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Gargoyles 2158
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Miscellaneous...
My DC Comics editor finally sent me a few copies of that Justice League comic with the Captain Atom/Gargoyles story. I had forgotten just how many Gargoyle in-jokes I put in that story. There's much more there for a Gargoyle fan then for a Captain Atom fan. Though I think the scenes of Cap kissing Bette (and the mention of Las Vegas) would make a couple people (Simon Del Monte, Melissa Page, for example) a bit nostalgic. I think the story turned out pretty well. Anyway, I'm happy. My editor made a couple small changes. He removed the two references to the year the story took place (1991). And he changed the title. It was called something like: "An Exercise in Self-Indulgence". Now it's called "The Flashback of Notre Dame". Both are accurate, but his is much more clever.
Lately, I've been giving away a lot of ASK GREG tidbits for some reason. Not sure why. I'm just in the mood, I guess. But it suddenly occured to me to register this caveat.
There's canon and there's canon.
As far as I'm concerned the only true canon is the 66 episodes of the series running from "Awakening, Part One" through "The Journey". As many of you know, I don't like to consider the other twelve episodes of Goliath Chronicles to be canon, let alone whatever other stories got published by Marvel or Disney Adventures Digest or whatever.
But to be honest, even some of my ASK GREG answers cannot truly be considered canon. They're closer. But I won't be held to them in any absolute sense. Part of the wonder of producing the first two seasons of Gargoyles involved things discovered along the way. I won't etch things in stone (pun intended) just for the sake of making these ramblings and off-the-cuff answers sacrosanct. If I got the chance to produce the show (or one of its spin-offs) again, I'd ABSOLUTELY incorporate much of what's here. But I'd be a fool not to hold everything up to a microscope and decide with consideration what would and wouldn't be best for the new series.
Having said that, I've been giving some particular thought to G2158 recently, studying timelines for example. And I've changed a few things in my head. Nothing major. But certain things have changed that would in turn effect things in TimeDancer and present-day Gargoyles. Maybe even New Olympians and Pendragon. (So far nothing that would alter Bad Guys or Dark Ages.)
The good news is that none of these changes effect our three current contests. (Wouldn't that be an ASK GREG disaster?)
And all this thought has gotten me thinking about how I might handle a couple of thorny problems in any revival of the original series, specifically the time gap between 1996 and whenever the new show hit the air, and/or the existence of those 12 non-canon Chronicle episodes.
And frankly, I think the internet is the answer.
Goliath Chronicles exists. I can't change that. But I think I can ignore it. For example, if I wanted to do my version of the trial of Goliath -- the one where the question before the court is his very sentience -- couldn't I just do it?
New fans wouldn't know about the Chronicles trial and thus wouldn't be upset about it. Old fans could check here and find out why it was being ignored.
That only leaves a small percentage of people, who, for example, see the Chronicles episode on Toon Disney and wonder about it, but don't have the resources or whatever to find a site like this and learn the rationale. Would they be very put off? Is that too selfish an approach for me to take?
Likewise, the time gap. What if in the fist season, I did that Halloween story I've mentioned before. I wouldn't mention what year it was. For a new audience, they'd just assume that the story took place in say, October 2002. No harm done. But I could post here and tell people it took place in 1996. Then, by the end of the first season, I could have the series caught up to 2002, but still have gotten to do the stories that would have depended (continuity-wise) on proximity to the events in Hunter's Moon and The Journey.
What about that?
I'm very interested in all of your opinions on these notions. Please post them here.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Will Alexander by the year 2158 have a family (besides Titania and the possibility of Fox)? Wife, girlfriend, children?
Greg responds...
Not saying. Though obviously, he'll have a HUGE extended family.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Hmm... I should have perhaps placed this question within the same post as the previous one...
Will Samson have a mate and/or children in 2158? Moreover will his attitude towards parentage be human-like (like his mother) or will he follow the older gargoyles ideas on the subject?
Greg responds...
Samson will have a fairly obvious romantic interest. Originally, I definitely wanted him to have kids and a dead mate, but now I'm hemming and hawing. Strangely, I don't want him to be too much like Goliath. And I'm afraid the absent wife and kids might push him to far in that direction.
As for his attitude, I think that inevitably it'll be an amalgam of both views. Biological progeny will matter to him somewhat. But hatchlings being raised communally by the clan will still be very important.
Airwalker writes...
It's my understanding that you pitched both DARK AGES and GARGOYLES 2158 to CBS and that then CBS did away with it's Saturday Morning schedule and staff thus killing off further interest in either shows. But now that CBS has decided to restore animated shows to it's Saturday Morning schedule, do you think it might be possible to re-pitch those two shows to them?
Greg responds...
I never pitched G2158 to CBS, because everyone I knew there was booted before I got the chance.
And none of them are back, so the idea that the executives (Judy Price, specifically) who asked to see G2158 would now be interested again, since policy has changed somewhat (though not exactly as you have described it above) doesn't follow. Judy is still gone. Disney still owns Gargoyles and now they own ABC. So I don't see Gargoyles appearing on another network anytime soon.
