning toward CY.O.T.I or Wolf.
---Ytt
Greg responds...
Not Coyote. Fox or Wolf.
Sapphire writes...
Will there be any more mutates in the future besides the 4 already present?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Don't forget Wolf, for starters.
LSZ writes...
Quote: The Coyote Robot, no matter how smart it gets, will always have a bit of Wile E. Coyote in its makeup
Does this apply to Coyote X?
Greg responds...
Sure. DEEP, DEEP DOWN. :)
Ashe writes...
Hello Greg..I was wondering do you know what does the ultra pack look like in the future tense? I mean are they upgraded again? Also .. about the Coyote.. I heard Coyote 5.0 was made in future tense..care to explain how and why?
Greg responds...
You heard wrong, if by "future tense" you mean Gargoyles 2198.
And yes, I do have something in mind.
Kayless writes...
1. The first Pack episode 'Thrill of the Hunt' featured Wolf as brutal, yet crafty fighter (by covering for the Pack when that family spots them pummeling Goliath and Lex). However, later episodes depict him as being somewhat mentally deficient. So what happened to him? Was he brain damaged in the fight with Goliath?
(Gargoyles isn't the only show to feature this mysterious progressive intellect loss ailment. Many a villain has been quite formidable in their first few appearances only to degrade into a simpleton several years into the show's running)
2. What could you possibly name a new member of the Pack? I can't think of anymore wild dog names. (But I assume you have)
Greg responds...
1. As I noted here in Ask Greg, I was surprised in reviewing THRILL to see how relatively smart Wolf was and how relatively dumb Fox was in their first appearance. Perhaps Wolf's upgrade had a negative effect on his intelligence. But I hope he's the only villain who qualifies under PILA. I like to think most of our villains got better with age.
2. I could, of course. Won't. But could.
Demona Taina writes...
Hello, Greg! Just a quickie.
I was watching the episode "Grief" this morning, and I couldn't help but wonder if Jackal pushed the Emir away because he was trying to protect the world from the Avatar OR because he wanted to be the Avatar to control life and death himself?
Thank you for your time. :)
Greg responds...
He wanted it. He felt like Anubis, being a jackal-headed god, was connected to him.
Thanks for asking a question.
Todd Jensen writes...
I recently realized that there is a certain similarity between the Sidero/Xavier team-up in the original comedy version of "Gargoyles" and the Hakon/Wolf team-up in "Vendettas". In both cases, a couple of villains team up against the gargoyles, one an original enemy of theirs from the Middle Ages, surviving on only as a ghost, the other a modern-day descendant of that medieval enemy who is scorned by his medieval ancestor for being too "poor-quality". Was the Sidero/Xavier team-up the distant inspiration for the Hakon/Wolf team-up?
Greg responds...
Likely it very much was. Of course, the main motivator was the very talented Clancy Brown. But nothing gets wasted, consciously or otherwise.
Matthew Smith writes...
Is it more than a coincidence that Hakon and his descendant Wolf both just happen to be enemies of Goliath? i mean it is a pretty big coincidence isn't it?
Greg responds...
Not in my universe, pal.
(More like destiny.)
Jackal's Love writes...
G'day Greg
Would any of the spinoffs featured the Pack (or at least members of the Pack) as villains?
Thank you for your time.
Greg responds...
Sure. Most. Let's see...
Gargoyles
Bad Guys
Gargoyles 2158 (revised)
for sure...
And I wouldn't be surprised if we also saw them in
Pendragon
New Olympians
TimeDancer
But I would be surprised if they showed up in
Dark Ages
Ithica writes...
Apparently, correct me if I'm wrong, Hakon and Wolf are voiced by the same guy. Hakon was the earlier character. Was the same actor chosen for Wolf with the knowledge that they were distantly related, or did that idea come later? As in the time of 'Vendettas'?
Greg responds...
The idea came long before Vendettas. But definitely was inspired by the fact that Clancy played both parts. I think it came shortly after "Leader of the Pack" was voice recorded.
LSZ writes...
1) In response to the 'which Coyote' thing in being compared to intelligence with Talos, I mean Coyote 6.0 and 7.0
2) What is it that makes Talos so smart? Extremely advanced AI? Remaining sorcery from Daidolos/a Cyclops' manufacture? All or none of the above?
