A Station Eight Fan Web Site
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=21805 was in reference to http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=21568
You've indicated that Nimue was the third daughter of Igraine and Gorlois, exchanged with the changeling Morgana. Does that make her magic (or that of stolen children in general, if you prefer) mortal sorcery by definition? Except mortal sorcery isn't allowed on Avalon, where stolen human children would logically be raised. Did she not know any magic before Merlin taught her (as in the legend) despite her upbringing by the Third Race, or is she (or stolen children in general, if you prefer) able to manipulate the energies of Avalon like the Magus learned to, thus technically staying within the prohibition?
Mostly, I'm going to answer: NO SPOILERS. But I will say that not every option you cited above is mutually exclusive with every other option.
If, as Goliath says, the Vikings called the Oberati "Dark Elves", then what about the Light Elves that are also present in Viking mythology? Were they more myth than fact, were they angels (like the ones in Jacob's vision in the issue "The Rock"), or are they also members of the Third Race but Goliath only chose to mention the Dark Elves for some reason? In Norse myth, Light Elves were like what we would think of as Tolkien Elves and Dark Elves were like Tolkien Dwarves.
Though I'm not sure I agree with your associating Dark Elves with Dwarves. I'd have to do some research, but I recall both Dark Elves and Dwarves in Norse mythology as two different species.
Hi again. As long as rules require to group questions by different topics, I've written that as separate questions.
1. If Puck is Oberon's servant, why can he be summoned by Titania's mirror? Not some Oberon's possessions, but Titania's.
2. Does the spell, that Demona used to summon Puck, have any translation? Was it in Latin? I failed to find it on Wiki.
3. Why didn't Oberon just use the mirror as Demona did in order to summon Puck? Was he just in a mood for stroll?
4. In the way I see it, there's kind of tension between Puck and the Weird Sisters, as they say they can hunt him down for Oberon. I mean -Hunt-. Not to bring him, not to call him, not to remind to him. Hunt him down. Why? If this IS a spoiler, please, just forget you've read 2d question. If I just dramatize, feel free to tell it in any form you like.
5. Would - if heard - the ringing of the iron bell be at least painful to ANY one of Oberon's children in their true form? If not to all, then to who will it be?
1. If the spell is powerful enough, he can be summoned by any magic mirror.
2. It's Latin and can be found here: http://gargwiki.net/Summoning_Spell
I don't have the translation here at my Nickelodeon office. But you can probably get it from one of the fans by asking in the S8 Comment Room.
3. Yes. He pretty much says that. (Are you asking these questions from memory without looking back at the episodes? Cuz, if so, you're really waiting a LONG time to get answers you could've gotten yourself.)
4. It's a spoiler.
5. To all.
Are fairy-human shape shifts like Owen still bound by things like "Iron hurts you" and "No stealing magical items like the phoenix gate"?
Also just to say your shows inspired me to pursue a major/career in illustration and comics. I saw your shows and others like it and decided I wanted to find a way to contribute to them somehow. Hopefully one day I'll story-board something half as good as what you produce.
Owen can still be hurt by iron. Can't you?
Hey, long time Gargoyles fans and I got a bit of an odd question, and I don't think it's been asked before (at least from my searches).
Since in the gargoyles world fairies, god/goddess, and other mythical creatures exist a thought strikes me...do Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy actually exist in the Gargoyles world or at least some kind of version of them?
I know it's a bit of a silly question, but they do come from old stories just like all other mythological beings do. So, I couldn't help, but wonder.
As I've said before, there's a version of Santa Claus, for sure. In fact, there's an entire Santa Claus archive here at ASK GREG, so you didn't search very hard.
As for the others, no spoilers.
Hello Greg! I've read your statement that all members of the Third Race choose their own appearances and do not have "true forms." So in that case, I'm curious as to what they look like when they are born/come into being for the first time? Do they manifest as clouds of magic energy until they get an idea for their personal looks or what? Thanks in advance!
We know that Oberon sent the Fae out from Avalon in order to teach them some humility... Was there a singular inciting incidentthat caused this ruling, or was it just from the sheer number of small incidents of individual Fae?
Okay, first. I try not to use the word "Fae" to refer to all of Oberon's Children. That's a fan term, which I have - through not paying attention - occasionally found myself using by accident or out of laziness. But I'm trying to break myself of that habit.
Anyway, the answer is BOTH, i.e. there was a cumulative effect of multiple incidents that started Oberon thinking along certain lines. But there was also a singular incident that ultimately triggered his decision.
You've said that "sides were taken" during the war between Mab and Oberon.
I have a few questions regarding this conflict:
1) Were the "sides" you refered to composed of, lets say "morally ambiguous," Children like the Wierd Sisters, Banshee, Anansi, and Raven versus the relatively benign Children like Puck, Odin, Coyote, and Grandmother?
2) Does Oberon hold any animosity for those who sided against him, ranging from general distrust to outright distain? Does he forgive any of them completely?
3) Do any who took Mab's side still prefer to be refered to as "Mab's Children?"
4) Were any Children who fought against Oberon imprisioned along with Mab?
These are all spoiler questions. No comment.
I'm just filled with Gargoyles questions today, so heres another one.
You've said before that the New Olympians, being decendants of Children of Oberon/Human hybrids, don't use Children of Oberon (henceforth I'm going to refer to them as "Fae," although I know thats not technically accurate) magic in the traditional sense, but rather have internalized it into individual "powers."
1) My question is regarding Fox. The only time we've seen her use Fae magic was in the form of an energy blast. Was/is that her "power," or, given the proper training, would she have had powers (less than or equal to) a pure-bred Fae?
2) Also, Alexander seems to be able to access (full?) Fae abilities, including an extreamly long life-span. Is that because he is only a couple generations away from a pure-bred Fae, or because he is decended from such a powerfull Fae as Queen Titanya? (I want to ask if his decendants would be as powerfull as he is, or turn out like the New Olympians, but that would be a "spoiler request," so I won't. Unless you're feeling generous, then I am).
Okay, I didn't say the New Olympians were Children of Oberon/Human hybrids (though there were some of these). I said the New Olympians were Children of Oberon/Mortal hybrids.
And, of course, we NEVER use the term Fae in the series.
1. If we're talking theoretically, it's hard to say. If you're asking me specifically: No Spoilers.
But generally, the magic of the Children is more art than science, so it's difficult to quantify.
I have a rather...odd question.
I've read that fairies seem to have a problem with the words "thank you". 1. Do you think that's true in the Gargoyle's universe, in the case of say, Puck? If the Gargoyle's world considers him a fairy and not, like, a hobgoblin, maybe he's considered both, I don't know. 2. Would this be something they've grown out of, dismissing it as a human eccentricity or would it still irk them enough to go berserk on the poor well-meaning human? I've always made the half-joke that that's why Puck likes to mess with people. He gives them what they ask for but in a way that makes sure they never make the mistake of thanking him for it.
1. I've seen no indication of that.
A few questions about the Third Race.
1. Did they take anything with them to Avalon, or did they mostly just drop whatever it was that they were doing?
2. Did they take technology with them? Electronics. I mean, I'm sure magic compensates for most actual work they would have to do, but that doesn't mean that a few wouldn't like to take their Game Boy or something with them when they go home. No batteries on Avalon, I'm sure, but they might be able to make it work.
3. Would Oberon ALLOW them to bring technology onto Avalon, or does he consider it foreign magic?
4. I'm guessing that those who were married to humans at the time weren't allowed to bring their spouses along, were there a lot of broken homes made that year? You would think Oberon would make concessions about those things but then Avalon might see a spike in mortal inhabitants.
5. That brings me to another question; Would Oberon see a marriage between one of his race and a mortal as anything of significance? Anyways, I am glad you're still doing this, thank you! ^_^
1. Stuff isn't a big issue for a magical race.
2. Again, I'm not sure that's necessary. But if it pleases you...
3. He doesn't consider technology to be magic - much to his chagrin at times.
4. Oberon isn't big on concessions. But I'm not going to confirm or deny this one. Feels spoilery.
5. It would depend on a lot of factors.
1. Are members of the third race physically stronger than humans or gargoyles?
2. Can members of the third race increase their physical strength by casting spells?
1. Not necessarily. Depends on their form.
Can halflings with a Gargoyle and a Third Race parent have children with humans - or human/Third Race halflings with Gargoyles?
With or without the aid of magic or advanced science?
Did the Hunters ever interacted with any of the Children of Oberon? If so, what's their opnion about them?
SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
I would like to make a few questions about The Children of Oberon's weakness: Iron.
1) Why they are vunerable to it to begin with?
2) Is iron COMPLETLY inmune to their magic, or only highly resistent to it?
3) If so, how much iron composition other substances (like Steel) would need to be at least resistent to their magic?
4) If a Children of Oberon turn itself into a creature stronger than an average Gargoyle, would he/she be able to break a iron chain with it's bare hands?
5) If the Children of Oberon can't affect iron with magic, how did Oberon managed to do things like levitating Xanatos' laser-gun, shockwave several robotic gargoyles and melt a lamppost with his bare hands?
1. Maybe because most iron comes from outer space? (Honestly, I don't know. They just are. Like Mon-El's vulnerable to lead.)
2. Iron is immune, but if you can pick up a pair of wood tongs with your magic, you can use the tongs to pick up the iron rod. (Or something like that.)
3. Any iron in an alloy adds resistance, but if you're looking for a numerical value, you've asked the wrong guy.
5. Depends what they are made of. And also look at the answer to question two. A mighty wind is a mighty wind and can blow anything out of it's path. If Oberon can create a wind, it blows.
