A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Quote: The Coyote Robot, no matter how smart it gets, will always have a bit of Wile E. Coyote in its makeup
Does this apply to Coyote X?
Sure. DEEP, DEEP DOWN. :)
Hello Greg..I was wondering do you know what does the ultra pack look like in the future tense? I mean are they upgraded again? Also .. about the Coyote.. I heard Coyote 5.0 was made in future tense..care to explain how and why?
You heard wrong, if by "future tense" you mean Gargoyles 2198.
And yes, I do have something in mind.
1. The first Pack episode 'Thrill of the Hunt' featured Wolf as brutal, yet crafty fighter (by covering for the Pack when that family spots them pummeling Goliath and Lex). However, later episodes depict him as being somewhat mentally deficient. So what happened to him? Was he brain damaged in the fight with Goliath?
(Gargoyles isn't the only show to feature this mysterious progressive intellect loss ailment. Many a villain has been quite formidable in their first few appearances only to degrade into a simpleton several years into the show's running)
2. What could you possibly name a new member of the Pack? I can't think of anymore wild dog names. (But I assume you have)
1. As I noted here in Ask Greg, I was surprised in reviewing THRILL to see how relatively smart Wolf was and how relatively dumb Fox was in their first appearance. Perhaps Wolf's upgrade had a negative effect on his intelligence. But I hope he's the only villain who qualifies under PILA. I like to think most of our villains got better with age.
2. I could, of course. Won't. But could.
Hello, Greg! Just a quickie.
I was watching the episode "Grief" this morning, and I couldn't help but wonder if Jackal pushed the Emir away because he was trying to protect the world from the Avatar OR because he wanted to be the Avatar to control life and death himself?
Thank you for your time. :)
He wanted it. He felt like Anubis, being a jackal-headed god, was connected to him.
Thanks for asking a question.
I recently realized that there is a certain similarity between the Sidero/Xavier team-up in the original comedy version of "Gargoyles" and the Hakon/Wolf team-up in "Vendettas". In both cases, a couple of villains team up against the gargoyles, one an original enemy of theirs from the Middle Ages, surviving on only as a ghost, the other a modern-day descendant of that medieval enemy who is scorned by his medieval ancestor for being too "poor-quality". Was the Sidero/Xavier team-up the distant inspiration for the Hakon/Wolf team-up?
Likely it very much was. Of course, the main motivator was the very talented Clancy Brown. But nothing gets wasted, consciously or otherwise.
Is it more than a coincidence that Hakon and his descendant Wolf both just happen to be enemies of Goliath? i mean it is a pretty big coincidence isn't it?
Not in my universe, pal.
(More like destiny.)
Would any of the spinoffs featured the Pack (or at least members of the Pack) as villains?
Thank you for your time.
Sure. Most. Let's see...
Gargoyles 2158 (revised)
And I wouldn't be surprised if we also saw them in
But I would be surprised if they showed up in
Apparently, correct me if I'm wrong, Hakon and Wolf are voiced by the same guy. Hakon was the earlier character. Was the same actor chosen for Wolf with the knowledge that they were distantly related, or did that idea come later? As in the time of 'Vendettas'?
The idea came long before Vendettas. But definitely was inspired by the fact that Clancy played both parts. I think it came shortly after "Leader of the Pack" was voice recorded.
1) In response to the 'which Coyote' thing in being compared to intelligence with Talos, I mean Coyote 6.0 and 7.0
2) What is it that makes Talos so smart? Extremely advanced AI? Remaining sorcery from Daidolos/a Cyclops' manufacture? All or none of the above?
1. I don't know. I think probably Talos. The Coyote Robot, no matter how smart it gets, will always have a bit of Wile E. Coyote in its make-up.
2. Advanced A.I. mostly. (Keep in mind he's been rebuilt and upgraded many times. Both in hardware and software. Only his basic design style and memory files have remained consistent.)
A while back, in your 'Leader of the Pack' ramble, you mentioned that Wolf would be the one to challenge Coyote for leadership (and be subsequently beaten up) so that Hyena wouldn't have the chance to step aside. Why wouldn't Dingo or Jackal try to gain leadership? And, if somehow it came down to Wolf, Hyena, Dingo, and Jackal as the only members of the Pack, who would Dingo and Jackal support, respectively, since apparently it would be Wolf and Hyena vying for power.
Thank you for your time (and apologies for the run-on sentences).
I don't think either Jackal or Dingo (or truly Hyena) had any real ambition to lead.
But I can't answer your last hypothetical, because it bears no fruit.
Here again with a pretty specific question. Ok, we know that there was going to be an Ultra-Pack, and that this Pack would have one new member. I, having an interest in recognizing animals, have tried to narrow down the options as to the Pack name for this new member. Now, I am trying not to single out a name, since that would be a story idea, so I'll see if this goes through:
Well, pretty much all standard wild Canids and one related type have been used; Wolf, Fox, Jackal, Hyena(which is actually more closely related to cats!), Dingo, and Coyote. So, what do we have left? A petty easy one is Wild Dog (shortening from African Wild Dog.) This name seems to fit and is simple enough not to confuse the general public. Considering this series is designed for a general audience, I don't think anyone would know what a Dhole is. Most other uniquely named canids are foxes, and the Culpeo is more closely related to Domestic Dogs (I think.) Thus, although I would like to see Dhole (although viewers might mistake that name for Dingo), and if it is not a Wild Dog, the only other choice I see is in non-canids. In otherwords, the Thylacine (Tasmanian Wolf.) I honestly can't see any other addition, unless you consider that the Maned Wolf is not a true wolf. So, have I narrowed it down? Are any of the names I've listed the name? Do you wish to keep a secret? Am I missing any? Am I just being a pain?
You're half right.
How did Hakon get out of the cave after Shadows of the Past?
He inhabited the axe. Wolf took up the axe and carried it off. (But I do wish I had made it a mace.)
Which is more intelligent, roughly: Talos, Coyote or the Golem?
Wait, which Coyote?
In "The Thrill of the Hunt," Fox and Wolf were arrested when the photographer took pictures of them holding a women hostage. Don't you think that, while he was busy getting pictures, he would have taken the time to photograph Goliath too? I mean, that would seem a bit more noteworthy to me than two TV stars turning bad. Why didn't he?
I don't think he intended to photograph Fox and Wolf either. He was stunned, paralized. But his camera had an auto-shutter and he was pressing down on the button. Fox and Wolf were standing right where his models had been. So he got them on film. Goliath was out of view. The photographer didn't have the presence of mind to do anything but stand there. Rewatch the episode. I'm not making this up. That's what happened.
Out of curiosity, which Coyote robot is your favorite?
They're all like children to me.