Greg responds...
1. I don't know. I think probably Talos. The Coyote Robot, no matter how smart it gets, will always have a bit of Wile E. Coyote in its make-up.
2. Advanced A.I. mostly. (Keep in mind he's been rebuilt and upgraded many times. Both in hardware and software. Only his basic design style and memory files have remained consistent.)
Jackal's Love writes...
G'day Greg!
A while back, in your 'Leader of the Pack' ramble, you mentioned that Wolf would be the one to challenge Coyote for leadership (and be subsequently beaten up) so that Hyena wouldn't have the chance to step aside. Why wouldn't Dingo or Jackal try to gain leadership? And, if somehow it came down to Wolf, Hyena, Dingo, and Jackal as the only members of the Pack, who would Dingo and Jackal support, respectively, since apparently it would be Wolf and Hyena vying for power.
Thank you for your time (and apologies for the run-on sentences).
Greg responds...
I don't think either Jackal or Dingo (or truly Hyena) had any real ambition to lead.
But I can't answer your last hypothetical, because it bears no fruit.
Dracolich5 writes...
Here again with a pretty specific question. Ok, we know that there was going to be an Ultra-Pack, and that this Pack would have one new member. I, having an interest in recognizing animals, have tried to narrow down the options as to the Pack name for this new member. Now, I am trying not to single out a name, since that would be a story idea, so I'll see if this goes through:
Well, pretty much all standard wild Canids and one related type have been used; Wolf, Fox, Jackal, Hyena(which is actually more closely related to cats!), Dingo, and Coyote. So, what do we have left? A petty easy one is Wild Dog (shortening from African Wild Dog.) This name seems to fit and is simple enough not to confuse the general public. Considering this series is designed for a general audience, I don't think anyone would know what a Dhole is. Most other uniquely named canids are foxes, and the Culpeo is more closely related to Domestic Dogs (I think.) Thus, although I would like to see Dhole (although viewers might mistake that name for Dingo), and if it is not a Wild Dog, the only other choice I see is in non-canids. In otherwords, the Thylacine (Tasmanian Wolf.) I honestly can't see any other addition, unless you consider that the Maned Wolf is not a true wolf. So, have I narrowed it down? Are any of the names I've listed the name? Do you wish to keep a secret? Am I missing any? Am I just being a pain?
Greg responds...
You're half right.
LSZ writes...
How did Hakon get out of the cave after Shadows of the Past?
Greg responds...
He inhabited the axe. Wolf took up the axe and carried it off. (But I do wish I had made it a mace.)
LSZ writes...
Which is more intelligent, roughly: Talos, Coyote or the Golem?
Greg responds...
Talos.
Wait, which Coyote?
Abigail Thorne writes...
In "The Thrill of the Hunt," Fox and Wolf were arrested when the photographer took pictures of them holding a women hostage. Don't you think that, while he was busy getting pictures, he would have taken the time to photograph Goliath too? I mean, that would seem a bit more noteworthy to me than two TV stars turning bad. Why didn't he?
Greg responds...
I don't think he intended to photograph Fox and Wolf either. He was stunned, paralized. But his camera had an auto-shutter and he was pressing down on the button. Fox and Wolf were standing right where his models had been. So he got them on film. Goliath was out of view. The photographer didn't have the presence of mind to do anything but stand there. Rewatch the episode. I'm not making this up. That's what happened.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
Out of curiosity, which Coyote robot is your favorite?
Greg responds...
They're all like children to me.
Abigail Thorne writes...
There's something I've always wondered about the Pack: how exactly were they imprisoned once they were upgraded? Wolf, Jackal, and Hyena all had enhanced strength, and the latter two were equipted with all sorts of mechanical gismos and morphng technology. When Hyena was unconcious on the steps in "The Green," Officer Morgan wasn't in too big a hurry to get her into a secure place--once she came to, she could have easily beaten he crap out of him and his partner and escaped. Did the authorities have to build special facilities for holding the Upgraded Pack?
Greg responds...
Probably, but you'll notice that jails didn't hold the Pack too well after their upgrades. So success was limited.
Blaise (repost by Aris) writes...
RE: Thrill of the Hunt
When I first saw this I was still getting used to the characters myself, so most of the impact this ep had on me came in later viewings.