I noticed in another series of children's books called The Sisters Grimm that the author, Michael Buckley, also had Puck as a main character, only he has the form of a 12 year old and seems to have the mindset of one. He also has a pair of pink insect wings (despite still being a shape-shifter) that he isn't ashamed of at all.
He's written in a way that makes me believe he could have been your version of Puck at a younger age, though he is considered in that series to be the literal child of Oberon and Titania (Oberon's children, haha).
What's more is that King Oberon and Queen Titania live in Manhatten, New York City. I can't help but wonder if there's some of the Gargoyle show's influence at work here.
1. Were you aware of this series and its similarities?
2. Did you ever exchange words with Michael Buckley?
3. Do you think it's possible he watched your show, Gargoyles, or more likely that it was a coincidence?
3. I have no idea.
Your rendition of Puck really rekindled an interest of fairy lore in me, especially since I love tricksters and their amoral personalities that make them so complex. I love how you never know if they'll do something 'good' or 'bad' to someone else simply on a whim, and you portrayed that so well.
I read a previous answer of yours to someone else that said you didn't want to label Puck, Oberon, and Titania as 'faeries' because of the pejorative connotations that the word has. I realize and empathize with you about how fairies are often thought of as nothing more than pretty little girls with butterfly wings or something to that effect, who wave magic wands to grant wishes and always do good. Makes me sick.
1. Is that why you didn't have Puck, Oberon and Titania portrayed with fairy wings despite their status in their original play?
2. If so, why bother to have Puck fly around at all, let alone with fairy dust trailing behind him?
There's a show I recently learned of called Durarara!! in which a Dullahan (technically a sort of fairy) comes to Tokyo to find her missing head, taking the form of a black-wearing motorcyclist and transferring her headless horse's spirit into a pitch black motobike. To hide the fact she has no head, she wears a full helmet and tries to blend in with the city, acting as a transporter and courier for gangs and info brokers, forcing fans to reconsider their initial mental image of a typical fairy.
I think if you had recognized that Puck and the others were Fae, it just might have saved the Fae's tainted, modern day reputation, considering how well-known and admired the Gargoyles show is. However, I understand respect the choices you made, and it was pretty much obvious who they were in the long run.
1. "Despite"? Most of the versions I've seen are wingless.
2. Uh... it looked cool?
I don't recall saying no to the words "faery", "fairy" or "fae" because of perjorative connotations. I think the point I was making is that Oberon and Titania were "larger" than that. The Children of Oberon include those creatures traditionally associated with the "fae" but also various pantheons, etc.
1. If a Child of Oberon were to be imprisoned in a cell, box, room, or cage of iron, what effect might it have on them (if they can even be contained in one)?
2. Would that depend on the length of time they were imprisoned in such a cell?
3. Could they die from it, or only be weakened by it?
4.Does it physically pain them?
1. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
2. See above.
3. See above.
4. See above.
Hi first time questioner, long time fan so here we gp
1)Does Titania still have feelings for Renard?
2)When Oberon sent all of the third race into the human world to learn humailty, what he was he doing for that time. Was he in the human world aswell?
3)Oberon said that they golaith could have killed him with the iron bell. If he had died what would have become of his children?(so to speak)
1. Feelings, yes. Romantic feelings - not much.
3. They'd probably become Titania's Children for the short term. Beyond that, I'm not to big on hypotheticals.
Can Oberon's children eat food containing iron, such as meat or spinach?
Let's not get carried away.
What I don't get is that if Oberan commanded them (his children) toï»¿ not interfere in human affairs why are so many of them interested in carving out their own little dominion across Earth? That just never really clicked in my head...
The "don't interfere" doctrine came LONG after they carved out their dominions, as you put it. It's relatively recent. (Just over a thousand years ago.)
I've got a Third Race question I've been mulling over. Now obviously a lot of the Children are drawn from the gods and supernatural beings of various world mythologies. But since you established that many of them have adapted mortal identities over the centuries, particularly during the 1001 year exile from Avalon, did any of them take mortal identities we might recognise from conventional history books?
Any of them? Sure.
I don't quite understand the Gathering; was it a family reunion meant to last a few centuries before letting all the Children go back to the real world, a chance forï»¿ everyone to worship their Lord, or did everyone have to go back to Avalon and stay forever?
Initially, it was a return for a reassessment. The result of that is yet to come.
I have a question for you about the half-mortal, half-Third Race hybrids. I know that the Children of Oberon cannot use their magic directly on iron. But can half-mortal hybrids use Third Race magic to directly affect iron?
No. Unless they're using mortal magic.
You say that Titania as Anastasia, like Puck as Owen, is completely human. Does that mean Fox being half Fae was planned choice? Does conceiving a half Fae child requiring choosing to only appear human rather than be human for a change?
Fair question. It's worth discussing. But I don't have a hard, fast answer now.
I just re-read The Moorchild by Eloise McGraw. It's a book I mentioned in a much earlier question to you, one about a changeling girl who is half human and half fae, and the weirdness and difficulty she has fitting in with either because she is different from both species. (It's even set in medieval Scotland.) It prompted me to ask you how different or similar, emotionally and psychologically, the Third Race are to humans, because the depiction in this book is of quite inhuman fae who really can't relate to humans. You have consistently answered that the Third Race are quite similar to humans, emotionally and psychologically -- that the main difference is that of great power without great responsibility, of never growing old or having to work, and of being able to look however they want on a whim. You've even said that a human could imagine what it is like to be such a being by imagining what life for one of us would be like with those benefits.
Reading The Moorchild again got me to wondering about what it is like growing up as a hybrid (in a family of non-hybrids), or as a non-hybrid changeling raised by another species, in the Gargoyles universe. The personality differences don't seem nearly as pronounced between humans and Third Race as they are between humans and fae in The Moorchild, so it seems like fewer problems should arise, although physically there seems to be quite a lot of difference between mortals and the Children even when they look human. Clearly a half-mortal child like Fox can grow up without ever figuring it out, or learning magic. But did she ever feel different from the mortal children around her? Did other humans notice anything different about her? Or was there nothing really out of the ordinary, no noticeable outward signs of her magical heritage?
And what about Morgan le Fay, who according to what you have revealed is a purely Third Race changeling. Was it strange for her to grow up among humans? I assume she looked human, but did she feel human, or did she feel different from those around her? Did she seem unusual to her human parents and siblings, or did they never really notice anything out of the ordinary, personality-wise or physically? Did she just seem like a regular human being to them?
As for Nimue, well, she can't have helped but notice she was different, not having the same nearly-effortless magical abilities and shapechanging that the Third Race have. That and not being made of pure magic, along with whatever that entails.
I imagine a slightly different dynamic for the Avalon Clan, since there was no human society around them and they actually outnumbered their foster parents 11-to-1, but I'm sure that was at least somewhat weird, especially for the humans.
I guess if the question is: "Did they feel different?" then the answer is a resounding "YES!". Because, I'm pretty sure I'm not a magical hybrid and I felt different. Doesn't everyone?
alright greg! we know oberon had two halfling sons, but he also had a son and a daughter with titania. who are they?
are they at the gathering?
can they leave like there parents can?
and what magic are they capable of together and/or separate?
please accept this fans should really know.
I don't accept that I have ANY obligation to reveal my future plans. I only EVER do it on a whim, and the last sentence of your post doesn't exactly inspire whimsy. More like... teeth-grinding.
Thanks for clarifying the feudal society of the Third Race.
Given this feudal arrangement, where does that put the Weird sisters? They are the Norns of the Norse, but also the Greek and Roman Fates, Furies, and Graces. Does that mean they're part of the Aesir? Or part of the Greek gods?
They're part of nearly every pantheon, in a sense. But really they're not part of any. They report directly to Oberon.
I have a question about Anubis.
Anubis is a death god, is strongly connected to death, and apparently has power over death (whether or not he chooses to use that power). But is he able to use magic that is not connected to death? Is he limited to only using and reversing the effects of "death magic," or can he mostly do anything he wants, magically speaking?
He's still one of the Children. Power isn't infinite, as we've seen. But he has options.
From watching The Gathering and other episodes with the Children of Oberon in it, and from your reveals on s8, it appears to me that the Third Race have a feudal-like system, with Oberon as the high king (more or less), and others as his subjects or vassals. I think you have said that there are various "subsets," such as the Aesir and the Egyptian gods.
Do these "subsets" or "pantheons" have any political or social reality in Third Race society? What I mean is, are they just convenient catagories for mortals to refer to this or that Child of Oberon as belonging to a mythological category, or are they actual groups who associate(d) with one another as such, who have something political, social, or cultural in common with one another?
Yes, it's a FEUDAL system. Odin reports to Oberon, but the Aesir report to Odin. And etc.
1. Do the Third Race as a whole view Oberon as their most powerful member, or do they follow him for other reasons (royal bloodline, his overthrowing of Mab, etc.) Are there any who might stand a chance of overthrowing him, or would even want to?
2. Is Oberon regarded as a tyrant by his subjects? Obviously neither Puck nor Banshee wanted to go to the Gathering, but what is more general opinion of Oberon's rule?
3. Several of the Third Race are venerated as gods by mortals (such as Anubis and Odin), while Oberon himself, so far as I'm aware, has never been the object of a major religion. Is he at all irritaded by this, or would he even care?
1. Probably all of the above.
2. Nah, I think generally most are loyal to him and believe he's ruled relatively wisely. Although, "relatively" may be the key word, as their previous ruler was Mab.