There's something I've always wondered about the Pack: how exactly were they imprisoned once they were upgraded? Wolf, Jackal, and Hyena all had enhanced strength, and the latter two were equipted with all sorts of mechanical gismos and morphng technology. When Hyena was unconcious on the steps in "The Green," Officer Morgan wasn't in too big a hurry to get her into a secure place--once she came to, she could have easily beaten he crap out of him and his partner and escaped. Did the authorities have to build special facilities for holding the Upgraded Pack?
Probably, but you'll notice that jails didn't hold the Pack too well after their upgrades. So success was limited.
RE: Thrill of the Hunt
When I first saw this I was still getting used to the characters myself, so most of the impact this ep had on me came in later viewings.
What I did like in my first viewing was the Pack itself. They were very interesting antagonists to me for some reason. Possibly it was because they were human and managed to give the gargoyles a hard time there for a while. Also, the Xanatos Tag. I almost missed that the first time I watched the show. I thought it was over when the gargoyles went to sleep, so I went to get a drink or snack or something. Then I came back and there's Xanatos talking about how "the test was most...informative [smirk]". I was completely blown away by this (and gained even more respect for how dangerous Xanatos could be). I also remember liking the fact that Xanatos's ownership of the castle was addressed and not swept under the rug. It was refreashing to have previous events being referred to and having an effect on the present.
In later viewings, I found even more things to like. My favorite part in the whole episode is when Goliath and Lex have the advantage. After seeing the Pack mercilessly come after them, I got kind of a vindictive pleasure in having the gargoyles now acting as the silent stalkers. It's kind of like a horror movie almost--only this time you want the "monsters" to win. Come to think of it, I've always gotten a big kick whenever any of the gargoyles were scaring/beating the living tar out of their opponents. I never really thought about how they became "borderline cuddly" as the series progressed. Maybe we all just got familiar with them. But I always liked seeing them cut loose when they did.
As for the whole stunt show--so insanely corny I almost couldn't watch. Great send-up of the P--uh, you-know-whats.
I hadn't given much thought to Wolf's display of brain's or Fox's lapse in judgement until you mentioned them. Fox's is easy to forgive (for reasons you have already stated). Wolf--wow, it surprises me I never noticed it before.
Pointless note: I didn't expect the Pack to appear again after this. I didn't know there were any ideas to bring them back in at any later point, so when Jackal and Hyena showed up about 6 eps later I was surprised (and a bit delighted).
As for the animation, I never saw what the problem with it was. Even after the multiparter, I thought the animation here was still good (at least above the level of quality reached by your average animated show).
Oh, and I agree with you wholeheartedly about television.;-)
I was concerned that the Pack might seem too generic as super-villains, but I think we managed to make them come alive as interesting characters. New stories just kept suggesting themselves, so the Pack keeps coming back.
We have a winner:
THE HYENA CONTEST
Hyena smiles because she's amused by Elisa's values. Elisa is clearly playing by the "good guy" rules, which
say that you don't shoot someone when you could arrest them, you don't drop Xanatos off the building, etc.
Hyena believes that when it's in your best interests for someone to be dead, you kill them. It's funny to
Hyena that Elisa could be so deluded by ideas of "right" and "wrong" that she would let someone as
dangerous as Hyena live to fight another day when it would be so easy just to kill her and solve the problem
Adam's entry came in first. And I kept waiting for someone to top it, but it never happened. Good work.
I'd like to thank Aaron, Jackal's Love, The Christine Morgan, Derek!, E.J. Kalafarski and Duncan Devlin for entering.
Adam, contact either Gore or Todd Jensen with your e-mail address so that we can arrange to give you your prize. Congratulations.
"THE HYENA CONTEST"
Hyena realizes she will be able to get her revenge upon the person who truly put her in such a compromising position: Fox. Notice that Hyena closes her eyes in addition to smiling. In her mind, Hyena is playing a game of 'it's not my fault' with the intention of making Fox painfully find out it was her fault. She closes her eyes and envisions punishing, then smiles at her little fantasy. Hyena is a sadistic little bitch, as can be seen in the twinges of her smile.
Thanks for entering. You entered twenty minutes under the wire. So we shouldn't have too many more entries left. Results soon.
"THE HYENA CONTEST"
Elisa has her gun trained on Hyena. Hyena's beaten. But she smiles. Because, in her mind, Hyena truly believes that she cannot be beaten. She believes that she is infinitely superior to Elisa Maza, or the gargoyles, or anyone, for that matter. This superiority complex is later manifested when she and Jackal enhance themselves with cybernetic technology. They feel this unconscious need to prove that they are better than anyone else, that they are above society, and that they have no equals. This is why Hyena smiles. Because, someday, the world will know that she can never be beaten.
Thanks for entering.
The contest is almost over. Results soon.
1) Who has more money, Macbeth or Xanatos?
2) How much money do the Canmores have?
3) Just how much did the Pack profit financially from their tv show?
1. From a liquid standpoint, Xanatos. Macbeth may have some extremely valuable items, that would be worth a fortune if he was willing to part with them, but he's largely not...
2. An extremely large trust.
3. Quite a bit. But not as much as Xanatos did.
THE HYENA CONTEST
Hyena is smiling because she's eager to get back to women's prison and hopes her next cellmate will be more 'accomodating' than Fox ; )
Except this episode takes place before Hyena went to prison and "roomed" with Fox. Who may or may not have been accomodating.
Now who scares who?
THE HYENA CONTEST
From the beginning of the episode, we see that Hyena is not content with living a "normal life". She wants to be, if you'll excuse the teenage phrase, hardcore. Wolf and Fox had already proven they were tough by getting thrown into prison for taking a woman hostage. Perhaps in her somewhat warped view of things, she was proving she was as good, if not better than they were. They were arrested for taking a model hostage; she, however tried to assassinate one of the richest men on earth. Who do you think would be considered more dangerous?
Thanks for participating. Results some day.
Hyena says "I'm not beaten yet", and Elisa responds by shouting "Oh, yes you are!". Hyena looks angry for a second, then smiles. I think she does this because she's thinking "Oh, no I'm not." She realizes that she's down but not out, and that although she may have to bide her time, she'll get out, and in the meantime she's going to go to prison with her brother to plan what happens next. So Hyena's smile her way of laughing at Elisa, who has no idea just how wrong she is.
Thank you for entering. Results when all the entries are in.
Well, I guess I'll take a shot at this, before more eloquent guys like Aris and Airwalker take it.
The Hyena Contest.
I think the twins had a very... strange childhood, which didn't impress them with the fundamental goodness of humanity. At the end of the day, each is probably the only one that the other even partially trusts.
They're both terrified of being alone, which is why a psychopath and a sociopath stay together. Hyena is smiling because she knows, subconsciously, that getting captured is the only way to stay with her brother.
(Or maybe Hyena was so glad not to be blind after seeing a million candle-power searchlight through her NVGs, she was happy to see anything, even a cop)
Thanks. Contests results to follow... someday....