What I did like in my first viewing was the Pack itself. They were very interesting antagonists to me for some reason. Possibly it was because they were human and managed to give the gargoyles a hard time there for a while. Also, the Xanatos Tag. I almost missed that the first time I watched the show. I thought it was over when the gargoyles went to sleep, so I went to get a drink or snack or something. Then I came back and there's Xanatos talking about how "the test was most...informative [smirk]". I was completely blown away by this (and gained even more respect for how dangerous Xanatos could be). I also remember liking the fact that Xanatos's ownership of the castle was addressed and not swept under the rug. It was refreashing to have previous events being referred to and having an effect on the present.
In later viewings, I found even more things to like. My favorite part in the whole episode is when Goliath and Lex have the advantage. After seeing the Pack mercilessly come after them, I got kind of a vindictive pleasure in having the gargoyles now acting as the silent stalkers. It's kind of like a horror movie almost--only this time you want the "monsters" to win. Come to think of it, I've always gotten a big kick whenever any of the gargoyles were scaring/beating the living tar out of their opponents. I never really thought about how they became "borderline cuddly" as the series progressed. Maybe we all just got familiar with them. But I always liked seeing them cut loose when they did.
As for the whole stunt show--so insanely corny I almost couldn't watch. Great send-up of the P--uh, you-know-whats.
I hadn't given much thought to Wolf's display of brain's or Fox's lapse in judgement until you mentioned them. Fox's is easy to forgive (for reasons you have already stated). Wolf--wow, it surprises me I never noticed it before.
Pointless note: I didn't expect the Pack to appear again after this. I didn't know there were any ideas to bring them back in at any later point, so when Jackal and Hyena showed up about 6 eps later I was surprised (and a bit delighted).
As for the animation, I never saw what the problem with it was. Even after the multiparter, I thought the animation here was still good (at least above the level of quality reached by your average animated show).
Oh, and I agree with you wholeheartedly about television.;-)
Greg responds...
I was concerned that the Pack might seem too generic as super-villains, but I think we managed to make them come alive as interesting characters. New stories just kept suggesting themselves, so the Pack keeps coming back.
THE HYENA CONTEST RESULTS
We have a winner:
Adam writes...
THE HYENA CONTEST
Hyena smiles because she's amused by Elisa's values. Elisa is clearly playing by the "good guy" rules, which
say that you don't shoot someone when you could arrest them, you don't drop Xanatos off the building, etc.
Hyena believes that when it's in your best interests for someone to be dead, you kill them. It's funny to
Hyena that Elisa could be so deluded by ideas of "right" and "wrong" that she would let someone as
dangerous as Hyena live to fight another day when it would be so easy just to kill her and solve the problem
permanently.
Adam's entry came in first. And I kept waiting for someone to top it, but it never happened. Good work.
I'd like to thank Aaron, Jackal's Love, The Christine Morgan, Derek!, E.J. Kalafarski and Duncan Devlin for entering.
Adam, contact either Gore or Todd Jensen with your e-mail address so that we can arrange to give you your prize. Congratulations.
Duncan Devlin writes...
"THE HYENA CONTEST"
Hyena realizes she will be able to get her revenge upon the person who truly put her in such a compromising position: Fox. Notice that Hyena closes her eyes in addition to smiling. In her mind, Hyena is playing a game of 'it's not my fault' with the intention of making Fox painfully find out it was her fault. She closes her eyes and envisions punishing, then smiles at her little fantasy. Hyena is a sadistic little bitch, as can be seen in the twinges of her smile.
Greg responds...
Thanks for entering. You entered twenty minutes under the wire. So we shouldn't have too many more entries left. Results soon.
E.J. Kalafarski writes...
"THE HYENA CONTEST"
Elisa has her gun trained on Hyena. Hyena's beaten. But she smiles. Because, in her mind, Hyena truly believes that she cannot be beaten. She believes that she is infinitely superior to Elisa Maza, or the gargoyles, or anyone, for that matter. This superiority complex is later manifested when she and Jackal enhance themselves with cybernetic technology. They feel this unconscious need to prove that they are better than anyone else, that they are above society, and that they have no equals. This is why Hyena smiles. Because, someday, the world will know that she can never be beaten.