I've looked all over the archives and I did not find an answer to this. Once, somebody asked you why Anansi chose to be so big and ungainly, presumably since this form gave him trouble when fighting the gargoyles in "Mark of the Panther." You answered: << He ate a lot and gloried in it, I guess. And changing may not be as easy as you make it sound.>> Reading that, I realized that it has never been established explicitly whether shapeshifting is something that all of the Third Race can do. Anansi himself does shapeshift later, but only after getting stabbed. If it was very easy for him to change into a tiny form and run away, I would expect him to do that once pleading and offering bribes didn't work, instead of sitting there and getting stabbed.
Here's the original question: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=3095
So are all of the Third Race able to shapeshift, or just some or most of them?
Are all of them able to assume mortal forms (like Owen), or can just some or most of them do this?
And are they all equally good/skilled/versatile at shapeshifting?
1. I don't want to make blanket statements, but most can.
The question in the last queue about whether Fox and David can vote after getting out of prison, and my own thoughts about the Third Race and Oberon's Law against interfering with mortals, has led me to this question: What does the Law of Oberon prevent and what does it allow, in terms of Oberon's Children participating in human politics? Do Anastasia Renard and Owen Burnett have U.S. citizenship, or if not could they get it if they wanted it? Can they vote? Can they get any more politically active than voting? (Leaving aside whether they actually want to do any of these things.)
My I-won't-be-held-to-this answer for the moment is that as long as they are living AS humans, they can PARTICIPATE in human affairs. They can eat lunch with other humans. They can see movies made by humans. They can conduct business with humans, and so, it follows, they can vote as humans vote... as long as they're not using magic to alter things.
I still don't have time to write out my thoughts about Bad Guys, let alone watch and read the Gargoyles medieval flashbacks marathon like I planned. They'll probably have to wait until graduation and winter break. But I still have so many other questions I want to ask you about Gargoyles!
I wonder often about the Third Race in the Gargoyles universe. You have revealed a lot of information about the gargoyles, since obviously they are the focus of the whole series, and less about the Third Race. I wonder how similar to or different from mortals they are, psychologically. The Third Race include the gods of various polytheistic religions, and at least in Greek, Norse, and Egyptian myths, gods are depicted as having pretty human psychology, and the same emotions as human beings. They are also depicted as having cultures very similar to their worshippers. Of course, myths were created by mortals and "few things are accurate." The Third Race also includes beings like the Fair Folk and/or the Fae. In fiction that I have read about Faerie folk, they aren't often depicted as psychologically similar to human beings. For example, in the book "The Moorchild", the Faeries (called Moorfolk) seem quite different from human beings. They raise their children communally, and also seem to entirely lack the emotions of love and hate. They don't even seem to form any emotional ties to one another, perhaps not even what humans would necessarily call friendship. The book convincingly and successfully depicts beings that are, in some ways, very alien from human beings. Other depictions (like in the table-top role-playing game Exalted) make the Fair Folk even more alien.
In the Gargoyles show and comics, gargoyles clearly have a similar psychology to humans: although they have some differences which make them more than just humans with wings, they're pretty similar to us in most ways. They obviously feel love and hate, for example, and although their family relations are structured differently, it seems pretty clear that they love and care about their children, parents, and siblings. I think in a past response you said that none of the races in the Gargoyles Universe are designed to be all that alien, not even the actual aliens, and that it should be possible to relate to all of them with some effort. So far, as individuals, the depictions of the Third Race make them seem more like the gods of myth, not necessarily following human moral ideas and sometimes being whimsical, but having a mostly human-like psychology. But except for the glimpses of the relationship between Titania and Oberon, and Titania's relationship to her human family (when however she was mostly in a human body, presumably full of human hormones and neurotransmitters) there wasn't a lot of interaction between the Third Race in the show, and obviously their society wasn't the focus.
So the main questions in my mind about this subject are these:
1. Do the Children of Oberon have the same emotional range as human beings, including emotions such as love, hate, shame, compassion, gratitude, jealousy, indignation, etc.?
2. How much detail of their long lives do they remember? Do they generally have better memory than humans, or is their memory only about as good as a human's? Does someone as old as Oberon have only a fuzzy recollection of things that happened 3000 or so years ago, or does he remember 3000 years ago (such as the events of Midsummer Night's Dream) as clearly as he remembers 30 years ago? Humans (and presumably gargoyles) have limited neurons in the brain for forming memories and synapses, and synapses that are not used regularly are trimmed away to make "room" for more useful connections, leading to loss of memories and skills that are less frequently used. But since Children of Oberon are made of pure magic, I don't think they even have neurons.
3. In their long lives, do the Third Race tend to get bored any more or less often than mortals do, or about as often?
2. Better memories for quantity, not necessarily more accurate.
3. If you're talking about frequency, I guess it's about the same -- except that they don't have to WORK for a living, so they have less they NEED to do, which may lead to increased boredom.
I have another question about the New Olympians, halflings, and the Law of Oberon (related to what Random Fan asked about the Law). In the Gathering, Oberon showed that his law is applied and interpreted differently for different halflings. Fox is too human because she has grown up with a mortal life, so the Law applies to her as to a mortal. But Titania has permission to interfere in Alex's life, perhaps because he is newborn and has not yet grown up to be human, but has the potential to be or become something else.
How does Oberon interpret and enforce his law in relation to the New Olympians? Are (or were, before the Gathering) the Third Race permitted to interfere in the lives of New Olympian halflings, or does Oberon view them as mortal and therefore not open to (unsolicited) interference?
The New Olympians ARE mortal.
On the subject of halflings, I have been wondering for a long while how halflings that are part human and part animal (like the New Olympians) are born. My understanding from the archives is that a member of the Third Race can only breed with a mortal by assuming a truly mortal, flesh-and-blood body of the same species as the mortal they want to breed with. If this is correct, how does a mortal, with a Child of Oberon in a truly mortal body of the same species, end up with a child which does not look like the parents? For example, if a human and a Child of Oberon in a completely human body, like Anastasia, had children, how would the children look like anything except normal human beings? Or if a Child of Oberon took on a mortal horse form and mated with a mortal horse, wouldn't the offspring all look like normal horses? For example, how were the first centaurs, or the first minotaurs, born?
Fair questions... maybe they're second generation... since Fox clearly has magical power...
Or maybe you're putting to DEFINING a limit on the Children, given that their powers and abilities are all about loopholes half the time.
It seems the more I read the archives (now that I've discoverd them)the more questions I have. The one that plagues me now is about an answer you gave in response to whether Halflings have to adhere to the no medeling rule.
The rule is magically enforced. Oberon doesn't need to know about you to enforce it. You don't need to know about Oberon to have it enforced. But -- as we've seen -- loopholes abound. The trickier you are the easier it is to find loopholes. Bloodline -- or blood purity, so to speak -- has nothing to do with it.
My qustion then is how doesthe rule affect Halfling human relations? Because I havent heard anything about New Olimpus breaking the rules by becomeing part of the U.N, or An older Alex being a big wig in the 2198 spin off. What are a Halflings limits?
What is the question exactly?
How does joining the U.N. magically interfere with anything?
I have a few questions for you about the Third Race and language. Since the TV show never depicted non-English languages for technical reasons, and Avalon apparently translates in some way when it sends visitors to the mortal world, I do not assume that what sounds like English is necessarily English.
1. What language(s) do the Children of Oberon speak amongst themselves on Avalon? Do they speak a language (or languages) of their own there, or do they speak only human languages?
2. Do the Third Race have any languages of their own?
3. Did the Third Race ever have any languages of their own?
Thank you once again for answering fan questions!
1. All of the above.
Hey, I've been following Ask Greg on and off since 2001. This is only my second post. Just wanted to say I appreciate you sustaining the fanbase.
1) Were halflings like Merlin or The New Olympians invited to go to Oberon's Gathering? I would think that Oberon's determination in attempting to bring Alex meant that The Gathering would not be limited to "full" fae. But I could be wrong. What's the truth, Greg?
1. Case-by-case. (But in general the New Olympians were not included.) Merlin wasn't there either.
What was Oberon's purpose for The Gathering?
It was planned 1001 years ago... to reunite the Children after their banishment.
Has Macbeth had any contact with or even know if the Third Race exist?
Yes and yes.
The Egyptian term "netjer", which a previous commentor says can be translated as "god" actually means "watcher". There is more to this story...
...and you're hiding it from me?
In the past, some posters here have implied that only iron can kill a member of the Third Race. This has never really been confirmed. Yet, when once asked if there were casualties in the war between Mab and Oberon, you said "yes, any war has casualties." If some of the Children of Mab did kill each other in that war, I find it hard to believe they used iron weapons!
So, is iron the only thing that can kill a member of the Third Race?
Hello Mr. Weisman,
I have read through the FAQ and archives and could not find an answer to why the Third Race is called the Children of Oberon or the Children of Mab. Why are they called these things? Is it to show they follow that leader or is it something more? And what would happen to a member of the Third Race who called themselves a Child of Mab while Oberon ruled? Thank you for any consideration you give this question.
It seems fairly straightforward to me, so I think you may be overthinking it. Oberon's the leader -- and a very paternalistic one at that -- so his "people" are referred to as the Children of Oberon (which is NOT to say that he is their literal parent). Before him, Mab was the leader, and they were referred to as the Children of Mab. It doesn't seem likely after so much time that anyone would still mistakenly refer to the Children of Oberon as the Children of Mab, so if it happened, it would probably be a political statement of some kind, and Oberon would deal with that depending on the situation.
