A Station Eight Fan Web Site
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Vinnie takes delivery of his pie-throwing bazooka, "Mr. Carter", from weapons manufacturer Mr. Acme. Wolf and his ancestor, the ghost Hakon, team up to attack Goliath and Hudson.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Vinnie's quest begins.
I have really been enjoying the comic and am very impressed with how you have stuck with the Gargoyles and also the fans all this time. I recently got a dvr and have been enjoying episodes I never saw from the latter part of season 2 (what isn't out on DVD) on toon Disney. You probably know this by now but they do air Lethal Force these days. I have also caught a couple episodes of The Goliath Chronicles (The Journey, Runaways, and the last episode), but not enough to form a real opinion on the overall quality. It seems to me though that animation as a medium gets a lot more viewers than comics attracts readers so I guess it feels sort of odd to discount those episodes when more people will watch those than read the comics I am guessing. I mean I am not saying you have to pick up where they left off, but it is sort of like in other comics continuity, you can ignore events without contradicting them. They are your creation and I trust your judgement, it just goes against my geeky continuity obsessed mind. It also makes me wonder what people who actually worked on that season think of the negativity surrounding their work. Maybe it was just a pay check to them, but maybe they actually did try to do right by what you had set up. They were also probably under more pressure with BS+P that year which may have affected what they could do. It also seems like it puts you at risk of burning certain bridges, but I do not know about animation so maybe it is a big enough world where it doesn't matter too much to express opinions like that. Alright questions.
1) I couldn't find it anywhere in the archive and maybe its none of my business but since you clearly love the universe you created so much, why did you leave Disney in the 1st place assuming you could have stayed and run season 3 the way you had wanted?
Well I guess thats all I have for questions. No further questions. Other things....you mentioned #6 is a stand alone issue, which sounds like a great idea to me. Comics is different medium than animation/television. Sometimes storytelling has to be compressed a bit. If each 3 issues=1 episode that is like $10 bucks an episode (that is like 3-4 episodes for the price of the entire Sedason 2 Vol.1 DVD, not that its not worth it ). There are a lot of great comics that tell complete stories in one issue. Especially with a bi-monthly schedule it is nice when each issue packs a lot of story (not at the sacrifice of character or pace or anything). I also sort of dislike the decision to use to 1st 2 issues to retell a story that has already been in the series. I understand why it was probably a necessary evil for bringing back a 10 year old world, but it just feels like it had the potential to kill the excitment and momentum of a new series for the loyal fans who will be the primary audience of the series most likely. And I thought if you were doing it anyway it would have been nice to have Vinnie decide not to go to Japan in the end since there is all this talk of him being your surrogate and now you are back with the characters. Seems like a missed opportunity for a nice little wink towards the die hard fans. Maybe you have plans for him in Japan? I am looking forward to having a consistent artist in the upcoming issues. Fill-ins really do have a negative effect on a series in my mind, but weighed against huge delays I suppose they are a better option in this case. Overall I am very excited to have new Gargoyles stories around and I hope the run ends up being very successful because I feel like once you guys get into the groove, it could end up being pretty fantastic and I would hate to see it get cancelled before you even really get into it. And at the end of an arc if time is an issue it seems like it would be pretty easy to skip ahead a few years to catch us up to the present. I personally do not mind it being set in the 90's and I think just not mentioning the year works just fine for casual readers and the loyal fanbase. I guess skipping ahead might ruin your whole timeline you have mapped out as well. I sort of wish a bigger publisher had teamed up with Disney because the issues seem to get shoved in the independent and or kids sections in some shops, when they would probably do much better just mixed in on the shelf with all the other titles.
How about a Northwest Gathering. Portland, Seattle? Maybe even somewhere in Montana.
I think your post about "second base" was probably one of the most entertaining read on this whole page. If you want an example of tv broaching the topic the OC comes to mind 1st when Seth has a hilariously awkward conversation with his father about "preheating the oven".