Greg responds...
Thanks for entering.
The contest is almost over. Results soon.
LSZ writes...
Wealth:
1) Who has more money, Macbeth or Xanatos?
2) How much money do the Canmores have?
3) Just how much did the Pack profit financially from their tv show?
Greg responds...
1. From a liquid standpoint, Xanatos. Macbeth may have some extremely valuable items, that would be worth a fortune if he was willing to part with them, but he's largely not...
2. An extremely large trust.
3. Quite a bit. But not as much as Xanatos did.
Christine (who doesn't scare you) writes...
THE HYENA CONTEST
Hyena is smiling because she's eager to get back to women's prison and hopes her next cellmate will be more 'accomodating' than Fox ; )
Greg responds...
Except this episode takes place before Hyena went to prison and "roomed" with Fox. Who may or may not have been accomodating.
Now who scares who?
Derek! writes...
THE HYENA CONTEST
From the beginning of the episode, we see that Hyena is not content with living a "normal life". She wants to be, if you'll excuse the teenage phrase, hardcore. Wolf and Fox had already proven they were tough by getting thrown into prison for taking a woman hostage. Perhaps in her somewhat warped view of things, she was proving she was as good, if not better than they were. They were arrested for taking a model hostage; she, however tried to assassinate one of the richest men on earth. Who do you think would be considered more dangerous?
Greg responds...
Thanks for participating. Results some day.
Jackal's Love writes...
Hyena Contest:
Hyena says "I'm not beaten yet", and Elisa responds by shouting "Oh, yes you are!". Hyena looks angry for a second, then smiles. I think she does this because she's thinking "Oh, no I'm not." She realizes that she's down but not out, and that although she may have to bide her time, she'll get out, and in the meantime she's going to go to prison with her brother to plan what happens next. So Hyena's smile her way of laughing at Elisa, who has no idea just how wrong she is.
Greg responds...
Thank you for entering. Results when all the entries are in.
Aaron writes...
Well, I guess I'll take a shot at this, before more eloquent guys like Aris and Airwalker take it.
The Hyena Contest.
I think the twins had a very... strange childhood, which didn't impress them with the fundamental goodness of humanity. At the end of the day, each is probably the only one that the other even partially trusts.
They're both terrified of being alone, which is why a psychopath and a sociopath stay together. Hyena is smiling because she knows, subconsciously, that getting captured is the only way to stay with her brother.
(Or maybe Hyena was so glad not to be blind after seeing a million candle-power searchlight through her NVGs, she was happy to see anything, even a cop)
Greg responds...
Thanks. Contests results to follow... someday....
Adam writes...
THE HYENA CONTEST
Hyena smiles because she's amused by Elisa's values. Elisa is clearly playing by the "good guy" rules, which say that you don't shoot someone when you could arrest them, you don't drop Xanatos off the building, etc. Hyena believes that when it's in your best interests for someone to be dead, you kill them. It's funny to Hyena that Elisa could be so deluded by ideas of "right" and "wrong" that she would let someone as dangerous as Hyena live to fight another day when it would be so easy just to kill her and solve the problem permanently.
Greg responds...
Thanks Adam, good answer. I know you posted it in March. It's almost July, and you're the first entry to the contest I've seen. I had to go back and look up the rules, it's been so long. Anyway, when I finally get through all the April posts, I'll announce a winner.
Tas Vince Burrfoot writes...
Dear Greg,
About your Ultra-Pack.
The Pack showed signs of dissention in "The Thrill of the Hunt" all the way through "Grief" where it looked like they could barely stomach each other. What makes them stay together when the Ultra-Pack is formed? I don't suppose even their own greed and lust for violence could keep them together at this point.
Thanks,
TVB
Greg responds...
Coyote finds a way. Carrot and stick, so to speak.
Chapter XIV: "Leader of the Pack"
I've already dealt with the changes between the first and second seasons of GARGOYLES. (See a previous ramble on that subject.) And hopefully you've all read the serialized postings of the memo I wrote to Michael Reaves in July of 94. Note the date. I was writing that memo to Michael a good three months before the first season of the series would actually premiere. Meaning, Michael, myself, all of us, were just guessing.
Now, finally, I have the time to sit down and ramble about my recent re-viewing of "Leader"...