THE HYENA CONTEST
Hyena smiles because she's amused by Elisa's values. Elisa is clearly playing by the "good guy" rules, which say that you don't shoot someone when you could arrest them, you don't drop Xanatos off the building, etc. Hyena believes that when it's in your best interests for someone to be dead, you kill them. It's funny to Hyena that Elisa could be so deluded by ideas of "right" and "wrong" that she would let someone as dangerous as Hyena live to fight another day when it would be so easy just to kill her and solve the problem permanently.
Thanks Adam, good answer. I know you posted it in March. It's almost July, and you're the first entry to the contest I've seen. I had to go back and look up the rules, it's been so long. Anyway, when I finally get through all the April posts, I'll announce a winner.
About your Ultra-Pack.
The Pack showed signs of dissention in "The Thrill of the Hunt" all the way through "Grief" where it looked like they could barely stomach each other. What makes them stay together when the Ultra-Pack is formed? I don't suppose even their own greed and lust for violence could keep them together at this point.
Coyote finds a way. Carrot and stick, so to speak.
I've already dealt with the changes between the first and second seasons of GARGOYLES. (See a previous ramble on that subject.) And hopefully you've all read the serialized postings of the memo I wrote to Michael Reaves in July of 94. Note the date. I was writing that memo to Michael a good three months before the first season of the series would actually premiere. Meaning, Michael, myself, all of us, were just guessing.
Now, finally, I have the time to sit down and ramble about my recent re-viewing of "Leader"...
STORY EDITOR: Michael Reaves.
WRITER: Steven Perry.
Some things were coming to fruition in this episode. A CY.O.T.I. robot had been part of the original development of the show and the Pack. Six characters seemed like a bit much, but the main reason we left CY.O.T.I. out of "Thrill of the Hunt" was because of the way we wound up intro-ing the Pack, that is as a group of T.V. super-heroes. Giving them a realistic robot in that context didn't seem to fit. By the time we got around to introducing the show's version of the Coyote robot (note the NORMAL spelling) much had changed in how we conceived the thing. And yet many of the original elements were still present, if altered. The orignal CY.O.T.I. (CYber-Operational Technical Individual -- or something like that) was a hovering robotic head. But not a Xanatos head. It was a dog-faced head. The head could attach to multiple different robotic bodies, as well as lock into various vehicles as a kind-of autoMATED pilot. One of the robotic bodies was four-legged, dog-shaped. Another was bipedal. But in either case there was never any question that the robot was a robot.
But by the time, we got to "Leader" we had learned so much more about our characters, that our whole conception of CY.O.T.I. changed into the Coyote you know. Part of the change came right out of how sophisticated Xanatos himself was. David constantly made Michael and I jump through hoops to come up with trickier and trickier plots. Plots that would allow the Gargoyles to generally triumph, and yet allow Xanatos to snatch some real victory out of seeming total defeat in what had become our trademark Xanatos Tag sequences. The one in "Leader" is one of the best, which brings up another thing that came to fruition in this episode. When we first created the Pack, I had NO IDEA that Fox and Xanatos were an item. That was a complete discovery, a revelation that came to us during the making of "Her Brother's Keeper": akin to, "Ohmigod, Fox is in love with David!!!" I don't know if it shocked you guys, but it sure came as a surprise to me, their so-called creator. Another instance when I think of myself less as a writer, and more as simply the guy who was tapping into what was really going on in the GARGOYLES UNIVERSE. When did you guys figure it out? During "Brother's Keeper"? During "Leader"? Or not until the end of "Leader" when it was objectively revealed? (Obviously, any of you who saw later episodes first are disqualified from voting on this one.)
Anyway, since we knew they were destined for each other, and we had this semi-top secret plan for them to marry and extremely top-secret plan for them to procreate, we knew we had to get Fox out of jail. And not break her out. But have her out more-or-less scott free. So that would be Xanatos' plan. All the subterfuge would lead to that. Having the robot pose as Xanatos in armor, allowed us for the kind of multiple surprise onion-peeling kind of story that I just live for. Plus it would leave us with a more wieldy five-man Pack again. Fox would graduate. Coyote would take her place.
One tricky thing was electronically futzing Jonathan Frakes' voice when Coyote was wearing his helmet. We wanted to alter it enough so that no one would know it was "Xanatos" until after he took off the helmet. But we didn't want to alter it SO much that you couldn't register Jonathan's standardly and casually wonderful acting AS Xanatos inside the armor. I think we succeeded. (Credit for that goes to the guys at Advantage Audio, who mixed the show. Real unsung heroes.)
We also gave Jamie Thomason, our voice director, and Jonathan the key note that would differentiate the true Xanatos from Coyote. And that was Coyote's fairly primitive desire for vengeance. If I do say so myself, I thought this was a terrific clue, a great moment of fair play, planted in the story. I wanted people to be a little surprised that Xanatos would care about vengeance. But I also figured most would buy into it, because we're all so trained to think of villains in a certain way. But then when Xanatos calls revenge a "sucker's game" at the end, the audience would feel "Oh, of course. That's OUR Xanatos. The other guy was just a cheap imitation." Who was fooled? Who wasn't? I'm curious to know.
When Coyote first took off his helmet at the end of Act One, my three year old son Ben yelled out "Xanatos!" He was truly and wonderfully surprised at that moment. It was fun.
Random observation: Wolf's not doing real push-ups. Not fully extending, either up or down.
Another thing we did do for the NEW SEASON start up was feature the gargs EXPLODING out of stone. Another of our series' trademarks that we wanted to be sure to get into the first episode of the new season.
Coyote clearly has a "quip chip" installed. He's got some great very Xanatosian lines. "Exact change". "Wanna see what I can do with both hands." Etc.
In fact lots of characters have great cutting lines in this one. Owen is wonderfully officious, even a tad smarmy in this one. You can almost see Puck smiling through, and this is before I knew Owen was Puck. But his, "Shouldn't you... be there." is just great.
Or Brooklyn's line: "Yeah, why should we stay up here... where it's safe." Great.
And Hyena: "I love a man who brings me weapons..." and "A robot?! Even better." Classic. And that was another discovery. Hyena would have the hots for Coyote. It wouldn't necessarily be reciprocated, but the mere fact that he was a robot wouldn't bug her. (I'm guessing she's used to using technology to satisfy her desires.) On some level, I think this was us (and Hyena) just being perverse for the sake of perverseness. But I also think it created an interesting parallel to Goliath and Elisa's relationship, if that doesn't sound to preposterous.
Another random observation: Hyena mentions Santa Claus. :) Ho ho ho.
I think there was a semi-conscious desire to give every character something that new and returning viewers could use to hang their hats on, so-to-speak.
Lex is still so angry at the Pack for events in "Thrill of the Hunt" that he's literally HOPPING mad. Actually, that bit of hopping bugged me. Made Lex look silly and young at a point when I was hoping to present him as truly dangerous. Oh, well...