And you are one episode away from finishing your ramblings on your seasons of the series. Let's get that done. I really enjoy the commentary like feel to those. It might even be interesting to do The Goliath Chronicles to hear what you had to say about those, or at least The Journey.
Well thanks a lot for sticking with these characters and indulging the fans. I was planning just write something as a letter to the comic but my thoughts kind of spilled over into all things Gargoyle. Sorry to go on so long. Hope I didn't come off really critical, the show has been one of my favorites since I was a kid and one of the few shows from then that still holds up to regular viewings. Thanks for your time.
The letters page is called written in stone right? I do not have an issue with me, but if its not it should be. How is that for a ramble...
Friends of mine worked on Goliath Chronicles. Including Cary Bates, one of my best friends. I know -- and have ALWAYS said -- that they were working very hard under nearly impossible constraints. They did not have the time to LEARN the show; they just had to hit the ground running -- and running very fast. In addition, TPTB changed nearly the ENTIRE crew. So there was nobody around -- or nearly nobody -- in any kind of position of authority to provide any continuity (to the production, let alone to the storyline). I have great sympathy for the people involved... but it just doesn't change how personally painful it was for me to watch those episodes. You're right of course, that the worst rated episode of Goliath Chronicles has been seen by WAY, WAY, WAY more people than have read all the issues of the comic book put together. But at the end of the day, I'm the goofball who has to write the darn thing. And it just would have been too painful to have to include Goliath Chronicles in the continuity. And simply ignoring it wouldn't work, as I think is obvious from issues 3 & 4. Think about it. No clones. No THAILOG?!! Sorry, couldn't do it.
1. This has been answered elsewhere in greater detail, but suffice it to say, I was being pushed out the door and back then -- as much as I appreciated what a unique and great thing Gargoyles was -- I didn't appreciate it enough, and allowed myself to be pushed. I could see the writing on the wall that resources would have been reduced on the show, and didn't want to preside over its demise. I myself was offered a demotion from Supervising Producer to Story Editor. And even before I said yes or no, my replacement was hired. Having said all that, I should have fought to stay. Really. It is the single biggest professional regret of my career. But BIG PICTURE, I can't regret it, because a million things effect each other, and my son was born (specific egg/specific sperm) while I was at DreamWorks. So it's really not even a contest, from a LIFE standpoint.
As for Vinnie, don't overplay the surrogate thing. Vinnie has a life of his own and a destiny to fulfill and if I didn't send him to Japan it would screw up all sorts of future plans. I am also not going to continue to defend my reasons for starting off the comic as I did. I've stated my case. You buy it or you don't.
If you want a Gathering in any specific area, put together a group of fans and submit a bid. It's not a magic process, but it is a lot of hard work.
And the letters page is called "Etched in Stone".
You've mentioned before that Vinnie's departure for Japan and his parting words to Goliath in "The Journey" (back when it was a television episode) were in part an allegory for your leaving "Gargoyles" (and Disney). I noticed that his farewell to Goliath was also in #2 of the Gargoyles comic. Did it feel odd to you to write those words again, knowing that this time around, your situation was the opposite of Vinnie's (and of your situation when you were writing them the first time), that instead of leaving the gargoyles, you were returning to them?
Only if I made the effort to think about it, frankly. The truth is there are little inspirations to all sorts of things throughout Gargoyles. But once it becomes part of the canon, it is what it is. So long ago, I internalized Vinnie's departure as part of the tapestry. And the behind the scenes reason why I did it became less important than the effect it had on his character and the rest of the highly interconnected Gargoyles Universe.
My Thoughts On Issue 2 (Clan-Building Chapter Two: The Journey):
- First off, the cover looks great. I really like Elisa's dress as opposed to the one seen in "The Journey" TGC episode and Goliath's battle damage looks a bit more serious too. And speaking of Goliath, he looks pretty buff here, I mean, he's huge! Anyway, looks great.