STORY EDITOR: Michael Reaves.
WRITER: Steven Perry.
Some things were coming to fruition in this episode. A CY.O.T.I. robot had been part of the original development of the show and the Pack. Six characters seemed like a bit much, but the main reason we left CY.O.T.I. out of "Thrill of the Hunt" was because of the way we wound up intro-ing the Pack, that is as a group of T.V. super-heroes. Giving them a realistic robot in that context didn't seem to fit. By the time we got around to introducing the show's version of the Coyote robot (note the NORMAL spelling) much had changed in how we conceived the thing. And yet many of the original elements were still present, if altered. The orignal CY.O.T.I. (CYber-Operational Technical Individual -- or something like that) was a hovering robotic head. But not a Xanatos head. It was a dog-faced head. The head could attach to multiple different robotic bodies, as well as lock into various vehicles as a kind-of autoMATED pilot. One of the robotic bodies was four-legged, dog-shaped. Another was bipedal. But in either case there was never any question that the robot was a robot.
But by the time, we got to "Leader" we had learned so much more about our characters, that our whole conception of CY.O.T.I. changed into the Coyote you know. Part of the change came right out of how sophisticated Xanatos himself was. David constantly made Michael and I jump through hoops to come up with trickier and trickier plots. Plots that would allow the Gargoyles to generally triumph, and yet allow Xanatos to snatch some real victory out of seeming total defeat in what had become our trademark Xanatos Tag sequences. The one in "Leader" is one of the best, which brings up another thing that came to fruition in this episode. When we first created the Pack, I had NO IDEA that Fox and Xanatos were an item. That was a complete discovery, a revelation that came to us during the making of "Her Brother's Keeper": akin to, "Ohmigod, Fox is in love with David!!!" I don't know if it shocked you guys, but it sure came as a surprise to me, their so-called creator. Another instance when I think of myself less as a writer, and more as simply the guy who was tapping into what was really going on in the GARGOYLES UNIVERSE. When did you guys figure it out? During "Brother's Keeper"? During "Leader"? Or not until the end of "Leader" when it was objectively revealed? (Obviously, any of you who saw later episodes first are disqualified from voting on this one.)
Anyway, since we knew they were destined for each other, and we had this semi-top secret plan for them to marry and extremely top-secret plan for them to procreate, we knew we had to get Fox out of jail. And not break her out. But have her out more-or-less scott free. So that would be Xanatos' plan. All the subterfuge would lead to that. Having the robot pose as Xanatos in armor, allowed us for the kind of multiple surprise onion-peeling kind of story that I just live for. Plus it would leave us with a more wieldy five-man Pack again. Fox would graduate. Coyote would take her place.
One tricky thing was electronically futzing Jonathan Frakes' voice when Coyote was wearing his helmet. We wanted to alter it enough so that no one would know it was "Xanatos" until after he took off the helmet. But we didn't want to alter it SO much that you couldn't register Jonathan's standardly and casually wonderful acting AS Xanatos inside the armor. I think we succeeded. (Credit for that goes to the guys at Advantage Audio, who mixed the show. Real unsung heroes.)
We also gave Jamie Thomason, our voice director, and Jonathan the key note that would differentiate the true Xanatos from Coyote. And that was Coyote's fairly primitive desire for vengeance. If I do say so myself, I thought this was a terrific clue, a great moment of fair play, planted in the story. I wanted people to be a little surprised that Xanatos would care about vengeance. But I also figured most would buy into it, because we're all so trained to think of villains in a certain way. But then when Xanatos calls revenge a "sucker's game" at the end, the audience would feel "Oh, of course. That's OUR Xanatos. The other guy was just a cheap imitation." Who was fooled? Who wasn't? I'm curious to know.
When Coyote first took off his helmet at the end of Act One, my three year old son Ben yelled out "Xanatos!" He was truly and wonderfully surprised at that moment. It was fun.
Random observation: Wolf's not doing real push-ups. Not fully extending, either up or down.
Another thing we did do for the NEW SEASON start up was feature the gargs EXPLODING out of stone. Another of our series' trademarks that we wanted to be sure to get into the first episode of the new season.
Coyote clearly has a "quip chip" installed. He's got some great very Xanatosian lines. "Exact change". "Wanna see what I can do with both hands." Etc.