Airwalker writes...
I've heard that when you pitched DARK AGES to CBS they suggested instead pitching a future based series instead. Was that the first time you started to think about GARGOYLES 2158 or did you previously have a developed idea of what the Gargoyles future would be like?
Greg responds...
I can't deny that CBS' suggestion was the first time I really DEDICATED thought to a specific future. (It was after that conversation, that I nailed down 2158 as the year of the setting for example.) But some of the material that I had planned for the show, had already been racing around in my head. The Nokkar stuff in particular. The Demona stuff. The children of Angela and Broadway.
But it was more amorphous, timeline-wise.
Wing writes...
Hey Greg,
Eyes hurt. Reading old Archive. Ow.
Should've wrote What were your plans on prev. Questions. So I will.
What were <some of> your plans for the Clones?
Greg responds...
I'm sorry, but as I've said before, this is not the forum or format for me to give novel-length responses to impossibly huge questions. Suffice to say, I had lots of plans for them extending to 2158 and beyond...
lisa writes...
1.what were your future plans for demona?
2.what were your future plans for macbeth?
Greg responds...
This is not a forum for novel-length responses. You're question is too broad.
I will say that both characters would have been involved in both the main GARGOYLES series and in GARGOYLES 2158.
Airwalker writes...
How long did Timedancer spend in 2158 and in Feudal Japan?
Greg responds...
I haven't worked out all the math. But those were his two longest stops. Quite some time in each. Years as least.
Robin Wynn writes...
hi..um..i think i missed something but what do you mean as per the new rules....I'm sure I'm just missing it, but I looked around and couldn't find any...and, oh well, here's the rest of my questions on a seperate post
1. In the Future Tense spinoff, who, of the characters we already know, would have been on the bad-guys side?
2. Who'dve been on the good guys side?
Greg responds...
New Rules: Questions on separate topics, must be posted separately.
1. That's very complicated. Because things change over a couple centuries.
2. Demona, Brooklyn, Owen, Samson, Nokkar among others.
Alaxk writes...
Greetings, guess I will try again on a few questions that got axed by retroactive rules changes :>
What was the main plot line in Future Tense going to be?
Greg responds...
You mean Gargoyles 2158?
(sorry, I can't resist toruturing people on occasion.)
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
Here's a question on the title of Gargoyles 2158 (formerly Future Tense). Are you sure this title will work. Say the series ran for five seasons, is it going to be 2158 for five years?
Greg responds...
Nope. If I had my way, it would be Gargoyles 2163 after five years. Make sense?
Airwalker writes...
Will any of the villians that we have appeared in the series so far (Thailog, Coldsteel, etc) appear in GARGOYLES 2158?
Greg responds...
Yes. But I'm not saying who...
Airwalker writes...
In 2158 how would New York City have been portrayed? Would it have become some sort of futuristic metropolis or would it have been shown to be largely unchanged from the way it is in the late 20th - early 21st century?
Greg responds...
Both. And that's not a joke answer.
Airwalker writes...
1. Would the Canmore as Hunter's dynasty still exist in some form in 2158?
2. Would we have seen Canmore/Castaway descendents in G2158?
Greg responds...
1 & 2. The Canmores would be gone. But the Monmouths and the Castaways would survive -- in opposition.
The Quarrymen would still exist.
Airwalker writes...
In TIMEDANCER, would there have been a major recurring antagonist for Brooklyn and family?
Greg responds...
Ultimately. Inevitably. And of course, that doesn't necessarily count the huge chunk of time spent in the years 2158 and following....
Sep_Xanatos writes...
Hey there Greg. Ok im a first timer to asking questions on this page, but please:
1) can you tell me what this whole Gargoyles 2158 is about? This is the first time I heard of this.
2) I know you probubly get this question ALOT but I really need to know, is the show going to come back on the air?
2a) If not, is there goign to be another movie?
Thank you for your time.
Greg responds...
1. You should really check the archives. But briefly, GARGOYLES 2158 was a spin-off series that Gary Sperling and I developed for Disney (at least in part at the suggestion of CBS). It was set (surprise, surprise) in the year 2158 and starred Samson, Goliath's grandson.
2. Sorry. Questions on separate topics, must be posted separately.
Airwalker writes...
In the archive when asked if the Fey are still on Avalon with Oberon in 2158, you answered "Largely." Besides Owen/Puck, how many other Fey do you figure would be off of Avalon in that time? One? Five? Too many to count?
Greg responds...
Too many to count on one hand. But not a lot.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
How does Demona get along with Samson and the rest of the cast in Gargoyles 2158?
Greg responds...
Delicately.
OnyxStar writes...
Okay, this is turning into lots of little posts instead of one big one. But anyway, here are the next few:
1. Would Goliath and Elisa's "relationship" ever have become public knowledge? I mean, would someone have figured it out sooner or later and gone to the media with it?
2. If so, how will history remember Elisa Maza, "gargoyle-lover"?
3. Will others have followed in her example by, say, 2158? (not necessarily with a main character or anything, just in general)
4. What does 'protected minority' mean?
Thanks again!