- I love the extra tidbit of information on "Lennox Macduff" authoring "Gargoyles of Celtic Legend". Sounds like a book I'd love to read. I wonder is it a book about gargoyles or about real-life Gargoyles? Hard to tell. And we learn something new about Margot Yale, she is an advisor to the NYPD Gargoyle Task Force as well as being the assistant DA. it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Her relationship with Matt Bluestone and her connections to the gargoyles just became much more interesting.
- As I mentioned before, Goliath really takes a rough injury to his wing. I mean it looks really bad, so bad that I almost doubt him when he says it'll heal when he turns to stone. Obsidiana had a similar injury in "The Green" and it healed, of course her wing only looked broken, Goliath had big old holes in his wing as well as it looking broken. I suppose it is similar to the wound he took over London after being hit by a Nazi bullet, though it certainly looks worse here. I dunno, just some thoughts.
- The title page with the injured Goliath and Elisa is really nice. I have to say it seems to be pseudo-sexual in a way. I really like it, it is kinda beautiful. A nice touch is the Eyrie building's reflection in the puddle and the flesh wound on Goliath's cheek.
- The Alex/Bronx/Lex/Fox scene (lot of x's there) is nice. Bright and colorful, a contrast to the rest of the book. Sadly, Alex's teddy bear no longer has gargoyle wings, and Alex no longer seems to have red hair, but is blond now. Another interesting color situation is Bronx's tongue, which is now blue, as opposed to the red tongue seem in the tv episodes. I don't think it is good or bad, just different. I love Lex's face when he is talking to Fox (and Alex is grabbing his ear). It's one of those priceless faces, right there with Hudson's face when he looks at Goliath holding Elisa in "Awakening"
- I like how the artist was consistent enough in showing how Elisa lost one of her shoes in Issue 1 and pulls the other one off in this issue (because who would run around in just one shoe?). I think it is the tidbits of continuity and realism like that that have always been one of Gargoyles' strengths.
- The Library where Angela and Broadway are hanging out seems pretty dark to be reading in. Which leads me to my only complaint about the book. It seems to be very darkly colored. Almost too dark to clearly see what is going on sometimes. I understand this is happening at night and in dark places, and I realize it is oftentimes a dark series, but still, there are times when I have to put certain pages under a bright light to see whats going on. Done with the criticism.
- Back to Broadway and Angela. Yes, we all know they are gonna get together and have three kids and stuff, but I really love watching them develop over time. Angela's lips are kinda a dark purple, which is a lot like Bronx's colored tongue. Just another observation. It actually makes some anatomical sense, so it will certainly grow on me. New now though. Poor Brooklyn, I guess he'll find someone soon enough though, but still, he doesn't know what his future holds, so for now, poor Brook.
- Probably the best single frame in the book (and kudos to Greg W, the artists, everyone) is the frame where Elisa says to Goliath, "I know, I know. Sometimes it's easier if I just stay behind." Goliath's little grin is priceless, I love it. The line itself is perfect, I mean Goliath has to carry her around everywhere, he loves her, but geez, that has to be frustrating for both of them at times.
- The old stomping grounds. It certainly has seen better days, as Elisa point out. My hope is that it is rebuilt and has a future in the series.
- I like seeing Elisa on Goliath's back with her little bare feet sticking forward. It's cute.
- I've always liked the fight in the Clocktower. It's like once Elisa and Goliath are on familiar turf, they have the advantage. I must wonder what is in store for Banquo and Fleance. Will Castaway fire them or just withhold their paychecks? Or maybe they'll quit.
- I think it is interesting that Castaway tells Vinnie to not use names, as Quarrymen must remain anonymous (one has to wonder his reasons for that!) and then he turns around and calls Vinnie by name. Kind of a hypocrite. Anyway, Vinnie vs. Castaway, what an unlikely duel that is. But it works. Castaway gets away in the end, so I'm sure we'll see him around. And Vinnie? I wonder if we'll see him again... probably, knowing this series. I wonder though, Goliath and Elisa seem pretty sure that Vinnie will encounter the Ishimura Clan, but unless he is going to Ishimura itself, I don't see why this is likely. Ishimura keeps the gargoyles a pretty tight secret, and Greg W has indicated that they are not gonna reveal themselves to the world for some time. So is Vinnie going to Ishimura? And who there hired him? Taro?