In fact lots of characters have great cutting lines in this one. Owen is wonderfully officious, even a tad smarmy in this one. You can almost see Puck smiling through, and this is before I knew Owen was Puck. But his, "Shouldn't you... be there." is just great.
Or Brooklyn's line: "Yeah, why should we stay up here... where it's safe." Great.
And Hyena: "I love a man who brings me weapons..." and "A robot?! Even better." Classic. And that was another discovery. Hyena would have the hots for Coyote. It wouldn't necessarily be reciprocated, but the mere fact that he was a robot wouldn't bug her. (I'm guessing she's used to using technology to satisfy her desires.) On some level, I think this was us (and Hyena) just being perverse for the sake of perverseness. But I also think it created an interesting parallel to Goliath and Elisa's relationship, if that doesn't sound to preposterous.
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Another random observation: Hyena mentions Santa Claus. :) Ho ho ho.
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CHARACTER CONTINUITY:
I think there was a semi-conscious desire to give every character something that new and returning viewers could use to hang their hats on, so-to-speak.
Lex is still so angry at the Pack for events in "Thrill of the Hunt" that he's literally HOPPING mad. Actually, that bit of hopping bugged me. Made Lex look silly and young at a point when I was hoping to present him as truly dangerous. Oh, well...
Brooklyn still feels the same way about Demona. And he's self-aware enough to know it. Though not mature enough to get passed it. (That'll come -- sometime in 2158.)
Broadway still hates guns and smashes them at every opportunity. (Lex obviously doesn't share his rookery-brother's opinion. Lex looks real tough holding that launcher. And I think it's a fairly shocking moment when that hole gets blown in Coyote's torso, and Lex is revealed -- through the hole, no less -- as the shooter. Even though we know by this time that Coyote is a robot, I still think it's one of the most violent images that ever appeared in our show. And it's all about context and attitude. You get the sense that Lex might just do the exact same thing to any of the human members of the Pack too.)
Hudson is still the observant guy who deduces events from what remains behind. "There's been a struggle here..." is right in keeping with his tracking skills and the way he examined that tampered-with bow back in "Awakening, Part Two".
Bronx is still a good judge of character. And he hates robots with fearful abandon. We decided he could literally smell when something isn't human. If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, we naturally assume that it's a duck. But for Bronx it better smell like a duck or he's going to rip its face off, eh? That was another great shocking moment, I think. There's a little bit of WESTWORLD homage going on. Or FEMBOT homage, depending on how old you are. (I'm old enough to remember both.) It's pretty cool. And I love Coyote's head rocketing off at the end. It's so cool and sick. I fell in love with that head, and decided to use it in all future Coyote's -- one way or another.
Nietzche, Sartre, Kafka. That exchange was pure Perry-Reaves. And people tell me _I_ write to old for the demographic. Geez.
I love that moment when the phone rings at PackMedia Studios. (Also have I mentioned I love the name PackMedia. It's so perfect.) Anyway, Broadway's tentative response, before picking it up. And Owen knowing someone WOULD just pick up. It kills me.
As most of you know I favor one word titles. But "Leader of the Pack" WAS in fact one of mine. It was just irresistible.
The fight between the Gargs and the Pack aboard the oil tanker was very well-choreographed in script. But this was an instance where, in my opinion, our board artists lost the forest for the trees. The fight in storyboard went off on some wonderful tangents -- that wound up creating problems for those interested in keeping track of our combatants. Who was where and when just became a mess. We basically were able to fix those problems in film editing. But that's accomplished by keeping the fight well-paced. In the script, I actually think it's well-choreographed. In particular, Broadway freeing Lex, Brook and Bronx made a bit more sense in the script.
Coyote's perception-warping weapon is very cool. We probably didn't use it enough. Mainly because it was too effective. Too hard to stop.
I wanted the gargs to have to swim back to shore from the sinking tanker. But no one else agreed with me.
The head of Fox's parole board is voiced by Jim Cummings (aka Dingo, Darkwing Duck, Bonkers, etc.), doing his best Orson Wells imitation. Which is damned good by the way. Jim Cummings and Jeff Bennett in the same show. Man, were we blessed or what?