Can Oberon's Children breed with Gargoyles?
About the Third Race: You've said that a Child of Oberon can recover from anything, as long as they aren't killed. When Oberon was very nearly killed with the iron harpoon, he recovered in just a matter of minutes, which was quite remarkable. But he's Oberon, he's much more powerful than most of his vassals.
When Anansi was stabbed with the spear and "bled" of some of his magical energy, he appeared to die but escaped by becoming much smaller. How long did it take Anansi to heal or recover? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? I'm not asking for an exact number, of course.
I'm glad you're not asking for an exact number, because my response is "a while". It took a while for him to recover. I hope that's inexact enough.
In your opinion who do you think is more powerful: the Weird Sisters or Puck? I ask because I've noticed that they're the only ones of Oberon's Children who consistantly fight or aid the Gargoyles and I was curious what would happen if they ever came into conflict.
Also Oberon forbid his Children from harming or interfering with humans, did he forbid his Children from fighting amongst themselves? Again I ask cause I wonder why Grandmother didn't fight Raven herself.
Finally, why does Oberon even care what he or his race do to mankind? It's a little suprising that a being so powerful could have compasion for such 'mere mortals'.
I guess I'd guess that the Sisters are more powerful, since at the very least there are three of them. But of course Puck's a trickster, and really the question seems a bit pointless.
Oberon did not forbid the Children from fighting among themselves. But Grandmother wasn't fighting for herself, but for the island. Plus, there's some question as to whether she could have beaten Raven in a straight-up head to head fight. Especially since fighting is clearly NOT her way.
I'm way more powerful than my dogs and cat, but I have a lot of compassion for them, and certainly wouldn't want anyone to harm them.
I have a question regarding child rearing among the fae or Oberon's Children as they call themselves. Human children are generally raised by their biological parents while Gargoyle children are raised by the whole clan. How do the fae raise their young?
There's a lot of cultural inconsistency there, but generally I'd say parents raise children.
While I was looking in the GargWiki for information about the Olympians, I saw that you wanted to know the Ancient Egyptian name for the Egyptian pantheon.
The word which can be translated as "god" is _netcher_ or _netjer_, feminine _netcheret_ or _netjeret_, plural _netcheru_ or _netjeru_. TCH and TJ are just ways to spell the CH sound at the beginning and end of English "church," without confusing it with the German or Greek CH. As with every Ancient Egyptian word, the vowels were never written down, so the vowels in netjer and netjeru are speculatively added to make N-TJ-R and N-TJ-R-W pronounceable.
Netjeru refers to all the deities, including large numbers of minor deities who are servants to the greater deities, and who are often referred to in English as "demons" or "spirits." Netjeru sometimes also include other beings: deified mortals, the _akhu_ or souls of the dead, and divine beings like Ammut and Apophis that were not worshipped. Netjeru can also include the _bau_, which are "manifestations or emanations" send forth from a deity.
I do not know if netjer was also used to refer to gods of other religions, but I'm guessing it was.
What I have told you comes from Richard Wilkinson's "The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt." In my non-expert opinion this is one of the best books on Egyptian Mythology that I have seen for the non-specialist.
Wow, that's seriously helpful, both the info and the reference book. I'm definitely buying that book! Thanks.
I have a questions about the original Olympians in the Gargoyles universe. I hope you aren't sick of my curiosity about the Third Race, but the links to mythology are my favorite parts of Gargoyles, since I've always loved mythology.
I was looking in the Archives about the New Olympians, and I found two entries that interested me. In 2000, concerning the New Olympians and their ancestors, when asked about those ancestors who were worshipped as gods, you wrote:
"They weren't actually immortal."
Later in 2001, you wrote:
"The ancestors were the "gods and monsters" of legend. Many of whom were known as the Olympian Gods of Ancient Greek and Roman mythology.
Most of them were of the Children."
I'm sure I am misinterpreting your responses, but I find these two seem contradictory. The 2001 response indicates most of them were "of the Children" but the 2000 response seems to me to mean that most of them were not Children of Mab.
1. With regards to the original 12 Olympians, were most of the 12 Olympians Children of Mab, or just some of them? Or were most of the original 12 Olympians hybrids?
Just some of them.
Thank you for taking questions again!
I have been waiting a while to continue this conversation about the Third Race. Honestly I have so many questions that I've been waiting to ask for the longest time, but I have generally held back so I wouldn't flood the queue.
A while ago, I asked you <<"Are Children of Oberon vulnerable to steel, since it contains iron?">>
<<"I think pure iron is what they're MOST vulnerable, but who wants to take chances?">>
I think it makes sense that they're _most_ vulnerable to pure iron (wrought iron). However, it doesn't make sense to me that steel has no effect _at all_, yet this appears to be the case, judging from the ineffective-ness of Hudson's sword in The Gathering, and that spear in Mark of the Panther. Steel is stronger than wrought iron and holds a sharper edge, but chemically there is very little difference between steel and pure iron.
I did some research, and steel (including ancient steel and most modern steel) is 98%-99.5% elemental iron -- almost as pure as wrought iron. Cast iron is actually less pure than steel, it contains less elemental iron. Modern stainless steel is even less pure than cast iron.
It also turns out that all of what is marketed as "wrought iron" today is actually steel.
1. I have a question. Children of Oberon can be seriously harmed by being cut or stabbed with pure iron, but does it harm them just to touch it? Was Puck harmed (even just getting a rash or a minor burn) by having those chains on all night (in the Mirror)? They were touching his skin, but he didn't seem physically uncomfortable, just annoyed at Demona.
I don't think it causes hives, but I suppose it varies from individual to individual.
I reread one of your old postings where you state that fans sometimes call Oberon's Children fey, yet you do not really use this term because you need to do more research on what it means. Fey is one of the ways of saying fairy in french (fairy is a french word) with different ways of it being spelled such as fey, fae, or fairy. You have also stated that Oberon's children were sometimes called Dark Elves yet according to Elves, Wights, and Trolls by Kveldulf Gundarsson, Dark Elves were actually the dead in old Scandinavian religion. We know less about the light elves who were a type of god. However modern mythologists often confuse them with Dwarves (Swart Alfs). Alfs is what the scandinavians called elves before the word was anglecized by the english.
"Swart" means "black". So Swart Alfs would be Dark Elves... so...?
And in any case, I think my point about the fey was that it was NOT my term of choice. It didn't cover ALL that Oberon's Children were.
I've been thinking about the Gathering of the Third Race, and its effect on the various pantheons of the Gargoyles Universe. Once when asked about the afterlife and the Underworlds run by the gods, you wrote:
"My gut reaction, based on Dante as much as anything, is that people go where their souls truly want to go. Since it's voluntary, though not necessarily consciously so, there's no conflict with Oberon's edict."
I find this response interesting, since it allows those religious beliefs to all be true and (fairly) accurate, at the same time.
You've also told us that during the Gathering, the Children of Oberon (with a few exceptions like Puck and Titania) will be mostly confined to Avalon and will have to stay there until the Gathering ends. This raises two questions in my mind.
In various mythologies, the afterlife/underworld is populated by gods who judge and watch over the dead. The Greek myths mention Elysion, Tartaros, and the Kingdom of Hades, and Egyptian mythology mentions the Duat. The Aztec gods have several different afterlife options, such as Mictlan. In your previous response you said that dead mortals can still go to afterlives/underworlds controlled by the Third Race if they give some unconscious assent. But what happened to these afterlife places (or whatever you want to call them) after the Gathering started?
1. Are the Children of Oberon completely forbidden to visit in these underworlds/afterlife places during the Gathering?
2. During the Gathering, are the Children of Oberon completely forbidden to visit Earth or interact with the mortals there?
1. I'm sure Oberon doesn't want his "officers" shirking their responsibilities. Some considerations have probably been made.
2. Largely, yes.
1. I've been wondering about the subject of families for a while.
Humans usually form nuclear families, or extended families, around biological kinship -- biological parents and children, and maybe grandparents, aunts, or uncles. Children generally grow up with their biological siblings, raised by their biological parents, or maybe a grandparent. If adopted, they generally form nuclear families as though they were biological. Many human societies have legal polygamy, while others value monogamy.
Gargoyles usually raise their offspring communally, one entire generation of parents raising a whole rookery generation as a set of siblings. Biological relationships are not important, and each individual has many parents and siblings. Siblings are only those who are the same age. For both species, it appears (except in dysfunctional families) that parents and children tend to bond closely, and individuals bond more or less closely with their siblings. Among gargoyles, mates are usually rookery siblings, they mate for life, and are almost always monogamous.
So far we have not learned anything about Third Race families, and I don't know whether you've thought much yet about how they raise their offspring. But I'm curious to see what you're willing to share about how Third Race parents, offspring, and siblings usually define their relationships to each other, how or whether they emotionally bond, what their (typical) concept of a family is. Does a member of the Third Race only have their two biological parents, or more than two parents, or less than two? Who usually raises them? Do they value monogamy, or is it acceptable/legal for them to have multiple marriages at once (not all partners are marriages)? I'm not looking for individual answers, but just an idea of what is typical or common or average for the Third Race.
2. Short question: Humans kiss and gargoyles stroke each other's head/hair/horns. What is the Third Race equivalent to these behaviors? (I'm guessing that since the Third Race can be humanoid or giant spiders or else have the heads of jackals, etc., that kissing isn't practical.)