Brooklyn still feels the same way about Demona. And he's self-aware enough to know it. Though not mature enough to get passed it. (That'll come -- sometime in 2158.)
Broadway still hates guns and smashes them at every opportunity. (Lex obviously doesn't share his rookery-brother's opinion. Lex looks real tough holding that launcher. And I think it's a fairly shocking moment when that hole gets blown in Coyote's torso, and Lex is revealed -- through the hole, no less -- as the shooter. Even though we know by this time that Coyote is a robot, I still think it's one of the most violent images that ever appeared in our show. And it's all about context and attitude. You get the sense that Lex might just do the exact same thing to any of the human members of the Pack too.)
Hudson is still the observant guy who deduces events from what remains behind. "There's been a struggle here..." is right in keeping with his tracking skills and the way he examined that tampered-with bow back in "Awakening, Part Two".
Bronx is still a good judge of character. And he hates robots with fearful abandon. We decided he could literally smell when something isn't human. If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, we naturally assume that it's a duck. But for Bronx it better smell like a duck or he's going to rip its face off, eh? That was another great shocking moment, I think. There's a little bit of WESTWORLD homage going on. Or FEMBOT homage, depending on how old you are. (I'm old enough to remember both.) It's pretty cool. And I love Coyote's head rocketing off at the end. It's so cool and sick. I fell in love with that head, and decided to use it in all future Coyote's -- one way or another.
Nietzche, Sartre, Kafka. That exchange was pure Perry-Reaves. And people tell me _I_ write to old for the demographic. Geez.
I love that moment when the phone rings at PackMedia Studios. (Also have I mentioned I love the name PackMedia. It's so perfect.) Anyway, Broadway's tentative response, before picking it up. And Owen knowing someone WOULD just pick up. It kills me.
As most of you know I favor one word titles. But "Leader of the Pack" WAS in fact one of mine. It was just irresistible.
The fight between the Gargs and the Pack aboard the oil tanker was very well-choreographed in script. But this was an instance where, in my opinion, our board artists lost the forest for the trees. The fight in storyboard went off on some wonderful tangents -- that wound up creating problems for those interested in keeping track of our combatants. Who was where and when just became a mess. We basically were able to fix those problems in film editing. But that's accomplished by keeping the fight well-paced. In the script, I actually think it's well-choreographed. In particular, Broadway freeing Lex, Brook and Bronx made a bit more sense in the script.
Coyote's perception-warping weapon is very cool. We probably didn't use it enough. Mainly because it was too effective. Too hard to stop.
I wanted the gargs to have to swim back to shore from the sinking tanker. But no one else agreed with me.
The head of Fox's parole board is voiced by Jim Cummings (aka Dingo, Darkwing Duck, Bonkers, etc.), doing his best Orson Wells imitation. Which is damned good by the way. Jim Cummings and Jeff Bennett in the same show. Man, were we blessed or what?
And coming full circle, we have our great Xanatos Tag. The villains kiss passionately. You don't see that too often in cartoons, I think. I love Xanatos' great line "That was merely the icing, you're the cake." And also his "true love is so much harder to come by." But here's my question for you guys. At the time, did you really think Xanatos was truly in love with Fox, or did you think he was merely being glib? I knew by that time, but even David didn't. Wasn't until "Eye of the Beholder" that HE realized how deep his feelings were for Fox.
1.When Coyote 3.0 said "I was programmed for vengeance!" did he mean it literally or did he just think it was the right thing to say at the time?
Both. I talked about his Quip Chip in my last ramble. But I think Xanatos wanted to make sure the robot stayed focused.
You mentioned some time earlier that there were two canid names left for the fifth member of the Ultra-Pack. What are they? And which would be given to the new guy?
Must I chose?
Finally, the last section of the 7/94 "Leader of the Pack" memo. Act Three of the Beat Sheet. I'll try to type up my new ramble on the episode soon...
8. Goliath, Hudson and Broadway arrive at the Packmedia Studio. It's quiet. Inside, they see the damage. But no sign of the missing gargoyles. The phone rings. Broadway answers it tentatively. It's Owen. He was wondering if he could schedule an appointment for the Gargoyles to have a big fight with the Pack at the Oil Tanker Whatever-Maru in the harbor. Is Midnight convenient?
9. On the Tanker. In a carvernous empty oil tank, Lex, Brook and Bronx sit inside, effectively imprisoned. Lex swears even more vengence [sic]. Brooklyn can't get through to him. (Maybe Brook makes some sarcastic reference to the three of them always getting captured. First Macbeth nets them, now the Pack.) [Note: This story just structured out that way. So this tidbit was me acknowledging the coincidence, so that the viewer wouldn't think we -- the writers -- were oblivious to it. Greg 2000] Eventually, the other three gargoyles show up for the fight. Broadway is sent to find the others while Goliath and Hudson run interference. At one point, Goliath digs his claws into Coyote's helmet and rips it off, revealing "Xanatos". Goliath isn't too surprised. But eventually after the others are freed, he is surprised. Bronx again beelines for "Xanatos"/Coyote. He smells robot and claws off half of the rubber Xanatos mask to reveal the Coyote robot beneath. [Do you know, I was half afraid that some people would take this to mean that Xanatos had been a robot all along. Greg 2000] Even the Pack is shocked and the tide of battle begins to turn for good, especially after Lex picks up one of Dingo's fallen weapons and blows a hole in Coyote's chest. The robot really malfunctions now. The head "evacuates" and rockets into the sky to escape. The Pack decides to retreat in their Attack Vehicle, but opt to blow up the tanker to cover their escape. Lex in the end has to choose between saving Brooklyn and preventing the Pack's escape. Obviously, he saves Brooklyn and the Pack gets away, though with their doggy tails firmly between their legs. The ship goes down. The Gargoyles tread water. Brooklyn thanks Lex, but Lex is grateful that Brooklyn reminded him what was really important to him. And the gargoyles have a long swim back to shore.
10. Parole board. Fox is released. (Let's not mention Xanatos here.)
11. Fox steps out of prison to be greeted by (surprise, surprise) Xanatos in his Limo. They kiss. She's grateful to be out, but she's sorry his vengeance plan against the gargoyles didn't work. But Xanatos never wanted vengeance. (He's no mook.) He has his priorities straight. He just wanted to stage scene [sic] to get her out. (I love the line about icing and Fox being the cake.) But, she asks, aren't you anry that Coyote was destroyed. Xanatos holds up Coyote's head and admires it like Yorick. Half of it is still recognizable as Xanatos. Half reveals the robot skull underneath. My dear Fox, robots are easily destroyed and rebuilt. But they'll never destroy the true Coyote. Because the true coyote is Xanatos. Or some such. [Interesting. We seemed to save this idea for "Cloud Fathers". Went with the "true love" line instead.] Go out on the robot head, half smiling a typical Xanatos smile.