And coming full circle, we have our great Xanatos Tag. The villains kiss passionately. You don't see that too often in cartoons, I think. I love Xanatos' great line "That was merely the icing, you're the cake." And also his "true love is so much harder to come by." But here's my question for you guys. At the time, did you really think Xanatos was truly in love with Fox, or did you think he was merely being glib? I knew by that time, but even David didn't. Wasn't until "Eye of the Beholder" that HE realized how deep his feelings were for Fox.
So, comments?
Bengali writes...
1.When Coyote 3.0 said "I was programmed for vengeance!" did he mean it literally or did he just think it was the right thing to say at the time?
Greg responds...
Both. I talked about his Quip Chip in my last ramble. But I think Xanatos wanted to make sure the robot stayed focused.
Jackal's Love writes...
You mentioned some time earlier that there were two canid names left for the fifth member of the Ultra-Pack. What are they? And which would be given to the new guy?
Greg responds...
Must I chose?
"Leader" memo concluded...
Finally, the last section of the 7/94 "Leader of the Pack" memo. Act Three of the Beat Sheet. I'll try to type up my new ramble on the episode soon...
ACT THREE
8. Goliath, Hudson and Broadway arrive at the Packmedia Studio. It's quiet. Inside, they see the damage. But no sign of the missing gargoyles. The phone rings. Broadway answers it tentatively. It's Owen. He was wondering if he could schedule an appointment for the Gargoyles to have a big fight with the Pack at the Oil Tanker Whatever-Maru in the harbor. Is Midnight convenient?
9. On the Tanker. In a carvernous empty oil tank, Lex, Brook and Bronx sit inside, effectively imprisoned. Lex swears even more vengence [sic]. Brooklyn can't get through to him. (Maybe Brook makes some sarcastic reference to the three of them always getting captured. First Macbeth nets them, now the Pack.) [Note: This story just structured out that way. So this tidbit was me acknowledging the coincidence, so that the viewer wouldn't think we -- the writers -- were oblivious to it. Greg 2000] Eventually, the other three gargoyles show up for the fight. Broadway is sent to find the others while Goliath and Hudson run interference. At one point, Goliath digs his claws into Coyote's helmet and rips it off, revealing "Xanatos". Goliath isn't too surprised. But eventually after the others are freed, he is surprised. Bronx again beelines for "Xanatos"/Coyote. He smells robot and claws off half of the rubber Xanatos mask to reveal the Coyote robot beneath. [Do you know, I was half afraid that some people would take this to mean that Xanatos had been a robot all along. Greg 2000] Even the Pack is shocked and the tide of battle begins to turn for good, especially after Lex picks up one of Dingo's fallen weapons and blows a hole in Coyote's chest. The robot really malfunctions now. The head "evacuates" and rockets into the sky to escape. The Pack decides to retreat in their Attack Vehicle, but opt to blow up the tanker to cover their escape. Lex in the end has to choose between saving Brooklyn and preventing the Pack's escape. Obviously, he saves Brooklyn and the Pack gets away, though with their doggy tails firmly between their legs. The ship goes down. The Gargoyles tread water. Brooklyn thanks Lex, but Lex is grateful that Brooklyn reminded him what was really important to him. And the gargoyles have a long swim back to shore.
10. Parole board. Fox is released. (Let's not mention Xanatos here.)
11. Fox steps out of prison to be greeted by (surprise, surprise) Xanatos in his Limo. They kiss. She's grateful to be out, but she's sorry his vengeance plan against the gargoyles didn't work. But Xanatos never wanted vengeance. (He's no mook.) He has his priorities straight. He just wanted to stage scene [sic] to get her out. (I love the line about icing and Fox being the cake.) But, she asks, aren't you anry that Coyote was destroyed. Xanatos holds up Coyote's head and admires it like Yorick. Half of it is still recognizable as Xanatos. Half reveals the robot skull underneath. My dear Fox, robots are easily destroyed and rebuilt. But they'll never destroy the true Coyote. Because the true coyote is Xanatos. Or some such. [Interesting. We seemed to save this idea for "Cloud Fathers". Went with the "true love" line instead.] Go out on the robot head, half smiling a typical Xanatos smile.
And that's all folks....
WereFox writes...