1. I'm mostly not going to answer this now, but expect variety.
2. Kissing works often. But there are other options, I'm sure.
Now i noticed and a may be wrong but Titania seemed less effected by iron as did puck then Oberon himself. I was wondering if maybe this was because they are less Allergic to it being his children, and is Titania just less effected in general?
They're not LITERALLY his children. And I'm not sure why you say they were less effected?
Wow, I had no idea Bad Guys was already out. It's been a busy month. But I got a lot of thinking time since I've been on medical leave and I came up with these little gems.
1. OK, in the case of Owen/Puck you've said that Owen is fully human and can't do magic unless he's Puck (as far as I know anyway) and that rule applies to all Faeries. However, Fox is the offspring of Titania as a human and Reynard but she and her son are able to cast spells. I've read a few things about the differences between human and faerie magic but the only times we've seen magic in humans is through an object of some sort i.e. the Grimoire, the Eye of Odin, the Pheonix Gate ect. So what kind of magic do Fox and Alex (and presumely Merlin) use? If human why don't they need an object; if Fairy how?
2. I'm a HUGE fan of Midsummer's Night Dream but there is one thing that has irritaed me even when I was 10 years old. You switched the roles of Titania and Oberon. In the play Oberon was the consort though he was King of the Elves, Titania was the Queen of Fairies. What made you switch their roles?
3. I know you'll hate this question but is Mab plotting the destruction of Titania and Oberon or is she just gonna destroy us all outright?
Thanks for the answers!
1. Mortal sorcery doesn't enter into it. Owen is a mortal construct, able to do no magic except transform into Puck. Fox is half-human/half Child of Oberon. Alex is 3/4 human, 1/4 Child. Merlin is half and half. What isn't clear about this?
2. I've read and seen Midsummer easily 100 times. In what way did I switch their roles? Are you sure you're not allowing your interpretation of the play to influence your interpretation of what we did on the show?
3. I don't hate the question, but I have no intention of answering it at this time.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Tony Dracon steals hi-tech weapon prototypes from Xanatos Enterprises. Elisa is put on the case and confronts Dracon, who later orders Glasses to sell a few of the weapons on the street. Broadway rushes off to see the movie Showdown again and then goes to Elisa's loft for a bite to eat. He accidentally shoots her with her own gun and rushes her to Manhattan General Hospital. He does not return to the castle.
At the behest of Fox, the cybots are reprogrammed by Preston Vogel to sabotage Fortress-2. Goliath and Renard join forces to defeat them and save the ship. In the end, Vogel has a change of heart and assists. Early that morning, Fox confronts Renard, informing her father of her pregnancy. Owen learns from Xanatos that Fox is pregnant and begins making preparations for a possible attack from the Children of Oberon.
I have a few more questions I'm wondering about the Children of Oberon. I'm trying not to ask too many at one time.
1. a. The Children of Oberon are shapeshifters, able to appear any way they want, right? So I'm wondering, why did Odin always have one eye in "Eye of the Storm" (before he got it back) in all forms? The obvious/immediate answer is that in the myths he's one-eyed, so he had to be one-eyed in the show, but what is the reason for that in the Gargoyles Universe? After giving an eye to Mimir, was Odin unable to change shape into a form with two (or more) eyes, or did he just chose not to (that we saw)?
b. In the myths of some cultures (like the Norse) gods can lose body parts, but in some other cultures the myths say gods can't be permanently injured. Is it possible for Children of Oberon to permanently lose body parts (um, until they find them again and reattach them like Odin did), or be injured seriously enough to leave permanent scars? I've gotten the impression they are not flesh and blood -- even when Oberon was stabbed with the iron harpoon, he didn't bleed.
2. a. In the past when asked if the Third Race need food you answered "Yes, depending on their chosen form."
When a Child of Oberon is not in a truly mortal form, does he or she need food? (By "truly mortal form" I mean a mortal flesh-and-blood body like Owen, not just a shape that looks like a human or gargoyle.)
b. When a Child of Oberon is not in a truly mortal form, does he or she need to breathe?
3. When a Child of Oberon takes on a completely mortal body and mates with a mortal of the appropriate species, the offspring is a "halfling." But what happens if two Children of Oberon both take mortal forms of the same species, and then have kids together? What would their offspring be?
And thank you again for answering our questions! It's really great to have this website.
1a. The exchange itself created a mystic restriction.
1b. Rules that cannot be broken can be bent, but they can't be broken. But they can be bent. But not broken. (Get the idea.)
2a. Yes, but I'm not defining what food is for them.
2b. Yes, but I'm not defining what they breathe.
Yay the queue is open! I'm happy you're taking questions again. (and I'm of course excited to get #6, which I'll be ordering asap). I hope you don't mind questions unrelated to reviewing the comic... those Children of Oberon always make me so curious.
1. a. So Ragnarok already occured in the Gargoyles Universe. When did it happen? (If you don't want to give a year or decade, can you please say what century it happened in?)
b. Did any of the gods survive Ragnarok, other than Odin? If some did, who?
2. You've also told us that the war between the Titans and Olympians was a real event in the Gargoyles Universe. What happened to the defeated Titans afterwards? (I don't want to assume it is the same as the myths, or to ask more specifically for fear it would be an idea)
3. When was Oberon born? (If you don't want to give the year or decade, please say what century?)
1a. Yes, it occured, but no I'm not going to hint at a date (even a century) at this time.
1b. Yes, a few others did. But I'm not revealing who at this time. (Though the myths themselves are a good hint.)
2. I'm not answering this at this time.
I hope nothing in my previous questions about the fae bothered you.
These are the other questions I have about the Children of Oberon ... as you can see I'm very curious about them. I hope five questions are not too many. (At least I got the number right this time!)
1. In some cultures, shamans believe that they have a personal connection to an animal totem who acts as a helper or spirit guide. In the "Gargoyles" universe, is this true? (OK, all things are true, but is it correct? :) ) Do any of the Third Race such as Raven and Coyote form personal connections to shamans or other individual humans (besides the one formed in the Coyote Dance)? I understand this isn't necessarily something you want to reveal, I'm just hoping you're in the mood. :)
2. How many people can be avatars of a single Child of Oberon at any one time? Is there a limit?
3. a. Are halflings vulnerable to iron the way that the Third Race are? Fox doesn't seem to be bothered, she never suspected she was a halfling. But if for example, Alex shapeshifted into a non-mortal form, would he be vulnerable to iron?
b. Can a halfling be bound with iron, the way Puck was in The Mirror, or how the Coyote robot captured Coyote?
4. The Children of Oberon cannot use their magic on iron. But the Magus (a human) used Avalon's magic on iron. Can halflings use fae magic to affect iron? (but I don't mean to imply that Avalon's magic is the same as fae magic)
5. a. Does each Child of Oberon have an inherent sex or gender, or is their sex/gender only a shape they take? Personally I think of sex as a biological or physical trait, but gender seems to be more psychological, or even spiritual.
b. Not necessarily the same question ... can Children of Oberon take on shapes of either gender (or no gender, or hermaphroditic, or make up an imaginary gender)? Can they take mortal forms of either sex?
OK, anyway thank you again for answering our questions! It is really great to be able to find out more about the Gargoyles Universe.
3a. Have to wait and see.
3b. Chains are still chains.
4. Again, the term "fae" is NOT from the show. The fans use it so much, that I sometimes slip into it. But it's not accurate to my mind. Which doesn't, of course, answer your question.
5a. The Children are a relatively new species. Gender may be learned on their part (the way language came from human to gargoyle) which doesn't make it less important at this point.
5b. Yes. Remember Loki, MOTHER of Sleipnir.
My favorite part of "Gargoyles" has always been the incorporation of myths and legends -- both the presence of actual gods and characters like King Arthur and Cuchullain, and the hints that gargoyles inspired some mythical creatures, such as griffins, black dogs, and feathered serpents. Greek Mythology was one of my first great loves as a child, and remains one of my favorite things to read about and study, though I've branched out somewhat into the myths of other cultures. And I agree with Chip, I'm very glad you didn't make Anubis evil. Lots of fantasy settings that use mythological characters just assume that all death gods are evil, without really reading any of the stories about them, and that irritates me a great deal.
So naturally, I am very curious about the Children of Oberon, and their connection to mythology around the world. I have a lot of questions about them, and I don't want to bother you by posting a ton all at once, so I'm only posting some of them for now. I hope 6 in one post is not too many.
1. a. Are Children of Oberon vulnerable to steel, since it contains iron? Oberon reacted badly to Elisa's gun which she said was "steel alloy" but I have no idea what bullets themselves are made of, or if Oberon knows what bullets are. And the spear that Anansi was stabbed with looked to me like steel.
b. Can Children of Oberon be harmed at all by non-iron weapons, such as a bronze sword, or fire, or a laser?
2. a. In the past when asked if the Third Race need food you answered "Yes, depending on their chosen form." To clarify, do you mean that they only need food when they take a truly mortal form like Owen, but not when they are in a Third Race form (like Puck)? Or that it depends on what shape they take even when not in a mortal form?
b. Do the Third Race need to breathe? I mean, when they are not in a truly mortal form like Owen. c. If they do breathe, what gas do they use? Oxygen, or carbon dioxide, or something else? I'm guessing I know what the answer is, somebody once asked about blood and oxygen and you said they have no blood. I'm just trying to be sure.