And that's all folks....
Ugh! Sorry about the typos in the last werewolf question. Here is another one. The mutated wolf (to me at least) most resembles the classic wolfman (ie Boris Karloff). Basically a large man with lupine feature, but still mostly a man. However, at one point duirng the battle in the Upgrade his jaws jut out like a dogs and the ears gown more pronounced, more wolflike. Here he was more akin to the modern Werewolves like those shown in The Howling series. Does he actually grow more physically wolflike here (ie "When Wolf becomes angry or outraged, a startling metamorphisis occurs.
The other alternative is that this is just a visual device (imagery) that signifies his rage. No actual transformation takes place. Which did you intend. Either way it is a neat effect.
It was always Frank's intent that Wolf transform more when outraged. But I'm not sure we pulled it off even in UPGRADE. And I'm not sure we even attempted it in GRIEF or VENDETTAS. So given the reality, you can choose your preferred interpretation.
Even though her lycanthropy was induced by the eye of Oden, would Fox have been subject to the normal limitations associated with werewolves/foxes? Would she have had a vulnerabilty to silver? Also could she, and did she pass on her lycanthropy by bightring someone. I realize that we already have Wolf, our favorite mutate
Werewolf. What possible reason would we need another.
I don't think so. Neither Wolf or Fox fit the traditional lycanthropic mode. Fara Maku and Tea are better examples.
Here we have Act Two from the Beat Sheet I gave Michael Reaves in my 7/94 memo on "Leader of the Pack":
4. Hyena and Jackal are ready to kill Xanatos/Coyote for revenge. X/C puts them down hard. He reminds them that it was Fox who told them to go after him. She's out of the picture now. Besides, it was the gargoyles who really sent you down. They put him away once too. They've destroyed enough of his plans. He wants them bad. He's [sic] works the Pack up into a revenge-fest frenzy. They want the gargoyles. But how do they find them? As X/C puts on his helmet, he says, we let them find us.
5. Goliath, Broadway and Hudson arrive at the castle. Owen is there, but not Xanatos. Goliath is confrontational but cautious. Woen has the Pack's social calender and says they should be at PackMedia studios shortly. Goliath is immediately concerned about the others. They take off.
6. From a nearby shadowed rooftop, Brooklyn, Bronx and Lex watch the police (Elisa, Matt, maybe Morgan) check out the Studios. It gives Brooklyn time to talk to Lex. He knows how Lex feels. Everytime Demona's name get's [sic] mentioned Brooklyn feels the same way. But you can't let it take you over. You need to remember what's really important, etc. Lex isn't listening. The police leave. Lex insists on going in. Brook & Bronx follow.
7. Inside, the place is deserted -- UNTIL SUDDENLY the floor begins to open up beneath them. The PACK Assault vehicle, rises up from a secret entrance beneath. Brokklyn suggests retreat, at least until they can get reinforcements from Goliath, et al. Lex ignores him and wades right in. The battle is on. Lex (followed by Brooklyn) goes after the four pack members they recognize. Lex is a holy terror and they're doing all right, at first. His shocking ferocity making up for any deficiencies. Bronx for some reason beelines for Coyote. (Basically, he smells robot.) It's a good fight, but soon all three gargoyles are out cold and at the Pack's mercy.
(To be completed next time... Finally.)
Now, my sweet honey lord,
*\ 1HIV I.2.152 (approx)
Insert random first time introduction/semi-hero-worship, and other random first question material \*
Right, now that that is over with, I have a question or three.
1. Just how much does Dingo know? //1HIV 1.2.184 I am asking in the context of the Bill reference, not general knowledge
2. Was he always imitating the sun covered by base clouds, or did he not originally have much beauty to be smothered from the world? //1HIV 1.2.186-8
3. Will he be able to fully pay of the debt he never promised? //1HIV 1.2.198
'Kay, Gside, I hate to disappoint you, but I don't have the complete works of Shakespeare committed to memory. And I don't have 1 Henry IV here in the office. In fact, sneaky-bastard, it took me a bit just to figure out what you were talking about.
So why don't you repost the question, giving me the actual quotes instead of line numbers. (That's called meeting me and the rest of our ASK GREG readers halfway.)
Sorry, everyone, I know this is going very slowly. But transcribing is really boring. So I can't stand to do too much at a time. Anyway, here's another chunk of my 7-2-94 memo to Michael Reaves regarding "Leader of the Pack":
1. Sundown. Open w/prison break. Let's make it much more fast and furious. It can start quier, but almost immediately should go to explosions, alarms, etc. The guards become aware of the break IMMEDIATELY. A big action set-piece. No time for a lot of talk. Also, let's have Dingo bust out the boys, and Coyote bust out the girls. It's a more practical plan. They'll all meet up in the NEW all-terrain PACK ATTACK vehicle. (And no, Kenner isn't asking for this, I am. Xanatos has the resources. After he saw Macbeth's hover-thing, he'd start his people on R&D. This is the result. The Pack should not be hand-to-mouth. This thing should be a flying submarine multi-purpose thing. Real cool.)
2. Just after sundown at the clock tower, Elisa informs the argoyles that there's a prison break and the Pack's involved. Lex goes bananas. WE'VE GOT TO BRING THEM DOWN. Goliath agrees with the sentiment, if not he intensity. Manhattan is their castle to protect. But Broadway wants to know, how do they find the Pack? Lex is sure they'll return to Packmedia Studios. Elisa disagrees, that's the first place the cops are going to look. Lex is positive. They're like animals. They'll eventually return to their cave to hide. He's going there to wait and watch. Goliath figures on being more pro-active. He knows Xanatos is behind the Pack from Elisa's talk with Fox in "Brother's Keeper". He's going to the castle. Broadway & Hudson are going with him. Brooklyn is concerned about Lex. He insists on going with Lex to the studio. He also insists on taking Bronx.
3. Aboard the Pack's vehicle, Coyote and Wolf fight for the right to lead. (Let Wolf make the first challenge, so that we aren't forced to make Hyena politely step aside.) Coyote wins, but Hyena and Jackal insist on seeing his face. Coyote vouluntarily removes his helmet, revealing that he is "Xanatos".
(to be continued...)
This continues my transcription of the memo I wrote to Michael Reaves on 7-2-94 regarding Steve Perry's original outline on "Leader of the Pack"...
Specific Notes & Questions...
Some of these will be rendered moot by other changes, but for future reference...
--No YoYo's for Brooklyn. He's too old to be playing with that. (Not that I don't enjoy a well-balanced yo-yo myself, but it's embematic [sic] of being really young. Like having him play jacks. Remember, this is a guy who likes motorcycles.)
--I liked the Hudson game show scenelet. Maybe slip that in right before Elisa tells the gargs about the prison break. If it no longer fits, save it for another episode.