- One more thing: I find it hilarious to see Greg W talking about catching up in Ask Greg in the "Etched in Stone" back page. Now Greg's attempts to catch up are being published! Makes me laugh. We love ya, Greg. Kinda weird to see something we have talked about so much online in a hard copy in my hands. "It's weird... kinda fun... but weird..."
- So overall, I enjoyed it very much. The writing is great, of course. I'm still a fan of the art, though the darkness of this issue was a little annoying. All in all though, I love it and can't wait for Issue 3. So far in "Clan-Building" we've seen the formation of the Quarrymen "clan" and the reintroduction of the Manhattan Clan. How else will clans be built in the future...? I guess we'll see.
Castaway! A hypocrite?! Say it ain't so!! ;)
Look for Vinnie in up-coming issues (like say Garg #8 and G:BG #2.
I was wondering,theres alot of people and i mean alot of people that love this show, cant we do something to try to get it back into the making, a online petition maybe,we could send it to Disney im sure once they see how many people want the show back on the air they wouldnt pass up the rattings and money that it could bring in.
this is one of my fav. parts in all of the shows, In the episode Vendettas the guy that creams Goliath in the face with the banana cream pie, I notcied that afterwards when he is walking away he starts to hum the Gargoyles theme song, I was Wondering whos idea was it to put that in there?
Out of all the shows if I were to have a Top 10 list for the funniest parts that would have to be in my Top 5. its good to see that a somewhat of a dark show has its funny, caring parts in it.
Gargoyles Forever !
The two biggest things that you can do to revive the show are (a) attend the Gathering and (b) buy the DVD when it comes out later this year. Show Disney that you're willing to spend money to get more Gargoyles, and they'll take notice.
As for Vinnie's humming, that was my idea. Glad you liked it.
How old is Vinnie?
At the end of "The Edge" how does Vinnie feel about the press releases saying the gargoyles were only robots?
Assuming he saw it, I'm sure he doesn't buy it.
More Vinnie questions..
1. Why did Vinnie call his gun Mr. Carter? Is that an injoke from the voice session?
2. How tall is he?
3. Is Vinnie living on his own in NY? Or is he still livign with his mum and dad?
4. Where was Vinnie when the Mirror took place? ~_^
1. There's a story behind that, that I don't want to reveal yet. But the reason WE chose the name Carter is because when he said it with his accent, it would sound like Kotter.
2. I don't know. 5'10" ish maybe.
3. He's living in Japan, right now.
4. Haven't thought about it.
A few Questions All about VInnie! ^_^
1. Jeff Bennett did Vinnie's voice, however were there any times when he did not do the character's voice? (For example, in "Awakenings" The very first time we see Vinnie is on his motorcycle. That yell that Vinnie does when he sees Lexington, is that Jeff's voice yelling or someone else?)
2. If the above is yes, who did Vinnie's voice as well as Jeff?
3. In the series, is Vinnie single, or is there a 'special someone' in his life?
4. How long did he work at each of his respective jobs for?
Thankyou so much Greg! ^_^
1. I don't recall. It wouldn't surprise me if it was Jeff.
2. No one did "Vinnie's voice" except Jeff. But if you're talking about a grunt here and there, it's possible someone else might have done the character before we knew the character was Vinnnie. In which case, I definitely don't recall. But odds are Jeff was still doing those grunts.
3. He's available. (Didn't I just answer this?)
4. Well... I don't have my timeline here to give you the exact length of his tenure at Gen-U-Tech, but it was clearly short. I haven't given any thought as to how long he worked at Cyberbiotics before being fired.