3. You've said that some of the Greek gods were Children of Mab but some may have been halflings similar to the New Olympians. Since Zeus and the other Greek gods were worshiped at least as early as 2000 BC, if any of the Olympians were halflings, could any of them still be alive in 1996? Can halflings actually live thousands of years? (without being enchanted by somebody else like Macbeth and Demona were)
4. Were/are the Titans members of the Third Race?
5. I think you've stated that the Aesir were of the Third Race. What about the Vanir?
Thanks again for answering questions from the fans.
1a. I think pure iron is what they're MOST vulnerable, but who wants to take chances?
1b. Depends on their form, their preparedness, etc.
2a. Uh... yes?
2b. I'm not really in the business of allowing you to be sure. (I'm in a quirky mood today. Excited about the Gathering, I think.)
3. Not revealing this at this time.
5. Many, not all the Aesir were Children. As for the Vanir... not revealing this at this time.
6. Didn't you say you had six questions?
As I mentioned at the '06 Gathering (but you prolly forgot, no big) I am an Egyptology Major and my favorite episode was "Greif". Because A; it portrayed Anubis (Which is his Greek Name BTW, the Egyptians called him Yinepu or Inpu) in a positive light (and as one of the Third Race, cool to tie everything together) B; because it was a well written and powerful episode C; because it explained (Though not in so many words) the blending together of Egyptian Gods (They merge and change roles frequently) and D; because as powerful as Anubis was he could not undo death, even death he caused. Very powerful to me.
Which brings me around to my question, which other gods of Egypt (also called Neter or Netjer just like the Norse gods were called the Aesir) exist in the Gargoyles Universe? Because of the Shapeshifting Nature of the Third Race any number of gods could have fullfilled many roles (as they did in Eygptian Mythology)
Is Thoth in the Gargverse? Osiris? Isis? Set? Horus? Ra? Hathor/Sahkmet? Bes? Sobek? These are just some of my favorites, there are over 10,000 Egyptian gods.
In honesty, I don't expect you to have thought about this as much as I have, but you never know, I might just be surprised (you do that alot)
(OH! PS: if you need an Egyptology Consult for any upcoming issues I'm your guy!)
Thanks, Chip. I might take you up on that someday. Thoth is pretty much a lock. Beyond that, I'd rather not say.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Canmore is crowned High King of Scotland as Malcolm III.
The Banshee informs Puck that the Gathering is at hand.
When they speak of Oberon's Law and/or The Law that Cannot Be Broken, does this refer only to the law of non-interference, or in a more general, "his word is law" sense?
Depends on context.
Are changelings called to the Gathering?
Probably depends on what their status was pre-diaspora, i.e. 1001 years ago.
At Gathering, Part II, when Petros Xanatos shoot and wounded Oberon(deadly, in my opinion) with an iron arrow, why Oberon didn't died? Is he "just" valnerable to iron, or can die by it?
For example, if you cut Oberon's head with an iron sword, would Oberon died?
He can die from prolonged exposure, but assuming the exposure isn't prolonged to the point of death, he can recover by having the exposure "removed". (Think Kryptonite, for lack of a better term.) So the answer to your first question is both.
Having said that, I did feel like we cheated a bit in Gathering II.
And I would think that if you managed to cut off Oberon's head with an iron sword, he would in fact die... assuming he didn't see it coming and removed his own head to dodge the blow.
How does Oberon maintain his rule over his Children? So far we've seen that many of them have abilities that could probably kill Oberon like Anubis's ability to manipulate life and death and Puck's ability to rewrite reality or is Oberon just much more powerful than the combined might of his children?
Than the COMBINED might... no, I doubt it. But do you really think that THAT group could agree on a replacement?
And to address your specific examples, Oberon is clearly more potent than Puck. Puck can't rewrite reality. He can simply send a false vision. SO not the same thing.
And we've seen how rigid Anubis is with his powers.
Could you please list the following events in chronological order:
1)Oberon overthrew Queen Maeve
2)in reference to City of Stone part 4 in the scene where Bodhe says the English rid their land of gargoyles years ago, the point in time in which the English thought they rid themselves of gargoyles
3)Merlin was born
4)Oberon married Titania
6)Last Member of the Lost Race died
7)Goliath, Angela, Bronx, and Elisa meet Nokkar
Thank you for answering this question.
1. Although it's Mab in our continuity, not Maeve.
2 & 6 I'm choosing not to reveal at this time.
How did Anubis die?
1) Why did the producers of the show go with iron as the general weakness for Oberon's Children when many of them like Raven, Odin or Anubis were figures from mythologies that didn't see iron as a sort of "god kryptonite". In fact the Fenris wolf from norse mythology was able to snap his iron chains and had to be finally chained with a magical one and many of the gods and demons of the Far East didn't seem to have a problem with iron.
2)In relation to the first question why was Oberon the king and lord of the third race that included such beings as Odin and possibly Zeus and other godhead when in the traditional stories he was just a minor king of the fairies or elves?
In general I'm just rather curious why you put so many of the qualities found in fairies and elves such as Oberon and the iron weakness onto mythological figures such as Odin, Coyote or Anasi which in the end from my point of view kind of diminishes the gods.
1) When combining so many mythologies, certain choices have to be made. Since we were putting a traditional "fairy" figure like Oberon at the top of our feudal pyramid, using iron made sense. I understand your objection, even sympathize with it, but I also don't regret our decision.
2) Well, a short answer is that we wanted to diminish the gods a bit... or put another way, we wanted to create a unifying system for them all. A feudal system. Oberon and Titania got priority, because in general SHAKESPEARE got priority. Titania, as far as I know, is not a traditional figure but an invention of ol' Will's. I've always freely admitted to being a Shakespeare fanatic, so his characters, including Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, Puck, the Weird Sisters, etc. were always going to have featured roles in this series. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference, and I was the guy in charge. That doesn't make me RIGHT in some transcendent sense, just means that I had the right to create the universe I wanted to play in. So I did.
In the "Gathering", what are the names of that winged horse and the name of that half man/horse next to Coyote??
It's been a long time since I've seen the episode. I don't know if we had names for them.
The other day, I was asked a question about sources for Oberon. I didn't know the answer, but I received this e-mail from site moderator, Todd Jensen:
In "Ask Greg" today, curousity asked you if there were any other sources besides Shakespeare for Oberon as "king of the faries [sic]". You replied, "Not off the top of my head." I hope that I'm not presuming here in e-mailing you, but I have found at least three works beside "A Midsummer Night's Dream" that portray Oberon in that role, both of which are early enough that they count as "primary sources".
One is a late medieval French work about one of Charlemagne's knights, entitled Huon of Bordeaux (written in the 15th century, and translated into English by a certain Lord Berners in 1548 - early enough, in other words, that Shakespeare could have used it as a source for Oberon). In it, Huon befriends Oberon in his adventures, and the latter becomes Huon's guardian, almost a "fairy godfather". (Oberon is portrayed in it as around three feet tall due to a curse placed upon him in his infancy, and as the son of Julius Caesar and Morgan le Fay!) At the end of the story, Oberon even brings Huon to Avalon and formally abdicates in favor of Huon, declaring him ruler over the "faerie-folk"; a bit of trouble develops, however, when King Arthur arrives at the gathering and protests, saying that if any human should be ruling over Avalon, it should be he himself rather than a relative newcomer like Huon. Oberon angrily tells Arthur that he has chosen Huon for his successor, is not going to change his mind, and even threatens to curse Arthur by transforming him into a werewolf if he doesn't accept it. Huon at this point steps in as a peacemaker, to say that he doesn't think that he could rule Avalon on his own and suggests that he and Arthur act as co-rulers. Oberon and Arthur both agree to this, after which Oberon peacefully dies and Arthur and Huon are crowned in his stead.
Another non-Shakespeare "primary source" involving Oberon is Michael Drayton's Nimphidia, which has Oberon ruling over the "fairies" as well - and wedded here to Queen Mab! (According to the research that I've done on fairy mythology, Titania appears to have been Shakespeare's invention as opposed to a pre-existing legendary figure, though Oberon and Puck both predated him.)
A third is Edmund Spenser's The Faerie Queene, which presents Oberon as the former ruler over "Fairyland", now deceased, with his daughter Gloriana - the Faerie Queene of the title - ruling in his stead. (Gloriana is actually an idealized Elizabeth I, meaning that the Oberon of Spenser would be an idealized Henry VIII.) The poem also includes, incidentally, King Arthur, Merlin, and Talos as on-stage characters.
Hey Greg on the portrayal of the children of oberon were you trying to making them as non-human and alien as possible in character or were you just trying to make them more like people who had incredible amounts of power?
I didn't have that kind of agenda, one way or another. I simply wanted to make them viable and compelling as characters.
That you for taking the time to look at this.
I was wondering the following considereing Oberon and the 3rd race:
1. Before the space-spawn invasion, does Oberon know of alien races and go to other worlds or does he not know or not care?
2. Are all of the third race weakened by iron or are some like Anubis and Odin who seem so different from the likes of Puck immune to it?
3. Why is Oberon far more powerful then other memebers of the third race? Is that the only reason he is king?
4. If I understand the weakness to iron correcly, it means any magic shield a fay attmpts to use pure iron would pass through and magic blasts like Oberon demonstrated would be stopped, right? Would these also apply to Odin's lightning bolts or Anubis's ageing attacks?
5. Do you know where it is written(story or other place) that Oberon is king of the faries and the magic's vulnerability to iron? Besides Shakespeare
6. Is Avalon an actual island on Earth Oberon hides with magic or is it in a different reality?
7. What do the third race do on Avalon? Puck seemed to think it would be boring and there does not seem to be alot to do for beings that are so powerful.