--I think Wolf is a descendant of Hakon's. [It's interesting to me now that I put this comment in this memo. It's absolutely apropos of nothing. I must have just wanted to write it down somewhere so that I'd remember. Greg 2000]
--The gargoyles exo-sheathe remnants don't dissolve into vapor.
--Is a smoking jacket really Xanatos' style?
--Suddenly, on the bottom of page 3, Goliath has spider-sense. Maybe not.
--Goliath seems to be brooding about things he's already come to terms with. "...enemy one day, friend the next." He learned that lesson from the Captain in episodes 1 & 2.
(to be continued soon...)
Few questions on the robotic twins.
1)Are Jackal and Hyena's parents alive and who are they? (what are their names,where do they live?)
2)What are Jackal and Hyena's real names?
3)Would they be alive in G2158? I mean,when they're finished getting better upgrades they'll probably have their insides scooped out and replaced with circuits and wires and guns etc.
4) I know this contradicts my last question and the answers probably no but can they have kids?
1. Haven't focused on this yet.
2. I've covered this to the extent I intend to at this time. Check the Pack archive.
3. They would not be alive. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a J&H.
4. Why not? I'm confident they would not have allowed their sexual organs to be removed.
ASK GREG is back up and running. (Thank you, Gorebash.)
Unfortunately, Murphy's Law in in effect, and I'm now swamped with work. (More on that tomorrow.) I'll try to get to your questions and comments A.S.A.P. In the meantime, I've watched another episode "Leader of the Pack". I've taken notes to write a ramble but I don't have time to compose it tonight. But I also wanted to post my July, '94 memo to Michael Reaves regarding his first draft outline on this episode. (Like the one I posted for "Reawakening".) I have a hard copy of this memo, but unfortunately -- there's that Murphy's Law again -- I don't seem to have a computer file for it. (Which, frankly, is truly bizarre.) Still, retyping this is faster than composing something original. But I don't know if I'll have time to retype the entire five page memo tonight. So bear with me. This could take a while... (I'll try to keep all the typos intact. And I'll add a few new comments in [brackets].)
Greg Weisman 7-2-94
NOTES ON OUTLINE for "Leader of the Pack"
Michael, I think we can focus the story a little more. And I think there's quite a bit of padding that we can trim down, but on the whole, a good start.
--Let's focus this by making it Lexington's story. A real companion piece to "Thrill of the Hunt". In that story, Lex was too trusting. In this he'll be hell-bent on REVENGE. That's today's theme. And today's lesson is about setting priorities -- and how revenge ain't a great one. Lex comes close to letting his lust for revenge take priority over his concern for his life and his friends. Same with the Pack. They break prison; they could head for Rio. But they want revenge on the gargoyles more. It gets them in trouble. Ironically, only Xanatos has his priorities straight. He didn't give a damn about revenge on the gargoyles. He just cared about his "friend" Fox and getting her released from her unfortunate incarceration. [A DESIGNING WOMEN reference -- Greg 2000]
--Given the above. Let's see Lex as the true monster he can be. As frightening as possible, as often as possible.
--The stuff w/Dingo's change of heart was nice. It gave me a great idea for a story about him trying to go straight, set in Australia during the WORLD TOUR. But I think it's out of place here. It's distracting to the main story. I don't want Dingo to start to turn yet. He didn't have to come back from Europe to help the others. Let's keep him gung-ho for now. (When we do the Pack Upgrade Story, in which Wolf will submit to Doc Sevarius' genetic treatment ala Talon, and Hyena and Jackal will undergo cyborgizing ala Coldstone, we'll plant the seed there that Dingo thinks things are getting carried away. He'll choose removable robot-armor, and we'll play some of these beats then.) [When you're working on 65 episodes you try not to waste anything. And the characters begin to define their own destinies. But you need to pace them. -- Greg 2000]
--Coyote's abilities need some clarification. Let's start by thinking this is a stranger wearing some kind of power-armor. Jet black, anubis-headed armor. We'll modify or harmonize Jonathan's voice. Then when he removes the dog-faced armored head, we reveal that it's Xanatos inside the armor. The audience will buy this because of "The Edge" story. When COYOTE has the "helmet" off, we'll use Jonathan's voice un-harmonized. But obviously for battle scenes he'll put the helmet back on. A slight clue that Coyote isn't the real Xanatos will be that Coyote seems more determined to get revenge than we'd normally expect from the rational Xanatos we've come to know and love. Then at the end, we'll reveal the robot beneath the Xanatos face. We also need to make a bigger deal of this reveal. I think it would be cool, if after the body is damaged beyond repair, the semi-damaged head, takes off, shooting into the sky like a comet, abandoning the Pack. At any rate, we can now have Coyote be very powerful throughout the episode, without our audience suspecting the truth. What can the Coyote "armor" (i.e. the Coyote/Xanaots robot) do? Does it have built-in jet-boots and weapons systems? Let's make it real tough and cool.
--In general, we need to be really careful not to let the Pack seem weak or incompetent. I doubt Elisa can outshoot them. They've been defeated twice already. If we don't up the ante, we've lost these characters as effective adversaries.
--The huge emphasis on updrafts can be dumped. We've already shown the gargoyles glide to and from Liberty Island in "The Edge". How far out in the water is this tanker? Better not to go into too much detail.
--Same with the Pack's search for the gargoyles. Why raise the issue about how easy it is to find the gargoyles? Besides, the method used here could take weeks, if not months. Let the gargoyles find the Pack. We can dump the CD-ROM disk.
--The mirrored shields was a good idea. But it pre-supposes a Lexington who is rational enough to use his head and come up with it. Not this story. But remember it for later use. [O.K. I guess some things did get wasted. --Greg 2000]
--We definitely don't need or want Derek in this story. If it comes before "Metamorphosis" than we don't want to mess with his loyalty to Xanatos. If it comes after, then obviously he's not Derek anymore, but Talon. Anyway, we won't need him. The way I figure it, Elisa's role in this story is fairly minimal. I didn't like her as victim/hostage, so I largely dumped her. So we can leave Derek out, as well.
--Fox should protect he guard first, then refuse to go. When she refuses Hyena's inclined to kill her too. Coyote prevents it by indicating there's no time. Also, I've cut the middle Fox scene 14. Better that the audience forget about her until the end.
Specific Notes & Questions....
[to follow tomorrow, hopefully...]
I was just wondering, how much do the police know about Wolf, Jackal and Hyena? For instance, was Wolf only in prison for what happened in 'Thrill of the Hunt', and Jackal and Hyena for 'Her Brother's Keeper'? Or, since I assume that those three weren't exactly on the right side beforehand, was it for more? Do the police know about the other things they've done, their real names and identities, or just what the viewers of Gargoyles know (prehaps less)?
Thank you for your time.