Ugh! Sorry about the typos in the last werewolf question. Here is another one. The mutated wolf (to me at least) most resembles the classic wolfman (ie Boris Karloff). Basically a large man with lupine feature, but still mostly a man. However, at one point duirng the battle in the Upgrade his jaws jut out like a dogs and the ears gown more pronounced, more wolflike. Here he was more akin to the modern Werewolves like those shown in The Howling series. Does he actually grow more physically wolflike here (ie "When Wolf becomes angry or outraged, a startling metamorphisis occurs.
The other alternative is that this is just a visual device (imagery) that signifies his rage. No actual transformation takes place. Which did you intend. Either way it is a neat effect.
Greg responds...
It was always Frank's intent that Wolf transform more when outraged. But I'm not sure we pulled it off even in UPGRADE. And I'm not sure we even attempted it in GRIEF or VENDETTAS. So given the reality, you can choose your preferred interpretation.
WereFox writes...
Greg
Even though her lycanthropy was induced by the eye of Oden, would Fox have been subject to the normal limitations associated with werewolves/foxes? Would she have had a vulnerabilty to silver? Also could she, and did she pass on her lycanthropy by bightring someone. I realize that we already have Wolf, our favorite mutate
Werewolf. What possible reason would we need another.
Greg responds...
I don't think so. Neither Wolf or Fox fit the traditional lycanthropic mode. Fara Maku and Tea are better examples.
More of the "Leader" memo...
Here we have Act Two from the Beat Sheet I gave Michael Reaves in my 7/94 memo on "Leader of the Pack":
ACT TWO
4. Hyena and Jackal are ready to kill Xanatos/Coyote for revenge. X/C puts them down hard. He reminds them that it was Fox who told them to go after him. She's out of the picture now. Besides, it was the gargoyles who really sent you down. They put him away once too. They've destroyed enough of his plans. He wants them bad. He's [sic] works the Pack up into a revenge-fest frenzy. They want the gargoyles. But how do they find them? As X/C puts on his helmet, he says, we let them find us.
5. Goliath, Broadway and Hudson arrive at the castle. Owen is there, but not Xanatos. Goliath is confrontational but cautious. Woen has the Pack's social calender and says they should be at PackMedia studios shortly. Goliath is immediately concerned about the others. They take off.
6. From a nearby shadowed rooftop, Brooklyn, Bronx and Lex watch the police (Elisa, Matt, maybe Morgan) check out the Studios. It gives Brooklyn time to talk to Lex. He knows how Lex feels. Everytime Demona's name get's [sic] mentioned Brooklyn feels the same way. But you can't let it take you over. You need to remember what's really important, etc. Lex isn't listening. The police leave. Lex insists on going in. Brook & Bronx follow.
7. Inside, the place is deserted -- UNTIL SUDDENLY the floor begins to open up beneath them. The PACK Assault vehicle, rises up from a secret entrance beneath. Brokklyn suggests retreat, at least until they can get reinforcements from Goliath, et al. Lex ignores him and wades right in. The battle is on. Lex (followed by Brooklyn) goes after the four pack members they recognize. Lex is a holy terror and they're doing all right, at first. His shocking ferocity making up for any deficiencies. Bronx for some reason beelines for Coyote. (Basically, he smells robot.) It's a good fight, but soon all three gargoyles are out cold and at the Pack's mercy.
ACT THREE
(To be completed next time... Finally.)
Gside writes...
Now, my sweet honey lord,
*\ 1HIV I.2.152 (approx)
Insert random first time introduction/semi-hero-worship, and other random first question material \*
Right, now that that is over with, I have a question or three.
1. Just how much does Dingo know? //1HIV 1.2.184 I am asking in the context of the Bill reference, not general knowledge
2. Was he always imitating the sun covered by base clouds, or did he not originally have much beauty to be smothered from the world? //1HIV 1.2.186-8
3. Will he be able to fully pay of the debt he never promised? //1HIV 1.2.198
Greg responds...
'Kay, Gside, I hate to disappoint you, but I don't have the complete works of Shakespeare committed to memory. And I don't have 1 Henry IV here in the office. In fact, sneaky-bastard, it took me a bit just to figure out what you were talking about.
So why don't you repost the question, giving me the actual quotes instead of line numbers. (That's called meeting me and the rest of our ASK GREG readers halfway.)
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