1. I'm not aware of him knowing about them at this time.
3. It goes a long way toward explaining things. But it combines with heredity.
4. Rules that won't break, can bend.
5. Not off the top of my head.
6. Somewhat other-dimensional. But it is attuned and part of the Earth.
7. It's home. Home can be boring sometimes, but most of us like to hang there.
Hello yet another time Greg! Sorry to flood you with questions as of late but keep fate, as I'm running out of things to ask you.
1. This one's simple and concerns the Children of Oberon.
Almost everyone uses Children of Oberon and Fae interchangeably. But after going through the archive for said beings, you once mentionned that Fae (or is it Fey? No one seems to agree on the spelling) are only one particular group of Oberon's Children akin to the Norse or African pantheon.
I'm not really knowledgeable in myths and legends, so could you tell me who the Fey are, with example from the show? I assume (perhaps or should I say probably wrongly) that it simply represents another pantheon, maybe the Anglo-Saxon one (is it Anglo-Saxon if I'm refering to England, Scotland, Ireland and other countries nearby) in which case, Puck, Oberon and Titania might be a part of it, being quite ingrained in English litterature.
But then again, what do I know?
2. This one's not a question but a personal comment, so I can get away with it not being on the same subject :) . It just dawned on me that by creating such a complex and (in itself) realistic universe with Gargoyles, you ran the risk of the viewers not "getting" many of the subtleties of the show, its universe and characters.
With your average TV show, things are often very clear. Heroes, while hardly perfect, are almost always morally right, while bad guys, which are not always purely evil persons, are almost always despisable no matter how they try to justify themselves. You rarely see a character that can't basically be classified as "good" or "evil", or to use more appropriate terms, morally "right" or "wrong".
Also, most of the time, what you see of a character on screen is a pretty accurate representation of who that person is and what they do all the time. So if someone is always seen giving money to the poor and never seen doing anything reprehensible, you assume that person is caring and generous. It never dawns on you that the man in question might actually beat up his wife everyday, because it wouldn't "fit" with the image shown to you. Yet it would not be impossible, as people are known to have very selective values sometimes. He might feel bad for those less fortunate while thinking that "disciplining" his wife is the right thing to do for a husband. Like I said, such is rarely the case, and what is shown is often intended to be representative of the whole truth.
And finally, things are often easily explained in most TV shows. The villain did this because of that, the aliens invaded for such reason, etc.
What am I getting at? That a lot of the questions you get at Ask Greg are due to the above. Although the fans recognize and live the show for its maturity and above-average (and that's putting it lightly) complexity, they fail to realize that things in the Gargoyles universe, just like in real life, don't have easy answers.
The seemingly benign Weird Sisters lost a large part of the popular vote when it seemed all their interventions were geared for the sole purpose of revenge. Yet, you said yourself that the Sisters have many aspects, with vengeance and fate being a part of them. We at first ASSUMED they were completely (or close to) benign, and then we changed our perception to one where they are only after revenge. And yet, like you said, things aren't that simple, and we STILL don't know much about who the Sisters really are. The fate part might play a larger role later on, or they could yet reveal another part of their identity. In the end, they are complex characters who cannot be summed up in a few sentence, which is what most people seem to want.
Oberon is another victim of this. I admit that I too, thought he was a big arrogant jerk, whom Titania manipulated all the time to get what she felt was best for everyone. But like you made me realize, he has a lot of quality, the first being that he cared enough about mortals and how his Children dealt with them to force them out in the real world for a millenium in the hope of them gaining some maturity. And in every story we saw with him, he always ended up being generally fair to most. He isn't perfect (and who is?); is not above pettiness and anger for example. But his behaviour, from his POV, is perfectly acceptable, if not admirable. And there is so much about him we don't know and haven't seen to be able to judge his being accurately. For all we know and despite appearances, Titania might not be THAT more mature than him.
The list goes on and on. People (and I'm guilty of that as well) want easy answers where there are only complex explainations. I hated the concept of Anubis on my first viewing of "Grief" because it seemed at first that all death on Earth were and had always been caused by the guy. It just seemed so cheap, yet I accepted it at face value because it was what was shown at the time (and like I said, we tend to not question things seemingly presented as fact). Now, thanks to you, I know better, with what little you let on about death-gods and their connection to death and such. And just like there's no solid rule as to wether the Children can go against Oberon's law. It depends on all sorts of things, like intent, bending the law itself and people's words and so long and so forth.
In short, thanks for Ask Greg, I've gotten a better perspective on the complexity of the Gargoyles universe. It doesn't mean I'm no longer looking for easy answers, but I understand why you might reply that "there are no easy answers" or "it isn't that simple", because in your mind, that's really the case. Thanks again for your patience and dedication!
1. The fans took to using the term Fae (spelled variously) as a replacement term for the admittedly awkward "Children of Oberon". Sometimes in answering questions, I have slipped and used the term as well, but I was never comfortable with it. And I'm even less comfortable in trying to define it as a subset of the Children. I haven't researched the subject enough.
2. Thank you for the kind words.
Hello again Greg.
I just have a few observations about Oberon and his children.
1. I'll admit to being one of the many people who was very disappointed by the way the Sisters acted in the "Avalon" trilogy. I've read all your explainations in the archive, but although it makes sense and I can accept it on an intellectual level... it still doesn't feel right. I've been asking myself why, and I think I've found an answer or sorts...
I think what was really intriguing about the sisters was the whole mystic surrounding them throughout the series up until the "Avalon" three-parters. They always seemed to have some higher goal in mind, like they were an integral part of destiny (you'll probably say they are, but I meant in a more intentional way). Their words of wisdom when talking to Goliath and friends in "City of stone" were especially touching. They appeared almost like moral guardians of some sort.
When we see them again in "Avalon", we find out their primary motive has been revenge all along. Maybe it wasn't the whole reason for their actions, but it certainly felt like that. And thus, their whole involvement in "City of stone" felt like cruel mindgames and very subtle manipulation.
Hum, you know, maybe the thing that makes it hard to accept is the fact the we, the audience, uncounsciously feel like WE were cheated and manipulated. Like Goliath and the gang, we were fooled from the beginning and we have a hard time accepting the truth, thus we prefer to think that the Sisters' characters were simply cheapened.
The human mind works in mysterious ways...
2. Oberon's children were forbidden by his law from interfering in the affairs of mortals. Those who took on a human form were obviously not a problem, since they were limited by their bodies just like every other mortal. I suppose assuming any other mortal form, like Gargoyle or simply animal, would also be okay.
Of course, a great many actually took on more fantastic forms, like Banshee and Anansi.
I've noticed that most of those we saw never really showed the full extent of magical powers that feys posess, although they often exhibited at least SOME kind of magical abilities.
a) Are they limiting (or customizing) their power in relation to their "character" of the moment, like Banshee having a powerful voice, or Odin having control over the elements? Because since they'd be limiting themselves, they wouldn't really be using "fey magic" against mortals and as such, wouldn't go against Oberon's law.
b) This one's technical, so if you don't feel like answering it, no problem.
You often said that the Third race don't have a true, definite form, being shape-shifters. Of course, some DO have a form they obviously prefer and we tend to associate it with their true form but "that assumption is faulty" as you would say.
I've been thinking about their vulnerability to iron, and how assuming a mortal bodies removes that limitation (as well as any magical power except reverting back). So Anastasia can touch iron but can't do any magic. That's simple. Any other mortal form would do the same.
Now, is it possible for a fey to assume a non-existing form, like Anansi as a giant spider, which would have some innate powers unique to this body (so it would have no other powers except the one of that form and the possibility to change back to "pure fey") while being immune to iron, pretty much like a mortal body?
And if you don't know and don't want to think about it, just say so. I'll understand :)
1. Totally agree... and that was my intent. I guess I just didn't count on HOW strongly people would feel along those lines... and how they would then translate that into disappointment with our execution. Or maybe we just sucked.
2a. You're assuming that every one of Oberon's Children have the exact same base power that can then translate into anything they choose. That's not the case. Banshee's appearance may or may not be a glamour. But Banshee is Banshee. Banshee isn't some other Oberon's child glamoured and powered as Banshee.
2b. See above. Appearance may be deceiving, but Anansi is Anansi. He is one of Oberon's Children in that form and is thus vulnerable to iron. Now if he shape-shifted himself into a real spider...
Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.
I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:
Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.
Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)
Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.
Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.
Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.
Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.
please can you tell me a list of all of oberon's children
How long was the Lady of the Lake living in that lake in Manhattan?
I don't know that she was living there.
Could Anubis really have resurrected the Emir's son if he wanted to? Would it have taken a lot of effort?
It is unclear whether he could have. The moral imperative NOT to seemed to have made it impossible.
Are the Weird Sisters older than Oberon? How about Titania, Odin or the Banshee?
I'm not going to tie my hands by revealing this stuff now. They're all pretty darn old.
1) Can any of the fae magically perceive the future (not predict and use magic to change the future) as it will be? e.g. predict the order of lotto numbers 200 consecutive times, not predict and magically set the numbers as such
2) If so do they often exercise such an ability? Why or why not? also, did Mab also perceive her fall?
1. Some may have precognative ability, though I tend to think it would come with some limitations.
2. I doubt Mab saw it coming.
Who is puck? What kind of craeture is he?
He's a member of the so-called "Third Race" a.k.a. "Oberon's Children" a.k.a. "The Children of Oberon" a.k.a. "The Fair Folk" a.k.a. "Dark Elves", etc.