Wolf, Jackal and Hyena managed to stay on the windy side of the law -- at least as far as the authorities knew -- until "Thrill" and "Brother's".
I imagine the cops know their real names: Rolf, Jack and Heidi. (JUST KIDDING!! JOKE JOKE!!)
Hey, I missed April Fools Day!
No questions today; just a ramble of my own.
I'm really enjoying your comments about each episode as you re-watch the series. You'll probably be way past it by the time you read this, but I'd like to tell you about a memorable episode for me.
It was the first one of the second season, "Leader of the Pack." I was knocked out of my socks from surprise three times in that one episode.
The first surprise was when Coyote took off his helmet in front of the Pack. I wasn't surprised to see that it was Xanatos; I "knew" it was him from his first line. What I was surprised about was that he would reveal himself to them. Xanatos was a behind-the-scenes villain who had others do his dirty work for him. It took me by surprise.
My second shock came when Bronx ripped off half of Coyote's face. I had no idea that he wasn't really Xanatos.
The third surprise was at the end when Xanatos picked up Fox in his limo and they started kissing. I didn't see that coming at all. I was suspicious when Fox refused to escape, but the idea that she and Xanatos were in love never entered my mind.
Of course there were a lot of other memorable moments in the series, but three surprises in one half-hour makes that episode stick out in my mind.
Thanks for a great show, and I hope to see more in the future.
I liked the show too. And I think it was very shocking also.
We tried to keep ya guessing as much as possible. (Of course, as you know, I'm still a couple episodes away from doing my "Leader" ramble.) But this one was particularly fun. Though of course, I felt we had laid pipe for the revelations during the conversation that Elisa had with Fox in "Her Brother's Keeper".
What are the ages of the original members of the Pack (as in Fox, Wolf, Dingo, Hyena and Jackal)? I know Dingo is in his mid-thirties, but what of the others?
Thank you for your time.
Fox was born in 1966. I think Jackal & Hyena are younger. Dingo and Wolf are older.
Ladies & Gentlemen, I invite you all to enter our latest ASK GREG contest:
Why is that Villainess Smiling?
At the end of "Her Brother's Keeper", Elisa has a gun on Hyena, forcing the Packmember to surrender. Cut to a close-up of Hyena... who SMILES!!
In one hundred words or less, tell me why she's smiling.
--All answers must begin with the following heading:
"THE HYENA CONTEST"
--ANSWERS MUST BE THOROUGHLY PROOFREAD! Spelling and punctuation count! Remember I'm a former and current teacher.
--Answers that run longer than 100 words will be disqualified.
--Answers without the correct heading will be disqualified.
--Answers must be posted to ASK GREG by the end of April. Answers posted in May will be disqualified.
Once I've read all the April answers (hopefully in May) I will choose a winner based entirely on my own subjective preferences. That winner will receive a prize of zero actual value but hopefully of some real fan interest.
I think Michael Reaves came up with this title. I wanted to shorten it to "Brother's Keeper" so that it would implicitly include the Trio, Goliath and his late rookery-brothers, Jackal & Hyena. But Michael talked me out of it. He was right.
This was the second out of three episodes where we attempted to do Kenner a solid by inserting a toy into the series. The Helicopter was a much more awkward fit than Brooklyn's motorcycle had been. But we all agreed to make it work. Originally, Lex was going to repair Derek's police chopper, but someone suggested using the Pack 'copter instead. So we tried to make it all play as organic as possible. Lex and the Simulator, to set up his ability to pilot the thing. Broadway bringing up the obvious question as to why winged gargs would need a chopper, so that the audience didn't think we were ignoring those points. Etc. And in the end, it still plays artificial. But fortunately it's in an episode that is othewise filled with tremendous emotional honesty. So maybe it all balances out.
Of course, the irony was that Kenner never made a gargoyle helicopter. Without telling us, they switched to a sky sled sorta thing, because they couldn't figure out how to do a helicopter that successfully interacted with the garg-toys' wings. No good deed goes unpunished.
Broadway: "If cops were meant to fly they'd have wings." I love that line.
Derek - This was part of our plan to turn Derek into Catscan. Of course, the Catscan name was eventually dropped for Talon. The original plan for Catscan had him being a scientist that worked for and was duped by Xanatos. Picture us trying to combine Derek and Anton. (I know it's a mind-bender. It was more like Derek's personality and Anton's expertise.) But the Garg Universe told me otherwise once we created Derek for "Deadly Force". He'd be the cursed one. And this was just step one. Step only, if we never got a second season. So we left it open ended. And I think it's a pretty stunning bittersweat ending. The snow starts to fall (all very symbolic) and we don't know if Derek will listen to Elisa's tape of Fox or not. And we leave Elisa, standing, wondering, thinking, as the snow falls. It's not your typical Saturday morning cartoon conclusion -- not even for a drama. What did you all think at the end of that after your first viewing?
The snow became a very important visual metaphor for me. I exchanged a few faxes with Japan to make sure (that contrary to the script) there was NO SNOW on the ground at Xanadu, no snow at all, until it starts falling during Elisa's last conversation with Derek.
Sure, Jackal and Hyena were at large, but we establish here that Wolf and Fox are in prison. Anyone looking back at "Thrill" would know that this makes sense. Lex and Goliath take Dingo, J & H out on the roof. No human witnesses to their evil. And they didn't do anything against anyone but the gargs. But Wolf and Fox were photographed taking human (well, fashion model) hostages. So they go to prison. Dingo goes to Europe. J&H are still around to do mischief. But meanwhile, most normal humans still regard them as celebrities, until Hyena pulls a knife. (We had planned once-upon-a-time to make knives a bigger element/part of their arsenal. But it was a bit problematic S&P-wise, and it became moot after "Upgrade".)
Broadway, ever Elisa's biggest fan, thinks Derek should just trust her.
Brooklyn, still scarred from trusting Demona, points out that trust doesn't mean much without honesty.
Lex, still pissed at the Pack, just wants to catch them.
And it's nice to see Morgan and Matt again. If you like guys in towels.
Xanatos, as usual, is so cool.
"Never a gargoyle around when you need one."
"Detective. Always a pleasure."
"My life is anything but dull."
And that's just his dialogue. His plan is audacious. He has Owen call the Police, counts on Elisa and the gargs to rescue him from Jackal & Hyena. (We loved playing that irony.) And instructs Fox to tell Elisa everything. He's so confident, he even has no qualms about leaving Elisa and Derek alone to talk at the end.
And you gotta love a guy named Xanatos naming his retreat Xanadu.
I love the Hannibal Lechter inspired scene between Elisa & Fox. This of course was the moment when we all figured out what the garg universe already knew: "My god, Fox is in love with Xanatos." I hadn't known that back when Fox was created in the development days of yore. Hadn't known it when we did "Thrill". Hadn't known it until we were way into script on this. But there it was. And nothing would ever be the same. (Did you guys realize it there? And how far did you think we'd take it?)