Greg responds...
1. Maybe. Probably. But WAY down the line if at all.
2. Looking back from when?
3. Here and there, but not too often. We want to keep some things unique.
4. It will be a legal term both well-meaning and condescending, both necessary and a stumbling block. Otherwise, I'd say it's fairly self-explanatory.
Lawrence Stone writes...
Hello Greg here are some more quistions
1) Would Demona and her new mate in the future ever have a child or childern together?
2) If Gargoyles was not canceled or it was brought back in the futuer would there be crossovers between Gargoyles and Pendragon?
3) By the time 2058 when all of Demonas grandchildren are still young will she be complety reformed?
4) How long do female gargoyles carry their eggs?
5) Could a female Gargoyle ever have twins?
6) Could a female gargoyle ever have a miscarriage while they were pregnent for their egg. Or if their egg dose not hatch is that considered a miscarrige?
Greg responds...
1. Can't reveal that.
2. This really is a separate topic, but it's short, so the answer is yes.
3. Completely?
4 - 6. Sorry, by the new rules, questions on separate topics must be submitted on separate posts. I invite you to submit these questions again. (These three can all be in one post.
Kevin writes...
1.As of today, how good are our chances of getting Gargoyles back on the air with new episodes???
2.Do we stand a better chance of getting the regular Gargoyles show or one of your projected spinoffs? (like Timedancer, New Olympians, Dark Ages, Pendragon)
3. Which would you prefer to see made? (spinoff or regular Gargoyles)
Greg responds...
1. Same as they've always been.
Long term - Good to Very Good.
Short term - Not very good at all.
2. No way of knowing, though I'd guess that 2158 has a slightly better chance of going than any of the other spin-offs, with about an equal chance against a modern day setting.
3. Either, both, all.
Airwalker writes...
How many upgrades do you see Cyoti ultimately going through? You once said that the various version numbers (Cyoti 2.0, Cyoti 3.0, Cyoti 4.0, etc) were a homage to Marvel Comic's Ultron. But Ultron stopped numbering himself at #13. Do you think Cyoti would exceed that or not?
Greg responds...
You're just way ahead of me. I had the robot plotted through 6.0. I hadn't plotted him out farther, though I probably would have brought him back in some form in G2158. I hadn't thought about what I would name him at that point. Maybe COYOTE-2158?
By the way, though I wish I had used the Bible's spelling, the fact is I didn't, so it's COYOTE, not CY.O.T.I.
Phoenix writes...
I've been hearing about this Gargoyles 2158 thing, what is it?
Greg responds...
Arrgghh...
Now, I'm nervous....
I answered this last time I visited ASK GREG. Man, I hope we don't have another technical problem. Hopefully, human error was involved...
Anyway, Phoenix, after we finished the writing on the second season of Gargoyles, Gary Sperling and I began working on some potential spin-off shows for the series.
One of these was set in the future, the year 2158 to be specific. Originally, we called it "GARGOYLES: FUTURE TENSE". But I later changed the name to "GARGOYLES 2158".
The series featured Goliath's grandson SAMSON, a largely-reformed DEMONA and a Time-Dancing BROOKLYN, among others.
CBS was interested in airing it, but before we could put a pitch together, the whole CBS Saturday Morning dept. was fired. And shortly thereafter Disney bought ABC, rendering any deal with CBS all but impossible. At about the same time there was a major regime change at Disney TV Animation as well. The new regime wasn't too interested in Gargoyles at all, at least not in making it a priority. ABC asked for a new version of the show. But no one wanted 2158.
Oh, well.
Robin Wynn writes...
Hi Mr. Wiesman,
the first of my questions was asked by another person,but because the post it was in was so long you didn't answer it. I wanted to know the answer so i thought I'd post it again.
ok, here they go:
1)Is there faster-than-light travel in the Gargoyles universe? faster-than-light communications? If yes, why is Nokkar so isolated and uninformed about outside happenings?
2) ok, originally someone asked you what made Anubis connected to death. Your answer was "Fay are tied to the pure magic of Earth. Individual fay have different 'connections', just as individual humans have different talents, etc. Anubis and other "death gods" come by it naturally". My question is this:
a) Does Alex have any special connection? any particular magical talent that he comes by naturally?
b)if so, what is it?
well, thanks in advance for your time.
Greg responds...
1. Actually, I did answer this in the sense that I rejected the form of the question. It's a two-part question that assumes a connection that doesn't exist.
And per our new rules, you'll have to resubmit your other questions (as they are on unrelated topics) as separate posts.
Airwalker writes...
Upon Brooklyn's arrival in 2158, what would Samson's reaction to him be, considering that since Brooklyn is Goliath's second in command and Goliath is dead, then technically shouldn't that make Brooklyn leader?
Greg responds...
How do you figure that? Even "technically"? It's 2158. The leader of the Manhattan Clan is alive and so is his or her second in command. (By the way, when did I say that Samson was the leader of the Manhattan Clan in 2158?)
You're looking for a conflict that doesn't exist.
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