1.Are Thor's sons alive? I mean they were said to survive ragnorak.
2.How about Vidar and Vali?
3.What about Odin's wife? Is she alive?
I'm not going to start rattling off a laundry list of Norse Gods and figures.
I have basic ideas about how Norse mythology fits into the Gargoyles Universe, but I won't pretend I've yet had the opportunity (or need) to go through each and every "character" and figure out where he or she or it is currently hanging.
Do Titania and Oberon's two children in any of the traditional stories about the fay?
It depends what you consider fay-canon, I guess.
Does Oberon's law of non-interference in mortal affairs extend to animals? In a previous response you said Anansi's turning the Panther Queen into a human didn't count because she provoked him or words to that effect, which implies that it does but the children are often depicted with animal servants. Odin had Hugin and Munin, Anansi had that army of spiders, or are these some kind of special cases that are the result of some loop hole?
I'm not sure what I said about the Panther Queen, and you didn't quote me directly. It's also possible (given it' legendary status) that the interaction between her and Anansi pre-dated Oberon's edict.
Having servants is different than slaves. I suppose one could argue the point on pets either way. But my dog seems happy enough, getting food, shelter and affection. Maybe Hugin and Munin feel the same. Maybe the spiders worship Anansi. Maybe Oberon is too arrogant to include animals. Lots o' possibilities here.
Here is a question that's being rolling around in my head for a while now. Considering your 'all things are true' policy have you given any thought to how you would approach the 'life after death' aspects of the mythologies you've introduced? I mean did slain Viking warriors really join Odin in Valhalla or mummified Pharaohs join Anubis beyond the western horizon? How would this work in relation to Oberons non-interference edict? I'm not asking you to give me the Gargoyles version of every afterlife myth in existence or even to set out anything in stone, I just want your perspective on the subject that I've been pondering.
My gut reaction, based on Dante as much as anything, is that people go where their souls truly want to go. Since it's voluntary, though not necessarily consciously so, there's no conflict with Oberon's edict.
I noticed in the Gathering Part One, a Pegasus was among those that were coming to attend, was there ever a plan to place Pegasus or Unicorns into the series?
Well, by your own admission we showed a Pegasus in Gathering One. And I believe we showed a unicorn in M.I.A.
1.Are the preferred forms of Puck and the other children of oberon illusions? The reasoning is that you said that when the children of oberon transform they lose their powers so are their preferred forms where they utlize their power illusions?
2.Was the deathworm an illusion/glamour?
1. No. Transformations, not illusions.
2. No. Ditto.
Does alex or merlin have enough fay blood in them to mate with non-compatible species?
I'm really not sure I understand the question.
If they transform into another species than they can mate. They have enough "fay blood" to theoretically transform, but it also requires extensive training. And more training for them than for the average Child of Oberon.
Where do Oberon and his kind come from? Did the just materlize out of nothing, or did they just develop differently then humans or gargolyes, from magick instead of animals if you follow that line of thinking?
Is oberon in charge because he is the most powerful, linage , the oldest, or respect?
Which is the oldest of the three races?
When refered to as a child of Oberon, does that mean that they are just a memeber of the third race and use it in a metaphor sense? Or are they all related to Oberon in some way or another?
In the animated series, both aliens and magick were introduced. Does Oberon and his kind know of aliens and possilbe vist other worlds, could there possible be other beings similar to Oberon on other planets?
There isn't one question here that hasn't been asked and answered before and is easily accessible in the "Children of Oberon, The" ASK GREG archive. Not one. And yet, here I go again...
1. The Children evolved from creatures of pure magic such as the Will-O-The-Wisp seen in "Pendragon".
2. There is definitely an element of lineage in his leadership role, as he is the son of the previous ruler Mab. But the main reason is power. He managed to depose the powerful Mab. He's the most powerful... as far as we know.
3. As I've said before, I don't know, but I lean toward Gargoyles first, humans second and the Children third.
4. They are not literally Oberon's children and they are not all related to him or even all younger than he is. When Mab was in charge they were all called Mab's children.
5. All things are true. But Oberon's power is tied to the magicks generated by our planet. He'd lose considerable power by traveling offworld.
If Oberon were to be killed, or even removed from rulership of Avalon, would the third race be freed from his Law, or not? (I know this seems like a "duh" question, but I thought I'd ask and be sure)
It depends on who takes over.
Possibly starting a debate...
Galvatron> Umm... "western"-centric because Greg made western deities such as those of the Greeks or the Norse be children of Oberon? Do you think that Athens is somehow located to the *east* of Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Mecca?
I assure you, it's not. :-)
Anyway, the Greeks, Norse, whatever had their deities be finite creatures which began their lives within the universe. There's a difference between that and a supposedly infinite God which *created* the universe. I can imagine the monotheists being upset if they discovered their god was a fay - if The Infinite proved finite, only one of many. But the Norse and the ancient Greeks already believed that there existed many gods. Why be too upset at discovering a couple more they hadn't heard about?
Don't you feel it's alittle bit western centric making the god of the Greeks, Norse and all the other "pagan cultures" Children of Oberon who are no better than the non-corporeal beings of scifi while the God of Judaism, Islam, Christianity is actually the creator of the universe? I mean it's like saying that they're stupid for getting suckered in by the Children while we're smart for actually worshipping the true God.
Well, first off ALL THE GODS you mentioned are "Western Culture" gods. All of them. So it's hardly Western centric -- beyond the fact that we got more western culture into the show period.
Second, I have never confirmed or denied the existance of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic GOD in the series. I have left that to every individual character and viewer's view of the universe. So I've hardly given the Abrahamist religions priority over the old "pagan cultures".
Finally, not to split hairs, wow, you got me. I've made fictional characters out of the gods of myth. Shocking.
Questions regarding three of the Fair Folk
1. After the Wierd Sisters were banished by a simple parlor trick, they rather easily accepted the ARchmage's suggestion for help. Why that as opposed to just using Avalon's magic to destroy the clan?
Why put that much trust in a single human?
Did they even hedge their bets with attempts of their own to remove the clan?
2. When Odin went through his entire deal of getting his eye back, why didn't he, at one point, attempt identifying himself as Odin before threatening a Gargoyle's protectorate? It seems he'd tried everything but the truth before threatening Elisa... and then the truth at the same time, so what really could it have cost him to identify himself before going to threats?
3. While Oberon may have seen himself as being well in the right for wanting to rid Avalon of the mortals, why didn't he think to identify himself as Oberon: Rightful Lord of Avalon? Seems to be pretty much an obvious thing that he may have missed.
Basing this next question on the idea that Avalon wants the humans and Gargoyle clan to remain (or else why bring the world tour group back to Avalon just in time?). Why did Avalon obey Oberon's commands to attack Goliath, Angela, and Gabrial?
1a. Well, I could say, "Why not?" But the not-quite-as-short answer had to do with their own banishment from the island by Oberon. By becoming "servants" to the Archmage, it enabled them to embark on the island at his command. Otherwise, how do they attack the Magus, et al, when they're forbidden to set foot on the island. There's also a longer answer and a very long answer, but I'm not getting into those now.
1b. They didn't.
1c. They have three plans in play and removing the clan is only a part of each.
2. Chalk it up, as he did, to recent inexperience at dealing with mortals.
3. I believe he did.
3a. That's a big assumption. The Island didn't bring the travellers back. To return to Avalon, the travellers use a spell. In any case, what the island wants and needs, doesn't change the fact that the island is soaked in magical energy, which Oberon is a master at utilizing.
In the Gargoyle universe, did Ragnarok already happen? Or is Fenrir still waiting for dinner...
A Ragnarok happenned. Maybe not THE Ragnarok.
What is the true form of the Children of Oberon? Anything close to a Will O Wasps?
Not particularly. I think of them as more solid than that. But I'm not sure even they know what their true forms are.
Did Oberon and his children invent the gods they were worshipped as or did humans invent them?
If I'm getting your drift, the answer, I guess, is both.
Mostly, Oberon & Co. just were who they were, and various humans began to treat or worship them as gods.
Occasionally, I think it's possible that a culture had a god or two that one of the Children posed as.
Why can't I sleep?
I've been up since 7 am yesterday. This just isn't fair.
Getting to the *actual* question...(I've looked through the archives, and haven't seen this one. I apologize if I missed it. And even more so If I've previously asked this question but forgot your response because it was a smart-ass one.)
"All things are true" you say, but I would appreciate it if you would clarify this for me:
In your conception of the gargoyles universe, are all "non-mortal" beings of the Fae race, or do you allow for the existence of anthropomorphic personifications?
(My, you do get a lot of Neil Gaimen inspired questions, don't you?)
[And as Aaron seems to have become lax in his posting of webcomic (and related) links...]
Well, I hope you've been able to get some sleep since November 9, 2001...
I guess, and I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, I'm not sure how you're defining "anthropomorphic personifications"? How is that different from, say, Anansi or The Stone of Destiny?
Anansi is definitely a "Child of Oberon." Not literally his kid, but one of his race. (Note: he's not Fae, which is not a term from the series. I view the Fae as a subset of the Children. Same with the Norse Pantheon and the Egyptian Pantheon, etc.)
Whereas, the Stone of Destiny is either an enchanted object or a Child of Oberon. I've intentionally left that vague for now.
As you've seen, the New Olympians are, strictly speaking, not Children of Oberon, though they are descended from them. Do they count as anthromorphic personifications?
So, I'm not trying to dodge the answer. I just honestly don't know how to define your terms.