Suddenly, the events of "Leader of the Pack", "Eye of the Beholder" and "Vows" seemed to spread out before me. And Alexander became a glimmer in my eye (if not Xanatos').
Elisa acts true to form here. What we'd spell out later in "Revelations" is already implied here. Elisa is extremely (if subconsciously) reluctant to share her gargoyles secret with anyone. Three times Goliath tells her to share her secret with her brother. Three times she finds an excuse not to. (Frank Paur found this repetitive. He tried to take one of the scenes and make it play more subjective. Like Elisa imagining a conversation with Goliath, while the actual Goliath was sleeping in stone. It was a sweet idea, but it didn't make any logical sense in terms of story flow and forced us to make storyboard changes and call retakes in order to get the version we've all seen.)
We loved playing irony. Elisa and Peter are right about Xanatos, but dead wrong about the way they're trying to control Derek's life. Diane and Derek are absolutely right about Derek needing to control his own destiny, but make the tragic choice of trusting that destiny to Xanatos. Those two scenes are terrific. (Helped immensely by vocal performances. And I also love Nichelle Nichols as the diamond exchange saleslady.)
Derek thinks Elisa thinks Xanatos is the "Prince of Darkness". "He practically is!" she responds. <SIGH> Tricksters are always being confused with Satan.
But that was more irony. It's not the demonic-looking gargoyles who are being compared to Satan. It's the handsome, rich Bruce Wayne-esque playboy. I guess the goatee helps.
My daughter's reactions:
As you may have gathered, it's become fascinating to me to see how Erin is reacting differently seeing all these episodes for the second time at age 5 1/2.
She was stunned at the end of Act One and following when Derek told Elisa that he was accepting Xanatos' offer. "That's not supposed to happen," she kept saying.
And all the trio stuff made her laugh. She especially liked Goliath's admonitions to the Trio: "Try to get along."
Brooklyn sure knows his pop-culture: Star Wars and Star Trek references within a few minutes of each other.
It was important to us to show that even guys as close as the Trio could get tired of each other. Sure they're all Rookery brothers and best friends. But if they had stayed at Wyvern (i.e. if there had been no massacre) they wouldn't have had to spend ALL their time together. At the very least, females would have provided a distraction. But here in the 20th century they're all they've got. So of course, there'd be good days and bad days. Like any siblings.
And of course, the sibling theme was central to the episode, including the Jackal & Hyena's relationship. The irony there being that they were getting along better than the Trio or the Mazas.
I loved Goliath's outrage at the lack of appreciation that the Mazas and Trio have for their siblings. It's very moving to me. (And helps us set up Coldstone for next episode.)
When Lex comments that if Broadway had his way, the garg-copter would be covered with food, I knew that we were pushing Broadway's eating habits into the dull one-joke tired category. I hate that line. And we tried to back off the eating jokes after that.
Anyone notice our tribute to Launchpad McQuack when Lex says "Any landing you can walk away from..."
Some gorgeous animation in this one. I loved what they did with the lighting when Lex gets Jackal and Hyena in the chopper's spot.
--The trio toss Jackal & Hyena out of their chopper. It's o.k. They're wearing parachutes. But did the Trio know that? Maybe with Jackal, since Hyena's chute had already opened. But was Hyena tossed to her presumptive death.
Yes. After all they're still thinking (first season) like tenth century warriors, not like twentieth century super-heros.
--One of the advantages to Syndication over Network is a more liberal S&P. We could show Broadway's fist heading into camera. We couldn't actually show him punching Jackal in the head, but we could show Jackal's POV of that fist heading toward him. A couple frames of black, and then we cut wide to Jackal on the ground, and we know what happened. But on Network, in "The Journey" or, say, "Max Steel", we are NEVER allowed to even imply a head blow. And we can't show a fist or gun or whatever pointed directly at camera (i.e. at the audience). Too disturbing, I'm told.
And finally, at the end, when Elisa arrests Hyena, I've got to ask, what do you think Hyena's smiling about?
Maybe that's the next contest...
1.Would any members of the Pack still be alive in 2158?
1.What is the name of the 6th Pack member?
6th? Uh, let's see...
Oh, another one of the "big shake-ups" that I know took me aback - the Pack getting upgraded. I recall that, even aware of what that lot were like, I was still a bit startled by Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf's transformations, a response of "I can't believe you three did that to yourselves!" (Indeed, from that episode onwards, I started to like Dingo, for refusing to sacrifice his humanity similarly and for being horrified at their changes - it helped prepare me for his further development in "Walkabout", in fact).
Who says I don't think ahead?
(Well, no one actually, but it helps to pretend I'm persecuted.)
Greg, can we make guesses as to the identity of the fifth member of the Ultra-Pack, or will those fall under the category of ideas?
(Prediction: We can guess as much as we want to, but the answer, like Lex's mate is and what Titania whispered to Fox,will remain mysteries forever)
On a scale, where the likelihood of my revealing what Titania said is a ten and revealing BROOKLYN'S MATE is a one (since I alreadly revealed that), I'd put Lex's mate at about a six and the fifth Pack Member as a four.
It's really pointless to guess, however. The character is brand new. There are no clues currently built into the cannon. Thus, as you surmised, almost every guess would play like an idea and Gore would have to boot them.
Hi, Mr Weisman,
I've got some questions concerning The Pack:
1.)To which species will the fifth member of Ultra-Pack belong, and will this member be male or female? And is the fifth member someone be have already seen in the show?
2.)Who will be the leader of Ultra-Pack and who will sponsor them?
3.)Will they get another version of their traditional upgrades, or another kind of upgrade? (with traditional upgrade I mean if e.g. Wolf would get another genetical enhancement, and with another kind I mean things like e.g. Wolf getting something like a battle armor or cybernetics...I hope this example won't be misinterpreted as an idea masquerading as a question...).
1. Human. Probably male. No.
2. I just answered these questions. Which means they were present in the queue when you posted your questions. Come on gang, please at least read the queue. (All right, all right, Coyote.)
3. There will be upgrades. I'm not saying anything else.
Some ultra-Pack questions...
1. Who would guide and desire its formation? Earlier it was Xanatos who had done it, but his alliance with the Gargoyles doesn't seem to make it very possible he would create the Ultra-Pack...
2. Who would *lead* the Ultra-Pack? The new character you had mentioned?
3. Would the new Ultra-Pack member also have the name of a ferocious canidae (hope I spelled it correctly) animal?
4. Would the new character be male or female?
1. Coyote 6.0.
2. Coyote 7.0.
3. Coyote 8.0. No wait. I just got on a roll there. The answer is "Yes." But I won't vouch for your spelling.
4. Leaning toward male, but won't be held to that.
I'm amazed I revealed that.